Thursday, October 22, 2009

Private Insurance was amazing...

During Mr. Z's last few months of an expensive and lengthy diagnosis period and, then, treatment, our private insurance (one of the Blue's) was AMAZING. Yes, we paid a pretty good premium every month, but we never had to worry about what would not be covered.
We were so grateful that no bureaucrats in Washington were involved, that our doctors were the best in the area and were part of our plan, and that the hospitals where tests were done were also part of our plan....two of the very best hospitals in Los Angeles.

Private insurance is the only way to go, folks; I just lived through it, BIG TIME. We experienced this at our most crucial time and the insurance company had their finest hour.

Let's cover those who aren't insured and tweak the rest to make it better, not undermine it and ruin it for all of us. We were so grateful for our coverage. Leave us alone...........don't ruin it for all of us. I know Mr. Z would want me to mention this. And, by the way, since when is it okay for an American president to harangue any company for making profits? Go ahead, Insurance Company....make a profit; just make sure you treat us as well as you did us when we needed you.

z

61 comments:

Deborah on the Bayside said...

I am so glad that your insurance came through for you. The last thing you want when a life is in the balance is an argument. And this is what insurance is really supposed to be there for.

My experience is far less sanguine -- also with one of the Blues -- inexplicable rejections with Byzantine and undecipherable explanations, even on covered items. Paid for the doctor, but not one cent for the surgery center on a recent surgery. It's a HUGE bill.

Still, I'd rather argue with them than with the government bureaucracy. Nobody can stonewall like an overpaid undermotivated bureaucrat in the seat of power. I'm all for keeping it private!

The Merry Widow said...

Deborah-HEAR, HEAR! I went through it when my late husband had cancer, lots of papers, but small bills!

With 2 teens, it kept me from going completely nuts!
GOD bless and MARANATHA!

tmw

FrogBurger said...

The President is a fascistic bully. Did you see what he said at a Wall Street Fundraiser? He said the only way for companies was to be with them -- and support the gov policies -- or against them and suffer sanctions. I've never seen this in my life, even in socialist France.

Linda said...

We've had private insurance for most of our lives, and PTL, we never had to use it very much. A few broken bones, and a few stitches, but nothing very big. I still wouldn't have been without insurance.

Now, we are on Medicare, and I don't want the government to be messing with my coverage.

I agree with FB...our government has become a bully. They need to take care of the defense of our country, and leave the businesses alone. There is nothing wrong with making a profit.

Remember 2010, and vote. Maybe we can hang on until 2012.

I'm so glad the insurance covered Mr.Z. Having a deadly disease is bad enough without having to worry about how to pay for the treatements.

Elmers Brother said...

I just heard that Medicare is the largest denier of benefits.

Ducky's here said...

I'm sorry that Mr. Z isn't here to remind us that health insurers in Germany are required to be non profit.

I see no reason to shill for these folks who rake off a couple percentage points of the GDP.

Ducky's here said...

Now, we are on Medicare, and I don't want the government to be messing with my coverage.

-----------------------------

I'm going to play nice and let this go by.

Linda said...

Oh, come on, Ducky,
Let it fly! I know they are cutting Medicare coverage, but what are we to do? We really have no other choice. I have had people tell me that we do, but I can't find it, and don't you think that the insurance salesmen would be out in droves to sell it to all of us over the 65 year mark? No one is knocking at my door!

I ToldJah So said...

I'm happy to hear this.
God bless you.

Ducky's here said...

Well Linda, it just seems that many on the right are reasonably happy with Medicare but absolutely abhor the idea of a "private option".

Fact is that the government is the insurer of record for a huge portion of the American population but we don't want to look at the issue of insurance because everyone wants to protect their own interests until the system goes bust which it certainly will in a decade max.

I'd say it would be better to talk about why costs are so high but then we get into the "well because we have the best care in the world" nonsense.

Z said...

Deborah, it's always better to have choices and better coverage.
Government-care will be a disaster, as you know.

FrogBurger, it's good to have you here; someone who sees what's going on today in America with a European eye, the eye of someone who came here from France to escape what's going on here. I'm convinced Americans STILL don't quite see what's happening...it's a "it can't happen HERE" mentality I had until only a few weeks into this presidency. Yes, it CAN happen here......insulting, demeaning and marginalizing ANYBODY who criticizes.
Even the networks stood up finally for FOX yesterday.....Liberal Susan Estrich was shocked the other night.."Where is the NY Times? Why aren't they reproaching the president for insulting a news venue just because their editorialists don't agree with him? Where's the Times on the first amendment?" Finally, they got it.

