Monday, June 10, 2013

Edwards Snowden....Hero or Traitor?

Is Edward Joseph Snowden a hero or traitor?

When Dianne Feinstein is upset about his having leaked NSA secrets about the White House's looking into the records of average Americans,  I understand.  Sort of.  She's a White House protector.

When someone I admire greatly,  House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers (R-Mich), has "harsh words" for the leaker, I get worried because I'd have thought the last thing a person like Rogers would do is not be upset over (possibly illegal, too-widespread) government snooping.

When Director of National Intelligence James Clapper says these leaks were incredibly dangerous, I'm not sure if I agree or not because I don't trust the motivations of many of Obama's appointees, sadly.

But when I heard that Snowden himself had the guts to come forward that it was HE who thought that the government shouldn't be snooping into our Verizon phone records, etc., etc.,I thought "He's a hero because this is a questionable activity and he could go to jail for having rung the bell on them."

Help me out here;  let me know what you think and why.  I wish I could have seen the morning shows as I hear they talked about this...?

NOW WATCH THE VIDEO AT THE GUARDIAN...AN EXCELLENT INTERVIEW WITH SNOWDEN (the questions of which I suspect he, himself, wrote, but I would have done the same thing);  Was he too young, at 29, to have this authority and is naive?  Is he smart enough to see a terrible threat to our freedoms and sacrificial enough to set himself up for such big trouble in his hopes of stopping questionable surveillance that risks the liberty of millions of Americans?   THE VIDEO ANSWERS SOME OF THAT, I THINK.   I hope you watch it.  You won't be sorry.  I was rather stunned by it.   I fear for us that this guy who's such an expert on our spy industry has gone to China for, ostensibly, safety.

While this isn't political, I can't help wondering where his politics lie.  I'd SO MUCH like to know.

So...Edward Snowden:  Hero or traitor?.............or something in between?

Thanks,
Z


geeeeeeZ

71 comments:

Always On Watch said...

I'm not sure that we know enough about Snowden and his motives to decide yet if he's a hero or a traitor. I'm leaning toward the former, but a lot of people, including bloggers whom I regard highly, are skeptical.

Always On Watch said...

Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum? Last paragraph from that link:

There’s no question that the United States has stronger protections for free speech and the rule of law than repressive regimes like China or Iran. But it’s also clear that our courts defend constitutional rights less zealously today than they did in Ellsberg’s day. Snowden wasn’t crazy to question whether he’d be treated fairly by the American justice system.

Always On Watch said...


“When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty.” ― Thomas Jefferson

FrogBurger said...

He's a courageous man in my books. Hero is a big word to use so I don't want to cheapen it. But the fact that the gov stores data about everything about us needs to be talked about. It's one thing to pick up words in conversation, it's another thing to build a profile of every citizen. That's what the Stasi would do. So I'm glad he did it.

Ed Bonderenka said...

The terms for treason were bandied last night as reasons for charging him, that he had aided and abetted the enemy, but who is "the enemy" if we are not at war (as Obama maintains)?
It was said that he had defected to China (he's holed up in Hong Kong).
If what we are doing is legal, then "the enemy" should have assumed we were doing it.
On the radio this morning (Bennett) the NSA issue was raised.
I was struck that we are not allowed to profile in airports, at immigration, etc.
So how do we filter through all the phone records to look for patterns.
I asked on air about this, if we're looking at names of phone records, are we looking at people named Awqueeri from Dearborn calling another Arabic sounding name, or are we looking at someone named Bachmann calling someone named Rand?
It seemed to go over their head and I did not get an opportunity to press the point.
Which domestic terrorists are the government going after, Al-Quaeda or Tea Party?

FrogBurger said...

Which domestic terrorists are the government going after, Al-Quaeda or Tea Party?

They're setting up the foundations of a global system to monitor and profile people. It doesn't matter who the terrorists are. It's long term. I have the gut feeling that people on top and some intellectuals make the assumptions that resources are limited on this planet and that people will have to be controlled to manage those resources peacefully, while the elite can benefit from most of the resources. Maybe I'm paranoid or cynical but with the resurgence of Malthus-like thoughts, I woudn't be surprised.

Plus some people strongly think China's the model of the future.

Always On Watch said...

