THIS is rather surprising, though I've been predicting it. From the link:A majority of Americans say Barack Obama is “about the same” or “worse” than George W. Bush as a president, says a new poll out Friday.
Asked to compare President Obama to former President George W. Bush, 56 percent said that Obama was either “worse” (34 percent) or “about the same” (22 percent) than Bush, said a USA Today/Gallup poll.)
Obama performed especially poorly among independents; 67 percent of independent voters said that Obama was about the same or worse than Bush.
geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeZ
64 comments:
Don't forget, throughout his entire presidency, the media never gave Bush a fair go. Not so with obama, they've carried so much water for him and for the public to still know that he's a useless waste of space! Boy oh boy, you really have to be a waste of space for that.
MK is right. From about 6 months after 9/11 on, it was a non-stop Bush-bash in the media, Hollywood and popular culture.
That's because Bush ruined the Evening News by having SCOTUS take the Florida vote and hanging chad controversy out of the headlines and exposed the liar Dan Rather to the world.
No surprise here. You'd be hard pressed to find much of his administration that isn't an extension of Bush's corporatism.
Silverfiddle, our useless popular culture is too concerned with "Dancing with the Stars" to bash anything.
Hi, MK....no, the media never gave Bush anything remotely like a 'fair go', you're right. And with Obama, it's a love fest; although I believe that they're starting to want their rings back :-)
SF: it's still a Conservative Bach in media, popular culture, etc., but at least they're finally getting off Bush.
As an aside, talking about popular culture, I watched half of BIGGEST LOSER last night and couldn't quite figure out why the contestants weighing in from 420 to 250 pounds or so, had to take their T shirts off. The women didn't, but the REALLY horribly big-bellied and unattractive-looking men did...and the cameras do a sweep from the pants to the neck so you got every horrible nook and cranny. WHY? Just another example of bad taste slung to the public to diminish any kind of sanctity of the human body? sad.
Speedy...exactly. Dan Rather's lies didn't even get that much exposure, remember? He was even hired again.
Ducky, BIG surprise here and that's obvious. "No surprise here" after the adulation of the last few years? Ya, right :-) HUGE.
And yes, the culture's learned that reality TV's more important than knowing who a VP is, for example; but I blame leftwing teachers who are spending time on stretching condoms over bananas and telling young children their city's will flood from global warming instead of history for a lot of that.
the whole point here being that people are waking up; whether the news slammed Bush in the past or not.
This is very important stuff and it'll be interesting to see the swing to a different methodology in O's campaign style/plans because of it.
I'd say that he'd be insulting the Right even harder but I think his guys are smart enough to know that's partly what's not playing well to Indies.
We have yet to realize whether American voters are waking to the stark reality of what they did to this country in 2008. After three years of being bashed in the head by a progressive 2x4, normal people may remain in an unconscious state indefinitely. This will open the door for socialists, incapable of rational thought, to reelect Obama in 2012. Remember, these same people wanted to elect Al Gore and John Kerry … indicating the absence of sanity in the progressive universe.
Mustang, too true; we can only hope....but when I see young people on TV asked who the VP is and they don't have a clue......that's scary.
This is why they suck up the progressive agenda; they are so dumbed down they're going on FEELINGS because they have no FACTS.
How do we change this? I don't see it happening.
All I can say is by the poll numbers Bush was more popular a week after Hurricane Katrina and during the height of the insurgency in Iraq than Obama is right now.
Note the difference in media tones.
I remember Larry King saying his 5 year old son says he wishes he were black. Gee I wonder where he got his influence from.
Oh yeah here:
http://www.mrc.org/notablequotables/nq/2009/20090407104854.aspx
The WP was all orgasmic over Obama's pecs yet in Comparison to Bush physically and age wise Bush was and still is in much better physical condition.
I don't believe that what we are seeing is a situation were the normally marshmellow-minded independents are waking up.
We know that the media is heavily lift-leaning as documented . After swooning and pumping Obama stuff constantly, the news media have found themselves swamped by so much bad news they cannot hide it or put enough spin on it to make Obama look good.
