Saturday, June 8, 2013

Grief Counseling...up to US or NOT$$$ ?

At least two of the locations in the Santa Monica killings yesterday were very, very close to my home and my work.  HERE is the story.  I believe it's at least 4 dead at this point.  Young people at Santa Monica City College saw at least one dead person, probably two.   This is a very tough thing, obviously. 

In the police press conference happening Friday night as I type this, they are saying there will be psychologists offering grief counseling tomorrow and probably for the rest of the week for students who need it.   Paid for by the State, I suppose.

Here is my question:  Does that strike you as the right thing to do with taxpayer dollars?  Should we be so concerned about their mental health that we ought to offer these poor kids some counseling?   Should we be so concerned about their mental health but suggest that, if they need it, they seek private help on their own nickel?

What's your thought?

Thanks, Z


geeeeZ

42 comments:

Bob said...

If my kid were going to that school and witnessed a shooting, I would bring them home, not to return.

Some kids may need counseling, and it should be available for them on campus. Most schools of any size have counseling services available.

Thersites said...

Grief counselor...

Another government created and mandated jobs category that contributes nothing to the American economy....

...like EEO Specialist.

Impertinent said...

Shootings or not...most of them need counseling after they leave too...or maybe before so that they spend their money on something more rewarding and useful for their futures.

FreeThinke said...

There's an idiotic assumption in this official policy that one week with a few sessions with a "counselor" will somehow palliate the feelings of innocent bystanders and enable them to return to normal without further ado.

It's nothing more than a GESTURE at best. Another one of myriad liberal assertions of SYMBOLISM over SUBSTANCE where the primary purpose is to make themselves -- and society as a whole -- believe that they have actually ACCOMPLISHED something.

Meanwhile the real needs of the "victims" re ain largely unattended to.

IT'S NOTHING BUT A SHOW, FOLKS.

The moral equivalent of yet-another "Potemkin Village."

Always On Watch said...

Haven't people of all ages -- for millennia -- dealt with grief of all types?

Why is there a sudden "need" for so much grief counseling?

I recently read an autobiography called Saturday Night Widows. One of the major themes of the book deals with the flaws of grief counseling, particularly the flaw of the perpetual pity party.

I know Grief only too well. Frankly, I, starting at the age of 8, had to find my own way through that grief.

Robert Sinclair said...

I had a cursory interest in the story as it unfolded. Then the “journalists” began to interview “students” who had actually “heard” gunshots. It was at this point that I began to lose interest. Most of the students were speaking English as a second language, which is okay … but they were speaking barrio English, which no one except a denizen understands. My first thought was, how did they become enrolled into a college … even in Santa Monica?

Well beyond this, I don’t understand the value of informing residents of Connecticut about a shooting on the other side of the world from where they are. How is it “news” of any consequence? It was about as interesting as reading about Richard Rodriguez’ death. Who cares?

Anyone who experiences violence on the magnitude of multiple shootings probably needs some kind of intervention, especially if they were the ones pulling the trigger. Who should pay for it? Well, I don’t know … but it seems to me that if we can send the first family on 49 vacations at our expense in a single year, we can afford to offer counseling to a non-English speaking victim of random violence.

Always On Watch said...

FT,
Also, I second what you said in your comment above!

sue hanes said...


Z - You raise a good point. It is a good thing that they have grief counselling if they need it. But maybe they should be paying for it on their own. They probably wouldn't be a likely to get it if it wasn't provided.

Ed Bonderenka said...

I second FT, RS, Bob, ThersitesThersites, Imp, and AOW both times.
I could repeat what they said, but that would be repetative and imply I didn't read their comments.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Then again, the counseling is just another offerring of a "full service" government.

Sam Huntington said...

I suspect that if those kids needed counseling every time they'd been exposed to gunfire, they may as well permanently relocate to a mental hospital. Drive-by shootings is what they are exposed to nearly every single day. This is much to do about nothing. But if they can't cope ... by all means, go get counseling.

And pay for it themselves.

Or they could go back to Mexico where such things are unheard of.

conservativesonfire said...

Come on, Z. The politicians can't buy votes by asking them to spend their own dime. It doesn't work that way.

viburnum said...

@Robert
"I don’t understand the value of informing residents of Connecticut about a shooting on the other side of the world ...How is it “news” of any consequence?"

