Wednesday, January 12, 2011

Loughner's family....did he kill them, too?

HERE is an article about the parents of Tucson killer Jared Loughner.

Do you think we need to know about them?  Do they owe us interviews, is it our right to hear their feelings?   Does the fact that some neighbor quoted in the article said Mrs Loughner always had at least 30 beers in her shopping card condemn them?   Is that information that should be known as if it has some bearing on raising a crazed kid??

What do you think?   Do they owe us anything?  Are they victims of this awful crime, too?   God forbid Jared Loughner was your son........what would you do?

geeeeZ

82 comments:

Linda said...

I don't think the parents owe us anything. As a parent myself, I know that we all want the best for our kids, and we want them to grow up to be responsible adults. I think most of us do the best we can, with the knowledge we have, at the time.

My heart goes out to the parents. So many people are ready to blame them for their son's actions, just like so many were so willing to blame the 'right' for what happened.

Linda said...

Follow-up, so I can see the following comments.

Dan said...

Sure, they can be condemned, raked over the coals, castigated, tried and convicted in the court of the press, or anything else; just so long as it's not a Christian doing it.

Dan said...

Hope you're feeling better

Z said...

Linda, I can't imagine how they feel....it's got to be just awful.

Dan, I'm not sure; I think it's open season if they're Christians.....
Thanks so much, I'm doing better.

Ducky's here said...

This kid was so profoundly disturbed that the question of why someone (primarily the parents) didn't act is a legitimate public safety question.

Z said...

Ducky, no doubt he was very profoundly sick and showed signs of it...but not all parents are equipped nor do they want to acknowledge problems........the fact that the schools never filed anything formal with all the problems he'd caused there is cause for concern.

beamish said...

Observing 30 beers in a shopping cart is only significant in the context of how often they went shopping for beer. Once a day? Once a week? Once a month?

More significant to me is Loughner's parents knew him to be a serious connoisseur of vanity published and historical revisionist / Holocaust denial books and films peddled on websites that cater to Swastika-bearing Old Left remnants of the Democratic Party's Ku Klux Klan terrorist wing. Materials recommended and championed by noted leftist crank Noam Chomsky and finding its intersection in kill-all-the-Jews-to-end-capitalism rhetoric expoused by socialist luminaries and labor activists like Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler, two authors that Loughner listed as favorites.

Seems like Loughner's parents should have pulled an intervention before he went off and did something nutty like smash windows of businesses or toss molotov cocktails in a protest of World Trade Organization conferences.

Or try to kill a Jewish Congresswoman.

beamish said...

This kid was so profoundly disturbed that the question of why someone (primarily the parents) didn't act is a legitimate public safety question.

Ducky, quick question. Put your guns and Molotov cocktails down for a moment and let's talk.

Do you suppose someone like yourself, with your prolific internet history of advocating the anti-Semitic canards and left-wing anti-capitalist conspiracy theories about America being robbed by a "Jewish welfare state" in Israel, your history of employing racial epithets and mysogynistic references against political opponents of your far left radicalism, and most explicitly your documented actions regarding a telephone call you made into an internet blog talk radio show to demand that Andrew Breitbart be "put in a body bag" are the warning signs of someone in deeply troubling need of serious psychological help?

I'm just wondering. How do we tell the difference between the leftists that will go apeshit homocidal at any given moment and the leftists that simply get a masturbatory rise out of aping Father Coughlin on Jewish-authored blogs?

Especially if you all "tone down" your rhetoric?

Faith said...

The main message I got about the parents was that they are torn up by guilt. I did cringe at the mention of the beers and the history of Jared's bad relationship with them. It used to be that family members were off limits to reporters covering any event whatever. That's the way it ought to be it seems to me. Otherwise, as you say, they become victims too.

I'm very glad to see Sarah Palin standing up to the press this morning accusing them of laying a blood libel on conservatives. Of course now they are objecting to her use of that term, although it's perfectly apt for a false accusation of murder. I like Palin in this role. I don't think I'd want her for President but I think she should be out there keeping the conservative position in the public eye.

FrogBurger said...

I wouldn't blame the parents personally.

Even if the guy was disturbed, till he hasn't committed a crime, he is not guilty of anything.

Putting someone in a psych ward or behind bars because he is dangerous, yet hasn't committed a crime, is very risky.

That opens the door to government officials telling people that don't agree with the official party line, whatever that is, to be judged as crazy.

I hope the media leave the parents alone. I had to stop watching Fox yesterday b/c seeing this reporter in front of the parents' house like a paparazzi was making me sick.

FrogBurger said...

This kid was so profoundly disturbed that the question of why someone (primarily the parents) didn't act is a legitimate public safety question.

To add to Beamish's comment, I remember Ducky, on the streaming radio, mentioning that someone (can't recall) should be put in a body bag.

