Saturday, January 7, 2012

Mrs. Obama........tough? (who knew?!)

Let's see if the mainstream media gets as critical about Mrs. Obama after hearing THIS information (from the Washington Post) as they did with Mrs. Nancy Reagan.
Maybe not, because the White House denies it.  And they must be right, right? :-)

z

86 comments:

Brooke said...

From the MSM there will be not a peep.

Always On Watch said...

Interesting article.

I don't know how true the related story is, but this "feels" accurate:

The health care situation epitomized everything she disliked about politics, everything she had been arguing about with her husband for going on two decades: her skepticism about whether true change could be accomplished through the legislative process, the way serious ideas devolved into craven horse trading, the way you could risk and give so much and end up with nothing.”

Maybe Michelle's pushing her husband right now partially explains his recent boldness is going ahead without Congress.

Silverfiddle said...

The left will turn it into some kind of positive, "strong woman" and all that (after denigrating every smart and strong woman on the right).

Ducky's here said...

Sounds something like another Kitty Kelly tell all.

Michelle must be one tough cookie if she can jam with a leg breaker like Rahm.

Impertinent said...

Two things strike me here:

"Her repeated missteps on White House protocol, such as taking expensive trips abroad and wearing pricey clothing"

Her craving for Bling bling proves she's a fraud and more.

"the sense of purpose she shared with her husband, the force of her worldview, her readiness to do what was unpopular and pay political costs.”

Even if that means transforming America, against all the peoples wishes and desires ( except for the moocher class ) into socialist drones and dependents.
Furthering the class / racial divide that he started since the Cambridge incident.

Z said...

Brooke, I'm sure that's true.

AOW, it just might be that boldness that's making him do this against the will of the people.

Silverfiddle...exactly!

Ducky, that's what I thought. They say messing with Rahm's tough, but I guess when the person messing with him is First Lady, she wins?!

Imp, It almost looks like O's missteps might be more attributed to her, doesn't it.

Bob said...

I have a lot of respect for black women, especially their ability to strike out at those they don't like. Several of my classmates are black women.

I have learned that young, black women have an aggressive nature that allows them to take on all the problems attendant with being single mothers, black, and trying to get an education. It's not an easy world for them, although they manage to get grants that pay all their school expenses.

My experience is that if you piss-off a black woman, you now have an opponent with more perseverence than a dog chasing a Porterhouse steak. Not only do you get called a racist, a misogynist, and a f!@!@$*^ fool, but they can threaten bodily harm, too.

I have learned my lesson. Don't mess with Michelle. It's not worth it.

FairWitness said...

I don't see any difference between the outlook & views of Barack and Michelle Obama. They have the same aspirations, the same world view, the same agenda. I am not surprised by this at all.

Like all the elites, they feel entitled to the finest things in life; i.e., the finest suites in ritzy hotels, haute couture clothing, special treatment for everything. They are exempt from the limitations they impose on the rest of us - all while taxing our production to pay for their lavishness. It's who they BOTH are.

Pris said...

I always thought Michelle Obama was tough. I can see the chip on her shoulder from my living room!

She has an expression on her face of, "don't mess with me"! At least that's my take.

SKPR said...

"all the problems attendant with being single mothers..."

There's a simple cure for that isn't there?

Tie your legs together with rope if you have to. Just use common sense and know that you're going to get dumped as soon as you untie them. Haven't the lessons ever been learned...or is that some "badge" of honor with children having children?

Z said...

SKPR...I just saw your blog and wanted you to know it should give us all inspiration.
We all look at housework, vacuuming, etc., as a misery and, as sick and uncaring as you felt while going through treatment, you understandably couldn't have cared less about dirt!. ...and then you took joy at noticing crumbs on the floor and caring enough and having the energy enough to do something about it as you felt more energy.
We take things for granted...thanks for inspiring and may you do better and better throughout the new year.
Thanks for coming by.

Z said...

I forgot to mention I agree with your comment. It actually does seem to be a badge of honor to bring children into the world who don't stand much of a chance unless they can get gov't help. very scary, this loss of morality. But, of course, there's a segment of our population now, a big one, who'd say "what's immoral?" :-)

MK said...

Maybe after the election.

Hope you have been well Z.

Z said...

MK, WELCOME BACK FROM AFRICA! I'm envious your being in Melbourne..I know you LIVE there, but WHAT a beautiful city for visitors! And what fabulous aboriginal art :-)

Mr. AOW said...

I don't know what to think of her. But I don't have a high opinion of her husband.

net observer said...

the author's background is very much a part of the so-called liberal media. she's a new york times employee and so's her hubby.

ergo, her credibility, as far as that goes, is in tact. i.e., "if one of your "own" is saying x, then there's likely some truth in x".

but does it deserve more than a flash in the pan coverage? i don't think so. but since the author is NOT a right-wing flame thrower, it'll probably get more than that.

it doesn't matter. the economy's recovering. and moves like paring the military budget is a late but clear signal to obama's base, i.e., "hang with me this november".

he's headed for 4 more yrs.

Z said...

net, I think he is too. You pleased?

I am quite sure we won't recognize the framing fathers' intents after another four; we will be like Europe-Lite and more in debt than we can ever escape from. There can be absolutely no doubt about that except that even liberal pundits are suggesting the Right might take the Senate, too.

Are you pleased about another four years of Obama, Mr. Conservative? ;-)

Most experts on the military are highly upset about the paring down...as has happened in the past; after every war, there's a paring down (nothing quite as ridiculously drastic as CLinton's, but..) and then we're not ready for the next one. To suggest we're safer now is like admitting to insanity.

Z said...

by the way, net....it's sad a rightwinger wouldn't be believed if he/she wrote an expose on Mrs. Obama, or the other way around, isn't it.

I felt that something was up when the hospital in which she worked with Axelrod, making about $250K a year, didn't have to hire anybody to take her place when she left. There's something dishonest there...plus how her brother nearly got fired from a coaching job; but didn't. :-)
That cronyism bugs me on either side of the political aisle.
She's a tough cookie.

Remember what crap Nancy Reagan got? Oh, my gosh. I doubt if this story will gain that much momentum; I can't imagine you think differently.

Pris said...

"it doesn't matter. the economy's recovering. and moves like paring the military budget is a late but clear signal to obama's base, i.e., "hang with me this november"."

Right Net, Obama's playing politics with our military, our defenses. Nothing is sacrosanct with Obama, except, it's politics all the time, 24/7 since he was elected.

Remember Clinton talking about the "peace dividend" after the Berlin wall came down and he was elected? Then came 9-11 when Bush was President and he had to once again build up our defenses, including our intelligence capability.

We're still in danger from the terrorists, Iran and the Islamic jihad, but hey, the election comes first, right? So, we send the world a signal through huge defense cuts we're weakening our military!

Not our security, or our military strength matters to the left or Obama. Heck no, that's the left's favorite whipping boy over and over again.

Impertinent said...

"There's something dishonest there...plus how her brother nearly got fired from a coaching job; but didn't. :-)"


Well...as long as we're on the dishonest topic. How's about the Mudder-in-law whos squatting in the WH ? Rose Garden too? Or Don Omabas various felonious relatives ( an aunt an uncle ) who've lived here ILLEGALLY and have defied DEPORTATION edicts?

It's no wonder that the criminal in charge ( Don Omaba ) has granted de facto AMNESTY to every illegal POS that has been ordered deported...can now stay and not have to go back to Juarez....? So they can claim going back to their various shitholes is a ...get this..."A HARDSHIP". La Raza is who he's appealing to....the CBC is who he's appealing to....the moochers and GD ILLEGALS is who he's appealing to. And net is right.....he needs these frauds, ILLEGALS and criminals to get enough illegal votes to stay in office?

