Friday, January 13, 2012

Angry and starting the election games........?

"I'm tired of being PAINTED as an angry BLACK woman."   Michelle Obama. 
Let the race card begin.

Have you heard any mainstream conservative or leftwing radio or television accusing her of being an angry black woman?  And did you hear how incorrectly Media Matters represented O'Reilly's (who's actually been quite kind to Michelle Obama) comments regarding anger in Mrs. O and then ABC didn't vet it and ran with it?  Wow.




Always On Watch said...

What was that thesis paper that MO wrote?

Speedy G said...

The thesis paper was on black elite college attendee's who sell out and don't return to their communities. It was an argument in favour of black separatism and against cultural synthesis with whites. She has since had a "change of heart" and can be proud of "some" American accomplishments.

Of course, playing the anti-semitism card is almost as prevalent a problem as playing the race card in modern politics. Why do you suppose that is? Because it's easy?

Joe said...

Want to know what MO is really all about?

See the in depth interview of her by Gayle King on the new CBS morning show.

What a joke!

KnuckledragginAndI'mFeelinNoPain said...

I'm sorry but Moochele's sxplantion simply won't wash. It's an attempt to change the subject. It's a way to say that any criticism of the Obamas - or even any truthful warts-and-all portrayal - is racist and therefore unacceptable. And people will see through it.
There are parallels with Hillary Clinton's claim as the Monica Lewinsky scandal was unfolding that there was a "vast Right-wing conspiracy" to get her husband. Certainly, Bill Clinton had determined antagonists on the Right but the reaction of most ordinary Americans to Hillary's conspiracy claim was: "Yes, but your husband was having sex with an intern."
You can watch the CBS interview with Michelle Obama here. It's worth watching the whole thing because it's a train wreck right from the moment at the outset where the First Lady claims she hasn't read the book (she's on television to rebut things in a book - of course she's read all the relevant excerpts).
She then states she's "never had a cross word" with Rahm Emanuel. The now Mayor of Chicago is one of the most combative men on the planet. If she's never had a cross word with him, she's almost unique in Washington and Chicago.
If anything, Michelle Obama's evocation of a racist conspiracy is even less plausible than Hillery's claim.
I listened on NPR yesterday to an interview with Jodi Kantor about her book. You couldn't imagine a person less likely to initiate a racial attack on Michelle Obama. Almost everything she said was positive and complimentary about the Obamas. She even talked about how unfair the "angry black woman" label was.
Maybe we should replace angry, black, or woman with "Angry Black Bitch" ?

Z said...

There are plenty of WHITE angry women; I don't see the point in her mentioning color.
Well, I SEE it, but I think it's about bringing up race before the election. again

They've played the race card, the class warfare card, and it seems there's now a way of returning to the race card in less blatant fashion. This is it.

How many Americans just hear it and react viscerally to that ugly race thing of calling a Black woman ANGRY...never reminding themselves "who said THAT?"

Knuckledraggin said...

Didn't Carlos Santana have a big hit record by that title, Black Angry Woman?

Z said...

Knuckle....they sure did!

Hey, is anybody listening to Obama's speech right now about how he wants a leaner government? "as I promised at my election" ? I don't know why he's getting to it now and talking so much about it, do YOU? :-) (think elections)

He blames Nixon pointedly for having not put a part of one government's department in the hands of someone who'd criticized his stand on Vietnam....I wish I got the details but I was too stunned at the typical blame game to think at the moment. This is the gist of it.
" That bad Republican NIXON didn't like someone, so we have big government departments" seems to be the mantra....otherwise, what WAS the point to mentioning it?

Ducky's here said...

All that's going on in the world and this is what gets our attention.

We are a sorry people.

Silverfiddle said...

She is not an angry black woman, and she'll honkey-slap the next whitey who repeats such lies!

Bob said...

Angry black woman? Shoot, there's nothing special about that. I live in Atlanta, and most of the black women I meet are angry. So are the Hispanic women.

Asian chicks are pissed, too. Uh-ohh. I think the white fems are in about the same state of mind.

We used to call it PMS. Now, a woman is just angry.

Always On Watch said...

LOL to Bob's comment!

Always On Watch said...

Joe mentioned this video. Obviously a pr move -- and perhaps some damage control related to the book that recently came out, the book that heavily criticized MO.

BTW, I've never seen MO so syrupy sweet as in that CBS video. Sheesh.

net observer said...

If this is an example "the race card", the other side is certainly no better when personalities like Cain, Coulter, Limbaugh et al reflexively decry "the left" (which could be anybody at this point) of being "racist" when they have the gall to point out an obvious flaw in a black conservative.

