Most of us are all for
"stop the entitlements! What's it TAKE to realize we can't afford them!?" But, commenter Dave Miller and I discussed a little yesterday (on the comments page of the post below) how stopping government checks to entitlement seekers actually stops income from coming to the government and to private businesses, which we sorely need, because those people can't spend if they don't have the money. On the other hand, we're pouring out money which we desperately need to pay off the debt, etc., to entitlement seekers
etc.,
so which works best?
Do we cut, cut, cut government/entitlement spending.......thereby giving people less money to spend in our economy? Or do we cut, cut, cut, knowing that we're saving money from our government that we don't really have anyway?
I'm confused...help us out here!!
Thanks, Z
z
63 comments:
Mr. AOW has been getting therapy (OT and PT) courtesy of Medicare since August 2012. We're not sure yet, but it could be that he'll be able to do some part time work by this summer. Some entitlements actually may be of benefit and cut entitlement spending overall. Just saying'.
However, I'm not sure that the following is true to a great extent:
stopping government checks to entitlement seekers actually stops income from coming to the government and to private businesses, which we sorely need, because those people can't spend if they don't have the money.
I will say, though, that for th AOW household, the arrival of SSDI and Medicare freed up our spending quite a bit. Before SSDI and Medicare arrived, we were buying no "luxury" goods or services and only cheap food of the kind that isn't nutritious and, thereby, interfering with Mr. AOW's stroke recovery.
Oh, and one more thing....Cutting entitlements such as Medicare will direly impact the healthcare industry. Many nurses, doctors, therapists, etc., would join the ranks of the unemployed and the underemployed.
PS: We keep handicapped taxi and MetroAccess Paratransit in business. Also, automotive repair shops for my ancient Crown Vic, the only one of our vehicles that will accommodate putting Mr. AOW's scooter into the trunk.
There is also a big impact by the physically handicapped on the auto industry (vans) and on medical supply companies (wheelchairs, walkers, medical devices, etc.). If not for Medicare, many of those companies would have much less business.
For the record, the big loser in Obama's re-election is Israel.
The American losers are small business owners, or who might he calls the middle class.
And then the Military who Obama plans to leave practically defenseless.
And you Liberal fools like Dave Miller here call this incompetent clown presidential?
I call him a ridiculous imitation of an American President. You gotta love the double standard of all these leftists here like Dave Miller. Just try to remember the Bush, comments on these blog boards, and the bumper stickers, and the chimp cartoons, and the “Dumb George” remarks, you see these Libs just don’t like to hear a conservative talking about Obam and the first Lady, but lets not forget the remakes from Alec Baldwin, Cher or Rosanne Barr. And ALL these Libs on the blogisphere, For eight years we had to listen to Bush is Satan, Bush is a drunk, Bush is a War Monger but somehow this incompetent socialist clown is exempt?
America is rapidly becoming a banana republic ever since his presidency.
By the way Z, I really enjoyed your posts, you pretty much sum it up in your description of this incompetent Clown thank you.
There needs to be an across the board cut to every government expenditure except defense, not a smaller rise, a real cut.
Then there needs to be an enormous reduction in the number of restrictions put on businesses. All we need are two rules: don't hurt anybody; don't mess with their property. More people will be put to work.
Finally there needs to be a tax reduction to pay for the above.
Put more people to work and tax revenues go up...every time.
5 people paying $100 in taxes. The govt gets $500. Raise taxes on the five to $120 and the govt gets $600. Keep the taxes at $100 and increase the # of tax payers to 10 and the govt. receives $1,000.
Third grade math.
"For the record, the big loser in Obama's re-election is Israel."
-----
I notice Israeli voters weren't too happy with Nuttyyahoo yesterday.
Or was that Obama's fault?
@Joe -- There needs to be an across the board cut to every government expenditure except defense
------
Defense has one of the lowest multiplier effects of any item of Federal spending.
Food stamps has the highest.
Take a look at what austerity is doing in Britain and decide if you think hat's the path.
What is a multiplier effect? Read AOW's posts for insight.
As expected the hateful scumbags who HATE Obama ARE the biggest racists in American History. I didn’t watch the Inauguration yesterday, but I slept till 3pm. All the others who are “glad” that they didn’t watch it are, racists and bigots. That’s what people who hate Obama are…racists and bigots. What’s even more disgusting is that YOU have the galls to call yourselves “Patriots” when you are nothing of the sort. What you ACTUALLY are racists! What you ACTUALLY are bigots, What you ACTUALLY are black haters. What you ACTUALLY are hypocrites
AAND what’s even more disgusting is that you racists get pissed when Most of America are happy over the First Black President. you cancervatives created prompting a President as of God, you racists think it’s blasphemous to compare ANYONE to your Right-wing God, Ronald Reagan. That shows how pathetic you racists are!
