Wednesday, October 23, 2013

Earned Tax Credits.............WHAT?


WHAT IN THE WORLD?

The IRS is losing billions each year on Earned Income Tax Credits and they know it, and they have ways to prevent it, but they aren't?   Check this out:

"The EITC is a refundable tax credit designed to transfer money to the working poor through the tax system. It allows the working poor to pay less in taxes or, if they have no tax liability, to get money.
Both the IRS and the auditors agreed it is a complex program and checking eligibility is difficult.
The program is popular with many lawmakers on both sides of the aisle who say it’s an effective anti-poverty tool, rewarding those who work."

"effective anti-poverty tool?"    "to get money"?


And, as the article clearly states.........many are worried about how the IRS can manage the running of Obama Care when they can't even get their act straight on this.

Also, what do you think of the Earned Income Tax Credit?

Help me out here.

Z



52 comments:

DaBlade said...


I don't think you can blame the IRS for the $Billions paid in bogus claims. They have, after all, had their hands full with the targeting of Tea Party patriots. That said, what this "anti-poverty tool" really needs is an oversight bureaucracy of a few thousand EITC Navigators and a redesign of the obamaphones to include a one-button hotline to the EITC help desk.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Dablade +1.
Now they'll be busy "tracking" Obamacare recipients.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Frankly, EITC is obviously another tool for Income Redistribution or what we, not in the business. call socialism (a synonym for vote-buying).
With other means of doing this (welfare) and a "progressive" tax rate, why do this?
Because they can.

Always On Watch said...

I first heard of the EITC back when Mr. AOW was working at a warehouse. We were shelling out in taxes, but a low of the fellows there were getting money from the IRS. They used the money mostly to purchase beer and drugs.

Rottweiler said...



There’s an old saying that if you repeat a lie often enough, some people will believe it. The more people that believe it and spread it around the more people will believe it.

In fact that’s the way Hitler's propaganda spread.
The powers that be in the lefty Libturds Media you will find propaganda like the Nazis and the Soviets did and the Chinese do now, they have been envious of their adversaries and wanted to regain control!

Rottweiler said...

I keep hearing liberals say day after day after day, "the RICH need to pay their fair share!"
What the hell does that mean? And why does “the rich” who made their money by working hard be punished by “paying more”
But when ask Liberals how much is the "fair share" and what they actually think “the rich” should have to pay, they have no idea and never come out with a specific answer or number. Others just beat around the bush and talk about other countries! But this is NOT another country! And they never have a answer to what the “rich” should pay Maybe they fear they'll get called communists? And maybe they ARE!.
So I’ll ask you Liberals here and now, what should be the "fair share" the rich have to pay in taxes!

Silverfiddle said...

I'll beat Ducky to the punch and save us all from his stale "Ronnie Raygun" comments.

EITC was signed into law in 1975 by President Gerald Ford, and expansions and reforms of it were signed into law by President Reagan in the 80's.

The entire tax code should be scrapped and replaced with a consumption tax. Government collects it from businesses and gets the hell out of the personal details of individuals.

Craig said...

The EITC was signed into law by Gerry Ford. It was expanded by Reagan, who called it the best anti-poverty policy there is.

But when ask Liberals how much is the "fair share" and what they actually think “the rich” should have to pay, they have no idea and never come out with a specific answer or number

The top marginal rate should be 50%, what it was for the first 6 years of the Reagan A
administration. Capital gains tax rate raised to 25%. Reagan thought there should be no difference in rates between those who work for their money and those who sit on their asses and collect dividends. I wouldn't raise CGT as much as Reagan, but then he was a commie Nazi by your definition.

Our WorldAs We See It said...

In the year 2000, there were only 17 million Americans on food stamps. Today, there are more than 47 million Americans on food stamps.
Back in the 1970s, about one out of every 50 Americans was on food stamps. Today, about one out of every 6.5 Americans is on food stamps.
Right now, the number of Americans on food stamps exceeds the entire population of the nation of Spain.
Most people have a really hard time grasping how much money 17 trillion dollars actually is. But it’s an amount that can never be paid.
As far as your Children’s future, Obama could not care less about the future.

Anonymous said...

