Does Mitt Romney's Mormonism bother you to the point of not voting for him?
These stories, HERE, HERE, HERE, and others, really spoke well for Mr. Romney.
God is good. Have a great Sunday.
I tried to Google Mormon Mitt Romney Images, but the images were all highly insulting. Sad.
z
75 comments:
Does Mitt Romney's Mormonism bother you to the point of not voting for him?
No, but his left-of-center politics do.
Does Mitt Romney's Mormonism bother you to the point of not voting for him?
Nope.
When I was growing up, many Protestants were having fits that JFK was Roman Catholic. You know the kind of Protestants I mean: the ones that believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the anti-Christ.
Back when Reagan was running for POTUS, those same people were having fits that he "was a divorced man." In the end, each and every one of those I-hate-the-Catholics people voted for Reagan.
Do you know anybody who is that bothered?
Before Romney gained the nomination, some evangelicals I know expressed concern; but only one particular evangelical whom I personally know will likely not vote for Romney.
Once it became clear that Romney was the nominee, most Christians whom I know reacted thus: "Whatever faith Obama may believe in, he is worse than Romney."
Not at all.
I've had a Mormon coworker and not only was he nice but he was maybe the hardest working guy of the bunch.
He won't slack like the current lazy butt in chief we have.
I would rather vote for a Mormon than a Muslim.
I don't have a problem with it. Reality is, we need to get our country back from the socialists.
Religion is an intensely personal decision each of us make, either for one, or another, or for none at all. I believe that each of us must find our way to a final destiny. I believe in “free will”; I believe there are consequences to our decisions. This is why, to borrow from a line a Harrison Ford film, we must “choose wisely.” But I do not think that God favors one denomination over another. Mr. Romney’s religious beliefs do not bother me in the least —and if Obama’s religion wasn’t an issue, neither should Romney’s.
Bill Bennett uses the analogy:
"This is your flight attendant.
The pilot's incapacitated.
Is anybody a pilot, who's not a Mormon?"
Yes I'd prefer an evangelical.
But to enable the current disaster by not voting for "the Mormon" is foolish.
From I heard him say, Mitt Romney has said he depends on Christ and His atonement. That's basic Christianity.
Roney is clearly a man of faith in the same God that the Christians and Jews believe in. What's not to like?
Robert Sinclair said it well.
It's none of my business how someone worships God.
What should be of concern with elected officials is how their faith manifests itself in society.
Mitt Romney has clearly lived out his faith in Jesus Christ.
Silverfiddle has said it well..
beamish, boring.
Great comments, everybody; I was hoping and expecting to get these responses.
I think the ANYBODY BUT OBAMA thing's strong but I am certain the DNC will turn that around for a while, maybe till the election.
I can hear the Axelrod memes are very powerful, particularly if people don't check for the truth in them. Axelrod is extremely effective and knows exactly how to imprint on peoples' minds what he wants them to think. the word "weird" for example. Romney is WEIRD, Eastwood was WEIRD. It's no accident that fairly articulate leftwing newspeople ALL used WEIRD for Eastwood..it was a very effective way to overshadow WHAT HE SAID ABOUT OBAMA.
THat's really barely been discussed!!
SO....I'm wondering how Axelrod might swing the Mormon thing. It will be there; EXTREMELY subtle, but I saw something already (can't remember now what it was) but it was there. wait for it.
Z,
You asked, I answered. If you want to pretend Romney doesn't have the political record of a progressive leftist, even when the schmuck has claimed repeatedly that he is in fact a progressive, then that's your delusion, not mine.
Why you want to reward the Republican Party's mad dash to the left is perhaps something you should explain. Is it because Romney is white?
We should celebrate whenever a God-fearing man involves himself with politics. While not always true, one who lives his religious conviction offers us the opportunity to regain our faith in the democratic system, which has always been plagued with cheats, liars, charlatans, and false prophets. I prefer that a man demonstrate his religious conviction by example —as Mr. Romney appears to do, rather than preaching to us incessantly about what a great citizen of the world he is, which is what Obama does.
BTW Z ... I think you should read this. Remind you of anyone?
Z,
No problem for me! I remember, as AOW referred to, the hulabaloo about JFK being Catholic. It turned out to be a non issue after he was elected.
I expect the same result regarding Romney. To me this also, is a non issue.
"Why you want to reward the Republican Party's mad dash to the left is perhaps something you should explain. Is it because Romney is white?"
beamish, this remark about "being white", is a below the belt comment to Z. She deserves an apology from you.
A man is what he DOES -- not what he SAYS he "believes."
How we choose to relate to other human beings is all that should matter.
God is in and of everything that is GOOD.
