tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post5508002637836347893..comments2023-11-02T03:10:39.674-07:00Comments on GeeeeeZ!: Muslim Holidays in NYC Schools?Zhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-92084844533616568162010-07-17T13:52:20.647-07:002010-07-17T13:52:20.647-07:00I think when Christians want to obey the Word of G...I think when Christians want to obey the Word of God and they're stuck living in a society which doesn't feel that way, and even speaking for them (so to say) by codifying things they find against the Word, there is a tendency to push back and say "We've had enough"<br /><br />In the O.T., God sent armies, as I say over and over again here....to fight.. So, did he NEED them to win His battles or is he testing them to see if they'll do His will?<br /><br />What's happening NOW?<br />His will "WILL BE DONE..." no matter what.<br />To see an American Christian body not fighting somewhat for upholding what we can see from Scripture is HIS WILL is sad...to see them fight elicits screams of CHURCH AND STATE! even from Christians.<br /><br />This is a very tough one.....probably been in the cards since God knew each hair on ALL our heads.<br /><br />So, while we're trying to pass the 'test'.....we're bombarded with belittlement, maligning, and ugliness toward our faith. Also prophesied.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-53985535274283325892010-07-17T11:27:41.123-07:002010-07-17T11:27:41.123-07:00I'm just saying I have to get off the conserva...<i>I'm just saying I have to get off the conservative train when it starts heading towards "government should do X because 'God's will' is Y."</i><br /><br />I gotcha. I think we agree on that point. <br /><br /> Although, those within the realm of civil govt are accountable to God for the way they "rule". And, in our society, "we the people" have historically had a hand in the way we are governed. <br /><br />Ultimately, all men are called to repent of prideful resistance to being governed by God. I don't see any harm in making that known even at the federal level.<br /><br /><br /><br /><i>I'm a libertarian and a Christian, and I'm pretty sure God's got the objective of His will covered by Himself. He created the universe and everything in it. Legislation here or there isn't going to promote or subvert Him or His will, and it's rather hubristic to assume so.</i><br /><br />True. God's unchangeable and we're not altering His plan any.<br /><br />I tend to think the confusion for many Christians occurs in the realm of obedience rather than in an attempt to change what He's already decreed. <br /><br />On the other hand, the boundary of human arrogance seems to have no limit....Craig and Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962442989291080899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-29921929331385665272010-07-17T10:56:35.250-07:002010-07-17T10:56:35.250-07:00Z,
Part of Christians pushing 'too far' i...Z,<br /><br /><i>Part of Christians pushing 'too far' is that the left's started pushing them. I've thought a lot about this and most Christians haven't changed on abortion or gay marriage....they've always been against both....it's the change, these 250 years since our founding based on Judeo Christian tenets, which came so suddenly and is pushing so hard.<br /><br />I, too, believe you can't take religion out of any gov't be it from strong to very subtle influence. When we go into a voting booth, most of us can't help but be 'informed' by our faith and vote accordingly.</i><br /><br />Oh, the push back against Christianity predates the founding of the United States by around 1800 years, and well before illiterates were seated on the left side of the French Estates General.<br /><br />I'd dare say the left came about as a "revolution" against the excesses done in the name of Christianity by the extant syncretic polytheism of Catholic Rome, with all the excesses of lobbing off heads in guillotines in the name of human rights. <br /><br />In that context, Left and Right is a battle over who holds the legally sanctioned executioner's axe.(((Thought Criminal)))https://www.blogger.com/profile/17311656184275255223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-30799600071178187202010-07-17T10:41:11.527-07:002010-07-17T10:41:11.527-07:00Libertarians represent the wall of seperation betw...<b>Libertarians represent the wall of seperation between church and state over representing either church or state, where conservatives can represent church interests and liberals can represent state interests.</b><br /><br /><i>Hm. I'd disagree somewhat on the first half of that statement, but it's because I see man to be an inherently religious creature and don't believe it's possible to truly separate one's religious belief from the way he thinks and behaves. Religion has always been a determining factor in any governmental system. Sometimes it's more obvious than at others.</i><br /><br />I'm just saying I have to get off the conservative train when it starts heading towards "government should do X because 'God's will' is Y." <br /><br />I'm a libertarian and a Christian, and I'm pretty sure God's got the objective of His will covered by Himself. He created the universe and everything in it. Legislation here or there isn't going to promote or subvert Him or His will, and it's rather hubristic to assume so.(((Thought Criminal)))https://www.blogger.com/profile/17311656184275255223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-45407513807207073842010-07-17T10:39:52.544-07:002010-07-17T10:39:52.544-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.