tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post7720910397092792271..comments2023-11-02T03:10:39.674-07:00Comments on GeeeeeZ!: Sunday Faith Blog...were you once a non-believer?Zhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-31368916831688714432010-03-04T16:58:16.075-08:002010-03-04T16:58:16.075-08:00Reading the Bible in its entirety has had a profou...Reading the Bible in its entirety has had a profound impact on my faith, resulting in a depth and strength that I would not have thought possible and for which I do not have adequate words to describe. I once heard the New Testament described as an appendix to the Old Testament. This is hyperbole, for sure, but still points to a truth, that being that there is a central unity to the Scriptures--they cannot be broken--and that the New Testament at once unlocks the Old Testament and serves as the fulfillment of it. Truly, from Genesis to Revelation, Scripture testifies to God's holiness, righteousness, and His grace in Jesus Christ.<br /><br />-- a voiceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-60797094221963763222010-03-04T16:13:44.933-08:002010-03-04T16:13:44.933-08:00Once a "church" starts acting as an arm ...Once a "church" starts acting as an arm of a particular political party or non-Christian ideology it is no longer a church -- it is a POLITICAL organization.<br /><br />People who don't like it should leave and found their own denomination.<br /><br />How do you think Protestantism came into existence in the first place?<br /><br />I dare say there is as much disunity among various sects calling themselves "Christian" as there is among all the various other religions and political philosophies in the world combined.<br /><br />Disunity and discord are part and parcel of the human condition. Regrettable, perhaps, but inescapable nonetheless.<br /><br />The tension experienced by this phenomenon MAY be a major source of creative energy and inventiveness. Conflict -- real or imagined -- is tremendously motivating.<br /><br />After all the essence of stability and concord may be to sit forever on a C-Major chord, but there is no MUSIC unless we move through a labyrinthine series of modulations, thematic mutations, dissonances resolving into harmonies of various degrees of activity both away from and towards the starting chord. After adventures of this sort, the music seeks to resolve the conflict it expresses and finally comes to rest where it began.<br /><br />Without conflict there is no drama, no music, no invention -- no LIFE. <br /><br />DEATH is the ultimate resolution of conflict.<br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-39871018623923648112010-03-02T13:41:23.998-08:002010-03-02T13:41:23.998-08:00Great story, ME...thanks for sharing that with us ...Great story, ME...thanks for sharing that with us xxxZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-85010645034737547362010-03-02T12:31:56.207-08:002010-03-02T12:31:56.207-08:00My in-laws were total non-believers. They said to...My in-laws were total non-believers. They said to be catholic but never went to church (only for major events like a wedding or baptism) so my husband grew up in a home not knowing anything about religion. When we married we had a hard time adjusting as I came from a Christian family where we had daily devotional time together, grace was said before all meals and personal bible study was a given. After years of prayers and finally just literally leaving my husbands relationship with God in God's hands, one day I was getting the kids ready to go to church and hubby asked if he could tag along. I was thrilled but tried not to show it too much so I wouldn't "scare him off" about 3 months later, he accepted Christ as his Saviour and till this day, thank God, has remained an active member of our Church.<br />(me!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-41355937780862886002010-03-01T08:55:48.697-08:002010-03-01T08:55:48.697-08:00Waylon, I hate to be understood as broad brushing ...Waylon, I hate to be understood as broad brushing a whole group so i'm sorry if my comment seemed like I was suggesting that you were. I know you'd never think ALL clergy are like that. <br /><br />An interesting Bible study might be more enlightening than any church these days. And you are SO right, many churches have turned left and do support extreme leftist tyrants...what shows their idiocy is that people like Castro oppress their people so much but have sold to those with little understanding or desire to really see the truth that they're FOR THE PEOPLE, which I think is what puts the churches on their side in the beginning. Silly, but true?<br /><br />Sadly, the Episcopal church here has fallen deeply into that category and my own Episcopal friends are now Anglican, which hasn't at all gone for the leftist doctrine. The really scary thing is that that church's diocese owns the land and buildings (unlike Lutherans, for example, which are all autonomous, bringing other types of problems with it, believe me, but not this one)...and my Episcopal friends' congregations have had their churches taken from the diocese right from under them for not espousing the Episcopal gay clergy, and leftist philosophies!Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-91074153192709110962010-03-01T08:35:44.138-08:002010-03-01T08:35:44.138-08:00I should have been more specific, I guess. I would...I should have been more specific, I guess. I wouldn't broadly say that about all clergymen, some are good people and well meaning. Some maybe not so much. But the upper levels of all religions look differently at those below them in the congregation, and some of those religions have in the past and even today exhort their followers to commit some of the worst sins imaginable against others, asserting they are unbelievers, infidels or blasphemers. These are supposedly the people who speak for God here on Earth. Then there is always the question of whose God is the real God.<br /><br />I don't see the scriptures as being God putting pen to paper, but rather being individual men or women who have set down their interpretation of what God is and give some guidance for living life here on Earth. Some did great work and they merit reverence. I'm not one to think that we are automatically smarter today than people were back then and to sneer condescendingly at them as is commonly done by many today.<br /><br />But I do have some serious questions and concerns about some of even the most visible of the televised ministries appearing to have veered off the rails. I long ago recognized that I was right to not become enamored with the church I was brought up in — it's since gone off the rails and become quite stridently leftist and sympathetic with the like of Castro. <br /><br />I'm sure there are good churches around today, I just haven't found one that I have remained around for long.<br /><br />WaylonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-46628628805214799832010-03-01T07:21:41.438-08:002010-03-01T07:21:41.438-08:00FT...thanks for that...I do think most Christians ...FT...thanks for that...I do think most Christians 'think for themselves'...and I'm happy you feel that joy and I think you're so right about our fruits...<br /><br />Waylon...I think the Scripture's more where God is than in any church, don't you? And, I have to admit I don't know a clergyman who thinks he's closer to God than the 'unwashed masses' but you probably have a point that that is the impression on can get! if that's the case and some are, then they haven't read Scripture or their pride has got in the way, right !!? Thanks for sharing your story :-)Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-13768900184991286732010-03-01T06:44:19.737-08:002010-03-01T06:44:19.737-08:00Like most people commenting here I attended Sunday...Like most people commenting here I attended Sunday school as a child. For a number of years I recall attending almost every Sunday. I even joined the church at about the age of seventeen, and it was then as I was standing up to be confirmed looking out over those in the congregation that I was struck by the realization this just didn't seem right, that something was either wrong or missing. I think it was then that I realized that it was more important to come to understand the world with your own mind as independently as possible — not to be pushed into something as part of the herd. So the day I joined the church kind of marked the end of my attendance except for special occasions like wedding or funerals.<br /><br />I don't think I became an outright frothing atheist nor was I a self righteous religionist. My problem isn't believing in God, I can accept the existence of God as a possibility. I have not found anybody that prove definitively that God exists and no atheist can prove God does not exist. So I have no problem accepting people choosing to believe in God — and I remain open to the possibility to the existence of God.<br /><br />To me the problem is not if God exists but religion itself, or more specifically those who speak for religion. To assume the voice of God and assert that one is the representative of God on Earth is something common to all religions, at least those that I seem to have witnessed. The pretense that one is closer to God that the unwashed masses of the congregation — that the followers must follow and strictly obey the assertions of that leader, even to the point of slaying the unbelieving infidels is not something I could accept. To join the herd of true believers in condemning the unbelievers of the religious doctrine of the moment seems less Godly and more outright evil to me.<br /><br />I recognize that human beings have a body and a soul — the existence of a human spirituality. Perhaps that's what keeps me reaching out attempting to find God in church and somehow not being able to do find it.<br /><br />WaylonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-81174440641048552942010-02-28T23:14:12.737-08:002010-02-28T23:14:12.737-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Faith https://www.blogger.com/profile/00064746447414555577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-82869283803212013462010-02-28T22:06:19.490-08:002010-02-28T22:06:19.490-08:00Jen, thank you so much.
At my age now, I can pro...Jen, thank you so much. <br /><br />At my age now, I can promise you, change and growth are inevitable. I wish you a good life's journey.<br /><br />PrisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-37326835598948976532010-02-28T21:08:29.907-08:002010-02-28T21:08:29.907-08:00Great thread! So glad I stopped by.