~ FT
Sometimes the Catholic or the Mormon candidate is the better person with the better character and the better policies and we need such people in office, which is why we should vote for Romney. Not to mention that even if he were a Martian he'd be better than Obama.
NEVERTHELESS it is a sad commentary on how this once-Protestant nation has fallen that so many have no idea that it really does matter in the long run what religion our politicians embrace. Mormonism is not only a false religion, as is Catholicism, an idolatry that God cannot honor (although He may honor individual Catholics and Mormons because of their good character), but both religions have ulterior motives that would surface to the detriment of the nation if they ever get real power.
We've lost our sense of history. Really sad.
Protestant voter
Nowhere near as much as I bothered by the 'One's' lack of faith and his muslim roots. And his omitting of "Creator" every chance he gets. We know he'd like to substitute that with allah instead.
He's played more rounds of golf on Sunday than he has been to church. Since he's had his useless butt in our Oval Office, I think he's been to church..what?...3 times?
I wonder if the 'One' is going to tell "his people"...to lay off of Mitt's religion as McPain told his followers in 2008?
Or let them all continue to be steeped in ignorance and stupidity so long as it suits
Alexrods & Jarrets agenda.
Protestant voter:
God only seems to care what humans think about one topic:
His Son.
Whoever honors the Son honors the Father.
Everybody but me has the wrong doctrine, and even I'm wrong a lot.
If Romney ever publicly dishonored Jesus there'd be a problem.
It is problematic that Mormons are woks oriented, but it seems to be based on faith in Christ, similar to the argument in James, "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone,".
I'll not judge him and his salvation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/under-god/post/mitt-romney-i-believe-in-heavenly-father-jesus-christ-and-the-holy-ghost/2012/06/01/gJQApeQD7U_blog.html
Problem, Ed, is that the Jesus Mormons believe in is NOT the Jesus of the Bible. They aren't "honoring the Son" because they don't know the true Son. And their "heavenly father" is a former human being who physically impregnated the Virgin Mary and "graduated" to godhood as it were, which all Mormons also hope to do eventually. AND the rites of their Temple are all based on anti-Christian Masonry, including blood oaths and the lambskin "fig leaf" that Masons take for their guarantee of salvation. It's not JUST works-righteousness, you see, the whole religion is a blasphemous mess, and how otherwise nice and intelligent people can subscribe to it is hard to fathom.
Protestant Voter
Jesus in Mormonism is the physical son of this physical "heavenly father" and so is "Lucifer" who is therefore their false Jesus' blood brother.
The plot thickens.
Check out Ed Decker if you'd like to know the truth about Mormonism:
http://www.saintsalive.com/
Protestant Voter
@ Protestant Voter
It is probably better that you concern yourself with your own salvation, and let God work in His marvelous ways to bring others to His light. And should you be deceived about Catholicism, I can give you this testimony: if Protestant Chaplains had the courage of Catholic Priests in combat, thousands of our young men would not have gone across the river alone, and afraid.
@Anon
"if you'd like to know the truth about Mormonism.."
Let's be fair and compare it to our real ... REAL problem...Islam. I don't remember any Mormons engaging in murder, slaughter, 911 type attacks or any terrorism. Nor are they killing Americans in ME crap holes either. They live and let live friend. And if they have some "quirks"...then I suggest you really exam Islam if you want to point fingers.
I'll take Robert Spencer over your Decker any day.
Mormons don't commit murder THESE days but there was a time when they did. It's OK to kill heretics don't you know. All a matter of when they have opportunity and when they don't. Same with the Catholic Church which murdered over fifty million in the name of their false idea of Christianity. Not something to blame on the rank and file members of either religion but something the power structure will do when power is on their side. Islam is just the currently most active version of the same mentality. Not a good thing to be ignorant of history. Sometimes things change and evil rises up to bite you in the butt just because of your ignorance. The Holocaust for instance was amazingly to a great extent modeled on the Inquisition. I bet you didn't know that and you think Catholics are nice people too so obviously they are no threat.
Protestant Voter
beamish, ya, that's it. Because he's white. You know me, the big racist.
Well, Anonymous, it's a damned good thing Romney's not running for PASTOR IN CHIEF, isn't it.
He's a good man and he loves Jesus.
Pris, I don't admire beamish's brain enough anymore to give a darn about an apology, but thanks. Very much...
Jack Whyte, how VERY beautiful and inspiring your words re Catholic priests on the battlefield are. I LOVE that, it just went over me like a warm bath...thank you SO much.
To take Christ out of the battlefield like Obama's gov't has been trying to do is not only cruel, it could be eternal for so many of our boys and girls over there. how awful.
