Tuesday, September 6, 2011

THIS can't be right.........could it?

 Some of you have probably seen this, but I thought I'd post it; 
         RE:  3 American Hikers Now In The  NEWS














Z:  Now I'll sit back and wait till a leftwinger 'corrects' one tiny point in the post I received in an email  (above) that he feels is not QUITE RIGHT!  ...thinking that negates the whole POINT.  THINK BIG PICTURE, Libs...stick to the subject and the very obvious inference in the post, okay?  :-)   Why's that SO TOUGH?!  And, by the way, maybe there's at least a sort of 'happy medium' between N. Korea and US? 


Silverfiddle said...

We should get some kind of international human rights award for the way we (don't) deal with illegal immigration.

Always On Watch said...

A nation without sovereign borders cannot survive as a nation.

Just think what your house would be like if you had "open borders." Sheesh.

Bob said...

As a small clarification:

Illegal aliens only have to pay in-state rates at college. Only the children go to public school for free.

I just had to accept the challenge and find one thing wrong with the list. It's too bad this is not a joke.

Chuck said...

Z, they also got $4.2 BILLION in child tax credits last year


beamish said...

Public services and welfare could not be abused by illegal immigrants if there were no public services and welfare.

Bd said...

So you get these wacky emails too! Oversimplification and Xenophobic.

Obama deported more illegals than Bush.

Elmers Brother said...

But now he's only deporting a fraction BD wasssup?

Dave Miller said...

Z, I don't believe any of those other countries were formed "as a nation of immigrants."

I am also not sure if any of those countries have a Statue of Liberty that says “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

Clearly we have set the bar for the type of country we desired to become.

Now none of this means that peoples anger towards a system that is broke is misplaced. Your post clearly identifies how a lot of folks are feeling out there and the left ignores it at their peril.

But I do feel that efforts to demonize people who are only trying to get ahead in life, will not ultimately be part of any solution.

Short of rounding everyone up and deporting them, which not one major presidential candidate is advocating, are there any realistic comprehensive solutions to the current problem we have.

Does anyone have an idea that will really make a difference and has a chance politically of being enacted?

Because if we don't, all we do is stoke the flames of discontent of some, or even many, towards others.

beamish said...

Obama deported more illegals than Bush.

What is the difference between an "illegal immigrant" and an "undocumented worker?"

Seems to me Obama's reducing the number of illegal immigrants by calling them something else.

beamish said...

Short of rounding everyone up and deporting them, which not one major presidential candidate is advocating, are there any realistic comprehensive solutions to the current problem we have.

Does anyone have an idea that will really make a difference and has a chance politically of being enacted?

Annex Mexico. Each state in the "United States of Mexico" can and should apply for statehood in the United States of America in line with the US Constitution's provisions for doing so.

Mexico is itself divided into 31 states. Start with those that border the current United States (Baja California Norte, Sonora, Chihuahua, Cohuila, Nuevo Leon, and Tamaulipas) and bring them in as new states in the United States (and add 6 more stars to our flag).

Lather, rinse, repeat southward until Guatemala is our southern neighbor.

Z said...

Beamish, I predicted Obama would call illegals that the other day. Did he do that in a recent speech, between slamming Republicans and suggesting they hate the Middle Class? (did you hear the campaign rhetoric in the last speech? I have NEVER EVER EVER heard a Republican say anything as disgustingly insulting as this one does about the whole other party and its people.....it's a lecture every damned time he speaks...he's desperate and I think it's making him look WORSE.)

Dave...we can do nothing, you're right; But this post was an eye opener and should be read, of course. ...but no, we are stuck; the left's set it up, you're right...if we complain, we're the haters, I'm very aware of that. And the left should feel utterly ashamed of itself for that...because Americans have welcomed legal immigrants since our inception. I don't have to remind you I'm first and second generation...of legal, hard workers who didn't speak the language until they came and then quickly learned it without bilingual classes, trust me.

There is no solution; we just have to take it. We just have to keep paying, keep turning our eyes away from the insults, realize many illegals are taunting, and move on. Country be damned.
That poor STatue of LIberty! She sure never meant for people to come here and live off of America, sending their earnings back to their home country, did she.

