America's never been so divided, don't you think? Liberals hate Conservatives, Conservatives distrust Liberals. Our politicians get behind a lectern, with cameras clicking for the press and rolling for the television news, and thoroughly insult the other side with rancor and ugliness not really heard in public before. In the past, politicians, at least in public, strived to be polite and constructive, not demeaning and destructive. There was a decorum, a dignity to their position. Today, just for one example, Harry Reid frequently insults the president in pretty ugly terms and even called him a loser in a school! Senator Leahy had been on Cheney's back so long that Cheney finally unleashed an expletive not normally heard on the floor of the senate; we all remember that because that word got more media coverage than Obama's recently saying we need a national police force (but, I digress). Leahy just might have deserved that choice word, but it wasn't meant to be heard by anyone else. It was said between two grown men and probably could have done much to diffuse a build up of tension. That's my point:
We need to get back to smoke filled rooms. We need to have all congressmen and senators move their families to Washington, DC again. Republican wives could then meet Democrat wives at schools their children attend. Children, unaware of politics, could even play at the home of a political party different than their own! Moms would meet at soccer games, ballet class, churches, charities, etc. This is how it used to work; it wasn't ever so easy to fly home every weekend as it is now and maybe it works for the politicians, but it clearly isn't working for our country, and here's why:
If political families lived in Washington, fathers (all those politicians we look to every day to try to work together and get things done) just might get to know each other at a poker game or bar and find the other's not quite so bad as previously thought. A poker game could result in much farther reaching consequences than ever experienced before! Politicians would meet at cocktail parties with their wives and get along, given the chance. Putting politics aside for an hour or two could show two politicians the other's not really so bad, maybe they could even have a legitimate point about politics and maybe they should at least listen? Maybe they wouldn't use quite the language they're using today, in public, if they had to face the guy at a poker game that night or were meeting the other politician and his wife for dinner in three hours? And, if they did strongly disagree, they could argue and scream and get it over with. In private. Maybe they could share a cigar, light a guy's cigarette...poor another whiskey and "...let's discuss this again. Maybe there is room for compromise, you're a good guy...."
It's long been my opinion that the smoke filled rooms of yesterday are greatly underrated.
z
37 comments:
how did you put it the other day?
a more genteel time
I hate to say so but you may be right, but then in that day there were core values that both sides agreed on which is no longer true.
are you asking for our leaders to actually treat their collegues with respect as human beings z? you may be asking too much.. he he!!
Right...the core value of America FIRST... not POLITICS FIRST or MY STATE FIRST!
Do you think we'd be better off with term limits? I DO.
Think how much work might be done if there was only ONE five year term? No reason to run to the home state to raise campaign money for the next election; no HUGE lifetime money from US......just a desire to work and fix things.
Mr. Z believes we should do what Germany does and limit campaign spending to what the government allots to each party which has shown enough votes to be considered a legitimate contender. I know this goes against the Conservative grain...but that could solve a lot of problems, too...no more lobbying as we see it, no more payback? Just a thought. Put aside that Conservative roadblock (I know it, and I totally understand the reasoning) and consider the benefits that could reap.
I'd love to hear your comments.
Naw, I can't get along with those $#$@%&...
I think you should look at the incident in Knoxville the other day for a true measure of where we are.
Guy walks into a Unitarian church during a community play and starts blasting with a sawed off shot gun because he was angry at, according to police, "the liberal agenda".
Now I'm going to make book right here that this guy was a regular talk radio listener and we all know it's going to take us a long time to purge ourselves of the hate that's out there.
It reached critical mass with Newt Gingrich and "The Contract on America" and right now we don't have the capacity to change or even realize how ill we are.
I'm not surprised that Obama got little reaction overseas. They don't expect anything from us. This is America and this is what America is ... divided and hateful. Yet we try to pretend we have something worthwhile to sell as we spiral in our great decline.