Protestant Voter...we have lost our sense of history only if we don't embrace all faiths who proclaim Jesus Christ. Our history is that, nothing else. Will you be excluding Methodists and Lutherans to your list of possible candidates? (by the way, I AM on your side here; I truly wish a good evangelical was running and he could wear his religion on his sleeve when AMericans needed succor and encouragement and never at any other time....but that he was INFORMED by that faith ALL THE TIME. I do agree with you on that! BELIEVE ME!)
And, as Jack Whyte so WISELY and BEAUTIFULLY said, ..Let us hope that God works in all who don't know the true God, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
It's up to HIM, not US...and we will be praying for Romney ...
We need him to lead our country, not preach to our country.
I'm counting on his excellent character and the fruits of his tree look admirable to me....that's a very good sign.
Imp, I think Axelrod and Jarrett will start on Mormonism, but it will be so sublimely subtle that it will not be able to be seen as a slam...I said somewhere above, I wish to heck I could remember what they did. THey'll do it again...and I'll see and comment on it.
And yes, IMP...you are SO RIGHT. Remember when the Jeremiah Wright thing came up and Obama denied ever hearing talk like what we heard? And nobody in the media ever said 'But, Barack, if you never heard that horrible anti-American talk ,and if it was such an anomaly for Wright, how come SOMEBODY didn't call and say to you " Holy COW, Jeremiah's unhinged..you won't believe what HE SAID"!!' But, no...we heard and saw the congregation DIG IT...no surprise, no indignation...nada. Just happily dancing up and down, hatin' America as they seem to always do..?
And, yes, he then said he and the Mrs. would be finding a church in DC as soon as they got there.........so far, I think you're right...MAYBE 3 times. OR they say they went to Church at Camp David, which I believe they've only been to twice and who could see if they went to church there or not? SO that's a safe lie.
By the way, I personally don't care if they go to church.......but it's another campaign promise made only to impress and which was a TOTAL LIE.
...well, Mormonism does have this dubious distinction: It's no. 1 in the list of top 10 famous hoaxes.
Fight for Truth
Protestant Voter; are you afraid that Catholics are going to hurt you?
But I'm a fan of Robert Spencer too.
P.V.
http://fuzislippers.wordpress.com/\
Beamish; I think you might learn something there.
Thanks, Mustang.
Afraid that "catholics" are going to hurt "me?
No, most Catholics don't have a clue about history and their own Chruch just as the rest of us don't.
What it looks like may be shaping up is a Fourth Reich in Europe which WOULD bring back the Inquisition. It happened in Poland most recently that when they turned that country from a Protestant country to a Catholic country they reinstated the Office of the Inquisition. That office murdered over Fifty million mostly true Christians over a few centuries. They would reinstate the Inquisition again at the drop of a hat if they could get power. And that's what they were trying to do with the Third Reich and will try to do with the Fourth. I pray they don't succeed but they won't stop trying. And they've been working to undermine all the Protestant nations ever since the Reformation and done an awfully good job of it too, but you'd have to read a LOT to even begin to believe me because all this stuff is suppressed. You have to read OLD books.
Never mind, nobody wants to know this stuff.
P.V.
P.V....I am not fond of the Vatican's legalistic or financial machinations ...not at ALL. And most Catholics I know agree with me.
I totally believe that American Catholics (and MANY in Eruope, too, having lived there myself for approx 5 years) would rise up if any Inquisition talk or plans were even hinted at on the congregational level.
Let me ask you this: I wouldn't label all Protestants as potential killers over the Salem Witch Trials, either. WOuld you?
The Vatican is complicated. And, yes, it does lean liberal. I would say most older and/or middle aged Catholics don't have a clue as to the history of the Church but as far as the younger crowd goes they have more knowledge on the Church, it's history, and documents etc.
Since I get utterly annoyed and offended at all the anti-Catholicism, NO, I wouldn't ever refuse to vote for Mitt Romney because he is a Mormon. We can disagree and believe differently as far as faith or different religions go but having different religious beliefs shouldn't disqualify me or anyone else from voting for Romney or any other person who believes differently than I do. As far as I can tell Romney is a good man.
@PV...
At least many religions went through a Reformation....and the Crusades saved Europe from the islamist hordes...will there be another? Islam has to be stopped....along with it's 7th century heads up their butts.
That's the difference TODAY...PV...we don't practice 7th century barbarism...Islam still does and needs to be...errr..."reformed".
Dear Impertinent,
Only Islam practices barbarism TODAY but the Inquisition WAS barbarism and it lasted centuries much later than the 7th century, was revived in polished technocratic form in the Holocaust and would rise again as soon as the last vestiges of the Protestant Reformation are no longer a threat to them.
