Saturday, February 22, 2014

What do you think?



I have seen several hypotheticals surrounding the events in Ukraine.  One essayist believes that the USA is behind this whole thing, although his argument was pretty weak.  So let’s hear from our readers: what do you think is REALLY going on here?

31 comments:

Speedy G said...

Ukraine???

As we speak, the illegitimate Maduro government is importing Cubans and Columbians to attack and oppress the Venezuelan people.

The silence of the American MSM is deafening!

Speedy G said...

Venezuela is NOT in Russia's back yard. It's in OURS!

Ed Bonderenka said...

The Ukraine was starved by Stalin (interpreted by Ukrainians as Russia). The Holodomor.
There has been an anti-Russian movement for years in the Ukraine.
Solzhenitsyn referred to it in The Gulag Archipelago when he described the lengths the KGB would go to in killing the leaders of this movement (among them a prominent Bonderenko).
And as in most cultures (even ours), there are those who would settle for accommodation with power.
The Ukraine is a fertile breadbasket and a source of mineral riches, coal, gas, metals, etc.
Why is she in debt?
Years under a mismanaged communist government can do that to you.
Like it's doing to us.

Always On Watch said...

I don't know if this if reliable information (I have my doubts), but I'm tossing it in before I dash out to work...Coup in Western Ukraine: the Arab Spring unleashed in Europe (dated January 27, 2013).

Always On Watch said...

Erratum: the above link is dated 27 January 2014.

Sorry about that. In a hurry!

Duckys here said...

Ukraine has long been divided into Russian and Ukrainian speakers. That schism is nothing new.

The Ukrainian speaking western Ukraine favored entry into the EU and the EU offered deal which would have required cutting economic ties with Russia. The idiots.

Well eastern Ukraine and Putin weren't going to stand for that.

So into this mix you throw in hard core fascist nationalists who don't have any use for either side and they stir things up,

Whether Ukrainians are subject to the tender ministrations of EU (a pox on them) austerity or the oligarch's corruption they lose.

It's a tragic situation and people went to the square knowing they might die. And it isn't over.

Thersites said...

A word from the people of Ukraine

Thersites said...

EU offered deal which would have required cutting economic ties with Russia.

Total B.S.!

Thersites said...

Putin wants to create his own "Eurasian" exclusive economic union.

Thersites said...

Sometimes, ducky, you've been a commie stooge for so long that you can't help yourself from trying to be a useful idiot. :(

Thersites said...

Capitalism w/Asian values means capitalism w/o democracy and/or freedom!

The world doesn't need another China.

Duckys here said...

....and it's much more likely that the U.S. is making mischief in Venezuela than Ukraine.

sue hanes said...

Z - Now that the president is gone hopfully things will settle down. I just wish he would have left sooner and saved some lives.

Anonymous said...

Do you want to find out what is going on? Then follow the money. The people who are funding the Ukraine protests are George Soros, USAID, National Endowment for Democracy, Freedom House and several other US NGOs.

~Robert Sinclair

Ed Bonderenka said...

@Ducky:
...and it's much more likely that the U.S. is making mischief in Venezuela than Ukraine.
And neither is likely.
It would have to be a rogue operation under this navel-gazing administration.
bored

viburnum said...

"Well eastern Ukraine and Putin weren't going to stand for that."

And Putin gets a say in the affairs of a neighboring country? Why?

If we were behind the protests in Venezuela you'd be positively apoplectic.

Thersites said...

....and it's much more likely that the U.S. is making mischief in Venezuela than Ukraine.

So the USA are the ones shipping Cubans and FARC /ELN Columbian guerillas into Venezuela and filling up all the Military hotels?

Who knew?

Duckys here said...

And Putin gets a say in the affairs of a neighboring country? Why?

--------
Because a great deal of the eastern Ukraine believes its future is in alliance with Russia and when the EU (freaking angels, right?) tries to drive a wedge into that relationship there is going to be trouble.

None of this tragedy addresses the question of how Ukraine can free itself from the oligarchs.

Baysider said...

They're returning to type. We here, in the tradition of Locke, Montesquieu, and Mason, cannot fathom the totalitarian impulse that is virtually written into the DNA of this culture. With a history of despotic and oligarchical rule, one foot in the west, and one foot in the east, they do not frame their thinking through the same lens.

I watched the heartbreaking video Thersites posted. There is no doubt of a yearning to get the monkey off their back. There is a history of 'turning to the west' from Varangian rule (who the Mongols pretty much took care of) to Peter the Great. But it just never comes off.

Thersites said...

None of this tragedy addresses the question of how Ukraine can free itself from the oligarchs.

Putin and his Russian comrades aren't oligarch's? Who knew?

The point is, duckman, whether your oligarch's give you a vote, or just ship your kids off to the gulags like so much chopped liver.

Thersites said...

Do you prefer Russian or German Pillars of Society, ducky?

Mustang said...

@ Baysider

I would urge you to consider Thersites video link in terms of what is getting ready to happen here in the USA. Consider the militarization going on within state, county, and local police departments. Consider the Department of Homeland Security Police Agency … which are wearing blue uniforms, but are really acting like brown shirts—as Obama promised. They are as well funded as the Armed Forces.

Consider too the weapons these police agencies are purchasing, the drones they are allocating, the tanks and armored vehicles they are buying, Ask yourself, to what purpose do they use taxpayer funds to purchase such equipment? Today it is Ukraine; tomorrow, it could be any state in this country. And while the once patriotic (to protect and serve) police turned fascist dogs beat our people to death, those of us in another state will be flipping the remote looking for the Honey Boo Boo channel.

