Does shock jock hate speech lead to violence?
BY JENNA KERN-RUGILE Jenna Kern-Rugile is a frequent contributor to Newsday.
August 13, 2008 For the full article, click this link.
On July 27 a man walked into the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville and opened fire, killing two people and seriously wounding seven others. As someone who has chosen Unitarian Universalism as her faith, I was shaken by the news. Unitarian Universalism congregations, like ours on Long Island, define themselves as a "liberal religious community" - not liberal in the political sense, but because we believe in open-minded discourse and welcome people of all persuasions.How could such a community become the target of hate?
Police in Knoxville were quoted as saying that the man, later identified as Jim D. Adkisson, 58, targeted the church "because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that ... the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets." But where might Adkisson have come up with such ideas? Might the shooter have heard talk-show host Rush Limbaugh say that "liberalism is the greatest threat this country faces" and "the Islamofascists are actually campaigning for the election of Democrats" ......... O'Reilly has stated that "the far left in America is dominated by haters, people who despise their own country."... David Hudson, a scholar at The First Amendment Center, told me, "The First Amendment protects lots of offensive, repugnant speech." I'd say the above statements fit that description perfectly......those of us who reject the rhetoric of extreme right pundits can still speak out and try to put pressure on the corporations that air their shows and the advertisers who sponsor them. Censorship, no. Exercising our free speech and spending our dollars in sync with our values, absolutely.
ONE DERANGED NUT kills people in a church and it's the fault of Conservatives.
ONE DERANGED NUT kills a doctor who kills an abortionist and it's the fault of Conservative CHRISTIANS.
Does anyone see a pattern here? Is this really honest and is it the 'high road' the author insinuates she's taking? Here's Brent Bozell's response to this Newsday piece.
I happen to agree with everything I put in bold above, does that make me a potential killer? Oh, and I'm a CHRISTIAN. Be afraid....be VERY afraid! Some of the statements of Conservative talk show hosts are tough, let's face it, but ANYTHING as tough as KEITH OLBERMANN?? And, of course, the most important sentence in this Newsday article, the one not addressed again, was: "Someone who goes as far as shooting up a church is obviously mentally unbalanced. "
Why is it considered "SHOCK" to tell someone's truth just because it isn't a liberal viewpoint?
z...thanks to Priscilla who found the Newsday piece.
52 comments:
Are you suggesting that us libs hire personal bodyguards? :)
Hi, bb..I've missed you!
No, I'm not suggesting it, but Miss Unitarian Universalist sure does! :-)
How do you like Olbermann?
Clearly, we could snap at any minute, Z!
Sheesh...
Yes … but isn’t this indicative of the same mentality one finds at Huffington and KOS? At either location, it is possible to find opinions of pathetically unintelligent sociopaths … who say they are glad that Robert Novak has a brain tumor, and wish that the same could happen to all conservatives. It is amazingly similar to the filth we discovered earlier when the same kinds of people wished someone would assassinate our Vice President. And I think it is even more disturbing to note these people are writing hateful expressions toward fellow countrymen. There is no excusing the “nut” who murdered innocent churchgoers … but neither can we find justification for the muck expressed by Kern-Rugile. I personally find Limbaugh too often intellectually insulting, but to suggest that he is in any way responsible for the murder of Christians is beyond insipid. Honestly, people like this should be ashamed of themselves … but I am afraid they lack the humanity to confront their shame.
I'd like to read a little more about the killing of the head of the Arkansas democratic party.
Anyone who has listened to the unhinged loons on rabies radio knows what they are about. I don't understand why the right puts such a stake in these "pundits".
You folk sure do live scared. I think it's an extension of your devouring eschatology and not paying more attention to the example of the life of Jesus but your mileage may vary.
I would point out, mustang that many of your right wing brethren would absolutely NOT consider Unitarians Christian.
Liberals calls any view they don't agree with hateful, but are blind to the extreme hatred coming from their own left.
Convenient, isn't it?
Really, Ducky, why would you assume or imply that the murder of the Arkansas Dem was a conservative?
Who's the bigot now, making assumptions?
As of yet, the authorities say they are going through his computer, but they have yet to find a definitive motive. They do know the man was on several anti-depressants and had had behavioral changes at work.