(((Thought Criminal)))https://www.blogger.com/profile/17311656184275255223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-9505506108786800842010-07-17T07:55:59.575-07:002010-07-17T07:55:59.575-07:00Beamish"I wouldn't say that libertarian a...Beamish"I wouldn't say that libertarian and Christian tenets necessarily conflict, but can under a theocratic government." Well, that's for sure but we don't have a theocratic gov't.<br />And yes, I agree on the anti-abortion issue.<br /><br /><br />Heather..Part of Christians pushing 'too far' is that the left's started pushing them. I've thought a lot about this and most Christians haven't changed on abortion or gay marriage....they've always been against both....it's the change, these 250 years since our founding based on Judeo Christian tenets, which came so suddenly and is pushing so hard.<br />I, too, believe you can't take religion out of any gov't be it from strong to very subtle influence. When we go into a voting booth, most of us can't help but be 'informed' by our faith and vote accordingly.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-23108488829363693262010-07-17T06:47:48.485-07:002010-07-17T06:47:48.485-07:00Libertarianism and conservatism does conflict wher...<i>Libertarianism and conservatism does conflict where conservatives seek to use the sphere of government to promote cultural or religious specificities. </i><br /><br />I'd tend to agree on that point and have often thought conservative Christians have pushed too far into the political realm in trying to effect moral change via legislation. Of course our laws should reflect morality --but I think maybe the CC's have often put too much emphasis on the desire to change the laws while missing the need for the corresponding change in people's hearts.<br />A person can be a libertarian and not be a Christian. And many would still treat their neighbors well.<br /><br /><br /><i>Libertarians represent the wall of seperation between church and state over representing either church or state, where conservatives can represent church interests and liberals can represent state interests.</i><br /><br />Hm. I'd disagree somewhat on the first half of that statement, but it's because I see man to be an inherently religious creature and don't believe it's possible to truly separate one's religious belief from the way he thinks and behaves. Religion has always been a determining factor in any governmental system. Sometimes it's more obvious than at others. <br /><br />HCraig and Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962442989291080899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-60476068990491769942010-07-17T06:28:02.487-07:002010-07-17T06:28:02.487-07:00Z,
I wouldn't say that libertarian and Chris...Z, <br /><br />I wouldn't say that libertarian and Christian tenets necessarily conflict, but can under a theocratic government. Libertarianism and conservatism does conflict where conservatives seek to use the sphere of government to promote cultural or religious specificities. <br /><br />Take the isue of abortion for example. Anti-abortion arguments on religious grounds tend to go no where with libertarians, but you can make headway with libertarians with an anti-abortion argument based on scientific and human rights grounds without ever invoking religion. <br /><br />Libertarians and conservatives in general want the same things, but have different maps to get there. Libertarians represent the wall of seperation between church and state over representing either church or state, where conservatives can represent church interests and liberals can represent state interests.<br /><br />Everyone's mileage differs of course, but that's the point. Libertarianism is not about conformity to anything but individuality over group / collective coercion. The groups can be left or right individuals, and libertarians thusly can be left or right. <br /><br />The greatest unification of right-wing libertarians and right-wing conservatives happened with the election and re-election of Ronald Reagan as President under the principle known as fusionism. <br /><br />I'm a fusionist.(((Thought Criminal)))https://www.blogger.com/profile/17311656184275255223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-14456968144150097892010-07-16T23:13:51.510-07:002010-07-16T23:13:51.510-07:00Pris "If I chose to live in another country, ...Pris "If I chose to live in another country, I can't imagine demanding a country-wide exception and recognition for my religious preference." Particularly if any of my ilk had committed such murder and then continued to threaten every corner of the globe, right!?<br /><br />Beamish, Heather...I don't see where libertarian and Christian tenets would at ALL conflict...<br />Your line about gov't is a really good one, Beamish (as usual)Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-53910806086634641282010-07-16T13:15:52.453-07:002010-07-16T13:15:52.453-07:00A libertarian Christian perspective is:
