Do you support states seceding from the union? Do you think they'll get very far?
Your thoughts on IT?
Could a state survive? I'm curious about this...............
z
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39 comments:
Richard Armour used to say, "Nothing succeeds like secession."
We tried that once.
It resulted in a civil war (which most people think was over slavery, but that was secondary to the secession issue. It was why some states wanted to secede, but the issue was secession).
Are we ready for that again?
I think that if Obama keeps it up, all but the very bluest states will revolt.
Don't think secession, think REVOLUTION.
Of course, the federal government will not allow any states to secede.
What I want to know: Has anything like this happened since 1860?
I don't see any serious attempts at secession being mounted. Online petitions at WH.gov do not by themselves rise to the level of concern. States are also sadly permanently affixed to the federal teat.
The best to be hoped for by those who would support the idea of secession, are ideas like the Free State Project.
They are just petitions, so they have no meaning, and succession would be horrible.
Now, what would work would be thirty or more states banding together, standing together, and confronting the federal government with its own serial malfeasance and refusing to pay for it.
If enough states forced a legal crisis, perhaps some things could be set right.
kurt Silverfiddle is right. However, I do see a time when secession would be logical. That would be when the debt time bomb and the worlds fiat maonetary system collapses. There will be utter chaos in that time. It is logical to me that state would begin to secede and create their own currencies and their own economies. In time they would begin trading with other states that had seceded and maybe eventual they form some kind of "confederation" of states.
Interestiong question, Geeeeez!
Z - I am against states seceding from the Union. Although we could let Texas go. :]
I don't think they would survive on their own.
Maybe Georgia too.
Sue, it seems to me Texas is the only state worth keeping and absolutely the only state that COULD make it on its own.
Silverfiddle, that's my take on it, too. I have always thought banding together and confronting the gov't is a good thing to consider.
AOW, this threat apparently has happened after a few of the last elections....who knew?
I believe threats of secession are more a kind of registering of discontent than anything..as if THIS gov't gave a damn what anybody thinks.
If they DID give a damn, Obama wouldn't have Richard "screw the rich, don't touch entitlements and who cares about the deficit?" Trumka at the White House today along with other union officials.
Next week, it's CEOs...none of whom are from Wall St.
You can't make this stuff up...
Yup...Trumka's first in the president's ear (cuz AXELROD likes him :-)
Obama couldn't care LESS what Americans who aren't on the dole or aren't far lefties think...this Trumka invitation says it all..
amazing.
actually, I believe I just heard it's tomorrow that O's meeting with 'business leaders' none of them CEOs from Wall Street....there are such a majority of lefty Wall St CEOs, I'd have thought he wold.
CNN is saying that Obama's meeting with PROGRESSIVES today :-).
Wouldn't sound good to say "Far left liberals," would it..Oh, no, it wouldn't !
Oh, even 'better'...Yahoo says the White House is billing this meeting with leftwing business 'progressives' as a discussion about the FISCAL CLIFF ..
Yup! don't forget, these are people who believe the rich can carry our country forever....how ELSE could they have voted for Obama? :-)
Axelrod is a communist.
This country, like CA, has been taken over by unions and big corporations.
About secession, if that happens, that'll happen through a revolution. A bit like the former Soviet Union. I do believe it can happen as you know, especially if the fiscal cliff happens. What if the dollar was worth nothing and stopped being the international currency. If the Chinese have a lot of dollars, and those are worth nothing, they could very well be asking for their currency to become the safeguard of monetary value. It happened to the British pound, it can happen to the dollar. And then we're done and ready for the implosion.
And by the way, things like the Patriot Act will come bite us in the rear end should we have to uprise against our government. It has been protecting us against terrorism but once we are the "terrorists," it's going to be difficult.
I think some people want such a crisis to happen by the way. Axelrod is that type of guy. They want it bad so they establish their rules. With Martial Law, it'll be very easy when the merde hits the fan.
Maybe I am paranoid but I do not trust these people.
I think if it'll work, go for it. My state joined in!
We just have to see how it all unfolds, but I support it. I prefer to be in my Red state than under a blue president.
I think that Silverfiddle's idea is plausible and the existing "Red" states are fairly contiguous. But I would caution that B.O. would probably love to have an excuse for Martial Law any way that he could. If Texas, alone, was to succeed their border problem(s) would increase 10 fold! Well, on second thought, it might relieve some of it!
