Love McCain or hate McCain? Base the affection on his heroism for this country, or base the hate on how he was no hero but 'uses it for this election'?
I don't believe we can choose a President based solely on service or heroism, but I sure do think that, when we read any article about any presidential candidate, it's important to see an underlying agenda in its writing before we champion its cause and make a decision. This one (same link as 'no hero' above) has agenda all throughout the thing, don't you think?
You have to ask yourself what agenda the British could possibly have in The Telegraph for touting McCain's heroism.
I think all of these are important to read and digest. Which side do you tend to come down on here? and thanks to Free Thinker who sent me the article from the Telegraph!
33 comments:
Zin;
You the Americans should be proud to have an alive HERO as candidat for presidential election.
An Hero like McCain with a bagage of HEROIC RESISTANCE under the torture and the worst type of mistreatment, can be the best choice and a gift of GOD for a nation who is losing his faith on freedom,
I believe strongly that Freedom is in danger with the Growing Islamism who is purchassing the Nuclear weapon, you need an strong and solid leader and your soldiers need to have a commander of chief who has the experience of the batle field.
I was talking by phone with an imminent professor in LA. he told me about the McCain's Heroism and his strong personality.
The Professors are mostly Democrats, but, my friend assured me that McCain will be the next president,
He told me that, McCain was the last released prisoner, because he rejected the viet's offer, and he suffered of extensive tortures and mis-treatments.
You have to publish everywhere his passed heroic Resistance,
These points can stimulate the youth and undecieded people.
I Wish you all, a very good McCain's Campagne and GOOD PRESIDENTIAL election.
SAM
Thank you, SAM. I couldn't agree more. McCain is our "best bet"–––our only hope really.
~ FreeThinke
SAM, coming from you, your info re: the Islamists is so appreciated, though frightening because you know so much more than we do! I will be discussing your piece here and look forward to you getting more of it to me so I can cut and edit and come up with something I know the readers will enjoy and learn a lot from, especially the sensitivity by Iranians of another American hero!
So, the professor you spoke to is also a Democrat (no surprise, of course!) and feels McCain will WIN? Was he actually FOR McCain?
Thanks for your good wishes, I look forward to your coming by here often! merci z
FT: Sad, but true. We have to get together and fight either of the two Dems. Have you SEEN the kind of information coming out about Michelle Obama and things she wrote about in Princeton? I think some of it can be chalked up to youthful inexperience and passions, and I'm sure the Left will gloss over her hideous assertions with these excuses, but when you consider that AND her choice of church for the last 20 years, and how she's STILL only been proud of America now since her husband's candidacy, it's undeniable that she is less pro America than she is pro Black America. We need a president sensitive to it ALL and a wife who represents us ALL.
The Professor votes always democrat, but, this time he will vote McCain, he said me that, there is no comparaision between McCain and the other both.
He had an interesting analysis about why the Americans will vote massively McCain.
For me; reading the history of McCain and his extrem Resistance under the most horrible of sevices during 6 long years with broken bones, but, staying strongly on his principals and defending always the cases of the other prisonners has a deep message in it.
The message is;
"First of all, he should be dead, under such a hard conditions, he can not stay alive and ", so, I think that he was kept ALIVE by the will of PROVIDENCE for the special hard days.
Zin;
I'm a resistant, I have seen the deaths, I have more than 30 years of Resistance behind me, Your McCain is somebody,
During that the two dems are blackmailing each other, McCain came to Iraq, to visit the troops and to talk with the responsibles.
During that the two others are fighting with each other for their personal victory, McCain is thinking about the dangers that can harm the USA.
So, the comparaision is quiet simple, you have two TV Champions one side, and a nation's FATHER other side.
