Wednesday, April 4, 2012

Should Santorum leave the race?

Gingrich did worse than Ron Paul in Wisconsin, did you see that?    People know he's broke and doesn't have the steam to keep going, I guess.  Who'd keep giving money to guys who aren't doing as well as Romney?

Do you think Santorum will close up shop?   And when do you think he'll do it?  The Pennsylvania primary is on April 24...think he'll quit before or have that his 'grand hurrah'?


AND, do you think Romney'd dream of picking Santorum as VP?

z

128 comments:

Joe said...

Romney is a much angrier man than he puts on. He is also interested in power.

Plus, there is something else I haven't quite been able to put my finger on that seems to tell me that he is not only the wrong man to put up against President BO (the child president), but that he CANNNOT beat him.

And I think that is by the design of whoever is doing the designing these days.

Santorum, with all his faults, is the only hope for conservatism, and that is almost no hope at all.

Enjoy the last days of the Constitutional Republic.

Always On Watch said...

think he'll quit before or have that his 'grand hurrah'?

No.

AND, do you think Romney'd dream of picking Santorum as VP?

No. Santorum has uttered certain statements that will make swing voters very wary of him. And he also has a porkulous and bridge-to-nowhere reputation. During primary season here in the area, TV ads have run pointing out the porkulous and the bridge to nowhere. Even if people don't vote in the primaries, they have seen those ads.

A few weeks ago, I'd have said that Romney cannot defeat BHO. But I've changed my mind on that: birth control mandate, Trayvon Martin statement, conspiratorial words to the Russian President, and now Obama's statement about how SCOTUS should rules in his favor are combining to turn off a lot of people from ever voting for Obama. Furthermore, if SCOTUS rules against Obama, he'll have speechifying tantrums that will not endear him to the electorate.

Joe said...

AOW: I hope you are right and I am wrong.

Ducky's here said...

No, at least say in for Pennsylvania. He has much more comedy to offer and may even push Governor Olympics furher right which helps Obummer.

Focus on the VP ad listen to Sister Sarah --- Allen West will guarantee an Obummer win.

I don't think the right knows how out of favor they are.

Silverfiddle said...

I hate to disagree with Joe, but Santorum ain't the man. They have already painted him as a rightwing religious kook, and the issues he dives into (complete with youtube video) just feeds into that image.

We're stuck.

Brooke said...

I'll say it once again: WTF is Ducky talking about?!?

Santorum is finished; he just won't admit it yet.

Sam Huntington said...

Silverfiddle has it right; we are stuck with Romney. This is the result of the American voter selecting form over substance for far too many years. If voters were wise, Romney would never have become a governor in the first place. We could suggest that Massachusetts voters haven’t demonstrated wisdom since the election of 1825, but that would ignore the reality of modern politics. In my state, we had this choice for governor: a moron and someone utterly destructive to free market capitalism. We went with the moron. It would be nice to have an election where we agonize over selecting one of two top-notch people.

As for Santorum, the people of his home state were able to recognize what a jerk he was and booted him out of the Senate. He may be lots of fun a happy hour, but I can’t imagine him as president any more than I can imagine Obama as president. This was something Santorum brought on himself; he is almost as radical as the Moslem extremists we detest.

Now, of course, Mrs. Santorum is attempting to spin his general unpopularity in the state of Pennsylvania. She said on the news the other day that even people who don’t agree with him politically appreciate his honesty. We already have an honest communist the White House; we don’t need more honestly destructive politicians at any level.

Ducky's here said...

It's simple Brooke.

The more that dipsticks like Santorum hang around they brand Republicans with the Tea Party label.

Talk up the Tea Baggers as much as possible and ensure Republicans are branded as insane extremists and religiously insane. Great strategy.

Obummer just sits back and laughs and the nation gets the lousy government it so richly deserves for being a collection of ignorant gits.

Bunkerville said...

I think it is time, sad that it may be. But he is a young man with a political future ahead of him. The force is not with him now, perhaps later. West for VP.

Brooke said...

"Tea Baggers."

Only leftists dare utter the term without being branded anti-gay!

So, admitting that Obama is a dictator, are you?

Ducky's here said...

No Brooke, I am saying that our political debate is controlled by extremists and corporotists take advantage of the vacuum.

Thersites said...

Why even hold ptrimaries? Let the million dollar SuperPac donors pool their campaign contributions and annoint their 2012, 2016 and 2020 candidates at Davos.

Thersites said...

Oh, wait, THAT is how we ended up with Romney....

Never mind.

Thersites said...

Who says that crony capitalism is dead? Not me.

Z said...

Joe, where do you get the 'angry' part of Romney?

I'll never forget Santorum urging Dems to vote in one of the open-primary states to give himself a boost; I thought that was despicable and showed something in him which completely turned me off; and there was something else, but I've forgotten it now. He had me for a while, but that was it.

While I think we are 'under someone else's design,' and I used to think that was silly conspiracy thinking, I do not anymore.


AOW, you don't think so?? You think Santorum will wait it out?

I've changed my mind about Romney's ability to beat Obama, too.
This morning, a liberal on CNN was waxing eloquent about R's speech just this morning, which was pretty good. They also said Ann R is a huge asset "people like her"..to the point that Suzanne Malveaux said she's met Ann and says she's terrific (I almost fell off my chair!)
I think Obama's losing this one on his own and SO wish this last week had happened the last week of October :-)

Ducky, I think you're so wrong about 'out of favor' that I'm seeing now how much you must read really far-left stuff because that's not what the polls are saying.

And, in the future, try to stop the ridiculous nicknames, or I will be deleting you. thanks. I'm sick and tired of it and I've asked you this many times before.

You whine about dishonest discourse on the blogs then come off with that? What do you expect?
We don't start that, YOU DO.

