Saturday night, I had dinner with the excellent blogger, your friend and mine, INCOGNITO! http://republicaninthearts.blogspot.com/ Check out her blog if you're not familiar with her writing, it's terrific!
Yes, she was visiting from her State (not sure she mentions it, so I won't) and, since we've been emailing friends for a while as well as fellow bloggers, we met up and had a ball. Wish you all could have been there. (yes, even you, Ducky! :-)
Yes, she was visiting from her State (not sure she mentions it, so I won't) and, since we've been emailing friends for a while as well as fellow bloggers, we met up and had a ball. Wish you all could have been there. (yes, even you, Ducky! :-)
Here's what happened at the restaurant: Five minutes before we were ready to go, I locked eyes with a guy at the table next to us (behind Incognito) when he said to a female dinner companion "you really DO like Obama....just VOTE for him." Well, you can imagine the withering look I gave him. I just can't HELP myself! When we got up, the guy asked Incognito "YOU're voting for Obama, aren't you?"
"NO," said Incognito. I got up and walked to their table to join her. The conversation progressed to the point where I said I couldn't vote for someone who's going to tell us what to eat, what to breathe, what to drive, etc. This guy then says "What to eat? Don't you want SAFE FOOD?" I said "What's SAFE got to do with it? I'm not against the FDA, I just don't want anyone to tell ME what to eat...don't close down fast food restaurants, most of us are smart enough to understand we shouldn't eat too much of that." At "smart", the oh-so open minded sweet Obama voter rolled his eyes to all his friends, of course.
"NO," said Incognito. I got up and walked to their table to join her. The conversation progressed to the point where I said I couldn't vote for someone who's going to tell us what to eat, what to breathe, what to drive, etc. This guy then says "What to eat? Don't you want SAFE FOOD?" I said "What's SAFE got to do with it? I'm not against the FDA, I just don't want anyone to tell ME what to eat...don't close down fast food restaurants, most of us are smart enough to understand we shouldn't eat too much of that." At "smart", the oh-so open minded sweet Obama voter rolled his eyes to all his friends, of course.
See what they do? I said "Don't tell me what to eat" and he turns it around to "Don't you think we should have safe food?" I walked toward the door and found a more kindred spirit in the waiter behind the stand by the front door, to whom I said "If you're a conservative, don't mention it to those people over there or you won't get a TIP!" He was cute, young, and laughed with me. We chatted while Incognito cleaned the clocks at that table I'd just walked away from. (I can only take so much, she was far more patient and conversant with them, and did a darned good job from what she told me they talked about before she finally left, I might add!)
"Don't tell me what to eat!" "Don't you want SAFE FOOD?" See what they do?
This was a REAL "geeeeZ!" moment. (Mr. Z had stayed home to let the blogging girls chat, but when we got back to our house, Incognito and the Z's solved the problems of the world. ALL of them. Trust me! Stay tuned for a series on that. (!!) (oh, and Incognito's beautiful, too!)
z
57 comments:
ha wish I could have joined y'all!!
....so I take her as seriously as I would one from someone who leaves anonymous comments - pppppffffffff - dust in the wind.
perhaps you use your real name WHT but most bloggers don't. So in effect we're all anonymous.
Layla, I don't use my name, either.
Elbro doesn't....I know Pat Jenkins does (but I'm not really even SURE that's his name).
Most of us want the anonymity. I wasn't 'impressed', I like her. We've been email buddies for some months now. She's anything but uncourageous; matter of fact many of those she works with do know she's a conservative...
I'll leave it to her to fill in the blanks, I don't feel at liberty to say much because it could reveal things she doesn't want known. I don't know.
But, I will say I have an artist friend who sells well here in the Santa Monica area and she can't tell any of her clientele or students she's a conservative or she'd lose her business/sales, etc. Everything! She loves to come to our home for dinner because she can talk openly!
None of these women, including me, is afraid of getting into it with a liberal (as witnessed in what happened to us last night!) but when it comes to livelihoods, it makes sense to me to stay quiet if you depend on food and a roof over your head.
I admire your 'being out there' and know what risk you put yourself in.....
What's REALLY sad is they have to stay quiet; that Republicans are not respected by the Left, that the open-mindedness stops the second someone disagrees with THEIR mind.