THis is a country of welcome to legal immigrants. I'm on the Board of a private school in my area and we have marvelous hispanic students there whose parents came legally, do extremely well (or don't, and then we're giving scholarships for scholastic excellence) and they'll be going on to great colleges, too. That's the dream.

Let the weight of illegals showing they're good for our country fall on their shoulders; not America's to show we're open minded, dead stupid, and don't mind what's happened to our schools and hospitals and our overcrowded jails.

No worries...this important post is to remind us we need to keep watch over our country and do the best we can to live by laws.
We can do nothing more; we're stuck now. Even our federal government now sues states which are trying so hard to protect themselves!! Imagine? I'm quite sure the Statue of Liberty never thought THAT would happen! :-)

Dave, the flames are 'stoked' ; not by us.

Elmers Brother said...

Demonzing? Really?

These people broke our laws and regardless of where they originally came from they should suffer the consequences like any other criminal.

I can't find scholarship one for my son who has a 3.7 GPA and through the dream act these people will go for free?

BTW don't be fooled into thinking illegal immigrants would ever serve in the military....that's just a plain joke.

Z said...

I have many family and friends who've worked SO HARD to find the money for their kids' college educations.
Apparently, some Americans don't find it wrong that American families should suffer but illegals should not.

When America was told America doesn't come first, that's when we started the downslide. It was done by telling us AMerica's not exceptional (when even Europeans thought it was before our leftwing media started being translated into those languages), that faith is stupid, that morality is oppressive and "who's to say what's right and wrong?" in a country which had flourished on those very important principles.

I don't blame Conservatives.

net observer said...

I suppose the only question is "What IS that 'happy medium'?"

If Mexico was Iran (i.e., a country run by a mentally unstable character with nuclear ambitions and a disdain for Western values), I suspect we wouldn't be so "open-arms". But since it's a place that primarily supplies a wealth of cheap labor, our principles get compromised.

Z said...

net...good question. Have any ideas?
Sadly, with the gun running and gangs and the thousands of murders in MX and our border,plus the amount of non Hispanic people we need to keep out of our country, it's not exactly only a country which provides cheap labor (while shooting at contractors who won't hire them, which is on the rise here in L.A., by the way)...

net observer said...

I wish I had a PRACTICAL answer. Not sure anyone does.

"plus the amount of non Hispanic people we need to keep out of our country"

What do you mean by that, Z?

Lisa said...

This is liberal policy gone amok

Anonymous said...

"Well, what about immigration? It is truly a festering, malignant social ire, and the United States government is certainly not about to do one thing about it. The government rather is determined to encourage it, to foster it, and to take political advantage of it.

Compromise doesn’t work. Just shoot the Mexicans! Trying to solve a major negative problem, a national problem, without offending anyone, is a preposterous proposition.
But, enforcing national, state, and local law is what makes a nation a nation, and in stead of a warehouse for Third World “economic refugees.”

David Yeagley

( They have been shooting back too )

Z said...

net, there are many reports of having found Arabs, Somalis, Iraqis, etc., within the Hispanic groups sneaking in. The Feds have issued warnings about it.

Lisa.. exactly

Imp; Shooting Mexicans shouldn't be happening, though I KNOW they've killed so many innocent Americans (and Mexicans) and are encroaching on ranchers who are really suffering with the problem...

Sadly, the world knows America doesn't just shoot and that's probably what will be the end of us if you extrapolate from 'only' this problem to bigger problems on the world stage (Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran.. remember our soldiers were told to read the MIrandas to terrorists! And told they can't shoot at mosques even if they're getting shot at FROM the mosque!!!? It's like a joke!)

Ya, we started putting others first some years back instead of standing strongly UP FOR AMERICA... I guess we got to be wimps because our (even elementary aged) kids have been taught we're all about slavery and racism and illegal wars and so we're scum, but...What can we do now? That's what's happened, and I don't know how we can turn that around.

As this post says, most sane countries who have LAWS (as rotten as they are) have CONSEQUENCES (as rotten as THEY are, too)....and people are very careful about not breaking those laws.
Here, they break laws and our federal gov't goes into overdrive protecting them, not us.

Always On Watch said...

