Saturday, October 26, 2013

"What was the Holocaust?"

A Pennsylvania woman was curious as to what college students in her state know about the Holocaust. Her filmed interviews exposed the despicable lack of knowledge regarding not only the Holocaust, but also basic facts about World War II.
According to the Blaze, Rhonda Fink-Whitman visited several college campuses to conduct her interviews and found that even some students at the Ivy League University of Pennsylvania were completely clueless as to the world-changing events that took place just over sixty years ago.
Some students didn’t know where Normandy was, why the U.S. entered the war and who the president was at the time (Wilson, Eisenhower and even JFK were among the guesses).
One student reportedly thought that African Americans were the primary target in the Holocaust.
Fink-Whitman started her interviews with “What was the Holocaust?”
Here are some of the answers she received:
“Uh, I’m on the spot now.”
“It was a, uh, I don’t know how to say it like. It was something that happened in. Oh my God, I know the answer but I don’t know how to explain it.”
“I have no idea.”
“I have no idea … is it Europe? I don’t think so.”
She also asked which country Adolf Hitler had been the leader of:
“Amsterdam?”
“I forget.”
When she got to the University of Pennsylvania, Fink-Whitman asked students how many years ago the Holocaust occurred. One female student guessed around 1800 and then 300 years ago.
Another UPenn student even thought that Winston Churchill was an American leader.
Fink-Whitman is the author of “94 Maidens,” which chronicles her mother’s experience in the Holocaust. She believes Holocaust education should be mandatory in Pennsylvania public schools as it is California, Florida, Illinois, New Jersey and New York.
“You can’t blame the kids,” she told the Blaze. “Nobody’s teaching it to them. By the time they get to college, they should know a thing or two about the Holocaust and other genocides so when the plague of denial creeps onto their campus they’re armed and ready with the truth.”
She does note that her video is not meant to “embarrass, humiliate or shame” anyone. (end of article)

Z: Wait.  University kids don't know the Holocaust and think Winston Churchill was an American leader and don't know where Hitler led, and they shouldn't be "embarrassed, humiliated or ashamed?"   REALLY?   Didn't YOU learn that stuff in school?  Are they too busy learning about Howard Zinn?   Women's studies?  Climate Change?   

And, they say those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.  Oh, great...just GREAT.

Who's to blame?   Them?  Their teachers? 

Unbelievable.
z

80 comments:

Average American said...

Who's to blame?

The lefterd teachers and professors who are more concerned more about espousing their disgusting liberalism than anything of actual value. Dumb down the masses through education and increased reliance on government with all the freebie programs they can dream up, THAT is the essence of the dummycrat parties play book.

Always On Watch said...

Mind-boggling ignorance!

The answer about African Americans indicates one "success" wrought by our so-called educational system. White guilt must be promoted!

Thersites said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sue hanes said...


Z - It's sad and alarming to know that kids these days don't know history like they should.

I guess it's the cirriculum(sp) and the teachers. And the students too.

Darth Bacon said...

But they are still taught about Slavery

Mustang said...

Indeed … a stupid America is the leftist dream. It’s all part of the plan. I think the problem is that Whitman didn’t ask questions about the right subjects: gay studies, African American experiences in Jesse Jackson’s mind, Community Organization, and Wealth Redistribution.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Mustang said it all.
I've joked for years that most people think that we fought the communist nazis in Vietnam. Because I heard them say that. 20 years ago.

Craig said...

Last year in my daughters 8th grade public school Language Arts class, they read The Diary of Anne Frank. Watching a film adaptation was also assigned. I can only assume the teacher was a leftard, being a public school and all.

It sparked her interest to learn more. I came home one day and caught her watching "The Boy in the Striped Pajamas" on Netflix. My lefty sensibilities were assailed and I quickly switched to "The Hours". I kid.

I don't know how much she was taught or will be taught about the Holocaust will be retained when she's in college and ambushed by a camera and a microphone. The problem with these little "exposes" is that they are edited to make their point. How many answered correctly? It would be much more instructive to do an actual survey over a broad cross section of college students. I'm guessing that wouldn't give her the result she was looking for.

Finding people who lack knowledge of important historical events is easy to do. It allows you scolds to look down your noses at them and make inane assumptions about the state of education.

Duckys here said...

You can bet that this crew doesn't read Zinn either.
My guess is they're all getting primed for a job on Wall St. and don't want to be bothered with "useless" knowledge.

That said I doubt he regulars here are all that up on the events around WW II.
The role of the Red army?
The Bengali famine?
The Holodomor?
A history of Wiemar Germany?
The participants in the Spanish Civil War?


We all have our standards of literacy and I doubt "Average American" meets mine.
I think the right is too busy whining about the left to educate themselves or ask the question, "Why doesn't this culture value education?".

Duckys here said...

Also odd hat she only cares about the Holocaust which leads me to believe she's pretty ignorant herself and feels a particular group should have the honor of being the touchstone for human misery.

In other words, she supports victim mentality which i thought the right opposed.

Duckys here said...

How many of you can answer this basic question about WW II?

Which major participant had the lowest level of casualties per capita?

AN AMERICAN SOLDIER said...

Didn't most LIBERAL American Jews vote for Obama? Talk about self-hatred: How else do you explain it?

My Conservative Values said...

The so-called liberals and progressives of today used to call themselves communists from 1917-1955; with deStalinization they changed into socialists. When the socialist regimes became evident, they turned liberals. If those totalitarians are liberals then I am a turtle. It is the same vain of murderous will to power that inspires the far left, be they Nazis, Fascists, Communists, Socialists, or Progressives as they call themselves these days and liberals. Hope this short discourse will clarify this confusing situation with names! Bottom line: Tyranny is tyranny regardless of the moniker!!
Socialist, or Progressive, or Liberal Thy Name Is Hypocrite.

Anonymous said...

We can see the presence of evil, as seen in the left’s rationalizations and support for Palestinian terrorists the evil of anti-Semitism! i.e. Les Carpenter.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Duck, to be politer and answer a reasonable question.
I don't know what other people here know, but "The Holodomor?" got me.
Other than that, I've got it covered.
And as to your last question, the United States.
Still and all, see my previous comment. The situation hasn't changed in 20 years for many people I talk to.

Anonymous said...

The Jews would rather not vote for the ham sandwiches ( not Kosher ) that make up the R party.

