Friday, August 16, 2013

Evolution vs God............the slam down

Very good stuff here........please watch toward the end as the eyes of the younger people soften and they admit they're curious;  far more than they'd been at first.  It's lovely.  It's hopeful.
Let's add this:  "To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree."  Darwin.


Anonymous said...

Not to argue one way or the other, i think the post could have done very well without this kind of "quote mining" ... in no way, it would have dtracted from the point it is trying to make. Just saying.

The entire quote:

To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree. Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real.

[Darwin. Origin of Species]

Joe said...

My God is so powerful he created life with theability to adapt and improve over time. I have never understood why God and evolution are incompatible.

Sam Huntington said...

In response to Anonymous, let me say that whenever a writer lacks the capacity for brevity, then it behooves others —as a public service, to glean out the important parts. Most of us appreciate this effort.

There are credible studies on human environmental adaptation; there are none about evolution. The reason for this is quite simple: scientific hypotheses regarding evolution cannot be tested, or measured. Without that, there can be no scientific hypothesis.

The video is an excellent presentation.

Z said...

Joe, great, isn't it? I've never understood why some pose it as incompatible, either.

Sam, thanks. That's exactly right.
And thanks for appreciating the effort!
I think it's an excellent presentation, too.

It's worth watching just for those very bright young peoples' reactions to having the light bulb turned on. Some were so resistant until the interviewer kept making points; it's as if they'd never been taught to even consider two sides. And then the UCLA atheist professor insists "any prof can teach anything"...would that they would TEACH and not INDOCTRINATE..but.......we've let that go on for a very long time and there seems to be no shame about the resistance to broad and open thinking, even by educators. Or, perhaps, particularly by educators?

Mustang said...

What I find amazing is that these college professors are incredibly hypocritical. They rebuff the notion of intelligent design, while pushing forward a concept that no real scientist can support. Worse, they perpetuate this myth with a smug attitude, as if they are somehow intellectually superior to the believer. Having faith in God, or placing that faith in science still involves faith. Yes, Z … you are right. This isn’t education, it is indoctrination. The students you see in this film are the victims of the sustainability experiment since they were in grade school. It was nice to see the light come on …

Shaw Kenawe, The Wicked Witch of the Blogsphere! said...

You may need to read some of these:

The Evolutionary Dynamics of a Rapidly Mutating Virus within and between Hosts: The Case of Hepatitis C Virus

Viral Evolution

More examples of evolution in action.

Ten Astounding Cases of Modern Evolution and Adaptation

"[As] with Christians or Jews, there is no consensus or 'official' opinion on evolution among Muslims. However, some of them say that the theory is a cultural threat that acts as a force in favor of atheism, says Hampshire College’s Salman Hameed in an essay in the Dec. 12 issue of the journal Science. This is the same beef that some Christians have with evolution."

Take pride in knowing that you and the majority of Third World Islamists continue to deny that Evolution is real.

Robert Sinclair said...

Mutation isn’t evolution; it’s adaptation. But nice try.

Jim at Asylum Watch said...

I agree with Joe!

Jim at Asylum Watch said...

I agree with Joe!

Z said...

thanks, Mustang...I'm glad you 'got' that 'light,' too. Their eyes actually softened. There's something in all of us which can be touched. Well, almost all of us.

Robert...exactly right. Some people are ALL for 'both sides of the issue' as long as their side's the one they insist is right!

And, of course, the point also includes that changes in any species due to ANYTHING, doesn't mean God isn't involved.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

I believe in evolution, but do not discount that the process was intelligently designed.

My god imbued us with free will and intellectual curiosity. Sadly, many of us have discarded those gifts in favor of blind dogma.

Sam Huntington said...

Shaw has never come to terms with her internal suffering. For example, without realizing it, Shaw has insulted Islam … and we all know what happens to people who insult Islam. She’s crying out for punishment. Unconsciously, of course. So, if any orthodox Muslims are reading, I’d like them to know that Shaw lives in the froufrou district of Boston, Massachusetts. Allah Akbar!