The lady asks for help, but we must wonder, if she is addressing her concern to the United States, does she not understand what has happened here in the once land of the free? We might have been able to help once upon a time, but no longer; our president and his foreign policy is a joke. Putin looks at Obama, and the United States, and laughs. Yep … hope and change.

Waylon said...

I think the current problems in Ukraine are related in many ways to the ongoing problems in the Middle East (aka The Arab Spring). It appears that the world is moving inexorably toward another World War, which would be a continuation of what was begun in 1914 with WWI. WWII was the second stage. WWIII, if this is what it turns out to be, will be worse than ever before.

It's almost impossible to discern the truth of the current events as reported in the media today. I see every report demonizing Russia and Putin while asserting the "radicals" are fighting against the oppressive tyranny to be imposed by Putina and Russia. Almaost nothing is mentioned here about who or what is the real power behind the obvious destabilazation of the country. Where are these people from and is there foreign support for them? Where does it come from?

Even if there is credible evidence that the country desires to become part of a European block or Eurpoean Union, isn't that merely joining another block rather than being independent?

I suppose it's also about discovereing if this version of Russia and Putin arte different from the old boys network of the former USSR. Personally, I beleive that Putin is a better man than Gorbachev, who is plugged deeply into the elitist traitors of the West, imposing enslavement to Globalism and Climate Change.

Listen carefully to thedear leader and his evil henchman, John Kerry, as the demonization continues by labelling disagreement with imposed global slavery as being "Flat Earth" thinking.

Waylon said...

Another thing worth remembering in the context of Russia: Communism—Marxism, Leninism, and Stalinism was imposed on the country. Not popularly accepted by the people themselves. Imposed from the outside, too. Lenin was imported into the country from Switzerland. Trotsky from the good ol' USA.

People would be further ahead to find the truth in History rather than swallowing the swill furnished by the lying media today.

viburnum said...

@ Thersitese

" We have this freedom inside out hearts. We have this freedom inside our minds. And now we ask you to help us build this freedom inside our country."

How can anyone say no?

Baysider said...

@ Mustamg
I would urge you to consider Thersites video link in terms of what is getting ready to happen here in the USA.
----------
Could think of nothing but. (Flashback to Chicago '68 for preview.) DHS buys a gizillion rounds of hollowpoint for target shooting?

BTW, Thersites posted a powerful link about 2 days ago on the topic of racial destablization and knockout that taps into this thread of political manipulation and violence.

Anonymous said...

From Z of Geeeez (came in to work this afternoon so I could see what's happening on my blog! Am getting a new computer and should be up in a little over a week :-(...at least it's almost ordered!)

Sue, I wish your comment was addressing Obama, but, alas... :-)

Venezuela: AGAINST SOCIALISM. Think OUR GOV'T is fueling THAT? (when it's pushing it HERE? ) Smile!

Please, folks, take personal experience as the best way to tell: My stepdaughter was in Venezuela MANY times only about 2 years ago with Venezuelan young entrepreneurs who despise Chavez because of all he was doing to block entrepreunership; I figured they had an axe to grind so I asked her to very subtly and carefully ask a waitress and a cab driver (you don't ask questions like this blatantly in those countries!!) ...do you like Chavez' agenda?
THEY HATE HIM, too.
Those red shirts are not the majority of the Venezuelan people...
I'm not at all surprised they're rioting.

Ukraine: It's been like this for years; the people are just now finally getting really SICK of dictatorship ...think the woman will take over again? I DO.

Robert Sinclair; WHY would SOROS fan those fires in the Ukraine???

Anonymous said...

From Z again:

I WANT TO THANK MUSTANG YET AGAIN AND PUBLICLY FOR HIS AMAZING KINDNESS AND FAITHFULNESS TO ME AND MY BLOG BY KEEPING POSTS UP EVERY DAY WHILE I CAN'T GET INTO MY COMPUTER FROM HOME......WHICH IS WHY I'M COMMENTING AS 'ANONYMOUS,' OF COURSE.

HOW MANY FRIENDS WOULD DO THIS PLUS RUN HIS OWN TWO FANTASTIC BLOGS (ON MY SIDEBAR...FIX BAYONES AND A MONTPELIER VIEW)??

AND THE LOYALTY OF ALL OF YOU IS GRATIFYING AND HUMBLING.

THANKS, EVERYBODY....XXX Z

Anonymous said...

Z

Some have accused Soros of funding the events in Ukraine in pursuit of his Open Society Foundation. Christopher Stone denies it, of course. Open Society did the same kind of mischief in Libya, in league with Barack Obama (of course).

Individuals making this charge include Aleksandr Yefremov of the Ukrainian Parliament. He echoes the warning of now-restored Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko in 2008. Ukraine’s state security service has said that it has been monitoring Soros' Open Society Foundation since 2010.

-Robert Sinclair

Sam Huntington said...

Readers may find this as a useful primer.

Baysider said...

Okay, Z. I know this is mostly off topic. But not entirely. :)

While we're talking about despots, oligarchs and the ilk ... do we remember that today is the day we [used to] celebrate the Cincinnatus of his age, George Washington? Just pausing for a moment to reflect on how fortunate we were to have this man and his line of thinking built into our DNA. Russia had Catherine the Great (remember her Potemkin villages?)... and we had George. What a blessing!