I agree with Condi Rice. I don't like it when EITHER side plays the so-called race card. But I would further add that ALL "victim" cards represent cheap attempts to push an agenda when substance is lacking.

Just one man's humble opinion. (oops, I just played the male gender card)

Lisa said...

To what Bob said-I used to live in a mixed neighborhood and people spoke Spanish in public. Now I can't speak it but I can read and write it. But I can speak backwards fluently. As can my brother and 2 close friends I grew up with. We practiced it for many years. Well anyway my friend and I 2 times were in a local stationary store and another time in a grocery store and we talked backwards to each other in front of Spanish ladies and did we ever get the dirtiest looks from them. And I loved every minute of it.

Ticker said...

She is a racist, pure and simple, just like her racist husband who hates white folks even though they are the ones got him where he is today.

On his speech. I said I was not going to Political blog but this was too good to pass up. So I did it this AM.
A Plea for Shrinking Government or a Demand for “The Enabling Act

Ducky and the rest of the libs will love it. hahaha

Z said...

net "Cain, Coulter, Limbaugh et al reflexively decry "the left" (which could be anybody at this point) of being "racist" when they have the gall to point out an obvious flaw in a black conservative."

I'd like to see an example of these...thanks.

The POINT IS that she felt moved to use the term ANGRY BLACK WOMAN... Who's EVER EVER accused her of that? EVER?

LISA>.so those speaking Spanish in America didn't like it when you spoke something they couldn't understand, huh? Typical. You can talk BACKWARDS?

Ducky, maybe you'd be much happier at a blog which endlessly goes over the same thing....
Plus, we feel character IS important.

Knuckles...I think the parallels between this ridiculous comment by Mrs. O and Hillary Clinton's protestations about the sex scandal are very very interesting...thanks for that. Yes, Hillary went straight for the Conservative jugular as if it were our fault her husband screwed around and lied about it.
Yes, Hillary blamed the Right and Mrs. O is jumping right in there as if ANYBODY's EVER called her that! Perfect race baiting.
And just in time for 2012. This won't be the end of it.
If you DARE not vote for Obama, you're a racist, PERIOD. (unbelievable...the left is in the dark ages)

Z said...

AOW, I just watched that video interview and was not surprised that the minute Gail mentioned cell phones for the kids, Mrs. O went into overdrive explaining how they have it, why they have it, the rules they live by, everything's watched, etc... (no inch of room left for criticism)

Then Gail who, along with Oprah, is a great friend of the Obama's, mentions the red velvet theater in the WH and Mrs. O goes immediately, when sensing Gail's disdain for the red velvet, into "it was here when we came.." :-)
Blame it on BUSH!

But, really....if I admired Mrs. Obama's politics and how she lied about knowing Bernadette Dorn, or how she left the Chicago hospital after leaving and nobody had to replace her tho she did something that supposedly merited $250K a year, and if I admired how her brother kept his job though the team was poised to fire him, if I admired her saying she'd never been proud to be an American, if I admired her thesis, etc etc.......I'd think this was a very nice piece, too.

Frankly, I look forward to watching a First Lady interview which I can admire. I always thought Mrs. Laura Bush was a complete lady and liked when even the Left couldn't come up with something to criticize; or how she never felt she had to explain anything in cover any grounds for possible criticism. No guilt there, just guileless goodness.

I'll tell you something about Mrs. O; I wish I had her people for hair and makeup...she's not an unattractive woman but they REALLY did wonderful things with her once she was in the WH. She looks great.

And, as I've said here many, many times, I think that older daughter of hers is a ROCK STAR in looks and poise. Always admired that little girl ...

Funny, a few times I said that, a liberal commenter of mine, a woman, slammed me hard for not being a good feminist. Apparently, to the left, even a woman can't mention how lovely a little girl is without showing .... something? I'm not sure what, but that stunned me almost more than anything else I"ve rec'd at this blog in the way of criticism.

Lisa said...

Z-it started when we were kids m brother started taking words and turning them around and pronouncing them back wards then we both started doing it and my friend who grew up across the street from us and my Friend who lived in back of us(we still keep in touch)both joined in and started doing it. We were able to speak full sentences in about a year and continued to do ever since. Used to drive my parents nuts,lol!!!
We do it phonetically. It makes it easier to decipher the words . Like for instance when we say the word everything. We will say "every" firsts and the "thing" 2nd and when we say the "th" sound we keep it the same as when you sat it forward" . If your wrote it would look like "gnith"
I can't even say how many years we have been doing it. More than 30. We never forgot it. My one friend who does it Cathy we say her name like ythac. it would sound like "eethac"

Many of my friends even those who don't do it call me "Azil" even though it really should be an "s" sound it has a better roll to it.
My husband is Paul and we call him laup. Sounds like "lawp"

I know I'm crazy. but it came in handy in many an occasion.