My painter friend said she was at a huge gallery opening when she heard two liberal artists look over the enormous crowd and say "Better see if there are any REPUBLICANS and get RID of them!" Joking or not, it's not good.
I'm sorry I said WHT and I meant Layla
As for most people being incognito - I really see no point - if someone is intent on finding you or finding out who you are - they will.
go for it...find out my real name layla
well I outed a jihadi professor who taught at Kent State University...sorry but I wasn't going to give him or any of his cronies my real name
Well, MY real name is Jehosaphat K. Dumbwaiter.
Can't you see NOW, why I never use it?
§;-D
WHEN will we ever learn that it is the QUALITY of people's THOUGHT that counts and the integrity of their ACTIONS?
Nothing ELSE matters in the least.
The revelations about how liberals operate–––even though we've been aware of this for DECADES–––or SHOULD have been–––are important. How many times have you been buttonholed and bullied at a gathering by some overzealous jerk who approaches you by saying, "Of COURSE you're for Obama, I can just TELL, you have such a NICE face. Only ugly, narrow-minded bigots with shriveled souls could POSSIBLY even THINK of supporting McPAIN."
I mean what are you supposed to say to THAT?
Do CONSERVATIVES ever approach strangers that way at social gatherings?
I DON'T THINK SO!
FreeThinke
You know, this whole post came only from the pleasure of having met one of you! And I hoped it would be fun for her to read it and the comments, too.
No, Layla, unfortunately, my artist friend can't take every art client of hers to the courts if, very suddenly after 10 years of teaching, and upon hearing someone has 'outed' her to the client, she's been told "I just don't think I'll continue with the lessons.." That's happened and will probably continue to happen. Is that proof positive that it's because she's not a liberal? Not enough to make a court case.
Does she know with certainty this was the case in ALL of the situations? Yes. Thank goodness she still has a good amount of clients who don't know. Some, of course, ARE Conservatives, too.
I'm pretty certain that, if my conservative friends who make livings here in the L.A. area, were making the kind of living Voight and Norris and Arnold have, they'd be able to say "Stuff it", but they simply can't. I can't speak for Incognito on this, perhaps she'll chime in when she reads this.
I just wanted this to be fun and, if someone like Elmer's Brother met you for dinner or met The Merry Widow or Angel, I'd be delighted and want to hear about it. That's why I wrote this...for fun and a little levity in the wake of the Palin problems...
Still, I think the question of anonymity is a fascinating one.
Maybe I'll blog on it and we can REALLY get into it some time soon!! Or one of you do it. It IS a very interesting and curious part of blogging, isn't it!?
Incog is a friend of mine. We are blogging pals and email each other with no restraints. I know her name and where she lives. She has my info, too, but most on the Internet don't. (Z does!). She told me of her web site and yes, she is beautiful. And talented.
If you heard her interview with the radio idiots here in my fair city, you would completely understand why she remains nameless on the Internet. There are some crazy people out there and a person protecting himself/herself is perfectly understandable.
Would have loved to hear more of that conversation!
z - it's great to get together with and correspond with other bloggers. and as elbro said, it's really quite easy to find out who somebody is - just cross another blogger you thought you trusted! ha!
although i do speak with and email plenty of them, i've NEVER thought to cross one no matter how much they may deserve it.
i'm glad you had a good time with incognito - as for the food police...
we attended our little mountain church this weekend - here in the mid south EVERYBODY is a registered dhimmiwittedcrat, but there are some who've NEVER voted that way in over forty years!
as they were having a potluck sunday, i was allowed the opportune time to enlighten a few of them on sarah palin - THEY WERE THRILLED TO PIECES!
quite honestly, some thought ALL was lost until that moment. it was good to offer a service which otherwise may have been wasted.
did you catch the idiotic protesters at the rnc?
How exciting, Z!
That's just the kind of dinner you and I will have someday.
I'll be sure to visit Incognito's blog.
Oh, and Z...you and I are kindred spirits on many levels.
My husband cringes when I get that 'I'm gonna have to talk to this person' look in my eye.
I'm just not afraid of confrontation.
Layla, that's YOUR truth, not ours; none of us needs to make ourselves available to the world. I just can't agree with you on this. I know you'll feel that's my right, too. Or I hope so.