Consumption tax, fair tax neither will ever pass because it removes the taxing power of congress and that is what they live for.

We need to take a closer look at what makes a democrat to understand why conservatives are hurting.
You probably are a democrat If: You rely on the federal government to support you you.
You believe the federal government can make your life decisions better than you can.
Your money is inherited and you feel worthless.
You married into a fortune and you feel worthless.
Your spouse left you for a younger partner left you very well off and hating the world.
You never smile or laugh.

Anonymous Hildergarde Hammhocker said...

We have been watching and hearing the Liberals, Democrats, Progressives and whatever you want to call these Communists celebrate in the past few days and honestly that has been extremely upsetting, owing to this entire notion of "winning" and "losing." How can a party be celebrating while our country's children and grandchildren are asleep in their beds, unaware of the Commander in theft is taking away their future!
Republicans don't want to raise taxes, and Democrats don't want to cut spending, so who’s going to pay the nation's bills?
Both parties need to compromise and stop the demagoguery if they are to honor the American tradition of leaving the country better off for the next generation. When we speak of “the next generation” we mean OUR Children and OUR Grandchildren, you have to think of it that way! The real losers from thisl are OUR future generations, not just the other parties!
Lets see now, well over 2 billion dollars of our money went to countries lead by the Muslim brotherhood, (our enemies), which has been approved and granted by this president of The United States of America. Obama knows the debt has terrible consequences for our future generations, he’s not that stupid!
Happy? Well that’s not all, what you have to think of is that the debt level is the difference between spending and what was actually bought IN..a LOT was bought in, just more was spent, about 52% of the entire worlds defense budget is spent by the USA and when you pro rata that against HEALTH it is shameful but MORE shameful when you transpose those two identifiable areas to other countries and compare the difference, only THEN do you get some idea of how shameful the USA is becoming.

Z said...

Silverfiddle...I'd like to know much much congress pushed for the EITC during Reagan and Ford. We often attribute a bill to the sitting president when he was actually pushed to it or had to bargain.

I do believe neither Ford nor Reagan would have imaged this abuse by the IRS today....in not being more careful.

Honestly, sometimes I think our country's just too plain big to run well now.

AOW, now they'll be here calling you names and telling you that's anecdotal, when anyone with a brain knows that simply can't be true; that if you knew people taking that kind of advantage, MANY are taking advantage.
I think of your eye situation often and hope you're recovering well.

DaBlade..I keep forgetting :-) Silly of me! They ARE busy!

Rottweiler, what's really scary is having a president telling Americans what amount to make is too much. Few people remember that "If you're making $250K, you're probably making ENOUGH".

unbelievable.

Duckys here said...

Silverfiddle, the driver behind the EITC was Milton Friedman.
It had strong support among conservatives.

I'm always skeptical of these articles that claim to know the extent of fraud. Very little documentation of their methodology.

Z said...

Milton Friedman wanted to get rid of all welfare for the EITC.
Now we've got everything to a ridiculous degree $$$ and it's killing us financially and emotionally by living off our neighbor.
Read the article again; when they look for fraud, they usually find it; no coincidence.

Please prove there is little or not fraud.

see you tomorrow.

Duckys here said...

Let's see, we know there is x amount of abuse but we don't know how to stop it.

Someone explain that to me. Sounds bogus.


Silverfiddle said...

Ducky, Z strikes at the heart of the matter. Listen to her:

@Z: Honestly, sometimes I think our country's just too plain big to run well now.

Yes! The feral government, which is already bloated and grossly inefficient, is trying to do more and more.

Z makes another good point. This was supposed to supplant another program, but instead just added to them.

Just one more example of how something good-intentioned gets turned into another sinkhole of waste and corruption by our Soviet-style progressive bureaucracy.

Divine Theatre said...

From the IRS site:
"Congress originally approved the tax credit legislation in 1975 in part to offset the burden of social security taxes and to provide an incentive to work. When EITC exceeds the amount of taxes owed, it results in a tax refund to those who claim and qualify for the credit."

If these taxes are indeed a burden why not reduce the tax rate or eliminate it completely? Furthermore, since when is it the job of government to provide people with an “incentive to work”?

