Do you feel McCain would do better with a LESS conservative VP running mate, or a MORE conservative VP running mate?
I'm really interested to see what you all think....Z
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36 comments:
More conservative VP.
John McCain has the center, independents, and fiscal conservatives sewn up, and his Senate record is not incompatible with social conservatives who bother to research him.
I'd pee on myself with joy if he chose Alan Keyes.
I think he's going to wait and see who his "official" Democrat opponent will be (even though he "unofficially" knows it is Hillary) before he begins Phase Two of his plan to take the White House.
I think he will go right...I think that will be his downfall.
In my opinion, he should go center or left. So far, his support has been mostly moderates and independents, why should he risk LOSING that support to try to wine and dine the right who DON"T want to be wined and dined, and who in larger part will NEVER come around to him if you listen to their rhetoric. He'll move right, and it will cost him the election...that's my take anyway.
Pati
Elbro, which conservative african american woman do you have in mind? Are you a Condi fan? I've kind of gone off her since the Palestinian/Israel stuff she's suggested....
Pati, if he goes left he loses every conservative who would vote for him whether they like it or not, 'holding their nose'...it would be such a smack that then even I wouldn't blame them for deserting a sinking ship. I think Conservatives are feeling they're tired of having to vote for someone who's further to the left of them just because that's the only way to win; why do they have to give up THEIR concerns and values? I think they DO, but it doesn't feel good. If he stays with someone more centrist, maybe that's the key? he won't be able to be labeled 'too far' 'too left'....it's a thought.
but who? whom!??
Mr. B....waiting to see the opponent is a good point except they're both so alike, so far left, i'm not sure it can influence his decision..? It COULD as far as gender and color, that's true. They're real different there, ol' Hill and Obamanation! Boy, you're not the only one on Alan Keyes; I've heard a lot from people about the longing for Keyes again....
A Black running against another Black. THAT would be a good thing for America. Too bad only one has enough age and experience.
Z,
They're 'tired?' Bush was TOTALLY THEIR candidate! They're TIRED??? OMG LOL I guess we will simply have to agree to disagree on this...THEY have controlled the party since Reagan and THEY are now TIRED? LOL I will never concede that they have ANY place for the outrage they exhibit. It's been ALL them and it's been the DISASTER of Bush that is costing the party....my oh, my...how quickly they forget.
Republicans are the ones who are tired, so voila, enter McCain. They are voicing THEIR outrage at the base who THEY see as having saddled the party with so much BAGGAGE that isn't REMOTELY Republican.
I suppose perhaps it is time to just have a parting of the ways. I cannot abide the sanctimony of the base. I can't Z. Especially when the party has been dictated TO by THEM all this time...and now they whine and try to act as if they have BEEN the ones having to 'settle?' Pullleeezzze. Nope. You'll have to sell them goods to someone who wasn't around for it all.
What I am hearing on my blog site is that many, many, many conservatives WILL NEVER, their words, vote for McCain. So, my reasoning is, why should he risk losing the support that has brought him this far from Independents and moderates only to win a small portion of conservatives? It is the wrong move in my opinion because it won't make up for what he'll lose from the center if he moves right.
I am so tired of hearing about their 'personal' convictions that they hold somehow higher than the good of the country or generations to come...well, I hope they are sufficient to carry them for all that time, and they aren't saddled with regret when reality sets in.
I meant what I said before about promoting ONLY third party candidates and encouraging all who I know to do the same if the conservatives sit out this vote. If they do that, I don't ever want to be associated with the term or the mindset that puts personal and what should be PRIVATE belief and conviction over the good of the nation. That's just the 'me, me what about me,' mindset that they say is hurting the country...ugh.
They are NO different than the liberals except in what they want the gov't to thrust upon the people...and that is the antithesis of what it means to be a Republican, so the break was bound to happen. It should have been us with them in 2000, but either way, I think it was a foregone conclusion when you consider the glaring fundamental separation of ideals between conservatism and Republicanism.
(hey, thanks for my surprise in the mail! came today, and it was my ONLY one, so it's extra special...)
Pati
NO I was just starting the short list of who he would want to pander to
he can pick an alien from Mars for all I care
I think the base is pissed because the got sold a bill of goods....Bush was nothing like Reagan
Bush was all talk
and if the 'more' progressive part of the Republican party wants to split from the 'more' conservatives than there may come a time when a third party may become viable
Elbro and Pati, I don't think America has TIME to develop a climate conducive enough for a conservative third party. Four years of THIS liberal a type of person (hillary or Obama) with a Dem Congress may put us in the unrecoverable category....unrecoverable to being the America we know and love. It'll be an America we don't recognize, you know that. An America which lowers itself to bowing to the UN, having tea with dictators who've threatened our demise in public, an America whose people want freebies and hate corporations and hate and want to take from the people who do well for themselves;
Our America wouldn't stand for any of that! Free Market will be a thing of the past. Our constitution will soon be in the hands of ideologues who put their dogma before the constitution. Well, both of you are far far too bright for me to be filling YOU in on things YOU can teach ME about!!
