Tuesday, December 16, 2008

Should we pay children when they excel?

The new nominee for Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan, believes in paying kids for good grades.

What do you think?


Anonymous said...

That Arne Duncan has got to be the 2nd dumbest person on the planet... Obama being No. 1.

shoprat said...

But paying good students would make the less capable feel left out when rewards are passed out.

Sarc off.

I'm honestly surprised a leftist would come up with this. On the surface, except the question of where the money comes from, it sounds like a good idea, but it's opening a can of worms that I prefer to keep closed.

Ducky's here said...

The situation is so desperate in Chicago that they might as well try anything.

As a general rule this would be a no go but a lot of Chicago doesn't follow a general rule.

Z said...

FJ....seems to be (I agree with your No.1...i'm hoping we're wrong about ol' Arne)

Shoprat; at my sis's kids' school, only those who got awards attended the awards ceremonies..all others were not invited so they wouldn't feel bad. imagine? This one fact makes me realize we're not raising Americans with the competitive qualities that made this country so so great. Also, the TBall games don't have scores...just 10 minutes per inning.. Nobody should feel bad, dontcha know! These kids are our next generation of soldiers. Oh, man.

Ducky, the school district in Chicago's apparently one of the worst....Would you have selected this guy?

I do like, VERY MUCH, the implementation of school campuses being open and supervised for 10 or 12 hours a day, I must say...I always thought putting retired grandparents together with kids after school for tutoring, advice, friendship, would be a fantastic idea for ALL involved. I'd hope he might implement something like that in those off-school hours on campus; and I'm thinking most elderly would work as volunteers, don't you?

They apparently have basketball courts, pools, libraries, etc....for after school, I'm all OVER that.

Plus, he believes in involving the parents much more ...I'm for that, too.

I just get nervous when I know how rotten the school system's been there and that he selected someone to run the nation's system who hasn't been too successful...and who was hired by the Daly Machine.

Anonymous said...

Here's an example of one of Arne's programs...

With the help of investment professionals and corporatefunding from Ariel and Nuveen Investments, ACA students have the opportunity to invest real money. The Ariel-Nuveen Investment Program teaches students the value of investing as they learn the importance of giving back. The first grade class at the Academy is given an endow-ment of $20,000 to invest in a class stock portfolio. Through their years at the school, students watch their initial investment grow. Upon graduation, students give their original $20,000 investment back to the incoming 1st grade class. The remaining profit is divided in half. One portion is donated back to the school, while the rest is distributed among the graduates, who can opt to receive cash or deposit their earnings into a college savings plan with an additional $1,000 from Ariel CapitalManagement, LLC. THE INVESTMENT CURRICULUM We want to make the stock market
a topic of dinner table conversation.

The kindergarten kids did great in 2007. They're losing their asses in 2008... and will probably never invest a dime again in their entire lives...

Kris said...

no they should not be paid...in money. they should be congratulated, maybe given awards...all should see and want to aspire to the same. i agree with z...where will our kids competitive edge be? we as parents keep score at our baseball games because the kids want to know. they are competitive by nature...we are telling them it is not a good thing when it is actually one the qualities that will help them succeed along the way.

Anonymous said...

Some info on the Chicago program...

Every five weeks, students receive $50 for A’s, $35 for B’s and $20 for C’s. Students get half the money now and collect the rest only if they graduate. For Alfred, who wants to go to law school, that’s money in the bank for college.

christian soldier said...

NO!-that's what GRADES (merit) are for!

Z said...

FJ...you're making excellent points there!!

Just the THOUGHT of PAYING someone to do the job they're supposed to do.. wait, let me reword that (!)...Just paying for the privilege of going to school to learn for one's own future is perverse, in my humble opinion..and I'm glad it's so with most of you, too.

