Friday, November 15, 2013

So, what's RADICAL and what ISN'T?


This man doesn't represent all muslims.  DOES he?   He's talking about homophobia, stoning for adultery, women sitting separately.    "...If it's what Allah wants, it's what we should apply in the world."   Then he asks if the audience believes in those things.  They all raise their hands and he says "We're all of those opinions!  What's the media going to say now that we ALL think this way.....that we're all radicals?  All extremists?  That they need to deport us all from this country?"  
They're in Norway.   Think that's not said here?

I happen to believe there are still muslims who don't believe in stoning, aren't homophobic, don't want you and me dead, etc.  Do you?

Z

36 comments:

Ed Bonderenka said...

You should read "Dying Out Loud",
(http://store.influenceresources.com/products/dying-out-loud).
It's about Stan Steward and his family living in Turkey as missionaries.
Two things are extraordinary.
The love they found among the muslims for them.
The providence of God for them while they were there.
Radical?
Living your life for Christ can be the most radical experience in the world.
It can get you killed if done right.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

I've met and worked with many Muslims, and can attest to the fact that there is a large segment of that faith, who generally want the same things as the rest of us do.

There's no argument that most rational people will find fundamentalist Islam to be 'radical'. And as Ed stated, being fervent in any religion can be construed either positively or negatively, as 'radical'. I would add to this thatan equally rational position is that any attempts to codify a religious code in national law or policy, where there is no corresponding secular value, can be just as 'radical'.

Z said...

Ed, I'll check that link out later...thanks.
Excellent comment. I'm Armenian, so I've seen Turks who had absolutely no love at all for anyone but their own, but you are right, I've known absolutely lovely Turks.

CI..Exactly right; and what I wrote in my post. ALL MUSLIMS do not want us dead.

This does not mean we can rest on that and believe there are not more of those in my post than we'd like to think. And, of course, the man is right; "there are so many of us who believe in stoning., etc., that we are NOT fringe, we ARE muslims and the west can't get rid of us." This is worrisome.

It feels like there are more muslims in America trying to codify Sharia Law and other things than any other faith dreamt of.

We can't ignore these things because "most muslims are really nice people". Those who are not are counting on us.

Mustang said...

I think most Mohammedans are people, just like ourselves. I think most people don’t believe in the ancient ways, most people don’t think much about Americans at all (much less whether they hate us), and most don’t think that terrorism has anything to do with them. It is somewhat like that fiasco in Guyana some years back. I never identified Jim Jones with my perception of religion, and in fact rather than to think of him as a religious kook, I thought of him as a kook.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Remember how Hitler vilified Jews (also as Christ killers) for political purposes?
That's what the Muslim dictators are doing when they vilify the West and/or Christians for their position in the world.
I also think that most muslims are
also as familiar with the koran and most "Christians" are familiar with the Bible.
They only know what they've been told.
Not to say that here isn't bad stuff in there, just what gets emphasised.

Ed Bonderenka said...

" and most "Christians"" should be " as most "Christians""

The rule of law is crumbling said...

In today’s news, there’s an interview with Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, where the Commissioner says he felt betrayed by the Democratic mayoral candidates, who he claims used him and the NYPD’s stop-and-frisk policy as political footballs

Ray Kelly seems like the adult in the room. We need more Ray Kelly's and fewer Liberals like Bill de Blasio.

Kudos, Ray Kelly! He is the last, real man, standing in New York City. Go take a well deserved vacation Ray, they don’t make them like you anymore!

When the minorities stop committing the majority of violent crime in NYC, then and only then, will they not be the subject of stop, question and frisk. Blame your fellow minorities and not the police for actually trying to do something about the problem do decent people of ALL races can walk the streets in safety. Blame the Rappers and the Black Basketball and Football players for being the worst role models possible.

JonBerg said...

"I happen to believe there are still muslims who don't believe in stoning, aren't homophobic, don't want you and me dead, etc. Do you?"

Well yes but how can one tell, given the stealth of those who [do] believe in such, which ones "don't"?

Im Krabby said...

Muslims and Islam are a clear and present danger to those of us who just wish to live our lives and be left alone and untouched by their insanity and anger.

To think otherwise is being foolish and careless.

If the so called "radicals" were required to wear uniforms...they'd have the largest army on the face of the earth.

Anonymous said...