I think for public safety, we should call the authorities.

This is a violent symbol and language that a anti-hate speech legislation ought to prevent.

Ducky's here said...

Beamish, you call me an anti-semite and then say let's talk?

Interesting.

Do I advocate that leftists be non violent in this atmosphere, yes.

Do I think that the economics are going to get so bad that there is violence in the land, yes.

Do I think political killings are rare? Yes, they are. What have we had in the last few decades. Moscone/Milk which was pretty much politically motivated. Although I suspect you were on the jury and thought the "twinkie defense" was adequate since one of the guys he killed was a homo.

Hinkley, who was triggered by something in the pop culture, "Taxi Driver". Disturbed as he was it was the film which prodded him.

I suspect Loughner was triggered by the crap from rabies radio, which is largely a fringe right industry. Will the right take responsibility. No, they never do because to admit doubt or fault questions revealed truth.

But lay the anti-semite card. It's convenient for someone with your incredibly limited creativity or imagination.

Jen said...

I suspect Loughner was triggered by the crap from rabies radio
---------

Oh crap!
If this is the case, how many mass murders can we look forward to at the hands of Olbermann/Maddow fanatics?

You may be onto something, Ducky. When I watch Olbermann for more than five minutes I DO want to go shoot someone, but it's ME, to stop the MISERY!

There's vitriol on both sides.

It is absolutely absurd to blame the right for what this kid did.

He was seriously mentally ill.

Period.

Jen said...

I think that the family should not be put in the media spotlight. They'll have more than enough trouble dealing with legal issues, threats from the public, and their own grief.

FrogBurger said...

Ducky, your body bag comment was inspired by whom?
Left wing media or your own insanity?

Z said...

a friend just got a big red X when she tried to click on my site..a big warning of an "unsafe WEBSITE"...anybody else get that at all?
Please let me know.

thanks

beamish said...

Where did you whacko labor lefties put Jimmy Hoffa's body anyway?

beamish said...

Z,

Yes, I've been getting certificate errors on your site (and a few others) since an automatic Windoze XP update was installed last night.

And, a post response to potential psycho killer Ducky I made right before my Jimmy Hoffa post above disappeared entirely.

FrogBurger said...

The fascist gov is working with MSFT and Google to monitor speech and symbols of violence.

I wonder if someone flipping someone off will become one of those symbols.

Linda said...

Nope, no big rid X!

beamish said...

[excuse me if an earlier version of this comment re-appears later after the Googlefascists allow the original to repost]

Beamish, you call me an anti-semite and then say let's talk?

Leftist, anti-Semite, imbecile, dormant nutlog genocidal maniac. History is rather comprehensive that these completely interchangeable terms belong in the same thesaurus entry.

Do I advocate that leftists be non violent in this atmosphere, yes.

In what atmosphere do you advocate leftists should be violent in?

Check out my comprehensive "assassin's creed" post at my blog. Leftists like yourself have been going haywire with politically motivated violence in America for almost 200 years. I can't find a genuine right-wing assassin among ANY of the long string of murders and attempted murders of politicians and public officials in American history. At all.

Answer the question, Mr. "put Andrew Breitbart in a body bag." How do we know you're not the next screwball clockwork orange just one soured mocha frappe away from going ding-dong?

Do I think that the economics are going to get so bad that there is violence in the land, yes.

We're very much aware of the left's hard-on fantasies to return labor unions to being the next dynamite throwing, bank robbing Saccho and Vanzetti syndicalist Mafia thugs.

Answer the question. You want Andrew Breitbart dead. What's going to set you off to get you to try to follow through? How do we distinguish you from your sick fellow travelers in the eternal revolution?

I've never called a talk show up and demanded live on the air that anyone be killed. You have. What was different about the "atmosphere" then, psycho boy?

Elmers Brother said...

I suspect Loughner was triggered by the crap from rabies radio, which is largely a fringe right industry. Will the right take responsibility. No, they never do because to admit doubt or fault questions revealed truth.

Wrong psycho boy...high school friend this morning on GMA said he never listened to talk radio.

Elmers Brother said...

no red X...Y....Z?

beamish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
FrogBurger said...

Thanks Beamish. It was Breitbard. Couldn't recall.

Do you have an archive so we can send it to his legal team? :)

Kwak, kwak.

beamish said...

Here Ducky. I've brought the mountain to you, oh prophet of rage...

beamish said...

He was seriously mentally ill.

Period.


Yes, Jen.

But, there is absolutely no evidence in the full course of humanity that leftists are anything but.

We need to drill a little deeper into this well. Let me toss out the names of some famous psychopaths and sociopaths that drew other psychopaths and sociopaths to their cause.

Labor activist Adolf Hitler - small government, free market capitalist libertarian conservative, or Jew-killing lefty?