BY THE WAY, FOLKS....CNN AND MSNBC ARE NEUTRAL? I mean, just the thought that FOX is SO much more biased than Maddow or Olbermann is hilarious! At least FOX stays polite and truthful.

Elbro; that's right, and it will become even worse if this nightmare happens.

Ducky, sorry....the private insurance companies in Germany do make a profit. That's what private companies DO. They even used to do that HERE :-)
As Mr Z's son just said "How do you expect them to survive without profit? That's how they work."

And, of course, even Liberal Schroeder was screaming for Germans to buy private insurance, as I've told you at least ten times, because the gov't product's going broke. Sad our media won't suck it up and tell Americans that truth. And, sure..WE'LL do it BETTER than Germany, right? LIke we've run the DMV, Soc. Sec., etc.?

Re: your line about Medicare...I thought you were better informed than that. wow. People PAID into Medicare, they deserve their coverage...and yes, government WILL stand between good people and the coverage they get now; that'll be largely over.

Z said...

Ducky, thanks, I agree with you and the Republicans...got to figure out why costs are so high.
ODD, isn't it? ..that the left won't look at tort reform, just for a start? Ya, REAL "odd". $$$$

They even say the Republicans have 'no plan' after years of Bush pushing for insurance co-ops, tort reform, etc....lots of good ideas. Too bad Obama doesn't invite them in to that table he promised everyone would sit around during his campaign.

FrogBurger said...

Watch this on the future Copenhagen Treaty (dec 2009). Creepy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHM5PLq9KXo

FrogBurger said...

Obviously we still need to read the treaty but if world gov is mentioned in it, it creeps me out. No competition between countries is like no competition between companies. It's not healthy and will lead to serious corruption (already here in a major scale in the US eg. Goldman Sachs) and obviously an authoritarian world. Fascism backed by lefty ideas.

Maybe the lord took Mr Z just before seeing this :(

Ducky's here said...

A good article on tort reform

... tort reform is just a code phrase that the right uses to avoid serious discussion. It's a red herring.

Z said...

thanks, Ducky...very credible source.
Odd that so many doctors are screaming for tort reform, including mind, fighting for lowering their malpractice fees and not having to pass those high fees on..

I could tell the validity and honesty of the site by Bush's "garbled comments"...nice, Ducky.

CROOKS AND LIARS.....a leftist site, for sure.
And you laugh when we quote Conservative sites? geeeZ

ExPreacherMan said...

Z,

At 80 years old I am on Medicare Advantage... where a PRIVATE company Vista HealthCare contracts to serve and manage their Medicare patients. I have had perfect service from them and their Docs for many years here in S. Florida..

Now, Advantage is and has been a major target for crippling or destruction by the BO man. He has publicly vowed to destroy the program. The BO man can't stand private enterprise competition for his Socialist HealthCare takeover plans.

See my post about my experience at:
http://expreacherman.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/obama-health-care-will-you-kill-me/

Z, still praying for the Lord's comfort for you, our good friend.

In Jesus Christ eternally,

ExP(Jack)

ExPreacherMan said...

Just signing in again for followup on comments.

Please forgive -- thanks

ExP(Jack)

Brooke said...

"I'm sorry that Mr. Z isn't here to remind us that health insurers in Germany are required to be non profit.

I see no reason to shill for these folks who rake off a couple percentage points of the GDP.
"

Z, you are a far more tolerant person than I!

Always On Watch said...

The statements for Mr. AOW's stroke of September 15 are starting to roll in. Thus far, the insurance carrier (one of the Blues) is doing what it promised to do. Most of the $100,000 bill for the first month has been covered -- exactly as the contract states.

That said, the private policy has stringent limitations on prescription coverage: a maximum of $1500 benefit per year. I also note that the policy offers little coverage for durable medical equipment, such as a wheelchair and a hospital bed, both of which Mr. AOW will need when he's released from the nursing home. The bright spot is that the insurance company does a lot of shopping and offers huge discounts on the equipment.