SF...and we have to make the best of it. I'd vote for a ham sandwich (as Brooke once famously said! ..I loved that, Brooke!) before I'd not vote for whoever the Rep. candidate is.

Sam....the last person I'd have picked for a 'fun happy hour' is Santorum! :-) But I agree with most of what you say.
As for Romney and Mass. ...that is in his favor. He didn't run for gov as a liberal...and he did win.

Thersites, that's certainly not how we ended up with Romney, but I did appreciate your first comment.


I'M SENSING CONSERVATIVES WILL WIN THIS ONE FOR THE SOCIALIST OBAMA AGAIN BECAUSE ROMNEY'S NOT CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH...
I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS.

THINK SCOTUS..>Romney will NOT nominate liberals to that, I assure you all.

Z said...

Thersites, I got this from your link which I don't think proves crony capitalism at all:

"When asked if a Republican in the White House would make a meaningful difference for American business, Chambers answered "yes" and said that he endorses businessman and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney for president.

"He's got the experience of being a prior governor; he's run large operations," said Chambers, who supported another Republican, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, in the 2008 presidential election. "He's a moderate and I think Americans want somebody who would be in the middle road."

Thankfully, most of us believe he's a bit more to the R than a moderate, and I absolutely don't agree that most Americans want somebody in the middle of the road, but I agree with the Cisco guy that Obama's not turned around sending jobs our of America; in fact his own JOBS CZAR, Immelt is it?, sent many jobs overseas.

I don't believe Romney will. At least he'll try to make this country more job-friendly.

sue hanes said...

Z - I don't think Rick Santorum
should leave the race. He has done too well to give up now.

And not only that - but I believe that he should and - probably will - stay for the
'GRAND HURRAH.'

Because he has stood up and hung in there - in spite of all some have said against him. It is no secret that I have said I DON'T WANT HIM AS PRESIDENT - but I do
respect that others have liked him - and I think he deserves a good last hurrah.

I hope Mitt Romney doesn't choose him as VP - but if he did - it would safegard the presidency for mitt - just the same way having Biden has saved it for Obama.

Just kidding. An attempt at humor.

: ]

Average American said...

It's just boiling down to another one of those elections where we have to "vote for the lesser of two evils." I am SOOOOOOOO DAMNED SICK of it. That said, rest assured that this old geezer will N E V E R vote for NObama--ever!

Z, you might want to catch my post from last night. You'll like it. Sorry for spamming so shamelessly, but I don't do it often, please forgive me.

Z said...

Sue, thanks...I don't think there's a ghost of a chance Romney would select Santorum, either.

Avg American...it's I who should apologize that I don't stop by your blog more often....I must do that.
THanks for 'spamming'...but it's NOT spamming, it's appreciated :-)

Z said...

Avg American, excellent video there..thanks.
And very good piece on Voter ID, too, below the video.

I urge my readers to go by and see it.

-FJ said...

A meaningful change for American business would be a non-corporate type... are you familiar with the terms "collectivism" when contrasted against "corporatism"? Did you know that corporations are largely responsible for the "socialism" mindset guiding many Americans today?

-FJ said...

Romney is a corporatist in the sense used as one opposed to "individualism".

-FJ said...

bad link above...

Z said...

FJ, let's hear how Romney's against individualism

FairWitness said...

I don't think Rick Santorum or Newt Gingrich need to get out of the race. Mitt Romney needs to keep honing his campaign skills if he's going to be the nominee and defeat Obama.

-FJ said...

Corportism is against individualism. Don't believe me, read the link.

Leticia said...

I hope Santorum sticks it out to the very end. He is our last true hope of conservatism and a man who would uphold and adhere to the constitution.

Always On Watch said...

Z,
Calling THIS to your attention.

-FJ said...

As Adam Smith pointed out in the Wealth of Nations, when ownership is separated from management (i.e. the actual production process required to obtain the capital), the latter will inevitably begin to neglect the interests of the former, creating dysfunction within the company.[37] Some maintain that recent events in corporate America may serve to reinforce Smith's warnings about the dangers of legally protected collectivist hierarchies.

-FJ said...

from the article 1 st linked...

Cisco is holding $43 billion overseas and not bringing it back to the U.S. because of the tax on repatriated profits. Chambers said this tax is 33% in the United States.

What percentage did Romney pay in taxes, 15%.?

Is Romney serving American interests? Or corporate interests? And who is backing him?

Reducing the corporate tax rate might bring a lot of money home... we have the highest rate in the world. Romney iscertainly more likely to do that than Obama, and it would spikemore investment in the USA... but I'd like to see individuals placed at an advantage over corporations... not visa versa. That would serve the cause of "individualism"...

-FJ said...

Japan just lowered their corporate tax rates making ours the world's highest. This happens in every downturn... nations compete for corporate investment... when what ALL nations should do is collectively RAISE corporate tax rates to force the money out of the corporate collective and intoindividual/ small business channels.

Jes sayin. Banks and corporations like Apple should NOT be sitting on hundreds of billions in cash.

Liberalmann said...

Santorum was finished long ago but this week he put the nail in his racist coffin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OaBNOomwD0

-FJ said...

Racist. Hardly. Only liberalmen can be racists.

Cactus Mark said...

He should stay in -- they all should stay in until the task is done.

This is as much a training process as a choosing process. The Mitt needs more experience on the stage and he's getting it here. The looney left wants it over specifically to ensure this experience is not learned. It's a good thing and I support it 100%.

Z said...

FJ, you do know that Romney paid through the nose while he was bringing in income, right?

Romney talks often about reducing corporate taxes so businesses will do better here.
Hopefully, once people are working and paying taxes, we can give individuals advantages, too.
All the Republicans do is talk about lowering our taxes, what's iffy about that with you?
They probably won't be able to because of the Left, but.. ..at least they understand individuals are more important than the STATE.

Z said...