Singer / songwriter environmentalist Charles Manson - conservative champion of law and order, or race war fantasizing dirty communal living hippie with the left-wing symbol of socialist supremacy tattooed on his forehead?

Religious sect founder Jim Jones - peaceful conservative Christian evangelist, or progressive socialist Maoism fanatic and suicide cult leader?

I can go on and on, but you get the point.

Who came out in droves in opposition to the overthrow of genocidal tyrant Saddam Hussein?

Who wants convicted cop killer Mumia Abu-Jamal freed from prison?

Who believes convicted Italian anarchist bank robbers and murderers Saccho and Vanzetti are innocent?

What are the politics of President McKinley's assassin? How about JFK's killer Lee Harvey Oswald? Was he a pro-Castro commie for the free toaster?

The left-wing is exclusively and uniquely psychotic and sociopathic.

There's not a damned one of them that is actually capable of rational thought. The "insanity defense" is merely an attempt to whitewash left-wing politics.

We should never hesistate to say so.

beamish said...

Over 300 million victims of leftism dead and counting.

When is leftism going to be fully discredited? 400 million? 500 million?

FrogBurger said...

When is leftism going to be fully discredited? 400 million? 500 million?

When we are all gone. Maybe the little green men will figure it out.

Anonymous said...

I went to my psychiatrist
To be psychoanalyzed;
To find out why I killed the cat
And blacked my spouse's eyes.
He laid me on a downy cot
To see what he could find,
And this is what he dredged up
From my subconscious mind:

REFRAIN:

Hey, libido! bats in the belfry
Hey, libido! bats in the belfry
Hey, libido! bats in the belfry
Jolly old Sigmund Freud!


When I was two my Mommy
Put my dolly in a trunk
And so it follows naturally
That I am always drunk.
When I was three I saw my father
Kiss the maid one day,
And that is why I suffer now
From klep-toe-may-nigh-a! HEY!

REFRAIN:

Hey, libido! bats in the belfry
Hey, libido! bats in the belfry
Hey, libido! bats in the belfry
Jolly old Sigmund Freud!


When I was four I had a feeling of
Ambivalence toward my bothers
And so it follows naturally
I poisoned all my lovers
But Oh how I appreciate the lesson
This has taught:
That everything I do that's wrong
Is SOMEONE' ELSE'S FAULT!


REFRAIN:

Hey, libido! bats in the belfry
Hey, libido! bats in the belfry
Hey, libido! bats in the belfry
Jolly old Sigmund Freud!

~ Anna Russell

The world's best loved International Concert Comedienne summed it up rather nicely, I've always thought.

Some people are just plain NUTS, and there AIN'T a whole lot any of us can do about it. SO, the next time you go shopping wear a crash helmet and a bullet proof vest. The life you save may be your own.

~ FreeThinke

PS: Take a look at The Bad Seed by Maxwell Anderson too while you're at it.

Anonymous said...

PS: Not all insane people are leftists, and not all leftists are insane. Some of the brightest, most creative, high-achieving individuals have been leftists -- just as not all of history's victims have been worthy individuals. Having been maltreated does not automatically confer sainthood on anyone.

Insanity and a propensity for violence seem to be spread pretty much at random throughout the population. Evil comes in many guises and parades under many different banners.

Simplistic thinking can be extremely dangerous.

On rare occasions radicalism that advocates violence CAN achieve good results. Our own revolution is the prime example. Lots of people suffered, and lots of people died, but the ideals of the Founders became reality as a result.

That was not true in most of the other revolutions where one form of tyranny and abuse of human rights merely supplanted another, and was in fact far worse than the regime it replaced.

Meanwhile, consider this motto made famous in AA:

ANGER is DANGER

~ FreeThinke

Faith said...

I don't get a red X -- which is a major virus warning from the Norton virus program -- but I've been getting a Question Mark sign from Norton for this site fairly frequently over the last few weeks -- which means Norton hasn't tested the site. I never used to get any kind of virus signal for this site at all.

Leticia said...

The parents should be left out of it unless they were actual perpetrators in the crime.

Regardless of how the shooter was raised, he made the choice to murder people and he alone is to blame.

Anonymous said...

I watched a documentary years ago about a mother whose son was a paranoid schizophrenic.

She spent years trying to commit him, but the most she could get was for him to be held for 72 hours to determine if he was a danger to himself or others.

He was found not to be, and had the right to sign himself out of the mental hospital.

The saddest part of this is, he would stop taking his medication, and take off, and his mother would go to great lengths to find him, even once traveling through four states to do so, and she did find him that time.

Still, she would be rebuffed by the mental health community, and institutions.

Her son saw people who were not there, and thought they were after him. He was paranoid. He heard voices, the whole nine yards. He was very sick.

This is thanks to the ACLU many years ago, that seriously ill mental patients have the right to sign themselves out if deemed not to be a danger. Of course this assumes the prognosis is correct.