Brooke,
You really ought to stop that nasty habit of assuming Ducky could piece together a coherent thought.
After all, he's told you many times that he's a leftist.
Brooke, I stated that I would like to read more on the case.
The assailant did not know his victim and he just picked the head of the Democratic Party on a whim?
No, I'd like some facts on that one.
Thanks, Ducky. Like Brooke says, you read this article and the arguments and then yourself insinuate someone from the Right murdered the Arkansas Dem.? By the way, go ahead and live your dream; read more on the murder. Let us know what happened. Maybe the murderer has the "Republican murder gene".
As for Unitarians, yes, there are many Christians who'd argue that what the U's believe in is not the Christianity of the Bible. So would Jesus, if you believe what He said, frankly. "I AM THE WAY..."
Mustang..amen to all that you said!
IMHO, media could influence an unbalanced person. Remember the fellow who shot President Reagan?
He was infatuated with Jody Foster and the movie 'Taxi'. As for Olberman, we will have to wait and see if some nut commits a crime and confesses, "Keith made me do it!" (Yes, as you guess, Rush made me mad enough to kick the cat once) :)
Far as I can tell, bb, the Tennessee killer didn't say "Hannity made me do it"
I guess we'd ALL better be writing our favorite authors and advising them not to sell their books; you never know if some whacko's read them and kills someone and the author'll get blamed!!
Rush gets on my nerves sometimes, too. But, you couldn't get me to kick any cat for love or money. See how volatile you lefties are? (Smile) And I think O'Reilly's a blowhard panderer, but do NOT tell anybody. ssshhh!!
I'd tell you what I think of Alan Colmes, but then you'd get me all riled up and you'd have to go warn that Santa Monica Unitarian church on 18th and Arizona that Z's comin'! (not!)
You're absolutely right, Z! It is obvious the man is deranged and anything could have set him off.
Alan Colmes says things all the time that utterly piss me off, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go into a liberal church and kill people and neither do I intent on taking it out on Colmes personally. If either radio or television talk-show hosts have to worry about every nutjob out there, then we'd better shut down all talk shows period, including idiotic ones like "The View." I wonder how the lieberals would feel about those apples? After all, what's good for the gander is good for the goose, ya know.
Oh, and the Daily Kos definitely needs to go. Talk about hatred! I can't even read their comment section it's so vile.
Does ANYBODY know for certain when Rick Warren's Obama/McCain debate will be on FOX.
I'm not a fan of Warren's, but I do want to see this.
Funny, isn't it? I Googled FOX in every way I could figure out and Google isn't telling me how to get that information. "funny", huh?
not
Interesting, the priorities of the left. One maniac commits a horrific crime and it's the fault of the right.
Yet, the murder of 86 people, twenty one of them children, sanctioned by the Clinton Administration, at Waco was justified because of allegations of "child abuse".
How many of our military have died because the left has provided aid and comfort to our enemy in war, by encouraging them as their allies against America?
The fact is, none of the radio personalities mentioned in the article advocates killing anyone.
I suggest Ducky listen to the rap
song played in conjunction with the Olberman Show, and tell me that isn't hate and a call for killing. The link is embedded in the piece.
How convenient to call for Christians to live like Jesus, but the secular left of course gets a pass because they aren't Christians. For them the ends justify the means, and since they believe only in a political dogma, they're home free.
A real piece of work, Ducky is. Our very own example of leftist smoke and mirrors, and done with a sense of self importance which defies reality.
Pris
Rick Warren on FOX is at 8 EST Saturday. Just saw it on TV
NEW RAP CRAP CALLS for the O'REILLY and MALKIN!
Olbermann is referenced prominently.
Please check these links:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/08/14/new-rap-song-advocates-killing-bill-oreilly-michelle-malkin
Links:
[1] http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/08/east-coast-aven.html
[2] http://hotair.com/archives/2008/08/14/hip-hop-group-youve-never-heard-of-hey-lets-kill-bill-oreilly-and-michelle-malkin/
~ FreeThinke
PS: Article appears a Lucianne.com under Must Reads today. FT
Z, I know you're joking about comin' for the Unitarians. Still,
I'm a Unitarian myself, and last Sunday for the first time ever there was a sheriff's patrol car in our parking lot when Sunday services let out. We didn't ask for it. The officer said that the sheriff directed patrol officers on duty Sunday morning to provide extra protection to the UU churches in the county.
