Wednesday, January 4, 2012

Joining Together......

Blogger KP said this at my blog post below yesterday : "THINGS ARE SCREWED UP! Now, how do the left and right find the compassion to work together to resolve our almost overwhelming structural issues?"
Do you think it's possible that the Right and Left can work together in the future?   How do they do it?  What has to happen?   Got any ideas?
What do you think is the thing most holding each party back?   

What do you think?

z (thanks, KP!)

65 comments:

Dave Miller said...

A lot less dogmatism, a lot more grace, and a decision by people on both sides to act in a way that truly respects the other person, even when you disagree with them.

A decision by one side or the other to essentially be a good neighbor, regardless of what the other side has done, is doing, or will do.

beamish said...

Every Republican who decides to try to work with the other side will immediately get called a RINO or worse.

Every Democrat who decides to try to work with the other side will face a primary challenge from his own party, or worse.

In my opinion, the less they work together, the better. Let one side or the other eat their failures.

Elmers Brother said...

The left needs to pack their bags and move to Cuba. According to duhkkky its a regular Communist Utopia down there.

Silverfiddle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Silverfiddle said...

No. They won't find a way. The only way to still the roiled waters is to turn those extra-constitutional functions back to the states and the people.

There is so much arguing and government "doesn't work" because it was not designed to work this way.

This is government gathering up all of our liberties and our money, then having a multi-million bureaucrat army dole it all back out based on what 536 people think.

No wonder we're angry...

Bob said...

I don't vote for representatives to go to Washington to get along with the crowd. I vote for people who will advocate my principles, and will resist the idiocies of the other party.

For example, the Democrats have yet to pass a budget within three years, and somehow the Republicans are expected to go along with this irresponsible conduct. Get real.

Bipartisan acts require responsible representatives, and the Democrats have demonstrated nothing approaching responsible governing.

Where was all this bipartisan stuff when Obamacare was rammed down our throats? The disastrous results will obviously result in more expensive and lower quality healthcare for the nation. Who in their right minds would participate in bipartisan negotiations to achieve those execrable goals?

I would like to point out that the Republcans worked with the Democrats on the payroll tax holiday. This is the first bipartisan attack on Social Security in the program's history. Has anyone wondered why this is going on? The Republicans got duped on this one.

I think Republicans are too trusting of the Democrats. The current bunch of Democrats is arrogant and has shown a willingness to deceive. You cannot work with dishonest people like the Democrats.

Work together? I don't think so. Defeat the jerks.

Always On Watch said...

Do you think it's possible that the Right and Left can work together in the future?

Have they ever done so? Only when both sides perceive a crisis. Rare, very rare.

Limited government advocates and big government advocates managed to come together at the Constitutional Convention. But the battle was bitter!

Limited government got barely-adequate limited encoded in our Constitution. The statists have been hammering away at those limitations ever since.

Right now, the Left doesn't perceive a crisis -- except that the Left's agenda isn't being instituted rapidly enough.

Recommended reading HERE at Frankenstein Government.

Always On Watch said...

Dave,
Are you singing kumbaya?

Thersites said...

Watching the Fusion Conservatives pretend not to want to horn RINO's in the name of "electability" is soooo hillarious! They trash real and popular Tea Party conservatives like Michelle Bachmann and Ron Paul, and push their big government solutions people like Gingrich and Santorum in the hope of throwing the election over to their REAL favorite RINO candidate, Mitt Romney. Romney's well on the way to winning the "fusion" RINO Party nomination! Woo-hoo!

Thersites said...

Rick Santorum is like his RINO brothers, Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich. He never met a big government solution that he wouldn't vote FOR.

Thersites said...

When EVERYTHING gets rendered unto Caesar w/o limit, what's left? An hour a week inside a building of your choice? Is that the only "freedom" we're to be left with?

Fredd said...

Blogger KP is confused about how these 'screwed up things' will get resolved.

They will get resolved when and only when one philosphy defeats the other at the ballot box. There is no middle ground in free market capitalism versus Marxism/Socialism.