The only time the LSM can get a good word in on Obama is when he shuts his mouth for a couple of days and then the LSM is swooning all over how great his plan for what ever flavor of the week it is.
Independents have awakened and they don't like what they see in Obama and they don't like what the see in the media in it's attempt to make this GOP nomination a two man race. We see a heck of a lot more to like in Herman Cain than we do in Romney. If Cain does as well in the next debate as he did in this one watch Independents swarm to his camp. I recently talked to a group of independents that I hang with and that is the feeling I got. For the most part they are professional people with a mix of blue collar folks who are for the first time attempting to do a business start up because they can't find work. No sitting for 99 weeks on the dole for these Independents.
ducky - 'our useless popular culture is too concered with Dancing With The Stars...
But, ducky did you see Chaz Bono on the opening of DWTS?
What poise, grace and guts.
I was so proud of him.
No Sue, I didn't see Chaz.
I have no intention of finding out whether Chaz can dance or not.
I'm more concerned with why the demonstrations on Wall Street aren't being by the "liberal media" (LMAO).
If this were a few thousand Tea Baggers it would be all over the "liberal media" dontcha think?
quite a change is putting it mildly.
Voter remorse, to put it mildly, is increasing exponentially.
Let's be blunt: Obama's Presidency is an epic fail.
Looking at the poll in full, it generally makes sense. GOPs, quite naturally, think Obama's worse than Bush. Dems, quite naturally, think Obama's better than Bush.
But most interstingly, independents, who had a lot to do with the ascendency of Obama, also think he's worse than Bush. Which, as the article suggests, is a particularly low rating since most Americans thought so little of Bush toward the end of his 2nd term.
Regardless, it all comes down to the unemployment rate. If it goes up significantly, Obama's toast. If it goes down significantly, he's got four more years.
If it stagnates, he's very much in jeopardy, but it could still go either way, I think. And of course, his fate also has a lot to do with who the GOP chooses for their nominee. Which could be, what, one of a dozen persons at this point? =)
The economy is all Americans care about these days. Foreign policy, education, etc., are all on the back burner.
Ticker said: The only time the LSM can get a good word in on Obama is when he shuts his mouth for a couple of days..
Not to mention that his opening his mouth tanks the markets. Sheesh.
Hey! Mustang his here!
I miss his blog.
If this were a few thousand Tea Baggers it would be all over the "liberal media" dontcha think?
Well when there was a few hundred thousand in DC they only got coverage on FOX ,maybe they LSM couldn't' find any of those racist signs.
As far as the Wall Street protested who wants to give publicity t a bunch of union thug hippie types. Shouldn't they be working?
how did you miss this Ducky?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKqJzLPciM4
I think before Obama's done we will see more people miss Bush than not
What has caused people to believe this lie? God knows....cough, cough...Fox News.......cough, cough Rush Limbaugh......cough, cough...Michael Savage....stupid people......cough, cough...Michelle Malkin....teabaggers....
Oh, Man, BD....now the polls are lying? You're delusional..keep pitchin'!
Ducky, actually, it was odd that they didn't cover the Wall St protests as much as they might have. I figure they looked too stupid and the media was embarrassed or they got so little people compared to the Tea Parties, they didn't think it deserved coverage?
Talk about STUPID...Michael Moore's now comparing ridding our country of capitalism to how we rid ourselves of slavery and got the women the vote. THAT is stupid and THAT won't be covered much in the media, trust me. I was ABOUT to say "Even the Left understands capitalism is what's made our country great" but I'm not really sure of how the lefties stand on that anymore...capitalism is exactly what made us EXCEPTIONAL.
Lisa; You're a FIGHTER and you do the homework...thanks SO MUCH!
AOW...I miss Mustang's writing; he is amazing!
Beamish...let's hope that all sticks.
The last thing I'd do is wish our countrymen no jobs, though...THAT has to change.
net observer; I agree with you. It's the INDEPENDENTS that will decide the election.