Those who insist that we should support illegals (financially and otherwise) will change their tune if they get into a car accident caused by an illegal invader. That happened to me, and I can tell you that you'll get no financial satisfaction -- never mind that the physical injury ruined your life AND the illegal invader had car insurance. The sympathies of the court lie with the illegal invader because the latter "is just looking for a better life."

Z said...

AOW, if that isn't the perfect metaphor.
They want a BETTER LIFE and YOUR LIFE in this country be damned...says a COURT? Well, if the Feds are saying this to Arizonans, why not?

Dave Miller said...

Elmers brother, I won't be fooled, because I know people who have come here illegally just to serve... and then gone home to Mexico.

Beamish and Imp... both of you demonstrated the reality of the problem with your "solutions."

And it is this type of language, calling for killing them, and annexing their country, that in fact does lead to the demonization of people.

Z, I believe there is much we can do if our leaders want to really focus on looking for real, practical solutions, as opposed to scoring debating points.

This problem was not created solely by the left. The right, who for years opposed penalties on employers who illegally hired undocumented immigrants, is also culpable.

PS... I hope and pray your friends in Texas are gonna be alright...

Anonymous said...

This just in....take it with a few Tacos?

"Outrageous: NY Times Op-Ed Defends Sharia Law … in America"

Well...why not? Sharia? Multiculturalism? The great "melting pot"?

Z said...

Dave "Elmers brother, I won't be fooled, because I know people who have come here illegally just to serve... and then gone home to Mexico."

They served by joining the military as illegals? That's possible? And then did service to our country and went back? REALLY? REALLY? Dave, WHY? Tell me why you think they did that; I'm very curious.
Am publishing a piece about "Angel" soon, I hope you like it (I have met two Hispanics in a month named Angel and both pronounce it the gringo way, blows my mind! I say "you mean Ahn-HELL?" and they say "No, ANGEL!" What is that!? :-) Men in Mexico named Angel are Ahn HELL, no??

And you say "The right, who for years opposed penalties on employers who illegally hired undocumented immigrants, is also culpable."
That was DEAD WRONG. And, may I add that it sent a terrible message to illegals. We've sent nothing BUT mixed messages to them for years; now the message from our Fed Gov't is fairly clear "Mess with US ...and you win! A nd we'll PAY you, TOO!" SERIOUSLY!

Dave, you will NEVER hear me say anything is right only because conservatives hold that belief; I HONESTLY believe that most of us here wouldn't do that.
YOu won't hear Republicans waxing eloquent about Bush when he did things we disagreed with...etc etc.

And yes, if there was a REAL desire, and if leftwingers would STOP LABELING ANY CONSERVATIVE WHO WANTS TO DO SOMETHING MEANINGFUL TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM "RACIST", we'd get much farther. I wonder if you can admit that......

Pris said...

"Illegal aliens only have to pay in-state rates at college. Only the children go to public school for free."

Bob, here's a link to AB131, re financial aid to nonresident students who are allowed to pay in-state tuition. These are illegal aliens.


Z said...

Dave, I appreciate this conversation today; I HATE HATE HATE illegals sneaking in and soaking our country.

But, I do love many Hispanic people and I do honestly wish there was a way to solve this problem which everyone could be happy with.

I do NOT believe we can 'just send them all back', though I've seen stats suggesting it would be cheaper to get buses to DO that than to continue paying for entitlements/welfare, etc...

I do not believe in shooting them, unless they're clearly criminals.


Why do you think our prisons are SO FULL of illegals these days? WHY don't they try to behave when they're here?

Z said...

NONIMMIGRATION ALIEN? Another euphemism, Pris? What's THAT mean, do you know? :-)

And, could you shortly explain what that bill says in a nutshell?!! xxx

Always On Watch said...

says a COURT?


I went off. Couldn't stop myself.

Z said...

AOW, "couldn't stop yourself" from WHAT? I thank you for that comment. It just stuns me that a COURT implies that....in THIS COUNTRY? To an AMERICAN BORN PATRIOT LIKE YOU?
a pox.....

Pris said...

"I am also not sure if any of those countries have a Statue of Liberty that says “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

Clearly we have set the bar for the type of country we desired to become."