So they vote for the peanut butter and jelly

( squishy ) Dems.

Impertinent said...

@Duck:

Australia, I believe.

Huh teach..huh?

Impertinent said...

Maybe Albania too?

Sam Huntington said...

The problem with America’s public education system is that it is filled to overflowing with die-hard communists, like Ducky who adores Howard Zinn, another leftist slug. And then of course, we have parents like Craig who have no effing idea what his children learned from the teacher. For example, was there a correlation to modern day America where the Obama administration is systematically dismantling the Bill of Rights, which protects us from the kind of filth that Obama is? Or did the teacher lead the students in a prayer to the Messiah, who is Obama—as they did in Burlington NJ. Yeah, this is all a figment of our imagination.

Okay now everybody, let’s all sing it together.

Impertinent said...

@Duck:

Come to think of it again...it just may be the US that fits that criteria.

Z said...

The responses by Craig and Ducky are so amazingly telling they don't really merit a response.

Sure! Doesn't MATTER that kids whose grades were good enough for U of PA haven't a CLUE about the holocaust and who died and where Hitler was.

So, Ducky throws out a question most people might not know in his attempt to cover this astonishing ignorance.

Don't worry, Craig and Ducky; I'm sure that those kids know ALL about slavery, as Darth suggested, and that white guilt is THE biggest world problem, as Always On Watch so wisely suggests... DO NOT WORRY.

SO our UNIVERSITY KIDS don't know Hitler or the Holocaust..it was "just Jews," right?
Just jews.
As Ducky said "ONLY the holocaust"...
See, if they don't know that, it's not important enough to Ducky......
Ducky, your silly attempts to cover the implications in my post is shameful.

She's 'ignorant' because she only asked about the main point of her study? :-)

Sam, your comment is horrifying.

Let's ask Craig and Ducky how they feel about that. They didn't mind black young men pledging to their leader....maybe they don't mind praying to Obama, either?

Think they'd have minded praying about Bush?

Ed...are you serious about the communist Nazis in Nam remark? you heard that?


DO ANY LEFTISTS CARE THAT OUR KIDS AREN'T BEING TAUGHT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS ANYTHING BUT SEX AND ALL RELATED SUBJECTS, ENVIRONMENTAL CRAZINESS, HOW NASTY WHITE AMERICA'S ALWAYS BEEN, WAR IS BAD, DON'T COMPETE, DON'T PLAY T-BALL WITH SCORES SO NOBODY FEELS BADly..

MAN.

Thank GOD I am in an environment where 14 yr olds are studying The Odyssey and Paradise Lost and loving it...where precalc is the order of the day .......where most kids are passing AP testing with flying colors and more. Thank GOD for private schools.



Duckys here said...

The responses by Craig and Ducky are so amazingly telling they don't really merit a response.
-------
Or you can't respond.

You have no way to determine whether or not this woman purposely interviewed 120 students, found 8 goobers and used the edited video for her agenda which is to make the Holocaust the touchstone of human suffering.

More has been devoted to the Holocaust than any other mass extermination and she still doesn't feel it's enough.

By the way, what's a White Terror?

Duckys here said...

I don't know what other people here know, but "The Holodomor?" got me.

-----
The Ukrainian famine (an ethnic genocide).

Serious props if you got the Bengali famine, Ed. History has pretty much ignored it.

Robert Sinclair said...

Another touchstone of human suffering is Ducky's mindless comments day ager day after day.

Jack Whyte said...

Standardized, uniform educational systems are perfect for increasing the speed to which America is transformed into a Soviet State. Common Core in Education is a parallel to Commie Care in Health Care. It is an utter disaster, a humongous bolder getting ready to smash our children into pulp. Pulp is what the leftists want. Oh, want some proof on the goal of the Obama/Progressive agenda in education? Just think about the training package mandated for U. S. Army soldiers at Fort Shelby, where they were told “… perceived radical groups, like tea party organizations and the Christian based American Family Association are tearing this country apart.”

The lewdness of the progressive agenda is piling up. When will we the people start pushing back?

My Conservative Values said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rottweiler said...

Off Topic For One Moment.

Does the ASS-HOLE Progressive commentor who mocks us on that PROGRESSIVE LEECH’S blog, actually realize how stupid he is?


As for the war, sure war is bad no matter where it is. We heard all about the thousands who are dead in Syria . Where is the moral outrage from Barbra Streisand, Susan Sarandon, Garafolo, Springteen, Sheen, Danny Glover, Sean Penn and a host of other limousine liberals---who are now curiously silent. Why? Because Obama is their guy, so all that righteous indignation goes right out the window. The silence from the Liberal’s on Syria is sickening. The civil war in Syria has cost more than 110,000 lives, still not one word about it from the Hollywood weirdos !

And where was their outrage when Palestinians killed Israelis in Israel and in other countries? Or when Palestinians rejoiced when Israel freed a man who had picked up a three-year-old Israeli girl and bashed her head in by swinging her into a wall?
Or when the MUSLIMS were dancing in the streets right after 9-11!
And how astonishing and frightening it is right now when Conservative Americans are identified as “ terrorists” or “extremists” by various elements of our government.!

Come on Americans seriously wake up. Can’t you realize that something wrong is going on!

A Guest said...

I agree, So what’s the solution? The solution is to start with the group of socialists we have in our Government. First thing that needs to be done is to throw the bums out- Then the next thing to do is to send Obama back to Kenya. And to drive the Muslims out of our country And get rid of all the anti-American non-patriotic politicians and judges who have covered up for this administration. They're traitors, and they're trying to take our freedoms and lives. If anyone does not support our Constitution of the United States then you are not American!

Craig said...

DO ANY LEFTISTS CARE THAT OUR KIDS AREN'T BEING TAUGHT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS ANYTHING BUT SEX AND ALL RELATED SUBJECTS, ENVIRONMENTAL CRAZINESS, HOW NASTY WHITE AMERICA'S ALWAYS BEEN, WAR IS BAD, DON'T COMPETE, DON'T PLAY T-BALL WITH SCORES SO NOBODY FEELS BADly..

I'm very much involved with what my daughter is being taught in public school. They do cover sex, STD's, emotional consequences, abstinence and how to protect herself in Health class. They cover reproduction in Biology. They don't ignore the effects of pollution, deforestation, etc. in Earth Science. They also cover natural cycles which includes carbon and what happens when carbon is removed from the earth and put in the atmosphere. Physics says it traps heat. That's not in dispute.