The gover...A libertarian Christian perspective is:<br /><br />The government should not do to others what the government should not do to you.<br /><br />Equal protection under the law is covered under that, as well as many other Christian principles held in mind when our nation was founded.(((Thought Criminal)))https://www.blogger.com/profile/17311656184275255223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-85912749193003619782010-07-16T12:19:27.934-07:002010-07-16T12:19:27.934-07:00"Religion is a private matter. Not celebratin..."Religion is a private matter. Not celebrating AT *public* schools doesn't mean the destruction of the foundations of the country, I think."<br /><br />FB, I agree that religion is a private matter. Even when I was young religion wasn't taught in school. However, the little ones made decorations, or greeting cards, etc. There may have been a Christmas tree in the office, or classrooms and always a Christmas program with carols sung.<br /><br />Years later, the Christmas programs were done at night on after school time. <br /><br />Today, there are actually some schools who disallow children wearing red and green outfits to school, during Christmastime. Ridiculous and punitive, IMO.<br /><br />The school calendar is mainly focused on days off and dates of school functions. None of which is a celebration of Christmas, and Christmas vaation is now called "winter break".<br /><br />Maybe somewhere there are still Christmas programs but not where my grandson went to school, which is in my area.<br /><br />If a student is excused from school to observe a religious tradition, I have no problem with that. <br /><br />But, as I said, Judeo-Christian tradition is an American <br />tradition, and Christmas is a federal Holiday. <br /><br />It's woven into our heritage, so, in this instance, as I said, if one can't accept this, or fit in, he can leave.<br /><br />We've given up too much as it is.<br /><br />If I chose to live in another country, I can't imagine demanding a country-wide exception and recognition for my religious preference. <br /><br />I would consider being free to practice my religion, as a plus and leave well enough alone.<br /><br />PrisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-11279870374696355412010-07-16T10:58:48.429-07:002010-07-16T10:58:48.429-07:00That's where I'm a Libertarian and may cla...<i>That's where I'm a Libertarian and may class with social and christian conservatives.</i><br /><br />Libertarianism doesn't necessarily clash with Christianity. While we respect civil government as a legitimate , God-ordained realm of authority, believers also are motivated to maintain a high-functioning, conscious level of personal responsibility.<br /><br />The main variance would be in our view of the main purpose of liberty.<br /><br />HCraig and Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962442989291080899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-58934325119489846572010-07-16T10:22:24.929-07:002010-07-16T10:22:24.929-07:00Holy smoke, FB, nobody (least of all ME) suggests ...Holy smoke, FB, nobody (least of all ME) suggests schools should teach religious ANYTHING. Just don't let them ignore or belittle the big religions of America while bowing to the miniscule in size.<br /><br />The "message" I meant about kids not going to religious services was one their PARENTS should give them, not the schools. !! I digressed!Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-71099848434867402182010-07-16T10:06:08.335-07:002010-07-16T10:06:08.335-07:00Not a message children should get.
I don't t...<i>Not a message children should get. </i><br /><br />I don't think it's the job of *public* schools to teach the importance of celebrating religious holidays. It's the job of the parents if they opt for it.<br /><br />That's where I'm a Libertarian and may class with social and christian conservatives.FrogBurgernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-88188138986464696082010-07-16T08:57:57.533-07:002010-07-16T08:57:57.533-07:00FB, some religious holidays legitimately call for ...FB, some religious holidays legitimately call for members of that faith to be in synagogue or wherever....Christians have forgotten the importance of being in churches to honor and worship God, mostly, so we see them taking off on holiday when they used to go to church. Not a message children should get. <br />And then we complain that Presidents' birthday holidays have become nothing more than LINEN SALES?<br /><br />Heather, that's the question of the century, of course. It's what plays on all our minds....think we CAN get into national healing without repentance? I doubt it. And we sure don't see much repentance.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-77955733329153472742010-07-16T08:09:41.657-07:002010-07-16T08:09:41.657-07:00I didn't say ban the holidays. I said don'...I didn't say ban the holidays. I said don't celebrate them at school. Which doesn't mean kids can't have vacation. And if some kids need to take their religious holidays by not going to school once in a while so be it. Maybe each kid should be allowed a few religious holidays that he/she can take as he/she wishes. And we're all set.<br /><br />Religion is a private matter. Not celebrating AT *public* schools doesn't mean the destruction of the foundations of the country, I think.FrogBurgernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-69074198561465847122010-07-16T07:45:00.172-07:002010-07-16T07:45:00.172-07:00Good point, Z.
Interestingly, deliberate, manufac...Good point, Z.<br /><br />Interestingly, deliberate, manufactured incidences of lawless behavior seems to have played into the establishment of several totalitarian societies. There eventually comes a point when people are welcoming an offer of "strong government" that promises to bring back a sense of order--even if it means the citizens become virtual slaves. :(<br /><br />The thought keeps returning...<br />Is the Lord humbling us in order to bring us into a place of national healing or is He going to allow us to continue to tear ourselves apart and reap the horrible consequences?<br /><br />HCraig and Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962442989291080899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-65704845499845340842010-07-16T07:25:15.779-07:002010-07-16T07:25:15.779-07:00Beamish, I see now...thanks.