We're worse off than we could ever imagine...when a "prez" can play racial divisions to stay on public welfare in the WH. Can't say as I blame Don Obama....he has exactly no marketable skills...other than being a racist - race baiter ( along with Holder ) in the continuing, infuriating tradition of his own brand of Jethro Crow.

Impertinent said...

Sorry Net...but the Constitution and the rule of LAW...MUST TRUMP, racism and skin color and Tribalist inclinations and illegality.

Obama...must go. If we are to continue to be a nation of laws...and not of men like Obama. He MUST go. He's a threat to our borders, out national security, our economy, our foreign relations and our stature as a world power.

It will take 20 years to repair the damage this mutt...has done to America.

And I hope Herman Cain is unleashed to speak the truth about the fraud Don Obama.

Impertinent said...

A little factoid....the the poorest 5% of any American citizen...is better off in America than 2/3rds of the rest of the world.

Yep...that gubbamint cheese sure be good.

Impertinent said...

Ya know....I thought I was angry when Bill Clinton..was using the Oval Office to get laid.

I now realize that Clinto...at least had weaknesses that I might...might understand. Even if he had disgraced the office by being a low life, astro turk pickup truck redneck whore.

Don Obama...is a man...who has diminished our country at the most dangerous time in our history. He has given up on us. He has BETRAYED US TO THE ISLAMIST SHIT that will...and they will....destroy us.

Take away the 2nd amendment...and we're all docile Jews waiting to be loaded into boxcars...waiting to be shot dead by Holders assassins.


Zeig Holder.....Zeig Obama.


Remember as Mr. Little has said....we're all NAZI's.

Kid said...

My personal opinion is that the obama's have no taste or class and both are grossly incompetent. michele is said to have 22 assistants and some are fired at random all the time. Probably through no fault of their own - but rather an emotional incompetent who flails about in an adolescent, all too transparent misdirection - self protection strategy. imo but of course.

Anyway, my point is ANYTHING is possible with tasteless, classless incompetents, and most especially with the ones under the constant spotlight.

Kid said...

Further, and to clarify, imo - the obamas are in a class with lindsey lohan, britney spears, paris hilton, and the kardashian sisters.

Out of the bunch, I'd say paris hilton actually has more on the ball than the whole lot of them put toeether, and I have zero respect for ms hilton.

Impertinent said...

I'm waiting for the knock on my door. I'm waiting for the new Obama / Holder edict that one of my constitutional rights has been rescinded. That I'm now...a criminal.

For speaking out...and for demanding that I be "allowed" to defend myself.

It's OK...laugh...laugh your asses off.

It can't happen here. Ask those Germans in 1938 if they thought the same thing.

Impertinent said...

" the obamas are in a class with lindsey lohan..."


Wow...that was perceptive and profound. The difference is..if it hasn't already escaped you...is Lohan can't deny your constitutional rights. That Lohan's escapades can be bought for a small price to any porn site.

Make light of that....Obama has the power of the pen and the arrogance of making "out of session" appointments of commies, socialists, racists and every manner of doting scumbags traitors you've never imagined. Go ahead.....Laugh.

Kid said...

Thanks Impertinet. Incredible isn't it? who has been given such power?

Impertinent said...

"Incredible isn't it? who has been given such power?...


Tell ya what Kid....not since the bastard King George...have we faced such a threat to our country. And I have to ask...seriously...how many of us are really ready to pick up arms ( like they did in 1776 ) and defend the dream that was,....and is now....our constitution.

Don Obama....needs to go. By whatever means it takes for alll God fearing Americans...all those who believe in a Christian God....to defeat the Islamic whore...puppet....Don Obama.

Kid said...

Impertinent, I seriously doubt the majority of today's kids understand that government is dictated to be by the people for the people.

I think many accept the king obama concept and have no idea where these words came from or what they mean - "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. . . whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive to these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government."

Z said...

Imp, I have no problem with a mother-in-law helping with the children...the parents both have a lot to do, but I agree about the other relatives.'
Imagine US having illegal relatives on the dole and not helping them? impossible.

Kid, I'm not sure that the Obamas rank with Paris Hilton's lack of ANY talent at ALL..........but I don't respect the Obamas.
I'd respect them if they truly have a good marriage and respect each other and were doing good for this country; but I believe they're both doing NOTHING but create more and more class warfare and getting us farther and farther from the intention of the framers (and us) and everything else that's brought immigrants here to revel in being AMERICAN. All that's going...as are the illegals, by the way.
THEY know something we don't know, huh?

KP said...

<< Don Obama....needs to go. By whatever means it takes for alll God fearing Americans...all those who believe in a Christian God....to defeat the Islamic whore...puppet....Don Obama. >>

I can’t imagine who you are trying to sway. If it is someone who already agrees with you, you are singing to the choir. Any moderate or independant would raise eyebrows. You risk supporting Obama's election for another fours years.

Z said...

Ya, I think that's a little extreme to say in mainstream America...

Who do you guys think won the debate?
I only watched 10 min but will go watch TV now to see any high (or low) lights :-)

KP said...

SKPR: you go girl! My family (daughter) know your fight all too well. Keep On Truckin' ...

KP said...

Z: I am going to watch the second half now. Good debate. I like the samller field.

Kid said...

Z, here are my honest thoughts before they get lost in the fog. And yes, I agree, hilton is a zero talent person. I’d be more interested in watching a cable show about a homeless person who never takes baths than her or the kardashians. So you certainly have a point there. :-)

I believe both were brought up in a very racist environment. So much so that it would be impossible for them to have absorbed any pro-American information what-so-ever even if they did hear some, which I doubt given the condition of our education system and the obama's obvious desire to gravitate to such people as Rev "G-D America" Wright.

barry has never worked an honest day in his life. Not even a job at McDonalds as far as anyone knows. No one claims to have been taught by him at Harvard in his supposed constitutional law professorship, nor even testifies as to his presence at Harvard. he’s been given everything and therefore thinks that how things are supposed to work.
he was placed at Harvard in a non-official affirmative action type way and slid through by design with probably the equivalent of a C+.
he can’t speak in complete sentences without the aid of a teleprompter which he never reads his own words from but rather poor speeches written by 20-something year old kids.

michele, at Princeton (How’d she get there?) did her thesis on a very racist subject revolving around the mighty whitey. Has this deal to plant a garden and does it under the sun in all black disco clothes?

michelle gardening Has no accomplishments to her name as 1st lady in 3 years even with 22 assistants, (Laura Bush had 1 I believe)

It’s all fake(my main point). It’s all The Emperor’s New Clothes with these two. I do believe they remain racist, and very anti-American. I believe they are trying to hurt America and simultaneously cash in in a big way.
And they’ve been successful at that.

I wrote this because it's just astounding that so many people watch this train wreck of a White House occupation and see Nothing Wrong With It. Which certainly does Not include you.

Incredible... It's had to verbalize actually.

Kid said...

Having some link post trouble, Here's a good one.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/white-house-garden-is-not-exactly-shovel-ready/

KP said...

Kid: you have some great posts and insight, but I don't understand this one: "

I believe both were brought up in a very racist environment. So much so that it would be impossible for them to have absorbed any pro-American information what-so-ever"

White mom, missing black dad, raised by white grandparents who are part of the greatest generation in Kansas and then Hawaii?! Holy Moly.

Kid said...

KP, Thank you very much for the compliment.

Well, I have heard that barak obama had this to say about his grandparents - "They were typical whiteys"

Do you know about it or maybe don't think it's true? I mean, I wouldn't bet my life on it - I wasn't there, but it seems to fit.

KP said...

