tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post6688931653861077749..comments2023-11-02T03:10:39.674-07:00Comments on GeeeeeZ!: "Bush reached across the aisle....Zhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-74561811739364518852013-12-26T18:02:01.097-08:002013-12-26T18:02:01.097-08:00Dave and Kid, I'm not reading all your comment...Dave and Kid, I'm not reading all your comments here but, honestly, Dave...for you to say you're remotely 'centrist' almost makes me laugh.<br /><br />EVERY SINGLE DAMNED CHANCE YOU GET, you slam ANYTHING we say here at geeeZ. you're NEVER EVER even halfway with us..so what's the center?<br /><br />This is anything but a 'rabid rightwing blog'..as a matter of fact, if I could and not be slammed forever by you, Ducky, and a few others, I'd prove far more centrist than you ever DREAMED OF...and I'm NO centrist, trust me.<br /><br />Plus, I have to say this because I'm sick of people slapping themselves on the back as 'centrists'..I think Centrists are like bisexuals; make up your MIND; be SOMETHING. A centrist is like the art at Bank of Americas (something I know well)...it's NOWHERE. It's neither good nor bad; a terrible thing to be if you're in the design world (which I was in here in LA quite prominently)<br /><br />Be SOMETHING...how can someone who supports the constitution supports Obama? Please, Dave....stop with the "I'm centrist"<br /><br />I think we'd be buddies if it weren't for politics, but politically? You're like every liberal I meet here in Santa MOnica. No offense, but........<br /><br />tell me how you're centrist.<br /><br />and I sincerely hope I haven't offended you but that remark got me going (obviously!) :-)Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-65594911110174439872013-12-23T20:33:41.283-08:002013-12-23T20:33:41.283-08:00Dave M, Yea, Roberts based his opinion on the idea...Dave M, Yea, Roberts based his opinion on the idea it was a tax and 'Congress can impose a tax'.<br /><br />That's quite a stretch, especially while the dems were claiming all along it wasn't a tax.<br /><br />Well, good luck to ya, couple people or 50 million on a comment section aren't going to change anything.<br /><br />obamacare is going to take our standard of living and quality down several notches over the next 5 years.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05287399775879832602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-72131107350158152882013-12-23T16:13:34.016-08:002013-12-23T16:13:34.016-08:00Kid, it seems to me that the biggest issue, indeed...Kid, it seems to me that the biggest issue, indeed what Roberts decided, was/is the mandate.<br /><br />Clearly the idea of a mandate is included in the Heritage Plan, although I'll give you that the Dems put the Heritage Plan on steroids.<br /><br />I'm at a loss, as a Dem, to understand why people my age [50+] need to pay for maternity care. That's certainly a legit complaint.Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16777087329254991970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-73923497434736053212013-12-23T15:04:07.169-08:002013-12-23T15:04:07.169-08:00Dave Miller, Thank you for the link. This is what...Dave Miller, Thank you for the link. This is what is needed for a meaningful conversation and I try to provide same..<br /><br />Under the section The Heritage Plan, under the section marked "4" is... "Spurred by larger tax credits for out-of-pocket health expenses, more Americans would pay directly for routine service now often covered b y insurance, such as dental work, eyeglasses, annual physicals, and treatment for minor scrapes and bruises."<br /><br />This is a reasonable idea. It represents the catastrophic plan that most people need through the majority of their life up until the senior years when HC is needed by most and would provide for "affordable health care".<br /><br />The ACA is the exact opposite, requiring for total coverage for everyone, including for example maternity care for 65+ year old women AND men.<br /><br />Based on this, I am saying that your statement that 'The dems brought a conservative plan to congress" is 100% faulty logic.<br /><br />We still have the issue of who is conservative. By conservative, I mean Following the Conservative method. Conservative can be defined as "follows the Constitution 100%", and if you disagree follow the 62% ratify rule to get the Constitution changed.<br />Therefore, conservative is not defined as how I view it. It is the Constitution, not my opinions.<br />We can then easily identify when a politician or organization is conservative by deciding whether its output and ideas follow the constitution.<br /><br />Yea, I know Roberts gave this evil thing the official OK, but you are not going to find any conservatives who agree with Roberts on whether the ACA is constitutional. It isn't. Maybe what we need is for someone to bring the case framed properly, but that's not likely to happen at this point.<br />Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05287399775879832602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-16236016836887370622013-12-23T11:28:10.105-08:002013-12-23T11:28:10.105-08:00Kid... you've defined conservative so narrowly...Kid... you've defined conservative so narrowly as to rule out any site that you do not deem conservative enough.