Divine Theatre said...

Check this video out:
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/michael-shedlock/irs-refunds-4-billion-child-tax-credits

Z said...

SF. Thanks.
Going to the States is a solution, right?

Ducky..no. The IRS, in the piece, says they know how to get at the fraud.
They just aren't, in general.
This is a new low; you know better that there's no fraud. :-)

DV...good point. I guess it's the gov't's job to get people to work when the gov't is subsidizing them in so many ways.
Many have Obama Phones, more than one....who needs a job, right? They've got it made; we've liberal'd them into a lack of self respect and now we need to apparently nurture that feeling so's not to upset them :-)

Thersites said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jim at Asylum Watch said...

There is nothing "earned" about the Earned Income Tax Credit. It is nothing more than another wealth redistribution plan from those that earned it to those who did not earn it.

Silverfiddle said...

Z: Returning things to the states and the people is what needs to happen. Nothing is perfect, and there are no silver bullets, but the concept of subsidiarity, pushing things down to the lowest level where they can still be effective is something lost on the we-say-so, one-size-fit-all dictatorial statist progressives of all parties who have robbed and mismanaged our nation into the ditch.

Steven Hayworth wrote an article today that relates to this: We are gridlocked because our system was never designed to be the grand Bismarckian bureaucracy that controls everything that the progressives have been trying to turn it into.

You can't get six people to agree on the toppings for a shared pizza, yet the loony left believes they can impose one-size-fits-all "solutions" on a diverse population of over 300 million, and do it all from the District of Criminals.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/10/21/james-madison-would-know-who-todays-extremists-are-and-theyre-not-the-tea-party/

Anonymous said...

FROM GEEEZ (Z) AT WORK:

Yesterday a good black friend of mine bemoaned the fact that black girls are getting pregnant FOR the welfare money, that he's "ashamed of my people!"...I reminded him they aren't the ONLY ones doing this.

So, FOLKS..WHEN YOU'VE GOT ABOUT 2 GENERATIONS IN THIS BOAT, AND A COUNTRY THIS BIG, AND AN UNWIELDLY, TOO COSTLY GIVE-AWAY PROGRAM, AND SOME HAVE BECOME SO DUMBED DOWN THEY CAN'T WORK (PLUS, JOBS ARE HARD TO GET), WHAT DO WE DO WITH THE WELFARE/ENTITLEMENT/"I DESERVE IT!" GENERATION THE LEFT'S CREATED (with such good intentions! :-)WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM THE RIGHT?

Anonymous said...

What you do, Z, is to move as much of your wealth as feasible off the grid so nobody knows you have it and the government can't get it's claws into it.

Annie C said...

As the Dumbocrats on the Progressive Blog sites love to crow about - Obamacare was passed into law by Congress, signed into law by the president, and upheld by the Supreme Court. But what I would like to know is how could the obamacare website POSSIBLY cost $600 million?

If they were paid even $100 an hour, that means 6 million hours. A work year is 40 hours times 50 weeks and that is 2000 hours per year. That means 3000 man-years. Did 3000 people work full time on this the last year?? I can't believe that.

I say that 90% of this money never went to any software company.
Or I guess that we had a very large deductible.. LMAO
Ir is a fact that Amazon has websites for over 100 languages and did it for less than $200 million. I know that when I go to Amazon, it's fast, accurate, and they even remember the last few items I purchased.
AND WHY WAS THIS OUTSOURCED TO A FOREIGN COUNTRY?
I HEARD THAT EVEN ANN COULTERS GREAT WEBSITE COST MUCH LESS. AND IT WORKS!!

You have to get Ann Coulter’s newest book. NEVER TRUST A LIBERAL
You have NEVER seen Coulter like this before! She is unapologetic, and fabulous in her ruthless mockery of liberals, sissies, morons, hypocrites, and all other NEVER seen Coulter like this before! Coulter is uncensored, unapologetic, and unflinching in her ruthless mockery of liberals, sissies, morons, hypocrites, and all other Liberals

Mustang said...