"Many" religions did NOT go through a Reformation, ONLY the Catholic Church went through a Reformation as many of its priests recognized that its traditions violate the Bible and left it. Please don't rewrite history. If some Muslims want to leave Islam and reform it similarly, great, bring it on, but unfortunately there is no conflict between their "bible" and their traditions so no basis for such a reformation. Either they come to see that the whole thing is evil and leave it altogether or they're going to have to be fought. Period.
P.V.
PV, I totally understand your points here but know many great Catholics who are believers (and I see redeemed crosses in Catholic churches and had MANY MANY Catholic members of the very large Bible study I was a leader for for many years) so, as much as I don't respect the hierarchy, and they don't either, by the way, I do believe they are Christians and would NEVER EVER kill Protestants! And, let's face it, the Pope would have to enlist a lot of Catholics to do another Inquisition..and I don't think he's got the numbers of willing this time :-)
(praise God)
Yes, there will have to be fighting. GOd forbid.
Thanks for coming by; I really appreciate your input.
The Salem Witch Trials killed something like 19 innocent people and they were opposed and eventually stopped by the Protestant clergy.
The Inquisition lasted centuries, slaughtered fifty million true Christians with a few Jews and others thrown in plus hundreds of witches, it is papal POLICY to kill heretics, it is STILL papal policy and they'll do it again when they get the chance. If it offends many Catholics, great, maybe it would drive many to the truth, but otherwise the Pope will have no trouble assembling a Catholic army from somehwree to do its murdering.
The Inquisition was and is not a momentary hysteria like the Salem witch trials so wake up and learn some history!
P.V.
OFF TOPIC:
Did y'all know ROMNEY WANTS WAR WITH SYRIA AND IRAN?
Yup, Joe Biden said that today...Romney WANTS WAR..get it? Starting the DNC lies(oops) CONVENTION a little early are we, Joey?!
does that freakin' idiot Biden THINK? EVER??
http://news.yahoo.com/biden-romney-wants-war-syria-iran-172932280--election.html
PV! Have you seen the Catholic reaction to the pedophile PRIESTS? You think that reaction of repulsed disgust by probably 99% of Catholics was PRO VATICAN?
How do you think he'll get a billion Catholics to turn into murderers? They're not even pro choice! :-)
I think PV gives Christianity a bad reputation. Sounds almost like a Muslim Extremist.
His Mormonism doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's the actions in upholding liberty for all Americans that matters to me. If the candidate who can do that is Catholic, Mormon or Atheist is irrelevant.
Axelrod really doesn't have much to smear Romney with. Mitt's pretty squeaky clean. Though part of me couldn't blame them much if they tried...after the juvenile lies of Obama being a Muslim - or 'hating America' and other such tripe...it's clear to all that there is no decorum left in politics.
I don't have a problem with Mormon's themselves. However, I do have a problem with Mormonism. There are real problems with their church, but as Jesus said, "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's". To me, this means that we keep government and church separate.
This does not mean that Christians should not take part in government with their faith as their guide. It simply means that government has its purpose.
Mitt Romney is not a Christian. That has nothing to do with his ability to govern and make executive decisions. As a matter of fact, his executive skills are far and away better than even most CEO's in the country. Obama is not even on the same level.
This is the man we need in the White House.
Nobody with any brain in their head cares about Mitt Romney,'s faith. . But, this shows how desperate the libtards are to find fault with something about Mitt Romney. ..
I'll call your Mormon and raise you one Muslim, three Black Panthers, and one Harry Reid!.
@PV:
Dear PV:
"Only Islam practices barbarism TODAY but the Inquisition WAS barbarism..."
Of course they do and of course they did. Given the times mankind was pretty ignorant and superstitious 500 years ago.
Problem is I live in todays world and not the 7th century like muslims do...I don't care what they did then....I care what they do and don't do now...
I know....it's all Bush's fault.
Since "the Inquisition" and a certain number ("fifty million") keeps getting bandied about without substantial elaboration or explanation as if the details of this were commonly known and agreed upon by all, I am going to take the bait and contribute some historical facts, easily verified by anyone. This comment will be presented in two parts because of its length.
1. There was not one Inquisition that was "THE Inquisition". There were several Inquistions.
2. If the word alone does not make it obvious, the Inquisition was not about killing heretics. It was about determining whether someone accused of heresy was guilty of it.
3. "The Church", that is, the institution founded by Christ and placed by Him under the authority of His apostles and their successors, and commissioned by Him to preach the gospel and baptize people of all nations in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit - the Body of Christ anhd His unblemished Bride, charged with bringing Christ to the world, did not put heretics to death. Church, qua Church, did not do this.
