tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post1213926688392508191..comments2023-11-02T03:10:39.674-07:00Comments on GeeeeeZ!: Should we pay children when they excel?Zhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-81743107599297604932008-12-18T16:13:00.000-08:002008-12-18T16:13:00.000-08:00I much prefer paying kids for good grades than seg...I much prefer paying kids for good grades than segregating them. <BR/><BR/>Arne is a bit of a wacko in any case.Freedomnowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09498640235994153216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-84231935408188990052008-12-18T08:25:00.000-08:002008-12-18T08:25:00.000-08:00MK. ..I so understand your point.At the preschool ...MK. ..I so understand your point.<BR/>At the preschool where I teach my music/Wee Americans class, the teachers grab the crying nasty ones and hug and cajole. I tell them "Please, he just got lots of attention for having been BAD!"<BR/><BR/>So, we're putting them on a chair and pulling them away from my group if they're grotty again. THEN, I encourage them, once everybody's calm, to lower themselves to the child's eyesight and ask what's wrong and can they help...to connect and see what was bothering them. They're only THREE and four, for heaven's sake. But, the truth is we must not ignore those who are quiet and good and cater to the nasties. You're right.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-90768040851724689792008-12-18T07:31:00.000-08:002008-12-18T07:31:00.000-08:00Yeah, funny about that, Farmer. You have to fully ...Yeah, funny about that, Farmer. You have to fully understand the rules to effectively break them.Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-57025786871888217262008-12-18T03:50:00.000-08:002008-12-18T03:50:00.000-08:00schools start paying kids for good grades and it i...schools start paying kids for good grades and it is going to put the grandmas of the world out of buisness......Pat Jenkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18142174423986806144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-10357699229265842322008-12-18T01:39:00.000-08:002008-12-18T01:39:00.000-08:00Around these parts, the bad kids and losers are th...Around these parts, the bad kids and losers are the ones that get all the attention. The authorities take em' to movies and all sorts of things trying to cajole them into line. Moral of the story, if you want free stuff and attention, become a useless POS.<BR/><BR/>Work hard, keep your nose clean and you'll end up funding the rest of the parasites. That's socialism in reality for you. So i guess they might as well pay the ones that excel, everyone else is getting paid in one way or another.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-3898804165312884362008-12-17T19:14:00.000-08:002008-12-17T19:14:00.000-08:00Oh, MAN, FJ... a 'gay friendly' school...ya, I'd h...Oh, MAN, FJ... a 'gay friendly' school...ya, I'd heard he was into transgender school stuff, too. <BR/><BR/>Funny, I'm quite sure no kid I knew at 7 yrs old even knew about sex let alone that he was the wrong one.. Today, there's a school with a special bathroom for confused 7 yr olds. oy.<BR/><BR/>WHAT THE..............??Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-30709387570088717062008-12-17T17:45:00.000-08:002008-12-17T17:45:00.000-08:00Icing on Arne Duncan's cake...It's hardly a secret...Icing on Arne Duncan's cake...<BR/><BR/><I>It's hardly a secret that Chicago public schools chief executive Arne Duncan was the architect behind a failed plan to open a "gay-friendly" high school in the Windy City. But for some reason Washington Post staffer Maria Glod decided to keep that skeleton in the closet, leaving the fact out completely from her page A3 December 17 story, "Education Pick Is Called 'Down-to-Earth' Leader."<BR/><BR/>Glod set out in her 22-paragraph article to portray Duncan as an education reformed well-respected by both Democrats and Republicans and even garnering begrudging respect and even some allies among teachers unions and school bureaucrats who were at first wary of him.<BR/><BR/>The controvery over the proposed Social Justice Solidarity High School -- which was scrapped in a November 18 school board vote -- was completely left unmentioned although as Brad Haynes of the Wall Street Journal's Washington Wire blog reported yesterday:<BR/><BR/>Duncan’s openness to new ideas caused a stir in Chicago just last month when he proposed a high school designed for gay students. Aimed at keeping students from being bullied and ostracized, Duncan pitched the idea of an explicitly gay-friendly school, where half of the students were expected to identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.