Liberalmann said...

Here ya go, idiots:

"Right-Wing Media Lash Out At Michelle Obama For Addressing "Angry Black Woman" Stereotype"

Right-wing media are accusing first lady Michelle Obama of "play[ing] the race card" after she rebutted claims that she is an "angry black woman." Many of these same right-wing media figures, however, have for years invoked that very stereotype when criticizing her.

Fox News' Sean Hannity: Michelle Obama Sounds "So Bitter And Angry." On the May 11, 2008,

Fox News' Juan Williams: Michelle Obama "Sometimes Uses" A "Kind Of Militant Anger.

John McLaughlin: "You Don't Think She's A Black Militant?" During a February 2008 discussion

Tucker Carlson: Michelle Obama Has "Got A Chip On Her Shoulder."

Limbaugh: Michelle Obama "Is Angry All The Time." In June 2009,

Limbaugh On Michelle Obama: "Why The Anger? Why The Balled Up Fists? Why The Rage?" On the July 13, 2010, edition of his show, Limbaugh talked about a speech Michelle Obama gave to the NAACP

O'Reilly: "I Don't Want To Go On A Lynching Party Against Michelle Obama Unless There's Evidence" She Thinks America "Is A Bad Country." In 2008

Z said...

Liberal'man'...when you can come back with anybody saying "she is an angry black woman", please do.

By the way, Hannity's remark was aimed at her husband and he was right.

Juan WIlliams is a liberal...a black liberal :-)

She does look angry! She always has.
But has anybody called her what she says she's been called?
nope. But thanks for the effort of copying/pasting from someone else's bad work.

By the way, how about digging up the leftwingers slamming O'Reilly when he asked someone something like "does she think she's viewed as an angry black woman?" :=)
Media Matters grabbed it, edited it to make him look as bad as possible, and ABC picked it up without question. tsk tsk tsk.

Lisa, that's crazy but sounds like fun. I speak enough Armenian to where I could talk with others who did without worrying someone would catch on.
With the French and German I know, it's hopeless because you'd be surprised how many people you'd never suspect can catch on. (even ROMNEY! Did you hear that RIDICULOUS, NASTY Gingrich today slam Romney for speaking French? I think he's lost it, folks. No wonder Gingrich didn't want to go negative; he doesn't do it well.

Kid said...

Some new your times 'journalist' was on hannity for thr 15 minutes I listen as I drive home.

Wrote a book about the obama's. Compared michele to Nancy Reagan. I don't know what kind of gymnastics you need to entice your brain cells into doing to come up with that but Good Lord.

net observer said...

z, r u kidding? =) the very night cain's foibles began to rise to the surface, conservative media darling ann coulter was on hannity's show predictably whining "liberal racism" like an idiot. during the thomas conf. hearings, rush claimed the opposition was all about "the left" being determined to destroy Black America's 1st black conservative hero. really?

and let's get real, z. in retrospect, herman cain was nothing BUT a conservative race card.

no need to fabricate examples of conservatives playing the race card. they're just as abundant as the other side.

of course, it wasn't always that way. but now apparently it's a viable political strategy.

Kid said...

Well, it's all they have.

Amplify the Racism going for the sympathy(from morons) and continued black vote.

Misdirect as much of the population to think the people that provide them with a way to earn, learn, and move ahead in life are the problem.

Further divide people by having your media arm constantly yapping about all these social issues that have nothing to do with the White House.

It's like living the planet of the apes, and I'm talking Everyone who falls for this crap and let's their eye be taken from the ball.

Lemme ask ya....
What is in your life that came from rich people. Let's see:
food, milk, house, furniture, appliances, ac/furnace, car, fuel for the car, fuel for the house.

What does government provide you?
The Only thing the Federal government provides that I value (and should be the only thing they provide) is National Defense.

It is state and local government that provide for the roads, maintenance of, and police, fire, sewer, water and other support to maintain a reasonable standard of living.

The federal government is way out of control, and it is the democrats that made that happen.

Seems to be two kinds of people - those who want more government in their life and those who don't, and of those who don't, they spend far too much time chasing the fuzzy shiny cat toys the media hangs in front of their faces.