AOW...the ABM (Anybody But Mitt) is putting themselves above America, aren't they. They care more about their tiny little conservative spectrum of what THEY think it is, and then they don't vote if the candidate doesn't exactly suit them. Or vote for the opponent just to "show America".
Well, we saw what happened to America, didn't we...and we still are.

THanks for that link..blogger's article's probably right...of course, it'll be then that Obama's thugs will say the electoral college doesn't count.

If we think the Bush/Gore thing was ugly, if Romney wins, we ain't seen NOTHIN' ..

(Imagine the left screeching that the FLA courts went for Bush as activists against Gore when I just learned the other day that there were mostly Dems on that court..? fascinating.)

Z said...

Cactus Mark...your reasons are good, but I think the ugliness that's occurred between Santorum and Romney and Gingrich hasn't been at ALL good for the party.

I can't stomach Gingrich, but I'd have absolutely ADORED a debate between him and Obama..Newt would have wiped the floors with him... man, it's not worth that to have Newt president, but I'd have sure loved to have seen that.
And to finally let Americans see how lame Obama is in every single way...such a puppet.
If we had a curious media, we'd know WHOSE puppet, too. We are all pretty sure, but the left's pulled Alinsky on us. It can't be SOROS, but mention the success of a Republican and all we hear from the left is KOCH BROS!
It's almost funny, but mostly pathetic..

Pris said...

It's clear to me, that Santorum can't make it. As for Romney, with every win, he get's more backing, which he needs, to keep up with Obama.

I think Pennsylvania will be Santorum's last hurrah, if indeed it is and even that is iffy at this point.

I'll support Romney, because I don't think he believes he can dictate as Obama does. This election is a make or break election for America, and I do believe Romney is an American in his heart. That's good enough for me!

It's time to quit wishing for someone else, and time to show our support for the winner.

Obama has lost his halo.
He's just another politician who will do anything to win, and that's no longer a secret.

So folks, let's get real and back our candidate with gusto. He can win!!



As for VP? I like Paul Ryan. He's bold, outspoken and has spine, unlike some other Republicans, and he's unafraid when it comes to pointing out Obama's many flaws. I like that!

Ticker said...

Saint Santorum is nothing more than a little rooster running around in the barnyard because he won the Iowa caucus which is meaningless and worthless. He is a loser, has been a loser and will certainly be a loser should he manage to strut his way into the nomination, which by the way is about as possible as pigs taking wings and flying, he would be a disaster against Obama. He lost his own seat by the largest margin of any congressman in history. He is not a conservative except on social issues which matter only to the religious far right.
The sooner the little "rooster " gets out of the barnyard the sooner the business of beating Obama can get underway with seriousness.
No , I am not and have not been a Romney supporter but it's down to this, He will be the nominiee and it's time to concentrate on one thing, Beat Obama. If the fringe religious right do the same as they did in 08 we will have Obama and the end of this nation in 12.
So all the Saint Santourum worshipers need to tell him to stop his ego trip and stop strutting and GET OUT.

Elmers Brother said...

Z I resent the characterization thhat if one doesn't like Romney that one is putting ourselves above America. Romney flip flopped more than John F'n Kerry nd I wouldn't vote for him either....the truth is none of these jokers R or D have the courage to do what's needed. The media has made it impossible for any decent candidates to enter the race and the establishment Republicans set us up to fail with McCain ver. 2.0. I'm tired of the whole process.

They Say/We Say said...

Breaking News. Texas is voting to have a Winner Take All.

And, Romney ain't the first choice.

This almost pushes everything toward a Brokered Convention. Most likely.
If then the Nominee maybe some one totally different than the current field.

Who would be the Out of Nowhere Candidate?

Joe Conservative said...

.. ..at least they understand individuals are more important than the STATE.

Sorry, but 2001-8 proved otherwise. I'm through with Bush corporatists. State sponsored large corporate Merchantilism is a disease. It's anti-capitalism. They're the flip side of the Obama coin.

lisa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
lisa said...

I agree with Pris we have to get behind Romney or we get Obama and go down the rabbit hole for sure.
How is it the dems can get behind this angry incompetent 100% and we can't rally around the obvious candidate?
This is our problem,we are never going to find the "perfect"candidate but we should be able to prop up Romney who has a much fatter resume' than Obummer who was propped up to the point of ridiculousness.
We need to stop being too cynical.
I would rather give the next 4 years to Romney than Obummer.
We have 2 choices and Obama cannot be one of them,tha't what we have to keep reminding ourselves of.

Sam Huntington said...

EB ... the political establishment wants you to grow tired. If they can convince you to stay home on Election Day, they win —every single time. And this is how we ended up with Bush, McCain, and Romney. We ended up with neo-communists because the “silent majority” remained silent for forty years.

It may take us a while to get our country back, but America is worth it … right? We need to turn out this entire Congress once more in order to get everyone’s attention. We need a new Speaker of the House who doesn’t have mental problems. That leaves out Pelosi and Boehner.

Don’t give up the ship!

Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Romney will take it.

I'd like to see Marco Rubio as VP or -- even more -- Tom McClintock as VP.

Gingrich would make a great cabinet appointment.

Ron Paul in charge of Treasury?

BZ

Big Fat Tio Mike said...

Anybody think Mitt would try to shake things up by picking Joel Osteen as VP?

Big Fat Tio Mike said...

chutzpa: noun, the ability to condemn Senator McCarthy as a witch-hunter while exposing imagined racism in people one doesn't like.

Z said...

Elbro,
I have to be a realist; I know it seems like the system's playing us and I know I'd not have necessarily picked Romney and never said I would.
What I'm saying is that not voting for him NOW, at this point, IS, no doubt about it, a vote for Obama...because Romney's not as conservative as we'd like.