Kid: I don't know about it. But I do know about the issue. I have grown up with half black and and half friends. I have grown up with half Mexican half white friends. I had a sister who married a black man in the 70s. I have nieces and nephews who are half black and half white and nthe ir kids who are mix white, black and Mexican.

My point, Obama's comments about grandparents being typical whities is humorous. It is almost endearing. They were typical whities -- and that is a great thing. Why would anyone consider that a bad thing?

We have to stop being so reactionary. Lets be clear, the browning of America is real. With it will come new humor. If somebody finds that type of humor offensive or disconcerting I understand. Sooner or later I hope they out grow it.

I don't agree with most of Obama's decisions on health care and the economy. But I am here to tell you he is a sincere guy, love his family and deeply loved his mom and maternal grandparents. If anything, he struggles with the negative relationships with his gather's side of the family.

What I have taken from my experience is that mixed race children are most bothered by the stereotype they get from the minority race. However, faster than you can get old, this is changing. We are experiencing growing pains. They will be over by 2050.

This has little to do with current politics - despite what the far left and the far right expose.

Z said...

Kid, I agree with you.
Obama was raised with such confusion; mother pretty whacko; father not around...raised in an Islamic country during early, impressionable years..Frank Marshall, Communist, is biggest mentor, grandparents whose white blood he resented...
it's a very tough upbringing for an American public to have for a president who's supposed to put us first.

KP...you might want to read Obama's books; his disdain for the white blood is palpable. I've always wondered at the fact that the media didn't make more of that.

IMagine if a Republican said anything like Obama did in his books?
Or if a Rep. said he didn't know Bill Ayers when he had his first campaign appearance in his house and their wives worked together?
Astonishing.

How do you Obama's 'sincere'...about his family? Maybe. But, we can't know that..particularly with his upbringing.
His daughters look like very nice little girls, and that's a good thing. I certainly wish them the best.
I just wish their dad would stop hurting our country.

Kid said...

Z, very well stated.

net observer said...

"am i pleased about 4 more obama years?"

pleased? no. distressed? no. neutral? yes. and frankly, i'm neutral on all the gop candidates, too. it wouldn't bother me if one of them won. i just don't want a total sweep by either party.

the only person who has seriously scared me in recent years was sarah palin and that was solely b/c i thought she was basically stupid.

to this day, for example, i stand against tarp, and people on all sides think i'm nuts for holding that very right-wing position.

z, i guess i'm just not a hysteria kind of guy. i didn't fear the end of our economic system if tarp didn't pass, and i don't fear the end of western civilization if obama serves 4 more years.

yes, i am an economic conservative, but that's not the only factor i consider when i vote. i am an atheist and a social liberal in the entertainment biz, too, but i happen to like santorum. is that paradoxical? not to me. again, there are other factors to consider.

net observer said...

also, yes pris, i think obama is playing politics with the statement about paring the military. which is one reason i don't expect it to actually happen. still, a very weird move.

and yes, z, it IS very sad to know that i can't trust the words of a partisan flame-thrower. why is that? b/c they have a history of lying, prevarication, half-truth, sophistry, smear tactics and an unwilligness to state facts within context.

when they build a history in the other direction, they will regain my trust. but not before then.

btw, i saw rita leave under dubious circumstances. sad to see that. really i am.

if you're out there, rita, come back, boo.

i'm real. z's real. pris is real. imp is real. if they're not, what an amazing, years-long con job...and one with no ultimate benefit at that =)

Z said...

net "if you're out there, rita, come back, boo.
i'm real. z's real. pris is real. imp is real. if they're not, what an amazing, years-long con job...and one with no ultimate benefit at that =)"

It is sad, isn't it...she got sick of reading the acrimony between FJ and Beamish and not knowing who's who and took offense at something another commenter said. I don't get it, but she has every right to and has always been kind and a terrific commenter here at geeeZ, so this is a big loss to us...as is the loss of FrogBurger and a few others.

net, I agree about flame throwers; when liberals say things I admire, usually meaning they're fair, I usually sit up and listen next time they discuss something because I think they've got a brain that can be open enough to all sides. Mostly, I'm always disappointed on giving them a second 'chance', but.. !! SOMETIMES Kirsten Powers is like that, sometimes Juan Williams is like that...and a few others, but not many.

If you think we're not in trouble with another 4 years of Obama's heavy borrowing, depleting the military to the point that military experts are saying "it's a 17 on a fear scale of 1 to 10", and SO many other things America will suffer from, then I simply will never understand your politics.
But, I respect you and maybe, someday, I'll understand you :-)

Kid said...

Net, I absolutely guarantee you the military is going to get cut to the bone.

Clinton did it. It's the democrat agenda, or whoever is pulling the strings.

Also check this out. This guy is a 20 year FA-18 Naval Aviator and a TOPGUN instructor. (Not one of the friends I talk about below) But you can figure he is up to speed. Excellent blog generally speaking also.

I have friends who were in during those years and they testified that of the entire Army, they couldn't put 24 helicopters in the air at the same time. Seriously.

They will cut top brass, boots, training, spare parts, equipment, R&D, etc with this supposed dream of fighting wars with drones and technology. It never works. You need people in place making nanosecond decisions.

Now if you want to tell anyone who attacks us they'll get nuked, I'll go that route, but that's not going to happen either.

Kid said...

Net, PS - Not to mention all the good people who will leave from the demoralization this causes.

net observer said...

i don't fully understand my politics either, z lol

frankly, there are even things i believe in earnestly but don't completely understand. case in point, "private ownership plus individual liberty equals prosperity". i believe that. but i can't tell you, scientifically, 100%, why that formula works more than others, or what other factors need to be in place for it to work.

since i don't know 100%, it's okay to think more about it, read more about it, ask about it, consider debate, etc. i like to think of this as a sign of my evolving wisdom. maybe it's something else =)

i have old recordings in early 2007 of fox saturday business news. these guys didn't have a clue what was around the corner. should i believe them now when they say obama is destroying the nation just b/c they're on tv and they lean right? i think there's a point where we have to question everything and everyone. we're only human.

my politics? i think we all should be forced to explain our positions in full. that way, we keep ourselves and each other in check.

net observer said...

kid, you have my respect in a big way. so if you're correct about where obama is headed with the military, i can hardly defend him. having said that, obama, based on his first term, doesn't strike me a a dove or a flower child. why didn't he decimate the military years ago if that's the case?

Z said...

net "why didn't he decimate the military years ago if that's the case?"

SOME things the Republicans are doing are working, and one of them is trying to avoid this....they've had so many senate hearings in the last few weeks on military cutting, but apparently it's not being listened to.
Kid's right...short of nukes, we are pretty much gutted.
Apparently, the military likes to be prepared at all times for 2 wars at one time, from what I heard, and we're not even really prepared for one right now.
Kid's right also about troops leaving the military; they started to under Clinton but any more cutting will make them feel even WORSE than when Obama's admin. considered reading the Mirandas to terrorists.
And remember when they were told that we couldn't shoot at mosques because the muslims didn't like that and our kids were being killed from inside of mosques? Or when they had to give notice to blocks of houses before they searched for the bad guys? All of that is demoralizing enough, but.......this gutting is tough.

And Obama uses the reasoning that we're 'meaner and leaner' and drones work better (We've seen a little trouble with drones, of course) and I think some of that is true...I do think it's best not to use our kids when we don't have to if drones can do the work.......but, mostly, Kid's right again that we'll NEVER have the guts to save millions by nuking again, like we did in Japan, and so it'll be that America's lost; or nuked; or just plain taken over by Chinese manpower. When, who knows? But gutting like we're gutting is STUPID.


"private ownership plus individual liberty equals prosperity". i believe that. but i can't tell you, scientifically, 100%, why that formula works more than others, or what other factors need to be in place for it to work."