I just won't say much more because incognito is her own person and has every right to her anonymity, as I do, as most of us who choose anonymity do. Why criticize her? That's her choice; it's OUR choice, too. 99% of the bloggers choose anonymity..right? Always on Watch and WC both choose anonymity, too, on their radio program. And their blogs. MOST bloggers do. Do you disdain them all?? I'm curious. It's a fascinating topic.
If you find her 'suspect', that might be a better discussion at her site; why haven't you until now?
As I said, this could be an excellent topic of discussion, and I can't control my blog to where "I want it fun and that's IT~!" You are ALL respected here, as I hope you respect me and my readers.
I was telling Mr. Z today that having a blog that was fairly busy today's like hosting a big party; everyone's off in corners discussing different topics and that's the way it should be!
thanks, everyone for showing up.
edge......it only lasted about five minutes, incog stayed a few more minutes and talked, too! Wish you'd been there...I'd like to hear what YOU would have said!!
I agree with staying somewhat anonymous. I don't think it's lack of conviction, I for one am willing to explain to someone when they are wrong about something (on the blog or in person). There are a lot of nuts out there though and we have families, etc. Some people are not safe.
nanc! I missed you this weekend. welcome home and to the blogs!! Good to hear from you.
And good on you for filling those peeps in on Sarah!
You know what? I don't care WHAT somebody said to me (and YOU know I got some VERY VERY rough treatment at FPM last year..VERY rough), I would NEVER EVER blow their cover. I'm with you on this. I just wouldn't...ever ever never never. thanks, nanc.
Pinky...you made me laugh with that "look in your eye" line. I swear there's a line that i suddenly cross, it's like my chemistry changes!, and it's 'OKAY, THAT'S IT~! Let's TALK'...!! SO FUNNY!! I"m okay for a while, then..."OKAY......" gloves off! But, I've gotta say Mr. Z's mostly looking like "OKAY...HERE SHE GOES...YOU GO, GIRL!" he looks smug and happy to see me go off!!
Haha...
I finally clashed with one of my coworkers the other day. I've overheard some snide, off-the-cuff comments he's made and have known he's an Obama-freak.
Last week, I was in the office with two other staffers, and he walks in asking if we had heard the DNC speech by president Gore. I said I missed it, but would have liked to have seen it. He raved about it.
After a moment, I threw in, did you hear about McCain's pick for VP (this was the morning before the announcement speech). His whole face turned ashen. His demeanor went from jovial to shocked confrontational anger. I couldn't believe the transformation, and all I did was mention McCain's VP without being pro or con. He went off about he doesn't care, it doesn't matter...after a minute of back and forths, he asked "Are you a Republican?" Does he just go around assuming everyone around him is a liberal Democrat Obamabot? When I said "yes", he basically walked away, speaking esoteric mumbo-jumbo (this guy believes in ESP and such), that there's no debating with me, as if I was the one with the closed mind who won't listen to the other side.
Later in the day, he recaptured his humor and civility. I guess I caught him off-guard, and saw his "true colors" inside. He's a good man and the program director for our special needs program (one of the things I said to him was about how Palin looked into the face of her baby with Down's Syndrome and said she saw perfection. Didn't phase him one bit to say a kind word about her).
But man, is he a politically cuckoo..
"president Gore"...geeez!
Z wrote:
If you find her 'suspect', that might be a better discussion at her site; why haven't you until now?
I believe you missed the point. I said in an earlier comment I do not visit her blog anymore - hence, because of the OBVIOUS "incognito" I found her suspect.
Besides, you brought up the subject of meeting her like it was some big deal - personally your point to deflect Palin's political problems is lame, actually if you had been watching the news it turns out it did the RNC, John McCain, and herself a lot of good at the end of the day. McCain received over 10 million in campaign contributions and even Obama conceded that Palin's daughter was off limits and classless for the msm to go after.
I respect you - I just think posts like these are juvenile and insults people intelligence.
As for AOW or WC they do not, like you or others make it clear that they are incognito - for all I knew Z is your nickname.
But as a blogger that takes what I do seriously and has been open and honest I find it disheartening how immature and low minded many conservatives are.
No one should be in the kitchen if they cannot take the heat. All this cloak and daggar stuff is idiotic.
I promise, Layla, I will NEVER call any of your posts 'juvenile'.