SAM's right...we just have to get THIS AWFUL PRESIDENT out of there...that is ALL that matters right now....I've been saying this for a long time, too; vote Republican and hope we take the senate or the house again and that we'll see whoever the candidate is show more Republican colors than he has so far.

TS/WS....I don't know who'd be the candidate...any suggestions?


BFTM...great definition there!
And no, I don't think Osteen will make the cut :-)

JOE CONS: Do what you want to do...you and FJ are quite a pair :-)

BZ: McClintock would be good, wouldn't he. I was all for Rubio as VP, but not so much lately. Plus, I thought he'd attract Hispanic vote and then I saw Coulter explain really well that so few of them vote, and they're mostly in California and NY, anyway, which always go Democrat, so it's not a great reason to hope for Rubio. Romney'll probably take FLA, anyway


Look at all the disagreement today! If we lose, it'll be because Republicans can't get on board and support whoever we get...and we'll lose SO BIG TIME that the last 4 years will look like a walk in the park instead of Kremlin Sq., which it will more closely resemble in '12.

Priscilla...I'm with you, babe :-)

Chuck said...

Anyone pushing for a brokered convention is way off the mark. I understand the desire for a different candidate but if we have a brokered convention, there is no point in even bothering, Obama wins.

As to the question, I was watching Fox last night and there was good analysis that if Santorum stays in until Pennsylvania and loses, he blows his chance for the future. He would be better off leaving before, people would view him as putting up a good fight and have some respect for him.

Z said...

Chuck, thanks...I wanted to remind my readers of that, too, and forgot...
That makes sense to me; imagine Santorum running in PA and LOSING?
He'd never recover politically..never.

Isn't a brokered convention SORT OF like they used to be, with the smokey rooms and politicos picking somebody and then announcing it to the party??

Chuck said...

Z, the sad reality is that even primaries are not representative of the people. Realize that often only about 10% of voters participate.

They Say/We Say said...

It not me saying this.
Just passing along the news.
The Convention will be a shot across the bow of the Elites in the GOP.
Some one will be in the spot light after the news makes it's rounds.
But, one thing might hold up the vote for winner take all.
It has to be sent to the Justice Dept. for review.
Since GW passed the South Voter Rights for-more years. That means that the south has to have everything reviewed from the Justice Dept. That's why Texas Voter I.D. Bill is suspended for this election.

beakerkin said...

Duncy you can surrender your citizenship and vote for Hugo.

Lets do this slowly as this is an officer trained in law talking to a clown that trains second rate pornographers. For all your arrogance and bluster you grasp nothing of consequence.

Beamishomics 1001

Amazingly eurosocialist labotomies
have proven that you can still bankrupt an economy with negligible defense spending. Despite your idiotic claims the EU is a mess as the ponzi scam of making everything a benefit and a myriad of imperial government regulations stiffle growth. Confiscatory taxation reduces the incentive for productivity gains.

The EU is neither an economic or a moral apex for my country to apire to.

I can vote for Romney or whomever so long as it is not Ron Paul. Ron Paul is a joke foisted on the GOP by the Code Pinko traitors and the racist criminals of OWS.

Hugo will be gone soon. Who will be the next savior of Marx. How many commies lied to the American people Arthur Miller, Zinn were two people the left claimed were just outraged liberals.

Funny, I never have to hide my patriotism of lie about my party affiliations as your kind does again and again.

Z said...

TS/WS...a shot against the bow to the 'elites of the GOP' (as many Republicans did last time, too, by not voting) and a huge loss for this country again because Obama'd win, right?
ugh. I honestly don't understand the TX situation and haven't heard a thing on TV, have you?
Thanks for the information...

Also, are you saying a brokered convention JUST IN TX or nationally??

Chuck, I'm thinking a LOT more anti-Obama voters will come out this time, I really do.

Z said...

beakerkin, that side doesn't have to 'hide its patriotism'.......it doesn't have any to hide.
So you're not going to pull a beamish and vote for Obama because Romney isn't rightwing enough?

sue hanes said...

BFTM - Joel Osteen as VP?

I like some of the positive things that ole Joel sells. Certainly
there's nothing wrong with being
positive. But I don't trust anyone that smiles as much as Joel
does. Sure Joel has made a metric
f'load of money. Hey - I'm ok with that. But a big sh*teating
grin won't get ya a job - and certainly won't earn ya as much money as Joel makes.

No - I don't want Joel Osteen as my vp.

Period.

Thanks Z.

They Say/We Say said...

Texas passed a law that everyone has to show a pictured I.D. to be eligible to vote in Texas. Indiana passed a similar one. It's ok in the North but not the South.
The Justice Dept. said woa not so fast, Tex. There is a Law about the Southern States - not restricting voter rights of the minorities. In other words the South Can't ask -who are you? You have a fake water bill-go on in and vote...two or three times no one will check out the several water bills to see if they are all the same address.
And yes the shot across the Bow was the 2010 mid term elections gaining the House majority. The Senate did not have enough seats up for Grab, or the Tea Party would have took the senate too.
I don't know who the Tea Party will pick if the Brokered Convention takes place--yes Nation Wide.

SCdottr2012 said...

Yes, Santorum should get out of the race. He should take Gingrich and Paul with him.

At this point, I do not see how all of this is helping the cause, which is to get Mr. O a new residence.


Brokered COnventions, well gee.
Why bother having people vote when someone can show up and make up new rules.

Personally, I have never liked any one candidate 100%. But being mature, I try to think about this poor country.
It saddens me to see how egotistical some people are and that especially includes certain candidates.

Impertinent said...

" talking to a clown that trains second rate pornographers..."


Whoa....now I understand why he's so fond of tea bagging.

beamish said...

the ABM (Anybody But Mitt) is putting themselves above America, aren't they. They care more about their tiny little conservative spectrum of what THEY think it is, and then they don't vote if the candidate doesn't exactly suit them. Or vote for the opponent just to "show America".
Well, we saw what happened to America, didn't we...and we still are.