<br /><br />Forbes is hardly a liberal site in the vein of MSNBC. <br /><br />I am sure that Tea Party favorite Jim DeMint, now head of Heritage, would argue with you about their conservatism.<br /><br />Maybe you could point me to a source that is conservative enough to be trusted.<br /><br />Here are a couple of relevant sections of the Heritage Lectures from Stuart Butler when their plans were developed.<br /><br />Regardless of whether you personally consider them conservative or not, it cannot be denied that the Heritage Foundation has been a major think tank for the republican party for years and in fact, former Speaker Newt Gingrich worked for them.<br /><br /><b>"the Heritage plan aims at achieving four related objectives: All citizens should be guaranteed universa l access to affordable health care. "</b><br /><br /><b>"2) Mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance. Many states now require passengers in automobiles to wear seatbelts for their own protection. Many others require anybody driving a car to have li a bility insurance. But neither the federal government nor any state requires all households to protect themselves from the potentially catastrophic costs of a serious accident or illness. Under the Heritage plan, there would be such a requirement. "</b><br /><br />And here is the link to the original source on the Heritage site.<br /><br />http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/assuring-affordable-health-care-for-all-americans<br /><br />Again, as I've said repeatedly, I am not talking about whether or not the ACA, in its current form is either good, or bad law.<br /><br />I am only saying, in response to the general thrust of Z's post about working across the aisle, that it is evident that the Dems brought a conservative plan to the floor of congress...<br /><br />Isn't that trying to work across the aisle?<br /><br />Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16777087329254991970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-56417960174320699472013-12-23T10:11:05.423-08:002013-12-23T10:11:05.423-08:00Dave Miller, If you say so.
Regards the ACA: T...Dave Miller, If you say so. <br /><br />Regards the ACA: The subject of healthcare has been up for discussion back to at least the Gingrich days. To say that the current ACA is based on any conservative planning for healthcare reform is an ubelievable bastardization of the facts/history.<br /><br />When I ask for proof that the heritage foundation wrote the ACA, show me the Heritage Foundation plan. If they wrote it why would they not have published it.<br /><br />Pointing to a biased site like Forbes is no where near acceptable. You may as well point to CNN or MSNBC which most of us know are pure propaganda organizations connected to the democrat party at the hip - literally. Look at the major players in the media and their family connections to the democrats and the current white house.<br /><br />Further, I wouldn't bet much that 'the heritage foundation' is a conservative organization. They could purely be advertising to a demographic for the sole purpose of collecting money.<br /><br />I'd have to add that vehicle insurance is also mandated but no one seems to have a problem with it, compared to the huge problems, intrusions, and unlimited capacity for government control over private citizens.<br /><br />Given this, attempts to associate obamacare with anything by conservatives is totally unacceptable and unreasonable. It is clearly attempted revisionist history being attempted by the democrats to disassociate this nightmare from the democrats.<br /><br />Lots of semantics here.... Are federal level republicans conservative? I wouldn't make any bets.<br /><br />Bottom line is the ACA belongs 100% to the democrats and anyone who supports them with a vote.<br />Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05287399775879832602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-70841921571411766202013-12-23T09:44:49.441-08:002013-12-23T09:44:49.441-08:00The ACA is nothing more than a discombobulation of...The ACA is nothing more than a discombobulation of unstable mandates which bears little or no resemblance to [insurance] and is neither caring or affordable! This legislated version of insanity needs to be repealed, forthwith! It should have been halted on or before a certifiable lunatic in the House Of Representatives emoted, to paraphrase, [pass it to see what's in it].JonBerghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01718776762194333398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-15232772200856490612013-12-23T09:14:33.274-08:002013-12-23T09:14:33.274-08:00David,