Possibly of interest:

NSA Leaker Brought His Story to the Washington Post First, Says Washington Post [Updated]

There may be more layers.

Mustang said...

The problem is that our government is at cross-purposes with the people. I well understand the need for security classifications of information and I have always assumed that the government operates within the boundary of the United States Constitution. What we have discovered is that the government is not of the people at all. We have learned that government has become far too large, far to powerful, ever to bend on its knee to the will of the people.

I cannot say whether Snowden is a patriot or a traitor. It must depend on his intent. Yet, this has nothing whatever to do with the “damage” experts tell us was caused by Snowden’s disclosure. It does not seem to make much sense, however, that the government can claim “significant damage” when at the same time, there was never anything for “normal citizens” to worry about in the mining of this data.

I will simply note that the Fourth Amendment talks about the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures and that no warrant may be issued except upon probable cause. The Fourth Amendment does not offer a waiver to the government based on national security. I do understand, however, that the government has come to believe that the Constitution says what the government says it says. After all, this is a president who thinks the Constitution is outdated … and only HE has the keys to the kingdom.

Sam Huntington said...

Do I understand this correctly? Bill Clinton and Al Gore may conspire to transfer top-secret information about our submarine technology to China in exchange for $400,000.00 in campaign donations to the Democratic National Convention, but Edward Snowden may not expose the existence of the government’s illegal program? Is this one of those, “Don’t do as I do, Do as I say” caveats?

Louis H. said...

I think Snowden is a hero, so I think the government will track him down and punish him. This government doesn’t want any heroes. With Obama as king, there is no room left over for American heroes.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

This is a tough question to answer. As a civil libertarian, I like nothing more than the lies and obfuscations over domestic surveillance of successive Administrations, to come to light.

But being a cleared contractor in that arena, I can also attest that Snowden willfully violated a ream of non-disclosure agreements, and depending on his specific read-ons...may have disclosed information beyond the scope of what he thought he was providing, to the Guardian. This meets the definition of treason.

I'm currently 'deployed' to Hawaii, and work just down the road from Snowden's former facility....and on a team almost wholly staffed by Booze contractors [I am not an employee of BAH]. Should be some interesting water cooler talk this morning.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

Mustang - "It does not seem to make much sense, however, that the government can claim “significant damage” when at the same time, there was never anything for “normal citizens” to worry about in the mining of this data."

It also doesn't makes sense that DNI Clapper and NSA Chief Keith Alexander will very likely not face indictment for repeatedly lying to the American public and Congress.

Joe said...

He is a hero in my book. If he's even half right, it is dire, indeed.

It is time to rip the power from the hands of the government and to reign it in.

Snowden is a dead man walking.

FrogBurger said...

It's funny how people whine when Facebook collects their data for advertising. Yet all my friends don't say anything about this.

FrogBurger said...

CI, you're right on the legal aspect. But what's funny is that Snowden is a traitor for breaking the law and an NDA but Holden is still around after illegally monitoring reporters.

Z said...

There was a former DoD guy,Mike Barrett, on TV just now.
He's of the mind that this surveillance sounds bad but is not. He said we need to have records in case something happens so the experts can "mine" and see what's up.
If something happens, and we find out who did it, we can mine his information to see what connections he has, etc...finding other terrorists-in-waiting, etc.

Snowden has made it pretty clear, I thought, that he's not really 'defected' but is there in case he gets picked up by our gov't, apparently.

FrogBurger, good point about Facebook.

Will read all your comments from work if I have a minute. Thanks...and please present more good information so we can consider this more completely.

Z said...

I just heard Snowden's apparently checked out of his hotel in China and is looking for another country for asylum "possibly Iceland"

what a story this will be for the world "the great America has a guy who has to get asylum to protect him from his government arresting him after he told citizens that they're being spied on".

Z said...

Also..before I run to work:

Is the Zimmerman case coverage going to trump all these far more important situations like the AP scandal(which is pretty much gone now, have you noticed?), Benghazi, or the NSA?

FrogBurger said...

If something happens, and we find out who did it, we can mine his information to see what connections he has, etc...finding other terrorists-in-waiting, etc.

So we basically collect data in advance in case someone commits a crime. So our gov assumes we are potential criminals.

