Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Free .... at the peril of us?

SO, a dear close relative of mine is paying through the nose for her son to be educated at Berkeley.........but HERE is a story about illegal aliens getting it for free.   Do I think some kids deserve help?  Of course.  Do I think it's fair for my relative and even friends of mine to borrow money for their children to attend good schools (LOTS of money$$$)...NO.

 Your thoughts?   Isn't this demoralizing for any American kid?   So sad.   What do you think?

And, by the way, who's paying for these kids? My relative and my friends. And us.
z

38 comments:

Ducky's here said...

"The University of California's Berkeley campus announced on Tuesday that a private foundation has given $1 million to fund scholarships for illegal immigrants."

---------
The foundation is clearly empowered to make that grant.
Is the problem that scholarship funds should only exist for certain groups?

Always On Watch said...

Those who have sacrificed and, therefore, saved up to pay for their children's higher education are often punished by the institutions of higher learning when those institutions make the decision as to who will receive scholarships. More of "punish the wealthy" -- even if the wealthy aren't really wealthy at all, particularly with regard to liquid assets or assets that are easily converted to liquid.

Family after family in the homeschool group has experienced the above. A few families ended up selling their homes to finance their children's higher education. I'm not speaking of large families, either. Most of the families in my homeschool group have only 1-2 children.

"White bread" is not the preferred brand at many institutions of higher learning.

Silverfiddle said...

It its private money, then I agree with Ducky.

The larger issue I have is how the federal government shovels money in to Big Ed's voracious maw, contributing to out of control higher education costs.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Leave Big Ed's maw alone.
Oh. You meant something else.

Ed Bonderenka said...

BTW, the real problem here is your friend sending the kid to Berkeley in the first place.
Unless your friend want the kid to lose any meaningful values.

Ed Bonderenka said...

And if that "private foundation" is aiding and abetting illegal behavior, maybe we should be concerned.

Z said...

Ducky, yes, I think scholarship funds should only exist for white evangelicals.
No, of course, they shouldn't exist for certain groups. Illegal immigrants are illegal, Ducky.
"you're illegal, but we're going to pay for your to stay AND for your education"
Really?

AOW.........Actually, I'm hearing that schools across the country are just starting to look for more white Americans with good grades because they've tipped the scales with the illegals who don't have the grades but needed to go to the school so the liberals are happy.

SF; private money to illegals...while we're trying to halt illegal immigration's a tough one for many.

Ed...that's what I almost said :-)
"Not Big Ed Bonderenka!"
Just giving scholarships to illegals is aiding and abetting.

Obviously, the funding being private is better than our paying for it at Berkeley, but let's not kid ourselves; when illegal kids with grades not quite so good are favored at state universities, WE are paying.
This young man I'm talking about laughs less at the liberality of Berkeley and more at the astonishing hubris and elitism shown by the more liberal profs who will not listen to other viewpoints; and that DOES happen, according to him.


JonBerg said...

OK, $1,000,000/200 (students)= $5,000 per student. It is reported that UCB tuition= $12,462* per year; >$49,848 for four years. Question: Where will the balance come from? It should also be noted that tuition at UCB was $6,654** in 2008; an 87% increase in four years! What drives that?


*The World Almanac 2012

** The World Almanac 2008

Pris said...

"Is the problem that scholarship funds should only exist for certain groups?"

No Ducky, the problem is that there's another solution to paying tuition. And that is evidently not even considered by most students, or parents.

Our son worked his way through college. We didn't have the money to pay for his tuition in those days. He was given flex time where he worked.
Now, that was not easy for him, but even with that, he graduated from the university with a 3.65 GPA!

If any young person wants to go to college he/she can do it. Yes it's hard, but it's also character building, as Mr. Pris used to say.

He wasn't a spoiled brat who thought everyone owed him something, and never thought of himself as a victim. He simply did what he had to do!

Anonymous said...