The end of this story is, the mother lost her son. He took off again, and finally she couldn't find him. She probably had no choice but to give up, after years of trying to help him, and have him committed so at least she'd know he was safe, and she could visit him. This was not to be.

So, I would not indict his parents. We don't know what they knew or what they tried to do. As I see it, the family are victims too.

I understand he was a drug addict.
If you've ever watched Intervention on TV, you know the pain the families of these people endure, and without the user's cooperation, they're helpless.

The homeless community is filled with mentally disturbed people. Are we to assume some of them are not a danger? I don't assume that.


Ducky, how do we know Loughner wan't influenced by movie violence, and torture films? Be careful who you accuse. It seems to me Big Hollywood could be responsible, if you want to play that game.

However I'm not playing. I blame the killer. It's too easy to look to blame others, and very immature IMO.

We, as a society, cannot fix this. Not with bans, laws, or prohibitions, and I'm not willing to lose my freedom, in order to base our laws on the mentally insane.

To do so, is insanity in itself!

Pris

Anonymous said...

Oh, I forgot. Z, I didn't get a red X either.

Pris

Anonymous said...

The most interesting aspect of the finger pointing and charges of who or what drove Loughner to commit his act of insanity has to be the absolute hypocrisy of the mouthpieces on the left such as the Daily Kos and Huffington Post. these may be rabid voices of insanity as much as the delusions of the run-of-the-mill leftists and even Loughner.

How do you explain a post which appeared on Daily Kos on January 8 which states that Gabrielle Giffords was "as good as dead" to him. Then after the shooting the post is scrubbed from the Daily Kos
— but fortunately someone had captured the screen image for posterity. It's unlikely that Sherrif Dipstick will connect the dots and ask if this Tuscon poster might also have the same internet address as the accused assassin.

And of course the Daily Kos goes on pretending that it was "rabies radio" and Sarah Palin who were the cause of the insane act. The possibility also exists that this poster Boy Blue also posted the same thing at Huffington Post ...

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2011/01/daily-kos-blogg.html

Waylon

Anonymous said...

"When is leftism going to be fully discredited? 400 million? 500 million?"

Well if you ascribe leftism to the environmental mental illness (I do) then to arrive at the optimum world population as being about 350 million in the words of Ted Turner, it's not hard to see those power mad statist tyrants have only just begun or even barely started. Hitler, Stalin and Mao were just the preliminary warm-up acts.

Waylon

beamish said...

Not all insane people are leftists, and not all leftists are insane.

Beg to differ. No, not all insane people are leftists. But yes, all leftists are insane.

Some of the brightest, most creative, high-achieving individuals have been leftists

Really? Who's the brightest, most creative, high-achieving proponent of class struggle, wealth redistribution, property rights negating, secular proletarian collectivist you can think of?

My answer to that question would have to be this guy I went to high school with named Marshall. He prefered to be called "Mars," after the Roman god of war. He never had a legitimate paying job, ever, claiming as he did that "only fools work for a living." Instead he lived off of money he could make selling drugs and stolen car stereos, supplemented of course by steady state and federal welfare, food stamps, and Social Security checks because he was successful in convincing doctors that he had smoked enough PCP and crack cocaine to retard higher brain functioning enough to prevent him from ever credibly holding a job. Not that anyone would hire him anyway, as he could measure his time between encounters with soap in months, and his trumped up medical records to get welfare and SSI indicated he was prone to seizures so no one would want to hire him due to workman's comp and insurance risks should he white out and hit his head on something while on their property, a scam he had pulled a few times for extra cash. He was "bright," I suppose, in figuring out how to game the system that redistributed other people's wealth to him, and his burglaries and thefts to acquire more were all a disregard of other people's property rights. Though prefering the name of a god in the typically leftist belief that he was entitled to tribute and respect, he was fiercely atheist. He envisioned himself as the little revolutionary guy that struggled against "oppression" from the very things that fed his parasitic ideology with contempt for those who genuinely tried to help him.

At his peak, he had three fully paid HUD apartments in government housing under false identities, running a heroin shooting gallery out of one and a crack brothel out of another.

He died in a gunfight with someone who didn't share his collectivist views about their Camaro.

Anonymous said...

Fragments from an interesting piece on ALBERT EINSTEIN from a leftist website:

... Albert Einstein may have been the world's most famous scientist but as an anti-militarist, anti-racist, socialist and internationalist... His very popularity made him a priority target for Hoover's G-men in the hope of damaging Einstein's, and socialism's, credibility.

... Hoover defended US capitalism and its military might against "disloyal" dissenters like Einstein who wanted a more equal, more just and more peaceful world. ...

... the State Department relented but, along with the FBI, War Department and Immigration and Naturalization Service, continued to keep tabs on the draft-dodger and pacifist who lectured by day on relativity and in the evening urged civil disobedience against military service. ...