I think it works because it keeps the natural human inclination, the human spirit in mind....we want to own something, we want to be free, then we prosper.
It's entitlements, welfare, etc., which have KILLED the American soul....in the ruse of taking care of the poor pitiful unwashed who can't support themselves.

I think it's always good to ask and debate and learn if we're not 100% sure. I'm not sure who doesn't.

SOmetimes I think you feel I and most of my bloggers are so ideological we can't think outside conservatism, or we haven't read or learned or examined other ideologies, and I hate to say it but Conservatism usually comes out on top even after MUCH reading and learning, maybe for the very reasons I cite above....human nature, the love of liberty,...?

Maybe it's the same with faith; the more I see, the more I read, the more I see brilliant believers, the less my doubt is...it seems antithetical, the more I read and see, to not believe, and it takes a whole lot more faith, too.
but, that's a whole other story and I only use it as a comparison, not to rile you as an atheist. Which is absolutely none of my business.

Z said...

Net, by the way, I believe it was Peter Schieff who was on FOX quite a lot, on the BUsiness shows, saying we were in for BIG trouble with the housing market, etc etc...and he tried to get Charles Johnson and all the other guys on those shows to WAKE UP but they didn't see it coming.

BY the way, for the record, neither did CNN or anybody else, really.

Schieff nailed it.

Z said...

http://gollygeeez.blogspot.com/2010/03/who-warned-about-financial-collapse.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw
(can't find my video, and brother, did I look for it...mine was on FOX, this is on CNBC)
He's an excellent conservative economist/thinker

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Peter+Schieff+FOX&oq=Peter+Schieff+FOX&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=6156l6504l0l9001l4l4l0l2l0l1l378l477l1.3-1l2l0


There's a whole bunch of his appearances on FOX...he's really worth listening to. Have alcohol ready :-) He's scary in his accuracy and his predictions !!!!

Kid said...

Net, Thank you again.

I'd have to say, they had to wait for Iraq to wind down. The plans for that were finalized between the Bush Admin and Iraq in October 2008, before the election btw. It went just as prescribed. Obama had zero effect one way of the other.
Now that they have the Afghanistan withdrawl plan, it now fits the dialogue. Is all.

Clinton did it based on Reagan ending the cold war. But Russia and the USA was never going to be about ground troops anyway if it came to it.

Btw, as far as TV folks on FOX business, CNBC, whatever - They are not there to inform. They are there to do their time in a dog and pony show. Once in a while someone will be given time to give an honest complete opinion on something but by and large, it's all about ratings, staying on the air and making money. More often than not though, a person is given a couple minutes and told to entertain, engage the audience, incite a dialogue.

The internet is the only place I've found information that proves itself true consistently.

As far as the housing bubble, the folks at Minyanville saw this coming and posted about it often starting in 2005. It finally blew Oct, 2007. Todd Harrison (CEO) mainly but a few others as well. If you want and you find the place interesting, I'll give you some more names, because they do have a lot of misc people on board now, just trying to create content. They are consistently ahead of the curve.

btw - I just posted an investment idea, which was buying the home builder ETF based on some things Harrison said recently.

Kid said...

Z, Imagine if we'd have used Nuke(s) in the Korean war. China didn't have them and Russia wasn't involved really.

No Kim Jong Il. No Kim Jong Un. No hundreds of thousands of people staving in N Korea for the last 60 years and God know how many more decades of this nonsense. So, we spared a hundred thousand civilians so millions could suffer and starve for decade upon decade with no end in sight. And if they don't have food they sure as hell don't have anything else. Heath Care, indoor plumbing, electricity. N Korea is Dark in any nighttime satellite view. I'll stop here.

net observer said...

z, i'm very familiar with peter schiff. i'm a fan from way back. but as those videos probably show, schiff was viewed by the other panelists as a fool to be dismissed out of hand.

i'm certain one of the reasons the rest of those guys kept pushing "the solid economy" b.s. was b/c their boy bush was in office. had it been gore, they would have been less optimistic. in hindsight, that is now very obvious to me. it's one of dozens of reasons why my respect for advocacy news networks, like fox and msnbc, is limited at best, even though i watch them, and even though they have opposing voices on occasion. by and large, they do not encourage serious, deep, authentic questioning of their own.

kid is right. "ratings over information" is how those guys roll.

z, the reason i adore the blogger/commenter format is b/c full-fledged dialogue is not just encouraged, it's darn near unavoidable. too bad we can't force limbaugh to answer legit questions. or coulter, or lawrence o'donnell, etc. imagine if we could?

i think, not just bloggers, but too many "politicos" assume the best of their side and the worst of the other side. and there's brilliance and depth of thought, as well as stupidity and a lack integrity on ALL sides.

Impertinent said...

KID

"No Kim Jong Il. No Kim Jong Un. No hundreds of thousands of people staving in N Korea for the last 60 years and God know how many more decades of this nonsense."

Nope...don't stop...say it. More white guilt is all it was. Generations of those poor slopes starving ( to say nothing of the loss of 38,000 US soldiers once again trying to "nation build" and hoping to stop the ChiComs. ) We knew damn well what Mao was then. We knew damn well that the alliance with the USSR would be a disaster for us. And we knew damn well that we should have launched ICBM's after WW2. We'd have a very different planet now...a safer and saner planet.

Our foreign policy has more blunders, more asinine policies, more waste, more fraud, more corruption, more grandiose - useless propeller heads than any company would be allowed.

Join the US government...great pay, excellent benefits, more holidays and perks than one can ever imagine...PLUS...plus...no accountability or responsibility for totally f**king the American people for over 65 years.

Sickening ....what a waste all this power...all this incredible power to change the world...has been trivialized and wasted.

Kid said...

Ipertinent. Thanks, I agree with you.

Yet, here we are in dialogue with 'respected' voices in society trying to get them to understand that it's not a good idea to have someone in the White House, in charge of the free world, who hasn't even held a job in his life.

Fall of Rome I guess.

Z said...

net, I finally got what bugs me.
Why is it that you always veer toward the left?

I have a feeling Coulter and Limbaugh's answers might be a little more acceptable to most AMericans than O'Donnell (a recently avowed Socialist)...

Ya, there's much more disdain from you for FOX than CNN, for example; and as I"ve said 298374239874 times, show me ONE HOUR with more conservatives on CNN than FOX has on in an hour. NEVER happen.

You're much more prone to go easy on the left and that's what puzzles me.'

Impertinent said...

"You're much more prone to go easy on the left and that's what puzzles me."

This particular issue is hard for me Z. I like the guy. He's sensible, articulate...extremely intelligent...but...an enigma non the less. Of all the commenters who are Black and come here to post their views and opinions....Net is one of the best.

And he's honest too....damnit. So..it's hard to rag on him for his...ummmm...inconsistencies?

Net reminds me of one of the guys I went through the AF with. My roomie...my right hand...my bud and partner...for 4 years. "Johnny Rivers" I'll call him. From Boston...BOSTON, MA...for chris sakes.

Never ruffled...never upset....the coolest "Mf'r" I'd ever met. I never knew many Black men before I got him as a roomie. We went everywhere together. He kept me safe and out of trouble. He saved me from many ..many faux pas over the years....he covered my ass. But... it's cause the guy....never sweat. NEVER.

In Germany...the women loved him. He had the slickest lines of any man I've ever heard. ) And because of that...we always had a great time!! )

When we flew together...he was the consummate pro...he couldn't fly worth a shit...he could dance, he could talk ( but he couldn't land an airplane to save his or my ass LMAO ). His speciality was like Obama's...the man could talk. The man could figure out a flight plan and give me a course from a map....in a nano second.

