Tuesday, October 8, 2013

"HIS truth is marching on?"


I heard this while Googling some other music and thought about how many years we in America have been singing "HIS truth is marching on.....Glory, glory, hallelujah!"  and how we all know it's GOD's TRUTH that we have sung about for the last 152 years, during our success as a great country.   Odd that some are so eager to separate God from country only in the last 20 years ago......why NOW?....and how badly things seem to be going, isn't it?
Give it a listen.  Maybe it'll help? 

Z

52 comments:

Mustang said...

Extremely well done .... Bravo!

Constitutional Insurgent said...

"Odd that some are so eager to separate God from country only in the last 20 years ago......why NOW?....and how badly things seem to be going, isn't it?"

But maintaining an image of God and Country being intertwined to any degree, is a personal imperative of the faithful....not a function of the State.

As long as we respect the freedom of religious belief [and non-belief], we're pursuing a legal and moral path...in accordance with the whole of the citizenry.

Z said...

Mustang, isn't it nice...and isn't it interesting that those who say we've not been a Christian country ('the founding fathers were Deists', etc. :-) have been singing this for all these years?

CI, my point is that nobody minded singing this for all these years, of course.
Nobody's saying we want Christianity suddenly instituted in courts, etc.

Are you for taking down references to the Ten Commandments at the Supreme Court, and all the other many, many places Christianity is some way or another in government buildings, songs like this, etc?

Robert Sinclair said...

If one looks around at contemporary America, and do not see the signs of decay that preceded every other great civilization—corruption, crime, dishonesty, immorality, pollution, sloth—then we can only conclude that our society is in a state of denial. Or, perhaps they are trapped in a nether world between reality and Face Book. This is a result of a godless society, or one that demands we banish God in order to have a secular society. This nation was founded on the idea that our rights are inalienable—a gift of a Supreme Being, true even if someone doesn’t believe in God. Not good enough for the unenlightened secular purists, however, it has become necessary to rip and tear at the fabric of what America once was –and in fact, a blog lady cannot even post a beautiful song without some one with an agenda comes around to criticize her for it.

I say, look around again—but carefully this time. Is the Constitution being destroyed? When the American people through their ignorance have stood mute while politicians in Washington, including this president, shred the Constitution, where shall we next go to find human liberty and freedom from government tyranny. I suggest that we must not go further away from God, but closer to Him.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

Z - "Are you for taking down references to the Ten Commandments at the Supreme Court, and all the other many, many places Christianity is some way or another in government buildings, songs like this, etc?"

Philosophically, yes. A religious belief system is not a function of the State, precisely because we are not a 'Christian nation'. But realistically, I don't think it's worth the expenditure of funds to remove what already exists.

Z said...

Robert, so well said.
I'm glad you enjoyed this rendition of the song...I loved it...and it gets better and better as it goes; he starts out rough, but wow, what a video.
And yes, our country is definitely now caught between Facebook and reality. What kind of a people want to 'friend' someone that way? Says a lot. ugh


CI...actually, whether officially or not, this has been considered a Christian nation...there's no doubt about that.
And everyone lived together...Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist. Obviously, there has been a level of antisemitism over the years, and anti Zionism from our left, sadly, but, in general, until 9/11, we didn't much think of worrying about this stuff.

You may not think so, and I respect your beliefs, but if anyone doesn't see a downward trend since we DID start making attempts to take the Christian God out of our country, they're not paying attention. Or don't want to.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

Z - We're considered a 'Christain nation' by Christians, and only to the extent that it assauges them. The notion is not substantiated in our founding documents.

I attribute shifts in policies from individualism to collectivism for the harmful trends in our society, more so than any formal recognition of a belief system.

I also attribute the most recent social paradigm to...Facebook and reality TV.

But that's just my take.

Sam Huntington said...