Shaw Kenawe, The Wicked Witch of the Blogsphere! said...

"Robert Sinclair said...
Mutation isn’t evolution; it’s adaptation. But nice try.

August 16, 2013 at 7:19 AM"

DNA and Mutations
by the Understanding Evolution team

A mutation is a change in DNA, the hereditary material of life. An organism's DNA affects how it looks, how it behaves, and its physiology. So a change in an organism's DNA can cause changes in all aspects of its life.

Mutations are essential to evolution; they are the raw material of genetic variation. Without mutation, evolution could not occur.

Mutations are the Raw Material of Evolution

The Most Spectacular Mutation in Recent Human History

Anonymous said...

The Progressive Lynch Mob, and race hustlers like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton as well as several bloggers on these boards such as Shaw Keneaw and MalCum Brandon, Jerry the Creature and Libermann., Ducky etc.Athe the Hypocrites of the blogisphere. And who are contributors to the destruction of the public career of Paula Deen
It doesn't matter if a white person supports a black person for president" allow me to say I wouldn’t have elected Obama and much more reelect him and though, Democraps
elected him ONLY because he was a Black man....
However, I would have voted blindfolded for HERMAN CAIN over that Muslim Commie.
I don’t particularly care if these idiots stand on the streets with megaphones shouting their hatred towards the Tea Party as these Progressives do. These people are fueled with racism and lies, and everyone is aware if it.
My mother used to say that the way you make your bed is the way you will sleep, which goes for the American people
It wasn't enough Obamba's 1st term, then it went and gave him a 2nd opportunity and GOD only knows what lies in storage for all us at the hands of this apparent "Sorcerer Apprentice" but with a sinister agenda that has been showing from the beginning but which the parasites we sent to Congress have been too damned dumb to spot and act accordingly, proven by the obstructionist in chief
There are several terms which describe the left, "liberals," and "progressives" and that is liars, hypocrites, and disgusting unpatriotic Americans, and Communists.

Anonymous said...

From Z at work:

CI..I think it's "blind dogma" to teach only one way of looking at anything. made your point and it stands, thanks.

Sam, :-)

Anonymous...sadly, people believe whatever is easier to swallow.

Rottweiler said...

Can't wait to see how the Democrats respond to this latest Obama bombshell about mounting chaos in Egypt and his his brotherhood buddies...
After watching the libs these boards absolutely lose their fuck'n minds while trying to scramble for any lie which would spin the indisputable truth - it should be entertaining as hell to watch them chase their tails over this bombshell:

Barack Obama could not sit in the situation room during the operation to kill Osama Bin Laden. During the most important event in his presidency, he went to another room to play cards with a few members of his staff.

Un-fucking-believable. What kind of leader leaves the room during something that crucial? The man crows about "killing Bin Laden" and not only was it NOT him (it was the Seals), but he couldn't even be bothered to sit through the operation to provide the leadership which is his responsibility. Apparently he found doing his job "too boring" and was instead more consumed by a fascinating game of Spades. Then again, as one very bright American already stated, maybe Obama couldn't sit through it all because of an internal conflict - being that he hates America and is a Muslim and all. Maybe Spades was a way to try to get his mind off of his inner turmoil?

Anonymous said...

And 99% of mutations are fatal to the animal

FreeThinke said...

Walt Whitman who is neither my favorite poet, nor my favorite character, nevertheless came up with my very favorite motto:


When one thinks of the myriad ways Whitman's statement may apply -- and the myriad disparate factions to whom it may apply -- its profundity becomes increasingly apparent.

Elmers Brother said...

Robert Sinclair said...

I appreciate CI’s statement of faith; however, not sure why he felt compelled to add the statement about blind dogma. Dogma means to think, to suppose, to imagine. Blind dogma, therefore, appears impossible. Perhaps he meant to suggest “blind acceptance,” much like scientists to repudiate intelligent design.