4. Whenever and wherever convicted heretics were executed it was because heresy was a capital crime under the authority of the civil government in that nation at that time.
End of Part 1 of 2
Part 2 of 2
5. Heresy was a capital crime because the various states and human governments passed laws under their own authority granted by God to make it so.
6. The Church, again, qua Church, as an institution, did not authorize those heads of state to make heresy a capital crime. They already had that authority, and the Church merely recognized it. Those states were confessional states - they had committed to a Catholic identity and made heresy a secular crime and not merely a sin.
7. The Church had no authority to forbid those states and human governments from making heresy a capital crime even if there had been a will to do so. The Church still does not have this authority. God did not give it to Her. He gave the authority to the human rulers to pass the laws necessary for the care of their community and enforce them as they saw fit.
8. The Church's involvement in this process is simply this (and this is all that each and every one of the Inquisitions ever were): The Church and only the Church has the authority to determine whether someone accused of heresy is guilty of it. The civil governments have no authority or competence to do so. So the Church insisted that if heresy was to be a crime, it (the Church) had to be officially involved in the determining of an individual's guilt. That is the extent of the Church's involvement --qua Church-- in this sad chapter of Western civilization. The Church, qua Church, was not involved in the determination of what constituted an appropriate penalty for the civil crime of heresy for any state or human government submitted to Her authority.
9. Those convicted of heresy were, with very few exceptions, not true Christians. Unrepentant heretics refused to submit to the authority of the Church Christ founded in spite of His commandment that those who believe in Him and love Him will believe all of the Church's teachings and submit to Her Christ-given authority, and that obstinate attitude is incompatible with true Christianity.
Mormonism is not only a false religion, as is Catholicism, an idolatry that God cannot honor (although He may honor individual Catholics and Mormons because of their good character), but both religions have ulterior motives that would surface to the detriment of the nation if they ever get real power.
So where in the Bible does it say God may honor individuals because of their good character?
As far a the the Holocaust being a Vatican plot, I think that pretty much tells us we're dealing with an unstable person.
"So where in the Bible does it say God may honor individuals because of their good character?"
Excellent point, SF.
There has been recent 'information' re the holocaust and the Vatican and Hitler; I don't take it seriously and, as I said above, I can't imagine a billion Catholics all of a sudden going after Protestants with pitch forks!
I also don't see what this has to do with Romney's Mormonism.
Kevin, that is all VERY interesting and I appreciate your effort. I read the whole thing and feel like I'm much better informed on that subject now. Thanks very much.
RADICAL REDNECK "I'll call your Mormon and raise you one Muslim, three Black Panthers, and one Harry Reid!." GOOD ONE! You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.. :-)
CONSTITUTIONAL INSURGENT: That's why Axelrod's sending out the word to use terms like WEIRD for Romney, Eastwood, etc...it's so much easier to let that word hang in voters' minds than to actually attack people not easy to attack, isn't it.
LOUIS...In a way, yes, but there's been a ton of info re the holocaust and the vatican and some of it's pretty compelling, I have to agree.
My point is that it would take a LOT to rile good Catholics up in to killing anybody these days. And Catholics THEN wouldn't have killed Jews, either, any more than most Germans would have (a whole different subject I'm WAY WAY WAY more versed on than the vatican/holocaust thing)
I'm sure PV is a good Christian but he has concerns and I'm glad he can air them here, hear other viewpoints, we can hear him, and consider his, too. it's a good thing.
I wish we could all be in my living room talking about all of this, don't you all??
"That's why Axelrod's sending out the word to use terms like WEIRD for Romney, Eastwood, etc...it's so much easier to let that word hang in voters' minds than to actually attack people not easy to attack, isn't it."
Point taken Z, and there is no doubt some truth behind it...but any subliminal or covert assault on Romney's Mormonism is just as despicable as assault's on Obama religion or his 'Americanism' [for lack of a better word].
If both parties would simply speak to the issues and not spend the overwhelming amount of time and effort in personality based offensive campaigns of dubious truth.....eh, who am I kidding...it's the nature of politics I suppose.
Compare the two men...Romney, Obama.
Consider the belief system of each, when it comes to morality, and equal justice.
Which one practices true benevolence toward others, and which one caters to only select groups.?
Which one chooses death for innocent babies, and voted to allow them to die without comfort or compassion if they should survive the slaughter of an abortion?
Which one makes any allowance possible toward a religious group that advocates annihilation of all Christians and Jews, and anyone else who doesn't believe as they do, and refuses to call them terrorists even when they shout praises to their god while committing unspeakable atrocities?
Which one believes in working for what one has, and taking pride in the accomplishment of it, rather than blaming the failure of it on anyone, and everyone, other than oneself?