SAM
SAM, I am not getting much traffic on this piece about mcCain and so I am going to wait on introducing you to my friends who visit my site. I want everyone to know about you! (Is there more to the American story? If not, let me know, if so, please send a little more, I have much editing to do so it's not TOO long to publish!) ..Anway: , let me just tell you that this comment about McCain and what your Democrat professor said makes me proud to know you, my friend. And it gives me HOPE! And I am so hoping you are right that providence is what saved McCain to be president, because many conservatives (including me) are not totally convinced he's a good candidate..>BUT, having said that, considering the climate in America right now? You may JUST be right.
(that means even Free Thinker's been right all along....imagine that? Smile, FT....just a little joke!! :0)!!
Thank you, SAM. You are inspiring me. But, then, you always do. God bless you, my friend. I am SO proud to have you commenting here. thank you. xxx Z
I don't know what to say about this, I was hoping others would have strong opinions, and maybe as Monday dawns others will chime in. I also saw that piece about McCain's heroism and it did give me pause, made me wonder if maybe he's worth voting for after all. Loyalty and backbone are great qualities to have in a President after all, but . . .
I await other input.
Wow, and I didn't even see SAM's input. VERY encouraging. Is it really so? Can we really count on McCain???
I am hoping for a lively discussion of this, too, cj...I'll never be of the mind that JUST BECAUSE someone's serviced heroically he is president material, but it certainly can't hurt! (tho one of those links sort of showed it COULD, I found it silly and only included it to show the fringe type of info out there)...
Yes, SAM's input was fascinating; to think a Los Angeles liberal professor thinks McCain's the man...and will win, is QUITE encouraging! let's hope tomorrow brings more good input to the discussion. Thanks for yours.
Phillip Butler is a brave man and a hero, but he is also a raving moonbat. He said;
"I'm disappointed to see John represent himself politically in ways that are not accurate. He is not a moderate Republican. On some issues he is a maverick. But his voting record is far to the right. I fear for his nominations to our Supreme Court, and the consequent continuing loss of individual freedoms, especially regarding moral and religious issues. John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist ministers lately."
Butler is a huge booster for the Democratic Party and supported John "Botched Joke" Kerry...
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=3714
After spending a sizable portion of the above linked article bragging about his service record, Butler ends the article by saying that he is "proud...to call Senator John Kerry a Vietnam brother whom I honor and respect".
I suppose he is very proud of Kerry's Winter Soldier lies and his illegal negotiations with an enemy country during a time of war.
Z,
Like your Blog -- Thanks for visiting mine.
We should sincerely pray for McCain. He is so liberal in so many areas -- he could ruin the Conservative movement forever.
However, if Obama or Billery get in -- we are the whole country is sunk from the get-go.
In Christ eternally,
ExP(Jack)
No man came to the Hanoi Hilton better prepared to resist than John McCain. All those demerits, restrictions and tours at the Academy prepared him well.
Jimmy Carter was a USNA grad as well... only he was a "rule follower", not a "maverick".
And given a choice between the two, I'll take a man who values true liberty over the 'appearance of liberty' any day of the week.
G_d speed, John McCain!
Politically, I'm on the hotter side of lukewarm for McCain, but his heroism (at least in captivity as a POW) is unquestionable.
McCain is benefitting more from the inferiority of choice on the Democratic Party side.
"Watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical... a liberal..."
freedomnow...great to have you here. You sure do have a big fan in nanc! A mighty recommendation, right?! Welcome.
And yes..I saw that bias, too, and am glad you did. I couldn't even imagine his writing such a slam on McCain and including all that he said...so transparent.
ExPreacherman...a big welcome to you, too. Thanks for stopping by.
And YES, thanks for your words of wisdom: We may not think McCain is just right for Conservatism, but we have to think of the country first. I keep reminding Conservatives who say "I'M NOT VOTING" of the SUPREME COURT .. at least there's reason to believe he'll be wise in those selections which are certain to come up...and those are LIFELONG appointments, right!? And IMAGINE America with Pres Hillary or Obama Hussein Barack and THEIR SCOTUS selections?? Please get that word out!! We all have to.
FJ....your remark about liberty is EXACTLY the point..as usual!
Beamish....There might not have ever been a candidate who benefited as much as McC will from the Dem candidates. Fingers crossed.