They teach that slavery was part of the American experience. I've never seen anything to suggest Whites are nasty. They teach the different wars through history and there's never a judgment on good or bad. My daughter's never played T-ball, just volleyball since age 9. They've always kept score and there's always been a winner and a loser.

Some of the things you stated are, indeed, taught. What, in the name of Obama, makes you think that's all they're taught? Your statement has no basis in fact.

Sure! Doesn't MATTER that kids whose grades were good enough for U of PA haven't a CLUE about the holocaust and who died and where Hitler was.

They should probably know this. It doesn't mean they weren't taught it at some point. It's quite possible it doesn't hold as much importance to them as is does to you or me. Does Fink-Whitman mention how large her sample was? Are these kids Liberal Arts students, engineering or chasing MBAs? Public or private school grads? Homeschooled? Until you know, any assumption you make is moot.

It's been a long time, but is the Holocaust on the SATs or ACTs?



Craig said...

drive the Muslims out of our country... If anyone does not support our Constitution of the United States then you are not American!

Priceless, absolutely brilliant!

Duckys here said...

Ed, what do you have as a degree?
I'm curious about mustang and Sammy the Wig Sniffer also.

Just worthwhile putting it on the table to defuse some of the ad hominem.

I have a degree in the dreaded useless fine arts discipline with a minor in mathematics.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Duck, last name is Ukranian. Knew of the famine (Stalinist in origin) but the term escaped me.

Z said...

Ducky, No, I just cannot respond to either you or Craig.
Just can't muster an answer up! :-)
Ah, well...

and darn, if people don't have degrees; must mean they can't THINK.
Or maybe they weren't "degreed" into leftism so you think they couldn't have gone to college/university?

You are the biggest snob, typical limousine liberal I have ever.....no, never mind, I live in Santa MOnica, I know MANY here, so you're not the worst. I have to admit that.

Ducky:
1. insult the person who did the study
2. find one little point that might not make sense or be 100% true and negate all the information in the post
3. accuse those who don't agree of being stupid
4. equate college with intelligence
5. say you don't like obama but defend him in every single comment
you make
6. if you don't agree, you're a wall street creep (forgetting that much of wall street is NOT Republican as the leftwing likes to lie about
7. anyone who likes a movie that's lighthearted buys into idiotic American film, which has no merit
8. throw out terms nobody's EVER heard of or needs to and equate that with never having heard of the holocaust (personal favorite of Z's today)

anybody want to add on?

Really, Ducky, transparent isn't big enough a word.

Just worthwhile putting on the table to defuse any idea that someone who didn't go to college could possibly know shi.. anything.

Oops

Z said...

By the way, Ducky....

Are your comments today your typical "rush to the defense of the left" comment's page knee-jerk reaction you always have? It can't be that you actually BELIEVE it's just fine that university students don't know what the holocaust was or where Hitler was.

I hope?

Ed Bonderenka said...

Ducky:
"defuse some of the ad hominem." Roger that.
I have an associates in automation, and a journeyman's card. I was accepted into the Engineering College at U of M and bypassed my first year. Stupid thing to do. Got swamped and dropped out. Got a low draft number and enlisted in the Air Force.

I agree with Z when she says that the questions you and Craig pose, appear to be a deflection from the topic. Not knowing some deeper information is not the same as not knowing what the Holocaust was, similar to not knowing which war D-Day occurred in. I've heard people say it was in Vietnam.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Z: Yes, I've heard many people get historical occasions and figures confused, such as D-Day in Vietnam. It's always fun to clue them in and not mock them, but they don't have the framework (a timeline) to peg the facts.

Duckys here said...

z, at no time did I even imply that it is desirable not to know the history of the Holocaust.

I was quite clear (as was Craig) that the clip is inconclusive and most likely put forward to support an agenda.

A rigorous survey may well demonstrate that the U.S. population isn't well versed in a variety of subjects. I do not believe the majority of this country has the time to educate themselves and our media doesn't help.

I also believe the evangelicals should be more circumspect since they assume a complete revealed truth and are not open to inquiry themselves.

Z said...

z, at no time did I even imply that it is desirable not to know the history of the Holocaust.


OH. I'M SORRY. IT LOOKED STRANGELY AS IF IT DIDN'T MUCH MATTER, AND IT'S JUST AN AGENDA, AND NOT ENOUGH SCHOOLS WERE ASKED, WHEN MANY COLLEGES WERE VISITED, BUT, MAYBE IT'S JUST ME. :-)



A rigorous survey may well demonstrate that the U.S. population isn't well versed in a variety of subjects. I do not believe the majority of this country has the time to educate themselves and our media doesn't help.
SO, SOME AMERICANS NOT BEING 'WELL VERSED' MAKES IT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU THAT UNIVERSITY STUDENTS HAVEN'T BEEN EDUCATED TO KNOW THAT SIX MILLION JEWS WERE KILLED AND THAT WE HAD A WORLD WAR II WHICH A GUY NAMED HITLER WAS INVOLVED IN? REALLY?


I also believe the evangelicals should be more circumspect since they assume a complete revealed truth and are not open to inquiry themselves.

WHAT'S THIS HAVE TO DO WITH MY POST? AND WHEN HAVE YOU EVER MISSED A CHANCE TO SLAM 'EVANGELICALS' ON ANY SUBJECT I'VE POSTED NO MATTER HOW UNCONNECTED? HILARIOUS. YOU DO MAKE ME LAUGH, I HAVE TO GIVE YOU THAT!! :-)


Ed...Of course they've deflected from the subject. Nothing new there for them. It's why it's not much use responding. it's so transparent. but, I have to admit they're good at it.

I can't imagine someone getting DDay and Vietnam confused, but...I suppose it happens.

And, let's face it, not knowing what WWII was about, for instance, does denigrate all the amazing work America did saving more from being killed ... all the heroic Americans are forgotten when we don't understand the Holocaust and those surrounding years.
And we think that's not an agenda? (ya, right)

Anita David said...