What if someone, in the gov, adds a few data elements to my file? How does one prove it's falsified information. For example, what if someone adds a bit of child pornography to web logs that are gathered for a citizen?!?

Some people don't realize the danger of this.

FrogBurger said...

I was just thinking. Basically what this means is that our gov can do identify theft on us and we have no recourse whatsoever. Where are the regulations for this?

If they want to store information on us, we should have access to that information 24/7 so we can claim any wrongdoings right away.

I'm really pissed off when I think about the implications of this. Once again, the government is above the law.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

FB - Unfortunately, this is just like National Security Letters. You'll never be apprised that the .Gov has one with your name on it, and you can never sue, because you can't prove the above.

FrogBurger said...

That's why it needs to chance, CI. We have the rights to know what the gov is collecting on us. We're not criminals.

Z said...

ONE more thing before I LEAVE for work!

Are we to keep no information on anybody? Ever?

And what a sad thing that we have to even think they'd spy on a phone conversation between me and my sister about a recipe or her upcoming grandchild's birth.

Z said...

Frog: how do they do let us know?
You mean in general "your phone calls are being collected.." ?

FrogBurger said...

Z, they store all data. When Obama says they only collect numbers, it's a lie. They can't do any intelligence if that's what they do. They need content. And they need to store it if they have to go to court.

So there ought to be transparency. If they have the technology to do this, I'm sure they'd have the technology to create a website that gives you the information they collect on you. [Add sarcasm here]

FrogBurger said...

Plus you know what? My taxes pay for this data collection. So the minimum they can do is show me what I'm paying for when I'm not doing anything wrong.

Always On Watch said...

What are we to make of Snowden's purported resumé?

• Raised in Elizabeth City, North Carolina and later moved to Maryland.

• Attended a community college, but never completed his coursework and never graduated from high school.

• 2003-2004: U.S. Army, discharged after training accident

• 2005: NSA, Security Guard, University of Maryland.

• 2006: CIA, IT security.

• 2007-2009: CIA, diplomatic cover, Switzerland.

• 2009-2013: NSA Contractor, Dell and later Booz Allen Hamilton.

• Salary: around $200,000.

What? Seriously? So a guy who never even graduated from high school (he later reportedly earned a G.E.D.) and started his professional career as a security guard, got hired by a couple of defense contractors and -- at age 29 -- was making $200K a year?

Always On Watch said...

Relevant or now, when I look at the photo of Snowden, the name "Jay Carney" pops into my head. Just sayin'.

Ducky's here said...

@CI --- But being a cleared contractor in that arena

-----
And make absolutely NO mistake about it. A good deal of the impetus behind these "programs" is to keep folks like you well paid and insure that the your employer rakes it in.

The government contractor grifters are up to their eyeballs in this deceit.

FrogBurger said...

What? Seriously? So a guy who never even graduated from high school (he later reportedly earned a G.E.D.) and started his professional career as a security guard, got hired by a couple of defense contractors and -- at age 29 -- was making $200K a year?

It's not knowing the world of IT. You can be a computer geek or genius, and be a loser in school. Steve Jobs dropped out of college. You have to understand the mindset of those people. I've got a bit of it. We dislike authority and structure. Schools are all about authority and structure. So failing there doesn't mean you can't be a whiz.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

Ducky - "The government contractor grifters are up to their eyeballs in this deceit."

Be that as it may, the contractor pool is also heavily comprised of experienced and dedicated operators and analysts who are continuing to serve their nation.

Ed Bonderenka said...

“Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. "
First, notice that war "against them" is the states (plural) as opposed to the Federal Government (singular).It could be argued they are the same, but I found it interesting from an art 10 point of view.
Did Snowden wage war? Do we have declared enemies?

Ducky's here said...

CI, this isn't much different than the boondoggle known as "The War on Drugs" (thanks Reagan).

The surveillance has its origins in supposedly keeping the peeps safe from weed (how's that worked out?).

It has developed in the same fashion. One huge boondoggle with a lot of money pissed away. As the programs become more bloated and inept the apparatchiks keep upping the scare factor.

Where has the right been? Getting all huffy about someone receiving food stamps.

The right wing has been asleep ever since the 80's and I find there sudden outrage ironic.

conservativesonfire said...