Pati, are you talking about the craziness of not voting to those women at your site who're saying that? Honestly, I'm not a violent woman, but you could slap them! Like "wake UP! THINK SUPREME COURT" I'd be over there (and might be soon) telling them they're going to lose the Supreme Court and then don't be crying to US about their paying for abortions and gay marriage!! Just DO NOT come crying about that....not when you didn't even VOTE!!
LOL
Well, come on over and slap them for me Z...I'd love that! Yes they either claim that they will not vote for him at all or that they will hope for Ron Paul or Huck to run a third party ticket (some of those who will not vote for McCain are Ron Paul supporters! I know, gag.) Anyway, yes they are all over the place indicating that they will not be able, 'in good conscience' to vote for McCain. It's their 'convictions' don't ya know that they value more than your or my freedoms and future. Aren't they a lovely crowd?
Do you see why I am becoming so disenchanted with the conservative bloc? LOL
Bush may have turned out not to be wht they expected but he WAS the conservative nominee...folks like me voted for other candidates in the primary...we lost, you didn't hear us whining...we just accepted the democratic selection by the WHOLE, and did the DUTY and voted for him...now they want to renig...sorry, but I have no respect for that..
Pati
Well, pati, I let them have it over at Cafe Moms! (just don't tell anybody I'm NOT a Mom!)
I hope they don't think I'm a McCain campaign worker...shudder. Sure sounded like one. I basically reminded them of the Supreme Court.......and how voting for the lesser evil does not mean he's necessarily evil!
well..maybe that was dumb; sometimes my logic isn't too sharp!!
John McCain's biggest danger is that not enough of the conservative base will show up to vote. Without them, he loses, end of story. Rick Santorum or former Senator JC Watts from Oklahoma are good SOLID conservatives who would help John with conservatives FAR more than they would hurt him with "moderates."
Morgan
I wasn't thinking this time around
Elbro, you are never 'not thinking'...what do you mean?!
I think he means in terms of a third party or separate party from Republican...maybe next election cycle...
That was what I was talking about as well.
Pati
Z,
you did great..so far no response, but that's because most of them are not very active on the weekends. Alot of them still have small children, and the weekends are family time with dad...translation, break time for mom. ; )
But, good job. Some of them are so stubborn in their stance...I don't know if anything will wake them up to the reality of what their refusal to vote for McCain will bring about in the long run.
Pati
at least ONE of them ought to be a conservative. *;]
Thanks, Pati.
nanc..that is HILARIOUS! EXCELLENT point!!
That's an easy question. McCain already IS the appeal to the middle of the roaders, independents, and moderate Dems. Adding another moderate to the ticket wouldn't increase his appeal...or the turnout. Better to add a conservative.
And of course you have to consider that a V.P candidate is the de facto Republican candidate when McCain's 4-8 years is up. So you have to look for the future as well.
But it isn't all that important to McCain's victory in the long run. When was the last time YOU voted for a candidate because of the V.P. on the ticket? Never, I suspect.
I'd rather McCain spend his time figuring out how he'll win back the conservative base than spend too much time on his running mate. That's how to get the turnout in November higher.
Mike
Sorry Mike, but after their treatment of him and mischaractization of his record and calling him a ...liberal! We all know 'thems fightin' words, mista...' I wouldn't blame him if he just said, thanks, but no thanks.
AND, you presuppose that he's already won ALL the indpendents and moderates there are for the taking. When you consider the number of states that allow crossover voting in the Primaries and independents to vote in either, I think it would be naive to think the vote in a general would be exactly the same as that in primaries. I know many Republicans who figured that McCain was already going to win and so they tried to affect the Dem race instead. I don't think anyone has a real handle on how things will go once the nominees are set.
Pati
Hi, MIke,
I think you're right that nobody will vote for or against McC because of his VP, BUT the selection is important for what it'll say. If it's a very conservative guy/woman, the implication will be that McC thinks he's perceived as too Left, soo...If it's the opposite, the implication is he's grasping at straws trying to get the Lefties in. Not WHO it is, but WHAT IT SAYS...does that make sense?
This is why MY bet is that he picks someone not unlike himself. Some of my friends think he'll pick Lindsay Graham, but others think Lindsay is a little light in the loafers, and THAT won't fly even if HE could! But, boy, Graham was poking his little face into a LOT of pictures with mcC there for a while..accompanying him here and there, remember? but, naaa
I wish it could be JC Watt ... or Michael Steele, personally... great guys BUT the media would call it pandering. Oh, the irony of THAT, huh?