I think there's a time for political posts and a time for more levity. It's my blog and I believe we should all feel we can do what we want on our blog.
And, as I said, ALL of us, almost to a person, uses an anonymous name. You know very well what my name is and you can decide whether it's a nickname or not!... I would ask you never use it, please.
What do you mean AOW and WC do not make it clear they're incognito? Do you think AOW's real middle name is ON?
I think most of us take our blogging seriously but it doesn't mean we can't have some fun with our posts. I'd love to hear about any dinner you had with another blogger I know. That's why I blogged this.
Layla..I hope we can just agree to disagree on this...I enjoy your blog and appreciate having you here...
Wordsmith, to the OTHER blogger I've met! (I hesitated to post that because we never talked about telling anybody, but what the heck, right!?), YOU are a prince among men and that's why that guy backed off.
President Gore, indeed...it's like the Left just can't grasp REALITY!
You think there'll be unrest if/when they lose......AGAIN?
No problem Z. I did delete my comments however because I believe they flew over everyones head and I hate singing to the choir.
Layla...No Problem? why would you delete your comments? They are your opinions, we all understand them, we just happen to heartily disagree! They're not over anybody's head!!!
My goodness..I'm a little stunned so I'll just stop here.
Have a good night......
For your information, you guys, my comments are in response to Layla's, which she deleted..she explains why below.
I'm sorry you couldn't see them. She basically said she thought we should none of us blog anonymously...I still think it's an interesting topic.
I'm only writing this here so some of the others' remarks, and mine, are better understood since I have no intention of deleting all the comments.
(that would be 'above'...not 'below'!)
Well Layla, Pris is my nickname, but I ascribe no importance to it.
I'd like to say something about Z's blog. The reason it is enjoyable and interesting to come here to GEEEZ! is because we can't predict what we'll find. Which is not always true of others.
There is alot to be said for being imaginative and interested in many topics, events and experiences.
While you may see some of the more lighthearted topics as a waste of time, I see them as a respit from the daily drumbeat of dread and doom.
All I can say is, I'm glad you are not the arbiter of what is or is not appropriate for blog content, much as you may like to be.
Z's blog reflects her. Her love of country, her conservatism, and enjoyment of life. Her personality is her blog. And the variety I find here is interesting, and brings me back every day to see what's on tap here.
And I'm sure your personality is reflected in your blog, that's why you like it. Whether others do, I don't know or care.
And if you find the rest of us so unsatisfying to talk to, I'm sorry for you. I enjoy the posters who come here. They're very smart, knowledgeable and sometimes very funny.
Perhaps you have trouble broadening your horizons, and that, only you know.
Well, I've said my piece, and I hope I haven't said anything that is over your head.
Pris
my nickname is "your highness" here at the big, comfy house...when we're at the cabin, i'm "mom". behind the scenes many of us know each other's true name. it's not all that important in the grand scheme of things other than there ARE people who WILL try to get to you out of petty jealousies and squabbles - i say, "bring it."
for instance, i'd never tell y'all that elbro is really dustin hoffman in real life. why should i blow his cover like that? and angel is really carly simon. and never, ever call me sophia loren in public! that's where i draw the line! and if you call edge "siskel and ebert" - well, let's just say "them's fightin' words!"
nanc - bwahahahahaha!!!!
Hey nanc, who knew? Priceless.
Pris
Pris..thanks for the kind words;
I'm sorry that Layla feels like she does.....I just have to have a blog which reflects me, as all our blogs do. I'm glad you enjoy it here...I'm sure glad you come to comment and write your pieces for geeeeeZ! It's about time we had a new PRISCILLA'S POST by the way!
Sophia..Oops, nanc...I just got off the phone with Dustin, oops...oh, never mind! LOL!
namedropper.
*;]
My name is... sicka sicka slim shady...
er, something.
it always fasinates me when the conversation takes a sharp turn in another direction....
i have no idea who i really am, i am suffering from amnesia. one of those sharp turns gave me a concussion a while back.
:-)
I'll resort to an old saw and proclaim:
Try never to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.
In other words when someone says something disagreeable or not quite bright it's probably better not to augment it by paying any attention to it.
The defensive reaction always puts more fuel on the fire, as it were, and may even lend credence to a specious argument.
This is a hard lesson to learn, but always worth a try. A disagreement is not necessarily a personal attack.