<BR/><BR/>The proposal met with misgivings from Chicago Mayor Richard Daley – traditionally an advocate for gay and lesbian issues – as well as ministers, gay activists and social conservatives opposed to segregating gay students.<BR/><BR/>As the school board’s Nov. 18 vote approached, designers of the Social Justice Solidarity High School tried to broaden its mission, pitching the campus as a refuge for bullied youths in general and removing references to sexual orientation in the proposal. But they withdrew their proposal at the last minute, pledging to return with another version of the plan in time for an opening in the fall of 2010.</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-64503395134917677202008-12-17T16:20:00.000-08:002008-12-17T16:20:00.000-08:00The master is not confined by rules.That depends u...<I>The master is not confined by rules.</I><BR/><BR/>That depends upon who wrote them, another "master" or <I>The</I> Master.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-84398683081348627622008-12-17T16:17:00.000-08:002008-12-17T16:17:00.000-08:00Remember ducky, some arts contain more "art" and l...Remember ducky, some <I>arts</I> contain more "art" and less science and "mensuration" than others.<BR/><BR/>Film isn't exactly <I>rocket science</I>.<BR/><BR/>You're not from the "one army is the same as any other" school, are you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-12772635056209930282008-12-17T14:05:00.001-08:002008-12-17T14:05:00.001-08:00SOCRATES: I mean to say, that if arithmetic, mensu...SOCRATES: I mean to say, that if arithmetic, mensuration, and weighing be taken away from any art, that which remains will not be much.<BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: Not much, certainly.<BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: The rest will be only conjecture, and the better use of the senses which is given by experience and practice, in addition to a certain power of guessing, which is commonly called art, and is perfected by attention and pains. <BR/><BR/>---------------------------<BR/><BR/> I wish Jean-Luc had been around to talk to this guy.<BR/><BR/>Socrates: But all sense of measurement demands that close-ups never be taken with a wide angle lens.<BR/><BR/>Jean-Luc Godard: Yeah, that's what they say, gramps now beat it. Hey, Belmondo lets try that close up with a fish eye this time.<BR/><BR/>Socrates: But that defies all experience and practice. It is a misuse of your tools.<BR/><BR/>Jean-Luc Godard: Hey, gramps says I can't do a tracking shot with a hand held. Something about tradition. Let's try a few. <BR/><BR/><BR/> The master is not confined by rules.Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-52796721129043307862008-12-17T14:05:00.000-08:002008-12-17T14:05:00.000-08:00We enjoyed it kw.We enjoyed it kw.elmers brotherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03382038085149828957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-45810570379717625802008-12-17T13:43:00.000-08:002008-12-17T13:43:00.000-08:00I'm against the school system's shelling out rewar...I'm against the school system's shelling out reward money to students. The same goes for the teachers doing so.<BR/><BR/>Parents can, of course, design any reward system they like. <BR/><BR/>But in my experience, monetary rewards for grades are counterproductive.<BR/><BR/>I got good grades and received no rewards -- except for end-of-the-year scholarship awards, which were put into my college fund. Furthermore, students should do their best; not all will receive A's.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-2444418971156249492008-12-17T08:21:00.000-08:002008-12-17T08:21:00.000-08:00elmers brother - we are doing astronomy only this ...elmers brother - we are doing astronomy only this yr for science. we love it (3rd grade)<BR/><BR/>kwKrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18436490783036974851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-16209778262372319982008-12-17T07:55:00.000-08:002008-12-17T07:55:00.000-08:00I've encouraged my homeschooled children to pursue...I've encouraged my homeschooled children to pursue vocational school followed by college. The vocation if wisely chosen can provide the means of support while attending college.<BR/><BR/>But each child is different...my youngest daughter just finished vocational school and wants to take up photography in college.<BR/><BR/>My son (15) is taking the college route with 2 college math courses under his belt.<BR/><BR/>Train up a child in the way he should go and he will not depart from it.<BR/><BR/>The Bible says to train the child according to their bent...their interests.<BR/><BR/>We've also done unschooling....an example..when we moved to the rural area we live in now you could see many more stars then our previous citified home.