FreeThinke said...

Joe said...

"My God is so powerful he created life with theability to adapt and improve over time. I have never understood why God and evolution are incompatible."

I couldn't agree more, except for one thing, Joe. He is not "your" God, or "my" God, or "their" God.

He is simply GOD -- the one and only. He governs the Universe and Whatever May Lie Beyond, WHETHER "we" choose to recognize Him or not.

He governs Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, "Madonna," Vladimir Putin, Pope Francis, The Muslim Botherhood, and even Barack Hussein Obama and The Wicked Witch of the Blogosphere :-) -- whether THEY choose to recognize His Presence or not.

He works in mysterious ways, indeed. And many of us who like to think we understand Him may in truth be as far from Him as Nidal Hassan, Karl Marx or Vlad the Impaler.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

Robert Sinclair - "I appreciate CI’s statement of faith; however, not sure why he felt compelled to add the statement about blind dogma. Dogma means to think, to suppose, to imagine. Blind dogma, therefore, appears impossible."

No, I meant Dogma, per Merriam-Webster:

a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet

b : a code of such tenets

c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds

Always On Watch said...

Belief in evolution (from the video, fairly early on): "I believe that there are connections out there that we haven't found yet."

Clearly, that statement is a statement of faith -- albeit not faith in a Creator. It's faith in the theory of evolution.

Duckys here said...

Seems important to realize that evolution is not in conflict with God.

It is in conflict with the Old Testament but most all of science and the historical record is.

Two different issues.

Really? said...

Muslims are Killing other Muslims in Egypt and in Syria as well as more of our troops and this week it has escalated because Obummer and the demoncrats are either sitting on their hands or going on another freaken Vacation,, playing Golf and Basketball and going to concerts and spending Millions of our dollars every freaken day on Air Force One going Martha’s Vineyard, with God only know how many people and how many plans. It costs MILLIONS every day for these trips!!! That money is MINE and YOURS! And you stupid stupid sheep on the left you think it’s fine and dandy. After all Bush did it too. REALLY?
Obummer is a Liar and so is Hillary, and those Freaken idiots who are running for office in New York City. All this and people are spewing his rhetoric and end up dividing the country more by their expressing their hate towards the Right! And in all this they have the gall to call our party IGNORANT??? The day Liberals see the Truth, they will become Republicans!!! I give Obummer 6 more months before he's more hated than Bush ever was!

And all you pansy ass liberals who think it’s a joke! Where does it stop? I was talking about a National Day of Mourning and us Republicans and any other American who feels robbed by the system wearing BLACK CLOTHES on this day!!! Ohhh so I am such a bad person because I do not respect a Lying Liberal or a whole bunch of them now in charge? I could give a rats ass that Obummer is Black! He was born a Muslim! And don’t try to tell me anything differently. But I feel the same way about him as a person as I do about Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Harry Reid and Joe Biden! I despise them all equally regardless of race, sex, age, fatness, ugliness or religion!!! They are all lying liberal tax and spend bastards who are going to ruin our country! Read below. You get what you vote for!!! And when the Terrorists strike our shores and kill your friends or families, remember George W. Bush kept us all safe for 7 years!!!

Plus Blacks and Liberals should quit the crying, it’s getting to be boring. . Blacks have plenty of welfare, a WHOLE Month, a National Holiday and now people in every major office held in Obamarica including the TOP JOB, President!!! They sell the most drugs and have the most people in US Prisons!* Blacks can no longer have any griefs against the man. The MAN is now BLACK!!! No more excuses PERIOD!!! Tell me the day that Native Americans have as a holiday? The Month? The Offices they hold? Hmmmmm, and blacks seriously want Reparations? I'd like to see them build their own houses out of mud and live with dirt floors on land no one else would live and kill their own food when they can find it and still not be allowed in stores or restaurants because of the color of our skin! Seems Blacks have it pretty good!!! They have a Black man in the highest office in the USA.
If you seriously think I am a racist, then I would have to seriously think you are retarded! See how that works? Really!

sue hanes said...