KP said...

"Black Magic Woman" was originally put out by Fleetwood Mac in '68. Santana made it a greater hit in 1970 on Santana's album, Abraxas.

"I got a black magic woman,
Got me so blind I can't see"

C'mon :-)

By the way, there were plenty of white, black and every other color of women in 1970. And for good reason. I understand MO's frustration; coming from where she did in her career to the "wife" of the President. She has a more impressive resume than he does. I think she wants to get out of that house, pronto!

KP said...

Bob: "We used to call it PMS. Now, a woman is just angry."

Oh man ... I know you were laughing! I live with a wife of 25 years, raised two daughters and a female dog that is 14 years old. I know about the 'womens'. I do cherish those moody gals. But, onjectively, they are more even keeled than I am.

I LOVE the pic "Always On Watch" has of the gal flexing her bicep as blogger ID. When I first saw that, I copied it and sent it to my wife and told her "this is how I see you". BOOM!

Lisa said...

Lib you need to stay away from Media Matters. Soros is using his riches to manipulate you,taking things out of context and make useful idiots out of you.
Run don't walk away from the propaganda machine.
Soros one an d only objective is to smear FOX by picking out talking points for morons like you to clap your hands like a mindless mental patient.

Z said...

Kid "Compared michele to Nancy Reagan" That's hilarious.
There IS no honest reporting anymore.

Net, I don't believe for a minute that Cain's popularity was about race. If conservatives (as the media likes to point out) are more racist than libs, it's an odd thing to do to flock around a black man as they flocked around Cain.

Coulter (by the way, you sell her very short; she's brighter than about anybody we could meet and most people see that) was probably right; I don't think the Left feels at all comfortable that Conservatives aren't drinking the idiot Kool Aid that "we're all racists".....
I mean, the Left's a party that says we're racist and hate Obama because he's black ....yet most Cons. would vote for Alan West yesterday if they could. How's that work out for the left?

I still don't believe anybody's called Michelle an ANGRY BLACK WOMAN.

Kid..."shiny cat toys"...perfect

KP...I think Michelle's loving the power but probably wants out, too....they'll be like the Clintons if they ever get out of office. She's looking forward to that, I'm sure.
You can't blame anybody for wanting out of the pressure cooker.

Funny, the CLintons and the Obamas seem to have done such a good job keeping the children private but I realize now it's the children of the left so the media's been very good to them. interesting, isn't it.

"Boom!" huh? that's funny!

Lisa...his other goal is to ruin this country don't forget :-(

Dave Miller said...

On another note, here's a piece by longtime conservative writer Kathleen Parker that appeared in the Wash. Post today that fits nicely in this discussion...

christian soldier said...

Hugs-my Patriot friend-

Jarheads Blog said...

Why is everybody pickin on the First Wookie? It's hard being a Wookie

G-Man said...

Why so angry about being called angry Michelle?

Liberalmann said...

So funny to see wingnuts spin and dance to try to prove they are not racists at heart.

Ticker said...

Media Matters for a source???? HAHHAHAHAH what a flipping joke!!!

Only the idiot side of the left takes anything they write seriously. Guess that pretty well fits liberalmann!

And before you start dumbass libturd, I don't watch Fox as my news source.

Z said...

Dave, author of the piece, too, sees reasons to not ever have been proud of her country. That's troubling and indicative, isn't it.

And the piece shows again that no politico has ever called her an angry black woman but she'll seek anything to prove her point that they have.

"Comment threads on right-wing blogs frequently feature hateful, racist remarks about the first lady."

I've seen plenty of disgruntlement with her....I'm not sure I've seen a racist remark in all the criticism of her spending on vacations, her choosing what we're to eat, etc.

"Is the racial aspect of the criticism an extrapolation of Mrs. Obama and her defenders? It might be but for the fact that those calling her angry happen to be white."

First, where's the racial aspect at all? It's never been poven. And "IT MIGHT BE"? :-)

Jarheads...I'm not sure what wookie means, but it can't be an easy job to be in the WH, that's for sure.

I never saw Mrs. Bush or Mrs. Reagan fight back hard at the criticism they got, did you? And they got plenty.
I guess if there's no race to bring into the mix as part of election game plans, why bother to fight back?

Lib"Mann" (sorry to see two M's...I hope you're not German)...
stop with the 'idiots' or I'll have to start deleting your comments. You should read the comment thread,you could learn some fair thinking.

Bob said...