Or Conservatives who don't think the GOP pick is CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH: they'll win it for Obama like they helped him win it last time.
"Michael Moore's now comparing ridding our country of capitalism..."
Might we rid ourselves of Moore instead? Give him to the UN where he can be shipped off to the Sudan and Dafur all dressed and packaged.
I'm sure he'd feed about 1 million starving Africans.
Imp, that made me laugh! Especially any cannibals which might be left on the great continent, huh? :-)
"Michael MOORE, I presuuuuume!"
Ya, this NOTHING from near Flint, Michigan becomes RICH and now he wants to get rid of the ONLY system he could have become rich on. THAT is RICH.
"did you see Chaz Bono on the opening of DWTS?"
Nope...but I'd like to see her, him, it....boff Bill Maher in the can. On his show too.
Another place where sue gets her news from. DWTS...LOL
Hey....you sure didn't stay away long....no more friends to play with?
"now he wants to get rid of the ONLY system he could have become rich on. THAT is RICH."
Yea...cause he wants to keep the masses of asses poor and stupid....therefore he wields the power they so desperately want. Even more than money. It's all about power. Do you think anyone would gives this horses ass a minute if he wasn't...."connected" by money?
"cough, cough"...
bd...you OK there bug boy? We wouldn't want you to choke to death now....you give us so much to laugh at with your juvenile BS that we've come to insist you continue to make a fool of your parents.
Those poor people.
"And of course, his fate also has a lot to do with who the GOP chooses for their nominee. Which could be, what, one of a dozen persons at this point? =)"
Hi Net, may I remind you that Bill Clinton was one of what then was called, "The Seven Dwarfs"?
My my, the more things change, the more they stay the same. No matter what, we too, will end up with one, and in short order, the rest will be forgotten.
The beat goes on, huh?
BTW bd...do you know what a teabag is?
Or are you one that's devoted to that particularly disgusting method of homo joy?
My mother, I'm ashamed to admit, does watch that Dancing show......I'd never seen it but we were on the phone when she said "Here's Chaz Bono now...yikes!" And I turned it on.
Well, the whole thing's so perverse and I feel for someone who's felt like he seems to have all his life, but I've got to hand it to the 'guy'....he did it with aplomb. That takes GUTS, folks, to be a transsexual that well known and strut your stuff on TV.
I had to admit I was pretty amazed at his confidence.
I also felt that about Chelsea Clinton when she danced ballet at her fancy private school with the TV cameras on her......it takes BIG guts to do that when you know people will talk about you afterwards.
As a performer myself (have to sing for 200 tomorrow morning...and I don't really know the accompaniment that well yet), I know that it takes guts at ANY time, but when you're a celebrity and people might tear you apart, that takes REAL guts.
Imp; what do you want to bet Bd's folks are or were Conservative?
it is embarrassing.
Pris, "the Seven Dwarfs" being the team of Dems running that year?
"what do you want to bet Bd's folks are or were Conservative?
it is embarrassing."
That's why I said he continues to make fools of his parents and cause them such trauma and sadness. One can tell when he's off his Librium too.
And you said to him "keep on pitchin"? I have the feeling he's a "catcher" instead. He is apparently fond of teabagging.
"Michael Moore's now comparing ridding our country of capitalism..."
I'm fascinated with the fact that how easy it is to be a socialist when one has a wad of cash in a bank account.
As they cry for a more socialist system,they are a practicing capitalist. As they reap the rewards of the capitalist system.
They whine to the present administration that they aren't paying enough taxes,when the fact is, nobody is stopping them from paying more taxes....
Ducky - I, too, am concerned about Wall Street, the economic problems in Greece that will impact world economy, and all of that.
But most of all I am a 'people'
person and admire individual courage, and people who stand on the front line.
That's where my comment about Chaz Bono came from.
"I'm fascinated with the fact that how easy it is to be a socialist when one has a wad of cash in a bank account."
Yet they still have the masses of dimwits believing that the party of money is the R party!! They still believe that the Dems are the party of the poor, destitute and disenfranchised from the brass ring that the R's are born into.
