And, what did Oprah have to promise to get that scoop?..........$$$ for his foundation? $$$ for him because he may have to give the winnings back?He destroyed the dreams of his competitors in each and every race because he cheated.
Will he have any public future? So many in our culture seem to champion psychopaths and liars and love to take people like that under their wing in loving forgiveness, making themselves feel so wonderful for having done so. Is that what will happen with Armstrong?
He's harmed a great sport...he broke the hearts of so many in the world by lying and racing and winning because of the drugs. "You think I'd put DRUGS in my body after fighting CANCER?" Wow.
If he was a personal friend, how would you handle him?
Come to think of it, he even cheated me and Mr. Z; we walked up to the Champs Elysee and saw Armstrong ride by on the last laps ... I was so proud of this amazing American! It was thrilling.
Yes, he cheated me, too.
I'm over it on the personal level......on the world level...no.
z
34 comments:
Simply stated:"sings of the times"!
"He destroyed the dreams of his competitors in each and every race because he cheated."
You went right to the heart of it, Z. Bravo!
As JonBerg says, it's a sign of the times.
Lying, cheating drug user Barry Bonds is the so-called home run champion, but not in my book!
Hammerin' Hank did it the old-fashioned way, he earned it, and he will always be the Home Run King in my book.
Bonds, Mark McGwyer, Sammy Sosa and the rest of the drugged up cheaters can go to blazes.
I was a sports fanatic when I was a kid, but I have turned my children in the opposite direction. They could give a hoot about sports, and they put no human being upon a pedestal, as it should be.
Life is too short to spend in front of a tv screen cheering for your favorite corporate-sponsored group of steroid-using millionaires.
He didn't exactly destroy the dreams of his competitors.
If you follow cycling you know it was full of doping. The major riders were all juiced.
He's trying to rehabilitate himself to come back as a triathlete or such. I suspect as many people will want to watch him as watch Oprah's new network.
Z - I don't think Lance Armstrong will bonce back. He has gone too far witih his lying.
If I were a personal friend I would stand by him. But you are right when you say how proud you were of him when you and Mr.Z saw him. That's got to be so disappointing.
It's true that others have bounced back but he lied for so long and on such a wide scope. I say he's done.
When I think of Tiger Woods - at least he didn't try to get out of it. When he was caught he admitted it. And he hasn't exactly 'bounced' back, has he.
I, for one, am getting sick and tired of hearing about this. SF sums it up perfectly!
JB........sad, but true.
Silverfiddle...I put myself in the position of men who've trained so hard and then lost and now they find out the field wasn't fair, wasn't "apples and apples?" He stole from them. It's heart breaking.
Mr. Z felt like you and so many others do; it's ONLY athletes who come to their sport with their OWN body's talent, strength and training to win.....they should all be stripped of what they got; maybe that would show people?
Ducky...it was full of doping and some don't. Some work hard. Yes, it absolutely destroyed their dreams.
I didn't ask what he's trying to come back as; I asked if my readers think any comeback will work.
Since liberals started embracing alcoholics, druggies, unwed celeb mothers, etc, we live in a world where decency and honesty aren't even understood by many children let alone emulated.
True heroes are insulted for not being hip, for living lives of sacrifice or values. Heck, the left's even taken the term VALUES and questioned what VALUES are.
not a good thing.
Sue, for what he's done to SO many, I couldn't stand by him even if he was a friend. If he was contrite and tearful, truly repentant, maybe. I admire your loyalty if that's how you'd be.
JB, me, too. I'm a little sorry I wrote this last night because in the few minutes I've watched TV news this AM, they're all practically using my exact words so this post isn't very interesting or original!
I have to laugh;
Yahoo's home page has another poll. Today it's....
Will you watch Monday's inaugural ceremony?
* Yes, I watch it every time.
* No, I don't find it interesting.
Vote
FIND IT INTERESTING? If people aren't watching, who thinks it's because they're NOT INTERESTED?
How's about another choice of answer.."Obama's wrong for this country and I'd rather have my fingernails pulled out one by one than watch"?
I have cousins in NYC who're flying to Montreal for the weekend just to get away from it all. :-)
Maybe Obama should go on the Oprah show and confess his lies!
Oh please! Let's not turn Lance into the Richard Nixon of the Sports World --i.e. Everybody's Favorite Punching Bag.