It’s such a disgrace not to teach this greatly important part of Word History.
My husband and I are both history buffs so both of my girls have quite an extensive knowledge of history and politics. It's funny to watch them come home from school, one is in college now, but still, and say things like, "No one in my class knew who the Vice President is except for me!".
Everyone in the world should know what those poor people went through. It should never be forgotten and its such a slap in the face to them to not be making this a mandatory course of study in our schools. And you never see the survivors asking for reparations, as the black due.
The Blacks want to be paid for what their ”relatives” went through in the days of slavery, relatives that they themselves don’t even know. Yet this happened in many of our life times. And some close their eyes to the truth . When I was in college, the most powerful class I took in college, by far, was the History of the Holocaust!

I guess that the Left wing idiots may not want to talk about death camps. There is a difference between seeing the movie the "Diary of Anne Frank" and learning about the Holocaust. But some movies were pretty accurate like "Schindler's List"

Ed Bonderenka said...

Anita, the Nazis WERE National Socialists after all. So maybe the concept of death camp is being played down as you suggest, to not arouse suspicions of what the socialists intend for us.

Duckys here said...

But some movies were pretty accurate like "Schindler's List"

----
And just how do you know that, Anita?

Anonymous said...

Don't fool yourself. The real scandal here is not that a bunch of college kids do not know about Holocause, but that all over the world so many do. And yet, not many have even heard of several others. What do you know about the Bengal famine? Do you know this:

"In 1943, some 3 million brown-skinned subjects of the Raj died in the Bengal famine, one of history's worst. Mukerjee delves into official documents and oral accounts of survivors to paint a horrifying portrait of how Churchill, as part of the Western war effort, ordered the diversion of food from starving Indians to already well-supplied British soldiers and stockpiles in Britain and elsewhere in Europe, including Greece and Yugoslavia. And he did so with a churlishness that cannot be excused on grounds of policy: Churchill's only response to a telegram from the government in Delhi about people perishing in the famine was to ask why Gandhi hadn't died yet."

Anonymous said...

What about Amerindians? What was the death toll like? Was it more or less than 6 million?

Craig said...

I guess that the Left wing idiots may not want to talk about death camps. There is a difference between seeing the movie the "Diary of Anne Frank" and learning about the Holocaust. But some movies were pretty accurate like "Schindler's List"

This thread is full of accusations gleaned from a few college students who don't know about the Holocaust. You all reflexively default to your, "It's those commie liberal's fault", position. Left wingers don't want to talk about death camps? How thick are you? My 14 year old daughter knows who Hitler was. She's been exposed to the horrors of Nazi Germany from history class, reading Anne Frank and through film. She goes to public school. Z's nonsense about public education is just that, nonsense.

"Schindler's List" is a more accurate account of the camps and the suffering of the Jews. "Shoah" is probably better than that. A visit to the Holocaust Museum would be even more insightful. She hasn't seen any of those things and maybe she never will. She may forget everything she has learned by the time she goes to college. She may have no interest, though I doubt it. She IS taught it.

It's a shame these kids aren't more aware of those events but, as Z seems to think, it shouldn't be the prerequisite for getting a college education. It's obvious to me that that all those ignorant kids were homeschooled in Conservative households. See, I can play too.

Baysider said...

One of the problems with a focus on 'teaching the holocaust' is often it is just giving facts about how awful it was. Even more important is to understand the causes, processes and consequences of aggregating power in authoritarian hands. Sadly, many with a fervor to 'never forget' never learned the antecedents or recognize modern variations of them.

Nazi Germany is just a standout example within living memory of what man hath wrought. Read 'Where Ghosts Walked: Munich's Road to the Third Reich,' 'Bonhoeffer' and 'In The Garden of Beasts.'

Truly understand the grievance mentality, for another. Ouch! That's a little close to home, now.

PS. It's almost impossible to get out of school (college or even high school) without reading the proctologist's view of America perpetrated by Howard Zinn, both directly and indirectly through a doctrinaire.

Impertinent said...

@ducky:

"And just how do you know that, Anita?"

Steven Spielberg's relatives oral accounting of them, perhaps? Which I think is why he made the movie. If I remember he gave an homage to the survivors at the end of the movie too. Do you think they lied or was it all the physical evidence planted and photographic evidence that was photo shopped?

You make truthers look intelligent and believable.

Z said...

Stanford University accepted 26% of the 35 homeschoolers who applied--nearly double its overall acceptance rate.

23 of this fall's 572 freshmen at Wheaton College in Illinois were homeschooled, and their SAT scores average 58 points higher than those of the overall class.

Most colleges take a close look at standardized-test scores when weighing homeschool applications.

2001, homeschoolers scored an average of 1,100 on the SAT--a full 81 points above the national average--and 22.8 on the ACT, compared with the national average of 21.

Z said...

Baysider, when I lived in Munich and looked up at lovely expensive brownstones with step-up porches, I used to imagine Jews being marched down those steps, literally to their deaths...in the too near future. Not always, but it would occur to me.

Of course, when we went to school, we WERE taught about this but I've often thought it wrong that public schools didn't teach about the German resistance. It was huge and the ramifications for those caught was heartbreaking.
Like brother and sister in college who started THe White Rose and who were killed on the same day, their last letters to their parents being etched on a stone in a Munich Park today in honor of them.
I could go on and on.

My husband's employee was an author who wrote about a 3" book on the WIEDERSTAND (STand Against.... RESISTANCE), page after page of young and old Germans who did their best to stop it.
No, even if our children are taught about WWII and the Holocaust, they don't learn that, I can assure you.

Duckys here said...

No, Imp, Spielberg was sent a copy of a book on Schindler and developed a script from that.

Now I won't say the film wasn't accurate but it does depend largely on a single source.
There's still the question of how we can be certain.

There was a lot of bowing before Spielberg but the film was handled with kid gloves.

Z said...

How anyone can say everything has to be sourced several times before it's true is beyond me.

First, are some of us suggesting that university kids not knowing about the Holocaust, or about Hitler, admitting they haven't a clue, doesn't condemn our education system? It doesn't matter if they don't know a huge piece of history?

Does any work of non-fiction depend solely on those characters who were there to recreate conversations from the past? What source do we have?

Schindler's list; how can we be certain of WHAT? Every piece of information on Schindler supports the film, so I'm hugely interested in what might not be accurate. Eager to hear.

