Friday, May 10, 2013

Live or die? Which do you pick?

I haven't even mentioned Jodie Arias since she entered American celebrity-hood by viciously killing her boyfriend. Her verdict came down while the Benghazi hearings were happening, and most Americans are more interested in the murder of her boyfriend than the killing of four American heroes, but..........I digress.

She says she'd rather die than get a life sentence.  I have no reason not to think she's sincere in saying so, though some think it's a very clever ploy to not get the death penalty.  She can feel like she wants to feel.  I've never been incarcerated and she has, so she knows what it's like far, far better than I, to lose your freedom.    My question is this:

If you got a life sentence, would you rather be put to death or live your whole life in a small prison cell?

What do you think?  Gruesome subject, but when Arias said she'd rather die, it made me think............

you?

(happy Friday :-)
Z

58 comments:

FreeThinke said...

I think Timothy McVeigh made the right choice when he asked to be put to death.

I'm sure it would be the best thing too for this stupid girl.

Given the choice between life in a very small, confined, windowless space, nothing pleasant or attractive to see, no control of food choices, no television, no computer, no books, and either solitary confinement or a cellmate chosen arbitrarily by the State to be confined with me in close quarters and changed without notice at random intervals, I'd much prefer to be quickly and quietly "put to sleep."

Wouldn't you?

JonBerg said...

Z,

I, honestly, can't answer the question. As you point out, having not been in the position that she finds herself, I just can't. I can, however, state, uneqivocally,I will support whichever option that will provide the LEAST amount of media attention. I'm sick and tired of this soap operatic circus displacing real issues such as Benghazi!

sue hanes said...


Z - I couldn't begin to make that choice. I certainly wouldn't want to be put to death - but maybe being in prison for life is like experiencing a slow death - day by day.

FrogBurger said...

If there's nothing to look forward to, that'd be tough to live for many years.

Z said...

it would be tough with nothing to look forward to, including going to a 7-11, if you know what I mean.
Who looks forward to going to a 7-11?
Answer: Someone who's been in a cell for 2 weeks.
Try 30 years! She's not an old woman and she said she's got longevity in her family. Which I thought was something weird to say but showed she's really been thinking about this.

FT...how's the eye doctor situation?

JB...I agree; the White House really lucked out again. And the media's playing along ..although things are coming out about Benghazi that even the most biased venue won't be able to ignore without even leftwingers asking why.

maybe. :-)

Sue...slow death is right! of course, we COULD read, and that means a lot to me, but to never go to a great restaurant, to never ...
ever...do anything fun?
And then, would she have to fend off the other girls, if you know what I mean? Or are murderers kept confined?

Sam Huntington said...

Did this woman perform a despicable act? Yes. But we do not know the true nature of her boyfriend’s behavior, either. I suspect that no two people deserved each other more than these two morons. What strikes me is that while the prosecutors were looking for a slam dunk (which is the mentality of those people), no one seems to have picked up on the fact that there is something seriously weird going on inside Arias. Everything from the crime to the conclusion of the trial seems to indicate her willingness to die. Is this a case of suicide by government? Possibly …

Bob said...

Why choose death when you get time to repent of your sins, and maybe do something about it? Maybe she could write a book about her sins, giving her perspective?

Yeah, I know you are limited in what you can do while in prison, but you are not alone, either. There is a whole society inside just waiting for fresh meat.

Come to think of it, maybe death could be a consideration.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

My decision would rest primarily on whether or not I was guilty of the crime I was convicted of. If innocent, I would not stop fighting until I drew my last breath.

If for some reason, I committed a heinous crime that needlessly robbed another of their life, I would certainly consider death. The thought alone of only seeing my kids through glass every couple of months, because of my actions, might be enough to decide death is best.

FreeThinke said...

Eye doctor?

Thanks fir asking, Z.

I need to have yet another "procedure" in my left eye. The transplant was performed there nearly two years ago, and the vision has never cleared as promised.

This will be a total of eight operations between the two eyes in nine years.

I really have become a veteran.

Thank God I can read on the computer, and see my way around my house pretty well, but driving is no pleasure, and I dare not drive more than a few blocks just to do necessary errands.

In a sense I'm almost a prisoner in my house, but you know what a pleasant place that is, so I dare not complain.

Lucky for me I many interests that keep me busy and free from boredom.

But, if I were forced to spend the rest of my life alone in a closet-sized room with nothing to look at and nothing to do, as I said above, I would pray for my life to end sooner rather than later.