I'm with Mustang on this.

Mustang said...

I have absolutely no problem with the government identifying a suspected terrorist, going to a judge with a sworn affidavit, convincing him or her that the government has probable cause for concern that this specific person intends harm to the innocent, and then proceeding with their investigation within the limits of the law.

That is not what Clapper is doing, however. The government went to a FISA judge who is a lickspittle of the federal government, who authorized the mining of HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of data on private citizens NOT suspected of anything, in case … what?

I do not think we need a program or the latest version of Government for Dummies to tell us what is really going on here. Government isn’t trustworthy.

Sam Huntington said...

That’s right, Ducky … change the narrative. I don’t recall the government doing so much mining to find out where you hide your stash. I’ll only say that the war on drugs was designed to prevent happening what apparently has happened to you. Your brain is fried. And look how pliable you are since your brain turned to mush.

FrogBurger said...

CI, this isn't much different than the boondoggle known as "The War on Drugs" (thanks Reagan).

This comparison shows how little intellect you have. Keeping data on citizens from phone calls to Facebook to purchases, with the assumptions that electronic data are valid in court is a different story from the war on drugs in its potential consequences and ramifications.



Robert Sinclair said...

I am far less worried about Edward Snowden than I am about the United States government. I also say that anyone who disagrees with this statement deserves the kind of US government Dems and Reps wish to force down our throat.

Impertinent said...

I am not a dictator...

Because...a dictator would seize the press and have them bury any unfavorable story and write puff pieces about him.

Because...a dictator would send the government's agents to harass, intimidate and punish anyone who dared to write a negative story.

Because...a dictator would send the government's revenue agents to harass, intimidate and investigate citizen's tax filings.

Because...a dictator would send the government's NSA agents to seize and investigate citizen's phone records, conversations and calling habits.

Z said...

Ducky, remind us: how is Snowden's inflated paycheck keeping "the likes of us" well paid? :-)

As for Reagan...don't you just hate it when someone tries to stop the drug problem?


Robert, you have a point there, that's for sure..

Mustang, they say it can be difficult to get judges to act in time...and , as you know, timing is important.
Maybe we should have certain judges on call like MDs are for us...someone who can always quickly see and act on a warrant?

Bob said...

A lot of great comments. Thanks, folks.

With the exception that we have a whistle-blower, this whole subject is nothing new. We have known for years that the Feds were mining our telephone call records for patterns and connections. There were press reports several years ago about the Feds having equipment installed in an ATT main switch facility for just this purpose. That was before the last round of legislation renewing the FISA stuff.

The Electronic Freedom Frontier Foundation ( https://www.eff.org/ ) has been fighting this kind of government intervention since 1990. Go to the web site to see what has been going on.

As far as a telephone company was concerned, the call records were their property, similar to your credit card bills. Like VISA, they have to generate these records in the course of business, and have the right to analyze those records for their purposes. The problem comes when they release those call records to others.

The Telco may own the call records, but I believe that you have an ownership claim as far as the records are considered personal and private information.

In the case of the Federal Government being allowed to use call records for security purposes, I endorse this idea. However, it is discomfiting to think that they have not only access to call records, but also to shopping information, and other private data.

I don't trust the good intentions of the government, especially the current administration with their record of prevarication and deception.

Mr Johnson has broken the law, and needs to be judged by a jury of his peers. I would like to be on that jury to make sure things are presented fairly.

He may be considered a hero, but like anyone else. When you make a choice, you have to face the consequences.

Bob said...

OOPS!

Electronic Frontier Foundation

Pris said...

Here's the problem.

The administration, DHS, seem to have made the Tea Parties an enemy even though there is not a scintilla of evidence that they're anything other than being against control by the Govt. The Tea Parties have committed no violence or crimes.
They disagree with the left, which is our right to do so.

Furthermore, since the IRS has singled them out, it seems to me, there is probably a data bank filled with Tea Party phone, and email records.

However the Muslim Brotherhood seems to be acceptable to this administration.

We had a warning from Russia about a terrorist attack, and it was ignored. The danger in Benghazi was ignored.

My point is, if we have an administration who implies who the enemy is, even if it isn't, this is the problem. Abuse of the Patriot Act, is the problem.