Obama lies less, not more than most politicians. He does present things in a light hopefully (for him) to gain the greatest amount of votes. That’s the game all politicians play.
When a Democrat like Obama goes on the offensive. The conservative racists and idiots out there call it “campaigning.” Campaigning without trolling for votes? Maybe you should seek help!
Those who say he is a communist, Marxist or even socialist do not even know what those things are. Is he a Muslim? No, that’s just those who do not want a democrat, or even a black, to be president. Does he hate America or is trying to destroy America, or is an Anti-American? No! again that is the lies the right is saying. Didn’t you listen to his inauguration speech? wait, you didn’t people you’re a racist! We, the people. Doesn’t sound anti-American or hateful to me. Is he a fraud or a ‘man-child’? no that’s the right that is.
Should He be impeached???? He has done nothing to even merit that. All the things which the right claims are things which they were okay with when a republican president did the same things. They are only upset with Obama because he is a democrat. They hated Clinton also. They would hate Reagan to if they really looked at what he did during his administration, instead of picking some items and neglecting the rest.
Obama is a politician. He is told what to do, what to say and where to go. Get with the times, you pathetic racist! Just because A President doesn’t follow your brain-dead racist right-wing idelogoy does NOT mean he hates America, It means you are just a pathetic brain-dead racist!
He is NOT a criminal, nor a Narcissist, has he committed voter fraud! Obama won fair and square! Why can’t you racists accept that?
Ob’s such a “SCOAMF” he grad Harvard Law and passed his bars and practiced law and beat the “war hero,” John McCain & Simple Sarah. Got Bin Laden. The white supremacists of the GOP Base reek of envy and desperation.
Is Barack Obama a monster? he is human Is Barack Obama destroying America? no, or is unemployment going down and stock market up destroying america??
Lighten up. You are out of your league. You racists are pathetic!
Calling the POTUS a POS and a fraud seems to the usual calling call for you right-wing racists and bigots like you!
REAL Americans watched Obama's inauguration, REAL racists didn’t.
The Racist, Conservatives, and rednecks who call obama a monkey, and who vilify his religion and his wife are illiterate and uninformed Americans.
Joe, you state that cutting spending and lowering taxes will produce jobs. If that spending cut reduces jobs, and AOW has provided a good example, how will that happen?
Businesses will hire when people are buying things and the people they have can't keep up.
We've seen over the last few years that lower govt spending puts lots of goby workers out of work, keeps unemployment high and the economy struggling.
What would keep that from happening in your scenario?
Benjamin Netanyahu is the only world leader that has a backbone and a pair. He is not afraid to make a decision and will back it up, quite the opposite from that spineless creep the occupies the White house in Washington.
Lets see, we have a tiny country with very little money and who is surrounded by oil-rich countries with money, power and hatred, who want to wipe out every last Jew off the planet, and wipe Israel off the face of the earth. And what does Obama do? Nothing, put when it come to supporting Libya, or Egypt, or any other Muslim, or Arab nation, he's right there ready to go to war.
Why aren't people that idiotic moron Ducky bitching about the billions the US sends to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, etc.? Perhaps because he's Black like that other CREEP the Question Man.
Well I have some news for you leftist CREEPS, if Obama won't take on the Muslim Brotherhood, and he won't, Israel and England will do it
John Cooper,
LMAO. Israel can't do jack without the $10 billion a year we give them in aid. But of course you racist goobers don't have a problem with THAT kind of government spending, huh?
I just watched 5 minutes of the Hillary testimony. Dick Durbin is actually bringing up Iraq and the war. and threatening to have hearings on THAT now, too. That's the left for you. It's laden with meaning and THE CHEAPEST F'ING SHOT GOING. GOOD way to skip the question at hand.
I wanted to believe Hillary but when she tells the senators "I urge you to read all the information", then you know she feels above it all. As IF the senators wouldn't have armed themselves with all the information before this hearing. They certainly have had the TIME.
Ya, Hillary will come out okay. This is her Monica Lewinsky. No problem ... it'll be history in a month.
You see, I thought she couldn't be blamed for everything in Benghazi; I don't think she's not paying attention; I just think she's very busy and she might NOT have actually heard the Ambassador's pleas for help. I find that weird, but.....it could be.
But she's SO sure of herself in this...and it seems to me it sounds like less that she's innocent and more than she feels totally armed with obfuscation and good rhetoric.