Sounds like a great evening, z. She seems a really interesting character, being an artist and yet a Conservative. I've known a lot of artists and I have to say she goes against the trend!
Wish I could have been a fly on the wall during that conversation with the liberals at the next table...hah.
Pris, I read your comments and you are a self-righteous PRIS and your double speech behooves me. Get a life- come out of the closet and be a real person instead of hiding behind your psuedo name and blog because you fear monetary loss. I have no respect for people like you or the ilk.
I will call it like I see it and I thank G-d I have the discernment to know a good blog and a real since person behind it. The rest of this is fluf to pump up your self inflated little egoes.
When you have to hide be hide a fake name you are about nothing and what you write means nothing because you do not have the GUTS to let people know who you are.
You are an arrogant PRIS!
As for Z and her blog - I consider Z an intelligent and intersting person and for the most part an excellent writer that does not have to cater to the likes of you because you consider yourself bigger than what you write.
G-d forbid you lose a little money - I know who your G-d is and you should get prostrate and repent for it is G-d who is your provider MISS PRIS - NOT MAN!
Man does not live by mana alone. Grow-up and get a life. You are talking to the wrong lady - I am not easily fooled and can read between your high and mighty double speak which is DUNG!
The right seems to get hyper-sensitive over this idea that they are being told what to do.
As if there weren't enough opportunities to eat crap in this culture they go on jihad when one neighborhood wants to stop fast food expansion to actually allow more choice. R's just like to live frightened.
But I'm still recovering from an experience at my favorite museum, the Isabella Stuart Gardner (great cafe, good quality food). Part of the charm is the completely haphazard layout. You can hear her telling the workmen to "Just hang the Botticelli's out in the hall". Well such an independent woman but who would have thought she was a dhimmi.
Below Boticelli's "Madonna of the Eucharist" I examined the case closely. It's not unusual to overlook items at this museum. Sure enough, a fine piece of glasswork from a mosque and a very fine Syrian ceramic bowl. How dare she mix these with christian art.
You can't trust anything these days, your food or the Gardner. Tragic.
It sounds like a good match with you 2.
I bet you didn't have much to dissagree on. LOL.
Keep up the good work you guys have great blogs.
Sorry z, I closed to members only so that creep might get the hint and get lost, but it didn't help.
I change the setting now and anyone can comment.
Thank you for your support,
Layla, Pris's name IS Pris in real life. And she has no blog. She's a very good friend who writes the occasional excellent piece for my blog.
Ducky...what's wrong with mixing?
salubrina, quite something, huh? (get an ice pack!!)LOL!
Anonymous, I guess we leave the attacked to decide if it's been personal or not.
layla-I'm a widow with a teenage daughter, keeping my identity quiet makes sense! Prevents me from having to shoot anyone! Just kidding, though I will if I have too.
Sounds like a fun evening, Z, glad you were able to have it!
This country is no longer a safe place...and I really don't appreciate virtue police. Ran into enough in Santa Cruz, to last me 10 lifetimes!
ducky-I eat healthy, but when I go out, which is rarely, I will splurge, so tell your friends to butt out of my once a year treat! If I eat a slice of "seven deadly sins" cake, I don't want it ruined by a sour faced food nazi!
mw
what the hell'd i miss?
sophia
*:]
p.s. - this reminds me of the time at sam's club where this ugly lady was serving up some of those healthy cardboard treats and i said, "no thank you." and she kept hounding me as i was busily putting stuff into my cart from her aisle - she noticed some corn type treats in my cart and said, "did you know that corn is not meant for human consumption? it's meant for livestock - beef, pigs - as they have the teeth you and i don't and can digest it better!"
"well lah-tee-dah! imagine that - i love me some beef and pig and what's good enough for them is good enough for me!"
the kidz always look at me like "please don't make a scene, mom." and i look at them and will say, "i hope she doesn't make me make a scene..."
Wow... who would have thought an innocent meeting between 2 blogger friends would create such a vitriolic reaction from one of our own. I would have expected that from an intolerant Dem, but not a conservative. I thought we were above that, but I guess not.
And I'm actually surprised Layla didn't have the courage to leave those comments, considering she is criticizing me for not having the courage to use my real name on my blog. It sounds like the liberal interviewer Karen speaks of who waited until *after* the interview to disparage me.