I should also say something else....The only reason that Mr. AOW has any coverage at all is because we converted the COBRA coverage to HIPAA coverage. No insurance company would underwrite Mr. AOW because of his multiple pre-existing conditions, none of which could be excluded via HIPAA. Yes, the premium is astronomical, double the norm for Mr. AOW's age. Nonetheless, we're squeezing out that premium. Also, Medicare should be aboard in about two years after Mr. AOW's Social Security Disability is approved.

BTW, under ObamaKare the policy Mr. AOW has -- that of the catastrophic variety -- would be disallowed! I suspect that monthly premiums under ObamaKare would be even higher!

FrogBurger said...

The goal of Obama is not to make us have affordable healthcare or protect the environment--it's to empoverish us all so that we have no other solutions but to beg for help. That's why he said his policies would drastically increase electricity prices. If he really cared about the small folks, he would not do that kind of things.

Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Which means that EVERYTHING must be done in order to ensure the entire healthcare system is not brought down to collapse by Mr Obama! Call! Write! Speak out! This is NOT the point to let up in any fashion.

And be forewarned: Cap N Tax is NEXT on Mr Obama's plate.

The fight will continue for months and months!

BZ

Anonymous said...

It is interesting to me that whenever there is a debate on political issues, both sides of the argument ignore facts as if they never existed or never mentioned. The result is an echo sounding down a long hallway and each side thinking they’ve won the debate.

Let us first create a crisis, and then spend lots of money attempting to address it. It doesn’t make any difference if the expenditures were a waste of a valuable resource (money), or time, nor even that in the case the health care system is utterly destroyed by socialists who view program success more important that what is best for the American people.

Now about those 50 million uninsured Americans; the numbers are inflated. It is only true if one counts the illegal aliens, who are not entitled to be in this country, let alone receive free medical care at our expense. For those who argue that these people are here and we have an obligation to take care of them, I suppose we can also argue that several hundred million Mexicans aren’t here, but we can take care of them too. They are our neighbors, after all.

Inflated numbers is part of the ‘create a crisis’ modus operendi of the Obama administration. Try 30 million on for size. Of those, half have decided not to sign up with employee sponsored health care insurance. Of the remaining 15 million, we need to address those issues. But we ought to ask, “Why is this something the federal government needs to do?” Don’t we have a federalist system —power shared with states? And since citizens are foremost citizens of states, shouldn’t the states provide access to medical health care systems? Of course, this could cause states to reprioritize their medical services. Maybe people who require methadone treatments will have to go cold turkey in a county lock up.

By the way, Malaysia doesn’t have a drug problem. The reason for this is that drug use, possession, sale, or transfer is a capital offense.

Tort reform: Citizens should have the right to sue a medical professional or organization who behaved in an unacceptably incompetent manner, where the citizen suffered serious damage, pain, and suffering; whenever such medical malpractice inflicted a life-changing disaster. Citizens who sue their plastic surgeons … nah. It was elective surgery and you take your chances with such things.

Health care isn’t the federal government’s business. I wish they’d concentrate more on the things the Constitution tells them to do, and leave everything else up to the “States or the people.”

The problem outlined by Deborah is real and must be addressed. We do need to fix the system, but we need not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Unless you're a socialist opportunist, of course.

Semper Fi

Mustang

Michelle said...

I've been accused of being "irresponsible" because I am a mother of 7 with no insurance and I'm *firmly* against obamacare.

Before people have a stroke, let me say that I (nor any other American) have a right to healthcare. It's not in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

Part of my reason for opposing obamacare, is because I think it would be terribly hypocritical of me. I stay home with my children and homeschool them by choice. I know many people who work just for their healthcare. I have that choice as well. I refuse to accept that other's should work for my healthcare.

Besides, I keep asking myself, "Why do we need Obamacare...everyone says we are already paying people's healthcare for those who can't afford insurance?"

I'm so glad that Mr. Z's insurance has worked for him.

Soon, I hope to join a Christian medical sharing group...much less expensive and according to what several people I know says, it works wonderfully.

Anonymous said...

Z, It's wonderful that Mr. Z received the care he needed. There is no reason to think the government would have come through with the necessary urgency or treatment once they determined the rarity of the disease, and the expense involved in the required treatment.

Ducky, Mr. Pris and I have paid into Medicare since it's inception. Now, even though he's retired and we have Medicare those payments continue and come out of our Social Security. We were given no choice but to participate in this government shell game.