Now a senator's complimenting her on how hard she words; is that the point here? Who doubts she doesn't work hard?
man
Could we have some links about how we pay israel ten billion a year?
Thanks.
DM: "Businesses will hire when people are buying things and the people they have can't keep up."
People buy when they have income from jobs...real jobs...jobs that pay them from the productivity of the company, not from funds confiscated from the employees and the other citizens in the form of taxes.
before I go for a few hours, let me just say how sad I found it that Hillary said "Let's not turn this into a political football."
In other words..it's Obama-speak all over again, even from her. The best defense is a good offense. Make the committee look like this is all politics when we've lost four Americans and they haven't rec'd the complete briefing and want it.
how terribly sad. How much dignity I'd have seen in her had she avoided the disparagement of the very committee in front of which she's testifying.
Z, you were expecting to see dignity?
Yes Joe,
Taking money from me for someone else to spend only means that I will have that much [less] to spend. While certain "transfer payments" may serve a short term humanitarian function, the absence of value added production, implicit in such payments, renders the, so called, "multiplier" a moot concept.
More Later.
Ducky, YOU 'Walk erect' now, you nasty little man.
Go whine again at AOWs that Z "censors" you. Ya, as if someone who's been haunting this site as long as you have doesn't know I delete for profanity and name calling, not content.
I'm glad to be on moderation again...in your honor.
Now, you go "walk erect" to your local leftwing nonsense, or to AOWs terrific blog , and cry about mean ol' Z again.
Thank me later for this, Z:
Kevin O’Leary: Capitalism’s new saviors
"America has changed.
A generation ago, it was a safe bet to get an education, take a job in a large company, buy a house, start a family, and then retire with a pension. It was a straight route to a good life. Those days are over. The recent global financial crisis has been a wake-up call to a new generation of Americans and Canadians, who now see the risks of starting a new company as about the same as working for a large existing one.
The entrepreneurial spirit is back in North America, and not a second too soon. It’s what made both America and Canada great in the past, and it will do so again.
As a young entrepreneur in the early 1990s, I moved to Boston to build my business. At that time, there was no place on earth that coveted the entrepreneurial sprit more than the United States. Names like Bain Capital were not terms of abuse back then. That firm, along with private equity companies such as Thomas H. Lee, provided the hundreds of millions of dollars my colleagues and I needed to build our company. I am proud to call Mitt Romney and the executives of those other private equity firms partners.
Together, we created thousands of American and Canadian jobs as we built SoftKey, and then the Learning Company, into the global leader of educational software. It was the classic entrepreneurial dream: a company started in a Toronto basement on Shaw Street with a $10,000 loan from my mother eventually sold for $4.2-billion. The talented executives went on to start and build more companies, and today you can find their financial DNA imbedded in hundreds of start-ups and operating success stories. This is the essence of what makes capitalism great.
Today, I am horrified when I hear politicians on both sides of the border vilify business leaders. Calling a CEO a “fat cat” degrades the hopes and dreams of millions of young men and women who have a burning desire to be successful. Every large business started as a small one, and as it grew provided the jobs and economic energy that sustains the North America economy.
As an investor, I now travel the world looking for opportunities. Over the last two decades, I have met with many foreign business executives. As U.S. President Barack Obama enters his second term, I have to give him credit for restoring the American “brand.” But if the American capitalist brand is alive and well outside the country, at home in the United States it is fighting a battle with politicians and the anti-big-business media.
I was recently stopped in an airport by a 10-year-old girl. Her mother was panting and out of breath trying to catch up to her. The 10-year-old asked me: “Are you that mean man on that business show?” “Yes,” I said, “but I’m not mean; I just tell the truth.” She responded: “I am coming on the show.” I asked her why she wanted to do that. Her answer? “I have an idea, and I want to be free.”
Her words caught me off guard. This young seeker of financial freedom had wisdom beyond her years. She had already made the connection between success as an entrepreneur and the personal freedom it could provide. She and her generation will save the soul of business.
Politicians and the popular press may have forgotten about the merits of capitalism, but the people have not."
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/22/kevin-oleary-capitalisms-new-saviors/
Joe, yes, people spend when they have more income. That is a fact. But lets say we take Ron Paul's suggestion and cut 1 trillion in gov't spending this year.
Where would the money come from to replace that money in the economy?
Let's go one step further and add to that 1 trillion in real spending cuts, a tax cut, lowering government spending even more.
Won't government then be cutting back on employees?
We have seen over the last three years a slow but steady rise in private sector job growth. But since the economy has lagged, we have seen a drop in federal tax dollar income. This has led to a steep drop in public sector jobs, which has kept unemployment high.