Z - I admit to not watching the video but I'd like to say that between Evolution and God - I choose God.

FreeThinke said...

Whenever I see boilerplate I just SKIP it.

Always On Watch said...

Commenter "Really?" is a drive-by spammer. The same comment appeared at my site.

Shaw Kenawe, The Wicked Witch of the Blogsphere! said...

Evolution is a fact. The mechanism of how it works is the theory,

"Scientific understanding requires both facts and theories that can explain those facts in a coherent manner. Evolution, in this context, is both a fact and a theory. It is an incontrovertible fact that organisms have changed, or evolved, during the history of life on Earth. And biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major patterns of change.

In everyday usage, "theory" often refers to a hunch or a speculation. When people say, "I have a theory about why that happened," they are often drawing a conclusion based on fragmentary or inconclusive evidence.

The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence.

Many scientific theories are so well-established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). Like these other foundational scientific theories, the theory of evolution is supported by so many observations and confirming experiments that scientists are confident that the basic components of the theory will not be overturned by new evidence. However, like all scientific theories, the theory of evolution is subject to continuing refinement as new areas of science emerge or as new technologies enable observations and experiments that were not possible previously."

People can believe, if they wish, that God is behind the mechanism that drives Evolution, but that does not make it a fact. That's a belief.

Evolution is a fact.

"In science, a 'fact' typically refers to an observation, measurement, or other form of evidence that can be expected to occur the same way under similar circumstances. However, scientists also use the term 'fact' to refer to a scientific explanation that has been tested and confirmed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing it or looking for additional examples. In that respect, the past and continuing occurrence of evolution is a scientific fact. Because the evidence supporting it is so strong, scientists no longer question whether biological evolution has occurred and is continuing to occur. Instead, they investigate the mechanisms of evolution, how rapidly evolution can take place, and related questions."

Duckys here said...

Obama likes Spades, anonymous?

Did you make a joke?

Louis H. said...

Il n'ya pas de théorie sans une hypothèse. Il ne peut y avoir aucune hypothèse à une explication proposée si le résultat escompté ne peut être testée et répété. C'est la norme de la communauté scientifique, pas le mien. La déclaration semble ridicule: l'évolution est un fait, mais nous ne pouvons pas prouver la théorie? Est-ce même une proposition logique?

Shaw Kenawe, The Wicked Witch of the Blogsphere! said...

Je ne peux pas vous aider monsieur. Prenez un cours dans la science de base pour trouver votre réponse.

Just My Opinion said...

MS. SHAW, Vous êtes plein de merde

Louis H. said...

Je ne peux pas vous madame aider, prendre un cours de logique.

Duckys here said...

... I’d like them to know that Shaw lives in the froufrou district of Boston, Massachusetts

Hope you enjoy the fisherman's feast, Shaw.

They are so jealous.

But watch out, you may run into some hijab wearing women pushing strollers and enjoying the seafood.

Rita said...

I agree with Joe especially regarding the notion that the overall theory of evolution does not necessarily rule out creationism. I believe the earth and all the universe and life did take millions of years. I see no evidence that rules out that God created it all.

The video is fascinating. I found it interesting that not one of them could cite the evidence of evolution from one kind of species to another. Only the adaptation of the species. Excellent point.

Obviously there is adaption. I remember years ago a documentary of he Doma tribe who have feet that are more web like than normal feet. There is debate as to why, but they have never had any bird offspring.

Kid said...

What created the universe? Big Bang? What caused That? Where did that material come from? What caused it all to compress into a singularity, so small as to not even be see-able, even if one could see without a universe available in the first place.

Until someone can answer these questions...

"To make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." - Somebody

Duckys here said...