As much as we appreciate the police attention, if the fact that the sheriff thinks it's needed doesn't signal that it's open season on liberals, whether at the hands of Rush Limbaugh or the Jim Adkissons of the world, I don't know what would. That's the plain fact of it.
Liberals and conservatives can take mean-spirited, snarky verbal pot shots at each other all day long. There are certainly good people of conscience in both groups, and to some of us, this is deadly serious business. It would be lovely if some reasonable self-identified conservative would follow the example of the Christians in Knoxville and stand up and say what's really important, that human life is precious, and anyone who advocates for ending even one life for political reasons is unconscionably out of line. With the right to free speech comes a responsibility to use it wisely. There are clearly talking heads across the spectrum who fail miserably to live up to that responsibility.
Sorry! That headline should have read New Rap Calls for the MURDER of O'Reilly and Malkin.
FT
Everyone should be aware, if they are not already, that Founding Father JOHN ADAMS was a UNITARIAN, and considered himself a devout Christian.
Just a fact–––not an insult or a challenge.
~ FreeThinke
anita, is an unborn child's life precious and needing of protection at all costs, as Jesus would say?
I don't think for a moment that anything Rush or Sean has to say is getting anybody killed but I so appreciate your concern for your church and will be praying nothing happens, of course. This man was sick. That he's conservative is completely pointless to the situation.
We have issues at our church that gays can come and demand marriage and we could have problems herein California because we go by Scripture...We love gays as we love anyone else, but we do not honor gay marriage; I hope you'd respect that stance, too, in your obvious concern to be fair.
I agree that the rhetoric in America's become ugly and even dangerous. I'm hoping the Left will hold the feet of Keith Olbermann and the NYTimes to the fire as gleefully as they condemn anybody on the Right.
Thanks for coming by. YOu probably won't be back to read this, but it made me think and your words are very welcome here. May God bless you and yours.
FT, John Adams could call himself a mule because he had long ears, too.
It's like getting repair instructions for BMW's and thinking you can build a yacht with them. If you're going to build a yacht, get yacht instructions, right?
'"...the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets." But where might Adkisson have come up with such ideas?'
Duh. By watching the media outlets maybe? I never needed Rush to tell me this stuff, but I was sure glad to find out there was a Rush and some others who were saying what we all knew anyway.
Also there is far more hate speech against conservatives and Christians in this country than against liberals -- which is what Mustang seems to be saying too.
Excellent response by Brent Bozell.
Again, the difference b/w Libs and Conservatives is that they tend to be hysterical and we tend to use common sense. Generalizing is childish, in my opinion.
Olbermann makes me reach for the remote quicker than that guy selling OxyClean in an informercial. He's repugnant. Nothing intelligent or coherant comes out of his mouth, and I just can't stomach him.
I'm surprised MSMBC is still on the air. Are they? I haven't tuned in in ages? ;-)
And if this chick thinks that a mentally ill gunman can single-handedly blame conservative talk radio for his chemical imbalance, she obviously hasn't done her research.
I think Cube had a great point.
FT: I've had to come to the view that most of our founding fathers weren't really Christians after all. Adams did a lot of Christian type talk but he didn't even believe Christ is God; and Washington prayed and certainly had Providence on his side in the founding of the nation, but it's unclear how orthodox his beliefs were. We know Jefferson was no Christian. Oddly enough, probably the only one of them that was a true Christian was James Madison, and yet the atheists claim him because he was so dedicated to the cause of separation of church and state (it doesn't occur to them that his interest was in protecting the church from the state, not the other way around.)
Geeez, maybe the guy just hated his ex-wife...
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (WVLT) -- In an order of protection filing obtained by Volunteer TV News, Tennessee Valley Unitarian Church shooting suspect Jim D. Adkisson's now-ex-wife says he talked about "(blowing) my brains out (and) then (blowing) his own brains out."