<BR/><BR/>It sparked an interest in the stars...we studied the constellations, bought a telescope and some computer software to study the stars.<BR/><BR/>It's an effort to find what the child's bent in order that they might find a vocation. Not merely a job.elmers brotherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03382038085149828957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-36095415449778365782008-12-17T06:28:00.000-08:002008-12-17T06:28:00.000-08:00You're dead ON, Mustang. The main problem with Am...You're dead ON, Mustang. The main problem with American High School's are their one-size fits-all "college" track programs. I sent my two youngest to a "School for the Arts" and it was the opportunity for them to engage in and practice their "art" (and it could have just as well been a vocational art) that made their days "rewarding" and learning a "necessary" compoenent of it.<BR/><BR/>Plato, "Philebus"<BR/><BR/><I>SOCRATES: Knowledge has two parts,—the one productive, and the other educational? <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: True. <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: And in the productive or handicraft arts, is not one part more akin to knowledge, and the other less; and may not the one part be regarded as the pure, and the other as the impure? <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: Certainly. <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: Let us separate the superior or dominant elements in each of them. <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: What are they, and how do you separate them? <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: I mean to say, that if arithmetic, mensuration, and weighing be taken away from any art, that which remains will not be much. <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: Not much, certainly. <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: The rest will be only conjecture, and the better use of the senses which is given by experience and practice, in addition to a certain power of guessing, which is commonly called art, and is perfected by attention and pains. <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: Nothing more, assuredly. <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: Music, for instance, is full of this empiricism; for sounds are harmonized, not by measure, but by skilful conjecture; the music of the flute is always trying to guess the pitch of each vibrating note, and is therefore mixed up with much that is doubtful and has little which is certain. <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: Most true. <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: And the same will be found to hold good of medicine and husbandry and piloting and generalship. <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: Very true. <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: The art of the builder, on the other hand, which uses a number of measures and instruments, attains by their help to a greater degree of accuracy than the other arts. <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: How is that? <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: In ship-building and house-building, and in other branches of the art of carpentering, the builder has his rule, lathe, compass, line, and a most ingenious machine for straightening wood. <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: Very true, Socrates. <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: Then now let us divide the arts of which we were speaking into two kinds,—the arts which, like music, are less exact in their results, and those which, like carpentering, are more exact. <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: Let us make that division. <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: Of the latter class, the most exact of all are those which we just now spoke of as primary. <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: I see that you mean arithmetic, and the kindred arts of weighing and measuring. <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: Certainly, Protarchus; but are not these also distinguishable into two kinds? <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: What are the two kinds? <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: In the first place, arithmetic is of two kinds, one of which is popular, and the other philosophical. <BR/><BR/>PROTARCHUS: How would you distinguish them? <BR/><BR/>SOCRATES: There is a wide difference between them, Protarchus; some arithmeticians reckon unequal units; as for example, two armies, two oxen, two very large things or two very small things. The party who are opposed to them insist that every unit in ten thousand must be the same as every other unit. </I><BR/><BR/>For to master one's "art", one must become "educated".