I think Snowden is courageous, and while he broke the law, and his oath, he abided by the Constitution. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose, so I have to believe he feels he did the right thing.

BTW, terrorists have known about the Patriot Act for years. This is no news to them. My gosh, it was reported on by the press, when it was passed!

FreeThinke said...

MY SNAP JUDGMENT:

Normally, I would be dead set against any American who wasn't strictly on "OUR SIDE," but when when "our side" isn't really ON "our side" anymore, I feel we ought to hail anyone who dares to expose the hideous fraud which administers "our" affairs in ways contrary to "our" best interests as a HERO.

That said, Ed Snowden's prison pallor and nerdy, geeky personality (sort of like that of Jack Loo!) marks him as a loser -- no one I'd want to meet for lunch or dinner.

I admit this is just a snap judgment on my part based on very little reading -- and as always in matters of this sort, "it all depends on who ox is being gored," -- I guess. I STILL hate Daniel Ellsberg's effin guts, but I still BELIEVED IN my country in those bygone days. Sadly, I no longer do, and if there were still a "New World" to escape to, I'd go there in a heartbeat.

Elmers Brother said...

duhkkky.....the update on the last post....you lose...eat crow

Impertinent said...

@Pris:

You just need a president convinced that his political opponents are not only incorrect, but positively dangerous.

In his last campaighn..Oleaker told his loons..."Know your enemies"...That's right...they bring a knife you bring a gun"!

He...this community organizer knows nothing but dirty, underhanded slimy Chicago methods of intimidation and lies.

And he truly believes...along with the help from his adoring press....that half of us...are his enemies.

When a sumbag murderer / terrorist like his friend Bill Ayers can say that he thinks that 25,000,000 Americans would have to be eliminated so that the left can have this country....he wasn't talking about his fellow leftists.

We are now...without a shed of doubt...no different than China, Venezuela, Nicaragua or any other leftist crap hole that despises its...OPPOSITION.

Kid said...

IMP, you got that right. How many know the TSA can strip search you on the Highway for no F reason. Gooombye Constitution. Nice Knowin Ya! It is ALREADY gone.

Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but All cell calls are digitized. Meaning voice is converted to digital data and all of it is stored and searchable. I'd say everything is digitized. I find it amazing anyone can commit a crime and get away with it. It must boil down to how much effort they want to put in over perp killing perp B in low income area C. They don't care, but send a letter to some butthead like obama or bloomie with ricin in it, and watch how fast they zero in on you.

Kid said...

And how many think These Bozo's can protect any one from any thing?

You're dreamin. They don't care about You, they are only interested in protecting themselves.

Law and Order Teacher said...

Z,
I have a long-term aversion to the frivolous use of the word "hero." Snowden may have performed a service for his country, but he's, as it was said earlier, a dead man walking.

I don't think any country short of a muslim enemy will give him refuge. No one wants to cross the U.S. This administration, I am convinced, is capable of anything. They'll find him one way or the other. He's here today, gone tomorrow.

This government has become so corrupt and entrenched in its own power that nothing will be allowed to get in its way. I never thought I would get to the point that I don't trust my government at anything it says. There are many reasons we reached this point. The watchdogs are now lap dogs.

What have we become?

Sam Huntington said...

With ever increasing frequency, I hear highly placed politicians and appointees say that the first priority for this government is the security of our citizens. First, explain that to the victims in Boston. How did NSA mining help prevent that act of terror? Yes, indeed, it was an act of terror. Then explain how it is possible to maintain the American Republican if the people no longer enjoy their God-given rights and protections from government tyranny. Finally, if the US government is able to by pass the constitution on this “search and seizure” provision, what should we expect to happen next —illegal encroachments by the IRS? Will the president begin signing executive orders to by-pass the legislature?

What? You say this has already happened? Then maybe we are ready for a tea party of a different sort.

Kid said...

Sam, why do the obammycare IRS agents need to be armed. IRS is under the executive branch and has very little to no oversight or control.
Today I would argue that there is no oversight or control anywhere.

All we have defending the USA are some self-serving lip service politicians who even if they were sincere, are not populus enough to have jack effect on anything.

Checks and balances is a fairy tale.

Unfortunately, this is not our founders Tea Party. Without the lead of military command no one is going to do anything but die or get shipped off to gitmo forever.