Exhibitions of self-righteous contempt don't reflect well on those who utter them.
Ducky's assessment for once is bang on.
"If you follow cycling, you know it was full of doping. The major riders were all juiced."
That's right, so in a very real sense every participant was competing on a "level playing field." Lance was just better than all the others -- remarkably so. The French hated him, because he was not French -- and he consistently beat them at their own game. The other cyclists were insanely jealous of him and lusted in their hearts to bring him down at all costs.
"The evil that men do lives after them. The good is oft interred wit their bones."
How well our friend Will understood human nature!
I know one thing: There is no amount of "dope" that could possibly turn ME into a world champion in ANY sport -- and not YOU either.
The next thing you know the iconoclasts will go after People Who Eat Red Meat -- or Liver -- or too man carbohydrates.
He rode a BICYCLE for a living! He didn't ride it one iota better than I can...MUCH faster, but not better.
Frankly, I think most athletes in most sports use "performance enhancing" chemicals of one kind or another.
Color me jaded (if you'll excuse the pun).
FT, actually, he's not "bang on"..if any couple followed bicycling when we lived in Europe, it was US...Mr. Z, who followed it his whole life, knew more about it than Ducky could ever hope to, and you, too.
There are riders who absolutely do not do drugs. There are still people with character and decency. Do others do them? Of course...all? no.
The way Armstrong's lied speaks badly for him and the United States. Anything for the almighty buck and anything for the thrill of being the best. Too bad he wasn't.
Ducky and Free... good analysis. My son covers road cycling for a major publication and he would agree that everyone, at least 95% were juiced and that those that weren't had no chance to win anyways.
Lance just happened to be the best juicer ever... and we're not talking Jack LaLanne juice here.
I'm guessing his fellow competitors are not feeling cheated... just beat.
I wonder if Greg Lemond was using?
I hope cycling can get clean like for the most part, the Olympics have... the Tour is a great race...
I'm thinking my point's being lost.
It's cheating. Kids know about this and it sets a bad example. It's wrong. And, of course, it's not close to 95% because the testing is SO far more sophisticated than most understand.
I can't say why or what, but suffice it to say Mr. Z was WELL onto this and knew many don't dope.
And hated the fact that any did.
The Tour isn't a great race when you've gone through two standing at the Champs Elysee, thrilled the American won, and you find out he was pumped and lying.
@Joe --- He rode a BICYCLE for a living! He didn't ride it one iota better than I can...MUCH faster, but not better.
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I'd love to watch Joe in the peloton on a downhill.
@Dave Miller ---
I wonder if Greg Lemond was using?
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Good question. The jury seems to be out but given that detection was not very sophisticated at that time there's a good chance.
I wonder what motivated him to come clean now? Did Oprah pay him big $$$ to come on her show? Maybe it was a win/win for Lance Armstrong and Oprah, since she only had a couple of viewers before this major coup.
I didn't watch the interview either, but I've seen the replays of Armstrong answering "yes" to all the damning questions posed by Oprah. Oddly I didn't detect a look of regret in this eyes, just a hard bold stare. Maybe he lacked "contrition".
He'll come out of this in time smelling like a rose, they all do. Tiger Woods is on the mend, Bill Clinton is an elder stateman now, Charlie Sheen is starting to get gigs again, Lance'll be fine.
See how this stuff works? Except for Pete Rose, don't know what's going on with him, he blows my whole case...
Dave Miller said "I wonder if Greg Lemond was using?"
Never heard any connections to doping, so why not give him the benefit of the doubt.
How about Bill Clinton?
From Z of geeeZ:
Imagine...what about Clinton? DOPING!? I mean, he can BE a dope, but...? :-)
Fredd...good point. Poor Pete Rose is almost the only one who's had to pay the piper; all others are excused and even championed for bad behavior and talking about it "aren't they courageous?" "aren't they wonderful for sharing?"
In the old days, it was shameful to do drugs, drink to where you cause problems, etc..and NOBODY bragged. People got help but not adoration like today. How sick we are, huh?
From Z of GeeeZ:
Waylon, you are SO right..I figure it's a win/ win for Oprah and Lance. Her network's in the dumpster and this wakes everybody up to it; his reputation's in the dumpster and she gives him credibility with her big smiles as he talks.