From Z of GEEEEZ:

Thanks, Mustang; I completely agree with you.

"the rule of law": I have always admired Ray Kelly very much.
I'm sorry that the Stop and Frisk has been represented by some Black Americans and the left as so wrong, when we all know it was WORKING. Apparently, as I said in an earlier post, it's more important to not hurt feelings of those wrongly stopped than to prevent MURDERS of those who were innocent bystanders.

"Im Krabby"...good point about uniforms..I see your point, too.
I do know that all Muslims do NOT want us dead, but I think most Americans would appreciate hearing them speak out against terrorism by their religion ..marching against it, etc.
Also...it only takes ONE person to REALLY ruin our day now..ONE plane going down, ONE letter with anthrax in it, ONE......

So, what the heck do we do?

Sam Huntington said...

Intellectually, we know that Mustang is correct –but as JonBerg points out, there is an element of distrust. I personally do not trust Moslems and if there is not that, then there can be no meaningful changes in how we view one another. This is their problem, not ours. We didn’t fly planes into or bomb Mecca … although I have always wondered why not. The point being, we have never declared holy war against the Moslems, but they have certainly declared holy war against anyone of the Christian faith. Not most people, but their highest and most influential Imams, who like Obama are fascist dictators.

Dave Miller said...

Jon, so it is best to assume the worst about all of them, to assume the worst about everyone?

There are people, some liberal and some conservative, who are racists... should we just assume that everyone is until proven otherwise?

I mean, really, how can we tell given the stealth of those who are?

WomanHonorThyself said...

we are way too naiive about thsi horrificly anti Christian and anti semitic ideology Z..look at the countries ruled by them....horror upon horror. Have a great one my friend :-)

Thomas Jefferson said...

Mooooooooooo-ch-Hell Ubunga is the missing link. Shes a she-boog just like that dike married to Mayor NeGrasio

JonBerg said...

Dave...

"Jon, so it is best to assume the worst about all of them, to assume the worst about everyone?"

These are your words, not mine. I merely presented an interrogative which certainly didn't include "everyone". Please reread my comment and if [you] have a cogent answer, let's hear it.

Duckys here said...

I've met too many decent, generous Muslims to believe they are plotting to destroy us.
The mosque that the Marathon bombers attended expelled them for being extreme and no z, I don't believe the extremism is common.

But we will either continue with mistrust even if the evidence that Muslims in America have been very successful and have integrated about as well as we will allow.

Giving in to our fears and pulling a stunt like the asinine NYPD surveillance abuse (NYPD is at the center of so much fascist activity, why?) doesn't give Muslims much space.

Or we can continue with the Christian/Jew extermination meme. BBC published a good study about that number. Seems the overwhelming majority of cases called religious killings of Christians are happening in Congo (where we bear some responsibility since the killing of Lumumba) and don't involve Muslims at all. Other killings are political and the true number murdered for religious reasons isn't very large.

But our masters find it easier to suck us dry if we stay scared of the "other".

We all need to get out and mingle a little more. I'd actually like to have a beer with Ed. We may have more in common than we imagine.

Dave Miller said...

Jon, I assumed your question was somewhat rhetorical. It is unanswerable isn't it?

I was speaking more to the question than to you, thus a follow up question.

I have no idea how we know what is in a mans heart, absent some sort of overt behavioral action.

I'll never know if a man is racist unless his actions out him, just as I will never know if a Muslim is radical and hateful anymore than I would with a Christian or a Jew, unless their actions out them.

I guess I try to assume the best about someone until I see otherwise.

I am probably in the camp that says most people in the world are generally good people that want to live their lives and raise their kids in peace.

Are there people who want to attack people both literally and figuratively? Of course there are, and when i encounter them, I try to avoid them.

But I choose not to malign an entire group of people based on the actions of some in that group.

That's just me.

Sorry for any offense from my question earlier... none was intended...

Anonymous said...

From Z of GEEEZ:

Ducky, Do you read my posts or my comments? It would really help.
Also, I only published this video to show some of us that many muslims don't consider murder extreme. It would behoove you to watch the video.

Anybody who extrapolates from anything I have EVER EVER said that I hate or mistrust all muslims simply isn't ready this blog. But, you're sure here a lot.