In the document, Liza Alexander, then of Norris Freeway in Powell, said she was "in fear of (her) life and what he might do."
----
Adkisson's ex-wife once belonged to the church but hadn't attended in years, said Ted Jones, the congregation's president. Police investigators described Adkisson as a "stranger" to the congregation, and police spokesman Darrell DeBusk declined to comment on whether investigators think the ex-wife's link was a factor in the attack.
---
“Karen Massey, who lived two houses from Adkisson’s home, told the Knoxville News Sentinel of a lengthy conversation she had with Adkisson a couple years ago after she told him her daughter had just graduated from Johnson Bible College. She said she ended up having to explain to him that she was a Christian. ”He almost turned angry,” she told the newspaper. “He seemed to get angry at that. He said that everything in the Bible contradicts itself if you read it.” Massey said Adkisson talked frequently about his parents, who “made him go to church all his life. … He acted like he was forced to do that.”
Oh, MAN, FJ....He WASN'T a Christian? That sure ruins the story for some people, huh?
Thanks for the information....the truth shall set you free!!
CJ...I don't have the time or energy to look it all up now, but I've done some reading on who considered himself Christian and who didn't and I'd say most of the founding fathers were people who at least celebrated CHristmas. I'm not sure they were all Bible readers or devout, but......they weren't MUSLIM, I know THAT!!
Of course, you can Google and get the exact founding father and two exactly conflicting views based on things they said.......quotes supporting whatever the agenda you want to find, frankly.
The husband and I were members of a U-U church and were married in it. We are both Republicans so any stereotyping doesn't apply, as it usually doesn't pay to paint with a broad brush.
And, yes, Unitarians do consider themselves Christian and open to incorporating other aspects of different religious thought into services.
This man was ill and for whatever reason snapped. He was a member of the church, if the reporting was correct.
I've read all the same stuff, Z, I'm sure, collected many of Barton's books for instance, and read and heard from other sources as well. You are right, you will get both points of view. This is simply my view of it after digesting it all myself.
Maybe I should be clearer. John Adams considered himself a Christian but by orthodox standards (minimum, belief in Christ as God and Savior), he's not. Nor is Jefferson, who rewrote the Bible and probably considered himself Christian too. Celebrating Christmas maybe makes you a cultural Christian, but in some cases not even that. I'm sticking to the standard of true orthodox Bible-believing Christianity. James Madison appears to have been truly born again.
there are nut jobs on both sides of the fence... does anyone ever mention anything about the libs that go postal? no..
Sounds like Ducky is really hoping to find out the killer of the head of the AR Dems was a conservative. As if it is going to prove some point for him, or validate in his mind that all conservatives are evil.
Ducky, you need to get past this immature way of thinking. Someone had their life taken away from them by a lunatic. If that lunatic happened to be conservative, it in no way represents other conservatives any more than it represents other Arkansawyers.
I mean, are you to be held accountable for the actions of all liberals?
Z, this is a great post and something I had not thought of. I really thought this was some crazy disgruntled member. Far be it for crazies to be crazies and good christians going to church getting shot to be victims. I guess only liberal minorities are victims. :)N
Karen, FJ's post includes "Police investigators described Adkisson as a "stranger" to the congregation,"
The Unitarian church here in CA near me is apparently quite different than you describe. I frankly couldn't imagine Republicans at this one, from what I've been told. It's very much more into Jesus being a very good man than their actually being Christians who believe in his divinity.
I'm sorry if I offended any Unitarians here. I have no reason to believe they're anything but nice people.
M.A.,
Ducky, you need to get past this immature way of thinking. Someone had their life taken away from them by a lunatic. If that lunatic happened to be conservative, it in no way represents other conservatives any more than it represents other Arkansawyers.
I mean, are you to be held accountable for the actions of all liberals?
Beamish's Hypothesis clearly states that leftists (like Ducky) are incapable of rational thought.
Stop trying to push your Western values on him, man.
That this lunatic has been basically labeled an out of control Conservative should come as no surprise. The hatred of the world used to be focused on large entities like the U.S. which represented a unique form of Conservative Christianity; a beacon to the world for much of the last century. Now that the U.S. also means individuals like Obama and the Clintons, the scapegoating has narrowed down to one group and that is the Conservative Christianity that America was known for. The shrill accusations that are being leveled at us may be irrational, unfair and completely ungrounded. But I have a feeling things are going to get a whole lot worse before they get better.