When you look at the alternatives, how could you even dream of voting for anyone BUT McCain?
I have to admit Rush Limbaugh's persistent dislike and ardent mockery of McCain influenced me for a long time. [I still like Rush and am grateful to him, but I think he's wrong on this, and ought to put it aside and advocate party unity.] Also McCain's flat, tinny, rather whiney-sounding little voice and halting delivery when speaking in public is hardly inspiring.
However, given the realities we must deal with like it or not, I have come 'round to a clear, honest admiration for McCain, and feel we MUST unify our efforts and support him. It is obvious from what he has endured–––something very close to CRUCIFIXION, if we are to believe the testimony presented–––that he has more intestinal fortitude than all the other candidates put together. His courage and endurance have been tested in the very fires of HELL, and his character, therefore is stronger than IRON. Such men are exceedingly rare.
To expect outright "honesty" and -perfect CONSISTENCY in a politician is completely unrealistic. Trust me, you'll never find such a creature holding an elective office.
The public's hatred and fear of pure TRUTH is so great that Christ, Himself, would be put to death all over again were He to appear once again in our midst. [We'd be very likely to dismiss Him as a self-serving demagogue or a "crackpot." It is the height of conceit and arrogance to imagine that we would RECOGNIZE Him if he inhabited flesh once again.]
Life almost never accords us the luxury of making a clear choice between pure good and pure evil. Instead, we must always choose what-we-hope-is the least of several vastly imperfect alternatives, and make a leap of faith that we've made the best possible decision.
Barack Obama has a beautiful, clear, well-modulated baritone voice, good diction, and good grammar. Also he is nicely free of any serious trace either of an ethnic or a regional accent. AND he has "The Gift of Gab." He can sway the masses with the power of his animal magnetism (i.e. "charisma"). He can make the most vacuous platitudes sound earnest, committed, even powerful––––until you start thinking about the content of his remarks–––but Alas! few of his hearers will ever get that far.
Obama has the all the makings of a first-rate DEMAGOGUE. His manner may be appealing on the surface, but virtually ALL of his associations and the ungodly sympathies they imply say to me that inside he is a HISSING SERPENT poised to strike and inject this country with a deadly toxin from which we will never recover.
~ FreeThinke
Let's face it, if nothing else this administration has taught us that a "walk softly but carry a big stick" acta non verba political style is suicidal in a democracy fed by a 24 hour news cycle. The political and communications systems favour a demogogic populist Athenian rhetoritician like Caesar over a laconic Spartan warrior like Brutus 7 days a week.
If McCain wins in November, he'd better hire one 'H of a great PR firm that comes out swinging to narrate the play by play. The RNC cannot survive another Bush-like public relations term.
But if his campaign is any indicator, it's a lesson McCain hasn't yet mastered.
Won't you sign up your name, we'd like to feel you're
acceptable, respecable, presentable, a vegtable!
FJ..Ceasar and Bush in the same sentiment don't work, do they! Not from the rhetoric point of view, anyway. That stopped when Fleischer left; he had a chance with him there. He was tougher, he was well spoken and experienced.
McCain would be well served by Ari Fleischer. We can hope. Or someone at least as tough as he is. The media had Bush in the palm of their hand.
I'd like to see embeds kicked out of war zones, too, personally.
And, is it too much to ask for a return to "Story at 5, film at 11"? Back to when we didn't have to tell about every single car chase in the country, every star's eating or drug problem, every single bank robbery or abduction, or cat in a tree? I think it's unhealthy and we'd all do a LOT BETTER without so much news.
Hi All,
Those who try to minimize McCain's horror at the "Hanoi Hilton", will come off as cold and downright mean. Whatever disagreement one may have with Senator McCain, what he endured while a POW, was excruciatingly real, and true.
Mr. Butler's rant sounds self-serving and tinged with envy. He cannot argue the facts which are widely known, and not refuted. To say that others experienced the fate of torture, does not minimize McCain's experience. It only serves to illuminate what the environment was that these men endured.