Dave, you too. Did you listen to the video. My point is that there are SOME (do I REALLY have to be so detailed as to give a number or make sure I state "not all" every single time?), a LOT, who don't consider women sitting separately from men (including muslim women who agree with this, by the way) or stoning wrong, or killing for adultery wrong.

"I choose not to malign an entire group of people......that's just me"

I have never found you quite so patronizing or self- aggrandizing. I'm guessing you didn't read my post or comments, either, because I don't see ONE PERSON here who doesn't agree about that. No, that is not "just you," whether you pride yourself with that or not.

GAD>

Anonymous said...

From Z of Geeez;

Sorry to sound so angry; I'm not; it's more astonishment at being so seemingly purposefully misread and misquoted.
I really do get sick of people who just knee-jerk responses when all they have to do is really read and think about the post and the comments to see the truth.

I suppose that's why so many voted for Obama, come to think of it.

Bob said...

Z: I am just one of the faithful denizens of GeeeZ, and have been reading and commenting only a while. However, reading this particular article with the attendant comments, I am encouraged that you have assembled a great crew of readers and participants.

I can argue with Ducky and Dave all day long, and find their opinions are interesting and they matter. The interesting thing is that most of us discuss things from a base of morals and ideals, and do so intelligently.

Ducky said, "We all need to get out and mingle a little more. I'd actually like to have a beer with Ed. We may have more in common than we imagine".

I'll drink to that, and even buy a round or two. Unfortunately, Ducky has not invited me for a beer. I can drink to that, too.

JonBerg said...

Dave,

OK, let me put it this way. I would have a much greater comfort level with the totality of Muslims if I sensed that there was a greater, overt, disavowal of the thoughts and actions of the elements, within their domain, who threaten the well being of American society. Now, you can have the last word, as I'm finished with this issue, at least, for the time being.

Duckys here said...

@z -- I only published this video to show some of us that many muslims don't consider murder extreme.
--------
No kidding. We didn't know that?

It's an old video that's been around the hate sites.
I can't remember you ever publishing something that cast Islam in a good light and there are examples.

Robert Sinclair said...

It is next to impossible to have a conversation with people who are perpetually angry. It is an angry that drives them; they live for it. Personally, I would never invite someone like for an evening of conversation at my house because they are so rude, their behavior so extraordinarily socially deviant, that I’m afraid they would ruin the party.

On the topic, I suppose it is a mere convenience to some to forget what has happened in Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands, and France where citizens are afraid to leave their homes after dark, and women and men are afraid to enter a Middle Eastern neighborhood. The assaults, rapes, murders are epidemic … Yes, these are indeed a friendly, loving people.

Anonymous said...

From Z of Geeez:

Ducky, I don't know what 'hate sites' you visit, but I don't visit any, so I wouldn't know.

This video was sent to me via email and it's highly important because it shows something some of us don't want to admit; There's the speaker reminding their faithful (please listen to the video) that they're too big a group and too powerful for them to be sent out of a country and the more than implied input is "hey, we're not unusual to believe in killing for adultery, etc., we DO believe that, all of us do, and we're here to stay, whether they like it or not"

If you don't think that's what this guy's saying, you're wrong. And please don't continue to be naïve enough to really think none of this goes on in America. Perhaps in the towns were there are known terror camps?

I have very little good to say about islam, frankly, I find oppressive not having women sit with men and I find disgusting hundreds of men in only one mosque agreeing that adulterers should be stoned and killed.

However, you will remember me raving about Dr Zuhdi Jasser who I praised from the rooftops (after hearing him speak in person at a dinner I went to specifically to hear him), so you're wrong there again.

Robert...you are SO RIGHT...your reminder is a good one. I lived iN Paris for four years and experienced what you're talking about. Do you know that they build towns for workers near factories, and for non-working welfare residents, and the Arab towns are trashed so badly they have to close them down in the French suburbs? It's horrible. The people in Paris don't go anymore to the arrondissements of mostly muslims...not safe. But, they can avoid them. The sadder thing is that the suburbs even around Paris are now very dangerous at night.

The car burnings you all saw in the news a few years ago are newsworthy when they happen in Paris, but they're happening EVERY SINGLE NIGHT on a smaller basis, in the suburbs. All Arabs.