Here's something sappy and not a little self congratulatory but I don't mean it to be, I say this to make a point: After one graduates, after which most parents have paid a BUNDLE to get you through shoes and books thru your whole life of schooling and then tuition for college, they're expected to give US a GIFT. Does THAT make sense? Think about it! "Thanks for letting me raise you and pay for everything you've ever had spent on you in the last 22 years so that you could grow and have a good education, dear child...now, here's a car to thank you for that privilege?"

I gave my folks a gift when I graduated from college..nothing big deal, but something.

Of course, Grandpa'd got me a car for high school graduation, but...(LOL!)

Nikki said...

My son gets a reward for a good school year, which is usually ice cream or something. We tell him the feeling of excelling is his reward...He feels good about himself for being successful and understands that success is reward enough! :)N

Anonymous said...

I agree students need motivation to do well but I'm not sure cash is the way to go.

Anonymous said...

You people kill me. The problem isn't going to be motivating students... it'll be "grade inflation" from teachers who'll feel sorry for poor kids and who'll give the poorest A's so that they can collect a few extra bucks every five weeks.

Teachers will be doling out "sympathy grades" instead of pay for academic performance. We all know how the Marxists love "equality of outcome," standards be damned.

Anonymous said...

We have a similar problem here in Maryland already... 70% of the kids are on the Honor Roll. I'm sorry, but IMHO, only about 2-3% should be on the "Honor Roll".

Gee, our kids are doing so GREAT, so the schools must be doing a GREAT job! NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

The public school's "sins" are buried in A's & B's so that the parents won't look hard at them.

Anonymous said...

I think that negative incentive works much better (I grew up with that, hasn't harmed me in the least) - don't dare you come with bad grades, or else! And when getting a gift, which was extremely rare as it should be, then we got a book.


Z said...

FJ...who doesn't agree with you?
Are you frustrated that we've missed that point? Because we probably have! But, we agree paying for grades is a terrible message.

I think Mr. Z's experience was most of what WE got, no? But, I don't think that's the lay of the land...Funny, we SURE DID DO BETTER than most kids today!

FJ..ya..you had to go around the bush a bit before you came out and said your peace, but it's a HORRID peace! And this Arne Duncan seems to be all OVER that kind of ridiculous "education redistribution!" Harvard Grad...Daly Machine intern....close Obama friend...who knows how well he knows Ayers? All we really know is that the education group Ayers and Obama were deeply involved with has TERRIBLE results..YIKES!!

Anonymous said...


I didn't mean to come across as "angry" as I did. It's just that I've watched our school systems deteriorate, and I'm sick of "professional" educators and their schemes.

Ducky's here said...

Ducky, the school district in Chicago's apparently one of the worst....Would you have selected this guy?


I don't know. He's in a tough spot in Chicago but his reputation is good.

He also knows Bill Ayers.

Kris said...

that is why home school is on the rise...and so are the scores of kids in HS. they are being courted by the colleges now...


WomanHonorThyself said...

good grief Z!..what next!

Anonymous said...

Arne has never taught a class in his life.

That you tell you something about his qualifications.

He's one of the Aspen Institute's fair haired boys. That should tell you something else about him.

Z said...

Every friend of obama's knows Ayers, Ducky... Trouble is how miserably Ayers and obama's school foundation or whatever it is has done....very, very bad results. Ah, well.

Thank God for home schooling, as Kris says. I was dead set against it for YEARS, I wanted American kids to meet each other, from ALL walks of life. Then we had forced busing and kids were spending THREE HOURS on the bus a day and there were the Black Tables and the White Tables at the cafeteria; not planned by the school, the kids worked it out that way. SOME segregation, some better understanding, huh? Busing started a few years after I left a pretty upscale high school in LA..Suddenly, we had Black kids from the inner city sitting on freeways for 1 1/2 hours to get to school and 1 1/2 to get home...and "Look what the RICH KIDS HAVE!!" It worked miserably.... how horrid...another great leftwing failure...Almost as bad as bilingual. The teachers only fight for that because they get paid more to teach bilingual. My grandfather came with only a foreign language and learned English in about 3 months. Sorry the Left doesn't think that much of Mexicans, huh?