However, we're happy because we have a supplemental health insurance policy (private insurance). Why? Because we know Medicare in and of itself isn't enough if we should have to avail ourselves of more care in the event of a catastrophic illness.

We also have savings which we could avail ourselves of in the event insurance isn't enough. We do this so our children won't have the burden of coming to our aid.

We chose to make this a priority. It was our decision and we did without other material niceties to do it. We don't begrudge it, and we don't whine about it. It's our choice as what we feel is being responsible adults. The point is, we were free to take these measures with no government interference.

Now, as far as non-profit is concerned, while the President demonizes any opponent of government healthcare, he has no problem with profit taking when receiving millions of campaign dollars from any and all industries including the insurance industry.

By hook or by crook I might add.

How about we put a stop to that? It's costing us all in higher premiums isn't it?

Insurance is a service like any other, you either buy it or you don't. If you don't, pay the bill yourself. If you have to take out a loan to pay it, do that. There's no free lunch and never will be.

I'd rather pay an insurance provider than pay the government to tell me or Mr. Pris we're too old or too sick to be cared for.

I have an aunt who last year at age 86, had her second heart valve replacement. She's doing great and feels great. I'm under no illusion she'd have been granted that surgery under government healthcare.

In Britain if she'd been seventy, she would have been refused that surgery.

Finally, having said all that, it is my children and my grandson I worry most about. Their future looks grim with a government now poised to overtake their freedom and to confiscate their money. To make them entirely dependent on the government.

Healthcare and the global warming scams will see to that. You can count on it.

And one more thing Ducky. I'm just sorry and sad that Mr. Z isn't here, period. So, I ask you to show a little sensitivity when commenting here please.

Pris

DaBlade said...

As usual, I can't disagree with any of your post here. Unfortunately the bureaucrats are only warming up for the rest of us.

I've thought about you every day since that shocking post concerning Mr. Z's untimely passing.I know your faith, family and friends are helping you through this very trying time.

Z said...

Brooke and Pris, there are no words.
It might be the most insensitive thing I've ever had written here.

This grief is something I wish nobody had to ever ever go through. That I can type here from time to time is a good thing, it gets my mind off my dear man.

I thank everyone else very much for their respect.

Z said...

thanks, DaBlade, I just saw your post.
I do need prayer right now..BIG TIME

Leticia said...

I am very thankful for our insurance company. I have had a lot of doctor's visits, with x-rays, CT scans, etc. just this year and to wind up with a $600 bill isn't too bad at all. And we can make small payments to top it all.

Z, it is frightening to think what will happen to those who are terminally if Obama gets his way. He wants pain medication administered and nothing more. I am curious if he would want that for himself, his children or his wife, and his cronies?

Jan said...

Still here, Z..just haven't commented much.

I'm still sick at heart thinking of what you are going through, losing the love of your life as you did. No one is ever prepared, though, no matter how much they think they will be. Only someone who has experienced what you have, can truly fathom the depth of anguish one experiences.

I'm not familiar with the disease which took your precious man, but I am veru familiar with porphyria.

It pains me to find insensitivity here, and you are more than gracious..but then, you're our Z. :)

I'm still praying for you, and for your peace and calm.
Honey

Elmers Brother said...

doesn't tort reform also mean that doctors will no longer have to play defense when it comes to ordering procedurs etc....it's not just the monetary awards the courts hand out

Law and Order Teacher said...

Z,
I admire that you have returned to the fray. It is cathartic to some extent. Don't however, feel that you are obligated to fight at this point. Don't be afraid to take some time. Don't be afraid reflect and remember. You deserve it. I am praying for you and I hope your recovery is on the road.

FJ said...

Even with the worst private health insurance company in the world, there is always someone you can appeal their decision to. With the government in charge of health care, there is NO appeal.

Z said...

Law&Order..the blog is good for me, you're right.
But, this is FAR FAR worse than I could have EVER imagined and I have very difficult moments.
You're right...I blog when I'm feeling it, eat when I'm feeling it, sleep when I can, and, mostly, I miss my husband. Everyone says "be good to yourself". .....I am beginning to see why.

Thanks.

BB-Idaho said...

Many, if not all the BS/BC groups are non-profit. Not sure about yours. My medicare supplement is partially subsidized as part of my pension, but they switched me from BS/BC to Cigna, which as a deplorable reputation.
So much for choice. I am considering chucking the subsidized and paying more for a
BC/BS plan. My part D (Humana) sends me medical advice signed by an MBA!! The ONE choice we do not have is to quit their crummy plans.
They are immune to boycott. :)

Jungle Mom said...