Which one believes in the dignity of all citizens, including women, and which one believes that all of us should pay for the lifestyles of some of them, such as paying for their contraceptives, or abortions if the contraception is not used, or doesn't work, and they decide they don't want the responsibility of a child?
I could go on, and on, but there is no need, because the answer is so obvious, anyway. Why anyone would deliberately vote for someone, again, who has already done more damage to the country than will probably ever be repaired, is beyond comprehension.
As long as the person has integrity, and is of good character, and has the best interests of all of the citizens of the country at heart, I don't care what his religious beliefs are, as long as they don't infringe upon mine...and that's the one who will receive my vote.
And by the way...I don't give a hoot what color they are, either, just in case anyone is wondering about that!
So, no, Mitt Romney's Mormonism doesn't bother me!
Const. Insurg...I couldn't agree with you more.
NOBODY should slam anybody's faith...he's not running for Pastor in Chief, either.
I only meant that these terms like WEIRD will be used as code words......and they stick in peoples' heads. I suppose the Left'd call Mormons WEIRD if they had the guts....because I"m quite sure they're not going to get many Mormons voting for Obama.
They may risk it, but I doubt they will.
JAN...you're the BOMB!! Thanks for that fantastic sentiment...AMEN to it all :-) xxx
Z:
How big is your living Room?
Ed. Not that big :-)
I was waiting for that comment from SOMEONE !!!
If both parties would simply speak to the issues and not spend the overwhelming amount of time and effort in personality based offensive campaigns of dubious truth.....eh, who am I kidding...it's the nature of politics I suppose.
I sense frustration, but I think the notion that we can all just be friends is simplistic. For example, it was easy for people to claim Senator McCarthy was mentally disturbed until that point in which government employees were revealed as communist agents —which was what McCarthy was attempting to discover all along. Nor were the hordes of Hollywood stars, directors, and producers a figment of McCarthy’s imagination. What made Alger Hiss a communist was not who he voted for; it was what he believed in. And what he believed in was an un-American ideology harmful to free market capitalism, which contradicts our founding principles, and which seeks to subjugate our free citizens to the will of the state. This is how we define Socialism, which is a pathway to global communism.
Does this matter as we examine who was involved in the creation of the UN, what the UN has transformed itself into, how much of America’s tax money should go to a fundamentally flawed “globalist” organization? It mattered when our troops were on the ground in Korea while communists in the Truman administration were providing information to the Soviets who passed it along to the Chinese. How did that war turn out again?
And if it happens that any of our politicians are socialists, or communists, or neo-communists, or progressives … label them as you will, how is it wrong to suggest this does matter within the framework of our public discourse? Or shall we all just sit down and shut up?
His theology is totally wrong. His politics are 95% right.
I'll take Romney, if you don't mind.
My dear Jack Whyte;
Would you get us OUT of the United Nations? I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
Joe...ME? MIND? you're kidding, right? :-)
A man is what he DOES -- not what he SAYS he "believes."
-------
You said it Freethinker.
Skip out of Vietnam.
Start your venture capital business with death squad money.
Enrich yourself by producing nothing.
Pass out huge sums of government money to your crook friends in Utah during the Olympics.
Yeah all the lights are on in this guy's moral house and nobodies home.
It bothers me that he's nothing but another whitened sepulcher. We've seen enough of these stiff for several decades.
Joe, why don't you tell the class what the right theology is.
4. Whenever and wherever convicted heretics were executed it was because heresy was a capital crime under the authority of the civil government in that nation at that time.
-----
Come on Kevin, don't try to throw the changeup.
The Church relied on the secular criminal code to do its dirty work. One hand washed the other.
It is problematic that Mormons are works oriented
---------
Without works you are an empty soul just carrying on a meaningless internal conversation. You believe nothing.
You are what you do.
Perhaps if duhkkky read the whole Bible instead of just the Sermon on the Mount .......but I'm not holding my breath. And wasn't that the Catholic church....ever read Foxes Book of Martyrs? I didn't think so.
Romney doesn't take a salary for doing the Olympic job or for serving as Governor of Taxachusetts, serves as an unpaid clergy member, in total over 28 years of service and youre going to suggest he didn't do enough duhkkster? Its a good thing serving lunch to those Occupier Scums was enough to whitewash your sepulchre
You are what you do.
Biblicallly what you (works) do does not save you Ephesians 2:8,9 Titus 3:5,6
But works are a consequence of that saving
Currently, it's a choice between muslim and Morman if that's one's focus.
Did I mention that he gave hos entire inheritance to charity?