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-48656664085714347722008-12-17T04:50:00.000-08:002008-12-17T04:50:00.000-08:00BOY! "Left out and dejected" is the last thing I'...BOY! "Left out and dejected" is the last thing I'd care about.<BR/><BR/>Steve...DO we have competition or is it benign neglect? We have SO SO many high school kids graduating who can only read 5th grade stuff. The teachers graduate them but the kids aren't really learning.<BR/><BR/>SOME schools have great competition; some kids are encouraged to do well, but from what I see, most kids just want to get OUT, not LEARN...it's not cool to learn. TV shows, etc., have made kids feel like geeks if they study.<BR/><BR/>I'm generalizing, but..Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-41529305396322465222008-12-17T04:27:00.000-08:002008-12-17T04:27:00.000-08:00Shoprat: But paying good students would make the l...Shoprat: <I>But paying good students would make the less capable feel left out when rewards are passed out.</I><BR/><BR/>But shoprat, your sarcasm rings up the truth, and yeah, I agree that I too am surprised a liberal would come up with that idea too, but in terms of your above quote, it's kind of hypocritical on their behalf to invent this insane idea.<BR/><BR/>I feel it's wrong to pay them money. We have enough competition and stress in school nowadays anyway, and no matter how much you toss money rewards at kids who excel in school, someone will always feel left out and dejected.Steve Harkonnenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09497761866380334481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-70193872883536436432008-12-17T03:29:00.000-08:002008-12-17T03:29:00.000-08:00Chicago, Chicago that toddling townChicago, Chicag...Chicago, Chicago that toddling town<BR/>Chicago, Chicago I will show you around - I love it<BR/>Bet your bottom dollar you lose the blues in Chicago, Chicago<BR/>The town that Billy Sunday couldn't shut down<BR/><BR/>On State Street, that great street, I just want to say<BR/>They do things they don't do on Broadway<BR/>They have the time, the time of their life<BR/>I saw a man who danced with his wife<BR/>In Chicago, Chicago my home town<BR/><BR/>Chicago, Chicago that toddlin' town<BR/>Chicago, Chicago I'll show you around - I love it<BR/>Bet your bottom dollar you lose your shoes in Chicago, Chicago<BR/>The town that Billy Sunday could not shut down<BR/><BR/>On State Street, that great street, I just want to say<BR/>They do things that they never do on Broadway -- say<BR/>They have the time, the time of their life<BR/>I saw a man who ran for his life<BR/>As Mafia gunmen's bullets shot him down.<BR/><BR/>What a town!<BR/><BR/>~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-6008965844457260162008-12-17T01:24:00.000-08:002008-12-17T01:24:00.000-08:00So now, the idea is to usurp parents authority onc...So now, the idea is to usurp parents authority once again? This is the latest step in stripping parents of their responsibilty. <BR/><BR/>It's a wonder kids look to their parents for anything anymore. If they want to reward their children for good grades it's up to them, not the school.<BR/><BR/>FJ's right. A's and B's would be handed out like candy, making those grades meaningless, and taxpayers would be paying for it.<BR/><BR/>I have an idea, why not eliminate tenure, treat teaching like any other job, and create an incentive for the teachers to excel at their job. How about paying the good teachers more, and getting rid of the incompetent ones.<BR/><BR/>And, for heaven's sake get rid of this notion that they can 'give' a child self esteem and confidence. <BR/><BR/>This 'feel good' approach is not teaching. It requires lying and manipulation. <BR/><BR/>My grandson, at the ripe old age of 5 years old, figured out the game his first month in Kindergarten. He brought home a paper with a sticker placed on it by the teacher that said "terrific work". When I congratulated him he said, "it doesn't mean anything, everyone got one"! <BR/>Out of the mouths of babes, huh?<BR/><BR/>PrisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-61325477583748315952008-12-16T20:45:00.000-08:002008-12-16T20:45:00.000-08:00Wow. Chicago Public Schools must be doing pretty w...Wow. Chicago Public Schools must be doing pretty well for Obama to name Duncan Education Secretary. Oh wait...they are horrible. Remember <A HREF="http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2008/09/01/news/doc48bc9a84525d5496084690.txt" REL="nofollow">this</A> from September?