The Founding Fathers were a mixture of Christians, Deists with at least one claiming to be an Atheist. I guess they were all Christian in the sense that they had what we would consider Christian values. As far as born again goes, I'll leave that to God.
Oops, I forgot. Thanks for the reminder beamish.
Shoprat, which one considered himself an atheist?
There are levels to this question about how Christian the founders were, and how Christian the nation is. It depends on how the word is defined. There is no doubt that the nation is culturally Christian and the founders were too. Beyond that, there are Christian practices even connected with our government, such as prayer in Congress, even in Jesus' name, which was inaugurated by Benjamin Franklin, not really a Christian himself.
But if you ask whether the founders themselves -- at least the big names -- were REALLY Christians, the only one I know for sure fits the definition by the orthodox churches was James Madison.
I think shoprat says it right when he says "we have to leave it to GOd"
George Washington never missed a service in his box at the church but apparently left during communion..out the door,and then back in. He felt unworthy? He found it ridiculous? Felt like he wasn't really a Christian? how can WE know?
Personally, I'd say Thomas Jefferson was the nonChristian because he either removed or added pieces to the Bible! that's nuts. There's a Jefferson Bible...from Wikepedia: "The Jefferson Bible, or The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth as it is formally titled, was Thomas Jefferson's effort to extract the doctrine of Jesus by removing sections of the New Testament containing supernatural aspects as well as perceived misinterpretations he believed had been added by the Four Evangelists."
They had a faith, most of them, and it wasn't buddhism or islam or judaism, we know that! And they had Christmas trees and many mentioned Jesus in their public prayers. That's about it in a nutshell!
By the way, "faith" is another name I use.
CJ
yes, Faith, I JUST now found that out!! The blog looks good..keep writing!
"If we don't know, we don't know" is right. But HE does!
Yes, Z, He does, but I'm not sure why we are arguing this.
The point is that much of the information does indicate that most of them weren't STRICTLY SPEAKING Christian, because of some facet of the faith they rejected for instance. It's more clear in some cases than others of course. Most of them were Deists, but in those days being a Deist was like being Unitarian -- most of the heritage of Christianity was retained in it despite the abandonment of some of the supernatural basics, and the name of Jesus wasn't abandoned either, even if His deity was abandoned.
If you count ALL those who are regarded as founding fathers, there are over eighty of them, and surely some of those were true Christians. But otherwise Deism really was the religion of the day back then, even for those who regularly attended the main denominations.
But it seems that what concerns you is not really whether the founders were themselves true Christians, but more that the nation be understood to be Christian in values and philosophy -- not Muslim, for instance, as you say -- and that's certainly true whether the founders were orthodox Christians or not.
I didn't mean to post here as "faith," but I guess what's done is done.
In spite of all the vinegar being spewed out here by the conservative posters, one of their own killed two people and injured seven others because he hated the liberals that attended a church he used to attend!
That says it all. No other commentary is needed.
It's a leftist fantasy that we Christian Conservatives are just as nasty, lowly and deranged as they are. Anyone killing and committing crimes in the name of Conservatism will get no succor, excuses or pity from us. There is no room for that here, head over to the left, they've made an art-form of apologizing and moralizing mass murderers and ideologies that kill by the millions.
very well said, MK...
always good to have you here!
If anyone is still interested in this information, here it is:
The man who shot the head of Democrat Party in Arkansas was a used car salesman .
He owned several or at least a couple of different car lots .
The individual who shot him had two vehicles from this man , and it looks like both vehicles were lemons.
Maybe ..just maybe , he felt like he had been robbed or something , and obviously he had other mental -emotional issues going on in his life.
Maybe , to him, losing his job was tied to the fact he had bought some piece of crap car from this guy , car was un reliable , therefore disabling the man from getting to work, there by getting him fired?
Just a theory.
WVDOTTR
naaa...WV..Christian..Conservative.. He killed because of THAT, not the jilting! (Smile)
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