FJ...Ya I'd heard about the Aspen Inst. connection..scary.

But, I will say I still like the idea of having schools open after hours. My own addition would be the volunteer grandparents. Win/Win

Anonymous said...

BRIBING students to do what what is IMPERATIVE if they are to succeed? NUTS!

DEPRIVING them of privileges and "fun stuff" if they DON'T apply themselves would be more to the point, I should think.


Giving special rewards for doing what OUGHT to be done in the first place encourages greedy, unprincipled, poorly-motivated behavior.

Doing the "right" thing for the "wrong" reason is twisted.


~ FreeThinke


Papa Frank said...

So ducky, have you apologized to Z yet? Or do you have no honor?

cube said...

I tend to think that paying kids for good grades is not the way to go.

If you make bad grades, there will be consequences is a better approach. Consequences such as no TV, no video games, etc. Grounding is an effective way of focusing the mind.

$20 for a C? How about no money for a C.

And where will all this money come from?

Bad plan.

Z said...

Cube..I wish MY parents had given me a $20 for a C....as it is the inducement to do better than that (much better) kept me on my toes and doing better than C's. I think that's better...

I think what you ALL are saying here is that CHARACTER cannot be achieved by being paid to do well the things which should be expected of us.

CHARACTER doesn't seem to matter anymore, though...look at obama.

But, you know, this is CHICAGO...a twenty slipped to a kid for doing 'good' is probably just their cup of tea. Maybe ol' Blaggie got paid for his grades, huh? He just gets bigger sums now?

Law and Order Teacher said...

From my perspective I think that parents/grandparents who pay for grades are within their rights. At least they're paying attention. As for these massive donations in this program, why not spend the money at the school on, I don't know, books, computers, etc. These kind of pay to learn programs are a real pain and skewer students' perception of learning. I think the negative approach is best. Do your job son/daughter as a student and learn. Participate and take responsibility for your education. If you do not do your job you will lose privileges until you do. That's the way it is in the real world. We did that with our kids, who are both college graduates, one a teacher, the other an engineer. Paying kids for grade reeks of too much government involvement in raising children. Just some thoughts.

Mantha said...

as a collective society, we are extrinsically motivated. kids are well trained by inept parent that if you do this (get good grades, stay out of the principal's office, be nice to people, etc...), i'll pay you with this (money, video games, food, etc...).

in the process, this skewed balance of rewards has perpetuated a generation of students that have a highly developed sense of learned helplessness. you are right FJ, teachers sometimes give sympathy grades. that's part of the politics of education. the public school districts are a money making business, and they keep parents "happy happy" by letting their child move through the grades with relative ease, even though they are sorely lacking in their academic acheivements. it's under the umbrella of "social promotion," which is designed to prevent the 15-year old lazy bum from being in a 3rd grade glassroo, even if it's where they are at academically speaking.

it is not always the teachers that are at fault. their are multiple cross sections of politics, complacency, and sheer retardedness through the district and all its staff.

now, to concretely answer z's question - no, as a proud public educator, we should not monetarily reward kids for good grades. as a teacher, my goal is to teach kids how to solve problems in life, compete with themselves to be the best human they can be, and be internally motivated to do their best work, regardless of reward.

ok, stepping off the soapbox now.

Z said...

Thanks, Law and Order TEACHER, I was hoping you'd come by and give us your educated input. LOSING PRIVILEGES..that is the ticket. We must learn consequences.
I always say "Your boss is never going to find you as cute as your parent....you've got to know your stuff and impress people..be better than the next person so you can excel." But, the left looks at that as unkind and unfair; we mustn't be better than anybody else because we worked harder.

This is an ENOOOOORMOUS problem in America today and it has to stop, don't you think?

Salubrina, You're a teacher too, if memory serves me (or even if it doesn't!?) I'm glad you agree, too.

I'd LOVE to post this at a lib site and see the response.

Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Money: no. Some other type of "reward" such as the ability to do something the rest of the class cannot (perhaps go home a little early one day or some other small perk), perhaps.


Elmers Brother said...

I'm with FJ....this same type of thing happened while I was in the military. A 4.0 sailor was the perfect sailor. The system had no clear objective description of what a 4.0 sailor looked like. Over time everyone was 4.0. It then became difficult to determine who should get promoted. So they had to come up with another way to prioritize those deserving.

Eventually they scrapped the whole evaluation system and came up with another system with clear sensible objective standards.

Not every child is an A student. James Dobson pointed out in one of his books on self esteem that parents should help their children compensate by finding things that the child is good at and encouraging that activity.

I have a nephew who is an average student BUT he's an excellent drummer (16 now, started around 11). He's played for some well known musicians in the area.

Papa Frank said...

I missed out on a lot of cash. DANG!!! To think that all I got out of my good grades was a sense of accomplishment, confidence in my own ability, and the honor attached to honest work. A $20 bill would have been SOOOO much better than that! ;0)

Elmers Brother said...

in the process, this skewed balance of rewards has perpetuated a generation of students that have a highly developed sense of learned helplessness.

learned helplessness....this sounded like the Obama campaign

(((Thought Criminal))) said...

Wait a minute, I thought Obama was responsible for improving education in Chicago with his staple gun and Bill Ayers funded flyers.

Anonymous said...

I couldn't care less how parents handle this. As for Cleptocrats wanting to use MY money to pay somene else's snot-nosed, grade inflated brat: Is he high or something!? What a dunce cap lefty idea!


Anonymous said...

So would a high-school student with a manual labor job work an extra four hours if it caused his grades to slip from an A to a C? Introduction to Freakonomics described a case where attempt to add a monetary incentive for behavior actually decreased incentive because the monetary incentive replaced the incentive based on sense of duty and obligation.

Here's a modest proposal: Have the students' pay checks come out of teachers' salaries as a measure to curb grade inflation.

--Tio Bowser

Anonymous said...

It's a horrible idea.
If my district did it, I'd encourage my kids to donate it to charity.

It stinks something awful.
I think it infringes on the parent's rights.

Chuck said...

In a word, NO.

This came up recently in my house. My oldest son's friend was offered a "sizeable" cash incentitive by his parents if he made Valedictorian. So we talked about it in our house. For the record, they have a couple of years to go and my son is actually in the running. My middle son piped in and said if we paid him, he would get good grades.

I told him in absolutely clear language that he would get good grades and we would not be paying him.

I want them to earn them for themselves, not because they get a reward. There is not a cash reward for everything in life. Do you get paid cash for being a good father and husband? Or for being an honorable person?

I want my kids to learn that success is it's own reward.

Anonymous said...

This idea is the kind of drivel that led American education to its present low state; I could not be more opposed to this proposal. If we truly wanted to motivate students to learn, we would begin by testing them for interests and aptitudes, and then tailor an educational program that best suitd their interests and needs. We are not doing this, and I have seen no evidence that educationalists are even considering what I think is one of the essential elements of understanding human behavior. We have developed a “one size fits all” program that ignores the needs of 70% of all students. We have made horrendously erroneous assumptions that “everyone wants to go to college,” or even that everyone should want to go to college. I don’t find much “in Europe” that I agree with, but education is one area where I do agree with both European and Asian ideologies.

Beyond that, paying students to get good grades provides positive reinforcement to negative behavior. The reward of a good education (and I don’t simply mean to imply the academic track) is its long- term benefit, rather than a short-term bribe. People who achieve advanced degrees earn more money over their lifetime than those with a high school diploma. What we should reinforce to our students is that “education” never ends . . . it is an on-going process, even among automotive mechanics, who if they are to remain competitive, must periodically return to school to learn about the newest technologies. It is no wonder we are a nation of debtors; that we prefer immediate gratification to long-term savings and investment as the only pathway to wealth. The idea is typical liberalist balderdash.