" I just think posts like these are juvenile and insults people intelligence".
Do we have blog police now? Who are any of us to judge what is or isn't worthy of blogging about. It's like when the feminists claimed stay-at-home mums were 2nd class citizens because they weren't out there in the work force. I find it rather arrogant and judgmental. Some levity in times of trouble is as important as the heady stuff. Is blogging about politics the only subject worthy to blog about?
"But as a blogger that takes what I do seriously and has been open and honest I find it disheartening how immature and low minded many conservatives are"
Again, who are you to judge what is or isn't important to write about and who or who does not take blogging seriously? I think all of us take our blogging seriously, event those blogs that post about mundane things. I initially took up blogging as a means to vent and continue to blog because I hope that one person who visits my blog might, in some way, be enlightened.
"I did delete my comments however because I believe they flew over everyones head and I hate singing to the choir."
Just demonstrates a lack of courage.
"G-d forbid you lose a little money -"
It's not a question of losing a little money, Layla, it's a question of a livlihood. Are you going to support me when directors choose not to hire me because of my politics? I know of many people in my industry who have been blackballed because of being a republican. Yes blogging is important to me but not at the risk of losing jobs. Good for you, that you don't have to blog anonymously, you're probably married and have a husband who can support you or does. Some of us don't have that life support.
And as Z mentions there are some colleagues I have revealed my politics to when asked, after engaging in poltitical discussions. There are times when I can't keep my mouth shut, but I choose my battles carefully. Like Wordsmith, I have had similar reactions from Democrats when they discover I am a republican.
And yes, if someone wants to track me down they can, but I figure if they are that desperate, they deserve to find out. In the meantime, I will continue to blog as I do, as long as I remain in an industry that is rabidly liberal.
merry widow, I ordered desert at the Gardner Cafe, apple crisp with chocolate ice cream.
I'm all for choice.
I sent Z an email extending an apology for my brupt and unkind remarks and also asked her to apologize to Pris for me.
She has an explanation, but no excuses, I could have one, expressed myself in a civil manner or two, jut kept quiet.
I apologize to all of you. I hope you all will accept my humble apology.
Best wishes to all of you - really.
Sincerely,
Layla
No way that happened in Sam's Club, nanc. Fess up, you're shopping at Whole Foods.
pluckster - you callin' me a lawr? it happened at sam's! i've never even been to a whole foods.
i forgive you, layla. i learned a very long time ago that unforgiveness kills the one who's unforgiving. of course, your anger wasn't extended toward me.
personally - i don't believe it wise to use your real name, especially if one has children at home. so if you call me sophia loren in this arena, i will ignore you. BWAH!
ducky-That sounds good too!
layla-Anonymity at times is the only real choice.
Do you know how vulnerable a widow is? Especially one who owns her own house? Free and clear?
I don't want to be a target, and I'm not the only one who thinks my daughter is gorgeous...those who have seen her picture are impressed. And how soon would she be harrased by someone who tinks they can "get to her" because she doesn't have her Daddy to protect her?
Some of us have to maintain a certain shielding, for the sake of our jobs and security.
I certainly accept your apology, as a deliberately anonymous person...just please take into account the fact that not all of us have the security to be more open.
Z, knows who I am, as do others, including AOW. But then, we have known each other for awhile and have learned that we can trust each other.
It's a dangerous world out there!
tmw
I'm going to say something controversial–––again. So what else is new?
In my never humble opinion, after nearly ten years at this commentary game I have come to the realization that the ONE hard and fast rule we should ALL follow is this:
Never indulge in ANY kind of personal attack–––or even too much praise. Keep personal remarks at a minimum.
The corollary there is not to draw false negative inferences from general remarks with which you don't sympathize–––inferences that assume these remarks were "really" directed at you, personally. That borders on paranoia.
Stick to the subject at hand. Also express ideas, thoughts and feelings you really want to share, because you believe they may shed light, offer help or impart worthwhile information. Offer polite disagreement, when you disagree, but please try not to beat it to death and try never to get into "personalities."
I think direct personal ATTACKS of ANY kind for ANY reason should be deemed unacceptable, outlawed and immediately deleted. PERIOD!
It would be a better world if everyone stuck to these simple rules in all areas of human interaction.