Hoover was soon on the case of this dangerous radical. Before the Nazis' threat as rival imperialists outweighed their status as useful anti-communists, the FBI and the Gestapo had worked together in the hunt for communists. Einstein's file grew with each German he sponsored for refugee status for whom the Gestapo had a "record" of "communist sympathies".

Einstein's support for the Lincoln Brigade, the US Communist Party-led American volunteer soldiers against the fascist Franco in the Spanish Civil War, was further "evidence" of Einstein's undesirablity to Hoover ...

Einstein was a prominent supporter of Henry Wallace's Progressive Party in the presidential elections of 1948. The sacked Democrat commerce secretary opposed anti-Soviet policies and nuclear war. When the US Communist Party strongly supported the Wallace campaign, and Wallace refused to give way to Red-baiting, it fed the anti-Red, and anti-Einstein, frenzy of the FBI.

Einstein did not hide his socialism. In the first issue of the independent socialist Monthly Review magazine in 1949, Einstein's article, "Why Socialism", eloquently put the case against the "economic anarchy of capitalism", and its worship of competitiveness. Critical of Stalinism (Soviet socialism had "a lot of merit" but "unfortunately in Russia, it is an experiment conducted in a poorly equipped laboratory"), Einstein argued that US imperialism was the main danger.

He joined a public appeal for clemency for Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, executed in 1953 as spies. ...

http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/26666

~ Submitted by FreeThinke

Z said...

Waylon, imagine? Nobody in the media talks about the horrid vitriol from Olbermann, Maddow, etc., or the really terrible comments at KOS, Moveon, huffington, etc., but let a Conservative say they don't like Obama's healthcare plan and that conservative better shut up or he could incite someone to kill !! unreal.


FT...Which comment is that in reference to, about Einstein? Did someone mention him who I missed?

DUCKY!!!!!!!!! You say "I suspect Loughner was triggered by the crap from rabies radio"

ARE YOU KIDDING? YOU fell for it too? I HONESTLY hate to be unkind but I never thought even YOU were this ideological! that absolutely stunned me, believe it or not. Absolutely STUNNED me.
I guess it goes along with the left's thinking: If you disagree with Obama, you're inciting someone to kill.? WOW!
Never mind that CLinton had his WAR ROOM, the DNC has targets all the time on maps to show key areas...Obama said "They bring knives, we'll bring guns" (nice, from a president who represents the whole country, huh?!!)

Naaa..it's only the Right which INCITES! You and media are amazing; the guy seems to be far less rightwing than "Border-closin', gun lovin' Giffords"
, but HE"S A RIGHTWING NUT? Ducky, you're hilarious :-)

Anonymous said...

ANGER is DANGER

So was Jesus dangerous when He became angry at the money changers?

beamish said...

Einstein didn't live like a leftist though. Sure he talked the talking points like a good drone, but he wasn't full on committed on it. He traded on his celebrity and name recognition for leftist causes, but added nothing to theory and practice of it. Like a Hollywood actor. A pablum puker.

Whatever "brightness" Einstein showed in mathematics and physics was more than adequately neutered by his utter, unrelenting stupidity in everything else outside those fields. He mastered tying his shoe. Whoopie.

Bloviating Zeppelin said...

There is only ONE person responsible:

JLL.

PERIOD.

BZ

Scotty said...

So was Jesus dangerous when He became angry at the money changers?

No....Jesus is God.....

Scotty said...

OH...BTW, Z I haven't had any problems with your blog. No warnings no anything.

Anonymous said...

Z, someone said that all leftists were crazy or stupid after I'd said that that some leftists were extremely bright, high achieving individuals.

Einstein may have been a genius, and his discoveries may have helped the US win WWII, but he was also an unabashed socialist, and was associated with myriad Communist causes.

I may make tend to my points obliquely, but I try very hard never post anything irrelevant to the discussion.

This stuff about Loughner makes me sick. I wish everyone -- on BOTH sides -- would just SHUT UP, and let the justice system do what it needs to do. A raving maniac goes berserk and kills a bunch of people, and the media POLITICIZES it! That's obscene, but the more said about it the worse it gets.

When I see Republicans acting DEFENSIVELY about this event, I could throw up. It would have been much better for Palin and all the others to have taken the high road and regarded Krugman's poisonous rhetoric and that of all the rest of the creeps on the left as beneath contempt -- in other words they should have taken no notice of it.

I don't know about you, but I see NO reason whatsoever for the Republicans to have halted the vote repealing Obamacare just because this poor woman who was shot through the head happened to be a D'Rat congressperson who voted in favor of it.

It's a bad omen. One would think the fate of the nation would be considered a helluva lot more important than the fate of a few tragic victims in an isolated incident perpetrated by a lunatic.