Well kidd, we probably aren't going to know in our lifetime.

I think your heading towards pantheism though.

TS/WS said...

I have yet to meet a REAL atheism founded individual.
Dagon-the god of half man and half fish; the god of evolution.
It's all religion.
The winner over the masses is the one who conveniences by force of indoctrination of a view point from believers who come from a soft base of faith easily persuaded by weak interpretation with more theory than the soft base faith can digest, with the media throwing it at them from more angles.
While the believers of the solid rock foundation are not so easily fooled by these snake oil salesmen with their reptilian masters pushing the 'replacement theology'. In other words the strong believers of the Yahueh, can smell a rat.
The left is just trying to change one religion for another by means of multiple angles of course unidentifiable bullying ie... you must believe the science. We have seen how the facts were skewed with the global warming so much they had to change it to climate change-they don't stop until there are more and more who give them the benefit of doubt that turns into a law that forces more and more to bow down to their way of thinking---by force - the best example is evolution is forced on the children through the left's Gov Edu System, and, Creation is NOT ALLOWED!

Rita said...

Kid: I love it when you post the beautiful pictures of the universe that are posted in the NASA site.

I took a Bible class with a couple of scientists. They both said they find their work fascinating because it only firmed up their faith rather than contradicted it.

Imagine how exciting that work must be.

Kid said...

Rita, Geeeeez, thanks. I slowed down because I thought people were bored with it. I'll continue then.
I love big picture. One has to have big picture imo, otherwise one starts thinking They are the center of the universe ;-)

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

HOW can you argue with Albert..

Rita said...

Hard to be bored with images we now have available of God's gorgeous creation.

It is amazing to me those that would rather believe all of this just happened from some kind of freak accident from nothingness. That's some pretty ingenious freak accident.

What amazes me even more is the smugness and disdain atheist approach anyone with faith. As evidenced by some of the dissenting commenters here.

THEY KNOW they are right because of their "intellectual superiority". ;-)

Anonymous said...

There is no life, truth intelligence or substance in matter. All is infinite Mind and its infinite manifestation, for God is All in All.

Spirit is immortal truth. Matter is mortal error. Spirit is the real and eternal. Matter is the unreal and temporal.

Spirit is God and Man is His image and likeness, therefore Man is not material, he is spiritual."

Mary Baker Eddy

Duckys here said...

“God does not play dice with the universe”
--- Albert Einstein

Poor guy, he knew that Heisenberg had him by the short hairs.

Kid said...

Rita, I found that the more a person knows, the more they come to realize they Don't know. I agree of course on the universe.

Rita said...

Like they "know" how humans have created "global warming" even though we have only a few hundred years of temperature recordings and they admit the earth of several million year old.

So they "know" everything there is to know about temperature cycles from only a fraction of recorded temperatures.

They "know" everything there is to know.

Wasn't there a new mammal found this week?

I remember asking my college astronomy professor how they KNEW exactly what each planet was composed of.

He said because we know EVERY element and how it reacts. He didn't appreciate my saying we MAY know every element on EARTH, but how could we possibly know what element a might be on the other planets.

That was when Pluto was still a planet.

Kid said...

Rita, there was an article a month or so ago, Headline "Scientists are Baffled Earth is Getting Cooler While CO2 at Highest Levels"

Yea, their entire argument is based on CO2 levels, ie. "the hockey stick" that equated warming with CO2..

So, if the Earth is getting cooler now (note the Sun has just entered the 11 year solar Minimum phase) then their "Science" is DEFECTIVE.
It's INCORRECT. It's WRONG. It's the same as saying mixing snapple with Tide will create an explosion and then it doesn't. It's WRONG.
They should admit they are wrong and shut up. Do they? naw, they triple down on it. I saw an article a week ago talking about how the oceans will boil. hairy reid pronouncing that fires in Nevada were caused by climate change.
The worst part of this are the number of people who support this nonsense by voting for democrats.
We don't need to go house to house and ask people whether they support climate change is man caused and reversible.