Scotty said...

"Z said: Who looks forward to going to a 7-11?"

ME!! I'm an unrepentant slurpee lover!

Ed Bonderenka said...

The facility you're in varies.
You don't get a variety of reading material unless someone cares enough to send you some.
That reminds me, it's time to renew some subscriptions.
Similar to Bob, my worldview dictates my reply.
If guilty or not, as a Christian, I would hope to have a ministry like Chuck Colson, or Karla Fae Tucker.
Imagine being sentenced to a home in Cleveland for 10 years.

Z said...

Gad, some of these responses are just amazing and give much food for thought.

Scotty, I KNEW somebody'd say "I like 7-11" I have to admit I almost added "unless you love their hot dogs" (I personally have never met a hot dog I didn't love but I've only had one there in my life!) But YOU know what I meant :-)


Ed...great point about evangelizing; putting your life to some good use.

Bob, 'the fresh meat' part is what could really be scaring her :-) eeeeoooo!

But, do they allow life sentences in with other inmates? I suppose so...?
I know nothing about this..but love the thirties/forties films of prison life, I have to admit. Cagney, DeHaviland, etc.

CI..also, for your kids to have to see YOU through prison glass; good point.
I wouldn't stop fighting, either.

Arias sort of caved; I don't believe they're even appealing, are they? I hadn't heard about that and, generally, it's the first thing talked about once a negative verdict is announced.

SAM...that seems to be a stretch, but she IS that weird, you're right.

Pris said...

It has occurred to me, she may be thinking the jury might be of a mind not to give her what she says she wants.
I think she's a sociopath and will try anything to get her way. I also think she can lie too easily as sociopaths are wont to do!

Always On Watch said...

I don't mind being alone -- IF I have certain things (reading material, for example).

But locked forever in a room the size of a closet? I think that I'd wither away and die in a short time.

Unknown said...

Are you allowed to do a little street photography in the yard?

Law and Order Teacher said...

Z,
First, FT, I am praying for your recovery. It must be hell to live in fear of losing your sight.

The reality of prison isn't as bad as we free people believe. If you are confined you aren't in total isolation. Give me a stack of books, allow me to read in splendid isolation, contemplate upon what I've read, formulate a theory using that information, and I'll become a college professor.

Impertinent said...

I can't wait for tomorrows blog.

Z said...

Pris, that's exactly what I heard on TV..that many think that she's saying she wants to die so they won't give her what she 'wants'...could be a very clever ploy.

Do you all think she will get the death penalty?

Z said...

Imp: What is tomorrow's blog?! I haven't a clue :=)

Email me!

Kid said...

I'd say the high percentage bet is that everything she does and says is to play the system/situation/people. she started 1 second after killing Travis and hasn't stopped.

Well, if given the death penalty, she'll be in the cell for around 19 years or so right. Appeals, and all other mandatory options exercised. That should be enough for anyone wanting her to suffer some consequences of killing.

I'll go a little further here and say she absolutely should get death. It's a simple decision for me. It's a single question.

Is she a danger to society? Yes, stone cold killer, worst kind of sociopath, and a meglo-maniac. Good thing she's not in charge of a country.

You don't want to take any chance some dust bunnies for brains parole group decides to let her out 20 years from now. Or she gets out from a mistake. That has happened.

her personality is one that will allow her to enjoy and play just about any situation she is in.

ala - every time I see a picture of charles manson in prison that idiot is still smiling.

Kid said...

Sam, I thought it was interesting that you give some benefit of the doubt to the idea that Travis was partially responsible.
To me, he got caught up in/took advantage of some sexual situations that I believe were predominately incited by jodi. Could happen to any young man.

I see it as a situation where she got tired of being dumped and decided to kill this time.

But, much more will come out in the next sessions and especially the civil case.

Sam Huntington said...

@Kid

I just don't think that these kinds of things happen in a vacuum. You could be right that she enticed him in to her weird life, but he walked through the door. So we should wonder about her weirdness and her mental state of mind. BTW, I don’t buy into “not guilty by reason of insanity.” I’d rather find people “guilty” but insane, and use their insanity as a mitigating factor in sentencing.

But, that’s just me.

Z said...

Kid, I didn't listen to the Arias thing at ALL....had he dumped her?

And, I'd give nobody a pass for killing anybody no matter how weird the dead person was. It's interesting that Sam gave some benefit of the doubt but I believe it's wrong. As if we can give someone a pass for murder because the murdered was partially responsible? Right?