I believe Texas is the only one of the group that does NOT suck in more from the Feds than it pays back.
Get ready for your economy to go into recession, Leticia. You sure you've thought this out?
Four more years of hearing the Moocher telling us what we can or can not do, eat., drink While they live high on the HOG.
I'm with Leticia on this one.
Fact is we have to face it that we are a very divided country now. It's not just red or blue either. It's grievance groups from Latinos, Blacks, Black militants, Latino militants, the "have nots", the poor hating the successful...illegals dictating to this country on their terms while they defiantly admit to breaking the law.
States going bankrupt trying to provide social services to those who do not deserve it over Native Americans. States under economic assault by the most vocal, racist groups who refuse to speak the language and truly assimilate.
Give them back the 13 colonies minus South Carolina and Georgia. That's one country. Let the west coast form another. It hardly resembles a cohesive America any longer judging by the electoral map this past election anyway.
Commerce? Why not? We deal globally with many foreign enterprises. Let the red states take back all federal lands that were seized by the feds and have them control energy needs and policy like OPEC.
Z - I think Indiana is worth keeping.
FROM Z of GeeeZ:
Sue, I know an awful lot of Indianers very ticked; and that is on the secession list.
I think FrogBurger could be right, sadly; this is a government who can't even call terrorists terrorists, but they'll sure come down hard on Americans with guns, won't they.
And now Obama's doing some deal like putting us under the UN in regards to gun ownership. I'm hoping Switzerland fights (finally) for us all. That country's not giving ITS guns up any easier than Americans will...but O's going to try.
What the HECK is he planning:?| You run the economy down, you get the media to never the truth, and you belittle the other party...then you tell Russia you're "flexible" now, you threaten gun ownership, you tell us what to eat and drink...
there isn't a space big enough to leave a list of that stuff, is there.
@Z...
" I know an awful lot of Indianers very ticked.."
No more so than Florida...everyone I know is disgusted, embarrassed and ashamed of this incompetent, totally screwed up, corrupt, inefficient and totally incapable of a fraudulent free election at counting ballots. Once again FlaDuh proves they belong in Chicago with the demrat Mafia.
And deserves all the ridicule one can heap upon this crappy state. ( Home to Travon and the NBPP too )
Cutting loose the 4 southern counties that are more libbie deranged than even California...is what I hear going around.
Miami - Dade may as well be a Cuban satellite anyway. And is home to the worse than Pelosi...rat.... DWS. Then the illegal ghettos in Palm Beach County along with the corrupt St. Lucie County belong in their own welfare sphere.
And I can't say enough about the militant complacent Rabbis of Dade and Broward either. They'll do what they're told....as always they'll march without question....even to their own doom and demise. They've forgotten history.
I think a better course would be for 2/3's of the states to call for a Constitutional convention, and rein in the parasite on the Potomac.
To thoes who may advocate succession, what of the money, currently, owed by the Federal Government Of The United States to succeeding states and citizens thereof. For example do you think that the remaining Blues like NY and CA will honor the Social Security and Medicare that we have paid into all of our lives? At first blush succession sounds good but it's far from simple.
@JonBerg
"owed by the Federal Government Of The United States to succeeding states and citizens thereof."
If they're that successful...then they won't need it. Besides...it ought to be up to individual states who they provide care to...not a monolithic, corrupt federal government.
Many states are telling the feds to piss off with obamacare.
Nothing worthwhile is ever easy....think about what the founders faced...and yet...they joined together to defeat and defy a global power at the time to a path of freedom and independence. We red states are now facing the same situation and decision. Do we want to be a part of this gargantuan, corrupt out of control government?
Thomas Jefferson said it best. After 236 years...it's now time again.
"And now Obama's doing some deal like putting us under the UN in regards to gun ownership. I'm hoping Switzerland fights (finally) for us all. That country's not giving ITS guns up any easier than Americans will...but O's going to try."
Z, I think that's a treaty, and if it is, it has to be ratified by the Senate, even if Obama signs onto it.
If the people rise up and tell their Senators "don't you dare", I think they'll back off. Not all Democrats are against gun ownership.
Besides, they may worry that's a step too far. After all there's a little thing called the 2nd Amendment!
All hell could break loose!
@Prisc
"All hell could break loose!"
Well said and damn right Prisc. The "blues" will cower in the corner cause an a-hole like BloomTurd tells them to...the rest of us will remember history.