I hate to be the one to say it, but in my experience those who call themselves conservatives, and those who call themselves Christians MAY be just as vituperative, vicious, destructive and ignorant as anyone on the opposing side.
There really are very good people who consider themselves liberal and very terrible people who call themselves conservative–––and vice versa.
If I didn't happen to know this for an absolute fact, I wouldn't bother to pound the tips off my fingers saying it. It's a good idea always to look behind the labels and see what contents the package TRULY ccontains.
I'm always glad when someone meets someone they've found intriguing on the net, and, and truly enjoys a face-to-face encounter when it happens–––as so often it does not.
I think the very ESSENCE of Libertarian-Conservatism (the true mindset of the Founders) is that every blessed one of us has the right to set his own limits, and express himself in his own unique voice, but NO ONE has the right to set limits, dictate policy, set the course for someone ELSE and then upbraid and berate them for not conforming to these arbitrary, artificial standards.
Just my fifty cents, but I hope it resonates well, because it's meant as constructive criticism.
Learning to tell the difference between constructive criticism and just plain nastiness and stupidity is a skill everyone should do his best to acquire.
Good night,
FreeThinke
ft said:
"I think direct personal ATTACKS of ANY kind for ANY reason should be deemed unacceptable, outlawed and immediately deleted. PERIOD!"
'scuse me, but if you're attacking an IDEAL of MINE, you are in essence attacking me and what i stand for - yes? why even have a forum such as this if what you say is true? there's no need for it in your world. why are you here?
is it because you love and agree with EVERYTHING EVERYBODY says? there is black and white, good and evil, right and wrong - everything IS NOT relative.
purty it up all you want, ft, but you know as well as i that you cannot have it both ways - more commonly referred to as "compromise" - i won't do it and anybody who does is a whore. you're either true to your beliefs or you'll be true to another's.
as z states on her sidebar - gratuitous profanity will be deleted - she's taken it far enough - anything else should be fair game.
perhaps you should start your own blog? i'm sure the pluckster would make a fine partner for you.
Expressing disagreement with a stated position is not personal attack. But insults, personal remarks, taunts, jibes, etc. are not proper debate. Ideally we should be concerned primarily with IDEAS and the implications of various events reported.
No one is merely what what he SAYS or even what he DOES. There's a LOT more to it than that. And, of course, we have no idea what is going on in the personal life of others, unless we know them outside the context of a blog or website–––as many of us here do.
I've seen this in every context whether it be politics, religion, books, movies, Opera or whatever–––most people have a positive genius for missing the point, because so many are really searching for a "good" reason to vent the abundant store of free-floating hostility that builds up in all of us periodically, and so we tend to look much harder for reasons to disagree than to support what others try to say.
Just to clear one thing up: Even though several have suggested it more than once, I don't want a blog of my own. I don't want to win any popularity contests. I don't want fame. I don't want to become an "influence." I merely want to state my opinions for others to see and evaluate as they see fit.
I don't expect people to agree with me, but I don't see any reason for sarcasm, belligerence or contempt in expressing disagreement.
There is a fine line between politeness and hypocrisy. Observing common sense rules of good etiquette does not mean you are compromising your principles. Or if it does, perhaps it would be a good idea to re-examine the intrinsic worth of those principles.
Another opinion I hold, which few seem to understand or accept, is that "profanity" per se is not necessarily a terrible thing. Most of the time it betrays a lack of imagination, an inadequate vocabulary or a lack of self-control. It can, however, be comical, satirical, or simply colorful if used skillfully and judiciously in certain contexts. Therefore a blanket banning of the use of certain WORDS and EXPRESSIONS is not very helpful in promoting worthwhile discourse.
As always, I feel we should be free to say what we believe in no uncertain terms, but should never be made to endure insults because of it.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that OBLIQUE approach is best.
I'll try to practice what I preach. It can be hard, I know.
Good day!
~ FreeThinke
PS:
Caught at Lucianne's Must Reads:
"The Media Descend to a New Low"
Fear Factor:
"When they attack one personally it means they haven't a single political argument left."
- Margaret Thatcher
Submitted by FT
perhaps you should start your own blog? i'm sure the pluckster would make a fine partner for you.
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Nanc, I'm sorry but I question ft's commitment to the struggle.
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