Not at all. I will always side with the most right-leaning of the two major candidates.

In the Romney vs. Obama scenario, Obama's the obvious choice.

beamish said...

I mean, as far freaking left as Obama is, at least he cut Medicare.

beamish said...

Now if the Supreme Court dumps Obamacare, maybe we can get that $500 billion Obama cut out of Medicare turned into tax cuts.

That won't happen under Romney.

beakerkin said...

Z

I will vote for Romney unless he puts Paul in his cabinet.

-FJ said...

New figures from the U.S. Treasury Department indicate that the government has a total operating cash balance of $73.768 billion, less than Apple's own war chest of $75.876 billion.

As noted by Matt Hartley of the Financial Post, the news comes even as Republican and Democrat lawmakers debate over the federal budget and debt ceiling. The government's $73 billion number actually represents the "financial headroom" that lawmakers have before reaching an arbitrary debt ceiling, according to the report.

Apple reported having nearly $76 billion in cash on hand as of June 25, 2011. That's an impressive increase of $10 billion from the previous quarter, when the Cupertino, Calif., company had $65.8 billion in cash reserves.


Corporate America... investing in America? NOT!

-FJ said...

It's one things when individuals are reluctant to spend their money during an economic downturn, and QUITE another when corporations decide to "perch" on the economic sidelines waiting to swoop in and buy up all their competitors assets as they are slowly forced into Chapter 11.

But then, THAT is what Bain Capital was ALL about.... and of course, George H.W. Bush was with the Carlyle Group during 43's presidency...

Bob said...

FJ said:

"when corporations decide to "perch" on the economic sidelines waiting to swoop in and buy up all their competitors assets as they are slowly forced into Chapter 11."

" THAT is what Bain Capital was ALL about.."

No. Bain Capital and other financial organizations are about making money for their stockholders. They are not in the misery business.

When organizations are failing, they need to do the best for their stockholders and employees. Many times, that means liquidating assets, and companies like Bain are there for that legitimate purpose.

The fact is that companies that cannot make it in the market should be killed as quickly as possible to minimize the pain to employees and owners.

Bob said...

Santorum should just shut up and get out.

His campaign has gone to the point that there is no point in continuing. He is not a king maker, nor is he a spoiler. He is just a loser. We don't need that.

Thersites said...

No. Bain Capital and other financial organizations are about making money for their stockholders. They are not in the misery business

Apple is sitting on a larger reserve of capital than the entire US government because they will certainly make a LOT of money buying faIled SiliconValley startups in 2014.

That sure is GREAT for Apple's stock holders... especially since said stockholder just got their very 1st dividend payment since 1995... a whole $2.65 on shares that cost $625. Yep, THERE is a great return...

Oh wait, what did AdamSmith say again....?

Thei interest of share owners and company operators are soon parted... when will investors see Any of that predicted $1 trillion in stock valuation? When they sell? Then stock TRADERS, not stock HOLDERS, are the primary beneficiearies...

Romney should bow out now. Obama's going to kill him in the General. After all, a Democratic corporatist is as good as a Republican one to a stock TRADER.

Thersites said...

If corporations wanted to benefit their INDIVIDUAL stock HOLDERS, they would PAY DIVIDENDS. But then, DIVIDENDS aren't very important to people who don't require any income to supplementtheir wife's Cadillacs purchases or the contruction of elevators in their many homes...

Thersites said...

What was al Gore's carbon footprint, again? Can you say Left wing "corporatism"? George Soros?

-FJ said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
-FJ said...

Swift, "Gulliver's Travels"

“Happy nation, where every child hath at least a chance for being immortal! Happy people, who enjoy so many living examples of ancient virtue, and have masters ready to instruct them in the wisdom of all former ages! but happiest, beyond all comparison, are those excellent struldbrugs, who, being born exempt from that universal calamity of human nature, have their minds free and disengaged, without the weight and depression of spirits caused by the continual apprehensions of death!” I discovered my admiration that I had not observed any of these illustrious persons at court; the black spot on the forehead being so remarkable a distinction, that I could not have easily overlooked it: and it was impossible that his majesty, a most judicious prince, should not provide himself with a good number of such wise and able counsellors. Yet perhaps the virtue of those reverend sages was too strict for the corrupt and libertine manners of a court: and we often find by experience, that young men are too opinionated and volatile to be guided by the sober dictates of their seniors. However, since the king was pleased to allow me access to his royal person, I was resolved, upon the very first occasion, to deliver my opinion to him on this matter freely and at large, by the help of my interpreter; and whether he would please to take my advice or not, yet in one thing I was determined, that his majesty having frequently offered me an establishment in this country, I would, with great thankfulness, accept the favour, and pass my life here in the conversation of those superior beings the struldbrugs, if they would please to admit me.”

Z said...

What was al Gore's carbon footprint, again? Can you say Left wing "corporatism"? George Soros?

NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

But mention SOROS and the left denies and yells KOCH BROTHERS :-)

There is no solution...Soros is HUGE, they don't know, Conservatives point out, and get ignored.
At America's peril

-FJ said...

That's the real problem Z. Left and Right Wing Corporatists are in agreement about one thing, nothing will affect the money being funneled into THEIR pockets. And if it ever does, NOT TO WORRY, the American Taxpayer will bail them out with a TARP bridge loan.

-FJ said...

Every young investment student learns of the "greater fool theory" when their professor or mentor asks whether dividends are important. If the answer is "not really, if the share price increases", the professor then goes on to explain that without eventual dividends to the investor, the share is worthless. Consider, in the extreme, the purchase of a share that guaranteed not to pay any dividends or other payouts to the holder. What would be the worth of this share to the holder? Simply, it would be a "promise not to pay". Ever. The holder might get some psychographic thrill from saying they owned the share, but they would in reality have the same claim to its assets and cashflows as anyone else. Their claim would be worthless, except if they sold it to someone who hadn't figured this out. Hence the "greater fool theory".