Meanwhile Comrade O throws parties just to meet him for 40K to 18K a plate. And the peasants need not apply for an audience either. Wrong class of "poor" ya know?
Then go's off on 50k a week jaunts to the bastion of liberal wealth...Martha's Vineyard. Yet the saps can't find it on a map.
Ever been to Barnstable Noble airport? I have and it's a parking lot for G4's G5's and every expensive corporate jet on the planet...for the Kerry's, Kennedy's and filthy rich libs.
And I've flown the Koch brothers ( billionaires ) there in a lousy ( compared to the latter Jets ) Lear 55!!! Which costs 1/2 as much as the Dems air taxi's.
And Michele (Marie ) buys $500 sneakers and designer labels from Dracula. Jaunts to Spain costing over 500K.
Meanwhile out of the 15 richest people in government....9..or 2/3's are Democrats. Kerry for one...worth 138 Million?
Pelosi? Filthy rich too.
Boxer...same thing. Lautenberg...ditto.
Kennedy's.....pfffffffftttttt...filthy rich since Moses was on a training bike.
Sad...they really have these chumps thinking they too live on 25k a year and have to stand in line for food stamps.
And Michele (Marie ) buys $500 sneakers and designer labels from Dracula. Jaunts to Spain costing over 500K.
---------
Little class warfare there, hypocrite?
"Little class warfare there, hypocrite?"
Yea...you noticed that too duck? All those rich Dems pretending they understand what is is to fill a gas tank vs $8 a gallon for 5000 gallons of JetA for a G4 / 5?
And my God...the price of Grey Goose and Chivas these days? While a schmuck can't afford a 6 pack? You know...they live all around you in Bean Town..and Nantucket, Martha's and P town.
You've been to P town haven't you? Have a beach house there or a flower shop too?
"But most of all I am a 'people'
person and admire individual courage, and people who stand on the front line."
Hmmmm.....like Palin or Bachman or Nikki Haley or Jan Brewer? Or Herman Cain or Alan West ( on real front lines too ) or Scott Brown or Thomas Sowell or Clarence Thomas or Star Parker.....or is it just limited to creatures who have been medically altered to pretend they're something they're not? Like Bill Maher or......the Chaz?
Z I love to sing....in the shower although I do walk around the hose singing sometimes.
My brother is a good singer. He was a big karaoke junkie at one time and at his friend's wedding he had him sing with the band. I think he did Twist and Shout.
My new 2012 Bumper sticker "The Other Guy/2012"
No Impert, my summer place is in Rockport.
If it stagnates, he's very much in jeopardy
------------
Check this out, someone hasn't figured out who's taking the fall during this mess.
He's got his hopes on Herman giving him a delivery job as the middle class starts eating more cheap artery clogging crap.
Ah, so Ducky, you blame Herman Cain for PIZZA? REALLY?
"you blame Herman Cain"
Nah...I think this was a back handed way of saying that the black Mr. Cain...is not the right kind of black for his errrrr..."tastes".
So...he blames the success of his pizza empire on him and that causes clogged arteries. Never mind that the guy who owns Dominos....is a white guy peddling the same....artery cloggers. Move to NYC duck...the libber BloomTurd will have to approve of your food choices.
Damn duckbutt has turned totally stupid with the remarks about Cain.
I'd love to see Odumber and Cain go head to head. Odumber's narcissistic head would explode by the time Cain not only packed his lunch but ate it as well.
Braindead sure brings a lot of laughter to the site. Please contineu with your stupid remarks Braindead. All can see that logical thinking is not your strong suit. In fact it appears that thinking is not your strong suit either. Anyhow, you are great (cough, cough) for a laugh. Hahahahaahah.
Cain v Obama. An absolute dream scenario for any political junkie.
I can see it now. On one side, we have Herman Cain. This a man who hails from two black parents with VERY modest backgrounds; a guy who also attended the same black college MLK attended; a man who actually experienced life in the segregated South. A man with, frankly, more of an "African-American" accent than his opponent.