You are a brave lady to be tackling this subject so soon.

Law and Order Teacher said...

Z,
I remember when my dad passed. I thought, I'm strong, I'll move on, but really it was tough. Some days I think of him and cry and some days I think of him and laugh. That's all part of it. Reflect and remember. Mr. Z was a good man and he deserves your grief. It's OK to feel it. When it's done you can move on. Don't hurry. Above all, remember, God is good.

Z said...

Jungle Mom...I'm not sure it's 'brave'...I just got tired of hearing about those 'awful for profit insurance companies' the other night on TV and jumped out of my seat to write this, knowing Mr Z would want me to.
He loved America SO MUCH and was fed up with the lies, etc. I feel like I want to represent his thoughts and beliefs because they were so strong and well informed.

BB-Idaho...I can't figure out how any insurance company can be non-profit..or any COMPANY, for that matter.

Law & Order...it feels good to blog; not to think about ME. thanks for the excellent advice....grieving? TRUST ME, I am 'feeling it'....trust me.

Faith said...

I'm always relieved when I see you post here now, Z, and I'm glad you can at least once in a while, and glad if it helps you to do it. All the advice to take it slow and easy, a day at a time, and take care of yourself, is good advice. I'm still praying for you too.

Anonymous said...

If the government can handle our retirement savings, I see no reason why it can't handle our health care. I suppose I should mention that I just got a letter from the social security administration saying I should expect to get about 75% of my scheduled benefits. Interestingly, the letter cited people living longer as one of the cuases draining social security. I wonder why nobody is bringing up the possibility of death squads.

And no, death squads would not be a nefarious group of pirates circled around a table taking orders from Dr. Claw. They will be well-respected people making difficult decisions about who will receive the limited resources. In the end, resources will go to those who find favor with this government body. That's a lot of power to trust the government with--a lot. And Lord Acton didn't say that power tends to purify.

I had a doctor's appointment today. The doctor said he'd be reluctant to recommend people to go into the field. The six-digit salaries aren't that enticing when you get out of school in your low 30's owning nothing and owing a quarter million dollars in debt. Maybe tax hikes on rich aren't such a good idea. Less incentive will mean fewer doctors; fewer doctors, more rationing; more rationing, more apologetics about how this planned economy would have worked out just fine were it not for the unpredictable dearth of doctors. I think the USSR tried a similar experiment. How many years was it that they had record-breaking droughts?

Enough of my rambling...but one more point. If I'm not mistaken, businesses provide insurance benefits to their employees, but the benefits are not taxed the same as the salary is. In other words, this is money that can only be spent on health care. More money for everyone to spend on insurance equals higher demand. Higher demand equals higher prices. So insurance is so important that laws require/encourage employers to provide insurance to employees; consequently, insurance prices increase, becoming unaffordable for anyone not working. Not intended, but predictable.

tiob

Impertinent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LASunsett said...

Ducky wrote:

//... tort reform is just a code phrase that the right uses to avoid serious discussion. It's a red herring.//

Obviously, you have never had to write a check to a lawyer to defend a frivolous lawsuit like this one, nor have you written one to pay an exorbitant malpractice insurance premium.

Always On Watch said...

Z,
this is FAR FAR worse than I could have EVER imagined and I have very difficult moments.

Years ago, Lorna, a friend of my parents, stated: "Nothing prepares you for the loss of your mate."

It is a special kind of grief, as if that of losing one's child.

I will continue to pray for you.

Always On Watch said...

Medicare coverage would be useful for Mr. AOW right now. But one must also carry a medigap policy.

Jan said...

Dearest Z..how I pray that you are feeling the strength, and hope, of the love of our God at this very moment.

I know Mr. Z would be so proud to know that you are so determined to help others, even in the midst of your own sorrow, and period of adjustment, and he would be the first to tell you that you are not alone in this.

I haven't blogged in awhile, but I posted last night, with you in mind, because I want so much, to encourage you, and to make you feel better. and to keep reminding you that you are loved and appreciated.

Pat Jenkins said...

personal testimony will not stop the left's attempt to destroy personal rights z!! it is sad!!!

Anonymous said...