Ducky, if you study the Bible, you'll better understand 'works' are not what's the final importance...that's very clear throughout.
that's the "right theology"...there is no other Word of God but the Bible.
Yes, I know you've read it. Maybe another time through would help you.
studying it with others is helpful, too.
It's a trap to decide for yourself that WORKS, or HOW GOOD YOU ARE matter.
oops..ELBRO commented practically what I just said; I hadn't read down.
Thanks, Elbro.
Kid! :-)
Elbro....if you didn't mention it, don't worry..the media's trying to paint him as the guy who was given his money, too.
Well Lord knows who he had to take it from first Z. /sarcasm
Silverfiddle:
God does honor individuals who live according to His laws no matter what their religion. That's what good "character" means. Pretty standard observation I would think. But where in the Bible? Honor your father and mother will give you long life. Obey Wisdom in the Proverbs and you will have good health. That's God honoring good character. They aren't saved, but they can have a good life in this world. Not worth a whole lot in the end but as far as Presidential candidates go it's a good qualification.
Interesting that you attack the person as "unstable" rather than the argument itself, clever tactic there. There is plenty of evidence for the Vatican's involvement in the Holocaust although a lot of it has been intentionally obscured. The Pope eulogized Hitler upon his death as a true Son of the Church who was defending Christianity. This stuff is documentable. There are quotes from Hitler that show that he made use of the methods of the Inquisition in planning his killing program. The yellow star used by the Nazis to identify the Jews was first used by the Inquisition -- just one small point.
I find that comment, Z, about a billion Catholics with pitchforks suddenly going after Protestants to be ignorant in the extreme and a misrepresentation of what I've been saying. The IRA is a case where the papacy has roused them against the Protestants, but for the most part ordinary Catholics have no clue as I've said here already. It's the papacy supported by the Jesuits that is out to kill infidels and heretics as POLICY. It wouldn't be some spontaneous uprising.
I'll try to avoid coming by here again.
Protestant Voter
PV..
it is not a misrepresentation of what you are saying unless you feel that we will be nuked by Catholics instead of pitchforked.
I mean ABSOLUTELY no disrespect but which Pope eulogized Hitler that way? TOday's Pope? I don't think so.
My family descent is Armenian; I know about holocausts, PV. Hitler used the Armenian genocide as a great example of people knowing and doing nothing. I call the Turks murdering 1.5 million Armenians in the very early 20th century the 'low tech' holocaust, the German was the 'high tech' holocaust.
I'm not sure anybody can prove that the Pope's planning to hurt Protestants in any way and I don't believe you can say these things and expect people to believe them.
If it's not going to be spontaneous, how IS it going to be? How would you imagine Catholics killing others on the advice of the Papacy?
and, by the way, I'm anything but ignorant.
If you feel you must leave, I will bid you goodbye and hope you change your mind. This is a good place to discuss things and I was not teasing you about pitchforks, I only used it as a probably overly simplified way of saying "this sounds a little far fetched to me."
Hitler despised the Protestant church and once finished with the official state church, planned to purge Germany of all Christians.
Well I was going to comment about my best friend growing up who was Mormon and then found that someone named PV suddenly turned this into a thread full of judging those who they deem to be Christian and those they have deigned to be evil,
I was raised Catholic and my best friend was Mormon.
Since I went to public school, I thought Catholics were a tiny minority and listened to kids tell me how I worshipped statues. I would imagine my Mormon friend heard the same judgmental insults as I did.
I had my own issues with the Catholic church, but I find people like PV to be the epitome of hypocrisy. They claim only they know who will enter the kingdom of heaven because they have studied history and the papacy.
More than any other passage in the Bible, I believe that we should judge not.
I'm content to let the good Lord make that judgment , PV can explain his hatred when that day comes.
I'm back to give some evidence, but will also answer a few posts.
I didn't "turn" this thread into anything; I was responding to others' comments and challenges, perhaps not a good idea but that's the way it went.
The Mormon Church is just as dangerous as Rome and Islam when it comes to doctrine that seeks world domination, they've just never been big enough yet to do much.
I am not talking about individual Catholics or individual Mormons, I'm talking about doctrine at the higher levels. That's why I started out saying Romney could possibly be the best choice for President because individual Mormons aren't the problem. HOWEVER, with their very rich church backing them and influencing them, in a sense even controlling them, you don't want to trust any individual too far. Kennedy was a good President although a Catholic. It can happen. But as a policy, it's not a good idea to vote for members of a church that wants to run the world.
The picture of a billion Catholics with pitchforks missed the point and so does your latest remark. I don't expect anyone to believe me, I just expect to be given the benefit of the doubt when I say there is evidence about these things that most people are ignorant of. Including me until recently. Believe me there is proof. It just takes time to get it together and a comment board is not usually the most patient place to try to get it together.