And I don't think there's one cop or soldier who'd ever take up arms against our fellow citizens for demanding that the Constitution prevail over the UN or any other any other commie wish to de-arm us.
Ok,for example Social Security,* the seceding states will just pick it all up-I get it now! Here's another question: What happens when a Blue State refugee whishes to reside in a Red State? I used to live in a Red State which has turned Blue as a result of in-migration.
* Although Social Security is the quintessntial Ponzi Scheme we were forced into it and it's all some have, myself NOT included!
Texas might they have alot of resources. If anything it just sends a clear message to Marxism.
My post was mostly for curiosity about what you all thought of this secession thing; not so much if you promote it.
I need you all to know that "Liberalmann" was here early today, used his typically disgusting name calling and said we were nuts for being curious.
I thought that kind of says it all about the left...all I said in my post was I AM CURIOUS and they freak out! they can't take anybody being curious enough to look into things in case they don't like the outcome.
This is liberal America; we need to educate. When did this happen???? When did people like Liberalman and our media stop being at least CURIOUS?
Awful
Lisa, I agree with you; it does send a message of extreme discomfort and anger; I'm for that, that's for sure!
You know, the more I think about it, the more I can see the possibility of the USA to change.
After all this country is young and its identity as a nation is still in the making. It has been binding people together via fundamental principles.
However those principles are now contested by the left. So if a nation cannot agree on its principles, can it remain a nation?
Look at France. Everybody agreed to Liberte Egalite Fraternite. Left or right, people pretty much agree on the those principles. (I personally am not fan of them but I'm not there anymore.)
It takes time to build a nation. The USA is still in its infancy if you compare it to the history of European countries. Italy only became a country in the 19th century for example.
So I think we are going to one of those identity crises. That is why some people are suggesting secession. They don't recognize themselves in the principles some people want to impose on them.
And Liberalmerde can "aller se faire cuire un oeuf." He's a dumbass.
BTW a quick rant for people like Liberalman.
Don't tell me you want to save the American dream when all you want to become is Europe.
This lack of logic or intellectual honestly makes me go crazy.
SECESSION and SUCCESSION are two entirely different things.
The South did not SUCCEED, when it tried to SECEDE.
Prince Charles is next in the line of SUCCESSION to the British Monarchy.
SUCCESSION by the way is not directly related to SUCCESS.
To further confuse the matter:
CESSATION means to STOP -- the result of a direct order to CEASE and DESIST.
You may think me irritating for pointing these things out, but SOMEONE has to stand up for the integrity of our language, or we will lose the ability to discuss matters with any degree of wit, subtlety, accuracy or depth.
Unasked for advice:
DON'T trust your "ear." LOOK IT UP before you post. I do more often than not, and it's well worth the extra time.
It is NOT "rude" to correct others when they are dead wrong. Look at it this way: It's doing them a favor while you perform a much-needed "Community Service."
~ FT
FT: "SECESSION and SUCCESSION", point well taken.
SF: " Now, what would work would be thirty or more states banding together, standing together, and confronting the federal government with its own serial malfeasance and refusing to pay for it."
I concur.
IP: " Many states are telling the feds to piss off with obamacare"
This sounds like a darn good start.
Could they make it? Sure. Just declare war on the U.S., surrender the next day and allow the U.S. to rebuild them.
(With apologies to "The Mouse that Roared").
New Hampshire has a perfectly legal right to leave the Union AND Washington D.C. can't legally stop us.
We have the ONLY State Constitution in the country that 1. Precedes the U.S. Constitution and 2. Specifically reserves unto N.H. the RIGHT to unilaterally secede from the Union. We have just passed up our best chance at secession though. For the past two years we had a 75% Republican State Senate and close to that in the House. This last election killed our chances of doing anything for a while now. We turned a much brighter blue than we ever were before.
Between the riff-raff moving in to the southern areas of the state and the THOUSANDS college students voting here instead of in their "non-swing" states, we are becoming less and less conservative. In just three towns which are home to three state colleges, bozo garnered over 9,000 votes more than Romney, bozo got over 2/3s of the votes of these towns, and there are other communities close to these schools which were also affected. The bulk of our school populations come from VERMONT, MAINE, MASS, NEW YORK, and other blue states. You readers residing in other swing states might want to check your school towns for the same problem.
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