The difference is, Senator McCain is running for President. He has a right to present his own history to the people. This part of his history is indeed filled with suffering, and heroism.
The manchurian candidate scenario rings of something other worldly. An accusation which cannot be disproven yet could be said about anyone. Throw it out there and see if it sticks.
There is no doubt that his experience as a POW had to have had some lasting effects, but to say he was brainwashed is merely speculation at best.
Many years have passed since that time. To cite that he has a temper is tame compared to being a manchurian candidate. It was said that George W. Bush had a temper too.
There have been a few times during his Presidency I hoped to see it. I'm still waiting.
I'm not voting for McCain because he survived torture and made a success of his life, admirable as that is.
I'm voting for him because he will stay on offense in the war against Islamism and it's impending threat to our country.
I'm voting for John McCain because surrender is not an option.
Pris
Philip Butler's words are about as good a recommendation for voting FOR John McCain as anyone could hope to get. Libloons can be very persuasive in ways they do not intend.
Kudos to Farmer John also. (Good to see you again, FJ. It's been a long time since you deigned to grace the pages of FPM. Wise man you are! I, myself, recently took the pledge to quit that morbidly Mideast-centric rag once and for all, and removed it from my list of favorites. After eight years, it was long past time to move on.)
~ FreeThinke
Z, I agree wholeheartedly about the Toxic Wasteland that 24-hours news channels have created, but the best–––and ONLY––––way to combat it is to vote with your remote control. Watch reruns of I Love Lucy or Bonanza, if you have to watch something, but STAY AWAY from CNN, MXNBC and yes FOX.
FOX's tabloid "urinalism" [Thank you, Rush Limbaugh!] is beyond disgusting. It's almost as bad as The Jerry Springer Show and even worse than Oprah, frankly.
If enough people express their fatigue and disgust with this unneeded, unwholesome phenomenon, eventually it will DIE OUT, as well it should. CNN started a FAD.
Fads always give out after a while. Just be patient.
~ FreeThinke
Freethinke;
Any time I read a piece of you, I learn too much and I like your language more and more, you'r representing a kind of pure values that are going to be vanished, If I could have a professor like you, I could choose literature and human sciences instead of the material's sciences;
VOTRE ENCOURAGEMENT, M'HONNORE
SAM
I read an article today that the Soros group/John Pedesto crowd are having difficulty raising money for the groups committed to running anti-McCain ads. They wanted to already be on air but since the Dem primary season is still in play the contributions are going to the candidates instead of these cloaked groups.
SAM, I am encouraging FreeThinker to start a blog and include his writing, his poetry, etc.. Don't you think that would be excellent? I'm glad you think so much of him, too.
KAREN.....gee, don't you hate to see Soros foiled? (smile) I hate to think how much money Obama will rake in should he get the nomination....every kid's piggy bank will be lying on the floor in little pink shards, from obeying the kid's teacher$$$
Still....as pessimistic as I was when I thought Obama could get the nod (I figured nobody could beat him), I'm thinking there must be some pretty good dirt on him if the Rev WRight stuff's already out..something bigger might be waiting. ON the other hand, if Hillary can't find it, NOBODY can find it.
I think we're in the hands of the DNC and RNC respectively .... I'm not even sure there won't be so much voter fraud that our votes will matter, anyway. Compliments of Soros,I'll bet. he'll do ANYTHING ANYTHING to beat a Republican.
uhoh..back to pessimism.
Z,
Our pal Nanc sings praises of me because she knows how to take care of her friends.
I can sleep comfortably at nite because I know she is watching over our blog kingdom!
Keep up the good bloggin. Its my pleasure to stop by...
FJ,
This election cycle is definitely a Supertramp song.
There hasn't been much of a shift in the reliable poll numbers. If the general election were held today, McCain would eke out a win against Hillary, and absolutely monkeystomp Obama.
And Obama is the "frontrunner."