It's good to see you back on your blog again,Z. First-hand experience with the health care system is the best proof that it isn't as bad as those demanding a full government controlled health care plan. Anazingly enough, it's the "educated" leftists who would think that any enterprise or even country can survive without a motivation for profit since it's profit that drives innovation.

I came across an interesting discussion on the FPM blog about a group called the Oath Keepers. I'll provide a link to the site, since I think it is a good news story. It's a group in the police and military who have formed to refuse to obey the orders of the government if or when the time comes that the government orders those groups to turn on the American people. This is something that could provide a check on what the government seems intent on doing as it goes forward with its socialization process.


http://oathkeepers.org/oath/


Waylon

Maggie M. Thornton said...

Z, I appreciate you telling the world about your good experience when it was vital and necessary to your family.

I haven't needed insurance in the same critical way that you have, but I have experienced it in a major way with my mother. While she is on Medicare, she also pays monthly for a very good supplemental plan and it has paid-off for her.

Sending blessings your way.

Tom said...

I'm glad you had a good experience with your insurance company. The reason this debate is so heated, is that millions have not had that same good experience with their insurance company. The facts and individual stories tell the story of what is happening, and it is not a pretty picture.

Health Care for all is a moral issue, it only enters the political realm as we decide how best to cover all Americans.

It's understandable to not want to pay for those who refuse to buy insurance, can't afford insurance, or are here illegally. Yet, it is those uninsured that are driving up the costs. Emergency room care is ten times more expensive that doctor/patient care.

American History shows us that the American people try to stop suffering whenever possible. From slavery to the harsh times of the great depression, Americans have shown that they will stand up and fight with their money, or arms to correct the suffering within their own (and foreign) country.

I am honored to be a member of a society that thinks that way. I am aware that I have to pay higher taxes to support such a society.

Morality defends the idea of health care availability for all citizens.

Are people who pay their premiums, then denied coverage, being abused? I have no doubt that insurance companies are being unfaithful to the contracts they make with their customers, based simply on profit.

I prefer regulation over government takeover. Either way, a good case has been made that the status quo, is not fulfilling the needs of our society.

One of my reasons to see change of the way we pay for medical insurance, is to take the costs off the backs of our employers.

Is health care a right? The courts would have to decide that issue, and thankfully that is not the question at hand. If that becomes the question (I believe it will within the net 50 years) then how would the phrases from our founding documents help decide that question?

"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and "Promote the general welfare"

Certainly a persons health and availability to health care speaks directly to life and welfare.

I hope that things get back to a healthy norm for you.

Z said...

Tom, a "healthy norm"? No, that's your opinion, it's not my norm nor is it a lot of America's 'norm', right?!.
And, of course, NOBODY doesn't hope all Americans are covered.

FIX THE PROBLEM, do NOT mess with my insurance...why's that so hard to swallow for so many people?

Do you TRULY think that if there's a much cheaper gov't option the good private insurance companies will be able to stay open? NO, so Obama's lying about "you can keep your insurance"..see that?

Do you want your doctor leaving the practice of medicine (as 45% of docs have threatened to do) because he has to check into Washington to see if that MRI is REALLY needed for you? Do you know how awful Canada's and Britain's ins. coverage is NOW? Why is this gov't leading us down that path? Canadians are wondering..why aren't some of US?

Do you think the DMV and Soc Sec and welfare are successes run by our gov't enough that we can hand our HEALTH CARE over to them because some refuse to be covered?

is it American to INSIST on people buying coverage of be punished?$$

We need to get back to capitalism, free market, tort reform, and cover in some way those who aren't insured. Also, bring down costs, etc etc. And stop insuring the illegals who have closed at least 3 hospitals in the Los Angeles area alone...CLOSED DOWN under the weight of their using our hospitals for doc visits.

Thanks for coming by...I hope you do again. And I'm eager for a response as I welcome all thinking here...

Tom said...

Z,
When I said "healthy norm" I meant best wishes for you personally. You seem to have taken that as some kind of national generality.

It's a mistake to judge your good results with your insurance company as the usual result most people and doctors have with insurance companies. According to the current bill your plan will NOT change. You can keep what you have.

"Do you want your doctor leaving the practice of medicine (as 45% of docs have threatened to do) because he has to check into Washington to see if that MRI is REALLY needed for you?"

Of course not! You are aware that doctors decisions are being dictated by health insurance companies according to what they will pay to cover. Doctors are sick of being told what they should prescribe to their patients by these insurance companies, and a majority (69%) of doctors want health care reform.