Heather, when you sa...Beamish, I see now...thanks.<br /><br />Heather, when you say "The more chaotic a society is, the more likely the need for external govt oversight,"...some are worried that the chaos we have developing now (phony calls of 'racism', the harm that is inevitable to our health care system now that the bill passed, rampant illegal migration with a seemingly purposeful ignoring of doing something effective, etc, is doing just that: BIG GOVERNMENT IS WAITING...where else will people go when so many have been trained to need to go somewhere outside themselves?Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-89857002243088879902010-07-16T05:14:02.528-07:002010-07-16T05:14:02.528-07:00Beamish "Down" is what we're getting...<i>Beamish "Down" is what we're getting NOW</i><br /><br />Not in the sense I was using the term. "Down" is less government power. "Up" is more government power. <br /><br />Left and right are simply "how" government uses its power.(((Thought Criminal)))https://www.blogger.com/profile/17311656184275255223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-88740795847614090792010-07-16T01:07:35.121-07:002010-07-16T01:07:35.121-07:00Too many people want to pull government to the lef...<i>Too many people want to pull government to the left or to the right.<br /><br />How about down?</i><br /><br />Beamish,<br /><br />I tend to agree with you that education of children isn't a matter the govt needs to oversee.<br /><br />Well, I guess it *might* make a difference if someone is trying to engineer a society to certain pre-determined specifications. Then, it would be important to make sure that everyone learned the same things and became equally dependent upon govt for certain basic needs.<br /><br />Not entirely against things like localized learning co-ops, as long as parental authority and responsibility is not usurped by that of the state.<br /><br />Part of the reason our society is such a mess is due to the breakdown of the nuclear family unit at it's base. The State mandated and directed form of education has done a lot to contribute to the destruction of the American family as there is little time left during the week for people to build and maintain meaningful relationships at home.<br /><br />The more chaotic a society is, the more likely the need for external govt oversight. If Americans want less civil government interference, we need to strive to be more accountable as individuals. And that means parents need to behave like adults and take seriously our God-given duty to train our own children--not so much in the realm of academics, but in character and a love of what is honorable.<br /><br />Ultimately, this isn't even about the content of a given scholastic curriculum, taxes or private property, but rather, who owns the souls of the nation's children?<br /><br />If it is NOT the state, then we'd better stop rendering unto Caesar that which belongs to God.<br /><br />HCraig and Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962442989291080899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-17521372170991067272010-07-16T00:50:18.961-07:002010-07-16T00:50:18.961-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Craig and Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11962442989291080899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-80819823765704528332010-07-15T23:26:07.781-07:002010-07-15T23:26:07.781-07:00"Putting the holidays on the calendar will se..."Putting the holidays on the calendar will send a positive message to the Muslim community that you are welcome here..."<br /><br />Why?<br /><br />What have muslims brought to the world that we cannot make ourselves, from what i've seen in the last decade alone, various muslims brought death, murder and destruction to the world.<br /><br />I don't know about the rest of you, but i ain't stupid enough to welcome death, murder and destruction.MathewKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14385674205383405783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-36610815865150993592010-07-15T23:19:09.324-07:002010-07-15T23:19:09.324-07:00I got a warm feeling when I read this.
Yeah Chuck...<em>I got a warm feeling when I read this.</em><br /><br />Yeah Chuck ... when you get to be my age, you get used to having those sudden warm feelings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-30579645783341021892010-07-15T22:28:35.184-07:002010-07-15T22:28:35.184-07:00Beamish "Down" is what we're getting...Beamish "Down" is what we're getting NOWZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-31738445397316345192010-07-15T22:27:38.234-07:002010-07-15T22:27:38.234-07:00If there were no such thing as public schools...
...<b>If there were no such thing as public schools...</b><br /><br /><i>That probably isn't going to become a reality any time soon. But parents who don't appreciate what's being done by the schools can remove their children.</i><br /><br />But still have to pay tax assessments (usually on property) to pay for the public schools at the same time they're paying tuition at a private school or home-schooling. And worse, people without children have to pay these taxes. <br /><br />Can't really say we have private property in this country if you are required to pay annual taxes on it. You can lose your "private" property if you don't pay the local government-sponsored extortion racket.<br /><br />Too many people want to pull government to the left or to the right. <br /><br />How about down?(((Thought Criminal)))https://www.blogger.com/profile/17311656184275255223noreply@blogger.com