Look at America now and what you see is a country that doesn't give a crap about the world and a country of citizens who don't even give a crap about each other but we call ourselves Christian.
I'm sorry you hate America so much, Ducky. It must be difficult to live here and honestly believe that Conservatives and Christians are to blame for all our woes in AMerica; bitterness isn't good for anyone. Funny, I just watched Pelosi on THE VIEW say that the only reason Congress has such low approval ratings these days is THE WAR. liberals are delusional, aren't they!?
I ask you to remember the Huffington Post having to close down COMMENTS regarding the Tony Snow death because they were even too ugly for them. You will not hear Conservatives wishing people dead or rejoicing in their demise. Not on this scale.
I have conservative friends in LA who'd like to put a McCain bumper sticker up in reaction to all the Obama stickers...they've tried and either get the finger or get their car keyed. The Leftists here obviously don't feel they'd get the same...they know no Conservative will do that to them. We're just not like that.
You should be on your knees praying thanks to talk radio, that at least there is SOME vestige of fairness in this country when you see that 94% of our profs are libs and indoctrinating instead of teaching (and indoctrinating socialism), and that our media's sickeningly biased towards the left, and most TV and films are geared that way. I, for one, wouldn't approve of a country in which half its people are under represented but that's what we've got and you want that cut off, too? Lovely. HOW utterly American, huh?
This "blonde man" (did you find it funny that was the first mention of the suspect when the media doesn't normally say a thing about the perp in these cases so soon after the occurance)...anyway, this BLONDE MAN (i.e."not a MUS LIM, folks..just a stinkin' WHITE GUY") who shot up the church is a NUT. WHO GIVES A DAMN what he thinks? He hurt people...you call that CHristian?
Why IS it that when Mus lims kill 3000 people, those perps are "not your typical mus lim?" but let a Christian do something like shoot up a church and Ducky's slamming Christendom?
and, by the way? Yes, Europe and Asia DO "expect anything from us"..they want relief, help, money,....and guess what? Your buddy Obama's bill's about to pass! $850 BILLION to the rest of the world SO THEY'LL LIKE US, DUCKY!
I'll remain a lady and just say 'thanks for dropping by'...I wouldn't type here what I really'd like to say.
G_d damn C-SPAN!
Fj...??
ducky-Uitarians are not Christians, and this guy who shot up the gathering isn't either. What he did was WRONG AND EVIL!
Honestly, can you tell me to my face that as a Christian and Conservative(Goldwater variety)I AM LIKELY TO SHOOT UP A CHURCH I DON'T BELIEVE IN? Or a mosque?
Because if you do, you don't know me! Or the kind of people I hang around!
tmw
BTW-This is the latest...seems he didn't like Christianity, guess you were wrong, ducky.
tmw
Well Ducky, I must say, you are predictable. It isn't surprising you would refer to a horrible, evil act to paint all conservative Christians with the same brush.
That's a little like painting all liberals with the same brush because of those who celebrated Tony Snow's death.
A little perspective please, Ducky.
Pris
Z,
I have a feeling the backroom is alive and well. I think it goes something like this, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours".
As for politicos families joining them in Washington....why Z, you wouldn't want to spoil their fun, now would you?
Pris
I like you're thinking, Z.
But that would be putting OUR nation's interests first...and that would appear selfish...and we wouldn't want to do that in the global culture that we have now, would we? ;-)
Z, you are spot on regarding the indoctrination in the universities. I was always floored when my profs would spout off about being open-minded and tolerant, but then would turn on a dime and slam me in front of 150 terrified, trembling students and label me the "conservative Christian Republican" in the class. As if I was the only one. No...I was the only one who spoke up to the dictator in front. There's a subtle form of terror going on in our schools, starting in grade school.
Blah.
And Ducky, millions of people claim to be "Christian". There's a difference in labeling yourself, cheaply, and being a Christ-follower. I certainly know that not all Muslims are terrorists.