One of the issue I have with the ACA is it...David,<br /><br />One of the issue I have with the ACA is it is a moving target. If everyone had to have insurance, maybe but there is no clear guidelines and the rules today are the exceptions tomorrow.<br /><br />The ACA has so many exempted from it, big business, that the only thing that is for sure is insurance companies and pharma are going to make more fortunes. Now that the administration has paid back unions, big business and pharma, what is next.<br /><br />The people that are most affected in a negative way are the middle class and small businesses.skudrunnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07610092853412481236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-90473850878260307712013-12-23T08:56:36.744-08:002013-12-23T08:56:36.744-08:00Kid... regarding the ACA and the point that the GO...Kid... regarding the ACA and the point that the GOP fonds most distasteful... <b>" the Heritage mandate was indistinguishable in principle from the ObamaCare one. In both cases, the federal government would force individuals to purchase a product from a private company—something that Congress has never done before.”</b><br /><br />This is from a Forbes article on the original plan of the Heritage Plan, for whom Gingrich worked, and which has been one of the biggest financial backers of the GOP in Congress.<br /><br />Again, as I've argued, the ACA, with the individual mandate, at least would have to be seen as having its genesis in conservative thought.<br /><br />I will grant you that no direct legislation made it to either the house or senate floor, but plenty of GOP leaders supported this idea in the past.<br /><br />Again, I am not arguing about how good, or bad the current law is, just essentially answering a question.<br /><br />Z also asked about Dems working across the aisle, which I also answered.<br /><br />Kid, if I missed a question here, let me know...<br /><br />The picture BTW is of course me, and a simple google search of my name and Oaxaca would confirm that.<br /><br />You'll also see in that search that I have little time to do work for the DNC. Besides, I am much more of a centrist than the majority of the Dems...Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16777087329254991970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-60820078650362094612013-12-23T08:27:35.388-08:002013-12-23T08:27:35.388-08:00"Skudrunner loves to play the victim and pret..."Skudrunner loves to play the victim and pretend that elitists in N.E. disdain southerners"<br /><br />I never said all, from the NE just some. Nice try thoughskudrunnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07610092853412481236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-47316114153620846712013-12-22T20:43:35.443-08:002013-12-22T20:43:35.443-08:00Z, the only difference between dave miller and lib...Z, the only difference between dave miller and libman is dave types more and has a fake picture on the profile.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05287399775879832602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-13182724287732066312013-12-22T20:40:47.354-08:002013-12-22T20:40:47.354-08:00Z, Dave Miller has never responded to polite simpl...Z, Dave Miller has never responded to polite simple questions I've asked.<br /><br />Personally, I tag him/her as a shill for the DNC. bob beckell type manure thrower with never an ounce of back up.<br />Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05287399775879832602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-63506978306717690302013-12-22T20:07:24.476-08:002013-12-22T20:07:24.476-08:00Kid, I wondered about that, too.
I think there was...Kid, I wondered about that, too.<br />I think there was some sort of similarity in something the Reps came up with but nothing like the advocacy Dave suggests.......<br /><br />thanks for asking that. <br />We'll not hear from him again on that subject, I'm sure. <br /><br />the lefties come here and condemn and demand links, but don't come up with too many of their own.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-64034967373972216022013-12-22T17:19:07.257-08:002013-12-22T17:19:07.257-08:00Kid,
If you ask me, Dave needs to "come down...Kid,<br /><br />If you ask me, Dave needs to "come down"!JonBerghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01718776762194333398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-8871583924292357482013-12-22T17:06:43.708-08:002013-12-22T17:06:43.708-08:00dave miller needs to offer up some proof of the re...dave miller needs to offer up some proof of the repubs crafting the aca.<br />Or sthu.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05287399775879832602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-59116621771329532772013-12-22T16:52:36.249-08:002013-12-22T16:52:36.249-08:00"Dave, there's much in this ACA which Rep..."Dave, there's much in this ACA which Republicans don't agree with."<br /><br />Well yes, especially since NOT A ONE voted for it!!!<br /><br />Dave, I'm a little confused. Are you now trying to suggest that the convoluted, monstrosity known as the Affordable Care Act (ACA) with its reported 2,700 pages of <br />legal and 20,000 pages of regulatory gobbledygook, is somehow a product of the Republicans. But now that "blame Bush" (yada, yada) no longer works you guys are now trying [blame Gingrich]? I wonder what's growing in the field that you are pictured standing in?JonBerghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01718776762194333398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-61616878459231717272013-12-22T16:52:35.747-08:002013-12-22T16:52:35.747-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.JonBerghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01718776762194333398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-88236359751331203402013-12-22T16:30:55.656-08:002013-12-22T16:30:55.656-08:00Z... i'm not defending the bill... you asked f...Z... i'm not defending the bill... you asked for an example of a bill that the GOP developed that dems supported. Clearly the ACA fits that bill... that's all I'm saying...