I was SO cheered by your ASTONISHING comment about their sexual thing... I think becoming sexual so soon as people do now might be as exciting as hell (actually.....well, never mind :-)).....but BUT...it SCREWS PEOPLE UP. Yes, women like this Jodie Arias DO entrap men with sex and it's INTOXICATING, of course! And, then, when it's NOT anymore, and there's nothing else between them, and the man looks at her like "So.... now...I don't even LIKE you, but the sex was GREAT" the woman's outraged and upset! well, TOUGH S***, lady....you brought it ON YOURSELF.
(you're right, I'm not much of a feminist)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Z said...

Sam...I LOVE the way you put that guilty/insanity situation. I have OFTEN thought of that but haven't put it in words as well as you did...excellent thinking.
Bravo.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Once again, it's a prison, not a library.
You don't eat so well, and the literature is not profound.
The tv is behind a screen , there's a pecking order for chairs and only one channel.
The one Bubba's watching.
If you're on "the beach" all the cots are open bay, and if the upper floors have a plumbing malfunction, you're the next to know.
And it's no smoking.

Kid said...

Sam, Yea, we'll see a lot more as these other events occur...

On the insanity, agree 100%. As I said, Q:/are they a danger to society? Yes or No, and I don't care why if they are.

Z said...

Kid, caring 'why?' has contributed to the destruction of America.
As if WHY? matters when someone's DEAD. "The abuse excuse", a typical leftwinger idiocy.

Obviously, there are horrors that certain people can't handle or leave, but if they have to KILL because they can't handle it, they need to be put away, sadly.



Ed, I think that rather depends on the prison, as someone above said earlier today, don't you?
There are some pretty darned swanky prisons in America. Another idiocy.

And, of course, in California, we're apparently paying for sex change operations of inmates.

imagine.

Kid said...

Z, I have to admit I probably wouldn't know much about it either but my wife had it on when I got home from work, and I was fascinated watching the prosecutor Juan Martinez. He's like a modern day Perry Mason. Very focused, professional, truly outstanding job he's done for the victim and his family - the focal point of the job eh?

Yes, based on interviews from his friends, he seems like a normal guy more or less.
Some things that came out in evidence in the trail, as I tried like hell not to listen to anything other than what was admissible in court...

From text messages between the two of them later on and leading up to the murder that were admitted in evidence: paraphrasing

Travis: You are the worst thing that has happened to me.
Travis: You make me feel like a dildo with a heartbeat.
Travis: Don't call, don't write, don't text, please stay away from me.

His friends (outside of trial) say he was very afraid of her. She did perpetrate many stalker actions not only with him but with every man she was with prior.

After she killed him, she drove to Utah to start a new relationship the very next day.

The rest of your comment on the sex was also my impression and thoughts.

Kid said...

Z, I agree, with one exception on the WHY.

I do believe some women simply cannot extricate themselves from some situations of extreme abuse.

If they set the sucker on fire while he sleeps, I'd consider letting her off if there is sufficient evidence of this abuse and entrapment. I believe some women are trapped almost in the same way the kidnapped women in Cleveland were, living under constant threat of a greater evil, like if they leave, the guy will kill her family, etc. Fine line.

But that's about it for me on mitigating circumstances.

Louis H. said...

I have heard people talk about going to bed with a princess and waking up with a monster. I think this was what happened. No matter what she gets as a punishment, I will not lose sleep over it. No matter what she did, I would not want to be on the jury and have to decide life or death.

Kid said...

Z, just a PS on the subject of sex. IMO, such events are not always the result of sane deductive reasoning. Is basically what I'm saying, and sometimes have been the unfortunate victim of myself :)

Mustang said...

The judicial process is one of the most demanding, and one of the most important responsibilities of citizenship. It must be tough to sit on a death panel, but the jury cannot afford to look at this woman and imagine her internal pain. That isn’t their job; it isn’t something they should be willing to take on.

Their job is to decide if her actions warrant a life or death sentence. A death sentence must be a unanimous decision … so if the jury awards her a death sentence, it will be because throughout the trial, she completely alienated every single person on that jury. In this sense, she “did it” to herself.

Z said...

Man, KID!! She was "the spiiiider and the flyyyy!" What a conniving, dishonest, awful woman she truly was.
And, I have heard the interviews with her since the verdict, and that 'woman' is NO dummy. And I believe she is mentally SICK.

And yes.."the Burning Bed" movie, a true story starring Farrah Fawcett, was certainly reason to kill a man. When a woman feels that trapped.
You're right...I have to agree with you.