Unknown said...

Well, I'll tell you what I did for my children: I paid $2 for an 'A' and $1 for a 'B'. My kids got nothing for a 'C' because, as I told them: a C is 'Average' so obviously pretty much ANYBODY can get one of those. But you know what else I did? I CHARGED THEM $1 for a 'D' and $2 for an 'F'.

Guess what? They are all college graduates and 2 are US Military Officers. I am very proud to admit that I still owe them money =)

Mike said...

Wow. Chicago Public Schools must be doing pretty well for Obama to name Duncan Education Secretary. Oh wait...they are horrible. Remember this from September?

Also, it's insulting that students are being paid money when they succeed in the classroom because who takes the heat when students do not succeed? Teachers

Anonymous said...

So now, the idea is to usurp parents authority once again? This is the latest step in stripping parents of their responsibilty.

It's a wonder kids look to their parents for anything anymore. If they want to reward their children for good grades it's up to them, not the school.

FJ's right. A's and B's would be handed out like candy, making those grades meaningless, and taxpayers would be paying for it.

I have an idea, why not eliminate tenure, treat teaching like any other job, and create an incentive for the teachers to excel at their job. How about paying the good teachers more, and getting rid of the incompetent ones.

And, for heaven's sake get rid of this notion that they can 'give' a child self esteem and confidence.

This 'feel good' approach is not teaching. It requires lying and manipulation.

My grandson, at the ripe old age of 5 years old, figured out the game his first month in Kindergarten. He brought home a paper with a sticker placed on it by the teacher that said "terrific work". When I congratulated him he said, "it doesn't mean anything, everyone got one"!
Out of the mouths of babes, huh?


Anonymous said...

Chicago, Chicago that toddling town
Chicago, Chicago I will show you around - I love it
Bet your bottom dollar you lose the blues in Chicago, Chicago
The town that Billy Sunday couldn't shut down

On State Street, that great street, I just want to say
They do things they don't do on Broadway
They have the time, the time of their life
I saw a man who danced with his wife
In Chicago, Chicago my home town

Chicago, Chicago that toddlin' town
Chicago, Chicago I'll show you around - I love it
Bet your bottom dollar you lose your shoes in Chicago, Chicago
The town that Billy Sunday could not shut down

On State Street, that great street, I just want to say
They do things that they never do on Broadway -- say
They have the time, the time of their life
I saw a man who ran for his life
As Mafia gunmen's bullets shot him down.

What a town!

~ FreeThinke

Steve Harkonnen said...

Shoprat: But paying good students would make the less capable feel left out when rewards are passed out.

But shoprat, your sarcasm rings up the truth, and yeah, I agree that I too am surprised a liberal would come up with that idea too, but in terms of your above quote, it's kind of hypocritical on their behalf to invent this insane idea.

I feel it's wrong to pay them money. We have enough competition and stress in school nowadays anyway, and no matter how much you toss money rewards at kids who excel in school, someone will always feel left out and dejected.

Z said...

BOY! "Left out and dejected" is the last thing I'd care about.

Steve...DO we have competition or is it benign neglect? We have SO SO many high school kids graduating who can only read 5th grade stuff. The teachers graduate them but the kids aren't really learning.

SOME schools have great competition; some kids are encouraged to do well, but from what I see, most kids just want to get OUT, not LEARN...it's not cool to learn. TV shows, etc., have made kids feel like geeks if they study.

I'm generalizing, but..

Anonymous said...

You're dead ON, Mustang. The main problem with American High School's are their one-size fits-all "college" track programs. I sent my two youngest to a "School for the Arts" and it was the opportunity for them to engage in and practice their "art" (and it could have just as well been a vocational art) that made their days "rewarding" and learning a "necessary" compoenent of it.

Plato, "Philebus"

SOCRATES: Knowledge has two parts,—the one productive, and the other educational?


SOCRATES: And in the productive or handicraft arts, is not one part more akin to knowledge, and the other less; and may not the one part be regarded as the pure, and the other as the impure?