I've wondered that myself, and concluded that it's part of a general media anti gun campaign. The media is doing it's best to keep up the anxiety level regarding guns and gun owners by reporting any and every incident that occurs in any sort of public venue, focusing on the instrument rather than who and why.

The last similar incident took place "near" a campus in Texas and precipitated a lock-down at the school even though it was off campus and as I recall turned out to be gang/drug related. That this one generated a lock-down of the Malibu School District, more than 20 miles away, shows the success of their efforts.

Z said...

Viburnum, I didn't hear any Malibu school was closed ...if so, it wasn't for a nanosecond.
I did see the three schools very near SMCC were shut down..
A 95 yr old friend of mine was stuck in her car for 2 hours without moving and the cops would give her no information. I thought it was for the Obama visit but then heard about this..

Robert..I couldn't agree with you more on covering things like this across the nation.
I think it's murderous to the American morale to constantly be told every single little thing about the most gruesome situations across the country... "odd" they didn't want to cover the abortion doctors' trials because they were too gruesome for coverage (sarcasm here).

But, truly....it's not healthy for all of us to hear every incident everywhere..it's burdensome, it's scary, it makes us feel we're about nothing but negatives and that is SO not America.

FreeThinker is right...I blogged on this recently; We are supposed to 'get over it' so quickly.
How does one get over seeing a person who's been shot with a few counseling sessions?

Always said that she had to work through grief even as a child..
Can anybody even suggest that didn't mature her in life-helping ways for the future? Of course it did!

We're raising kids who can't do anything without help....it's sickening.


ALL: I once went to SMCC, upon my arrival back to Los Angeles from my 4 years in Paris, to sign up for French or German class so I wouldn't get rusty(er~!); This was about 10 years ago.
I walked in and saw about 200 kids signing up for classes in a big room...they were wearing so much metal in their faces that I thought the only way I could get near a table to get any information would be to have brought a huge and powerful magnet and held it at one end so that all the kids would be drawn to it and stay there stuck for a few minutes so I could get to a counselor.!

Instead, I left. But that WAS what I thought as I stood there 3 people deep at a table trying to get help and trying to ignore the metal beads and hoops on the kids' faces.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

I'll echo the sentiments already expressed. Man has successfully dealt with tragedy from the beginning of time, without 'counseling'.

I actually think that our current paradigm of mental health, counseling and medications have caused our species to become less dependent and less able to cope with reality.

After all, if you can simply turn to the state or pop a pill, instead of confronting the real world....what do you think most our our lazy brethren will do?

Constitutional Insurgent said...

My previous post should read "less independent".

Impertinent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Impertinent said...

How does one get over seeing a person who's been shot with a few counseling sessions?"

It wasn't included in our pay grades or MOS / AFSC's when we enlisted.

Always On Watch said...

Sam,
I suspect that if those kids needed counseling every time they'd been exposed to gunfire, they may as well permanently relocate to a mental hospital. Drive-by shootings is what they are exposed to nearly every single day.

No kidding!

Impertinent said...

@Z:

"a huge and powerful magnet"

That's funny...now they have the magnet stored where the moon don't shine and vote for Oleaker.

Z said...

Imp :-)!!

CI...I have personally heard of military encouraged to seek help when they didn't feel they needed it and later, feeling like they were labeled with things they just don't feel are right.........almost coerced into being in need.


I'll be gone all day, folks....can't wait to see what more of you think.

have a great day

Constitutional Insurgent said...

Z - That could be a whole other topic. There's some major reasons why I avoided a PTSD diagnosis.

Joe said...

Common, Z. Haven't you caught on yet that the government's role is to give you everything you need every time you need it for what ever reason you need it and especially in whatever amount you need it? After all, it costs the government nothing, since the only money it has comes from you and me.

Get with the program!

viburnum said...

"I didn't hear any Malibu school was closed ..."

That was reported on the radio here in Philadelphia.

viburnum said...

It appears that report may have come about from the reporter not realizing that SM-Malibu is one school district.

beakerkin said...

I need a grief counselor every April
15.

Impertinent said...

@Beakerkin:


"I need a grief counselor every April
15."


It is a national day of mourning.

Ed Bonderenka said...

With this president, it's "Mourning in America".

beamish said...

same old song

Mustang said...

Should the taxpayer fund grief counseling or mental health intervention? I think the answer to this weighty question must come to us from our understanding of Indian religious beliefs. Karma, in a variety of interpretations, suggests that whatever befalls us is deserved by our behavior, attitudes, our inner-most thoughts. It could be good karma, resulting from saintly behavior, or bad karma resulting from being a Democrat.