~ FT

beamish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

As for problems with posting on this blog:

Occasionally I get a "notice" that what I've said is too large to print, but then I've learned that if I check back what I've tried to post is usually there.

A few times I've posted an item which appeared to be published only to find it has disappeared without a trace a short time later. CURIOUS!

ALSO, there have been numerous times when it will tell m "The letters you have used do not match ..." so I've tried it again only to find I've posted twice. EMBARRASSING!

Just glitches in the software, I guess?

No red X's for me at all.

~ FT

beamish said...

Einstein for example, could mathematically visualize that an atomic bomb was possible (gee thanks for that, you genocidal visionary) but thankfully considering his political preferences even given the guy the ingredients and components and a blueprint he'd never be able to read much less engineer and draft and he still would have burned his bumbling dumb ass up with radiation trying to actually build one.

Which is why the Rosenbergs had to steal the designs for the Soviets rather than Einstein whipping one up for them.

His "brightness" was rather monochromatic. Dude couldn't even comb his damned hair, much less turn a screwdriver. God help him if a lightbulb needed to be changed.

beamish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
beamish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ticker said...

"So was Jesus dangerous when He became angry at the money changers?"

Only to the money changers pride when He whooped on them with a stick.

beamish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
beamish said...

When I see Republicans acting DEFENSIVELY about this event, I could throw up. It would have been much better for Palin and all the others to have taken the high road and regarded Krugman's poisonous rhetoric and that of all the rest of the creeps on the left as beneath contempt -- in other words they should have taken no notice of it.

I distinctly disagree. I find it rather refreshing that the Republican Party is finally CHAMPIONING the right-wing after an election (what's it been, like 30 years since that happened?) and going on the offense, countering the left-wing Fascisti "get in their faces" tactics of the Obama Devolution and making them look stooopid even as their ranks drop to the 20% of the electorate hooked on psychiatric medication, er, that self-identify as leftists.

In this fight, the Marquess of Queensbury rules are going to get the right raped by the left.

No, kick their damned teeth in. Then kick them again for crying out in pain without permission.

Or we give our streets to these psychos.

Not in my lifetime.

Impertinent said...

"primarily the parents didn't act is a legitimate public safety question."

Tough call duck. How many parents want to admit that their child is beyond redemption or really needs psychological help other than what they feel is their love for that child?

How many would admit their child to a psycho ward...as opposed to ADD treatment...or a "special education" class?

Z said...

Ticker, money-changers' pride...Leftwing's pride; they don't like to be told anything they don't agree with :-)
And they make it VERY tough for those who DO !! Heh

FT..got your Einstein comment's provenance...thanks.

beamish said...

This stuff about Loughner makes me sick. I wish everyone -- on BOTH sides -- would just SHUT UP, and let the justice system do what it needs to do. A raving maniac goes berserk and kills a bunch of people, and the media POLITICIZES it! That's obscene, but the more said about it the worse it gets.

Would that be the justice system more concerned about the fluffiness of Khalid Shiekh Muhammad's pillow than the mules that gun down our border security agents on their way to pack the bowl on Loughner's bong?

Eric Holder's going to throw the book at this guy? What book? Alinsky's Rules for Radicals?!

Anonymous said...

Funny no one's mentioned the difference between the treatment of "Major Hassan" and Loughner, isn't it?

Hassan's part of a group deemed "untouchable" by the liberal PC-Establishment -- to inveigh against him would be }}}}}GASP{{{{{ racist, but it's perfectly all right to throw every bit of rotten speculation against someone from a WHITE ethnic background who might have been "influenced" by }}}}}GASP{{{{{ TALK RADIO, and attribute the vilest of motives to his madness in order to make CONSERVATIVES look bad.

The Pregressive's concept of "fairness" would be hysterically funny, if it didn't have such deadly implications for our country's future.

Pardon me while I roar with laughter as I burst into tears.

~ FreeThinke

Elmers Brother said...

Those who claim to be hurt by words must be led to expect nothing as compensation. Otherwise, once they learn they can get something by claiming to be hurt, they will go into the business of beind offended.

- Jonathan Rauch


This is why the Republicans, Sarah Palin et al must fight this silly notion of 'adjectives' killing people.

Rick Frea said...

Isn't it also true this kid had an alter set up in his parents backyard where he could worship Satan?

Anonymous said...

It is probably best to put out a fire by depriving it of oxygen before it gets out of control. In other words STARVE it to DEATH, instead of FEEDING it.

One of the most effective ways the left denigrates and severely diminishes the ideas and achievements of the right is to IGNORE them, and carry on as if the right didn't exist -- or didn't MATTER. You have only to look at the way the Democratically -controlled "lame duck" congress acted after the election to prove that point.

The Limbaugh Radio Revolution has been tremendously successful because Rush has given a forceful, articulate public voice to a point of view that had all been put to death by the liberal media establishment which had STIFLED or snidely RIDICULED the expression of conservative ideas for many decades.