A government program is not useless because it has fraud and abuse. ALL government programs have fraud and abuse. Should we eliminate, or deny the Defense Department to Americans because the Defense Department has some of the biggest waste and abuse of any federal program?

"is it American to INSIST on people buying coverage of be punished?$$"

Is it? We already insist on car, property, liability insurance etc. and enforce punishments for not buying that coverage. That is to protect other people from possible harm, not yourself. If all have health insurance, that protects us from the cost of others negligent behavior. Seems that is a proven practice in our society.

Tort reform is great, we need it. But don't kid yourself, it is (according to the CBO) only 2% of the total expense of the medical insurance system. Tort reform will NOT solve the problem, but we should have it.

Competition brings costs down. A non-profit will bring competition.

I do not see strong enough competition within the private health insurance industry to keep costs down. In fact health care costs are sky rocketing far beyond any other industry, so much so, that it is in danger of becoming unaffordable to any one but the rich. That is not good, normal, free market capitalism at work.

If capitalism only serves a minority of its society, then it is a failure.

Yes, those hospitals are being closed down, because those people are not insured. So do we allow the hospitals to be closed, or do we figure out a way to insure that segment of society?

If we make a moral decision that no one will be turned away, then we must also make the moral and responsible decision to financially protect the medical (including hospitals) system by saying that all should be insured.

You didn't speak to the morality of this, which is what my comment was about.

You didn't speak to the costs being taken off the backs of our employers, which I said/think is most important for health care reform to do.

You didn't speak to the abuses health insurance companies are putting upon their PAYING customers, which has so many people seeking health care reform.

You didn't speak to the point that a majority of Americans believe, that people should have access to health care.

"FIX THE PROBLEM"

What is your answer? Tort reform, what else? Your happy, fine, but 10's of millions are not.

In a Democracy, I have to live with much that I disagree with because the majority has decided otherwise.

I have no kids. Why should I pay school taxes?

If someone does not own a car, why should they pay taxes to build roads and bridges?

We do these things for the betterment of society as a whole.

It is selfish of me to not be responsible to the needs of my fellow citizens, just because I do not personally need those services. The taxes I pay, are not just to provide services to me, but to the whole country.

All Americans communally pay taxes for services needed for the whole society, whether they personally need them or not.

Freedomnow said...

It is foolish to replace private insurance with government insurance as a means of reform.

And please, the code words of "competition" that are used when describing a public option is either foolishness or an outright lie.

Both Obama and Barney Frank stated that a public option is the best path to a single payer system. They know that it destroys competition. How much competition does Medicare have? You cant compete with FREE. Post Office styled health care is not serious reform. We dont need a bureaucratic nightmare like that.

All this b.s. about "paying taxes" is overboard. Why is it our responsibility to support historic debt gone out of control? I have no problem paying taxes, but demand accountability. If demanding accountability is unpatriotic or selfish then wallow in your ignorance.

Z, you are an inspiration. I wish you the best.

Thank you for sharing.

Z said...

thank you, FreedomNow..good to hear from you, my friend.

Tom, I'm sorry about the 'healthy norm' thing......I'm edgy and jumped down your throat.

I'll try to respond tomorrow. Thanks for writing again.
I will say I don't see the thinking behind this:
"If we make a moral decision that no one will be turned away, then we must also make the moral and responsible decision to financially protect the medical (including hospitals) system by saying that all should be insured."

How is making sure all are insured protecting the medical system?

I just do not want a public option..period. I don't want to be forced into a plan everyone should know will never be as good as my private insurance plan...

Tom said...

Z,

If we morally decide that we will not turn away any one for medical care, then we have a responsibility to financially support those institutions that give that health care.

No hospital should go broke (out of business) because they give care to those that cannot afford it, especially if they, by law, cannot deny care based on an inability of the patient to pay.

It's like an unfunded mandate. We either deny to treat those that cannot pay, or we subsidize the institutions that are mandated to treat those that cannot pay.

It's irresponsible to force institutions to treat people that cannot pay, and then just allow those institutions to go bankrupt.

If it's our (society) mandate then we are responsible to pay for the laws we pass.

Having everyone insured cuts costs for all. Those who pay for health insurance now, are paying for the expensive bills of the uninsured who do not pay.

You are not being forced into a public system. You can keep whatever plan you currently have.