Dave, yes we did set that bar, and built the facility at Ellis Island to receive them and process them. My maternal grandparents came here through Ellis Island.

No one I know would not welcome legal immigrants. However America is not a jobs program, nor should it be a welfare bonanza.

We shouldn't demonize those who come here illegaly, and march in our streets waving their Mexican flags in our faces? Or making demands when they're here on unlawful grounds?

Do we all look like patsies? Of course we're angry. We're broke. We have children of our own to feed.

And yes, stoking our discontent matters too, and it's time that is recognized by liberals who live in a pie in the sky world. There is no such thing as a free lunch!

Z said...

Pris, there was a wonderful cartoon years ago that I think I told you about once?


We welcome LEGALS who come to love this country like we do. Why's that not important anymore?

Dave Miller said...

Yes Z, it's true... one of my best friends fathers, a Mexican man from Pueblo came to the US illegally to fight for the US in WWII and afterwards turned his back on citizenship and walked home.

Now I also know of illegals who came here to fight for our country for the sole reason of getting citizenship.

So, it does happen. Common? No. Non existent? Hardly. My friend tells me his dads situation was fairly common in those days.

One thing I keep hearing is that people who came through Ellis island came here legally. I'll be honest and admit my ignorance on that. But let me ask this.

What was the difference between a legal, and an illegal immigrant from Europe coming through Ellis island in, say the early 1900's?

Maybe you know. I do not.

I have had many conversations with Mexican nationals on both sides of the border, and there is one thing I keep hearing, they would love to follow the rules.

But there are no objective rules!

It seems a little odd to ask people to follow something that does not exist doesn't it?

I've had this conversation with Border Patrol people, and to the extent that they feel comfortable talking, they agree.

Whether or not a Mexican can even visit the US is 100% purely subjective.

Now I guess we could just say oh well, then they should just stay home. Which I know some would prefer, but let's at least be honest and admit there are no real rules to play by on this issue.

At least where Mexico is concerned.

As for your friend Angel, he should learn English. And I've never met a Mexican yet who when pressed on the issue of English being our language and their need to learn it for citizenship, did not agree.

it is after all what you do in Mexico. You learn Spanish. But that, sadly, is not our system.

Remember, we are the country with 26000 languages printed on our election ballots! The entire world is laughing at us for that, and have been for years.

Oh well, I've said enough.

Z, more than most, you are a gracious host... gracias...

Elmers Brother said...

Dave I was a recruiter we take resident aliens but not illegals. Ever try to do a background check on someone with no papers? I thought so.

Elmers Brother said...

No dave you do know the difference between a resident alien an illegal alien?

Elmers Brother said...

Look at this way Dave....

You need three documents at a minimum to join the service:

A Social Sec. Card
A birth certificate
and a high school diploma

One (ss card) you can't get without a birth certificate

a birth certificate from a foreign country is very difficult to get

if the applicant graduated from a school in a foreign country it also must be verified by an education specialist


On the ASVAB you must be fluent in English

Do you expect the services to now provide ESL classes?

Background and police checks...

let's see you run a police check in say...Cairo Egypt or Finland and why would you trust it even if you could?

Better yet...just what kind of clearance are you going to provide to someone with little or no documents?

Why would the service recruiters go through all this effort when

1. taking in a US national or residient alien is ten times easier

2. Services like the US Navy are trying to get rid of people

Z said...

Dave...Angel speaks perfect English. I just can't understand why he refers to himself as ANGEL and not Ahn-HELL, which is how Angel's pronounced in Spanish..or did when I was learning it.

You know, Dave...things were different during the Ellis Island early days; and it's pretty hard to sneak in from thousands of miles of water away.

While there are Mexicans coming here who want the dream and don't want hand-outs, it's sad that most Americans don't feel that's the case with them . I say "Mexicans" but I know the hordes include Salvadorans, Guatamalans, etc....and, over the border with them are coming terrorists, too, according to the feds.

And yes, so many languages on our official paperwork is RIDICULOUS and only sends another message that AMerica's one big dirty doormat to be trampled on.

I hope we hear more from Hispanics who feel as the ones you describe do. I meet some here, but, mostly, people are tired of their overcrowding our schools, shutting down our hospitals with the cost of their free medical care, etc etc......