FROM Z:

Pris, if I wasn't sitting here at work looking like I'm writing up some important project, I'd stand up and applaud your comment. WELL SAID.
"WORK, pals...OUR KIDS DO!"

Jon..you're a wealth of information and have an astonishing way of zeroing in on the truth like that...yes, where DOES the other money come from?
Excellent question. (but, really, need we ask? :-( )

conservativesonfire said...

If it is government tax money being used then it is no different from any affirmative action program< one group is helped at the expense of everyone else. There is nothing "fair" about it.

Anonymous said...

Hi ConsonFire (FROM Z at work)

It's not government funded, but see Jon's comment; who's picking up the rest of the tab?

Oh, and by the way...it's WAY more than $12 K a year with room and board....WAY.

Dave Miller said...

With private money, a major US university decides to give people a hand up in their quest for a fist class education.

People, who while they are here with out documentation and were brought, through no fault of their own, meet the academic standards of the university.

And because of this we hear kids called spoiled brats for working hard enough to win a full or partial scholarship and wrongfully accused of accepting government money, even though the article clearly says it is private money.

Is it any wonder conservatives these days have a hard time convincing Latino voters that they are wanted in the GOP?

Seriously, why does anyone care who a private foundation chooses to help send to college?

Anonymous said...

From Z:

Seriously, Dave, why would you come and comment so disdainfully without reading the other comments?

And, by the way, I know of WAY too many stories where white American citizens with excellent grades are denied university so illegals or minorities with lesser grades can get in.
And, while you're at it, please read JonBerg's comment and you speculate on who's picking up the difference in a Univ. of California...

We are tired of Americans being demoralized by this behavior...and TRUST ME, I know this first hand. Too well.

Of COURSE immigrant children deserve a chance here, but to come first? really?
And to come first with oftentimes lesser grades?

Ducky's here said...

Couple points from the original post.

First, the recipients are called "illegal". Now after recent legislation, which you may or may not agree with - irrelevant, they are not "illegal".

Second - It is stated that "we" are paying for it. No, the foundation is paying.

A reading of the linked article makes it very clear this isn't public money so I don't know why the confusion.
Lot of errors to make posting up a simple two paragraph article.

JonBerg said...

"Oh, and by the way...it's WAY more than $12 K a year with room and board....WAY."

Oh, how right you are! With room and board it's currently $27,770 (source previously identified). So, assuming no increases (HA!), this would equate to $111,080 upon completion of the Baccalaureate level. So the "scholarship" portion would amount to about 4.5% of the total. My question remains: Where does the balance come from?

Anonymous said...

From Z:

Right...THEY called them ILLEGALS in the article. No matter of what ridiculous legislation's happened; American kids are passed over. GET IT?

PLEASE read the comments...jonBerg is absolutely right.
It's much more than $12K and they don't all live in Berkeley or Oakland so they need housing and food, too. $$$$


JonBerg, "Where does the balance come from?" Indeed.


TO EVERYONE:

Here's the rub:

Dave Miller and Ducky don't understand:

This post is about American kids...born here, parents have paid taxes for years, etc. They're passed over.

This does NOT MEAN WE HATE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS;
THIS DOES NOT MEAN WE HATE MEXICANS OR SALVADORANS OR GUATEMALANS.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING OF THE KIND AND THE SUBTLE IMPLICATIONS ARE IN BAD TASTE, UNFAIR, AND, FRANKLY RIDICULOUS.

THANKS.Z

Ducky's here said...

Dave Miller and Ducky don't understand:

This post is about American kids...born here, parents have paid taxes for years, etc. They're passed over.

------
Are you that delusional that you think there are no scholarship funds for American kids?

Don't try to hide it, z. As long as you're dealing with the "cute little Hispanics in the service industry (YOUR EXACT WORDS)" everything is fine.
But when the kids of one of those service workers reaches for social mobility ... well, we know what's going on here.


Anonymous said...