Pati..your first paragraph has me stymied.."thanks but no thanks" from whom to whom??
Alan Keyes is black? I thought there was something wrong with my TV set.
And here I was thinking he's one of the two guys (Duncan Hunter being the other) that ran who best represented my views.
Mr. Beamish, what percentage chance do you give that McCain will choose Alan Keyes as his running mate?
Little to none, Z.
Alan Keyes has the same "problem" that Huckabee has - he talks about "God" - although Alan Keyes does it in the pure, non-denominational American Constitutional heritage sense, whereas Huckabee waves it around like a televangelist flag and hopes people are fooled by it while he raises their taxes "for their own good."
Here's something for your black conservative friends to consider.
Mike hit the nail on the head. The VP choice usually has little bearing on the vote for President.
There is one proviso, that the VP nominee is not too controversial. To my mind, Lindsay Graham fits into the controversial category. Let's not forget he called the anti-illegal immigration activists, bigots. It was not appreciated btw.
Mike is also correct that whoever the VP candidate is will be in line for future Presidential nominee.
Mr. Beamish- I like Alan Keyes too, but I think he is too much his own man to be VP candidate. I don't think he's a team player, and would be a loose cannon on the campaign trail.
To choose a black person just because he/she is black would be interpreted as tokenism. I can hear the press now.
The one exception may be Condi, I think that case would be more difficult to make. But, she's not a political animal. I think she would say no. Socially I don't think she's all that conservative, BTW.
JC doesn't have quite the stature, and Michael Steele who does, unfortunately is a proven loser in his own state.
I too, think McCain should stay with a conservative. Romney is conservative enough. Someone outside the Senate who can bring to the contest another perspective.
He would probably be the Presidential nominee if it weren't for Huckabee, who was a spoiler.
So, that's my pick. A McCain/Romney ticket. Mull it over folks, whaadya think?
Pris
Pris,
I think Condi would KILL on the conservative side, particularly on 2nd Amendment issues.
Violence was turning her hometown into “Bombingham” as Alabama’s governor George Wallace fought a federal court order to integrate the city’s schools. The Ku Klux Klan [i.e. DEMOCRATS] bombed the homes of blacks who were beginning to move into white neighbourhoods. Among the targets was the home of Arthur Shores, a veteran civil rights lawyer and friend of the Rices. Condi and her parents took food and clothes over to his family.
With the bombings came marauding groups of armed white vigilantes called “nightriders” [i.e. DEMOCRATS] who drove through black neighbourhoods shooting and starting fires. John Rice and his neighbours guarded the streets at night with shotguns.
The memory of her father out on patrol lies behind Rice’s opposition to gun control today. Had those guns been registered, she argues, Bull Connor [DEMOCRAT] would have had a legal right to take them away, thereby removing one of the black community’s only means of defence. “I have a sort of pure second amendment view of the right to bear arms,” she said in 2001.
I like Condi, she's a girl from my hometown.
And I do have a soft spot. My grandfather, who's own TV and radio repair business in Birmingham was burned to the ground in the late 50's because he hired and trained blacks in electronics, was also a Republican Party organizer.
He may have been one of the Republicans that registered Condi's father to vote.
Mr. Beamish, do you like THE BAND? I've practically memorized that great piece you've got with your second article. I have to admit I nearly jumped out of my wits at 3 AM this morning when I couldn't sleep and decided to blog! Our bedroom's right across the hall from this office and the music was so up I thought my husband would be, too! cracked me up! He stayed asleep! I love that piece...it's like washboard music, you know?
Ya, I figure Keyes has the same chance you do. Anybody who thought Huck could win with having said "we need to bring America back to Jesus" on tape is not awake.
Mr. B...would you believe I got tears in my eyes reading that National Black Republican piece? Ya, to think how much we are LIED TO BY OUR TEACHERS, OUR MEDIA, BLACK "LEADERS" who do nothing but lead their people away from being the great bunch MOST can be if they hadn't bought into the great affirmative action mentality LIE....makes me weep for a whole minority of people who more to offer this country than hip hop and Michael Vicks. SO much more! And weep for dishonesty in everyone who wants to much to keep these facts quiet....maligning Republicans with LIES!
WHEN ARE WE GOING TO SET IT STRAIGHT? And WHY CAN"T WE?
Pris, not sure about McCain/Romney...two white boys both of whom you want to take your hand to their hair and rough it up, you know? Figuratively and literally? WE ARE WHITE WE ARE RICH WE ARE CONSERVATIVE McCain's wife's an heiress, there seems to be enough for independents to turn away from....just a hunch. And ABSOLULELY...you're right about ANY Black now being taken as tokenism, more's the pity. Keep thinking...I'm leaving it to YOU to pick the VP nominee. And I stand by what I said about how it's not important really about who it is but what it SAYS about McCain...."Aha, he picked a leftie, he feels he needs to go there..aha, he went right...he's pandering to the base" ARGH!!