Significant drops in govt spending will result in government workers being displaced, which may, or may not be a good thing.
But where do those people go to get work as the economy will have been retracted by over 1 trillion in spending cuts/economic activity?
My bad. It's actually 3.5 billion per yer of US taxpayer dollars to Israel. http://journalistsresource.org/studies/international/conflicts/u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-2012-congressional-report
That logic is much akin to insisting that in order to lose some weight, you have to double down on the bucket or two o' extra crispy KFC, and wash it all down with some cheeseburgers and a few Orange Crushes.
Gotta have some meat on your bones before you can lose it, right Z?
Z: hopefully you keep zapping Ducky's garbage. That troll is toxic; when he shows up in my comments section, I simply delete whatever invective he spews without reading it.
I'm surprised you put up with it for so long.
Thank you for that Z.
If Dave and the progressive dreamers were correct, government could solve all economic problems by simply hiring everyone.
@ Ducky: Defense has one of the lowest multiplier effects of any item of Federal spending.
Food stamps has the highest.
Bogus BS, which is to be expected from the left.
Defense spending actually builds things like airplanes and ships that the government employs in carrying out its constitutional duties.
Plus, you have all the technology advancement that ends up in the private sector and benefits us all.
Food stamps doesn't do any of that, but from the news we've been getting, they do benefit strip clubs.
Could you fill a swimming pool to overflowing by taking water from the deep end and pour in the shallow end? That is what government spending is all ablout. The only way to increase economic activiy by government spending is to power money from other economies. But, that, eventually, has to be paid back with interest.
Ducky. don't bother.
You know the rules and you break them...
I'm on moderation and you're not being published.
have a nice day; your insults are withering and not tolerated.
Back on topic:
"Entitlements",in a general sense, is becoming a pejorative. Given that Social Security/Medicare is (or should have been) funded by specific "contributions", albeit involuntary, and is meant as "insurance" I'm very reticent to think of it as an entitlement, at least in the pejoritive. In theory, the recipients have paid for such and have individual accounts. In practice, politicians have perverted it into an unmanageable mess! The system now suffers from expansion beyond its intent and limits. It should never have: lost its autonomy from the General Fund, been allowed to provide benifits to those who have made no contributions and been permitted to exceed sound actuarial principals. I have always considered another issue; that being the fact that the funds were never really invested, per se, as in any other system that I know of called "insurance".
How might it be fixed:
1) Remove it completely from any aspect of the General Fund
2) Disallow any benifits to those who have NEVER contributed
3) Require that SS/Medicare be the
sole source of such benefits for the Lawmakers (both Houses) having authority over it (yeah, I know fat chance)
4) Conduct a [sound] actuarial analysis and adjust contributions and eligibility requirments accordingly
5) Provide an Audited Annual Report to all contributors and recipients as to the soundness of the fund(s)
6) Consider putting these funds to work by instituting a [real] diversified investment program, held at complete "arms length" from confiscatory politicians*
* I recall having an argument with one of my professors, some 45 years ago, about this. He maintained that it would be tantamount to "Socialism" and therefore would never happen. Socialism, well just what do we have now?
OFF TOPIC
I finally got around to reading Question Man's diatribe-of-the- day. All I can say is that his redundant fulmination is self-rebuttable and requires no further attention!
JB AKA: The Answer Man
Give it up already Dave Miller. Will you people still be blaming Bush after 9 years of Obama's presidency?
Instead of Mr. Obama’s healing racial tensions and moving on as Americans united despite varying skin colors, the left is fixated on stirring the pot and using any means necessary to promote anarchy, but this is what socialists do. Playing the race card is the liberals most valuable as well as their most used tool. Obama and his bunch of lackeys are hell bent on destroying the America as we knew her. He even had the gaul to say that he wanted to “Re-Shape America” Well my friend he is succeeding. And the suckers who believe in him are the real problem. We had the greatest chance in getting rid of this cancer last November, I personally thought it was going to be a Slam Dunk, and as we know, it wasn’t and we are screwed for another 4 years (at least). There have been more terrorist attacks on U.S. soil by these allegedly calmed Muslims in Obama's first 18 months in office than in the six years under Bush after he invaded Iraq. And the left is still blaming Bush.
The residents of the White House, along with their socialists, Marxists, hate preachers, race baiters, environmental wackos, issuers of death sentence to the elderly and financial thieves,liars, Islam lovers, Constitution defilers, treasonous fanatics, have the media in their back pocket and are conducting open warfare on every aspect of American life. And the delusional brainwashed idiots on the left all voted for Obutthead!
I have to agree with, "My Conservative Thoughts." Summed it all up.