This is on McCain's strength with the "independents" and "moderates" - it's almost as if the conservative vote is waiting for Hillary to get the DemoKKKrat nomination before they'll commit to McCain (not that Obama is going to draw conservatives to him)
If even half of the conservative bloc of voters turn out for McCain, he'll not only win, but it will be a landslide. You don't consistently carry 2/3rds of moderates and independents in polls and worry about losing elections.
Even lifelong Democrats are going to be voting for McCain.
Z,
Here's my weather forecast:
Obama's ties to Antoin Rezko (who is tied to money laundering for Saddam Hussein and Hezbollah) get more play in the media - "Obama, why do you live in a house paid for by terrorism?"
Followed by 24/7 news coverage of the public trial of Khalid Sheikh Muhammad and other 9/11 planners and plotters, highlighting key failures of the "counter-terrorism" [sic] efforts of the Clinton administation - just wait for the left to start screaming - "Wait, we want secret trials for terrorists after all..."
All of this converging in a perfect storm right in the middle of the DemoKKKratic National Convention race war in July.
President McCain. Are you used to saying it yet?
FT,
Yeah, I left FPM with the first wave of "censorship" along w/ Big Bubba, Mr. Ducky, Beak & Samwich, et al. It was kinda nice to get away from the "all Middle East - all the time" format. And you should listen to Z and start your own blog. Ducky's still a "homeless blogger", but eventually even Nanc broke down and started her own...
Z,
Yeah, Bush/rhetoric are incongruous terms. And you're right, McCain needs a good PR guy like Ari... but he also needs something more. He needs an "attack machine" that will crush his critics. The Plame/ Joe Wilson affair was badly mishandled and ended up turning some potential positives into a tremendous negative.
beamish,
The press corps are probably kicking themselves right now over all the fawning Congressional maverick and 2000 election "Straight Talk Express" coverage they've given McCain over the years... They'll sound to the public like the worst sort of hypocrites come September when they draw all their pens and start stabbing McCain in the back as the Presidential race reaches its' post-Convention climax...
Thank you SAM, it was very kind of you to say that to me.
I appreciate Z's encouragement too always. Don't know whether I'm "up" to founding and maintaining a blog of my own.
There seems to be a very nice sense of community building right here.
I realize I am too outspoken much of the time, but I believe it is all right to be very frank when I am among friends.
Thanks again. Compliments are very rare these days. Complaints are all too common. ;-)
Be of good cheer!
~ FreeThinke
FJ,
It's really not the media's fault that the Democrats have boiled down their prospects to a grueling choice between "my husbynd was President" and "I'm happy to be here."
Sure, they'll stick with Obama for (after all, they said "he'll make a great President in 2008..." in the middle of John Kerry's 2004 nomination convention) but I think they'll begin destroying him with zeal once Hillary secures Pennsylvania.
Now would be a good time for McCain to begin calling for continued funding of military operations in Iraq for the 2009 budget year (begins October 2008).
Start calling out the opposition.
Great day in the morning, a man who can take the stuff McCain endured for those years has to be one tough old bird.
Plain, old fashioned tough.
Trial by fire like most of us have never ever seen.
Z, the VC wanted to use McCain as a propaganda piece , offering the one thing that meant the most..freedom.
I have met men who were in VC prison camps for long periods of time, it is pure Hell and to make it out alive is so freaking remarkable.
Like it or not, because of McCain's past, he has the moral authority to say some things that need to be said now at this point in time, in this country to the world.
WVDOTTR
I too , know of Democrats who say they will vote for John McCain in November.
WVDOTTR
Is that right, West Virginia daughter? Dems who say they're voting McCain?
WHAT is going ON? Don't tell me you were right in suggesting we haven't lost all Americans to addle brained media worship and professorial indoctrination!! HURRAH!
You have no idea how many people in this country actually do care and love America.
All we hear 24-7 it seems is about the freaks , the anti American crowd, but the ones who love HER are still here.
This state has so many vets, and give a lot of sons and daughters to the military.
WVdottr.
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