Mr. Beamish..what a story about your family. Your grandfather must have been quite a guy. THIS is the kind of story everybody ought to hear and digest. It's the true history of race in this country, not only the half a story (1/4?) "They" want us to know.
Mr. B...would you believe I got tears in my eyes reading that National Black Republican piece? Ya, to think how much we are LIED TO BY OUR TEACHERS, OUR MEDIA, BLACK "LEADERS" who do nothing but lead their people away from being the great bunch MOST can be if they hadn't bought into the great affirmative action mentality LIE....makes me weep for a whole minority of people who more to offer this country than hip hop and Michael Vicks. SO much more! And weep for dishonesty in everyone who wants to much to keep these facts quiet....maligning Republicans with LIES!
I was born in Alabama in 1970, lived there until 1984.
Imagine me, sitting in a 5th Grade classroom, with a history teacher (education unions.... Democrat) as old as dirt and black students in my class, hearing the tired old "Dixiecrats are Republicans now" myth - me a 10 year old screaming at the teacher "How can you believe this? YOU WERE THERE!"
I hate DemoKKKrats. God I hate them so.
Mr Beamish..did you read Clarence Thomas' Autobiography? what a book...the South, the black mentality of his 'daddy' versus the mentality of the Black man we're told prevails today.........fascinating. Then, to read the young black mind's thoughts as he enters college and becomes a lib...then realizes "what the ...?" and is cured of the liberal disease.
It speaks to what Alan Keyes says is the problem with education in America - "we allowed our judges to remove God from our schools" - that assault on the cornerstone of our heritage has brought ruin to our culture.
The Republican Party is guilty of much the same today. Let me explain:
Republicans won the South not by racist appeals, but by religious appeals - how can we call ourselves a Christian nation if we allow injustice to stand against our Christian brothers of a different skin color? The message was like wildfire and the tide against Jim Crow turned just as Christian appeals to abolishing slavery did 100 years prior.
The Republican Party is guilty in that it conceded irrecoverable ground - now it's "intolerant" to fight for American culture. And worse, since the victors write the history books, up is down, backwards is forwards, and "Republicans are racists."
It's pretty depressing to really weigh how unscrewable America is screwed. I think to maintain optimism, but it is hard.
Look at us. Instead of trying to dismantle the socialist snares choking us to death (Social Security, etc.), we shake out fists at Mexicans and say it's ours!
We screw ourselves, and don't even get a kiss out of the deal.
Fleeing for the mountains looks better and better.
I'm building a bunker
Mr. Beamish..
What would you do with Social Security, and do you not think it's being "unscrewably screwed" to be paying many millions every year in services to illegals?
You're right about the Christian angle Keyes reminds us of; I totally agree there, and you're probably drawing the parallel betweeen the illegals today and the Blacks who were finally freed BY CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES back then, but I don't see it. Blacks were NOT breaking laws, running my city into the ground, threatening people, refusing to assimilate, etc etc.
Not ALL illegals here are doing that, of course...not even close, but we hear all the time of rallies where they're calling for VIOLENT take over of the West...how they're entitled to us, how we're the interloper and need to be taken over. I live here, and I'm not exaggerating, Mr. B.
My own Mexican friends tell me this stuff...their kids are telling them. It's not good. A friend's gardener told her something's going to happen and that he'd protect her, then he quit on her. I'm ALL for helping these people who want to come and assimilate in America, like they did for YEARS......lending the beauty of their culture to California (except mariachi music!),etc., going to school and getting good jobs, raising great kids! That's not what's happening anymore, Mr. B. Not on the whole.
You misunderstand me, Z.
We frame the argument against illegal immigrants incorrectly.
We all (or should all) want to get away from the Social Security Ponzi scheme. But instead of arguing for that, we argue about how illegal immigrants are going to destroy Social Security.
If illegal immigrants are destroying Social Security, then by God, let's all get a truck, run down to Mexico and smuggle back as many Mexicans as we can.
It's time to crush the "third rail" of American politics.
You want Social Security benefits, go knock on Franklin Roosevelt's tomb. He promised it to you.
Not my generation.
I see. I misunderstood you probably because I can't imagine what we'd do without the Social Security program...for old people who haven't saved, couldn't invest, etc.
So, we use Mexicans as SOCIAL SECURITY BUSTERS. well.....what does a 72 yr old widow without SS do, Mr. B? I mean, I'm all for self reliance, you know that, but...
So, we use Mexicans as SOCIAL SECURITY BUSTERS. well.....what does a 72 yr old widow without SS do, Mr. B?
Tell her to keep an empty margarine tub full of fast food ketchup packets for her Bingo cards and losing lottery scratch off tickets.
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