And he does only stare; there doesn't seem to be the slightest contrition. On the other hand, maybe he holds his cards to his vest and doesn't show emotions.
But he REALLY doesn't look like he's very bothered at ALL about any of this.
Imagine having your whole life's medals stripped?
Do the second in place get the GOLD at the Olympics? Does the second place in the Tour de France now carry the first-place title?
We know that SOME of them, too, do drugs.....do we honor them because he's out of the standings?
And, if they weren't doping, shouldn't they have fanfare for now being FIRST in the Tour?
I actually give the guy a break b/c the cycling world is full of enhanced athletes.
I wish people would be more outraged at our politicians who cheat and are corrupt than at this guy.
Also isn't printing money like doping the economy since there's nothing real about it.
At least Lance Armstrong did some good in raising so much money for cancer. Not sure politicians or the Federal Reserve does that much good.
FrogBurger
I used this line on a different site "Winning the Tour de France without doping is like winning an American election without lobbies' money: impossible."
FrogBurger
He rode a BICYCLE for a living! He didn't ride it one iota better than I can...MUCH faster, but not better.
Ugh? Better and faster are the same thing in that context. He still had amazing capabilities that most of us don't have (VO2).
At least cycling is not like baseball: you have to move your butt a little more and you can't have a fat bootie.
FrogBurger
I'm not so sure he'll bounce back. He's lied for years. It's not a single indiscretion/lie. it's many for years.
As for the baseball players such as Bonds, Sosa, etc.........I don't think they should be in the Hall of Fame. They broke the rules and they knew it.
Games of any kind have rules. If one thinks he can break them in order to win, he doesn't deserve
to be honored.
I agree with SF too.
As for Tiger Woods, he cheated on his wife, not golf. One has nothing to do with the other.
Most don't appear to see it, but this entire brouhaha is just another symptom of the vicious ICONOCLASM and INTERNECINE WAFARE that characterize the age in which we live.
We are absolutely BOUND and DETERMINED to discredit, dishonor, demean and if possible destroy ALL our heroes and icons -- especially if they happen WHITE AMERICAN MALES or men of Anglo-Celtic stock.
It's part of a determined, well-organized "movement" of longstanding designed to spread doubt and confusion, undermine our belief in ourselves, weaken our morale and render us ripe for dictatorship.
I don't blame Lance Armstrong one iota for cynically "cashing in" at this point. He knew he was "ruined" anyway no mater what he said or did. SO, realizing he couldn't possibly BEAT them and having no taste for martyrdom -- like most smart people -- he JOINED them.
That's how the oppositionists who set out to bring him down operate. "Their" methodology has been devised by evil geniuses, who know how to gain ascendancy by exploiting the worst aspects of human nature.
"They" set traps, and almost invariably "we" fall into them. That "we" have been made to feel "righteous" in so doing is one of biggest horse laughs in history.
"What fools we mortals be!
FreeThinke you have a good point.
These days it's more honorable to take welfare checks and watch TV all day than doping to win.
This is where I fight the morality that the pseudo elites in media and gov are trying to teach us. I'm very much in agreement with Nietzsche when he says that morality is often dictated by people on top to control us.
FrogBurger
At least cycling is not like baseball: you have to move your butt a little more and you can't have a fat bootie.
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Love to play the pivot and have you come in to second and get your teeth taken out, Froggy.
Love to play the pivot and have you come in to second and get your teeth taken out, Froggy.
I've taken more hits with vicious tackles in soccer, idiot.
FrogBurger
FrogBurger makes an excellent point; we fixate on the Armstrongs of the world and give a break to really corrupt politicians and allow the media to only skewer Republicans over and over again.
Ducky said: "I'd love to watch Joe in the peloton on a downhill."
Been there, done that. Only I didn't have a special bike. I did it on a Western Flyer...one with only one pedal operated brake on the rear wheel.
Haven't we had enough of this bicycle fraud and that ad nauseam, otherwise obscure, football player and his fake girl friend? Who cares? Is it any wonder why this Country is going 'down the drain'? OK now you can get back to " Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo"; sorry for the interuption!
JonBerg, I heard someone on TV news Friday night say "How can the media ignore this Harvard SCANDAL? They have to cover scandals!"
Then I thought "But it wouldn't BE any big scandal if the media'd just let it go.
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