From Z:

Ducky, VERY good try. But "Cute little Hispanics" isn't in my vocabulary. as you know, that's probably the most patronizing comment anybody could make.
On the other hand, if you're truly not racist, what's wrong with it? Cute?...some are.
Little? ...depends on the subject; why would I use that unless they were auditioning for the part of Billy Barty's life story?

As I've said here MANY times, the hispanics I know are amazingly kind and helpful and sweet......"cute", probably notsomuch.

Funny you talk about the service industry; I told a hispanic at the grocery store the other day, who I know quite well from dealing with her so much, that I was so proud of her because she's not satisfied with working in the deli dept...she'll be a checker or maybe assist.mgr. She's sharp, well spoken with an accent and can't be helpful enough. What I told her was I was glad her English was so good so she can go up the ladder and I hoped her friends realize how important that is, too. She agreed.
Not that I ever have to explain myself to you, of course.

Did I say there are no scholarships for American kids? I hear scholarship talk most of the day.... Why do you take THIS INFORMATION ABOUT NON CITIZENS and extrapolate that anybody says American kids don't get scholarships? Boy, you'll go to any length to criticize and that's nuts.

But, you know, Ducky? You read this blog all day long, for years, and STILL think I'm racist and uninformed so, I'm thinking you're simply uninclined to the truth.

Anonymous said...

FROM Z:

Just one more darned thing:

Conservatives WANT IMMIGRANTS TO SUCCEED. I AM FIRST AND SECOND GENERATION...my family didn't speak English when they got here. Grandfather learned it at the age of 9 and owned the three best high-end grocery stores in Troy, NY by the time he was 30 or so...maybe younger. He didn't have affirmative action and he had no special English education; just SCHOOL until half of high school then he had to leave to support his family... and brother, DID he. With NO HELP FROM ANYBODY.

We think ANYBODY can make it here...come legally, work hard, learn the language and BE AMERICANS.

sorry if that disgusts you so much...darn, some people make it without the government. And many still are...go figure.

Waylon said...

As the parent of a first year university student, I think there is too much stress placed on young people to above all else "go to university". There's beginning to be a lot of cynicism developing in young people who take this advice, go deeply into debt, get good grades and graduate—to find out that getting employed where they expected isn't happening. They are finding out that they've been lied to and may have to accept a level of employment far below the professional level they were led to believe.

Another issue is the far-out lunacy of some of the courses that are offered and that they are expected to enter for credit, outside the required courses for the profession they have chosen. Example: A first year engineering student being told that they can't take an elective course in biology but instead a course in American sign language is selected for that student.

He's finding out what bee ess lies behind these globalist type "educators" promoting this crap along with "sustainability" and other pet subjects.

JonBerg said...

How, in the World, did the generations and generations of [legally] landed immigrants and their progeny ever reach the point that [they] must now, one way or the other, subsidize the well being of those who are here [illegally]?

FreeThinke said...

The worst part of what you have said, Z, is that friends of yours have scrimped and saved to send their precious child to such a prodigious dispenser of toxic intellectual and spiritual waste as BERKELEY!

Ye gods! I'd rather see my children consigned to mining coal in West Virginia or maintaining the tracks at a roller coaster in Disney World than to subject them the process of poisonous indoctrination offered at Anus Mundi University.

EEEEEEEEEEEEUW!!!

Anonymous said...

FROM Z:

Waylon, I've often said here that university should never be the 'be all and end all'....in Germany, there's a wonderful program by which kids are tested and weigh in with their desires/talents and go either to University or apprenticeship training (which is grueling... and LONG so they become expert in whatever craft they select)
thanks for coming by.

JB..it's just plain DEAD WRONG and I believe manyt legal Hispanics recognize that.

FT...not at all. Berkeley is still an excellent institution of learning if you've raised your children to be discerning and are able to cut the liberal indoctrination baloney. And, of course, not all majors involve politics...sciences, etc.

excellent school...ridiculously tainted by teachers many of whom must be overcome by the students with brains, not respected.