Assuming that CI gets his or her way, what next shall we remove from the Supreme Court building? Should we remove the scales of justice, book of judgment, tablets of law, lamp of knowledge, fasces, scrolls, bill of rights, a blazing sun, and reference to Hammurabi’s Law, Justinian’s Law, and the Napoleonic Codes? All of these symbols represent that laws ultimately evolved from a higher authority, over time. Alternatively, perhaps CI prefers that we simply return to our previous barbaric existence where the largest and strongest among us shall govern.

Z said...

CI, no...my Jewish friends, all my life, have loved Christmas, have adored caroles, etc. They don't ascribe, but they would all admit that the founding fathers and the past of our country has been pretty Christian.

Of course the notion isn't substantiated in our documents.
I'm talking about something much more mysterious,, my bigger, and we'll never know the truth of that on this green earth.
And, of course, I never said I blame all our troubles today on the attempts at removing God from the American square.

I couldn't agree more with you about Facebook and reality TV.

Z said...

Sam, I'll let CI respond to you.

But, I remember miracles; like Squantos having learned English and come back to America and taught our first settlers what they needed to know. An Indian taken to ENGLAND so many years ago and RETURNED?
There were fires put out by storms in areas that don't get storms, there's the fact that our founding fathers were such amazing men of good character and important values. There is, indeed, the Constitution and all the splendor of that document.
Now our leftwingers will remind us all of the evils of America's past, but perfection is never attainable by man, and we have overcome so much.

until lately.

Ed Bonderenka said...

CI: If it's not worth the time and effort to remove, then let it go.
Obviously it's worth the time and effort (so little) to counter a blog post.
Sometimes I let things roll off my back that are counter to my religion.

Ed Bonderenka said...

And Kudos to Robert Sinclair.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

"Assuming that CI gets his or her way"

My Way? That religion is not a function of the [our] State? Oh, the horrors!

Stating the above [unless one ascribes to a theocratic model] does not in any way refute the contributions made by the faithful, that have informed and molded our present system. But we should also note that a religious model is not always just, nor effective, when governing a polity based on civil liberty.

And that there is a difference between religious liberty and religious preference, when taking civil liberty into account.

Constitutional Insurgent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Constitutional Insurgent said...

Ed - "If it's not worth the time and effort to remove, then let it go."

I'm not up in arms over the inclusion of religious tautology in our government apparatus, I simply disagree that a personal belief in a divine creator is upheld in our founding documents as a legitimate function of our government.

As much as I can say to an Atheist "why does it bother you so mmuch, if you don't believe"?....I can say to the faithful "why does it bother you so much if it isn't there?"

Ed Bonderenka said...

CI: I believe you will not agree with me, but bear with me.
Why can a government not have a religious influence of the majority populace?
If it is a government for the people and of the people, then it will have certain characteristics.
Just as I have certain attributes that are informed by my faith, my government should also be so informed.
And yet not discriminate against those not of that faith.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

Ed - "Why can a government not have a religious influence of the majority populace?"

It can, if expressely enumerated in it's guiding documents.

"If it is a government for the people and of the people, then it will have certain characteristics."

Absolutely. We are a people of many faiths and of none. To properly administer to the needs and rights of the people, if not expressely enumerated, then it should take an inherently neutral position towards an unproven belief system.

"Just as I have certain attributes that are informed by my faith, my government should also be so informed."

And our system of jurisprudence has indeed been informed by faith. But the tenets of that system should also have a secular value, in order to be just...agree?

The premise that the State should take a majority position, on a subject inherently...well...subjective, offers little recourse should that majority shift, and questions civil liberty protections of the citizen.

Constitutional Insurgent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Constitutional Insurgent said...

BTW, I hope nobody takes my disagreement with Z's intial question as merely being contrarian for it's own sake. I truly enjoy debating this subject, especially with those who bring rational arguments to my counter assessment.

The topics raised are why I come by Z's place every day.

Dave Miller said...

Ed, and by extension CI...