The compromises between the two for the last 75 years have given us what KP sees as 'screwed up things.'

Much like compromising with the Taliban:

Taliban Mahmoud: 'We must behead all infidels. It is Allah's wish.'

Western Bob: 'Now Mahmoud, I'm not sure we can accomodate ALL infidels getting beheaded. How about we meet half way, and only behead HALF of all infidels?'

Taliban Mahmoud: 'I'll take your compromise back to the mullahs, but I can't guarantee anhything, Bob. But it's good that we can talk about this issue, Bob. See how we can work together?'

Western Bob: 'Great, Mahmoud, we'll sit down again later and go over what the mullahs come up with.'

In summary, there is no compromise with socialism. None, KP. See what doing so has gotten us to date?

Dave Miller said...

AOW, not kumbaya at all...

Just a thought that if people lived the biblical values a majority on Sunday during the week, maybe they could get along.

If people choose not to make that decision, then the answer to Z's question is of course no.

Fredd said...

AOW and Dave Miller:

Of course if we were all perfect people, and lived in a perfect utopian world, we could certainly find a perfect way to make things perfect, and once everybody (and leave nobody out) is perfectly happy, we can all sing Kumbaya (in perfect harmony, of course), and things will work out perfectly.

But since nothing above is ever going to happen, and never has happened in the history of history, then Dave Miller has arried at the correct conclusion: the answer to Z's question is unquestionably, inarguably and emphatically 'no.'

And I'm not saying this just to be disagreeable, it's right in front of everybody's nose.

beamish said...

Wow, the impending announcement of Comrade Bachmann's withdrawal from the race really has the Naderites upset.

Rita said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
-FJ said...

The OWS Sponsoring Conservative Fusionists are excited at the prospect of re-fuzing the dissappointed Bachmann followers to Team Romney. My money says that they go 80/20 to Ron Paul and Rick Santorum, Ron Paul being the only "small 'g' government" conservative left in the race.

-FJ said...

The re-fuzing of Rick Perry's supporters will likely break in a similar fashion.

-FJ said...

Fusion Conservatism. Carding the wool and making sure that no real conservative get the nomination since the Abe Lincoln days.

We've got to "card the nominees" for Lincoln.... er-r-r-r, Romney.

The fusionist motto: "We have to Break the Union in order to Save the Union!" After all, the raw materials for our government sponsored northern industrial and banking monopolies have to come from SOMEWHERE!

-FJ said...

...and Rita. Don't let the self-labelled "fusionists" lecture you about the "Danger's of Ron Paul". They're only interest lies in seeing that the nomination go to their "annointed big government" candidates, Mitt Romney in 2012, Jon Huntsman in 2016.

-FJ said...

The fusionist credo, "Why say something good about your own candidate, whne you can paint his opponent as a devil!"

Anonymous said...

You always ask good questions. Why does anyone become a democrat? I think it is because these people agree with (or are too dense to understand) the underlying principles of progressivism, which is a globalist/statist ideology. They honestly think that the federal government has an obligation to protect us from ourselves. They embody everything that is wrong with our failed education system, and yet they keep funding it with other people’s money.

Why does anyone become a republican? I think it is because these people admire our founding principles, believe in rugged individualism, believe in American exceptionalism, and value the capacity to think more than they do a framed certificate gathering dust on the wall. They reject socialism, reject the notion that Americans require a big brother, and view progressives as a “clear and present danger” to the security of American culture. Conservative Americans see themselves as the protectors of our inalienable rights, and they view progressives as public enemy number one.

If both sides maintain their respective ideology, I do not see how it is possible for Republicans to work with Marxists. Among those who think that conservatives are incapable of compromise, I should point out that compromise is how we have elected people who advocate left wing social engineering. The left is no solution: it is the problem. If anything, I think our differences grow wider … and, I think, dangerously so.

Sam

-FJ said...

Newt Gingrich got "Romney-boated"! What a laugh! Conservative "fusionism" in action.