I think that we have lost sight of sanity in this country. A person who wants to work, but who cannot due to a lack of job opportunities, or a disability, deserves the kind of assistance that he should find in a healthy community; a hand up, rather than a hand out. This is not the role of the federal government. And if offered, it should last only as long as it takes to get him or her back on their feet; not indefinitely. Extending unearned benefits to people disincentivizes them, and that is the principal problem conservatives have with progressive welfare systems. They reward sloth, rather than productivity. There is something wrong with a system that offers more money to single mothers who are baby production centers. We should be offering less. I think you posted on this issue last week.

Meanwhile, we want inclusion for everyone in this country. Everyone, therefore, should pay some tax. Paying some tax means that everyone has a stake in America. This is important, psychologically. The system we have now is similar to telling America that we have to declare war on terrorism, but not all of America ... just those who are serving in uniform. The effect of this was that while our soldiers went to war, America went to the mall.

By the way, I don’t blame people for taking advantage of a system designed to corrupt them; I blame the government who offers such programs. Every time I heard Bush proclaim compassionate conservatism, it made me want to gag. Here’s an idea for compassion: provide an environment that encourages economic growth, not one that simply takes money from some people and gives it to others based on Marxist-based criteria.

Anonymous said...

FROM Z (GEEEZ) at work:

Great comments, everybody...

Annie, the trouble is Ann Coulter's good thinking gets shouted over by the lefties who attack her uncensored, unapologetic ,unflinching-ness so nobody can hear SHE IS RIGHT. Happens ALL the time.

Mustang; I'm thinking that the viewpoint of "NOBODY WHO PAYS NO TAXES CAN VOTE" law must go into affect before ANYTHING improves in this country. If that happened, I swear I think things could improve for us AND the entitlement dopes.

I'm loving reading all your comments as fast as I can..got to run! And hope to comment later or tonight.
THANK YOU for this good conversation;

Now, tell me...what DO we do with those who are already tainted into believing their neighbor owes them a living and free healthcare...

Anonymous said...

Nothing works like cold turkey

Sam Huntington said...

The road to hell is paved with good intention.

Impertinent said...

New research from the Republicans on the Senate Budget Committee shows that over the last 5 years, the U.S. has spent about $3.7 trillion on welfare.

"We have just concluded the 5th fiscal year since President Obama took office. During those five years, the federal government has spent a total $3.7 trillion on approximately 80 different means-tested poverty and welfare programs. The common feature of means-tested assistance programs is that they are graduated based on a person’s income and, in contrast to programs like Social Security or Medicare, they are a free benefit and not paid into by the recipient," says the minority side of the Senate Budget Committee.

"The enormous sum spent on means-tested assistance is nearly five times greater than the combined amount spent on NASA, education, and all federal transportation projects over that time. ($3.7 trillion is not even the entire amount spent on federal poverty support, as states contribute more than $200 billion each year to this federal nexus—primarily in the form of free low-income health care.)

JonBerg said...

Z,

" I'm thinking that the viewpoint of "NOBODY WHO PAYS NO TAXES CAN VOTE" law must go into affect "

BRAVO!!!

I say [that] as well as other modifications are needed for voter registration. Unless and until we are ready to show some fortitude, we will continue on our downward spiral. I really don't care how distasteful this may sound to Liberals!

Anonymous said...

From Z OF GEEEZ:

Anonymous, it's easy to say "nothing works like cold turkey" but those millions on welfare now will be OUT ON THE STREET. YOUR STREET, maybe,you know? And sick, maybe. And even contagious, maybe.
DO you KNOW how many contagious diseases have picked up since our gov't's turned a blind eye to illegals coming in here on our dirty doormat?

Cold Turkey is no solution for this problem; it's become far too big.
All I know is that we can't let those folks vote. And let some ridiculous lib call me undemocratic, I don't give a damn; it's about time we revolted;

No Tax, No Vote.

When they're voting IN our money to help them, and voting NOTHING GOOD for our country...they're DONE.

I wish. When they're making some money and paying taxes, I'm welcoming them next to me in the voting booth. I'll hold the curtain tight behind them for their voting privacy.