Net said:"and let's get real, z. in retrospect, herman cain was nothing BUT a conservative race card"

Dude, you are making stuff up as you go along. I agree that it may be fun, but I am one of the original fans of Herman Cain. I live in Atlanta, and have listened to his radio show for a couple of years.

It is easy to identify his shortcomings in foreign relations, but they are no more onerous than Obama's complete lack of understanding or the US role in the world.

I knew that when Cain decided to run that he would probably fall by the wayside, but I also knew that he was smarter than about 75% of the GOP candidates, and ALL of the Democrats.

The one thing Obama could not face was a REAL BLACK MAN of the caliber of Herman Cain. Signs point to Democrats having hired Goria AllRed to help torpedo Cain. Not in any one of the so-called affairs was any evidence offered. It was all hearsay.

So, there we had a real black man, complete with real accomplishments, and a few shortcomings possibly running against a half-black man with no measurable accomplishments in spite of having been the most powerful man in the world.

It gets real simple, real quick. Liberal chit-chatters like you would be quick in disparaging a real man when compared to your favorite black empty suit.

See? I can make stuff up, too, but my stuff is much more believable.

net observer said...


Your response was easily one of the dumbest posts I have ever reed in my 14 years of reading and writing Web-based political commentary. How old are you, bro? 17?

"Liberal chit-chatters"

First things first. What makes me "liberal", Bob? And be please specific.

"your favorite black empty suit"

I'm assuming you're referring to Mr. Obama. Where's the evidence that I'm even a fan, Bob? And please be specific.

"you are making stuff up as you go along"

Such as?

"one of the original fans of Herman Cain"

That's fairly obvious.

"I live in Atlanta, and have listened to his radio show for a couple of years"

Yeah, whatever. Heck, since we're in biographical mode, I might as well follow suit.

I am originally from GA, Bob. Many of my family and friends are still there. I was, believe it or not, a kind of "kindred spirit" fan of Cain's, long before he reached national prominence, and WAY long before his radio show.

I was also, in fact, excited about Herman Cain's recent presidential run -- until he revealed himself as the black male version of Sarah Palin.

I agree. Herman Cain is a very accomplished individual. So is Michael Jordan. But based on what I know about Mr. Jordan, I would never presume he was fit for the Oval Office. But I guess that makes me a bleeding-heart communist Obama worshiper.

"It is easy to identify his shortcomings in foreign relations"

If that ain't the understatement of the last two centuries...

"no more onerous than Obama's complete lack of understanding or the US role in the world"

An area in which your credentials are clearly impeccable.

"I also knew that he was smarter than about 75% of the GOP candidates"

Again, the fact that YOU'RE saying this is like Christopher Hitchens offering advice on how to pray.

"The one thing Obama could not face was a REAL BLACK MAN of the caliber of Herman Cain"

Bob, IF Cain was "real", I would agree with you. Again, as evidenced on this particular blog, I was more or less a Cain supporter. Fwiw, the charges of Cain's womanizing weren't nearly as frightening as his apparent unwillingness to prepare for debates that dealt with subjects beyond "business".

"Signs point to Democrats having hired Goria AllRed to help torpedo Cain"

Bob, at some point, hopefully, we all have to face reality. For your own sake, feel free take your turn. Cain was on book tour disguised as a presidential campaign. He fooled me, too. Life goes on. Get over it.

Then again, you may be one of those "true believers" who camped out to hear Cain give his "suspension of the campaign" announcement. If so, who knows WHAT it would to change your belief system?

Remember P.T. Barnum.

Even Cain's WIFE wasn't hyped about his potential presidential competence. I recall a TV reporter asking her, "Do you think your husband would make a good president?" She replied, "Er, ummm, uhhh, sure, yeah..."

But I'm sure you know better.

"So, there we had a real black man, complete with real accomplishments, and a few shortcomings possibly running against a half-black man with no measurable accomplishments..."

I'm starting to think you may be 15.

"See? I can make stuff up, too, but my stuff is much more believable."

Okay, 12.

They Say/We Say said...

I worked with a couple of black women who had Psychiatrist degrees. Ask me if I was prejudice. I said yea, I can't stand crying drunks and slobbering downer freaks. There was a stare then both broke out in laughter.
When a lib ask me about something that is in the news, and try to tie that to the conservatives; and says that isn't very christian. I always reply with-"How Would You Know"?

KP said...

They Say/We Say:

<< I can't stand crying drunks and slobbering downer freaks. >>


Dave Miller said...

Bob, why is Barack Obama not a real black man like Herman Cain?

What makes Herman Cain blacker than Barack Obama?