Hi, Louis...I wouldn't want to be the jury, either..that is FOR SURE.

Mustang; exactly. Why should lay people on a jury have to psychoanalyze? or why SHOULD they? Their job is to figure out IF HE/SHE DID IT. Period.

JonBerg said...

Sam,

" I suspect that no two people deserved each other more than these two morons."

Yes, and Darwinism works in mysterious ways!

beamish said...

Demand government transparency. Make executions public.

Impertinent said...

I'm wishing that she got sentenced to a coed prison...and Charlie Manson was her roomie.

JonBerg said...

"Make executions public."


Yes, hang them slowly in a public forum! For once, at least, I agree with you! Now, how about after a special Appeals Court, convened within about no more than 6 months from the original conviction and sentencing? If that were to be the case the "Death Penalty" might just mean something.

Always On Watch said...

Impertinent,
I'm wishing that she got sentenced to a coed prison...and Charlie Manson was her roomie.

Justice!

Pris said...

Oh no! We don't need public execution! To me that's rather sick.

I too believe in the death penalty, but please, let's not celebrate it.
Surely we're past that sort of thing.

As horrific as some murders are, doesn't mean we too must commit an horrific act of putting a killer to death!

JonBerg said...

Pris,

OK but do you think that the present system is the least bit practical or effective? It's my understanding that, in it's current application, the Death Penality, is much more expensive than Life Sentences and does nothing, whatsoever, to deter murder. I'd sure like to hear some suggestions for improvment. Enduring >20 years of and thousands/millions spent on appeals aren't making it, in my "book"! In it's current form, why have it at all?

Pris said...

Jon,
I do agree that the length of appeals is ridiculous, and unnecessary! To me, whether or not it deters murder is not the issue. It is the ultimate punishment for a heinous crime, and well deserved!

beamish said...

I too believe in the death penalty, but please, let's not celebrate it.
Surely we're past that sort of thing.


Public executions of those sentenced to death would guarantee that it is not cruel nor unusual.

JonBerg said...

With all due respect to opposing points-of-view, to my previous comments, I submit the following link to a situation, currently, going on here in the Denver area in support thereof.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/man-on-death-row-for-pizza-murders-wants-new-trial

Law and Order Teacher said...

Z,
I love that my friends call for public executions but I don't really think that would deter crime. Just as Ruby Ridge and the Branch Davidians fates didn't deter the Aryans, this will just inflame the wrong people.

The death penalty has a lot of problems because it's administered by humans. I have a lot of problems with the government administering anything. We should watch the government like a hawk.

Now the IRS is targeting the Tea Party. They said it was inappropriate. Cussing at a teachers is inappropriate. Targeting law abiding citizens with IRS harassment is illegal.

Kid said...

Law and Order, Yea...

- Gee, we're sorry, nevermind
- They're dead! what does it matter now?
- ah just go out on the balcony and fire off both barrels of your 12 guage.
- Media: pant pant pant, lap lap lap, wag wag wag

Dangerous times. We're making history here and it isn't good history.

Law and Order Teacher said...

Kid,
I'm having a little problem following your rant. If you think that public executions are the answer you're a little wrong. Timothy McVeigh was executed and it didn't really matter.

I'm not against capital punishment, after all I've seen the end result of violence. My point was that turning our justice system into a reality show is counterproductive.

Kid said...

LAW, I sidestepped the public executions and made a comment on the IRS type stuff going on.

I could have written a book in place of the few bullet points but they're in character with the current administration. Total incompetence, Significant illegal activity, media and the repubs and federal prosecutors for that matter looking the other way.

I don't support public executions. IN reality, it would only make capital punishment that much harder to execute and I do believe in capital punishment for some offenders. Many cannot help themselves and many have asked to be put down because they know this.

It does bother me that some middle aged guy who has tortured, raped and eventually killed a 12 yr old girl will cry about the pain of the needle being stuck in his arm when the time comes. I'd rather see him in stocks, baseball bats applied at speed to his joints and finally to his crotch until he takes his last breath, but that will never happen, so I'll be content with removing them with the needle. At least some dust bunnies for brains morons won't pardon him/her in 15 years and they come out and take someone else's 12 yr old daughter. Which has happened.

Law and Order Teacher said...

Kid,
I get it. I agree that there is evil in the world and it makes me sick that they escape the system. I have often thought that child abusers should be used for target practice, but that's another story.