When the left goes on the attack -- its stock-in-trade [The "CRITICAL THEORY" of the FRANKFURT SCHOOL put to work] it becomes as vociferous as it is unprincipled.

In meeting these DIRECT assaults from the left by responding in KIND, the right only lends CREDENCE to its tormentors and helps the "fire" started by the left to spread and grow out-of-control.

~ FreeThinke

Z said...

Welcome to geeeZ, Rick....don't get me wrong; I think his parents were blind and unwilling to see the problems, but I wouldn't hound them and hurt them over this with interviews, questions, etc.
They've gone into hiding. I respect that.
I do know there was an altar and I remember people had to pick up a curtain or something to see it....I think his folks were oblivious. Dangerously so, but they shouldn't be hounded.

beamish said...

In meeting these DIRECT assaults from the left by responding in KIND, the right only lends CREDENCE to its tormentors and helps the "fire" started by the left to spread and grow out-of-control.

I hear where you're coming from, FT. There's a time for not dignifying absurdity with a response. For example, you'll never catch me operating from the premise that leftists are capable of rational thought - the idea that a leftist could comprehend rationality much less participate in it is one of history's greatest sick hoaxes.

The left will rally themselves in their "mainstream" media panel irrational shoutfest echo chambers and the right will rally themselves in the far more rational, interactive media of call-in talk radio and blogs.

We know an intellectual honest admixture of the two rarely happens. Look at Ducky, for example (one of many). Here's a guy that won't meet on the common, obvious, indisputable ground that he's a blithering idiot. He's a leftist. As with all leftists without single exception, being rational would never occur to him even if he were capable of it.

Do we ignore Ducky's troll droppings, diligently delivered in drool from his talking point bin of the "mainstream" media, or do we sweep them away with the swift kick to the face they deserve?

I, for one, thoroughly enjoy kicking left-wing imbeciles in the face.

beamish said...

Question though, FT.

Why is there a "liberal media establishment" rather than a "neutral media establishment?"

Why did the right have to go build their own "echo chambers?"

We both know why the right built theirs with a welcome-all-comers open arena. We no stoopids. We on the right nurture and crave the free exchange of ideas. Which is why the right's media is far more commercially, thus politically successful.

Still no reason to give up the siege battlefield of reality we built around the left's clubhouse.

Come, let them come.

And kick them in the face and send them back to their fortress to gather reinforcements for us to kick in the face.

beamish said...

How exactly are we "responding in kind" to the left's attacks, by the way?

They're blaming Sarah Palin and right wing radio for the Arizona killing spree.

We're blaming the triggerman, Jared Loughner.

Who's more rational? Do I even have to ask?

beamish said...

Now, there's a time for armchair psychology as well.

The left must act from their own premises. You defeat their premises, you defeat them.

Their premise is (in a nutshell, mind the pun) is that a political graphic on Sarah Palin's Facebook page walked on to a grocery store parking lot and shot 20 people.

Not to be undone by their own unfamiliarity with rationality whatsoever, the left's argument shifts to stuttering, spittle-soaked "but.. but.. but..."

Fail.

Anonymous said...

'Why is there a "liberal media establishment" rather than a "neutral media establishment?"'

That's a question of CENTRAL importance to everything unravelling our society and bothers us so much today.

WHY did the, the entertainment industry, the post Jazz the pop music industry and the news and information business put their creative energy, their money and their considerable brainpower behind Marxism? Why do they work to destroy the very system that made it possible for them to become rich and powerful?

There must BE an answer, but I wouldn't dare presume to say what it might be. A study of Marx, Gramsci, The Frankfurt School and the theories of Sigmund Freud would probably point us toward a correct answer.

Glenn Beck had a VERY interesting program tonight that featured the profound influence someone name Bearnaise (sp?) -- a nephew of Sigmund Freud, who virtually created the modern advertising/mind control industry single-handed -- might point us toward an accurate answer.

But who knows? Maybe Progressivism aided and abetted by insidious, underhanded methods of mass hypnosis was just "an idea whose time has come?"

~FreeThinke

beamish said...

I don't watch or listen to Glenn Beck (can't stand the slipshod conspiracy theor-idiot, actually) but he may have a point on symbology transference.

Give a leftist words to listen to or read and understand and their eyes will glaze over like frost on a lake in winter.

Why do you think the left-wing labor activist Adolf Hitler had so many books burned?

But give them a cartoon and a jingly tune and they're captivated.

And so, to them it will always be that it was a graphic on Sarah Palin's Facebook page, and not Jared Loughner himself, that targeted Congresswoman Giffords for execution.

beamish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
beamish said...