<BR/> <BR/>Also, it's insulting that <I>students</I> are being paid money when they succeed in the classroom because who takes the heat when students do not succeed? <B>Teachers</B>Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06536515677357828710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-58956465920604664232008-12-16T20:40:00.000-08:002008-12-16T20:40:00.000-08:00Well, I'll tell you what I did for my children: I ...Well, I'll tell you what I did for my children: I paid $2 for an 'A' and $1 for a 'B'. My kids got nothing for a 'C' because, as I told them: a C is 'Average' so obviously pretty much ANYBODY can get one of those. But you know what else I did? I CHARGED THEM $1 for a 'D' and $2 for an 'F'. <BR/><BR/>Guess what? They are all college graduates and 2 are US Military Officers. I am very proud to admit that I still owe them money =)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07035623239706823608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-54468212342562228322008-12-16T20:31:00.000-08:002008-12-16T20:31:00.000-08:00This idea is the kind of drivel that led American ...This idea is the kind of drivel that led American education to its present low state; I could not be more opposed to this proposal. If we truly wanted to motivate students to learn, we would begin by testing them for interests and aptitudes, and then tailor an educational program that best suitd their interests and needs. We are not doing this, and I have seen no evidence that educationalists are even considering what I think is one of the essential elements of understanding human behavior. We have developed a “one size fits all” program that ignores the needs of 70% of all students. We have made horrendously erroneous assumptions that “everyone wants to go to college,” or even that everyone should want to go to college. I don’t find much “in Europe” that I agree with, but education is one area where I do agree with both European and Asian ideologies.<BR/><BR/>Beyond that, paying students to get good grades provides positive reinforcement to negative behavior. The reward of a good education (and I don’t simply mean to imply the academic track) is its long- term benefit, rather than a short-term bribe. People who achieve advanced degrees earn more money over their lifetime than those with a high school diploma. What we should reinforce to our students is that “education” never ends . . . it is an on-going process, even among automotive mechanics, who if they are to remain competitive, must periodically return to school to learn about the newest technologies. It is no wonder we are a nation of debtors; that we prefer immediate gratification to long-term savings and investment as the only pathway to wealth. The idea is typical liberalist balderdash.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-18103608000644227832008-12-16T20:22:00.000-08:002008-12-16T20:22:00.000-08:00In a word, NO. This came up recently in my house. ...In a word, NO. <BR/><BR/>This came up recently in my house. My oldest son's friend was offered a "sizeable" cash incentitive by his parents if he made Valedictorian. So we talked about it in our house. For the record, they have a couple of years to go and my son is actually in the running. My middle son piped in and said if we paid him, he would get good grades. <BR/><BR/>I told him in absolutely clear language that he <B>would</B> get good grades and we would not be paying him. <BR/><BR/>I want them to earn them for themselves, not because they get a reward. There is not a cash reward for everything in life. Do you get paid cash for being a good father and husband? Or for being an honorable person? <BR/><BR/>I want my kids to learn that success is it's own reward.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02467510776931664234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-36475060814541879332008-12-16T20:13:00.000-08:002008-12-16T20:13:00.000-08:00It's a horrible idea. If my district did it, I'd e...It's a horrible idea. <BR/>If my district did it, I'd encourage my kids to donate it to charity. <BR/><BR/>It stinks something awful.<BR/>I think it infringes on the parent's rights.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-68317589505431370942008-12-16T20:03:00.000-08:002008-12-16T20:03:00.000-08:00So would a high-school student with a manual labor...So would a high-school student with a manual labor job work an extra four hours if it caused his grades to slip from an A to a C? Introduction to Freakonomics described a case where attempt to add a monetary incentive for behavior actually decreased incentive because the monetary incentive replaced the incentive based on sense of duty and obligation.<BR/><BR/>Here's a modest proposal: Have the students' pay checks come out of teachers' salaries as a measure to curb grade inflation.<BR/><BR/>--Tio BowserAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com