THIS is the guy who would champion Tea Party!
On the other side, we have a Harvard lawyer and professor, with a rather mixed racial background; an African last name, an Arabic middle name, but, a guy who used to lament the fact that he DIDN'T experience much "black culture" as a youngster, who, as a result, felt compelled to go out and "find it".
Obama is also a guy who, during his presidential campaign, arguably, went out of his way to avoid appearing "too black".
And THAT guy is supposedly champion for Black America!
I'm sorry; that whole scenario is extremely entertaining to me lol
I spoke to my pops recently (almost 80 yrs age), a man who HATES the GOP... He kinda made me chuckle when he admitted a fascination with Herman Cain's recent visibility.
It made me think, what if Obama's 95% of the black vote were cut to, say, 80%, or 70%?
I wonder about all those people who claimed black people and other people voted for Obama because he was black. What the heck would they say this time? lol
Net....what an excellent bunch of thinking there; you are so right; ironic, isn't it?
So, what do the Black folks REALLY want? An angry young guy who sports Obama's history (let's face it, there isn't one pro AMerican influence we know of in his LIFE when one considers his mentor Frank Marshall, his pastor, his profs, etc.) ANd, we don't know yet WHO paid for Occidental or Columbia or Harvard...?? Odd (who shares very little with most of them, frankly)
or Herman Cain, who worked hard to get where he is and is satisfying and admirable an American success story as you get.
Or Alan West, who Conservatives LOVE, too........a very VERy interesting point you make.
Shame on your dad :=)
Well, as you might suspect, I would never categorize Obama as "angry" or "anti-American". Like I've said before, prior to 9/11, so-called anti-Americanism was more or less the norm among many, many African-Americans -- myself included.
Even Clarence Thomas admits that about his youth.
And frankly, if you ask me, Cain sounds angrier.
We also have to the face the fact that most blacks vote Democrat -- and don't trust the GOP/Tea Party -- in the first place. So offhand, I wouldn't expect anything super-dramatic.
But I love the scenario. That I must concede.
" If African-Americans don’t do well among Republicans, it’s evidence of racism, and now if they do get support among Republicans, that’s also racism."
I love Cain. If I'm going to vote for a Black man as POTUS...he better be the real deal. A man who can trace his parentage / ancestry all the way back to his AMERICAN roots. Not Indonesia, Kenya or at the time...that barely a state where Comrade O's name was dropped into a local penny pincher newspaper... .Hawaii!
And I'll bet Cain has an authentic COLB...we'll know his academic records, who his friends were in his youth and who he worked with at a Burger King.
"Cain was born in Memphis, Tennessee, son of Luther Cain, Jr. and his wife Lenora Davis.[His mother was a cleaning woman and his father was a chauffeur. He grew up in Georgia."
And I'll bet Cain would say his Dad was proud to drive Miss Daisy too.
A truly American...AMERICAN...dream team would be Cain / West. Or West / Cain...I don't care. Both are a magnificent pairing. Yet...I'll guarantee most black voters will refuse to come to that team up. Two authentic Americans without a questionable past, a true record of achievement, business success ( whereas the current fraud never ran a lemonade stand ), heroic actions and service to their country.
"so-called anti-Americanism was more or less the norm among many, many African-Americans -- myself included."
Which I think is on the rise again. Explain that to me. Like Z asked..."So, what do the Black folks REALLY want?"
Both Cain and West refuse to be hyphenated. Both Cain and West have authentic bonafides. I recall that not too long ago among Blacks...Obama would have been considered, not Black enough as his mother certainly wasn't.
Now there's two black Americans without any questions about their heritage. And they can't get elected?
Imp, if you ask me, anti-Americanism among blacks today is clearly NOT on the rise. Today's generation of African-Americans -- not the thugs, but the rank-and-file middle-class African-American -- are probably the most assimilated, most "American" set of African-Americans I have witnessed in my lifetime -- esp. the young ones.