And...the man looked cooler than Tom Cruise when he suited up...dropped that dark sun visor over his face...he was....no One to be messed with. He was definitely...a bad ass and demanded a salute from the ground crew.

He was my Best man at my wedding...he stood in for my brother Marine who was tied up in combat on his second tour.

"Johnny" and I went on to an airline together. I lied about his pilot skills...and he backed mine up...LOL

Net....to me...is that "brother"...who might be confused again about...this time...his true "flight plan" and destination.

And "Johnny"...he's a retired Captain from a major carrier...one of the few who had claim to those wings and title.

While I...became a glorified bus driver.

Z said...

Imp, I'm not putting net down; I consider him a friend and have for years.

I just finally realized what irks me in almost every comment he leaves ...
there's always the negative toward FOX or Conservatives, and it's puzzling to me, that's all.

I'm very glad he's here commenting; I love that.

And I think I'd have liked your friend in Germany, too!!
I guess he did finally learn to LAND if he went on to flying commercial planes, right? I hope so, anyway! :-)

net observer said...

PART 1

I have no choice but to take your comments as flattering, Z and Imp. Makes me hesitate on this next rant. Talk about bad timing =)

And I will admit to total confusion on Imp's thoughts about my "final destination" =) At any rate...

Z, when I told my two closest friends about silverfiddle's comments about me (which were much-appreciated, of course), both of them, individually, burst into uncontrollable laughter at the characterization of me as "liberal", "Democrat", "Obama-supporter". (For the record, Mr. Steyn, to his credit for sure, made it clear that he only used the labels to facilitate his report)

In fact, my friends thought those labels were so "not me", they more or less questioned if I had been toying with you guys. (i.e., pretending to be something I wasn't)

For what it's worth, I would describe these guys as "moderates", who, if it were 1995, would be considered "moderate black conservatives".

Z, did you know that, besides Obama, I haven't voted for a Democrat since my senior year in college back in '88? And the only reason I voted for Obama was because I refused to go along with the Sarah Palin insanity, which spooked the living stew out of me?

Indeed, my friends view me as a total right-winger. Why? Because they know my beliefs about free markets are almost cult-like. They know that, at best, I am uneasy with most gov't safety net programs. They know I DESPISE affirmative action, farm subsidies, TARP, etc.

I could go on and on: I can't STAND the NAACP (of today)! I can't stand what left-leaning philosophy did to Black America, particularly in the 70s and 80s and 90s.

But somehow, a guy like me, in today's world of conservatives, is a liberal. Fascinating. But it's just a word, right? =)

Yes, I have MAJOR problems with FoxNews and the putative modern-day conservative movement -- AND THEY DESERVE THE CRITICISM! Too much of what they do these days lacks seriousness, profundity and intelligence. And let me quickly and hastily clarify that I do NOT think most conservatives lack seriousness or intelligence; I just think TOO MANY OF THEM don't (esp. in the media).

Back in the 80s and 90s, I was very much a part of the black left, and eventually, they got too crazy for me as well. Frankly, oftentimes, they embarrassed me as a black man. They just kept pushing stupid ideas without any real counters from within the group. They were, more or less, unofficially, anointing people like Louis Farrakhan as "the preferred black leaders", if you will. PhD's were spreading notions about genocide against black boys. It was a crazy time.

net observer said...

PART 2

And today, unfortunately, today's putative conservative movement oftentimes embarrases me. After all, I am still someone with a very right-leaning personal economic philosophy. And my sincere apologies in advance if I step on anybody's toes, but I'm like most Americans: I view this this birther madness as madness. I cringe When a poll says that 45% of the GOP thinks Obama isn't a real citizen and another 20% "aren't sure". And I thought "Sarah Palin, VP" was a scary-@ss prospect.

When Glen Beck said "I think Obama has a deep hatred for white people" with absolutely no freakin' proof to support his statement, I didn't hear anyone white conservatives on TV say "That's freakin' stupid!"

Which means that, basically, many of the same people who were quick to call the discovery of Herman Cain's hardcore imperfections, "racism", said nothing about Beck. I think that's a shame.

When Obama gave what I thought was a uniquely honest and bold speech on American race relations (hell, even Charles "Bell Curve" Murray praised it), what did Ann Coulter, the ultimate conservative media darling, have to say about it?
"He threw his grandma under the bus."

D@mn. Really? That's as deep as that fool could get? Sad. There must be a lotta money in the partisan fruitcake industry.

Contrary to what appears to popular belief, one can be conservative (or conservative in many ways) and still get where I'm coming from. Thank, God (if I can say that, Z =)) for the addition of 'Kid' to this blog, who is obviously very politically conservative, but who also openly acknowledges the merits of these criticisms, which, frankly, aren't exactly controversial (or shouldn't be).

I have to wonder "How many 'Kids' are there out there? And why aren't THEY the norm in the movement?"

Kid and I disagreed today. And you know what? Because HE said these things about Obama and the military, I'm gonna look into them. When an obviously intellectually honest and sober individual Kid speaks passionately about a subject, I pay attention.

Which finally brings me to my actual point (forgive my rants). If you notice, my complaints about today's conservatism were mostly centered around the movement's "A-list" celebrities; like Beck, like Coulter, like FoxNews at its worse (Eric Bolling comes to mind).

If THOSE guys had a reputation for being "Kid-like", I wouldn't be so quick to question their words, or their actions, or their news sources. But unfortunately, we ALL know, based on their LONG-standing records, they are ANYTHING BUT "Kid-like". They are instead quite "Bolling-esque": Red meat and no depth.

Sad.

net observer said...

Lastly, Z, you make the task of demonstrating fairness on CNN on MSNBC difficult because your bar for "conservative" is so high. If Matalin doesn't count, if the Red State guy doesn't count, if Scarborough and SE Cupp don't count, then well, yeah, with those standards, I guess FoxNews is the most fair and balanced network. Obviously, I don't believe that.

The only true "balance" I ever see is on C-SPAN.

Z, I recognize liberalism at CNN and blatant unapologetic liberalism at MSNBC. I just find Fox more egregious because their bias is often delivered by very shallow people like Hannity, O'reilly, Palin, Gutfeld, etc..

Lawrence O at MSNBC is extremely left, but not necessarily shallow. I'd say the same about Maddow. Or Cooper on CNN.

Thoughtful partisans don't bother me as much as dumb or crazy ones.

net observer said...

Forgot "PART 2"

And today, unfortunately, today's putative conservative movement oftentimes embarrases me. After all, I am still someone with a very right-leaning personal economic philosophy. And my sincere apologies in advance if I step on anybody's toes, but I'm like most Americans: I view this this birther madness as madness. I cringe When a poll says that 45% of the GOP thinks Obama isn't a real citizen and another 20% "aren't sure". And I thought "Sarah Palin, VP" was a scary-@ss prospect.

When Glen Beck said "I think Obama has a deep hatred for white people" with absolutely no freakin' proof to support his statement, I didn't hear anyone white conservatives on TV say "That's freakin' stupid!"

Which means that, basically, many of the same people who were quick to call the discovery of Herman Cain's hardcore imperfections, "racism", said nothing about Beck. I think that's a shame.

When Obama gave what I thought was a uniquely honest and bold speech on American race relations (hell, even Charles "Bell Curve" Murray praised it), what did Ann Coulter, the ultimate conservative media darling, have to say about it?
"He threw his grandma under the bus."

D@mn. Really? That's as deep as that fool could get? Sad. There must be a lotta money in the partisan fruitcake industry.

Contrary to what appears to popular belief, one can be conservative (or conservative in many ways) and still get where I'm coming from. Thank, God (if I can say that, Z =)) for the addition of 'Kid' to this blog, who is obviously very politically conservative, but who also openly acknowledges the merits of these criticisms, which, frankly, aren't exactly controversial (or shouldn't be).