What has he done that somehow reduces his BQ [Black Quotient]?

Z said...

Bob, what Dave is questioning caught my attention, too.
What do you mean by 'real black man'?
I certainly totally agree with you about real accomplishments.

BB-Idaho said...

Well, gee- "Media Matters for a source???? HAHHAHAHAH what a flipping joke!!!
Only the idiot side of the left takes anything they write seriously. Guess that pretty well fits liberalmann!
And before you start dumbass libturd, I don't watch Fox as my news source."
....clearly a Conservapedia guy!

Z said...

BB...the Right is VERy tired of the constant insults ANY time we quote from FOX or any other Right of Center source...especially when we know FOX is the only channel (cable or not, other than CSPAN) which has many Leftwing commenters and almost always shows both sides to every situation............

Bob's right. Media Matters is Leftwing...why shouldn't Conservatives doubt its veracity or motivation?

By the way, did you see my question re your train passion? about Marklin?

Dave Miller said...

Z... we have a German version of Ticket to Ride, a great train game made by Marklin and World of Wonder...

The train cards in this game are wonderful...

Z said...

Dave, nephew, under the age of 20, is literally a world's expert on Marklin now, believe it or not. He's cracked a code that was on tape on old train boxes (where it's from, what year, etc.) and done other things the other experts who've been doing this for 50 years can't believe!

I wonder if he knows about this game...thanks!

IntolerantCynicami said...

Dave Miller said...
"Bob, why is Barack Obama not a real black man like Herman Cain?"

There is a difference.
Herman Cain was born in Memphis, Tennessee, to Luther Cain, Jr., who was raised on a farm and worked as a chauffeur, barber and janitor, and to Lenora Caine (née Davis), a cleaning woman and Herman grew up in Georgia. Herman was in high school during the civil rights marches and his parents insisted he go to college instead of going out and protesting, but Herman read about and watched what was happening on the news on a daily basis.

Obama grew up in Kenya, or Indonesia, or Hawaii, or who really knows where, Obama never really had any job at all, and he paled around with domestic terrorists, went to a racist, anti-American, anti Semitic church for over 20 years.
Herman has given many speeches at Tea Party rallies all across America.

Barack says he supports Occupy Wall Street.

Herman Cain was hired to turn struggling companies around to make a profit and hire more employees.
Obama doesn't know which end of a broom to use to clean up the mess that he created!
Why don't you tell me what Obama has done for this country, besides run it into the ground?

BB-Idaho said...

Yes Z, I recall discussing Marklin
quite a while back. German company, some unique track/electrical interface which
is not compatible with my smallscale (N) type equipment..most of which is Chinese or Japanese made..what isn't these days?
I try very hard to avoid insulting
'the right', I guess 'idiot side of
the left' and 'dumbass libturd' (and far worse I've seen here) perturb me and reflect poorly on the writer...Back on subject, I was curious about the juxtaposition of
posts on two black women from completely different perspective.

Bob said...

Dave asked : "why is Barack Obama not a real black man like Herman Cain?"

Good question, Dave, and I probably should have addressed it in my original comment.

Yes. Herman Cain is a black man, and has lived with the prejudices of a black man growing up on the New South/Old South era. Herman and I were born in Memphis, Tennessee, and I know how black people lived, and what was expected of them. If anything the move to Savannah, Georgia worsened conditions for the family, I think, and the racial situation had to be worse.

Please don't misunderstand me. I don't claim to understand the black experience, but I can tell you that Barack Obama doesn't understand, either.

You had to be there to see black people ejected from public buses because there were no more seats in the rear of the bus. Savannah and Memphis were pretty much black towns run by white people, and policed by white cops. Atlanta, of course, was the same type of place.

Barack Obama racially is a black man, but he never suffered like the black Mr Cain.

You may not agree with my opinion, but I don't think it is any kind of a stretch to see things that way, and they are certainly not racist.

Bob said...

net said, "and let's get real, z. in retrospect, herman cain was nothing BUT a conservative race card."

Yeah, you were making it up. Yes, you were being liberal with the situation just by making stuff up. Yes, you could do better.

Sorry your feelings got hurt.

net observer said...


"hurt feelings"?

ironically, i find myself lol-ing hysterically when you post. you remind me of my days hangin' out w/jazz musician friends. whenever they criticized another musician's soloing skills they'd often say, "he's doin' a lotta talkin', but he ain't sayin' nothin'"

that about sums you up, my brethren.

even your allies are dumbfounded by your nonsensical "analysis" about "real blackness". imagine that.

oh, why bother. let me just say thanks for demonstrating to the world the main problem with today's putative "conservative": to you, the world is "liberals vs conservatives", yet you obviously don't even know or care about what those terms actually mean. at best, you're a thoughtless, auto-pilot mega-ditto-head.

my sincere apologies if i hurt your feelings.

net observer said...