In a small way, you demonstrated that when you pointed out how Obama would NOT have been considered "black enough" a generation or so ago.
I guarantee you, there's no way a Farrakhan or anybody could pull off a march on Washington like he did back in '96. The overall mentality among blacks is just too different.
At this point, it REALLY isn't about race, although people on both sides insist that it is.
It's not even necessarily about left vs right.
My best friend is a black man, a true family man, hard-working, successful, an atheist, former-GOP-er, ardent Obama supporter, yet, probably more socially conservative than most.
I am a black man. I've told you about my GOP roots. I'm almost in the Ron Paul camp when it comes to economics. I'm an atheist. A very civil person. But I can hardly relate to today's GOP at all. But I would NEVER call myself a Democrat.
I have two more friends from my former days as a GOP-er. They are both black, both staunch GOP-ers, extremely Afrocentric, very Christian, so I guess they're okay lol
My mom is very much a Christian, very responsible with her money, anti-drugs, anti-crime, relatively apolitical, but would never vote GOP.
You ask, "What do African-Americans want?" I ask, "What does ANYBODY want?" lol It ain't THAT simple.
For example, when I hear right-wingers complain about the media, despite the pre-eminence of conservative views on Fox and in talk radio, believe me, I ask the same question: "What the heck do these people want? Do they want ALL the media to look like Fox? Do they want the gov't to make the other networks look like Fox?"
Now there's two black Americans without any questions about their heritage. And they can't get elected?
Amazing isn't it? These 2 inspirational figures over the class warfare,finger pointing,Chicago rabble rouser?
2 men with a solid and credible background ,how un-American.
"Do they want ALL the media to look like Fox? Do they want the gov't to make the other networks look like Fox?"
You mean as far as "Fair and Balanced" hogwash that the left wanted to impose on the media? It's certainly clear to me that CNN, MSNO Blacks Corp, ABC, NBC ( another no black commentators ) or CBS is decidedly and purposely on the left with no other opinions wanted or needed.
And it's clear that with their ratings failures, both in Radio and TV that people are wising up to the rot they're subjected to on the LSM nets.
That they've been carrying Comrade O's water from the beginning are are continuing despite the Ones dismal record of legislative failure and inadequacy, desperation, the harmful failure of racial politics and identity politics....proves that they aren't interested in truth. The left cannot and will not compete fairly in the arena of ideas/ markets. They carry hate, lies, disinformation and are almost 98% disingenuous on all topics.
And they succeeded in splitting America apart into two separate camps....that are identified only by ideology...not by Americanism.
Schultz, Matthews, that 12 year old boy, Maddow, O'Donnell are misogynists, avowed socialists / Commie / Reds and IMO slightly deranged. Who else carries Jeannine Garafolo, Moore and other rabid loons, lovers of Chavez and Che than the LSM. People don't want to be fed that shit.
Fox...has their libs....and they get their fair share of time to spout their bilge...the others....never.
Bush lied, ignored warnings, hundreds of thousands died and ruined our economy. Obama.....he got Osama.
Impertinent: nice selective, albeit wacko, reasoning.
The Koch brothers accumulated $15 billion in wealth since March 2010, a 43% increase (forbes.com)
http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011/09/21/324969/forbes-koch-brothers-now-worth-50-billion/
"I spoke to my pops recently (almost 80 yrs age), a man who HATES the GOP..."
Bless our elders Net....but I have to ask since 'pops' was born well before 1964, in 1931. So as a young man in his 30's pre 1964...before the Great Society and LBJ....
what was he then? Since most Blacks were in the GOP...the Party of emancipation....not the Dems...the historical party of slavery, now socialism, thuggery and perennial parasites.
"The Koch brothers accumulated $15 billion in wealth since March 2010, a 43% increase ...."
Bd...what a knuclkehead. Bill Gates....58 billion....Mark ( the pimple ) Zuckerberg...25+ billion...both liberal propeller heads.
Warren Buffet....owner of Net Jets ( not nice to lambast corporate jet owners when one of your biggest supporters has a fleet of them!! )....60 billion +/- a couple billion.