Freedom Now,

"It is foolish to replace private insurance with government insurance as a means of reform."

I agree, and said so.

If someone offers the same service for less, that does create competition.

Government health, government anything is not free, we all pay for it.

I'll repeat myself, I am against government takeover of health care.

"Historic debt", is our responsibility. We spent that money without taxing ourselves enough to pay for it.

Demanding accountability is EXACTLY what we should do! Why haven't we?! I try all the time. I constantly write my representatives. I encourage Congressional oversight and investigations. I have no idea why you think I don't, or why you call me ignorant.

We have an 11 trillion dollar debt. 5 trillion from President Reagan's administration and 5-1/2 trillion from President Bush's administration. WHY? Because we did not tax ourselves enough to pay for what we spent.

It is OUR fault. We hired (elected) these politicians, we can fire these politicians, and it is our responsibility to supervise these politicians. We have not been doing our jobs as good, civic minded citizens.

It does not matter if we agree with the Iraq war, or not. We are responsible for the debt incurred to wage that war. It's irresponsible to pass that debt to future generations of Americans.

Americans voted for, supported, and have reaped the benefits of all the government programs. It is our responsibility to pay for them.

If you want to eliminate a program such as the Defense Department, or Social Security, fine. But until we do we still have the responsibility to pay for the programs we made by our democratically legal process.

The founding fathers never believed in no taxes. One of the first thing they did was to apply taxes to fund the new government. They only disagreed with "taxation without representation."

We have representation by democratic, majority elections. We give those representatives the authority to make laws, including tax laws.

Z said...

Tom, I wish you'd commented on my latest blog post where I posted YOUR original comment...I'm hoping to get some good conversation there.

I'm feeling we do NOT have representation now; Conservatives are not brought to the table, then the Left says "they have no ideas" when anyone with an ear and brains knows they have had very good ideas for health care which did not demanding our country go broke paying for it.

We're not being listened to and we're seeing hugely expensive decisions being made which will probably break America...

Defense Department closing? That's one of the only things our constitution really does provide for......

Anonymous said...

My own personal experience with private health insurance, which I always managed to purchase, even though I was "statistically poor" for much of my adult life, has been very good.

Before I bought insurance, I was seriously ill a couple of times, and the hospitals and doctors involved allowed me to pay (very) small monthly installments -- at no interest -- till the debt was paid off. Somehow, I always managed to honor my commitment to them and to live decently at the same time. It CAN -- and SHOULD -- be done.

I believe we should carry insurance only for catastrophic illness. No one should expect anyone to subsidize the care of ordinary ailments like colds, flu, scraped knees, or vague symptoms that can't be clearly defined.

I have noticed that the more government gets involved with health care the more cumbersome, hugely expensive and limited it becomes.

I am very glad to learn that Mr and Mrs. Z had a good experience with insurance during Mr. Z's tragic final illness. I too have been part to much serious illness and disability, and have nothing but respect and gratitude for doctors, nurses and their assistants.

Lawyers, however, are another matter altogether.

~ FreeThinke

Z said...

Free Thinker..thanks for that...I wish you'd post it on the top article, too..because that is SUCH an important point.

YES, ALL DOCTORS MUST accept a minimum payment plan..MUST...and DO.

What a huge addition to this discussion.......perhaps I"ll print your comment there now, thanks.

THAT is free market thinking....pay as you can, be honest and regular, and you'll get what you need ....bravo, FT.

Freedomnow said...

Well Tom, you are swallowing a bald-faced lie.

The Democratic Party views the public option as means to a single payer system. Their leaders have been caught on record saying so.

It is sickening (no pun intended).

Freedomnow said...

And if anyone can show me where I objected to the government's right to tax me, please let me know.

It is an entirely different matter to exercise my right to say that our taxpayer money is currently viewed as a cash crop by Washington. While respecting our government’s right to tax its citizens, I would still like to object to the current historic spending spree...

Thank you!!!

MK said...

Good to hear Z, i also have private cover and i can't fault them, the public system which i also pay for it a different story altogether.

No matter what the likes of quacky prattle on about, it's crap which ever way you look at it, that's why the like of him won't move to where socialized medicine is the only option.

Susannah said...

"Let's cover those who aren't insured and tweak the rest to make it better, not undermine it and ruin it for all of us. We were so grateful for our coverage."

Amen, sister!