According to this understanding, grief counseling would be inapprorpriate because (a) if you were saintly, you wouldn’t have been at the college to begin with, or (b) if you were at the college, then at a minimum, you were a no-good bastard in your other life and deserve to be stricken with grief. In fact, if you weren’t shot, you weren’t stricken enough … more crap is on the way.

Of course, this is very, very weighty stuff, and must never be considered without having consumed 32 ounces of Starbucks coffee, black, no sugar.

The Chinese, however, have a more enlightened view: in the view of Falun Gong, there is no good karma. It is purely and simply deserved misfortune. Remarkably, this is a view that is very similar to America’s understanding, expressed as a Gumpism: shit happens, deal with it.

I therefore think we must culturally adhere to Falun Gong Gumpism, for otherwise, people will be lining up for years to access a mental health counselor following hurricaines, tornados, tsunamis, earthquakes, Tax Day, and large birds defecating on the windshileds of our brand new BMW cars.

Z said...

Mustang, I think 32 oz of Bourbon might be better :-)


CI...I hope you haven't suffered terribly from all of your service. I really do pray that.

Ed "Mourning in America"...I've thought that same thing; well said. Sad, isn't it.

Imp and Beak...me, too...

Viburnum, that's right...I'm just saying I don't think any actual school IN Malibu was shut down as it's probably 10 miles up Pacific Coast Highway.........I do believe it's part of the same School District; thanks for clearing that up.


Joe, I HATE the program!! :-)

In line with MOURNING in America...let me say I hate the POGROM! :-)

beamish...yes...same old song.

Z said...

beamish..I actually kinda like that group..........good beat, etc.
And yes..oh yes..WE CARE A LOT! $$$$$

Kid said...

This is all part of turning the country into a giant kindergarten class. Or daycare center is maybe the right term, with the main point of turning the population in weaklings.


Specifically; Yes, pay for it themselves, and how many would? Zero.

beamish said...

We care a lot.

We care a lot.

We care a lot about disasters, fires, floods, and killer bees.
About the nasa shuttle falling in the sea.

We care a lot about starvation and the food that live aid bought.

We care a lot about disease baby rock, Hudson, rock.

Woah! Oh its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
Oh its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.

We care a lot.

We care a lot.

We care a lot about the gamblers and the pressures and the geeks.

WE care a lot about the smack and crap and wack that hits the streets.

We care a lot about the wellfare of all you boys and girls.

We care alot about you people cuz we're out to save the world.
Yeah!

Well its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
Oh its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
[ From: http://www.metrolyrics.com/we-care-a-lot-lyrics-faith-no-more.html ]
Said its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
Oh its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
Oh its a dirty job but soneones gotta do it.
Oh its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
Oh its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
Said its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.

We care a lot about the army navy airforce and marines.

We care a lot about the ny sf and lapd.

We care a lot about you people.
We care alot about your guns.
We care a lot about the wars we're fighting. Gee that looks like fun!

We care a lot about the garbage pail kids, they never lie.
We care a lot about transformers because theres more than meets the eye.
We care a lot about the little things, the bigger things we top.
We care a lot about you people, yeah you bet we care a lot.
Yeah!

Said its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
Well its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
Said its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
Well its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
Well its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
Said its a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
Said its a dirty song but someones gotta sing it.
Woah!

beamish said...

And yes..oh yes..WE CARE A LOT! $$$$$

Paying people to not call you a sociopath seems rather self-defeating, no?

Z said...

Kid, how about the term "aslyum?"
I think that fits.!

Kid said...

Z, I'm good with that too. We need more than one description anyway.

Average American said...

They are frigging COLLEGE students for Pete's sake! I was shooting an M-60 at people that were trying to KILL me when I was that age and never once did anyone offer me grief counseling. MAN UP you whining babies!!!!

Average American said...

Where the Hell is this world going anyway?!

I gotta go before I really let loose of a barrage of cussing.

Bob said...

Since this is California we are talking about, how about just distributing some of that medical marijuana to the kids to soothe their troubled psyches. Problem solved!

Elmers Brother said...

Karma is a cruel banker Mustang....you never know the term nor how much is owed.

Always On Watch said...

FYI...Chicago Veteran Has Antique Guns Confiscated After Visit to Grief Counselor (Video).