He has a problem with Christianity so he goes and shoots up a Unitarian Church? That's like shooting up a mosque because you don't like Baptists.
The man clearly had a few problems.
Pris, I think there's still backroom 'tit for tat' but I do believe the civility that living in the same community brings is gone. I've heard that from Rich Galen, too. There used to be an intimacy which might have been what cushioned the kind of rhetoric politicians are now using against each other. I know Lincoln's day got REAL bad, too...but you'd have not heard Eisenhower or Truman or most other presidents call a sitting pres "LIAR"...Bill Clinton, I believe, was the first to slam a sitting president after his presidency in Europe. I was watching him at a Labor Convention in England and even Tony Blair had the grace to look embarrassed for what CLinton was saying. I was humiliated for my country, it was AWFUL..And a FIRST. He set the standard in many things, didn't he?
Pinkster, we had an elementary school here give EXTRA CREDIT POINTS for marching against the Iraq war. How's that for respecting the decisions your government makes? It's AWFUL. My nephew went to Columbia and said he just let the indoctrination pass....he laughed and said it's hard to escape it, it's everywhere, you just have to be strong. He said he didn't respect the profs too much for that, either.
They're now saying this creep who killed 2 Unitarians shot them up for their liberal viewpoints.
I think all of you see clearly that this isn't a matter of a Christian killing .. it's a sick, demented, hate filled man who did the killing. I've never been told that's a good idea in church..unlike.........
well..ahem.
And Pris, re: that 'fun'..ya, I'd considered that, too. Maybe there are whole other reasons other than easier air travel for senators today not to have their wives with them. We have sunken to levels I'm not really sure we will ever lift ourselves out from.
And I'd venture a guess that Conservative traditional values are less the impetus for this debauchery than the liberal morality of "if it feels good..."
After all, Alan Colmes, the other night upon hearing about John Edwards, said "Isn't he a private citizen and entitled to do whatever he wants!?"
Yup...mustn't impede a philanderer with morality, HUH?
i'm trying to keep my sense of humor..............ugh!!
How long have the camera's been on the House and Senate floors? Talk about an "actors" dream....
FJ.. of course, I see your point now. And ya......senate hearings lambasting OUR PEOPLE to where you want to say "Whose side are you on, anyway?" They lambaste them harder than the Gitmo guys are allowed to be interrogated.
Yes, the posturing has definitely created a more uncivil congress.
And, our new America seems to spawn politicians who'd rather be seen as rancorous and righteous than smart, kind and concerned about America.
go figure.
Cigar smoke filled rooms are a great idea and maybe even a fisticuff or two. Our present legislators are nearly void of any sort of passion and that does not serve us well. Our forefathers were strong men of passionate words and moving speeches and even quick tempers on more than one occasion. This passion was in direct link to the LOVE they felt for our America.
Besides, cigar smoke is SEXY
Z, I guess I should't have made light of this. I do remember how Reagan and Tip O'neil had a friendly adversarial relationship.
Somehow I think the Clintons ruthless approach, with their politics of personal destruction, remained a tactic. Perhaps because it seemed to work.
That attitude still prevails in Washington today.
On the other hand, it seems to reflect the lack of honor and grace in our society today. I'm not sure which came first. Whichever it is, it's certainly disheartening, and damaging to our American psyche.
Pris
Ducky, there's a lot more "hate" in the liberal world then there is in the conservative/moderate world. As an actress I have witnessed that hate and venom, many times. Lunatic personalities are not the exclusive realm of the conservatives. There are as many wack job liberals.
Papa Frank..that passion kept our politicians of olden days honest. They believed in what they said, they didn't do only what was politically expedient. Maybe we're fantasizing about them, but I believe you're right.
TERM LIMITS might be just what this congress needs. Even just ONE five year term.
Pris..yes..Reagan and O'Neal were buddies. These were two guys who loved this country and wanted the best for her but had different ways of getting there.