I have to wonder "How many 'Kids' are there out there? And why aren't THEY the norm in the movement?"

Kid and I disagreed today. And you know what? Because HE said these things about Obama and the military, I'm gonna look into them. When an obviously intellectually honest and sober individual Kid speaks passionately about a subject, I pay attention.

Which finally brings me to my actual point (forgive my rants). If you notice, my complaints about today's conservatism were mostly centered around the movement's "A-list" celebrities; like Beck, like Coulter, like FoxNews at its worse (Eric Bolling comes to mind).

If THOSE guys had a reputation for being "Kid-like", I wouldn't be so quick to question their words, or their actions, or their news sources. But unfortunately, we ALL know, based on their LONG-standing records, they are ANYTHING BUT "Kid-like". They are instead quite "Bolling-esque": Red meat and no depth.

Sad.

Z said...

"But somehow, a guy like me, in today's world of conservatives, is a liberal. Fascinating. But it's just a word, right? =)"

Whatever, net!

I must tell you that most every conservative I know (from doctors to housewives) is far better informed than most liberals I know, and I stick to my point that conservatives do read more from the left than the left does from the right. Heck, I've recommended Dennis Prager to many leftwing friends who've turned toward Conservatism because "who knew?" They were simply uninformed before.

Yes, Matalin was on CNN the other day! HURRAH! One of 2 conservatives on a panel of six after the debate. That's a step in the right direction.

The problem is that the people you mention at FOX are all personalities; editorialists.
Wolf Blitzer is not touted as an editorialist but he's as leftwing as they are right, with a palpable dislike for Israel (tho he is a Jew, I know) and disdain for anything Conservative. As Candy Crowley, Gloria Borger, Anderson Cooper, etc.

And, really? You find the people you listed worse than MADDOW? :-)
There's a fair, balanced hour of 'reporting,', huh?!! (giggling here, honestly..she's a crack up!)
They even have her on Meet the Press!!! And pretty much the only "conservative" they have on is David Brooks...a kind of Elizabeth Hasselbeck in a sea of libs! But, that's okay, because they got their token Con.:-)
I remember when Chris Matthews had a Republican on regularly during the Iran war....Pat Buchanan, who completely opposed the war. Now THAT takes some guts on Matthews' part, huh? (smile)

But FOX is remarkable to you in its bias......well, the leftwing media's done a good job maligning them.

net observer said...

Z, you can find people throughout the political spectrum who will call C-SPAN "fair an balanced". The ONLY people who will say that about Fox are right-wingers and Fox employees, and not even all of them.

I think that alone is sufficient proof that Fox is not "fair and balanced".

But if you would like additional proof, ask Roger Ailes, who admitted that Glenn Beck's firing/quitting was part of a larger move by FoxNews to become more fair and balanced.

Even Ailes himself recognizes Fox's right-wing bias! lol (or is he also a part of the liberal media conspiracy?)

Also, I said Maddow wasn't as shallow as Hannity et al. I stand by that.

I didn't say I liked her views; they often make cringe. Of course Maddow is a solid unapologetic leftist.

I respect her intellect. That's my point. Which is something I absolutely cannot say that about Fox's peanut gallery: Hannity, Bolling, O'reilly, Palin, etc., a bunch of robots with scripts.

If I sound inconsistent, consider this: Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are conservative icons, who sometimes make me cringe, too. But, I respect their intellect, and in a BIG way. One might say I view them as my heroes.

Lastly, Z, sometimes I wonder how do you physically consume so many different channels of news media? You seem to know about all of them.

I can't comment on Wolf Blitzer much because I don't have timie to watch but so much of him -- or anybody else. When I do see Wolf, he seems relatively okay to me. But hey, I'm a radical liberal decrat apologist =).

But if you think the difference between left news media and right news media is "the reporters" versus "editorials", what about that clown on Fox during the day (can't remember his name, dark hair, middle-aged typical white guy look) He ain't NOTHIN' like "fair and balanced" lol

Anyway, we're in for a memorable year.

Kid said...

Net, just for fun and fwiw....

I think the entire media is broken. Briefly(because I think I'm going to post on it soon), I think the media has made it practically very difficult if not impossible for normal people like all of us to communicate. They're poisoned all of the labels we generally have to use, such as left, right, liberal, conservative, evangelical, atheist, etc etc. Our brains are conditioned to respond in knee jerks now. I usually don't because I'm aware of the problem and I also only see 5 minutes a year of network news TV.

Anyway, in my opinion, "America" is sitting around in front of their tubes digesting <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfUB4Wv5ooI >The Slime</a> from their videos, which is presented by people who barely scraped through college (if that) with the least challenging of majors (a Communications, Language, or Journalism) degree.

They pad 2% news with 98% opinion and while they are on 24 hours, they often run out of time before their guest can get to the point that might actually reveal some reality.

We're being informed and propagandized by some of the dumbest bastards on the planet who have found themselves in 'professional' positions.

ie. Wolf "Can't the keep the birds away form the airports?" Blitzer and Alan "Can't they test the landing gear before they take off" Colmes.

Frankly, I'd love to see the stewardesses hop out, throw their arms up under the wings of a 500,000 pound 777 and lift that sucker up while the pilot exercises the landing gear. ;-)

Kid said...

Broken Link. This site doesn't like http in a link...

So, The Slime

Kid said...

Ok, still broken. Cut and paste I guess. Yes I know, the excitement has worn off now...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfUB4Wv5ooI

Kid said...

Sorry, if this ends up a double post, I don't see it but it came back in my email - weird, Anyway


Net, just for fun and fwiw....

I think the entire media is broken. Briefly(because I think I'm going to post on it soon), I think the media has made it practically very difficult if not impossible for normal people like all of us to communicate. They're poisoned all of the labels we generally have to use, such as left, right, liberal, conservative, evangelical, atheist, etc etc. Our brains are conditioned to respond in knee jerks now. I usually don't because I'm aware of the problem and I also only see 5 minutes a year of network news TV.

Anyway, in my opinion, "America" is sitting around in front of their tubes digesting <a href="www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfUB4Wv5ooI >The Slime</a> from their videos, which is presented by people who barely scraped through college (if that) with the least challenging of majors (a Communications, Language, or Journalism) degree.

They pad 2% news with 98% opinion and while they are on 24 hours, they often run out of time before their guest can get to the point that might actually reveal some reality.

We're being informed and propagandized by some of the dumbest bastards on the planet who have found themselves in 'professional' positions.

ie. Wolf "Can't the keep the birds away form the airports?" Blitzer and Alan "Can't they test the landing gear before they take off" Colmes.

Frankly, I'd love to see the stewardesses hop out, throw their arms up under the wings of a 500,000 pound 777 and lift that sucker up while the pilot exercises the landing gear. ;-)

net observer said...

"I also only see 5 minutes a year of network news TV."

Very, very interesting, Kid.

You know, several years ago, except for my total addiction to the college basketball tournament (March Madness), I basically never watched TV, and I'm in the media biz (lol)

And I honestly cannot say that today I am "more informed". That's not true at all.

Then again, I'm more informed about the issues that don't matter; like how certain celebrities, famous and infamous, look and sound. But as far as a hardcore understanding the fundamentals, if you will, as well as legit solutions?

I kinda have to separate CSPAN from the pack, but generally, I agree with you. The dissemination of information (i.e., news and education) equals entertainment for many of us.

I think the Web (blogs, social media, mobile, "a smaller world", etc) is having an impact, tho'.

Kid said...