Sarah Palin got Romney-boated. Then Michelle Bachmann. Then Rick Perry. Then Hermann Cain. THEN Newt. Now it's Rick Santorum's turn. Way to go, fusionists!

beamish said...

...and I meant the far-left Naderite sock puppets are really upset.

Nine posts, FJ?

Really?

Rita said...

FJ: Let me assure you NO ONE lectures me about anything. I heard Ron Paul's comment about Iran and I am perfectly capable of making up my own mind.

And hate to break it to you but the TEA Party/Bachmann vote will go 99% to Santorum.

Z said...

SAM, thanks, and you said "If both sides maintain their respective ideology, I do not see how it is possible for Republicans to work with Marxists. Among those who think that conservatives are incapable of compromise, I should point out that compromise is how we have elected people who advocate left wing social engineering. The left is no solution: it is the problem. If anything, I think our differences grow wider … and, I think, dangerously so."

I think you're right.
"compromise" is what's got us in this terrible shape in the first place. I always wonder why the Republicans are fearful of standing up for what they and the constitution believe. I suppose they put their job first and are afraid of mainstream media disdain.?

Rita, that DOES say a lot!
Ron Paul confounds me...he's got some good ideas but he's warped on so many other things, naive, and even scary. Appeasement is bad enough, ignoring is even worse and he does seem to want to ignore anything that happens off our shores, apparently not understanding how that could affect US.

Ducky, your evangelical harangues aren't welcome here and you know it. But, you keep typing and taking up your time if it appeals to you.
Gad, what's SO important about killing babies that makes you hate Christians so much?

Z said...

HAVE ANY OF YOU CONSIDERED THE SUGGESTION THAT IT'S WASHINGTON'S LIVING SITUATION THAT MADE THINGS GO SO SOUR? I THINK IT'S AN INTRIGUING HYPOTHESIS AND I BELIEVE THERE'S MUCH TRUTH TO IT.

WHEN SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN COULDN'T AFFORD TO TRAVEL BACK/FORTH FROM THEIR HOME STATES TO WASHINGTON, THEY MOVED THEIR FAMILIES TO D.C....
PEOPLE MET IN NON-POLITICAL SURROUNDINGS.....THEIR CHILDREN WENT TO SCHOOL TOGETHER, THEIR WIVES KNEW EACH OTHER. I BELIEVE THERE WAS A TONE IN WHICH PEOPLE WEREN'T UNCIVIL TO EACH OTHER BECAUSE OF THESE THINGS.

TODAY, IT'S DOG EAT DOG, NOBODY SEEMS TO KNOW EACH OTHER AND THERE ISN'T A CIVILITY WE HAD THEN...MAYBE IT'S AN OVER SIMPLIFICATION, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK?

beamish said...

Z,

We have the internet and Skype now. Senators and Congressmen don't need to go to Washington anymore than you and I have to be in the same room to comment on each other's blogs.

Wouldn't you like to know your Senator or Congressman is literally just down the street and you can knock on their doors?

queenish said...

If you don't have something noice to say about a candidate, you should all come to MY blog and learn the essentials of fusion conservatism.

Just remember. It's NEVER too early (OR TOO LATE) to GO NEGATIVE!

beamish said...

Z,

Are you going to tolerate FJ's left-wing sock puppet show polluting your blog?

Ducky's here said...

Did I get censored or did the message fail to post.

Odd if a reply to an article on the necessity of communication gets wiped.

Rita said...

Oh my Lord. Here we go again. Another cat fight on Z's blog.

Interesting that the post is titled, "Joining Together" and we get a couple of guys who want to carry their fight over here.

I'm OUT of this discussion.

Hope the next topic isn't hijacked by these two again.

-FJ said...

And hate to break it to you but the TEA Party/Bachmann vote will go 99% to Santorum.

lol! And what do you think that the fusion conservatives will do to him when it's Santorum's turn in the barrel?

Ron Paul has been in the conservative-RINO fusionist barrel since 2007.

beamish said...

No threat of that, Rita.