We can simply count the number of democrat votes because if one votes for a democrat after being served 6 years of excrement on a plate like this, then they support it. That simple.

And that's the real tragedy. There will always be sociopathic POS's who seek to profit from the destruction of mankind; it is in the past, the majority wouldn't stand for such nonsense.

That's out the window now. That is the sea change. Unless this paradigm ( I hate the word too) is reversed, it is going to come down on us like a ton of bricks and soon.
Protect yourself and your assets because the hordes of ignorant will be willing to take it by force as it will be their last resort.
It can't continue like this. Whether that will be 5 years or 20 years I don't know. It won't be 40 years.

Rita said...

Profit? Profit? Don't talk about Profits, are you kidding me? profits?

I thought profit was what they were dead set against.

How much did Al Gore make from selling Current TV?

The sheeple will not open their eyes "climate change " is entirely about profits. As are the race baiters. An Love Story's Michael Moore.

And they think WE are ignorant.

Kid said...

Rita, Yes. Anyone who thinks the federal government is the answer...

I exclude some state and local governments as they actually do provide some value in non-democrat situations, but the feds are total disease now.

None of them are any good.

I view the federal government as a collection of mostly lawyers who failed in their chosen profession, became politicians and are now stealing money faster than is humanly possible. In their true form, they'd all be driving around in panel trucks with a sign on the side that says Free Candy and Puppies.


Rita said...

I still have hope for Mike Pence. Former Congressman, Indiana's current governor. Watch for him in 2016 or possibly 2020.

Kid said...

Rita, I don't claim to be right about anything. :)

Bob said...

Ducky said, "Seems important to realize that evolution is not in conflict with God. It is in conflict with the Old Testament but most all of science and the historical record is. "

I think the old quack-er is on to something, there. It seems to me, though, that a good bit of science was invented by God fearing people.

Old scientific ideas and discoveries are found to have been false. New hypotheses are substituted for the old, based on PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. The untold story is the uncertainty of every thing we discover, and everything we theorize.

When it comes to evolution, most of our physical evidence may or may not be evidence. For example, the progression of the evolution of man from Homo habalis to Homo sapiens can be a wild-ass guess, or a very astute observation. I don't know of any way to prove the linking of the animals to each other via the fossil record. In my opinion this evidence is on pretty shaky ground.

Where I think the biologists are getting it done is with genetics of which I know very little. It is apparently possible to trace genes a long way back, but I don't know of where there is a definite link between the genetics of a human and a fish, or a carrot, even though all our DNA structures are very close. I don't believe similar DNA means kinship.

Like Ducky said, the existence of evolution does not conflict with the existence of God.

I don't think the video was done very well. The host ventured into a strange area when he said that the existence of creation proves that there was a Creator. That is not a logical statement.

It would be more correct to say that if there were a Creator, then He made creation. But, there could have been creation without a Creator. If you were to believe a creation without a Creator, then you have to believe in something called, random.

I don't believe in random. I believe that there is a physical cause for everything physical, only we don't know everything we need to know to understand those causes. Otherwise, I would have to believe that a bunch of particles got together accidentally and decided to invent football, or whiskey, or mankind, one molecule at a time

Now we have dark matter and dark energy. The funny thing is that all this stuff is hypothesized because we don't have a clue about the real makeup of the universe, or universes if it comes to that. All that dark stuff is really a big fudge-factor to fill in some theoretical holes.

I think it is time for a beer.

Kid said...

The bottom line:

No sane person can dispute the struggle between good and evil on this rock, and isn't that 99.9% of what anyone's religious life consists of while they exist here in biological form?

What else do you need to know.

Pick a side and get on it.

Rita said...

Good points Bob.

So if we all have some kind of DNA genetics links, why do the anti-intelligent designers immediately discount that it might just make sense that the Creator would have included some type of compatibility between all types of living creatures on a shared earth?