Yep, JB... I hear in TX that they're needing ID pictures for voting. But, I suppose the ID picture can be carried to the next precinct and voted with again because I've seen, here in California, people say "I'm voting here because my house is so far from my work and Ican't get home in time!" And they have LET THEM VOTE and they've only to sign the register. as if someone looks at the thousands of names and makes sure they haven't voted elsewhere? (Hint: they do NOT even open those books and the left's figured that out)

Duckys here said...

GO SOX

Duckys here said...

Sorry, z. Can't help it. It brings me joy.

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game, the American game. It will repair our losses and be a blessing to us."
--- Walt Whitman

Z said...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/22/craigslist-makes-turning-food-stamps-into-cash-snap/

I'm really glad there's no fraud, huh? :-)

This is unbelievable.

Z said...

Ducky, I hope you win.
I just wondered why you'd have done that right after the Dodgers lost, knowing how big a fan Pris is and I become at World Series Time (I'm a 'fair weather friend'!)

Walt's right...but I don't think baseball's enough to combat your leftists. :-)

Kid said...

Z, ...hmmmm. Last year or the year before, I read where people are ripping off the IRS by stealing patient details from doctors offices andsuch and filing false returns with huge refund amounts and getting multi $5000 debit cards from the IRS, then skipping. They also file as fake businesses and ditto. to the tune of 26 billion a year. That was a couple years ago.

Then, "federal employees" owe 30 Billion in back taxes. The file, they just don't pay.

Word.
EIC? Yea, another avenue for fraud, theft and under the table black reparations.

You don't think these folks are clued into these things?

How do thousands of folks show up at WalMarts within minutes of a computer system failure regards not recognizing charge limits on food stamp EBT cards? then hauling 8 shopping carts full of stuff out.

Smoke signals?

Or ditto when k-Mart's systems went whacko and gave 4000 instant credit to Anyone and immediately there were riots in the parking lots involving people fighting over a limited number of 'credit apps' The word went out - literally "K-Mart is giving away Free Money". That's a significant part of our society now and certainly part of why I am cautious about something that might happen that would cut these folks off from their 'free money', food, etc. Riot wouldn't begin to describe it.

la laaa laa laaa la leee la.

Kid said...

Rottweiler. The rich don't pay taxes.
Predominately, the rich are involved in the production and sale of good and services to US - the non-rich.

A tax then is simply another cost component of their raw material cost, like energy, packaging, shipping cost, etc. In order for them to stay in business and keep their employees employed they must make a profit, and therefore taxes must be passed on.

WE pay tax hikes on the rich.

Kid said...

Duck said "Let's see, we know there is x amount of abuse but we don't know how to stop it."

IBM went to obama and told them they would supply software and hardware to eliminate the 50% fraud that is in Medicare. oBAMa told them No.

Explain that.

Kid said...

JonBerg. I've had a couple years to think about it. I do like the idea that if You didn't pay a net positive amount in Income + Property tax, you don't get to vote(was my thought on it)

This would also mean you need ID and an SS #. Oh Gosh !
That'd probably fix a bit as well. Once our country gets off the One Party system anyway.

Duckys here said...

@kid IBM went to obama and told them they would supply software and hardware to eliminate the 50% fraud that is in Medicare. oBAMa told them No.
------
I was a bit bemused when you called me out to provide documentation on unemployment insurance rates the other day.
It's really amusing that you make claims that would shame Alex Jones and supply nothing.

Z said...

Kid, maybe the rich don't pay taxes, but I'd hate to tell you how much my very rich uncle pays no matter what legal loopholes he might find.


Ducky, so you throw ALEX JONES in here why?? Just to inflame?
To throw Kid off the truth he's trying to lay on you?
"Bemused?" I'm BEMUSED that you'd mention him.

How do you like that guy who got fired from the White House for telling his truth about Jarrett and Benghazi?

meanwhile, Holder is still working, Lerner got to live high on severence until she quit just before the hearings, the idiot Sebelius is working though she admits "Obama didn't know" what a mess she'd created with SIXTY THREE MILLION DOLLARS worth of website help that has TOTALLY screwed up.
Ya, THEY are working but the low level guy is fired for tweeting typical employee stuff?

And Bob Beckel, 'super lib' for YEARS, is called down by 'someone at the White House' he says berated him for not walking their line on TV?