FJ makes and ass of himself quite well on his on.

Resume party.

-FJ said...

...and always remember, Rita, that there's nothing to "join together" unless something is first "broken apart".

Fusion conservatism. Creating RINO candidates since Corioalnus 1st donned humble weeds and exposed himself to the plebs in the Roman forum.

-FJ said...

erratum - 'Coriolanus' above

-FJ said...

I can't wait until Ron Paul returns to Rome with his Volscians. You can bet we'll get a different result than Shakespeare scribbled.

Z said...

Beamish "Wouldn't you like to know your Senator or Congressman is literally just down the street and you can knock on their doors?"

No, I'd like to know his family got together with a liberal political family on Sunday over hot dogs and beer and the two politicians got to understand each other a little more...and actually maybe come to some level of respect for each other.

Ducky...when you can be civil and not so smug about the ruination of America by Christians, maybe we can talk. You were definitely deleted.
Not 'odd' at all; the whole point is joining together, and that doesn't happen with the level of smugness and elitism you display.

Rita, I'll be going to MODERATION soon....FJ and Beamish won't be doing this long again here every time Paul or Romney gets mentioned, believe me. I'm not going to stop blogging what I want to avoid this ridiculous crap from them, you can depend on that.

Lisa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lisa said...

Maybe our last resort is to have a Republican/Democrat ticket from now on.

How about a Romney /Hillary ticket. Now there's a match made in Massachusetts.
Or if we could get the democrats like Wasserman/Schultz and their left wing media to stop making it their goal to tell people how republicans are racist bigots and want to kill them and starve their children maybe we may have a chance to move forward instead of taking 2 steps backwards like the progrssive dems want to.

Z what do you think of any of the candidates picking Huntsman as a VP? Maybe it will give the left less ammo,but then again they just can't help themselves somtimes.

beamish said...

Z,

I'm not the one here wholesale smearing Reaganites (aka "fusion conservatives") with crude sock puppets and feces-encrusted attempts at homoerotic parody.

Your far-left Naderite "friend" FJ is understandably upset that Comrade Bachmann barely scored six points over me and you in Iowa (and we weren't even running) but he need not be adamant about requiring a second flush and a spray of Lysol before going away.

If loopy leftists like Alan Colmes truly deserve a voice at your blog, ask FJ about his comments making fun of Rick Santorum's dead baby Gabriel.

Go ahead.

Z said...

Lisa, "Or if we could get the democrats like Wasserman/Schultz and their left wing media to stop making it their goal to tell people how republicans are racist bigots and want to kill them and starve their children maybe we may have a chance to move forward instead of taking 2 steps backwards like the progrssive dems want to."
(she's a lefty...I think she'd prefer Debbie WasserPERSON Schultz :-)

In any case...yes, as I said above, if Americans knew what Republicans were about, they might start voting for our country.


Beamish...just IGNORE HIM. Am I supposed to delete every single comment from you both now because you're hateful toward Republicans and FJ's become someone I don't recognize anymore?
I saw your link with FJ's ridicule of the Santorum family and I was VERY VERY surprised about that.
This isn't ideology and opinion now from you two, it's a terrible grudge being fought here and I'm tired of it.

net observer said...

Dave Miller speaks for me in general. More thought, more civility, less emotion.

And specifically, I borrow this rather simple suggestion from Thomas Sowell:

Can't we all agree that huge, well-financed companies and individuals don't need or deserve to be subsidized by the government? (e.g., farm subsidies).

Then again, maybe the left and the right ARE working together -- for the wrong reasons. How else could a situation like THAT last this long?

Speedy G said...

I saw your link with FJ's ridicule of the Santorum family and I was VERY VERY surprised about that.

I guess it pays to whine about every argument you lose, eh, Beamish? :)

Speedy G said...

ps - Reagan was the only Conservative to ever BEAT the Fusion Conservative Smear Factory. You need to take more credit for your RINO horning abilities, Beamish. You've certained "horned" every true conservative in the race already.

beamish said...