"Historical Analysis:
Upsides
Schindler's List, directed by the same person who directed Saving Private Ryan, Steven Spielberg, is an excellent movie, especially regarding its accuracy throughout the film. During that time in Poland, Jews were considered cheap labor because they could not earn their own wage. It went directly towards the Reich, just like in the movie. As the movie showed, Oskar did give up his greed and lose all his fortunes just to save the lives of as many Jews as he could, and his only regret was not saving enough.
Downsides
On the other hand, there were a few small, but mention-able factual errors within the film. Like most movies, the idea of Hollywood got the best of it, and many scenes are dramatized to make it seem more significant or to make it more entertaining so that it would make more money. There was some exaggeration in some scenes, but not enough to make its historical significance ruined.
Conclusion
Because it is, after all, a non fiction movie based off the life of a real man named Oskar Schindler, it is, for the most part, accurat, and a very good example of how the Polish Jews were treated or seen as during the time."

Duckys here said...

@z --
Ducky:
1. insult the person who did the study
2. find one little point that might not make sense or be 100% true and negate all the information in the post
3. accuse those who don't agree of being stupid
4. equate college with intelligence
5. say you don't like obama but defend him in every single comment
you make
6. if you don't agree, you're a wall street creep (forgetting that much of wall street is NOT Republican as the leftwing likes to lie about
7. anyone who likes a movie that's lighthearted buys into idiotic American film, which has no merit
8. throw out terms nobody's EVER heard of or needs to and equate that with never having heard of the holocaust (personal favorite of Z's today)

------
1. The individual doing the "study" states in the clips that she feels it's proof that the Holocaust should be part of the standard curriculum. That is called an agenda.
2. Her sample size was ridiculous and her tape was probably edited. It was done expressly for The Blaze.
3. Actually I try not to. But when you get the usual junk about "libtards" and the ad hominems (and nothing else) from Sam then it's natural to get a little testy.
4. I equate intelligence with intelligence.
5. How did Obama get into this? Yes, I think Obama is right/center and a disappointment for the record. How does the thread have anything to do with the administration?
6. I'll watch the sarcasm.
7. I think Lubitsch in To Be or Not To Be really pulled one off by making a comedy about the topic. Chaplin to some extent in The Great Dictator though not his best.
8. Odd that you feel your the impresario over what people need to know although you kind of prove a point about agendas.

Z said...

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n3p-7_Raven.html

That's a hilarious review on the history of Schindler and the film..

Spielberg portrayed Jews as "prosperous"..Preposterous :-)

Spielberg shows Nazis in a worst light than they were? Preposterous :-)

Films generalize to make their point. Nazis=bad Jews=good

ya, that would be a message..the downtrodden killed by the mean ol' bad guys...and, mostly, that's correct. You just have to read that to see such bias toward SOMETHIHNG ?? that you'll giggle, I swear.

As if someone has to come throughout the film, like the Stage Mgr who intercedes in OUR TOWN, for example, and say "Well, not ALL NAzis were this bad" (and they were NOT), and "Well, of course, some Jews weren't great people!"

really? :-)

Pris said...

Craig,
Has your daughter been taught about the Revolutionary War, and how America won and gained our freedom?

The Founding Fathers? The Constitution? Our right to be free given us from our Creator?
The American Civil War which led to freeing the slaves?

Just asking!

Isn't it amazing that my generation wasn't taught abut sex in school, yet most of us got married at a fairly young age, and sex was a natural behavior! Wow what a shock? HaHa!

Anonymous said...

It seems we've come full circle then. Schindler's list probably never happened because we don't have a signed confession from Adolf Hitler to that effect. I suspect that Ann Frank’s diary is a pure fabrication also. Those damn Joos sure are clever, aren’t they?

Now that that’s out of the way, we can all embrace Obama's National Socialist Party because none of all that stuff during the Third Reich ever really happened.

I wonder if ducky’s hen dropped him on his head while he was still inside the egg.

Bob

Z said...

Oh, lovely! :

1. The individual doing the "study" states in the clips that she feels it's proof that the Holocaust should be part of the standard curriculum. That is called an agenda.

OF COURSE IT'S AN AGENDA. EVERY MAJOR HISTORICAL OCCURRENCE SHOULD BE IN THE HISTORY CURRICULUM OF EVERY SCHOOL AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME IN THE HISTORY THEY'RE STUDYING. SHE'S JEWISH, IS THAT WHAT BUGS YOU SO MUCH?
AGAIN, MY QUESTION IS ; WHO COULD EVER THINK SOMETHING AS BIG AS THE HOLOCAUST SHOULDN'T BE PART OF ANY HISTORY CURRICULUM?



2. Her sample size was ridiculous and her tape was probably edited. It was done expressly for The Blaze.

OH! SHE WROTE BOOKS ON JEWISH SUBJECTS FAR BEFORE THE BLAZE, BUT I'M CURIOUS...WHERE'S THE LINK SAYING SHE DID THIS EXPRESSLY FOR THE BLAZE? AND WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?? PEOPLE NEED TO HEAR WHAT OUR KIDS DON'T KNOW.

3. Actually I try not to. But when you get the usual junk about "libtards" and the ad hominems (and nothing else) from Sam then it's natural to get a little testy.

AAAH, DOES SAM MAKE YOU UPSET?
WELL, DUCKY, THEN STOP USING THOSE 'RAGUN' AND 'CHUCKLENUTS' AND EVERY OTHER RIDICULOUS REMARK YOU MAKE. I'VE PROVEN TO YOU MANY TIMES THAT YOU'RE THE ONE WHO STARTED THE NAME CALLING AND YOU KNOW THAT..

4. I equate intelligence with intelligence.

AND COLLEGE WITH INTELLIGENCE. WHY NOT ADMIT IT?

5. How did Obama get into this? Yes, I think Obama is right/center and a disappointment for the record. How does the thread have anything to do with the administration?

I'M NOT ONLY TALKING ABOUT THIS THREAD; THAT'S PRETTY CLEAR.
AND IT IS KINDA CUTE TO SEE YOU ARGUE ABOUT OBAMA NOT BEING LEFT ENOUGH BUT STANDING UP FOR HIM LIKE HIS LITTLE MOUTHPIECE BODY GUARD AT GEEEz :-)


6. I'll watch the sarcasm.

SARCASM?

7. I think Lubitsch in To Be or Not To Be really pulled one off by making a comedy about the topic. Chaplin to some extent in The Great Dictator though not his best.

YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED THE POINT THAT YOU'RE AN ELITIST WITH NO SENSE OF HUMOR.

8. Odd that you feel your the impresario over what people need to know although you kind of prove a point about agendas.

THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE NOR DOES IT ADDRESS MY POINT. WE'D ALL BE BETTER SERVED IN OUR DISCUSSIONS IF YOU WOULD STICK TO THE POINT AND NOT RED HERRING US INTO BOREDOM.

Z said...

Pris, I'm sure she's heard those terms; i'd sure like to hear HOW they're taught. :-)


Bob...excellent comment, very, very good. you nailed it

Z said...

Pris .."CREATOR"? you go TOO FAR!

That video from yesterday about the kids rapping homage to OBAMA is stood up for by my lefties here, but DO NOT MENTION GOD IN THE PLEDGE OR ANYWHERE ELSE, AND, WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT SING JINGLE BELLS IN PUBLIC SCHOOL :-)

Z said...

So! Let's talk about that, okay?

Yesterday, the lefties were all about "Let those kids rap with adoration about their Messiah, Obama...what's the big deal?"

And, WOULD they say "God? Sure, let the kids rap about God..what's the big deal?"

:)

Impertinent said...

Anyone wishing to see Schindlers List...FREE on your computer......copy this link...FREE to watch FULL Screen....the crimes of Amon Goeth cannot be denied ...BY Anyone.

You can also download the torrent file to burn to a DVD.

http://putlocker.bz/watch-schindlers-list-online-free-putlocker.html

Duckys here said...


That video from yesterday about the kids rapping homage to OBAMA is stood up for by my lefties here
-----
Stood up for?

No, it was called a tempest in a teapot.
Your fear of Barack's Citizen Army is silly.

Craig said...

Pris, Yes. 8th grade history started with the events leading up to the Revolution with emphasis on Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, Madison, all the biggies. The Industrial Revolution, inventors and statesmen. Mostly white men. Westward expansion, Louisiana purchase, Missouri Compromise and up through the civil war.

They studied the Declaration, including endowed by our Creator and Nature's God. She's learned that Jefferson's Creator is much, much closer to Spinoza's than Edwards of Whitefield. I taught her that, not the school.

They haven't studied the Constitution in much depth yet but she's got a better handle on it than A Guest, who wants to drive all the Muslims out of the country and claims fidelity to the Constitution. I missed the clause or amendment that limits citizenship to Christians and Jews.

Teen pregnancy rates are lower than the '50s and '60s. The difference is teens were married back then. I would rather my daughter didn't get married in her teens.

That video from yesterday about the kids rapping homage to OBAMA is stood up for by my lefties here

Who stood up for it? I said it was goofy. You're the one who thinks its a grave threat. An Army. Get a grip.

Z said...

WHATEVER...

FINE! Craig and Ducky! WE GET IT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

Good night!

:-)

Z said...

And don't look now, but that video on the post below is a good start..........Civilian Army?
WHY?
We have police, we have firefighters...WHY?

Z said...

Obama uses the term NATIONAL SECURITY FORCE..
it wouldn't sound good to say civilian ARMY, would it.
Must mean something different...although he talks about needing a force which will be “just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded as the US Military.”

Duckys here said...

Spinoza?

Oooops, Craig said a bad word.

Ed Bonderenka said...

There is no denying that Z is correct in her quote of Obama wanting a civilian force equal in might to the army.
That in itself so problematic that it gives good reaon to question his every move that indicates a proclivity to ignore the constitutional limits on his power.

Z said...

Craig, you pick the only true Deist in the founding fathers like most liberals do...Jefferson. Cracks me up every time. So you deny her even the choice of a John Adams and head her where you think she should be.

Ducky, "Spinoza"? So, you focus on him instead of all the comments to you? Good one...cracks me up.
By the way, who says Spinoza is right? :-) "oops!"

Ed...they don't care. In some ways, Democrats have a naive inability to think one of their own can be even half as evil as they think Republicans are...might was well let them keep believing....
All the myriad things we see about Obama don't matter to them. He's gold for them.

Craig said...

Obama uses the term NATIONAL SECURITY FORCE..

If you'd listened to more than a 21 second clip of His speech, you'd know it was in reference to His proposal to strengthen the Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, USA Freedom Corps and foreign diplomatic service. Organizations that spread American Values around the world and domestically through assistance and cooperation. Spreading our values by sprinkling cluster bombs or through the barrel of an M-4 hasn't worked out so well recently.

There's plenty to knock Obama on. Half baked conspiracies cooked up in the fevered brains at Daily Caller or Breitbart ain't it. Ducky and I aren't here to defend Obama, per se, but to gently nudge you and your readers toward reality.

Craig, you pick the only true Deist in the founding fathers like most liberals do...Jefferson

No, Z. Pris picked him when she asked if my daughter learned that our rights come from a Creator. Could she be talking about something other than Jefferson's Declaration?

So you deny her even the choice of a John Adams and head her where you think she should be.

How in the world do you come up with that from anything I wrote? Because I taught her a fun fact about Jefferson I'm denying her the choice of an Adams? Whaaa?

Fun fact for you. It's clear in Adams' letters to Jefferson that, later in his life, he doubted the divinity of Christ, found The Trinity to be absurd and was certain Heaven can be attained through good works. He considered himself a Christian, loved the Bible and Jesus' moral teachings. He just wasn't your kind of Christian.

A Lefty From NYC said...

What happens when a "progressive" preaches Holocaust denial in the name of "anti-Zionism"? America is about to find out.

There are people who will accept any damn thing as long as it's couched in the rhetoric of anti-Zionism. The extreme case of the phenomenon is Gilad Atzmon, a self-described leftist who just happens to think that the gas chambers of Auschwitz were likely a Jewish lie. Sorry, a "Zionist" lie. See? He's not an anti-Semite, he only hates "Zionists" -- like the ones who claim that Hitler killed six million Jews.

And, sadly, there are some people -- fortunately quite few, but not zero -- who are ready to accept Holocaust denial as long as it's packaged as a kind of "anti-Zionism."

Z said...

Craig, there is no 'MY' kind of Christian. There is only a Christian.


Lefty..."America's about to find out?"

Ed Bonderenka said...