Net, I have a more rational, sanitized, clean view from not watching. I'm not deprived of information. News gets to me, just not in the prescribed propaganda format (with the personalities, music, video and all the rest of it). I very much believe in the power to mass hypnotize.

I left out of my last comment that the biggest problem with presented news is the omitted information.

How many people know of the floods last year in Tennessee and that many more people died there than at New Orleans. ? I say very few.

The web, and sane people who speak there and provide testament that others exist who are not radical left or right or sideways - does help a lot but it has a long way to go and in my opinion won't be near enough.

net observer said...

Kid, it's quite clear that your means of gathering info is more legit than the "standard" "more conventional" methods.

I'm still curious. Have you always been this way? Did some event make you this way? Are there certain blogs or sites that you recommend?

And who do you blame ultimately? One could, ironically, blame part of the dumbing down of America on commercial news itself. "If it bleeds, it leads", "sex sells", "sensationalism".

Probably why I defend CSPAN, at least to a point. It's quite sterile compared to the other commercial TV options.

Kid said...

Part 1

Net, As you can imagine this is not a quick answer. I think some background is needed. I’ll try to condense it.

Background, I went to grade and high school in the 60’s. Outside of hard science and math, I learned that George Washington was our 1st President, had wooden teeth, chopped down a cherry tree and later admitted it, threw a dollar across the Potomac, and froze at Valley Forge. I now consider my grade and high school education as a corruption of my mind. I’ve had to purge most of what they fed me and relearn it. I’ve been trying to do that ever since.

I’ve always been an observer and student of life and the ‘human condition’. I hate misdirection and most of all misinformation which can also be Omitted information. I spent the better part of my prime years having a good time and working my butt off. I instinctively knew that politics was BS, and paid as little attention t it as possible. Around 1998, I started trading stocks, starting with the stock I received in trade from the company that bought the company that I was working for at the time who had given me a packet of (what I thought was going to be worthless) stock for free. I ended up with stock I could actually sell through an online broker so opened an account. It was fun. Las Vegas on my desktop !

That led me to stock message boards. Which led me to having on line conversations with all manner of people It became evident there was so much misinformation flying around on the interwebs, that the exercise for most people was akin to an argument one might have in Kindergarten. Frustrating, but the subjects were almost always politically charged. Clinton was on his way out and people were saying all sorts of things about him and his actions as well as general politics, and so I used search engines to research various topics, so that when I responded to someone, I wanted it to be more final than Nu UH! Yea Ah!, Nu Uh !

Kid said...

Part 2

I got interested then in politics and how much damage a democrat could actually do to the country, and I went out and Voted for the very first time in 2000. I didn’t vote For GW Bush, I voted Against al gore. Then I voted Against j kerry, Then I voted Against obama.

After I voted against al gore, and after 9-11 happened and I had just witnessed clinton not responding to attacks on our soil, WTC in 93 and USS Cole in 99? I was convinced that clinton’s inaction simply emboldened these vermin jackals and on the ride home on 11-Sep-2001, I was driving down the freeway literally screaming at GW Bush (Since I knew nothing about him) To “Do Your Job You Son of a Bitch!”

I was fired up. I didn’t know anything about islam, muslims, the middle east. Jumpin catfish, I had almost taken a job on the Saudi Pipeline in the 1970’s because I had a contact at Flour Construction who was doing the thing. Glad I didn’t, or not who knows.
But, life was serious now. people like clinton, gore and kerry were total screw-ups making all the wrong decisions and the republicans were about useless but at least were patriotic and had/have some traces of class. eg. Republicans will resign/quit when they get caught doing something wrong. Dems won’t – ala charlie rangel, and many others, they defiantly, say I’m not quitting! Sucka !

This led me to start researching every subject that popped it’s head up. My activity with stock trading put me square in the financial sites and blogs. The Street.com, Realmoney, Minyanville later on, etc. Those guys are always talking about problems and solutions since you have to or should know a lot about what’s going on in anything that affects the price of the market or a stock which is pretty much anything. Right there is the separation point that provides quite a bit of an answer to your question. I had an even stronger motivation to learn or try to find ‘the truth’.

As far as sites, I’d say most of the sites on my right sidebar listed under Great Reads, then Wikipedia, Government web sites, financial and investment sites. Wikipedia is pretty good I think. Google of course. I google stuff all the time when researching and try to focus on ‘official’ sites. Dot Gov, and that kind of thing when looking up statistical information, and websites in other countries such as BBC, Sydney Morning Herald, though some of these have seen better days. I can’t add much to that regards your question. Sometimes I wish I was in ignorant bliss, but it’s too late now damnit.

Who do I blame Ultimately ? The Communists.

Couple short Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pyLmz6eVMg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAMiNTC7HOM

There are many more videos on the entire interview of this defected KGB agent.

Kid said...

Part 3,

Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love.

Love is the best.

Partially from a F Zappa tune.

net observer said...

PART 1

Z, I don't mean to overstate it. Today, African-Americans are LIGHT YEARS beyond where we used to be in terms of resentment toward "America"/"The West"/etc. To be really honest, I think this conservation will have next to zero relevance after another generation.

I am amazed at how teens today -- black, white and all in between -- care so little about the so-called race issue. Which is why I find it so bizarre when I occasionally hear whites talk about how incredibly divided we are in the so-called Obama era.

I really don't get where they're coming from. In my opinion, racially, America is FAR more united today than EVER before. And the progress isn't slowing down. If anything, it's accelerating.

Z, I think the difference between your experiences with blacks and what you often hear me talking about is this: It's the difference between knowing INDIVIDUALS from a group, and knowing the group ITSELF.

Most of us know individuals who with all kinds of backgrounds -- Black, White, Jew, Arab, etc. But most of us don't know but so much about the various ethnic groups per se -- unless it's our own.

Our knowledge about the "other" groups is often based on what we've witnessed/experienced/read about/heard about/etc. Which, typically, isn't quite the same as actually being part of the group.

Individuals can range to and from every extreme. An individual can be the most jingoistic patriot or the most virulent anti-West terrorist; and possibly even both, within a mere 80-year life-span.

However, large categories of people, like ethnic groups or nations, aren't that flexible -- for better or worse.

I wanna be very careful about how I say this, Z. But my gut tells me that you know African-Americans as individuals considerably more than you know African-Americans as a group, which I think is true of a LOT of "non-African-Americans".

Case in point: Throughout my life, I've seen whites appear "shocked" or "put-off" or "perplexed" by certain events/situations that aren't the least bit "shocking" if you're black: "Jeremiah Wright. GD, America!", "The Million Man March", the polar reactions to the OJ Murder Trial, etc.

Even if you're a black person who generally agrees with the rank-and-file white opinion of those particular situations (like me), it's not that "shocking" or "perplexing" to see blacks on the whole reacting as such. It's just irritating =)

net observer said...

PART 2

Why? Because you honestly wish your "group" COULD "get over it". But over time, you begin to understand that your group's actions are very normal, IF, you consider all the circumstances.

When I was in my mid-20s, it was obvious to me that "getting over it" was the best plan of action for African-Americans. But eventually, I had to begrudgingly accept the fact that wasn't realistic.

Why? Because, for example, only 25 years prior, blacks weren't even free to vote in many parts of the South. I could hardly go to my parents, who were only in their 50s at the time, and say, "D@mn, what don't y'all get over this? What's so bad about America? What's so bad about white people?" They would simply dismiss me as young, naive and stupid -- and for good reason.

I think I told you once before, Z, that even though I'm only 46, my father's father died in 1992; he was 98. And HIS father was six years old when the Emancipation Proclamation happened. My point? It just wasn't that long ago when America was a VERY ugly society if you were black.