Z,

Oh but it is "ideology." Namely right-wing conservative-libertarian fusionism from me vs. FJ's far-left Naderite pedantics.

If anyone has a grudge, its your karma chameleon poo-flinging government employee monkey boy FJ.

You've known what your getting from me for what, nearly eight years now? I don't suffer fools gladly, and I have no patience at all for poseurs. Have I ever changed a beat or missed a step? You know where I stand and what I stand for.

Can you say the same for FJ's wardrobe of opportunistic sock puppets?

I don't "hate" Republicans, though there are certainly some left-wing troglodytes and dopplegangers we could do without - the perennial racist terror-enabling Euro-socialist Ron Paul, the welfare hoarding pork gobbler Michelle Bachmann, the TARP bailout rodeo clown Rick Perry, the Rainbow PUSH affirmative action Pokemon wrangler Herman Cain... to name a few.

I make a case for what I have to say, and attempt to argue my points succinctly and precisely.

FJ, well, he'll try to browbeat you with sock puppetry and smears.

Sometimes even you have joined in on that smearing, calling me (and anyone else seeking entitlement reform and privatization) "grandma killers."

I shouldn't have to fend off such intellectual dishonesty, but we both know that'a all the left has.

No, you shouldn't delete every post where FJ is trying to bait an argument on his terms.

You should just recognize that I'm going to smack around leftists no matter what avatar they're using.

Speedy G said...

...and what I've said about Rick Santorum once on beamish's Stalking Horse Blog is NOTHING compared to the charges Team Beamish has repeatedly leveled against Ron Paul, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry, Hermann Cain and the Tea Party. Nothing.

You can't "join hands" with a well poisoner. And poison Republican wells is the only contribution that beamish makes to your blog.

beamish said...

I guess it pays to whine about every argument you lose, eh, Beamish? :)

Yeah, the skeery ol' estabwishment Repubwicans made you crap yourself, huh?

Must've been all that good money Mitt Romney's PAC wasted on Sharon Angle and Christine O'Donnell.

Go get a clue, Naderite.

beamish said...

You can't "join hands" with a well poisoner. And poison Republican wells is the only contribution that beamish makes to your blog.

After the election is over, I'll disclose how I made Rick Perry look like an ass in nationally televised debates from right chere in me comfy chair and bunny slippers.

It's magic. Woooo ooooo...

Speedy G said...

Naderites like me kept Al Gore out of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave in 2000, beamish. Just remember that.

KP said...

Thanks for the link, Z!

beamish said...

Naderites like me kept Al Gore out of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave in 2000, beamish. Just remember that.

My hero! ::snort::

In Maryland? Wow, hubris and stupidity in the same can.

How... convenient.

KP said...

Fredd: “Blogger KP is confused about how these 'screwed up things' will get resolved.”

I don't thinkl so Fredd. I think you have taken what I said and the point I was making, out of context. You may have missed my point. Let me explain.

When I said “THINGS ARE SCREWED UP! Now, how do the left and right find the compassion to work together to resolve our almost overwhelming structural issues?” I was referring to structural issues that are badly damaging our country that reasonable people might agree, are not broken down along party lines; issues that would benefit our country, not a political ideology.

As I posted earlier, I was “referring to structural issues that both parties refuse to address. Like: whoever raises the most money wins an election 94% of the time. Or money blatantly shaping political policy toward Wall Street; or Too Big To Fail; and failed trade agreements; policy with China; tax code reform.”

In fact, both parties deserve the middle finger from us because neither party is seeking solutions even though solutions would benefit all Americans. It would benefit the Democrat and Republican parties as well as Congress because Americans would begin to trust them again.

I am not confused about what is at stake and I understand the reason for your histrionics. Recall, I also posted that “the way Pelosi and Reid acted in passing The Affordable Care Act was akin to Devil Anse Hatfield and Uncle Jim Vance at the start of the feud between the Hatfields and the McCoys. Probably one of the most distasteful things I have seen in American politics in the last thirty years.”