Craig:""We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

Think what you want.

Craig said...

The 2008 campaign speech.

Today, AmeriCorps -- our nation's network of local, state, and national service programs -- has 75,000 slots. And I know firsthand the quality of these programs. My wife, Michelle, once left her job at a law firm and at City Hall to be a founding director of an AmeriCorps program in Chicago that trains young people for careers in public service. And these programs invest Americans in their communities and their country. They tap America's greatest resource -- our citizens.

And that's why as president, I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their efforts connected to a common purpose. People of all ages, stations, and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem -- they are the answer.

So we are going to send -- we're going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people. We'll call on Americans to join an Energy Corps to conduct renewable energy and environmental cleanup projects in their neighborhoods all across the country. We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, and to be there for our military families. And we're going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered, and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy.

We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded


Do you still think he was talking about a citizen army to take away your Freedumb? Those scary kids in the basement "brainwashed" into reciting personal goals and taking responsibility for themselves. Come to the light, Ed.

EzzZee said...

When the Jews can't sue some guilt-ridden nation, or hunt down another low rank German soldier to prosecute, or beat another group into submission to erect a Holocaust memorial or museum, they'll perform some faux "thanks", and of course all of it just grist for the Guilt-Mill.
The greatest man ever to encounter the Jews was Adolf Hitler. They ought to build a memorial to him.
A Holocaust denier, is only someone who cares to seek the truth about what really happened rather than parrot the common story.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Craig: I see nothing dumb about freedom. Obama and his crowd are all about removing my freedom. You quoted his entire speech, but the section I quoted was ad lib, not in the prepared text. Why? I see it as a slip of the tongue, a tip of the hand he intends or hoped to deal.
Socialists such as Hitler, Mussolini, et al, have always depended on a loyal cadre of street thugs. Why should I expect different from this extra constitutional tyrant wannabe?
You think I'm a rube or hick that follows the right wing line? It sounds like it.
How condescending.
You sound like an intelligent guy. Don't be a jerk.

Porter Stansberry. said...

The same financial problems from bank to bank and from company to company for the last six years have now found their way into the U.S. Treasury. I'll explain how this came to be. What it means is critically important to you and every American...
The next phase in this crisis will threaten our very way of life.
The savings of millions will be wiped out. This disaster will change your business and your work. It will dramatically affect your savings accounts, investments, and retirement.
It will change everything about your normal way of life: where you vacation... where you send your kids or grandkids to school... how and where you shop... the way you protect your family and home.
I'll explain how I know these events are about to happen. You can decide for yourself if I'm full of hot air.
As for me, I'm more certain about this looming crisis than I've been about anything else in my life.
I am literally afraid for my family's future, and I have taken drastic steps to prepare for what I know must inevitably happen next.
I know that debts don't just disappear. I know that bailouts have big consequences. And, unlike most of the pundits on TV, I know a lot about finance and accounting.
And this is all coming to a head much, much sooner than most Americans think.
Of course, the most important part of this situation is not what is happening... but rather what you can do about it.
In other words... Will you be prepared when the biggest financial crisis in America in more than 50 years, hits?
Don't worry, I'm not organizing a rally or demonstration. And I've turned down every request to run for political office.
Instead, I want to show you exactly what I'm doing personally, to protect my family, and to protect and perhaps even grow my money, and how you can prepare as well.
You see, I can tell you with near 100% certainty that most Americans will not know what to do when commodity prices – things like milk, bread and gasoline – soar. They won't know what to do when banks close... and their credit cards stop working. Or when they're not allowed to buy gold or foreign currencies. Or when food stamps fail... or their Social Security checks come to a halt.

Porter Stansberry. said...

In short, our way of life in America is about to change – I promise you. In this letter I'll show you exactly what is happening, and why it is inevitable.
Again, you can challenge every single one of my facts and you'll find that I'm right about each allegation I make.
Then, I hope you'll take action for yourself.
Will you act now to protect yourself and your family from the catastrophe that's brewing right now in Washington D.C.?
I hope so. And that's why I wrote this letter.
I'm going to walk you through exactly what I am doing personally, and what you can do as well. I can't promise you'll emerge from this crisis completely unharmed – but I guarantee you'll be a lot better off than people who don't follow these simple steps.
But I'm getting ahead of myself just a bit.
Let me back up and show you in the simplest terms possible what is going on, why I am so concerned, and what I believe will happen in the next 12 months...

The Greatest Danger
America Has Ever Faced?I believe that we as Americans are about to see a major, major collapse in our national monetary system, and our normal way of life.
Basically, for many years now, our government has been borrowing so much money (very often using short-term loans), that very soon, we will no longer be able to afford even the interest on these loans.
Again... I say these things as an expert in accounting and financial research.
You may not think things are THAT BAD in the U.S. economy, but consider this simple fact from the University of New Mexico Bureau of Business and Economic Research...
Even if ALL U.S. citizens were taxed 100% of their income for an entire year... that's every penny, earned by every citizen in the entire country... it would still not be enough to pay off our debts. Not even close. We'd still be trillions of dollars short.
That's absolutely incredible, isn't it? Yet, I've never seen this fact reported anywhere else. And right now, today, the federal government has to borrow 46 cents of every dollar they spend...spending that stands at a staggering average of $435.8 million per hour. How is that possibly sustainable?

Porter Stansberry. said...