I hate to be negative, but this all seems crystal clear to me.

Security of the citizens? Wow. bloomie not only encourages the muslims to buld a celebration center near ground zero, a practice they've employed for hundreds of years at every mass murder site they perpetrated, but he profits from it.
his big idea is outlaw large soft drinks.
Then you've got the federal government paying muslim vermin to move here and live off the welfare system. Yea, that's been going on a while but it should have been shut down after 9-11. Bush is at least party responsible and is completely responsible for hte constitutional abortions DHS and TSA.
now we've got an administration, the most corrupt (and incompetent) in the history of the country practicing muslim empowerment at high levels. Inside and outside the country. They say muslims are excluded from the terms of oblammycare. I haven't seen it in the bill, but I'll believe it is there or the IRS goons simply won't collect or fine muslims. Wink. You're familiar with dhimmitude I'm sure.

Hey, but look at our Very Cool president, dude gots a hoops setup in the WH.

This would all be hilarious if it was funny.

Kid said...

Constitution gone? Aside from TSA having tossed it out in their practices in airports we even had 5-4 FOR obammycare which is unconstitutional. And we are listed as having a 5-4 conservative majority. Wait until the dems get done staffing that thing with incompetent tools. Like the repubs are going to win in 2016? And would that matter?

I'm just waiting for the libtards to understand what happened to them.

Kid said...

I make the mistake of clicking on the news page

Widely supported in the senate, and the house version was written by Boy George while he was in rehab with some help from cher and madonna.

A Trillion $ And this is just a little tidbit, an hors de vors for political wealth enrichment.
Fall of Rome. We're there. The fires are burning brightly.

Z said...

That weirdo Piers Morgan literally just said "I'm surprised that those who are so vehement about the 2nd amendment gun rights are so willing to give away their freedom by being snooped upon by the NSA"

Is he KIDDING?

How many strong conservatives (witness these comments) don't care about the NSA snooping?

Z said...

Kid...DAMN! I looked at your link.

I have to go downstairs; THIS IS DISGUSTING..are they KIDDING?

What's the up side?

WHAT THE H...............??????????????????????

Kid said...

Z, Here's a much better link

No offense. ;-)

Impertinent said...

VDH:

"The saga of Obama is marked by the uncanny ability to soar through the academic and government cursus honorum without ever being held too accountable for what followed. Obama’s selection as editor of the Harvard Law Review broke new ground. But to this day, no one cares much that his record was mediocre with no scholarly work to show for his tenure.

For that matter, ditto also his law career at the University of Chicago: an impressive appointment, but no scholarly book as promised, not even an article, and no distinguished record of teaching. Not much of anything.

The point of the Nobel Prize was winning it — not doing anything that might have earned it. Just as there was no foreign policy achievement that preceded the prize, so there was naturally none following it. Why expect anything different now?

But Obama’s record as president? There is pretty much nothing other than ramming through an unpopular takeover of health care, leveraged by political bribes and deemed unworkable even before it is enacted.

A “train wreck” is how its author in the Senate dubbed his own legislative offspring. Otherwise it was golf, down time, and free rein for zealous subordinates to “fundamentally transform America” by any means necessary, usually through administrative fiat and subversions of the vast and always growing bureaucracy."


And there's more to come.

Impertinent said...

Our Constitution is an operating system, and like any OS it has certain minimal hardware requirements without which it cannot run properly. Specifically, it requires an electorate that is reasonably engaged, reasonably educated, reasonably self-sufficient and willing to put principle ahead of personal gain.

We have, at the moment, none of those things. What we have instead is a political party that has mastered the art of wrangling the stupid, selfish and uneducated into the voting booth.

"Hacking" is a good word. Obama and his ilk found the weakness in the system and have exploited it masterfully.

Law and Order Teacher said...

Z,

Re Kid's link:

Cha-ching. Another trillion down the toilet. Anytime a politician BSs about cutting spending just watch what they do. As the old saying goes "I see better than I hear." They deal in their currency: votes. That's all that matters.

Kid said...

Law and Order, At the worst they are exactly what we think they are(some of us):
sociopathic self gratification focused bastards, who if they do anything for the country it is only to keep it breathing so they can keep stealing - regardless for themselves or their ever-illusive "masters". My bet is it is they themselves.