That feud ended when 13 people got life in prison and one was put to death. I understand the high tension between parties -- but we are not going that route yet! Perhaps a couple folks like Corzine will go to jail.

My overarching message was that America’s largest and most dangerous issues should be addressed by both parties. They refuse!

Note what is missing from my point: Solar energy, small tax breaks, unemployment benefit extensions, card check, PBS funding, racism, super committees, voter ID, talks on debt reform that are a farce; reductions in spending that only slightly decrease the rate of explosive expansion of debt.

These relatively small issues are not going to destroy this country unless we keep using them as rocks to stone one another to death.

Leticia said...

Z, not to sound like a pessimist but I don't think we will ever see these two parties come into agreement. There are too many difference of opinion.

But, there is always a slight chance that I could be wrong. You never know.

Rita said...

Hey Z: I have images of myself here as Marty Crane while the two sesquipedalian boys swirl around my recliner.

I'll go slug back a couple of brewskies and come back later.

Z said...

Ya, Rita...people are tired of the beamish/FJ (Speedy, Thersites, etc etc) stuff and are leaving geeeZ...

I guess I'm supposed to thank Beamish for enlightening my readers because he knows better than everyone else about everything, but I'm hoping this happens to his blog, not mine.

I don't enjoy being on moderation, but I will stay on if I must.

Z said...

By the way, I adore Marty and his sons.......I'd never compare this to that, ROZ :-)

Rita said...

I know you do Z. Do you remember when the boys took Marty to his favorite restaurant where they proceeded to make fun of the waitresses?

His speech to them both before he left them sitting there was classic.

Bob said...

Dave said:"Just a thought that if people lived the biblical values a majority on Sunday during the week, maybe they could get along."

Just a thought, here, Dave. Doesn't this come under the heading of, "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's..."? I don't see a contradiction in Christian values vs a political life. Where am I going wrong?

KP said...

Hey Bob, I like your blog. Nice work!

Anonymous said...

A DIAGNOSIS of WHAT AILS US:

Politics has been reduced to guerilla warfare between hagiographers and character assassins.

There is no truth in it anywhere, and no interest whatsoever in FINDING truth. Instead it's all about WINNING through a furious exchange of insults, selected facts, vicious lies, half-truths and and preposterous assertions.

Winning WHAT?

Whoever "wins" a contest of this sort could only wind up being King of the Dunghill, because that is precisely what the current political process has turned this country into -- a heap of stinking garbage.

Sorry, Dave, but when you are absolutely certain the opposition lives to serve "The Devil," compromise becomes impossible. Both sides believe the other to be satanic.

Usually "The Devil" is in "the details," but in this case he resides -- and THRIVES -- in The POLARITY.

~ FreeThinke

PS: Of all the many evils that have infected American politics Character Assassination is the one I abhor most. Even so it is a time-honored practice indulged in by Thomas Jefferson and John Adams both when they competed for the presidency -- and it was rife among most of the founders and their supporters much of the time. Politics never has been subject to any recognized Rules of Etiquette. - FT

Bob said...

KP said: " I like your blog. Nice work!"

Thanks, KP. I went back to using WordPress software because I like it so much better than blogger.com's package. That said, I have fun messing with web software and stuff that I cannot resist changing things up.

I appreciate your spot-on comments, too.

Dave Miller said...

Bob, forgive me, but I do not understand how the give unto Ceasar passage relates to Paul's instruction on how to live life.

FT, I agree hardily... the Devil is indeed in the polarity, and we feed it/him daily in politics.

It would make a nice updated entry into CS Lewis' Screwtape Letters...

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Dave.

We may not agree on much politically, but we certainly do in the way we ought to discuss our differences.

Cheers!

~ FreeThinke

PS: Th verification word is ENTICAT -- so close to "etiquette" it's almost spooky, isn't it? ;-) - FT

MK said...

The left don't need the right to do what they want, which is to destroy America as we know it.

The right need the left to compromise to preserve America, but i fear the left will never compromise.