-FJ said...

It used to be that the price of a product was related to the labour effort and materials that went into producing it.

What does the "price" of Microsoft Windows have to do with the labour and materials required to produce and distribute it?

Now tell me again why Microsoft doesn't pay dividends greater than a few pennies every quarter?

Speaking of the greater fool theory, does anybody believe that Facebook will eventually "pay dividends" to its' shareholders? $108b worth?

Thersites said...

btw - Ever wonder where Microsoft would be w/o the US government backing up its' monopoly?

In Chinese "shrink wrap"... that's where.

Right Wing Theocrat said...

I think Romney should pick John Bolton as his VP or have him focus on foreign affairs.

You'll need someone to clean up the economic mess left by obama and you'll need someone to clean up the blundering mess obama has made in foreign affairs. Seriously, he's become a patsy to Vladimir Putin, you can't get more pathetic and dishonorable than that.

Always On Watch said...

Z,
AOW...the ABM (Anybody But Mitt) is putting themselves above America, aren't they. They care more about their tiny little conservative spectrum of what THEY think it is, and then they don't vote if the candidate doesn't exactly suit them. Or vote for the opponent just to "show America".
Well, we saw what happened to America, didn't we...and we still are.


I won't go so far as to say they are putting themselves above America. However, in my lifetime, over and over again, I have seen conservatives refuse to back candidates for all sorts of reasons.

IMO, real politic has to be considered.

THERE IS NO "TRUE CONSERVATIVE" candidate who can (1) get the GOP nomination and (2) defeat Obama. A lot of voters simply will not vote for a "true conservative." Ignorance on their part? Sure. But the mainstream media and the education system, as well as various scandals of all ilks, have poisoned the well for true conservatives.

Hell, at this point in America, I'm not sure that Ronald Reagan could win in 2012.

As I've said before, I won't vote for Obama nor will I sit out the election by not voting.

Ticker said...

That makes sense to me; imagine Santorum running in PA and LOSING?
He'd never recover politically..never.

He ran and lost his seat by the largest margin in history. For Saint Santorum it's an ego thing now. He has to win PA just to keep his ego intact and if he does he will keep on strutting around the barnyard like a dang new rooster. Anyone familiar with "new roosters" know that the old rooster will soon enter the yard and young rooster will loose lots of feathers.
Frankly I hope he loses PA so he will finally know HE AINT WANTED, so go home.

Z said...

AOW, I'll have to disagree with what you said "won't go so far as to say they are putting themselves above America. However, in my lifetime, over and over again, I have seen conservatives refuse to back candidates for all sorts of reasons."

We all know enough about Obama to know he's ruining this country's foundations in staggering ways and building an entitlement society only leftwingers can worship..

Of course conservatives refuse to back candidates .... we all have refused to back conservatives candidates we don't like. Most of us had to vote for McCain!

But to not vote NOW?, at this crucial time when the only possible chance we have for our country is Romney is a LOT different than 'refusing to back a candidate for all sorts of reasons'...that's sane; not voting, or voting for Obama is not, in my opinion.

Now even Beamish is saying he's changing from not voting at all to voting for Obama BECAUSE he thinks America's destruction is deserved.

Thank goodness most of us will vote ABO.......
but ABM? too late, folks...sorry.

Or, as Ticker says "don't complain during the next four years"

Thersites said...

If the best that the RNC can do in the face of a catastrophic Obama 2nd term isMitt Romney... we've plenty to complain about. The RNC slit America's throat, not the voters who stayed home.

Thersites said...

The presidency is a product that people have to want to buy. In a free market, a defective product loses. And the RNC won't listen to their customers... conservatives... so F em!

Thersites said...

See ya in 2016. If you have abetter product then, maybe I'll buy. Maybe.

Z said...

Thersites...great, just HAND IT TO THE SOCIALISTS.

I just can't believe your logic, it's astonishing.

YOU do something better than we're doing.
YOU find the best guy.
YOU get rid of the GOP.

You make us all sound like we LOVE the elitist GOPers, like we LOVE Romney ...etc. What an incredible conjecture when you read our blogs.

Well, I"ll take that...at least you can't say WE love OBAMA because we'll vote for anybody who's not HIM.

Thersites said...

I did.

Anybody but Bush Lite. You gave meBush Lite again and again and again. Either give me a Heinecken, or I'll drink water.

Z said...

I gave you BushLite?
Wow, you give me a lot of power.

as if I'm some sort of conspiracy GOPer and just love GOP elitists?

My comments obviously state that I am not huge fan of Romney's either, but he is ALL WE'VE GOT unless you want to come up with a better scenario you imagine could happen.

If you have one, PLEASE let us know and start the wheels turning

Thersites said...

Bush got us Obama...

Bush Lite will get us....

Another Obama term will buy us a revoltion. I'll take my chances with a revolution.

Z said...

so that's your solution?
revolution?

No other person you'd rather vote for, no ideas.......

no wonder we don't agree

Pris said...

With people like Beamish and Theresites who needs to worry about the left?

I've never seen such defeatism. They sounds like children, losers. If they can't get their way, they'll whine and go home with their tails between their legs.

Yes losers! Does anyone here really think that Romney would appoint radical czars and advisers? Get real!

There's more at stake than they are willing to see.

So Beamish, all you care about is knocking medicare out? Well, so does Obama.

But, that's just the start! This country will fall like a stack of marbles if Obama wins, and why? Because that's why he's there in the first place.

But then you Beamish don't have kids and grandchildren, so what the hell do you care?

You care about yourself, and your ego is bloated beyond compare. The same goes for Theresites.