PROTARCHUS: Certainly.

SOCRATES: Let us separate the superior or dominant elements in each of them.

PROTARCHUS: What are they, and how do you separate them?

SOCRATES: I mean to say, that if arithmetic, mensuration, and weighing be taken away from any art, that which remains will not be much.

PROTARCHUS: Not much, certainly.

SOCRATES: The rest will be only conjecture, and the better use of the senses which is given by experience and practice, in addition to a certain power of guessing, which is commonly called art, and is perfected by attention and pains.

PROTARCHUS: Nothing more, assuredly.

SOCRATES: Music, for instance, is full of this empiricism; for sounds are harmonized, not by measure, but by skilful conjecture; the music of the flute is always trying to guess the pitch of each vibrating note, and is therefore mixed up with much that is doubtful and has little which is certain.

PROTARCHUS: Most true.

SOCRATES: And the same will be found to hold good of medicine and husbandry and piloting and generalship.

PROTARCHUS: Very true.

SOCRATES: The art of the builder, on the other hand, which uses a number of measures and instruments, attains by their help to a greater degree of accuracy than the other arts.

PROTARCHUS: How is that?

SOCRATES: In ship-building and house-building, and in other branches of the art of carpentering, the builder has his rule, lathe, compass, line, and a most ingenious machine for straightening wood.

PROTARCHUS: Very true, Socrates.

SOCRATES: Then now let us divide the arts of which we were speaking into two kinds,—the arts which, like music, are less exact in their results, and those which, like carpentering, are more exact.

PROTARCHUS: Let us make that division.

SOCRATES: Of the latter class, the most exact of all are those which we just now spoke of as primary.

PROTARCHUS: I see that you mean arithmetic, and the kindred arts of weighing and measuring.

SOCRATES: Certainly, Protarchus; but are not these also distinguishable into two kinds?

PROTARCHUS: What are the two kinds?

SOCRATES: In the first place, arithmetic is of two kinds, one of which is popular, and the other philosophical.

PROTARCHUS: How would you distinguish them?

SOCRATES: There is a wide difference between them, Protarchus; some arithmeticians reckon unequal units; as for example, two armies, two oxen, two very large things or two very small things. The party who are opposed to them insist that every unit in ten thousand must be the same as every other unit.

For to master one's "art", one must become "educated".

Elmers Brother said...

I've encouraged my homeschooled children to pursue vocational school followed by college. The vocation if wisely chosen can provide the means of support while attending college.

But each child is different...my youngest daughter just finished vocational school and wants to take up photography in college.

My son (15) is taking the college route with 2 college math courses under his belt.

Train up a child in the way he should go and he will not depart from it.

The Bible says to train the child according to their bent...their interests.

We've also done unschooling....an example..when we moved to the rural area we live in now you could see many more stars then our previous citified home.

It sparked an interest in the stars...we studied the constellations, bought a telescope and some computer software to study the stars.

It's an effort to find what the child's bent in order that they might find a vocation. Not merely a job.

Kris said...

elmers brother - we are doing astronomy only this yr for science. we love it (3rd grade)


Always On Watch said...

I'm against the school system's shelling out reward money to students. The same goes for the teachers doing so.

Parents can, of course, design any reward system they like.

But in my experience, monetary rewards for grades are counterproductive.

I got good grades and received no rewards -- except for end-of-the-year scholarship awards, which were put into my college fund. Furthermore, students should do their best; not all will receive A's.

Elmers Brother said...

We enjoyed it kw.

Ducky's here said...

SOCRATES: I mean to say, that if arithmetic, mensuration, and weighing be taken away from any art, that which remains will not be much.

PROTARCHUS: Not much, certainly.

SOCRATES: The rest will be only conjecture, and the better use of the senses which is given by experience and practice, in addition to a certain power of guessing, which is commonly called art, and is perfected by attention and pains.


I wish Jean-Luc had been around to talk to this guy.