Today, we have Obama wanting to give the world $854 BILLION dollars and, at the exact same time, is talking about stimulus packages. Is it ME, or??? WHAT?
Incognito...I have NEVER heard a conservative spew QUITE the venom towards the Left as they do to us. AND, most conservatives sites allow lefties to post. Moveon and DU don't, did you know that?
Imagine thinking 'only conservatves' should be blamed for incivility?
Z, it's not very often that you and I disagree, but this time we disagree about almost everything. There never was a time when American politics played by Marques de Queensbury rules. As an armchair American historian I can say with a great deal of confidence that radicals (mostly Democrats) have ALWAYS been a vicious lot! It's what we do instead of shooting each other every four years.
Thomas Jeffereson himself (as the Veep) led one of the MOST miserable campaigns in our history against the sitting President, John Adams! He did it in an underhanded fashion, using his friends in the newspaper business.
The "Kingfish" (Democrat)led a Populist/Fascist/Leftist insurgency that prompted many to think the world was coming to an end. This is only "new" in our thinking. Most of us have a detailed perspective that doesn't go back past the 50's. Heck, do you remember some of the miserable things the elected radicals said about Reagan?
You wrote:
"Mr. Z believes we should do what Germany does and limit campaign spending to what the government allots to each party which has shown enough votes to be considered a legitimate contender. I know this goes against the Conservative grain...but that could solve a lot of problems, too"
I also think this is a VERY bad idea. By drastically limiting campaign spending the advantage is given to the media darling. We know who that is every election cycle... Without the ability to buy large amounts of air time and newspaper space, McCain is at an ENORMOUS disadvantage. Republicans have always had to buy HUGE amounts of advertising to get their word out.
Morgan
Morgan, thanks for the information, and you're probably right, but I have heard politicians say that the old days of families knowing each other did help in keeping a semblance of civility. Yes, I know it's not been great in the past...I referenced LIncoln's treatment during the war by the press, etc., but this COULD help!
As for campaign funding...we have to remember that Obama would ONLY get what McCain got; McCain wouldn't have to be getting more and more money to fight the every growing Obama-Soros coffers.
I know it's not a very Republican way to think, limiting campaign funding, but it creates a WHOLE different situation; less lobbying, less greed, less payback opportunities, etc.
How do you feel about TERM LIMITS??
"Conservatives distrust Liberals." With good reason.
The other side of them all moving to washington is that we think the politicians are already out of touch with the average joe, so with this they might be even further away from the people.
"As for campaign funding...we have to remember that Obama would ONLY get what McCain got; McCain wouldn't have to be getting more and more money to fight the every growing Obama-Soros coffers."
Number one, the Dems would break the rule and wait for the FEC to catch up MONTHS later like they always do. They would get hordes of chicom and arab cash and no one would be prosecuted after the election. Look at the Clintons. No amount of legislation would change that.
Number two, the leftist MSM is always the biggest contributor to any Democrat's campaign. They do it with fawning, continuous and skewed coverage, which is why Repubs need to raise far more money to counteract the tilt.
"I know it's not a very Republican way to think, limiting campaign funding, but it creates a WHOLE different situation; less lobbying, less greed, less payback opportunities, etc."
McCain-Feingold tried just this and it created enormous new problems. As long as politicians can gerrymander the tax code to such an extent, money will find it's way into politics. It's natural and expected. The FairTax would solve MUCH of this problem that you seek to address without damaging our rights of POLITICAL free speech.
Morgan
What about TERM LMITS, Morgan? You for them?
And MK...I don't think the politicians living in DC would make them any less out of touch. You make a good point, but they get enough input from their States even if they're not there...
Term limits would help them not have to spend more time raising campaign money for the next go-around than WORKING HARD to improve things!
"Moveon and DU don't, did you know that?"
So leftists post at Freerepublic, Little Green Footballs and the like. Give me a break.