Normally, I study these kinds of numbers when I'm looking at a business to invest in or to recommend to my readers. But lately I've spent most of my time looking into our national balance sheet, because as the banking system collapsed in 2008... all of the bad debts were absorbed by the world's governments. And it continues to this day.
We began the year 2013 with a net public debt that has more than doubled since the year BEFORE Barack Obama took office. These overwhelming public financial obligations are completely unprecedented in the history of our country, outside of the two major global wars we fought in the 20th century.
But even these incredible figures don't tell the real story. Or even half of it.
Various other government agencies and private companies taken over by the government also have obligations of nearly another $5 trillion. We've already booked complete losses on $140 billion worth of these obligations. Yet they remain completely off the federal balance sheet.
When you add these other, genuine, federal obligations that exist right now, today, you come up with a total debt figure that's much more than $20 trillion. Far more than half of these debts were assumed under President Obama.
We don't know what the full burden of these new and existing debts will be in total, over time.
That's because the Federal Reserves power to manipulate interest rates is unlimited—at least for now that's the case.
We don't know how much of Fannie's and Freddie's bad debts will eventually be covered by the U.S. Treasury. (We do know they have an unlimited line of credit... so it's a safe bet that we haven't seen the last of these charges.) Finally, we have no idea what the eventual costs of the Federal Reserve's ongoing expansion of the monetary base will be over the long term. There is one thing that's certain, however: these debts will not be free. They will carry a burden. Today, we have more government debt than any country in the history of the world. We have more debt than every country in the European Union... combined.
With each additional commitment we sink further and further into debt... closing in upon the moment that we can simply no longer afford even the interest payments on our obligations. And here is the part that really matters... the costs of maintaining our debts are about to skyrocket. Right now the Federal Reserve is manipulating interest rates down to almost zero. As a result, the interest rate at which our government can borrow money is at a record low level. In fact, the Federal Reserve has lowered its benchmark interest rate ten times since August 2007, from 5.25% to a zone between zero and 0.25%. Obviously, the current rate won't last forever.
But what will happen if the average real interest rate ends up being just 4% annually, and we pay it off over 30 years like a mortgage?
Incredibly, we'll spend $34.3 trillion to simply repay what we owe right now. If the rate ends up being 6%, we'll spend $43.1 trillion.
Now, of course, our politicians believe that through policy and currency manipulation, they can simply avoid paying any of these costs. They can order the Federal Reserve to prevent interest rates from ever rising to a level that would cost the American people anything. They believe they can manage the economy, so the debts of Fannie and Freddie won't go bad. They believe (without any proof whatsoever) that they can

Porter Stansberry. said...

stimulate the economy by even more deficit spending, so that it grows faster, allowing tax revenues to produce a surplus. Repaying these debts, they say, will be easy and painless.But you know better, my friend. You must know better. The wages of sin must be paid. And they will be paid. ust consider the plans of those who argue otherwise...
Paul Krugman, one of the most widely read and respected "economists" in the country wrote about this incredibly na├»ve and ridiculous solution in a January 7th, 2013 New York Times column. He said: "There's a legal loophole allowing the Treasury to mint platinum coins in any denomination the secretary chooses. Yes, it was intended to allow commemorative collector's items – but that's not what the letter of the law says. And by minting a $1 trillion coin, then depositing it at the Fed, the Treasury could acquire enough cash to sidestep the debt ceiling – while doing no economic harm at all."
Very few people, even our most influential economists, seem to remember that the utility of money and credit are based upon their soundness.
Money allows people to exchange goods and services widely, greatly increasing the specialization of labor and facilitating the economic magic of competitive advantage. Money also plays the critical function of facilitating communications between and among many disparate actors. Price changes guide producers and consumers.
But... when the money can't be trusted... this entire system breaks down. The price signals can't be relied upon. And it becomes harder and harder for people to exchange labor and capital.
Likewise, credit enables an economy to grow by facilitating the growth of savings and capital investment through real interest rates. But very few people are willing to delay consumption and trust their savings in an economy that refuses to pay savers any return above inflation for their savings.
And that's exactly where we are today. Although to most Americans everything seems calm... and that we are enjoying an economic recovery, I can promise you this: We are trapped. There is no way out. And nobody in Washington – not Republicans, not Democrats, and not even Tea Partiers – want you to realize how precarious our government's finances really are. They can't afford for you to understand this dilemma... or what it means.

Porter Stansberry. said...

Because here's the thing...And this is the big secret the government hopes you never understand...According to even my most conservative calculations (again, using numbers provided by the Congressional Budget Office) a debt default by the U.S. government would be inevitable – were it not for one simple anomaly...the one thing that has saved the United States so far. I'm talking about our country's unique ability to simply print more money. You see, the U.S. government has one very important weapon to use in this crisis so far: We are the only debtor in the world who can legally print U.S. dollars. And the U.S. dollar is what's known as "the world's reserve currency."

The dollar forms the basis of the world's financial system. It is what banks around the world hold in reserve against their loans.

Again, that's a secret most politicians don't understand:

As things stand now, the U.S. government can't go broke in any ordinary sense of the word because it can simply print dollars to pay for its bad debts. (It's been doing so since March of 2009.)

That might sound pretty good at first. Since we can always just print more money, what is there to worry about...?

Well, let me show you...Why Our Biggest Advantage is About to Disappear

You see, as things stand today, America is the only country in the world that doesn't have to pay for its imports in a foreign currency. Here's what I mean...

Let's say you're a German and you want to buy oil from Saudi Arabia. You can't just pay for your oil in German marks (or the new euro currency), because the oil is priced in dollars.

So you have to buy dollars first, then buy your oil.

And that means the value of the German currency is of great importance to the German government. To maintain the value of its currency, Germans must produce at least as much as they consume from around the world...otherwise the value of its currency will begin to fall, causing prices to rise and its standard of living to decline.
But in America...?
We've been able to consume as much as we want without worrying about acquiring the money to pay for it, because our dollars are accepted everywhere around the world. In short, for decades now, we haven't had to produce anything or export anything to get all the dollars we needed to buy all the oil (and other goods) our country required.
All we had to do was borrow and print more money.

Z said...

Craig, oh, my goodness!

So, 'public service' involves a "national security force?" My GOSH, WHO KNEW :-)
I wonder why we have policemen, FBI, CIA...
my goodness..suddenly we need a NATIONAL SECURITY FORCE?

Ed, people like Craig and Ducky just can't understand or offer others to have their own viewpoints...somehow, it really bugs them. I think it's because they don't hear them very often.

I heard a Jew this morning who has become a believer in Christ....she said that when she was studying for a Masters in NYC, she met a Christian "the first person I'd ever heard say he was a 'born again Christian'"...IN HER LIFE.
She said to him "You are one of THE smartest men I've ever met and you believe God made earth in 7 days?"
He said "yes, he did....do YOU believe that a cell jumped out of an amoeba in a puddle and it became you?..takes more faith to believe that than in God."

They became close; about 8 years later, she's become a believer and works full time for Jews for Jesus in NYC.
She had never HEARD a "born again Christian" She'd never THOUGHT about other ways of looking at things.

Am I here to say either is right?
No......not my blogging job. Am I here to say "Hurrah for her for opening her mind to another opinion?"
You BET. That IS my blogging job.