The saddest thing is we don't have muslims going into their homes and mosques and speaking against this...at least not in any meaningful measure.
In Germany, I know that Germans are being attacked, some killed, in the subway stations.....they can't get the perps because they do it in big groups and nobody knows who actually did the killing. The courts there are a joke..the muslims get off and give the finger, literally, to the families of the dead or maimed. I should share some of the emails I get from friends and family in Munich..it's horrifying. They're devastated, demoralized by their "justice" system and political correctness.
We are being overcome and we're sleeping. IF ONLY Muslims would turn this around.

Impertinent said...

@Z:
"they're devastated, demoralized by their "justice" system and political correctness."

Hard to believe that as proud, successful and independent the Germans are...they'd put up with their shit. Maybe it's time for them to get some sauce back? To save the Fatherland at least?

Z said...

Imp; I just don't understand it.
As in this country, the silly left is winning, Merkel or not.
They're SO stupid...the Germans I know are horrified by some of these court cases where the muslims win and (literally) give the finger on the steps of the courthouse.
They have signs, as they do in England, "We're taking over your country" and nobody's DOING anything at all because, gee, it's ok to say THAT, but don't EVER say "Muslims are wrong!"

it's UNBELIEVABLE. I could tell you story after story about Germany and what's happening there.
I guess OUR media's too scared to speak against (dare I say?) muslims, too, or it'd be a BIG story here.

Impertinent said...

@Z:

Given Germany's history...I'd hope they'd say enough and find someone with a spine that can shake things up. Hell...even the Dutch have had enough. How long is any country supposed to tolerate these maniac cultists and degenerates. And those lefty's...they'll the first to lose their heads because they know that they are not loyal and are spineless.

Mustang said...

I think the answer has much to do with the wholesale acceptance of that astounding notion that a person must always keep his or her opinions to themselves, lest they offend someone. Now, I think it is true that Europeans are generally more tolerant of fools, but this is only a recent and very disturbing trend here in America. Why do I think this is true? Population density … people who are scrunched upon one another have to work hard ignoring the poor behaviors of others. As an example, you will never find anyone more polite than the Japanese—but it is a mask. They essentially detest foreigners. I can’t say that I blame them.

IMpertinent said...

@Mustang:

"people who are scrunched upon one another have to work hard ignoring the poor behaviors of others..."


That must explain the entire psychosis of the NE...especially those poor prisoners of NY and NJ...the most densely populated state.

Where the air they breath comes from a starbucks cup of mud. And a toll booth.

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Kid said...

Z, Let's say there are 'moderate muslims'. I'd call them confused muslims or useful tools as the real islamists would see them.

Then let's say, as in England, moderate muslims begin being elected to congress/Parliament and eventually gain a majority, then true islamic muslims gain the majority and then those muslims dictate that the USA is under sharia law now. What would the moderate muslms do? Nada.

Resist? Who resisted over 900 executie orders by the racist, anti-American, muslim activist oBAMa ?
Most presidents have less than 10 executive orders over 8 years.

Kid said...

Sam, They've declared war against anyone who isn't islam

Kid said...

The Koran says it is not only acceptable but encourages deception to the infidels. That's me btw. Head Infidel.

Duckys here said...

@ IMP --- That must explain the entire psychosis of the NE...especially those poor prisoners of NY and NJ...the most densely populated state.
Where the air they breath comes from a starbucks cup of mud. And a toll booth.
--------------
I thought NE meant New England. It gets pretty cramped down Maine.

The air I breathe comes from a double espresso and a chocolate connolo at the Cafe Vittoria

Impertinent said...

@Duck:

NE has always been northeast to me...New England is such an anachronism, isn't it?

And to me it tells me the state of the real England today!

Besides....NY & NJ aren't a part of the country you're referring to.

"The air I breathe comes from a double espresso and a chocolate connolo at the Cafe Vittoria.."

Funny...not a Pinot Grigio?

Elmers Brother said...

The problem with the left is that they'll secularize us into a life of no meaning or an uber pluralistic society of no reason. Either is poison.

Anonymous said...

Naturally there are those in Islam that do not embrace the fundamentalist ideology of the "radicals." But, they do nothing to change Islam from its fundamentalists roots either and are therefore no help. And this for obvious reasons. They prefer not to be killed by the radicals. They also see the radicals as the "true believers" that they, themselves, are not and thereby respect the radicals for their commitment and faith.
Michael G. Miller
Anderson IN