<br /><br />Regarding insurance portability, or the ability to buy across state lines... that would take a federal mandate to the states... are you in favor of that type if control from DC?<br /><br />It might be a good idea, but I can't see the GOP forcing states to accept it, can you?Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16777087329254991970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-52419139916104970642013-12-22T13:54:20.989-08:002013-12-22T13:54:20.989-08:00Rational Nation; you're so right about that bu...Rational Nation; you're so right about that but even folks from Mass. who like Obama will deny RomneyCare has been horrid on their state's fiscal situation.<br /><br />Dave, there's much in this ACA which Republicans don't agree with.<br />Plus, they had excellent ideas regarding buying insurance across state lines and keeping costs down, not prices...the costs of goods.<br /><br />Plus, I don't care WHO developed this stinker, it stinks. <br />Republicans don't stand up for something just because another Republican liked the idea...especially not if Gingrich did.<br />There are fine Republican senators and congressmen who are medical doctors and you should treat yourself to some FOX and hear them on the subject; it might be enlightening. Not coming from a ideological place, just telling the truth of most medical doctors...including mine, by the way.<br /><br />Mr Z's urologist is (was now) a far left lib...his assistant even wore an Obama Tshirt at work....The doctor and Mr. Z used to talk politics quite a bit...<br />Finally, when Obama was elected and the ACA started being discussed, Mr. Z went in for an appointment and the doctor asked "Where are the Republicans? Why aren't they fighting against the ACA harder?" <br />All Mr. Z could do was shake his head. He tried SO HARD to remind Dr Katz about the Ayers lie, the way Joe the Plumber was spoken to, Obama's inexperience and so much more..but, no..........Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-20627843681232104122013-12-22T08:36:08.635-08:002013-12-22T08:36:08.635-08:00Skudrunner loves to play the victim and pretend th...<br /><br />Skudrunner loves to play the victim and pretend that elitists in N.E. disdain southerners. I don't demean whole groups of people, only certain jerks that are within groups, unlItike what skud does when he labels all northerners, and especially New Englanders as "elitist."<br /><br />That sort of generalization to shame people is practiced by stupid folks on the right, like Sarah Palin who, when campaigning for conservatives, called rural parts of Virginia "The Real America."<br /><br />You can't get any more elitist, or stupid than that, can you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-10352398542170883422013-12-22T08:31:44.280-08:002013-12-22T08:31:44.280-08:00Patterned after RomneyCare the ACA if it works, wh...Patterned after RomneyCare the ACA if it works, which is questionable without a doubt, will impact the national purse in the same negative way RomneyCare impacted the MA state purse.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-82797837866361356052013-12-22T06:14:55.714-08:002013-12-22T06:14:55.714-08:00Z... Regarding liberal man... Maybe he was talking...Z... Regarding liberal man... Maybe he was talking about the ACA? It cannot be credibly argued that the basis of the plan, regardless of how well it works, was developed and promoted by the conservative Heritage Foundation and supported by many Republicans still in congress at one time.<br /><br />It is a bill that forces Americans to buy insurance from private insurance companies and the GOP developed their idea of it with big business along with Gingrich and the young conservatives of the Contract with America days...Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16777087329254991970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-87734509801565064312013-12-21T23:25:05.677-08:002013-12-21T23:25:05.677-08:00Const. Insurg.; I could not agree with you more o...Const. Insurg.; I could not agree with you more on this one.<br /><br />Liberalmann, let's see the bills Obama liked that Republicans developed, ok? Thanks.<br />Talk about an idiot.<br /><br />Ducky. "play the victim?" :-)<br />ridiculous..Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-61804992216964426052013-12-21T20:43:26.914-08:002013-12-21T20:43:26.914-08:00IMP.....
"Oi...maybe the Japanese will attac...IMP.....<br /><br />"Oi...maybe the Japanese will attack Hawaii again? One can hope."<br /><br />Pearl Harbor was one of our Ports (USS Frontier-AD 25). Many a good man died there. I'm afraid that we couldn't be so lucky to see a second attack meet with the success that WE envision. Your point is, however, well taken.JonBerghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01718776762194333398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-62524872830727033802013-12-21T20:40:54.828-08:002013-12-21T20:40:54.828-08:00Quoting a Comment from duck:
@Imp ==
Personally, ...Quoting a Comment from duck:<br /><br />@Imp ==<br />Personally, I'd like to live among like minded people...<br /><br />-----<br />duck:How do you know you don't when we have a toxic environment intent on keeping all divided?<br /><br />Kid: See, now there's a sentient realization from the duck. Push duck Push ! hehehKidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05287399775879832602noreply@blogger.com