Bob, I tried to respond to you a while ago, but it didn't go through. So I'll make this brief.

"hurt feelings"

My feelings only get hurt when I see the rubbish that passes for conservatism these days. (e.g., "Bob")

"Yeah, you were making it up."

I was actually a drawing conclusion based on what I was witnessing. Incidentally, that wild-eyed liberal columnist George Will agreed with me. I guess we're both part of the vast liberal media conspiracy.

"Yes, you were being liberal with the situation just by making stuff up."

Oh, so THAT'S the definition of a liberal.

So, in that case, you're a "liberal", too. Right, Bob? You very casually tossed around this "real black man" foolishness, and then later admitted that you don't know the black experience. So you were just making stuff up. Right? Like a "liberal"? Right, B?

By your theory, if you're black, but not old enough to recall the days of segregation, you could never be "as black" as someone who was.

Based on your bold, brilliant theory, the black slaves of the early 19th century were "blacker" than the emancipated blacks of the latter 19th century.

Earlier, I told you I was basically a Cain supporter at the beginning of his run. That's documented on this blog. How do you think I went from "Cain supporter" to "liberal" in four months? Think maybe it had something to do with...oh, I don't know, Herman Cain himself?

Oh, why bother. Go back to basking in your Rush Limbaugh tapes.

Z said...

BB...thanks, I thought we'd talked Marklin.

you say "I try very hard to avoid insulting'the right',"
Isn't that a little condescending, to say the least?
Do you know how tough I can get here about the left, our president, the Dem party, etc. and don't?

The right's very tired of seeing our country misnegotiated, appeased for, etc etc....FURIOUS is probably a good word for us. And we have every stinkin' right to be.

I don't know what you're alluding to re two black women from different points of view?

net, I wouldn't say Barack isn't a 'real black man', though he is half white, but I do think that someone like Herman Cain or Clarence THomas remembers the really tough days..doesn't make them more 'real' but it sure does make the nasty years of segregation more 'real' t them than it might to a black man today.

net observer said...

i understand that much, z. but frankly, i don't see the relevance, esp. today.

one can say that about ANY black person over 60, most of whom, obviously, vote democrat. ergo, what?

to me, bob's point was empty. one can be the most salient voice on the civil rights mvt and know nothing about x, y or z. cain and thomas certainly don't have anywhere near the "black" experience of john lewis or joe lowery. but i can't imagine anyone here giving lewis and lowery more credit as "real black men".

Kid said...

Just a thought: Why is there a MLK day but no JFK day?

Z said...

Kid; what a good question.
What a very good question.

I wondered that Mr. Obama and his family attended church today at the ZION CHURCH in celebration of MLK; I wonder what church he went to on President's day........?

net observer said...

Interesting. I just realized that posting via cell phone sometimes doesn't work.

At any rate...

Z, I understand what you're saying. I just don't understand the relevance. Of course, Thomas and Cain probably experienced more Old South racism than Obama. We could say that about any black person over 60 (who, fwiw, overwhelmingly vote Democrat).

We could further state that individuals like John Lewis and Joe Lowery have more first-hand insight about the days of segregation than Thomas or Cain. But does that make any of those guys "blacker", or even "more legit", than the other guy?

If I had to guess, Bob's definition of "black" is probably the same as his definition of "liberal" and "conservative": i.e., whatever he wants it to be.

Kid, the reason there's an MLK day and not a JFK day is the same reason there's a Columbus day and not a JFK day: At some point, somebody had the political clout to make a MLK/Columbus day happen.

Z said...

net, the "political clout" or did anybody dare say 'no'? Not that I don't think he SHOULD have a day after himself. In and of himself, he did a lot but not more than some other Black activists, but somebody's got to stand for strength and a voice against racism and I guess MLK does now.
I don't think I'll get over PRESIDENT's DAY lumping together Lincoln, Washington and whoever else the heck had his own day till somebody with "political clout" sought to lessen all their value.

There's a black girl at the school where I teach...her name is Kennedy, her FIRST name; I just love that.

Kid said...

Thanks Z, I wasn't sure what to say in response, but now with your comment....

MLK should have a day.

JFK should have a day because he was assassinated by the communists/Russia.