I understand Loughner may have passed near some dusty copies of Keith Olbermann's martial tome Pitchforks and Torches a time or two on his way past the clearance racks at Wal-Mart. We mustn't overlook the pervasive influences he'd no doubt encounter in public that might have been the Queen of Diamonds card to activate him.

Z said...

Edward Bernays.
it was an astonishing show of what lemmings Americans can be...and how Soros uses that.

Beamish, you'd have to get past the personality stuff in Beck you don't like but your hair would be on end if you saw his FACTS; they guy doesn't say anything without TONS of facts behind it. It truly is amazing stuff and, if people were actually aware of how damaging it all is and if they felt they had power, this administration would be walking the gangplank (oops, I hope I don't incite anybody to murdering anybody with those words) :-)

beamish said...

Z,

Beck lost me when he starting pushing his Mormon theology (Indians were really ancient Israelites that settled America) on his radio show and of course his subscription to the ahistorical view that the Nazis were right-wing.

Why doesn't Beck for example, tackle the fact that his "prophet" and sex cult leader Joseph Smith was a con artist and fraud, who had an army of terrorists (the "Danites") running around killing people in Missouri, a group of hardcore racists that are pretty much now the white supremacist "Christian Identity" whackos?

Anonymous said...

I don't like Glenn Beck's quasi-hysterical, hyper-emotional, often frenzied style of presentation very much. In fact I find it repellent, BUT the fact remains he has presented a great many historical facts few Americans have had access to, because most of the information has been ignored, aggressively denigrated and mischaracterized or actively suppressed by the Liberal Communistation-Entertaintment-Educration-Indoctrination Establishment.

Beck may be the wrong messenger, but his message, itself, is of the utmost importance. And I greatly admire the way he exposes his targets and shows them up for the scurrilous, treasonous, deadly dangerous influences they are with THEIR OWN WORDS.

Nevertheless, the way he presents himself often sets my teeth on edge and sometimes gives me the creeps.

I have no quarrel with Mormonism or Catholicism or any branch of Christianity as such, because I believe everyone should be respected and evaluated on his individual performance. If he commits an unpardonable sin, he should b judged accordingly -- but as an INDIVIDUAL.

I take great exception to individuals who militantly identify themselves as "Christian," who fail to act charitably, and then proceed to recommend barbaric, draconian solutions to political, social and economic problems.

I would insist that ultimately it's not what we SAY, but what we DO that matters.

"By their fruits shall ye know them."

~ FreeThinke

beamish said...

On Mormons, "by their fruits ye shall know them..."

Google "Kinderhook Plates."

Google "Book of Abraham translation fraud"

Google "Mountain Meadows Massacre."

Yes, Mormon cultists may have chilled out to be decent citizens for the most part these days, but they are not and never were a Christian organization. Their theology via Joseph Smith's hoax and lifetime of hucksterism has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.

Anonymous said...

Rejecting a vitally important message, because one does not like the messenger is probably not the best way to go. Most of us too often react to each other's PERSONALITIES, and completely miss the substance of many remarks. The truth is always going to be the truth regardless of the personality, hairstyle, mode of dress, tone of voice or religious affiliation of the one who tells it.

It's repugnant if someone has halitosis, but that doesn't preclude him or her from telling the truth with his or her bad breath.

Simplistically we just shouldn't try to compare -- or equate -- apples with oranges. It ain't cricket.

~ FreeThinke

beamish said...

Who said anything about Glenn Beck's hair or breath?

I must say the last time I actually saw a Glenn Beck TV show, he was going on about how a bas relief sculpture on the facade of the Rockefeller Center building that headquarters NBC was really a coded message to strive for one-world government or some such.

Not much substantially different from the operating left-wing conspiracy "logic" behind "the Sarah Palin's Facebook graphic is the Queen of Diamonds that activated Jared Loughner to kill" nuttery.

Two peas in a pod creature, actually.

Anonymous said...

Have it your way, if you must, but I don't agree.

I try not to deal in "personalities" as much as I do the essence of whatever it is they're trying to say -- often two very different things.

~ FT

Z said...

about the bas-relief? I'm not a nut and I think Beck was probably right on. I didn't see that one but I wouldn't write him off for it.

beamish said...

I think Beck engages in far too much free-association and tangential thinking, and it undermines whatever case he's trying to make.

If he was out to prove something sinister about either NBC or John D. Rockefeller, going ding-dong about the architectural features on a building facade is so much lunacy that you'd find in crank spooky-Freemasons-are-out-to-get-ya literature that Glenn Beck is practically begging to be dismissed as a left-wing conspiracy theory asshat.

And so I oblige him just that.

Too much cartoon and jingly music for my tastes.

beamish said...

Then there's that whole "go back on the gold standard" rubric that if implemented, in effect actually really would empower the "sinister" international bankers that have Beck stockpiling cans of pork and beans in the first place.

Squirrel turds are less nutty.

Anonymous said...

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