Late here, an...Great thread! So glad I stopped by.<br /><br />Late here, and I haven't much time, but let me say that I was raised by nice, conventional, middle-class parents who identified themselves as Protestant Christians. Both were active in the church. Dad was a deacon, then an elder -- mother taught Sunday school for several years. I went to Sunday school in the Presbyterian church, and also sang in an Episcopal boy's choir across town. Member of my family were involved in both churches. Sundays were very busy in our household -- an exciting time frankly -- something to look forward to.<br /><br />BUT, very frankly it was more of a family and social thing than it was soberly spiritual and reflective, though like Pris I was taught from earliest childhood to say a prayer before going to bed every night. <br /><br />However, if I took anything seriously it was the wonderful MUSIC I heard and got to sing every week. Purcell, Vittoria, Palestrina, Sweelinck, Handel, Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Mendelssohn, Schubert, Brahms, Faure, Duruflé, Berlioz, Messiaen, Parry, Gustav Holst, T. Tertius Noble ... GORGEOUS glorious, thrilling, stimulating, beautiful beyond belief -- and all of it either direct quotations from the Scriptures or based on scriptural themes and events.<br /><br />I sang solos as boy soprano and was paid for my efforts. By age 12 I was playing church services at the organ, and played piano for the Sunday School all the way through high school.<br /><br />At any rate, I never lost interest in the Church, but when I went to college I spent a lot time "shopping around" by attending as many different churches as I could find -- including visits to the Roman Catholics.<br /><br />Because I had been involved with "the business end" of religion from an early age I grew cynical about church organizations, and quite correctly learned they were made of fallible, often venal, often rather silly and sometimes spiteful people. Consequently, it became more difficult for me to identify with any church in particular, because it was so apparent that the majority of Christians did not really practice their religion in any meaningful way -- or so it seemed.<br /><br />It was the high quality, great integrity and sheer brilliance of the MUSIC that made me certain that God was real -- but most of the WORDS uttered in humdrum, unexpressive Bible readings and tedious sermons lacking wit and insight struck me as decidedly second rate if not downright worthless.<br /><br />WELL, to try to make a long story shorter I fell in with a well-educated, highly sophisticated crowd of self-styled elitists in New York (my home town, where I spent a great deal of my time after graduating from college). Very frankly I got SO sick and tired of hearing them denigrate, lampoon, deride and condemn everything I'd been brought up to love and cherish it made me realize how WRONG they must be, and how RIGHT were the values with which I was raised.<br /><br />It's not really that simple, but since atheists, cynics and hedonists invariably make me feel uncomfortable and indignant, I've been searching for reason TO have faith ever since.<br /><br />Many Christians would doubt that I AM a Christian, because I think for myself, and need to feel that I am growing in an understanding of who and what God really is -- and understanding that I can translate into words of my own. If anyone would insist that is not Christian that is their right and privilege, but I can find no other way to identify myself.<br /><br />"... By their fruits Ye shall know them..." is a favorite bit of Scripture that -- for me -- tests everything and everyone. If cynicism, smugness, self-righteousness, mockery, contempt, bitterness, hatred, violence, slovenliness, enviousness, greed, malice, egoism and excessive pride are present, love and respect for the Lord are absent.<br /><br />I'm grateful for my faith, such as it is, because without it life would be unendurable, but with it life is often a great joy.<br /><br />~ FreeThinkeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-52601886237392543662010-02-28T20:36:17.807-08:002010-02-28T20:36:17.807-08:00Jen, the peace comes from reading Scripture, too, ...Jen, the peace comes from reading Scripture, too, as you know. Sometimes reading it out loud to yourself is even more peaceful and we 'hear' it even better..<br /><br />I'm glad Pris's story inspired you!<br /><br />And I have to admit, my story REALLY kind of freaked me OUT, Jen. I've had several things like that happen. <br />You'd think I'd have no doubts EVER. I wish.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-15821412049525374632010-02-28T20:23:33.451-08:002010-02-28T20:23:33.451-08:00Z,
your Matthew / Mark story freaked me out...in...Z, <br /><br />your Matthew / Mark story freaked me out...in a good way. <br /><br />:-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-76464837064753417762010-02-28T20:22:55.474-08:002010-02-28T20:22:55.474-08:00Pris,
I just want you to know that the story of ...Pris, <br /><br />I just want you to know that the story of your parents was inspiring to me, as a mother. <br />Thank you for sharing.<br /><br />It's also inspiring to me to learn about your personal spiritual journey. I know that I'll continue to grow and change until my dying day. I do SO miss the peace I once had. I know I'll have it again...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-57971414365144404062010-02-28T20:08:33.312-08:002010-02-28T20:08:33.312-08:00Faith,
I also thought David Horowitz when I read J...Faith,<br />I also thought David Horowitz when I read Jingoist's post.<br /><br />tioAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-66290357731328830392010-02-28T20:04:45.677-08:002010-02-28T20:04:45.677-08:00Beamish,
At the risk of sounding preachy, I'd ...Beamish,<br />At the risk of sounding preachy, I'd encourage you to read on. I think Ecclesiastes is a book we can easily relate to. There's something comforting about knowing someone else has struggled with meaning of life questions, but I think Ecclesiastes is more prelude than focal point. Solomon laments that there is nothing new under the sun. When Jesus is revealed, we discover that we are made new. "If anyone is in Christ, he a new creation. The old is gone! The new has come!" (2 Corinthians 5:17) The meaninglessness of life without Christ makes what he did for us that much more significant.<br /><br />tioAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-20654067767605174142010-02-28T19:34:01.473-08:002010-02-28T19:34:01.473-08:00Jingoist,
I was raised Lutheran. I spent some tim...Jingoist,<br />I was raised Lutheran. I spent some time in non-denominational Christian church, which my parents are in now, but I am back in the Lutheran fold. I enjoy hearing conversion stories though.<br /><br />tioAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-35525902748859410082010-02-28T18:47:27.337-08:002010-02-28T18:47:27.337-08:00Blue Like Jazz is a good read, Z.