Lincoln should have a day for the turmoil he put the country through to 'free the slaves' from the democrats.

They should all have a day so as to not ever be forgotten.

Beyond that, obama should have a day but it should be a happy hour type event where we all get together and laugh like Hyenas because he thinks he is in the top 4 of presidents. The markets would stay open and all the public unions would still have to go to work..

net observer said...

When you are able to literally freeze potential dissent, that's clout. At least, one form of it.

I seem to recall some time ago Michael Steele having to nimbly back off something he said about Rush Limbaugh. I don't think Steele said anything particularly offensive. I think it was all about Rush's clout among conservatives.

You can't denounce Limbaugh if you care a lot about your standing among conservatives. Juut like, if you're a liberal, you can't p!ss on OWS. Or if you're black, you can't p!ss on MLK. Or if you're a right-wing GOP Christian, for the time being, you can't p!ss on Tim Tebow.

Clout is the term I use to describe this phenomenon. Sometimes you cultivate it. Sometimes it's thrust upon you.

But if I had my way, there would be NO publicly sanctioned holidays. If you wanna take off and memorialize something or someone, more power to you. But YOU pay for it =)

Bob said...

net, let's try this again. I am throwing the BS flag on your following, unsupported and totally unfounded statement that you seem to have made up all by yourself. Else, you would have quoted the person who was foolish to have made it.

"let's get real, z. in retrospect, herman cain was nothing BUT a conservative race card."

OK. What does this mean? Is there a vast right-wing conspiracy out there that came up with substantial sums of money, and then convinced Cain to run as a "race card". Or, maybe it was the demon Democrats who put him up to it.

The man's campaign was real, and his ambitions are well known. Yes, he is a black man who was bad-mouthing another black man. As far as his "blackness" goes, I said nothing more than what my personal observations of actual events taught me. I grew up in the same South as Herman Cain, except I was white with all sorts of advantages.

Neither Barack Obama, or you, were around then.

Z said...

Bob, your piece about living in Memphis and being there on the day Dr King was shot is excellent.......really does capture a feeling like we're right there with you.
thanks for's direct and very haunting.
would it not have been for that awful day.........

net observer said...

Fair enough, Bob. Perhaps some of this was a failure to communicate.

I'm not saying Cain's candidacy was a right-wing or any other kind of conspiracy. I'm not crazy enough to believe anything like that. But I DO think Cain's ethnicity had a lot to do with the conservative/GOP excitement around him. Can I prove that beyond the shadow of a doubt? Of course not. I'm not a mind-reader. If I'm wrong, then heck, I stand corrected.

But what did I SEE? I saw Herman Cain, a very smart man (impressive educational background), with lots of ambition (former CEO of a Pillsbury subsidiary), who was very familiar with media (former NRA chairman and talk radio host), with zero experience in public office (and proud of it), who excited throngs of conservative GOP-ers across America (and still does today); who, for whatever reason, didn't bother to ameliorate his most obvious deficiencies -- e.g., foreign policy (the most important function of the presidency).

How likely is the above scenario if Cain is white? How likely is the above scenario if OBAMA is white?

Let's temporarily think of the GOP presidential race as a competition and the candidates as "playing cards". Let's say Ron Paul is the "disruptive libertarian" card. Fair enough? Let's call Romney the "business-oriented, experienced presidential candidate" card. Fair enough? Let's call Newt Gingrich the "experienced politician and scholar" card. Fair enough?

So, kind of card is Herman Cain?

Bob said...

Net quite correctly observes, "Fair enough, Bob. Perhaps some of this was a failure to communicate."

Damn! I hate it when I have to agree with somebody. Thanks for you patience.

net observer said...

Handshake, Bob =)

Z said... think Obama's supporters were turned on to his business acumen and foreign diplomacy experience? :-)

I think the kind of 'card' Cain played was:

New to the public

Loves this country

Christian values

Business Experience

Good education

Real American story

a Black guy with an unusual sensibility


Obvious desire and excitement

net observer said...

" think Obama's supporters were turned on to his business acumen and foreign diplomacy experience? :-)"

Since he had none, no.

I think most Obama supporters thought he sounded sane and logical, and they thought that was refreshing.

And let me hastily add: I didn't say that *I* felt that way. I said that I thought most Obama supporters felt that way.

"a Black guy with an unusual sensibility"

So even YOU think his blackness had SOMETHING to do with it.

Well, between you and Bob (who ultimately appeared to agree with me), I'm gonna stick with my labeling of Cain as a conservative race card =)