Here's a book to start with online for instance: The Vatican's Holocaust by Avro Manhattan:
http://www.reformation.org/holocaus.html
And here's some more -- you'll have to look up the links:
Book: The Jesuit Conspiracy by Jacopo Leone
Book: Secret History of the Jesuits, Edmond Paris
Book Online: Walter Walsh, Secret History of the Oxford Movement (1898)
Book: Papal Power, Henry T. Hudson
Book: Ecclesiastical Megalomania, John W Robbins
Book: Geese in their Hoods, Charles Spurgeon (one of many sources)
Book Online: J A Wylie History of Protestantism
European Institute for Protestant Studies
The Berean Beacon, ex-priest Richard Bennett's website
Pro Gospel, ex-Catholic Mike Gendron's website
Book online: ex-priest Charles Chiniquy, 50 Years in the "Church" of Rome
Protestant Voter
Rita: I will explain my "hatred" right now. You sound like a leftist bandying that kind of politically correct jargong around. But then conservatives are sounding more and more leftist to my ear these days so I guess that's to be expected.
What I HATE, is evil influences in this world, as we all should. Perhaps you love evil. Go join the leftists then.
P.V.
Sorry, Manhattan's book is about Croatia. That's interesting too but I meant to find a reference to Hitler's Holocaust.
Here is some online information at least:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html
The Pope who eulogized Hitler as a "true son of the Church" was Pius XII, the one who presided during the war, and helped thousands of Nazi war criminals to escape.
Been looking for the quote. It's probably in one of the books listed, but I can't find it online. Heard it many times.
Here's another link on the same subject:
http://one-evil.org/acts_holocaust/acts_vatican_holocaust.htm
Naturally Rome works hard to keep this information suppressed so you have to go lo9oking for it but there is a TON of it out there if you do go looking.
P.V.
Anonymous said...
Again I have to make a correction. Not taking enough time to look things up.
Ignore second link in above post, it's to some weird website that looked OK at first glance. It's not.
Again: Rome works to suppress this sort of information. This is why you cannot trust a site like Wikipedia. They will "dispute" anything that makes them look bad, and you can be sure there are Jesuits assigned to produce as much disinformation as possible at such sites. Yes, it's a conspiracy theory, that's because there really IS a conspiracy. I didn't believe in such things myself at one time. Read the OLD books, generally speaking they are the most trustworthy.
I give this information as a public service. Jews need to know who their real enemy is. It was never Christians it was always Catholicism, and Catholicism is NOT Christian. NEVER WAS. The Reformers -- Luther, Calvin, all the rest of them most of whom had been Catholic priests after all --knew the papacy is ANTICHRIST. WE'VE FORGOTTEN HISTORY THAT PEOPLE USED TO KNOW.
Yes, some Catholics MAY be Christians, but if they are they should get out of that evil excuse for a church. This is a public service for Catholics too. They need to know the truth just as all the rest of us do.
This idiotic political correctness that wants us to be nicey nice to members of antichrist churches is only contributing to the evils conservatives think they are fighting.
P.V.
FOUND IT.
In the book, The Secret History of the Jesuits by Edmond Paris in the chapter The Gestapo and the Company of Jesus:
"Franco, Knight of the Order of Christ, expressly confirmed the collusion between the Vatican and the Nazis. According to Reforme, this is what the press of the Spanish dictator (Franco) published on the 3rd of May 1945, the day of Hitler's death:
"'Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christyianity. It is therefore understandable that words cannot be found to lament over his death, when so many wree found to exalt his life. Over his mortal remains stands his victorious moral figure. With the palm of the
martyr, God gives Hitler the laurels of Victory.'
"This funeral oration of the Nazi chief, a challenge to the victorious allies, is voiced by the Holy See itself, under the cover of Franco's press. It is a communique of the Vatican given via Madrid. ...
"'I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits,' said Hitler ... 'Until now there has never been anything more grandiose on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic Church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party ... I am founding an Order ... we will raise up a youth which will make the world tremble ...'
"Another highly placed hitlerian, Walter Schellenberg, former chief of the German counter-espionage, completed this confidence from the Fuhrer, after the war: 'The S.S. organization had been constituted, by Himmler, according to the principles of the Jesuits' Order.... the whole structure of the direction was a close imitation of the Catholic Church's hierarchical order ...'"
I already mentioned that the yellow star the Nazis forced the Jews to wear had been invented by the Inquisition. Also the Jewish ghettos were an invention of the Inquisition.
Hope this information opens some eyes. This is just the tip of the iceberg too. Christians need to wake up and learn some history.
P.V.
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