And Koch industries...is heavily invested and marketeers of Oil / petro products. Does your broom use gas of fairy farts to get around?
Do you also begrudge Shell / Exxon - Mobil , Phillips, Texaco or Hess enormous quarterly profits in the same industry as Koch? Koch invented a new method for refining heavy oil into gasoline. Seems like he has made a huge contribution to American society, productivity and mobility.
It's America knucklehead. Now tell me whay it's ok for the liberals to be billionaires while it isn't OK for the Repubs? Or just STFU.
Bush lied
about what?
ignored warnings
about what?
hundreds of thousands died
where?
and ruined our economy.
Huh? Bush's economy had a AAA credit rating.
Obama.....he got Osama.
With intel obtained how?
One more insult to the average American...in order to seek "no justice...no peace...no justice...no peace" morons...the HAIC decided to pass a decree that banks had to limit the amount of vig / interest and atm charges they could assess against a customer.
Soooooooo....the banks said...well FU Obama...FU customers...FU account holders....we'll now charge EVERYONE....18% interest and $5 just to use their ATM cards...on their own accounts....withdrawing their own money because Comrade O is such a complete asshole...that we'll still get the money we made before.
And that is...to punish the very people that have never F'd the bank to make up for the short fall...that the dopey..."Obama gonna pay my rent...Obama gonna buy my gas" crowd...thought was free.
Another grab by the banks? No...another grab by the socialist, commie in the WH that thought he was smarter than the pin suits.
Imp,
I am genuinely glad you asked me that question, because I honestly had no idea about my pops political leanings, or my moms political leanings -- pre-60s. Until now...
Indeed, I asked both of them.
For the record, they've always been Dems, but not nearly as staunch as they are today. Their first presidential vote ever was Stevenson against Eisenhower.
Oddly, they admitted that they generally liked Eisenhower as a president (they never explained why), even though they voted for Stevenson.
They also admitted that their vote for Stevenson was probably a legacy vote of sorts. i.e., FDR/Dems, by that time, had convinced them (and apparently most Americans) that Dems were more pro-working man and GOP-ers were more pro-elite. Ergo, many rural blacks -- particularly the lesser educated and the impoverished -- felt an affinity to the Dems because of that.
At the same, strangely, the Klan were still ridin' horses and burning crosses in front of their homes and churches -- and the KKK were all legacy Dems.
My parents also claimed -- and I think this is a very important point -- that back then, the "average" rural black Southerner didn't vote much and really wasn't educated about the importance of voting in the first place. Obviously, the existing "framework" of the "Old South" had something to do with that.
But the more educated, more successful blacks did in fact vote pre-mid-60s Voting Rights Act, and they were oftentimes legacy Lincoln-GOP-ers. But even that depended on where they lived much of the time. i.e., if the KKK/"Jim Crowe" was strong in their particular neighborhood, they didn't vote much either.
The kind of predictable, "automatic Democrat" switch in the black community today is a relatively new historical phenomenon. It's interesting. Esp. now, when we could possibly be witnessing two black men going head to head in 2012 for the Presidency of the Unites States.
To know all that other stuff happened only 60 years ago. It's crazy lol
Net...and I am genuinely glad that you took the time to respond with an intelligent, eloquent response on a subject that has always mystified me.
Of course your parents may be an anomaly in as much has this isn't a scientific poll / study of Black voting habits per 1964! LOL
But you do bring up some very interesting and enlightening points. And for the record...my Pops and Mom were also staunch Democrats at the same time yours were. My Dad a WW2 vet and my Mom addicted to the FDR philosophy and in love with the Kennedys'. But because, for some obscure reason they believed he was a "middle class" savior?
No..because he was a Catholic. Pure and simple it was ethnic and identity politics. Only we didn't call it that then.