Leticia said...

I am very concerned on how we are going to pay for our boys to attend college and I DO NOT think it's fair that illegals get a free ride, just because they are illegals.

This burns me up! Instead of deporting them or making them pay for their schooling, nope, they are rewarded.

It seems the illegals get more help than American citizens that are probably just as poor and struggling to make ends meet, and yet still have to pay for their kid's education.

Something has got to be done about this. It's deplorable.

Thersites said...

The foundation pays for all of UC Berkeley's many taxpayer subsidies? Who knew???

Liberalmann said...

Wha, wha wha, WHERE'S MINE!! WHERE'S MINE!! WHERE'S MINE!! WHERE'S MINE!!

Kid said...

Put me in charge and every child will be educated like Thomas Edison and Albert Einstein were. For pennies. And no computers.

Anonymous said...

FROM Z:

Leticia, what a poignant and powerful testimony...you'll be going through this exact thing and paying instead of a free ride, which I believe you wouldn't take, anyway; I think this is a HUGE part of the difference between Conservatives and Liberals.

And there's Liberalmann right now not understanding the situation...he's mocking us but, really, that is EXACTLY what liberals are saying....and they add "AND WHERE IS YOUR MONEY SO THOSE WHO DON'T MERIT IT CAN SUCCEED?" so sad. And he votes.

Thersites?

Kid...exactly. Give them a chalk board, paper and pencils, good books, good teachers and let them go...they will learn. And better, FAR better than most are now.
And, please, TEACH THEM CURSIVE HANDWRITING! That's absolutely gone, did you know that?

Kid said...

Z, You must be thinking this Einstein quote -
“I fear the day when the technology overlaps with our humanity. The world will only have a generation of idiots.”

Z said...

Kid! I'd never heard that ever...and was he RIGHT!

xxxx

Impertinent said...

@Kid

I think you'll like this:


http://stg.do/9LDc

Kid said...

IMP. Yes, Very good. Very good.

If I may... It doesn't matter what a person thinks of a religion or a God. There is no denying the struggle between Good and Evil on this rock. It has always been and it always will be.

Pick a side. Chumps.

JonBerg said...

Well, I asked a couple of questions and, as probably expected, no answers from the "progressive" (puke) side. No big surprise; reality is something that they can't deal with!

Thersites said...

ducky had said...

Second - It is stated that "we" are paying for it. No, the foundation is paying.

He's the one who is constantly defending the claim that we "didn't build it", our success is not our own. Here he's making the counter argument, and I'm just letting him know that his "hypocrisy", as always, is showing.

Thersites said...

...especially since UC Berkeley is NOT a private institution. It's existence is LITERALLY a PUBLIC subsidy.

Always On Watch said...

Z,
Sorry to returning late to this thread. My personal post today explains why -- nothing bad, just a busy day.

I'm hearing that schools across the country are just starting to look for more white Americans with good grades...

I'm not hearing that from my homeschool students, who often apply and get accepted to UVA or the Princeton Consortium.

Also, Fairfax County is moving in the direction of "more diversity" at Thomas Jefferson, the magnet school for math and science, and for years upon years with a mostly Asian and white student body; the entrance-test requirements have actually been waived for certain ethnic groups (African-American and Hispanic). The experiment has been in progress for several years now at TJ and is obviously a failure -- yet the county is still harping about the need for more diversity even as teachers and most students at TJ have voiced objections. In fact, so many educational problems have new emerged at TJ that some of the graduates are finding that the TJ diploma isn't as highly regarded at MIT as the TJ diploma used to be.

Always On Watch said...

Z,
Berkeley is still an excellent institution of learning if you've raised your children to be discerning and are able to cut the liberal indoctrination baloney.

IF is a very big word!

I know several students who have been "turned" in less that a semester. It happens all the time.