I wish people would wake up and smell the poop Obama is dishing out to his followers.
SIlver, you know that's not what I said at all...
I am just trying to understand how we get from point A to point B.
Everyone knows cold turkey is not possible, so what's the method for getting there?
For me, a good start is to say no more annual increases in spending. In 2013, you spend what you spent in 2014. That type of thinking alone would lower our spending and the deficit as it would eliminate stuff like "we decreased the level of increase, so that is a cut" talk.
Here's something I heard today... until the mid 70's, Congress never put forth a budget. It was always from the WH and then generally made work by Congress. But during the Watergate scandal, Congress decided to get more involved.
Interesting...
1st point. Stop the unlimited unemployment benefits. People getting free money aren't going to look for a job because working is not what they want to do so they have to be forced. Cut them off. I looked at a jobs site for the Cincinnati area last week and there were 120 pages of decent jobs.
Stop doling out money for any program that resembles the above.
Here's a point I want to put out there. The dems have had the majority in government since 2006. That's 6 full years, and the last 4 they've had the most liberal POS in the white house that could possibly end up there. And yet they STILL crawl the internet, posting their vile, hateful, Whining Unhappy adolescent BS day after day after day.
If you're in this category, it Proves without a shadow of a doubt that you are a Loser. An immature, brain dysfunctional (literally) Loser. Good God, if true conservatives were in control of the government since 2006, I'd be off partying, surely not typing my little fingers to the bone talking to a bunch of pathetic losers like yourselves.
But here you are, making asses out of yourselves day after day after minute.
Dig?
Ya, prolly not.
No stopping it, full steam ahead for Obama's spending.
Debbie
Right Truth
http://www.righttruth.typepad.com
Phil, thanks for coming by; good comment.
Dave...I think that's an excellent idea. But it seems like everyone wants spending cut until it's spending given to THEM, you know?
Kid, "And yet they STILL crawl the internet, posting their vile, hateful, Whining Unhappy adolescent BS day after day after day."
It seems they just HATE it when somebody just plain doesn't like their guy. Imagine calling US racists? Makes me laugh thinking about it, frankly.
Debbie, exactly
Z,
I would much rather you tell me that you think I'm wrong than to ignore me. I always value your opinion and outlook on things.
Do we cut, cut, cut government/entitlement spending.......thereby giving people less money to spend in our economy?
Doing the opposite makes consumer price hikes hit everybody because "the gubmint'll pay for it"
There is no free lunch.
Oh...I wanted to add....if anyone segment of society needed AR 15's..it's those poor souls in the most violent ghettos of Chicago, Philly, Detroit, Newark, Baltimore...predominately Black....that need protection from the lowlife criminal scum that takes the lives of their children every day.
If the poor blacks in DC were allowed to defend themselves rather than waiting 30 or 40 minutes for a cop to show up...if they bother to cal 911...there'd be less chalk marks around the bodies of their young.
Hey poor people...Prayer and or Jesse Jerkoff.....ain't gonna do it. Jesse's been around since 1964...and all he's done...is make fools out of you while he gets fat, rich and suckers scared whites out of millions while you morons eat chitlins.
And Jesse...he's a surf and turf man all the way.
He's Chicago's answer to Charlie ( Armani suit ) Rangel.
You...make me laugh...You too...."uptown" thug.
Oh...I forgot....I'm married to a black girl from Shreveport Louisiana since 1976.
I'm white she's the love of my life. I have three beautiful children with Maureen too.
I was a passenger on a flight from NY to LA a long time ago...back when Eastern Air Lines was in existence. She stole my heart...she resisted for months and months...I insisted....she was worried about...what people would think.
So was her family...so was mine. We overcame the "illegality" of this union in many states at the time...
Maureen is my wife of 41 years now.
How did I insist so much? I was an pilot for EAL....she a "stewardess".
We're retired some time now and live on the West coast of Florida.
No one pays us any attention or mind....well...some do....but we just laugh.
OOps...Maureen will kill me...My math is off...LOL
I've known her 41 years now...we're married....0ver 37...sorry.
Jon, Please don't think I'm ignoring you if I don't comment . Mostly, it's because I agree with you so much and it kind of goes without saying; nothing to add, etc.
I've sometimes felt the same at other sites I comment at......I'm sorry you felt that for even five minutes. You're an honored commenter here and my full time job cuts into a LOT of time I have to comment. Forgive me.
Anonymous..What's your Maureen think of the "Black leadership?" My Black friends can't STAND Jackson, Rangel or, indeed, Obama.
I love how happy you sound still with your bride of 37 years :-)
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