Socrates: But all sense of measurement demands that close-ups never be taken with a wide angle lens.

Jean-Luc Godard: Yeah, that's what they say, gramps now beat it. Hey, Belmondo lets try that close up with a fish eye this time.

Socrates: But that defies all experience and practice. It is a misuse of your tools.

Jean-Luc Godard: Hey, gramps says I can't do a tracking shot with a hand held. Something about tradition. Let's try a few.

The master is not confined by rules.

Anonymous said...

Remember ducky, some arts contain more "art" and less science and "mensuration" than others.

Film isn't exactly rocket science.

You're not from the "one army is the same as any other" school, are you?

Anonymous said...

The master is not confined by rules.

That depends upon who wrote them, another "master" or The Master.

Anonymous said...

Icing on Arne Duncan's cake...

It's hardly a secret that Chicago public schools chief executive Arne Duncan was the architect behind a failed plan to open a "gay-friendly" high school in the Windy City. But for some reason Washington Post staffer Maria Glod decided to keep that skeleton in the closet, leaving the fact out completely from her page A3 December 17 story, "Education Pick Is Called 'Down-to-Earth' Leader."

Glod set out in her 22-paragraph article to portray Duncan as an education reformed well-respected by both Democrats and Republicans and even garnering begrudging respect and even some allies among teachers unions and school bureaucrats who were at first wary of him.

The controvery over the proposed Social Justice Solidarity High School -- which was scrapped in a November 18 school board vote -- was completely left unmentioned although as Brad Haynes of the Wall Street Journal's Washington Wire blog reported yesterday:

Duncan’s openness to new ideas caused a stir in Chicago just last month when he proposed a high school designed for gay students. Aimed at keeping students from being bullied and ostracized, Duncan pitched the idea of an explicitly gay-friendly school, where half of the students were expected to identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.

The proposal met with misgivings from Chicago Mayor Richard Daley – traditionally an advocate for gay and lesbian issues – as well as ministers, gay activists and social conservatives opposed to segregating gay students.

As the school board’s Nov. 18 vote approached, designers of the Social Justice Solidarity High School tried to broaden its mission, pitching the campus as a refuge for bullied youths in general and removing references to sexual orientation in the proposal. But they withdrew their proposal at the last minute, pledging to return with another version of the plan in time for an opening in the fall of 2010.

Z said...

Oh, MAN, FJ... a 'gay friendly' school...ya, I'd heard he was into transgender school stuff, too.

Funny, I'm quite sure no kid I knew at 7 yrs old even knew about sex let alone that he was the wrong one.. Today, there's a school with a special bathroom for confused 7 yr olds. oy.

WHAT THE..............??

Anonymous said...

Around these parts, the bad kids and losers are the ones that get all the attention. The authorities take em' to movies and all sorts of things trying to cajole them into line. Moral of the story, if you want free stuff and attention, become a useless POS.

Work hard, keep your nose clean and you'll end up funding the rest of the parasites. That's socialism in reality for you. So i guess they might as well pay the ones that excel, everyone else is getting paid in one way or another.

Pat Jenkins said...

schools start paying kids for good grades and it is going to put the grandmas of the world out of buisness......

Ducky's here said...

Yeah, funny about that, Farmer. You have to fully understand the rules to effectively break them.

Z said...

MK. ..I so understand your point.
At the preschool where I teach my music/Wee Americans class, the teachers grab the crying nasty ones and hug and cajole. I tell them "Please, he just got lots of attention for having been BAD!"

So, we're putting them on a chair and pulling them away from my group if they're grotty again. THEN, I encourage them, once everybody's calm, to lower themselves to the child's eyesight and ask what's wrong and can they help...to connect and see what was bothering them. They're only THREE and four, for heaven's sake. But, the truth is we must not ignore those who are quiet and good and cater to the nasties. You're right.

Freedomnow said...

I much prefer paying kids for good grades than segregating them.

Arne is a bit of a wacko in any case.