Why WOULDN'T He have made us linked to other living species on the same planet?

Kid said...

Rita, I look at the DNA aspect as this:

We are all carbon based lifeforms, heavily reliant on water in each of our cells, breathing either oxygen (everything but plants) or CO2 (plants), so how much different can our DNA be?

As far as the monkey thing, yea we are very similar. FOr someone to try and make the case that monkey and human DNA is very similar is laughable to me.

And they still have not found not a single missing link. The last time I heard them try to claim they did, they found the top half of a skull, the found a bottom half a half mile away and called it Lucy.

If this concept were real, there should be thousands of years of half monkey and half human skeletons to be found. I'm not buying it.

If evolution is real and people are mistranslating the bible, then monkeys were created one way and humans another.

To clarify, I sure don't believe in the primordial ooze theory. My personal theoretical concepts of God are not orthodox, but they don't buy this stuff for sure.

Bob said...

Kid said, "So, if the Earth is getting cooler now (note the Sun has just entered the 11 year solar Minimum phase) then their "Science" is DEFECTIVE.It's INCORRECT."

Since I am a scientific type, I will say that climate science is not totally defective, but it is not right. I make this distinction because much of what has been done is good science. However, there are many assumptions baked into current climate science that are, well, assumptions.

The climate computer model people are the ones pushing all the catastrophic bad stuff, and this is where all the bad assumptions are employed. For example, they assume that for every doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere, the global temperature will increase somewhere between 2 to 5 degrees Centigrade. Most settle on something like 3.5 degrees. They call this parameter the climate sensitivity to CO2.

However, there is no empirical science that establishes the 3.5 degrees. Most skeptics like me believe it is less than 2 degrees, more like 1 to 1.5 degrees. This makes a huge difference in the model forecasts of climate.

Plus, the modelers guess at the effect of clouds and water vapor, giving water vapor a net positive effect on temperature. If this were true, we would have toasted to a crisp a long time ago. As we all know, clouds are a really big, natural air conditioner and the modelers will not concede this.

So, not all climate science is defective. They are just suffering from a lack of good science in the form of physical data to prove their point.

Duckys here said...

Since we proposed punctuated equilibria to explain trends, it is infuriating to be quoted again and again by creationists – whether through design or stupidity, I do not know – as admitting that the fossil record includes no transitional forms. The punctuations occur at the level of species; directional trends (on the staircase model) are rife at the higher level of transitions within major groups.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Kid said...

Bob, I'm not a scientist, and more important to the point, I don't believe the science exists to conclude climate conditions 5,10, 20, 50 years into the future. I simply don't believe it. Having said this, there is no way I'm going to come back and try to posit facts or theories that cause me to believe what I do because I've just invalidated anything I would say on a scientific basis.

I am a programmer, and therefore have some understanding of how prejudicial thoughts can make their way into any computer programs, so that's part of it too with the computer models.

I am relying on the fact that as you sort of indicate, the Earth is a self-correcting system, else we'd be in a non-livable environment already.

The Earth has gotten warmer and cooler all on its own over it's 4.5 billion yr lifespan and if it is getting warmer now, then I believe it is just a part of this cycle.

What I do know is China could care less about 'climate change'. They are pumping it out and have no plans to stop or ideas how to correct their pollution problem over the next several decades. Whatever we would do to try to counter-act that would be like spitting into space.

Therefore, all things considered, I believe the smartest course of action would be to prepare to Embrace the changes, without destroying economies or committing genocide by making foods unaffordable for many as we are currently doing.

The arrogance that we somehow know what climate model the Earth should be maintained at astounds me beyond belief regardless of the futility of even attempting to control it.

You mention clouds. We know what even a single ash spewing volcano can do. We've had scientists within 4 decades ago warning of another ice age and we have scientists now warning of it.