Romney can win if people like you understand that he doesn't want the country to fail. So, he isn't far right enough? How about settling for center right, rather than the far left?

It's better than crashing, isn't it?

Finally, all I can say is I wouldn't want to be on a team with people like you, who would throw out the possibility of winning because one of your teammates is not measuring up to your standards, even if you yourself aren't carrying your share of the load!

I've competed with teammates like you, and all they do is bring their team down, and give their opponents the edge!

My advice to you is put up or shut up!!!

Thersites said...

The future of America under corporatism is not a future that embraces liberty or free enterprise. A future under socialism isn't either. Yet those are the two choices you offer.

And then you have the audacity to blame me for not embracing the "lesser" of two evils...

Meanwhile, the country enters irs fourth year w/o a budget...

Thersites said...

Your team can go to hell.

Z said...

Pris, I agree with you.

People can moan and groan as much as they want about Romney, but were they working hard to get someone else nominated?

We're stuck. And anything is better than Obama.
Apparently, some of our comments don't matter as people aren't reading them but we can repeat and repeat again and again that we must get Obama OUT because the web he weaves is so dangerous and so full of questionable types and liars and it's backed by OUR MEDIA.....

Americans have to wake up and realize we have no other choice; it's just not available.

If any of those who'd tell us to 'go to hell' have a better idea than getting Obama out with Romney at this point in the game, please step forward and make it work.

Pris said...

"Your team can go to hell."

What's the matter Theresites, are you lonely down there? No man's land is not a happy place, is it!

I'm done. I'm not like you or beamish. I will waste only a little of my time. No sense beating myself up when I have more important things to do.

Impertinent said...

Is there a grassy knoll in the future?

Having watched JFK a few dozen times...I see some similarities evolving in the halls of the powerful.

Some who are not very happy to watch us being reduced to a 3rd world Bantu nation.

SCdottr2012 said...

I'm with you on this one, Pris.

Thersites said...

I'm not lonely at all. There's a solid 15 % of Americans who see the defects of Romney Republicans who supported Ron Paul this cycle. There's also a solid 15% of Democrats who support Ralph Nader. If both these sides grow another 10%, theres a viable 3rd party way for America. One that will defeat the two corporatist parties.

More and more Americans are discovering that they don't like the corporatist elements that finance and control their parties. And they can do one thing that corporations can't. They can VOTE.

Bring back small business laissez faire capitalism. The Road to Serfdom goes through corporate statism. In Germany, they called it facism.

Thersites said...

...and in Russia they called it communism.

Thersites said...

ps - I'm not calling Romney "Hitler". Don't misconstrue my facism comment. But Romney is the corporatism enabler that resulted in a Hitler. Hitler would have never risen without the Krupps and other corporate industrialists.

Thersites said...

America does not need a new cabal of industrialists bolstering up American corporatism under the guise of economic recovery.

We need a return to founding principles... one that offers no legal advantages and protection to large corporate shells and shills. Walmart should not be undercutting and putting Main Street out of business.

Thersites said...

Here's how Left Wing corporatists are botching up America.. Romney's crew is little better.

State interference in markets has got to stop.

Thersites said...

...after all, what wasRomneyCare all about?

Z said...

Thersites, so what're you doing here....suggesting we all write Daffy Duck onto our ballots because you don't like the candidate that's better than the worst president we've probably ever had?
not a good move.

Thersites said...

At least a vote for Daffy Duck would do no harm. A vote for Romney, on the other hand, can do a LOT of harm. Especially since all you "good Republicans" won't do squat to stop him from empowering corporate America to transform The country from a "nation of shop keepers" into a nation of "shoppers."

Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do.

Thersites said...

...you could stop shilling for Capt. Inevitable and let the primaries play all the way out... but then since Romney was annoited at Davos four years ago, what's the point, right?

Thersites said...

Billionaire financier George Soros thinks that, if Mitt Romney wins the presidency, there will be "little difference" between him and Barack Obama in the White House.

Soros offered the reassuring news to liberals across Europe during an interview this week in Davos, Switzerland.

As policymakers from Hong Kong to Canada pressed Greece and its creditors to strike a deal to cut the nation’s debt, Soros pressed in on GOP presidential candidate Romney:

"Well, look, either you’ll have an extremist conservative, be it Gingrich or Santorum, in which case I think it will make a big difference which of the two comes in," Soros told Reuters in a videotaped interview.

"If it’s between Obama and Romney, there isn’t all that much difference except for the crowd that they bring with them."

Soros added, "Romney would have to take Gingrich or Santorum as a vice president and you probably have some pretty extreme candidates for the Supreme Court."

"So it won't be that great a difference," he concluded, if Romney becomes president.

Talk radio host Rush Limbaugh described Soros' move this way: "He's endorsing Romney. 'Romney, that's cool, no difference, I could go either way that way.'"

Read more on Newsmax.com: Soros: Obama, Romney 'Not Much Difference'
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

Thersites said...

for once, I agree with George Soros.

Elmers Brother said...

Theristes and FJ are right...any "sophisticated" society through pressure from bureaucracy, science et. al...will increase a loss of individuality and increased pressure for the individual to conform, (even those we consider political allies).

The individual is pushed more and more into the background by systems of thought, historical events and technological forces....force people to fit their lives into the rhythm of machines....Everywhere [people] are losing their peculiarly human qualities. We're now pronouns and objects (VOTES), from an "it" to an "I".

-Sameuel Enoch Stumpf

Elmers Brother said...

correction: from an "I" to an "it"

Elmers Brother said...

Let's not leave out the Church in that group

Elmers Brother said...

inauthenticity - condition that results when the nature and needs of the individual are ignored, denied, and obscured or sacrificed for institutions, abstractions or a group

In philosophy, the conscious self is seen as coming to terms with being in a material world and with encountering external forces, pressures and influences which are very different from, and other than, itself. Authenticity is the degree to which one is true to one's own personality, spirit, or character, despite these pressures.