Check out Free Republic some time. Most of them appear to have just crawled out of the swamp.
Then there is rabies radio. Now, I bet Michael Savage, Bill O'Reilly, Talent on Loan from Synthetic Morphine Limbaugh, Ann Coulter et. Al. just make you folk proud as punch, right?
Guy walks into a church and shoots up a church play because he hated the "liberal agenda" and you're going to tell me he wasn't a regular hate radio listener?
The country is going to hell. The movement culminating with the disgusting Newt Gingrich is the major source of the rift. Get ready for the long slow decline and start picking out who you are going to blame, because you don't seem able to look at the grand conservative movement and admit it failed.
I'm coming around to the idea of term limits.
Morgan
You posted it this yesterday, Ducky, and I responded.
I'll just say this once again: when one idiot kills people in a church, how can you broadbrush all conservatives who listen to talk radio when if 19 mus lims kill 3000 Americans, you consider that not to be all about islam, it's just a fringe group of hateful nuts?
I'm not a fan of freerepublic; I just never could get into that site for some reason. But go to FPM some time again and relive the stupid comments there about 'this ridiculous site of conservatives and what an agenda it has' as if FPM says it's NOT a Conservative site? My point is they're openly Conservative and the left has a fit! That's always made me laugh. Then they'll read the NYTimes and not be able to figure out why Conservatives don't see that as even handed!??
There's a disconnect in the Left.
If the Conservative movement failed it's because they stopped being real conservatives. You'd be the type to think Reagan's administration was a failure, too, so what's the point in discussing that?
"Smoke filled room"?
..what gathering place even permits smoking in this modern era?
bb...think METAPHOR!
thanks for stopping by! You're right; maybe THEREIN lies an even bigger problem!?
I did some looking and found there were instances of literal, physical fights on the floor of congress, shootings and all sorts of activities.
By the way, there are still smoke filled rooms, deals being cut, just that they are done in far away countries with traitorous politicans, in my own opinion.
As for some idiot going and shooting up that so called church, that is so wrong.
Breaking the law is breaking the law, no more no less.
Hate is hate and Christians are taught that to hate and have hate is murder in one's heart.
Unitarian Churches are not really Christian Churches, not that I say this excuses what this man did the other day.
But hey , good thing those crazy, gun toting screwy white Christians came to this country and tamed it , isn't it?
WVDOTTR
By the way, I used to think term limits was just a gimmick, but over the past few years I have come to believe it is about the most decent way to prevent or at least curtail the corruption that occurs within both parties .
Obviously the people going to DC are not all going to serve our interests but their own.
Criminals r us,. that is what seems to be there now.
But, in truth humans are frail, and it takes true strength of character to resist the power of money and influence and so forth.
And trust me, living in WV with my so called senators sitting up in DC, I think I know where of I speak.
WVDOTTR
WV...like I said, Lincoln's times were very rancorous, too.
I'm talking more about a new lowness like telling the American children their president's a LOSER....we never had that before, EVER. it's one thing to argue amongst each other, but the really LOW level of public discourse is new and BAD on this scale.
Fisticuffs is one thing, what we tell the public is another.
In general, never mixing except at work isn't a great idea if the job requires getting along, working together; people need to get together outside of situations to really get to know and respect (or not)each other.
It's not like it was years ago...there's a divisiveness we've never had before; I believe there's a lot to be said for my metaphor of smoke filled rooms, and I'm sure there are other ways we could improve what's going on, but probably it's just POWER which has created this ugliness.
And term limits could help solve that. No more KINGS, just 5 year senators..they come, work, and go. And they wouldn't have to beat it home to fund raise, either.!!
Yes . congressmen telling children to be disobediant , telling children bad things about sitting presidents, using children in protests, including the anti -abortionists using children in their campaigns..these things are plain wrong and low and callous and cheapening.
It has to stop.
WVDOTTR
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