Climate change is agenda based and it's ultimate goal is for the parasitic countries to solidify a means and method to attach themsleves to the few remaining healthy hosts, the main one being the USA - to feed off.

Rita said...

Punctuated equilibrium. Hmmmm. That couldn't possibly be attributed to a Creator.

Noooooo. Of course not.

That couldn't be evidence of an intelligent design.

Because the "learned professors" say it can't be.

Those same ones that didn't know a different type of mammal existed until last week.

Well that proves it for me Duckyyyy. Gosh almighty (with a lower case a) I wish I was as smart as you.

Kid said...

PS - I heartily support renewable clean energy as I do believe burning coal and such does cause cancers and a variety of health problems.

I think for the forseable future, most forms of this energy will be supplemental, but could replace a heck of a lot of current energy sources.

I like molten salt through concentrated solar power, which is being built in Nevada now, and I believe we should have thorium based molten salt reactors on about every street corner. Extremely more safe than other reactors but don't produce weapons grade fuel which probably explains why we don't have any. There was a successful prototype built in the 60's.

The kids at MIT have even invented reactors that use waste from other reactors. So that doesn't need to be a problem either.

Yea, let's get rid of the coal and oil fired plants but at a rate that doesn't destroy the economy.

Rita said...

What are you saying, Kid?

Don't you realize that you are supposed to want to rape and spoil the earth?

You can't be a conservationist AND a right wing nut. It's not allowed because that might defeat the liberal mantra.

Now go back to your pre designated spot you escaped from. You might spoil their agenda.

Kid said...

Rita, I sure hope to. :)

Bob said...

Kid. I agree with you on pretty much all you said.

Blogger Rita said...
" What are you saying, Kid? Don't you realize that you are supposed to want to rape and spoil the earth? "

Rita: I had one of those genealogical DNA tests done, and I am 49% Scandinavian (Viking). Historically, my job is to rape and pillage. Somebody has to do it.

Bob said...

Kid: In my programming courses, I had to do OOPS stuff. One of the little ideas we all toyed with is that God is the ultimate programmer.

When it comes to life, He wrote a Class called, Life, and gave it attributes like a respiration system, a waste disposal system, a vascular system circulate stuff and cool the structure, and on and on. Then, He wrote other classes that inherited all those attributes, adding things as He went along, like scales for fish, fur for mammals, fangs for snakes, and larger or smaller brains as needed for the purpose.

As you know, with the properties of inheritance and polymorphism, and a whole lot of code, you can create a lot of different types of beings (classes). Well, sort of...

Kind of like the Matrix.

Kid said...

Thanks Bob, And interesting that you mention it kinda, but when I fantasize about Heaven, I see the people there inventing new forms of life with all the symbiotic requirements for long lasting healthy regeneration in their environment.

So who made the far lefties? Hmm

You look at the various forms of plant, animal and insect life and it both screams evolutionary development of the fittest as well as (here's the fantasy part) a starting design. Where did that come from. Animals and insects ready to go right our of the box, humans not so much (as an aside)

Little old Us are to the point we can read peoples thoughts now, implant false memories into mice brains and much more than that. There surely are people working on things and have already accomplished things we'll probably never know about.

We could actually get to the point, say 100? 1000? years from now, where we go to some planet, design various DNA models, create them and plant life forms there as experiments. I recently read where they are making artificial DNA and in that context, to be used as data storage medium.

Though I don't think we are alien experiments ourselves, but who knows. Again.., scientist says to God, we can create life out of nothing just using this dirt and God says, Whoa, get your own dirt.

Rita said...

Is that your pick up line Bob? :-)

Oh oh. Now I've done it. There will likely be some lefty come by and tell me I am waging war on women.

Elmers Brother said...

I would invite and challenge everyone to watch the debates between Dr. John Lennox (3 Phds) from Oxford and his debates with Richard Dawkins, it would surprise people like Duhkkky.....his lecture 7 days that changed the world illustrates the ignorance of those who think they know what people of faith believe