Getting back to the differences in perspectives: Z, when you're actually a part of "the group", you tend to know where the boundaries are, for lack of a better phrase. For example, on 9-11, if you were black, you never suspected a "Jeremiah Wright" or a "Louis Farrakhan" (who in fact knew Ghadafi) of being involved in with 9-11. Despite all their fiery, anti-West, anti-Euro, anti-American rhetoric, you just knew, generally, that these weren't "true revolutionaries".

It's very easy for someone like me to casually dismiss the words of a Farrakhan or a Wright. It's very easy for me to roll my eyes when I hear whites criticize Obama for having attended Wright's church. But I think that's because I'm black and I know it's really not a big deal

But I'm guessing that if you're white (and particularly, a white conservative, who tends to get defensive when you hear people spit on the more romantic images of "America"), a lot of that so-called black militant talk might sound potentially threatening.

I gotta cut this off at some point =) Anyway, much of this in my opinion isn't about who's right or wrong even though that may be the case ultimately. But I think a LOT of these conflicts are a very complex matter of perspectives.

net observer said...

Wow, this is confusing = )

Z, I think I just responded to one of your questions, but apparently, you didn't ask that question on this section of your blog.

I thought you asked why you didn't see the kind of animosity I talk about with African-Americans? Or something like that?

Anyway, my response is here. If you never asked me that, who ever did, the response is here.

And if nobody asked me that, I'm losing it lol

net observer said...

Kid, dear brethren, we may have crossed virtual paths back in '99. I'm afraid to mention my favorite stock chat rooms at the time. If it turns out that we in fact DO know each other, it might be a little TOO trippy lol

But anyway, yes, I got caught up in Internet stock mania, but wasn't as lucky. I was late to the game with not a lot to play with. More or less came out flat after about nine months of obsession.

I did okay for a while, and then came March/April of 2000. I'm sure you remember "NASDAQ 5000". Like most, I didn't wanna believe it was a bubble -- until I got "my fair share" =)

Those were some nutty times, huh?

Different from your story, I was far more political before I had any understanding of hardcore business or stocks. Heck, I couldn't even read a stock symbol until my mid-30s.

My politics were pretty much all based in "black conservatism". I was convinced, esp. at the time, that "my group's" progress was stunted by "our" traditional instincts: ethoncentrism, defensiveness against whites/conservatives/GOP-ers; reflexively accepting/defending unacceptable behavior from our youth b/c of "historical oppression", etc.

I'll never forget one day watching TV with my best friend who was similarly to me politically. It was something on the news; probably a typical black grievance story followed by "the community" demanding government to fix the problem.

My friend and I both looked at each other as if it to say, "D@mn, why do 'we' keep doing this?"

My friend took it to another level and said (and I will NEVER EVER forget this line):

"You know, it's like we think we're living under a different system. Every time something goes wrong, we run to the government."

I'm not even sure if we knew what the term "socialism" meant when he said that. But in retrospect, MAN, that story packs a punch!

Z said...

Kid, EXCELLENT point about the floods and people dying; you are SO right.
By the way, in my little American patriot class for preschoolers, I still teach George Washington and the cherry tree; I don't care if it's not true...the four years olds love it and their wide eyes tell me they've learned something about lying and telling the truth :-) I always start with "Some people say that......"
By the way, I've taught this group since September, only 20 minutes a week, and they've totally learned the Pledge of Allegiance; even their regular teachers are amazed. And we talk about each phrase so they're not just little monkeys repeating by rote. We learned JUSTICE yesterday; man, is THAT a hard concept for kids! They mentioned "time outs" quite a bit in there, which made me laugh. They are right; a 'time out' is justice for not having made their bed, for example!!

net "I'm still curious. Have you always been this way? Did some event make you this way? Are there certain blogs or sites that you recommend?"

He's HERE, at the BEST, why's he need to give recommendations??? (just kidding, had to get that in!!!)


net, I think your "we know Farrakhan and Wright are no big deal" simply is your opinion; It's not "KNOW"...it's "THINK"..you THINK it's no big deal, which I don't even understand, frankly. These guys influence a lot of people and the fact that their ideas might have influenced a sitting president is far, far FAR worse than telling kids Geo. Washington chopped down a cherry tree and that might not be true.

How could I know African Americans as a group? Of course I know them personally, my own friends.......
If you mean I can't well understand African Americans as a group, you're right, I guess.
I don't refer to Black Americans as African Americans because some aren't AFrican and it's divisive anyway, but I have been told to refer to them as whatever the Black American I'm talking to refers to them as. Made sense to me; respectful, though it irks me.

"living under a different system". FASCINATING.

net observer said...

"net, I think your "we know Farrakhan and Wright are no big deal" simply is your opinion; It's not "KNOW"...it's "THINK""

Z, I'm not sure how to respond if we're gonna make distinctions between "thinking" and "knowing". I suspect that I have a lot more experience with people who have been involved with, and even been a part of, the NOI; and based on my experience, they are not, really, something to fear.

Obviously I have a ton of issues with those guys. I can talk about those issues if you like.

But no, I don't "fear" Farrakhan/NOI any more than I do "American Renaissance"; and I don't fear Jeremiah Wright any more than I do the Tea Party.

I "fear" gang-bangers and Al Qeada and armed militias. Those other guys don't compare to them.

That's what I mean when I say more or less unequivocally that it's not a big deal.

But of course it's only my opinion. And of course, like anyone else, I could be wrong.

"you THINK it's no big deal, which I don't even understand, frankly."

=) Nor would I expect you to understand, Z. That's my point.

Dennis Prager and John McWhorter once had a conversation like this:

(paraphrased)

Prager: "What about Jeremiah Wright's, 'GD, America!'?"

McWhorter: "I hate to say this, Dennis, but I'm afraid this is a case of 'it's a black thing'."

And McWhorter was correct, Z. Sometimes, it IS "a black thing". Just like, sometimes, it's a "female" thing and men don't understand. Or sometimes it's a "guy" thing and women don't understand. Or an Hispanic thing and non-Hispanics don't understand.

Sometimes, it's a conservative thing and non-conservatives don't understand. Case in point: Z, I hate to bring it up again, but it scares the stew out to me to know that 45% of the GOP thinks Obama isn't a real citizen. That's DEFINITELY a case of "It's a conservative thing. You wouldn't understand."

"Far, FAR worse than telling kids Geo. Washington chopped down a cherry tree and that might not be true."

Well, yes and no. If "the cherry tree" were the only issue, then I agree; not big deal at all. But as we know, it went WAY beyond the cherry tree.

There was a LOT of serious b.s. taught throughout the American culture, Z -- inside AND outside of the schools. I would argue that it was basically political correctness in another direction.

I remember as a child during the 70s watching Looney Tunes reruns with extremely over-sized caricatures of black women being ridden by "Paul Revere" (i.e., "Black Beauty", that's the joke).

And frankly, look at darn near anything, sitcom/cartoon/whatever, those those days and observe how blacks were portrayed, and compare that to whites, and particularly white heroes, like the Founding Fathers.

If you didn't know any better, (and obviously if you're a nine-year-old kid, you don't), you would think that the Founding Fathers were all handsome, morally flawless dudes with perfect hygiene, great teeth, etc.; and that blacks were irrelevant at best.

If compare decades of THAT to Jeremiah Wright, I'm probably a tad more comfortable with the latter. I guess it's "a black thing" =)

Kid said...

Z, Thanks. Well, he may have chopped down the tree, I was saying that that is ALL I came away with. And that was before the Dept of Communist Education. I shudder to think what goes on in class now.

Kid said...

Net, We probably did cross virtual paths back in 99 then. Everyone was chasing the same 30-40 stocks...

I lost money, but as all successful traders say, the hardest part and the most I learned was when I lost the first million. Or something like that. And no, it was no where near a mil.

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