My grandparents...Blue Like Jazz is a good read, Z.<br /><br />My grandparents took me to church when I was very small. <br /><br />I walked to church by myself as a child. I attended alone. I accepted Christ on my own.<br /><br />After spending my young adulthood with the same denomination...it just wasn't working anymore. I feel like I'm in the desert now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-46741135507889218812010-02-28T17:48:43.836-08:002010-02-28T17:48:43.836-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Faith https://www.blogger.com/profile/00064746447414555577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-32272289470538947322010-02-28T16:10:59.997-08:002010-02-28T16:10:59.997-08:00Faith, that's so comforting! He sure did TELL...Faith, that's so comforting! He sure did TELL YOU! :-)<br />Thanks for sharing that...<br />I have a friend who was a very involved Buddhist for 25 years...meditated 3 hours a DAY, etc.......she's become a Christian and feels such relief with it, that it's not about HER, but giving her life and her problems and all to HIM....she says the difference is astonishing.<br />PEACE is His, isn't it...astrology sure isn't!Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-77507314368792520822010-02-28T15:29:30.816-08:002010-02-28T15:29:30.816-08:00Z and Jingo, thank you both.
Yes, my sister and ...Z and Jingo, thank you both. <br /><br />Yes, my sister and I were very lucky. Memories came flooding back, rather emotional for me as my parents are gone now.<br /><br />I never stop missing them, but, they are never really far away are they.<br /><br />PrisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-91742431388274374822010-02-28T15:12:16.569-08:002010-02-28T15:12:16.569-08:00That's a great story, Z, and I could hear it m...That's a great story, Z, and I could hear it many times. When He wants to teach us, He teaches us even if it takes blinding us to our current projects. <br /><br />I'll tell one I think is similar. While I was still seeking, had one foot in Christianity and the other still in some occultic practices I'd picked up from the Eastern religions phase, I'd become fascinated with astrology. I'd learned to make horoscope charts for anyone who would submit to the experiment and had a great time learning how to match the chart with their personalities. I stayed away from the predictive side of astrology for a long time, though, because I knew THAT was forbidden by the Bible. Even what I was doing already was bad enough, of course. <br /><br />Well, I succumbed to the predictive stuff eventually, and one day I was studying my own chart and finding SO much unpleasant oppressive stuff in my future I was getting rather upset. I kept redoing the prognostications to see if I was getting it wrong and it kept coming up with that same unpleasant future.<br /><br />I had the Bible open on the table while I was doing this, and at one point a breeze from the window lifted the pages and riffled through them in a way that FELT portentous though it's hard to say exactly what that means. In any case when the fluttering stopped and the Bible lay tremblingly open at a new page my eye went immediately straight to <br /><br /> John 16:33:<br /><i>These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.</i><br /><br />I cried. I threw out my astrology books. (I have to say that there's something to it, though. I think what was being predicted there has been happening to me over the years, nothing dire, just a constantly recurring tribulation of a certain sort, just as He said we are to expect, and His comforting presence in the midst of it.)Faith https://www.blogger.com/profile/00064746447414555577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-53295519511233829182010-02-28T15:05:46.482-08:002010-02-28T15:05:46.482-08:00Beamish, you deserve to duck and run for that one!...Beamish, you deserve to duck and run for that one! <br />That was one beautiful treatment of those words...Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-84357325916115224692010-02-28T14:56:58.556-08:002010-02-28T14:56:58.556-08:00Jingoist,
to everything... turn turn turn... ;)
...Jingoist,<br /><br />to everything... turn turn turn... ;)<br /><br />It's not just for the Byrds<br /><br />::ducking and running::(((Thought Criminal)))https://www.blogger.com/profile/17311656184275255223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516627478339613810.post-8947050391251458812010-02-28T14:46:07.439-08:002010-02-28T14:46:07.439-08:00CONTINUED (as if that wasn't long enough?):
t...CONTINUED (as if that wasn't long enough?):<br /><br />that's only one story and I hope I got it all in because that was a shocker and a REAL eye opener, believe me. Maybe I haven't described it dramatically enough because reading it again it sounds Ho Hum, but it was SO weird to realize I'd read it WRONG so many times and then...well, it was quite a night.<br /><br />ALSO...every single time I get a big wigged again, worrying about something, etc., and mention it to a prayer group or at bible study, someone will come up with "Don't forget Matthew 6:25" or say "Hey, even the birds have what they need..."<br />That verse FOLLOWS ME AROUND.<br />Once I was very worried about something and went into a woman's breakfast room and there was that verse needlepointed and framed on her wall!Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989573357446569262noreply@blogger.com