I must admit that the children who walk to school near me are very well dressed and seemingly well behaved. I hope it stays that way, because L.A. has many Mexican gangs in some neighborhoods. Even in my Brentwood/Santa Monica neighborhood, we get little graffiti taggings. that's not a good sign.

ELBRO: I can't imagine the military accepting illegals...explain that!

Z said...

Oh, Elbro! Thanks, I asked while you were commenting :-)

I thought that was the case...

Scotty said...

Now I guess we could just say oh well, then they should just stay home. Which I know some would prefer, but let's at least be honest and admit there are no real rules to play by on this issue.

No rules, Dave? Where have you been living? Do you really need someone to tell you the laws that involve proper immigration to the United States.

There are NO rules to only those that want to muddy the waters. The laws are on the books, and from what I've learned, ignorance of a law is not a defense from a law.

The rules for immigration have always been readily available. Don't say that there are no rules....its' a lie!

Pris said...

Dave, I can tell you that my grandfather had money and could support his family which included my mother who was one year old.
This was 1917.

They had to undergo medical examinations to assure they had no communicable diseases.

As far as I know those who came here had to show they had sponsors, or relatives here who they could stay with, or be able to support themselves.

My grandparents spoke english as they were from Trinidad which at that time was a British territory. BWI.

I believe today, applicants for legality, apply in their home countries. I believe the process begins there. They too need sponsors I believe, then the process goes on from there.

I'm not that familiar with it, but I know for a fact if one has a work visa, an assured employment position, they can come here, apply for a green card and eventually apply for citizenship if they so desire. They have to pass a test as well.

That entire process takes close to ten years, as it did for my son's fiancee. She is a citizen, and I'm happy to report that she is a lovely woman and we love her.

If you want to know more specifically, you can google it I'm sure.

Z said...

Scotty's right...there are rules....definitely so. But, I don't believe they've been adhered to much. Obviously, not by illegals.

But, we do give mixed messages "don't come here illegally" ...meantime, we do every sign in 298743987234 languages.

"Don't come here illegally" ...in the meantime, we'll pay for your health and schools.

"Don't come here illegally" In the meantime, we'll employ you.

That's WRONG!!

Pris, they did need sponsors when relatives of ours came about 40 years ago, but I'm thinking they didn't when immigrants came through Ellis Island. My grandfolks came almost exactly when your family did. I don't believe they had anybody here to assure a job, but you're totally right about it later on.
I know Germans with great talents and who'd NEVER take welfare and they have to wait FIVE YEARS...through red tape bureaucracy. ridiculous.

they had rigorous medical testing, too, and many couldn't come in or were quarantined till eye infections cleared, etc. TB patients were in REAL trouble when they got here.
Today? TB is on the rise as is whooping cough, which had been pretty much eradicated until the illegals came with no medical testing.

sad. But, it's THEIR WORLD now...our PC allows us to do VERY little about it. what a situation.

beamish said...

Beamish and Imp... both of you demonstrated the reality of the problem with your "solutions."

And it is this type of language, calling for killing them, and annexing their country, that in fact does lead to the demonization of people.

I didn't call for killing anyone. I'm inviting the six northernmost Mexican states to secede from Mexico and apply for statehood in the United States. Open up all those untapped resources and we'll get down there and build infrastructure and development and other kinds of jobs Mexicans won't do. They'll get instant US citizenship. It will be so enticing and profitable that other Mexican states will follow them. Pretty soon we'd even have third world cesspools like Canada wanting to join.

Next thing you know, we have what God intended. The entire planet governed from Washington DC.

Always On Watch said...

AOW, "couldn't stop yourself" from WHAT?

Telling them off -- all the court officials and all the lawyers, including my own.

The entire hearing was surreal. I received a pittance of money in the settlement and was when told by the officer of the court: "Now you can go on vacation."


I should do a post on what happened in that hearing.

Anonymous said...

Dear Dave:

"And it is this type of language..."


To me pal...that's inflammatory language.

And just how did you sneak in here? Find a hole in a fence?

beakerkin said...


The part about Venezuela is 100% true. I was warned to go nowhere near the border with Guyana.

Reality in the immigration trenches is quite different.

Beamish in 2012

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