I had a detective friend who investigated child sex abuse crimes who had a sign on this desk that read "Some people are alive simply because it's against the law to kill them." I agree.

JonBerg said...

Law and Order Teacher,

I don't find "reality shows" to be all that REAL. OK, the issue of public execution aside would you, at least, agree that the current, protracted and costly, "death penalty" is little more than a welfare system for the benefit of the Legal Community? The example that I sited above seems all too common to me!

Kid said...

JonBerg, If you don't mind me stepping in... It is a real mess.

As soon as someone found guilty of a capital crime and given the death sentence is later found innocent, the whole system had been brought into question and made practically dysfunctional.

Perfection is impossible. Repeat 100.

Now, with this jodi arias thing, it became immediately obvious that the defense team was doing little more than billing hours. They weren't getting her off at any level.

Add in the pathetic expert witnesses they brought into it at $250 an hour.

The prosecutor even made mention of it with the defense's 100th motion for mistrial or whatever it was. He said that the court should not allow the defense to waste everyone's time anymore, then as an after-thought said, well, I guess they're not wasting their own time, their adding some more pennies to their coffers. But it's a lot more than pennies.

It was painful to watch the defense. They purposefully talked as slow as they could, drew everything out as long as they could. When the prosecutor was making Suscinct points with largely yes/no answer questions, they'd pan over to the defense desk and the lawyer(s) would be frantically scribbling notes with a look of glee on their face, like Wow, this is going to be another hour or maybe 2 on redirect !

Conclusion: Lawyers have attacked virtually every time saving, cost saving, common sensical abstract in America and have brought them and us to our knees.
Over the last several years, I've seen why the concept of lawyers being the scum of the Earth (generally speaking about trial lawyers) is damn accurate.

Some moron falls off a ladder, the rest of us get to pay for his lottery ticket lawsuit AND 15 labels that now have to be applied to ladders.
Extrapolate that across every product and industry in America, least of all the Health Care industry and it's east to see the lawyers have done more to destroy our way of life than any other group.

JonBerg said...

"JonBerg, If you don't mind me stepping in"

Not at all-good stuff!

Law and Order Teacher said...

Kid,
I can buy that. The whole system is a boon to the legal system. I remember my frustration when in court the trial wasn't even remotely about guilt or innocence. It was always about if the prosecution (police) followed the rules. Truth has nothing to do with it. Your point is well taken.

Kid said...

LAW, Would I be correct in concluding many outstanding people in the law enforcement 'community' have gotten so frustrated they've opted out?

I know this is what has largely happened to our education system. I've talked to many teachers who quit when the fed took it over and made it some nonsensical union serving beast. Good people. The marginal people opt for the job security, stay in the system, and therefore drag it down to their level - at best.

So, it's been happening in your field of expertise (if true) and now it's going to start happening throughout our Health Care system. Out with the good A players and in with the marginal to incompetent.

I can't come up with some construct that doesn't turn this country into a hell hole post haste. I hate to be negative. It's a 180 of my personality. I've always found ways to be optimistic, but this one is a real tough nut. We're going down with the new generation of 'leaders' we have on board. Man, I'd hate to be a kid today.

The POS in the white house is taking over for clinton and picking up destroying the military too, using this fuzzy math as an excuse to strip training and all sorts of $ out of the system. They even shut down the Blue Angels. I don't think Russia even did that.

Law and Order Teacher said...

Kid,
I consider myself to be pretty tough-minded. When I was in the military you learn to follow orders and do things you wouldn't normally do.

When I was a cop, I learned that so much of the job was politics and we were the armed enforcers. You learn to deal with that a remember why you came on the job.

I was the union president for years and I fought hard against politicians who wanted the credential of a police endorsement.

Now that I'm a teacher I find solace in my classroom and my day-to-day inter action with my students. That's what I love and I look forward to getting to school everyday. There are a lot like me.

The union, on the other hand, is a political action committee for the Dems. They take my dues money and donate to any number of left-wing organizations. Their emphasis isn't on representing teachers, it's about solidifying their power.

I don't belong to the union, although Ohio is not a right-to-work state, so I have to pay dues anyway. What a load of crap.

Kid said...

LAW. Thanks. I can see why you enjoy what you do. In fact, the only thing I enjoy (relative to this conversation) is the opportunity to open a mind. Gettin harder and harder.

Law and Order Teacher said...

Kid,
I enjoyed conversing with you.

Law and Order Teacher said...

Kid,
I enjoyed conversing with you.

Kid said...

Law, And with you Sir.
Good luck.