Z said...

FJ "Especially since all you "good Republicans" won't do squat to stop him from empowering corporate America to transform The country from a "nation of shop keepers" into a nation of "shoppers.""

You don't speak for me or anybody else here... we're ALL for the kinds of things which would promote a nation of shop keepers and if you can tell us what to do and how to manage that, do.
Vote for someone not on the ballot but who you like? Super idea, right?

Elbro..add church to what list?
I'm curious

Elmers Brother said...

The list of institutiions that can be corrupted...for e.g. tax exempt status in exchange for silence

Elmers Brother said...

Or become so bureaucratic as to turn the individual into an object ( a donor to pay the light bill)

Elmers Brother said...

What I really lack is to be clear in my mind what I am to do, not what I am to know, except in so far as a certain understanding must precede every action. The thing is to understand myself, to see what God really wishes me to do; the thing is to find a truth which is true for me, to find the idea for which I can live or die.
What would be the use of discovering so-called objective truth, of working through all the systems of philosophy and be able, if required, to review them all and show up the inconsistencies within each system; – what good would it do me to be able to develop a theory of the state and combine all the details into a simple whole, and so construct a world in which I did not live, but only held up to the view of others; – what good would it do me to be able to explain Christianity if it had no deeper significance for me and for my life; – what good would it do me if truth stood before me cold and naked, not caring whether I recognised her or not, and producing in me a shudder of fear rather than a trusting devotion? I certainly do not deny that I still recognise an imperative of the understanding and that through that one can work upon men, but it must be taken up into my life, and that is what I now recognize as the most important thing. That is what my soul longs after, as the African desert thirsts for water. That is what I lack, and that is why I am left standing like a man who has rented a house and has gathered all the furniture and household things together but has not yet found the beloved with whom to share the joys and sorrows of his life.


Soren Kierkegaard

Thersites said...

You don't have to vote for who I like. Vote your conscience. But you don't have to support the "inevitability" meme either. Nothing is inevitable unti all the votes are counted. And people who refuse to support the nominee are no less patriotic or committed to America than those who vote for Obama. And they're "entitled" to b*tch all they want to. All the candidates have defects. We needn't let our desire to prevent a "greater" evil preclude us from being critical of ALL our own particular preferred candidates defects. And believe me, our candidates this cycle have flaws in spades.

Thersites said...

Until Republicans can convince me that they have an "offset" for Romney's defects, I cannot in good conscience support him.If that makes me not a team player, so be it.

Z said...

Thersites, I'm just going to have to realize that you don't seem to be reading the comments because your comments don't show you are..
Do you see ANYWHERE where any of us has said we absolutely love Mitt Romney? Let me know and paste it, please.

ALL i'm saying is this isn't a perfect world and there's nothing you or I can do about the inevitability of Romney, even if it isn't an inevitability!
Will you be at a brokered convention should there be one fighting as hard as you are here, verbally, for a guy YOU think's more conservative? I know I can't be there. But you feel this strongly, so NOW WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?
Also, who would you like to see nominated?

you say "And people who refuse to support the nominee are no less patriotic or committed to America than those who vote for Obama"

No, but they'll have exactly the same result, won't they.

Elbro, let me know what you intend to do other than not vote, or vote for Obama.
I'll will definitely hold up ANY views other than Obama's...no doubt about it. then we fight.....

I guess I'm just practical and can only deal with what I'm dealt.
Nobody fought hard enough during the primaries... what did we do?
nothing. So, here's what we've got.
And anything, to MY conscience and for this country, is better than Obama....

Z said...

Thersites, nobody expects ANY of us to be a team player. who cares who you vote for?
I just don't understand how one can dislike Obama SO much and not do ANYTHING HE CAN to get him OUT.
pure and simple.

By the way, you've still not told us who you'd support.

Elmers Brother said...

Here's what I'm doing. I'm registering as an independent.

Z said...

Elbro, I think that's an excellent idea.

Thersites said...

In order of preferences, I support Michelle Bachmann, Herb Cane, Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Ron Paul, Newt Gingrich, and bringing up the rear, Mitt Rommney, The Members of the RNC obviously know better than I do who is best for America, though.

After all, if they had wanted my opinion, they wouldn't have closed their primaries in Maryland to Independents.

Thersites said...

.what I WILL be doing is waiting until November to determine if either major party nominee is worthy of my vote. If not, my neighbor, Steve, will be getting my vote, AGAIN. I voted FOR him in 2004 againat Kerry and Bush.

YOu see, I DO.have alternatives to the major party candidates. And at thenend of the day, I am at peace with the fact that I voted for the best possible candidate.

Thersites said...

...you get the party nominee you deserve. More convincing people than me have determined that the Republican nominee will be Mitt Romney... largely because BOTH parties practice new Fordism the Right from the corporate owner's perspective, the Left from the Union boss perspective. And until a viable 3rd party can emerge from the disenchanted members of the two major parties and challenge the predominant corporatist bureacratic religion, we're trapped in an ever deteriorating cycle of economic impoverishment.

Thersites said...

"Too big to fail" proved that the two parties had not adopted a political model capable of supporting our third wave, post-Fordism economic reality... so with TARP and Dodd-Frank, they doubled down on Fordism. The Tea Party and Occupy Wall St. represent the "reaction" against that "stupidity" on the part of our political leaders. Yet this political cycle represents a return to the status quo ante... and a doubling down on Fordism. It will inevitably fail. The people don't want jobs at Walmart and McDonalds. They want to become Prosumers, not Consumers. and we need political leaders and a regulatory system compatible with that economic transition.

Thersites said...

Mitt Romney in a nutshell.

Joe Conservative said...

R-r-r-r-r-r. Zombie economy need Romney brains....