"Oddly, they admitted that they generally liked Eisenhower as a president"
Not Odd at all. Ike was the savior of the free world and was responsible for the death of Nazism / fascism. Who the hell would ever utter a word of contempt against the Supreme Commander and "Savior" of modern man in the 20th Century? Ike deserved and earned the office. Unlike his poor comrade Winston who was unceremoniously booted after the wars end. Nice of the Brits to treat him so shabbily, eh?
I suppose Stevenson was a throwaway vote?
"At the same, strangely, the Klan were still ridin' horses and burning crosses in front of their homes and churches -- and the KKK were all legacy Dems."
So..what would possess them to cast a vote for this legacy, post war, racist? Even if he personally wasn't...his party of "legacy", cross burnin', hooded democrats should have been all they needed to run away from the Dems.
"The kind of predictable, "automatic Democrat" switch in the black community today is a relatively new historical phenomenon. It's interesting. Esp. now, when we could possibly be witnessing two black men going head to head in 2012 for the Presidency of the Unites States. "
Net....so what's happening now? Are we witnessing a regression of sorts without giving what I see as the one who's more authentic of the two....Cain is, without any shadow of a doubt...unlike his adversary....without any controversy or doubt about his heritage, parentage or citizenship, an authentic American Black man who's qualified ( more so so much more more so that the current occupant ) for POTUS.
Black Americans have a unique opportunity....once in a life time to vote for one who's truly...one of their own. Truly an American success story....truly a son of the South...truly invested in the prosperity of America. Blacks have a chance to kick the frauds ass out....and elect a man of the South. A man that's proved one can overcome, cancer, disease, prejudice and become POTUS...with the backing of all Americans.
How many times will we see this opportunity of a Cain / West...West / Cain ever gain in out lifetimes.
Boot this poseur...this fraud out.
America loves this guy Cain. This should tell you something.
I only scanned the comments quickly cuz I've gotta go, but net.....
you keep talking about Blacks who couldn't vote Republican and I'd like to know why....
Z, even though the term has been tossed around quite loosely over the years, I think the so-called "Southern Strategy" has left a stench around the GOP that is, at best, difficult to remove.
I know you don't accept the premise, but far too often, white conservatives, at times, SOUND sympathetic to white racialists.
When I hear someone like Glen Beck say that he thinks Barack Obama has a deep hatred for white people, it sounds flat-out silly and stupid to me. But to most blacks, it probably sounds a lot worse.
I hate to bring it up, Z, but that recent "Baby, Gimme One More Chance" cartoon is a classic illustration of what I'm talking about. I don't think I can describe to you how much it blew my mind to see the responses to my very fair, very politely phrased question: "Do you understand why someone outside of your conservative world might perceive this as race-bait?"
Apparently, the collective answer was "No, and this is just your political correctness running amuck".
I thought, well, okay. But we all know that a liberal cartoonist could never do the same thing with Clarence Thomas' without conservatives from every corner specifically condemning it as "liberal racism".
To me, this is arguably worse than actually BEING a racist. Because this means that these conservatives, who, in all likelihood, don't mean any harm, are literally unable to see themselves as others see them.
I spent many of my younger years with a similar frustration with the black left. Back in the 90s, when Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam were able to convince hundreds of thousands of black men across the country to march on Washington DC a work day, I personally thought it was quintessential evidence that, at least on some levels, "Black America" was living in la-la land. I thought, "How in the heck did we go from MLK/SCLC to Farrakhan/Numerology/"Yakub's Story"?
And I can only imagine what the rank-and-file white guy was thinking at the time.
At any rate, I think the situations are very analogous: What seems normal and logical, and perfectly appropriate to persons within a particular sphere, can oftentimes look bizarre -- or racist, or heartless, or stupid, or weird -- to everybody else.
But unfortunately, the people within the circle are true believers who honestly see themselves as "on the right side of history". So they don't really care what others think. They probably don't even feel the need to explain themselves.
They see themselves as the embattled ones, so why bother appealing to "the enemy"?
In my opinion, it's a major problem. And I don't know how to fix it if people aren't willing to let go of their defensive instincts, and engage in more honest and civil dialogue.
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