Man, your bunch is SICK...depraved, anti American SCUM, Ducky.

and I'm sorry to feel I need to hold myself back.

Kid said...

Look it up duck. Honestly. Google is your friend. Go to www.google.com. Ttype in the search box "IBM medicare fraud". Hit the search button.

Maybe this is why people are so in the dark? Dunno.

JonBerg said...

"GO SOX"
I must say the best thing he's ever imparted. For once he, actually makes sense. I ,of course, will go for St. Louis-GO, Go, Saint Louis!!!

Kid said...

Duck, as long as you are bemused, could you look up the food stamp benefit for people on unemployment also, I'll bet it gets us close to,or over the 7.50/hr benefit vs 9.50 working wage. then you have other benefits too. You know that right? Folks learn how to work the system quickly.

Have you read that welfare recipients earn an average 42k a year? Much more than if they were working the type of job they might be qualified for. It's common knowledge really. In New York, a welfare recipient earns more in total realized monetary benefits than the average teacher.

Who'd a thunk it. See, the devil is always in the details, and the details are never in the filing cabinet - or detailed on a website. You just have to understand how the stuff works and have some relative life experience to get to that point.
I don't know where you stand on that score, only you do. But it certainly explains why people who have spent all their time in academia are about as dumb as a wet rock. As an example.

Kid said...

Duck, I read this today. 1.)What do you think? 2.) What do you think would be on page 1 of every democrat propaganda media outlet (all of em) for a couple days at least if this were a non-democrat president as the subject?

Double points for honest answers.
Triple points for reality answers:)

to wit:

Jofi Joseph, who was a key member of the White House team negotiating on Iran’s nuclear weapons program, was fired after a months-long internal investigation. A White House official confirmed Wednesday that Mr. Joseph no longer works for NSC but wouldn’t go into details of his termination.
Beginning in 2011, Mr. Joseph, 40, tweeted messages critical of the administration under the “@natsecwonk” name, sometimes insulting his bosses’ intelligence and blasting administration policies. His targets included senior presidential adviser Valerie Jarrett, former National Security Advisor Tom Donilon, Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes, Secretary of State John F. Kerry, and former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Mr. Joseph tweeted that Rep. Darrell Issa, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, was an “ass” but said Mr. Issa was “on to something” with his investigation of Mrs. Clinton’s “whitewash of accountability” in the Benghazi terrorist attack. He accused Mr. Rhodes of dodging questions about Benghazi.


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/obama-aide-fired-fake-twitter-account-used-bash-wh/#ixzz2iYHYZBsP
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Kid said...

Delete the last one if you wish, kinda off topic there.

Kid said...

Z, Yes, a subject that needs to be included regards taxes is that there are some individuals ho would pay taxes that would not trickle down to us. Warren Buffet for example. If he had to pay more taxes like he begs to do in the media, it would likely not trickle down to us and his taxes don't directly affect the operating expenses of a company producing goods and services. And as far as Warren goes, it is worth noting he should shut up and pay the billion + he owes in back taxes.

Impertinent said...

@Z:

"SIXTY THREE MILLION DOLLARS"


You skipped a zero or two or three?

It's $630,000,000.00!

JonBerg said...

"Have you read that welfare recipients earn an average 42k a year? "

Yes, and according to my "Better Half" who WAS a Social Worker that's about right. Are they allowed to vote? How about it, Liberals? I'm sure that some frequently appearing person on this site would have no problem with this. So as not to disturb his celebrity status here, I'll remain silent.

skudrunner said...

"Rottweiler. The rich don't pay taxes"

Depends on your definition of rich. If it the Obama "rich" of 250k per year then they certainly pay taxes and a significant amount. The 250K is designed to punish small business for being successful.
If you are talking about the Kennedy, Kerry rich you are correct except neither produces anything except spit.

Kid said...

Skudrunner, No, I don't include the 259K a year as in the rich. Basiclaly, I'm talking about the 1%, which is what the libtards focus on.

And isn't it interesting they have a big problem with the people that bring them the things they value in their lives, food,energy, shelter, entertainment devices, clothing, etc but Don't have the slightest problem with -Name any sports person or entertainment celebrity..