At BEST! They have given up and decided that every brain fart induced idea they've had since the beginning, (but ramped up starting with LBJ, continued by carter, clinton, and now he imbecile obama), has destroyed the country beyond repair so why not enrich the hell out of themselves on the way out, leaving the rest of us low and wet.

Either way, in order to take the focus off of them, so they stratagize anyway, they introduce
countless shiny fuzzy misdirection balls for the population to focus on instead of them.
gay marriage, mexcians, muslims, immigrants, gun control, abortion, you name it, and 999,999,999 out of a million are focused on it.
Not to mention the ever popular 24/7/365 Sports.

Kid said...

My math got a little fuzzy there :)

Anyway, I'm here to testify that there has Never been the number of misdirection subjects for people to focus on. Parabolic. Exponential. And serious problems to be sure but not the core problem, which is....

Impertinent said...

@Kid:

"they introduce
countless shiny fuzzy misdirection balls for the population to focus on instead of them."


Close Kid...but the low info "voters" aren't even following the latest mess he's in...they care only about the "subsidies". The free phone...50 million more on food stamps ( hence the $750 billion going there ) and all the other freebies.

Do you think the illegal sheets care about such things as we do? Or the mutts that never voted before but were bought in 2012 to replace those he lost in 2010?

Z said...

From my stepson tonight (regarding the Germany article below this post): "thanks for posting the text. This ducky guy doesn't get it obviously. There were threats published on a extreme left website; the dams are now watched and protected, so even some authorities took it seriously. Of course the main media didn't report about this."

Get a grip, Ducky...you may not LIKE it, but that doesn't make it wrong. :-)

Kid said...

IMP, There ARE a lot of loser morons to be sure, but I also believe there are a great number of people, who if properly informed, would have made sure this imbecile didn't get a 2nd term.

Average American said...

"Edwards Snowden....Hero or Traitor?"

Neither! Joe Biden spilling his guts hours after the demise of OBL-maybe traitor.
Wiki-leaks from the last year or two-maybe traitor.
Snowden ratting out NSA for snooping into our privacy-definitely not a traitor.

The REALLY scary part: there are 800,000 defense contractor employees with similar security clearances as Snowden. If that number was a bit higher, one could say that he was "1 in a million", but not a hero.

FrogBurger said...

Interesting interview http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/10/what-do-they-know-about-you-an-interview-with-nsa-analyst-william-binney/

Mustang said...

Binney: That’s my point. When you ask how much damage these leaks have done to our capability, they’ve actually done absolutely nothing. The terrorists were monitoring all of this information anyway, so they had a pretty good idea of what was being collected. So, who are we keeping this from? It’s not the terrorists. We are really keeping it from the American public. Because that’s who they’re collecting data about. And that’s who they’re keeping it secret from. The terrorists already knew all this stuff.

Far too much government, folks.

Mustang said...

Continued from FB's link above:

Daily Caller: The stuff that’s come up in the last couple days, is it a good thing? Is there any possibility of reform or restoration of the Fourth Amendment?

Binney: Certainly it’s possible to do. There’s a technical way to do it. But these people have all been duped by the intelligence community agencies. They throw technobabble down at the Congress and the judges. And those people have no idea what they’re talking about. All they can do is listen to the agencies and take their word for it. And they have no way of double checking or verifying. So I look at the oversight by Congress and the courts as just a joke. In the last year, how many requests for a warrant has the FISA court rejected? Zero. It’s just a rubber stamp. In 2002 the FISA courts found out that the FBI lied on 75 affidavits for a warrant. And they didn’t do anything as a result of that. How good of an oversight is that? It’s nothing, it’s a joke.

And The Survey Says said...

His biggest sin was that he didn´t vote for Obama. I doubt if this would be the same if he was one of those Liberal freaks who believes every word that the Liar in Chief says.The man has a lot of guts. More than most people in fact.

Liberalmann said...

Both Glenn Beck and Michael Moore call him a 'hero.' Go figure.

FrogBurger said...

Both Glenn Beck and Michael Moore call him a 'hero.' Go figure.

In your black and white world, you're perturbed by shades of grey. That's because you're a drone and can't decipher political ideas and philosophies.