The simple act of influencing people based on the religious beliefs of people, can have a profound negative impact on those that believe differently.

Many conservatives like to say government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers, but if government chooses one religion over another, are they not doing the same?

Claiming a majority of people as adherents, should not give any religion the right to be the official religion of such a pluralistic nation.

CI, your line between faith and government is bright and I appreciate it. As a believer, negotiating between my faith and my responsibilities as a citizen, has always been a struggle. I believe it is daily battle reconciling the two sides.

I would not want it any other way. I don't think our government favoring any particular religion is the way to go. But if people believe we have that right, would they support, as I've asked before, states like Utah and Hawai'i giving official status to Mormonism and Bhuddism?

Like many, I certainly acknowledge the contributions of my fellow Christians throughout our history, but I think we have moved into a post Christian period here in the US.

God is still here, if we believe the bible, but sadly, for many, Christianity is more cultural in their lives. We've seen this with Catholicism & Judaism before and now it looks as if the Protestant strain of CHristianity is moving in the same direction.

It is not because of government as many believe. It is because people have made a determination that they do not want to live the Christian life as they have seen it, or as it has been presented in their churches and homes.

Duckys here said...

Well, John Steinbeck was certainly influenced by the lyrics. Maybe in a less fundamentalist direction.

Duckys here said...

Just what does it mean to be a "Christian nation".

To me it seems threatening. A term born out of fundamentalism as a code for militant evangelicalism.
Because, let's face it, when the term "Christian" is used we know who gets included and who waits in the lobby.

It;s the source of a lot of mischief including belief in exceptionalism. Belief that our legal system does not have its origins in British common law. Belief in empire and this will be our demise as we decay and fall like all empires.

Protestant fundamentalists are not known for their sense of compromise and if that movement has created a backlash such as the contemporary atheist movement you should not be surprised.

Pris said...

Z,
I love this. We sang this many times in our HS choir. The only thing I missed after I graduated from HS, was being in the choir! Mr. Pris was in it too.

I suppose these days school choirs may not be allowed to sing The Battle Hymn of the Republic! We sang gospels, Handel's Messiah, so many wonderful chorales.

It hurts me to think that today's kids don't know how it feels to have our hearts be full of joy as we sang such meaningful songs.

Anonymous said...

From Z of Geeez:

I just wanted to say NOBODY IS SAYING WE WANT A CHRISTIAN NATION FORCED ON ANYBODY and I'm not quite sure what was misperceived to that effect?

I also want to say to DAVE MILLER that I'm not quite sure where you get this "Christian cultural" opinion. Very odd.

I'd also like to offer the fact that Christians didn't feel it necessary to speak up much until they were pushed against a wall...particularly after 9/11 when many were saying Christians hated Muslims, etc etc.
Also, since atheists have got a bigger mouthpiece in the media, Christians have felt understandably beleaguered and saddened.

Faith is personal.

America was founded on Christian values.

Nobody ever said we want everyone in America to be CHristian.

Christians have always been fine about other faiths and there's no militarism evident.

This song has nothing 'Fundamentalist' about it.

thanks.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

Z - "Christians have always been fine about other faiths and there's no militarism evident."

Are you speaking of all Christians or just generalizing?

Anonymous said...

FROM GEEZ AT WORK (Z):

CI....I don't believe we can ever speak for every anything.

We can all come up with some kind of angry act..the Klan was considered 'Christian', as it what they did was Christian!

But, we don't hear much maligning of other faiths.

Kid said...

Z, I read your lead in to this post, and it just hit me. People are SO quick to find Christianity offensive in the public square but seem to take no issue with the muslim vermin.

That is all.

Duckys here said...

Someone make you observe Ramadan, kid?

You're talking nonsense.

Kid said...

Guess, I should have read the comments first.
- I'm not talking about CI here.
- I view the 10 commandments as based on respect for others life and property. That Americas laws started out that was as well, I view more as overlap rather than based on. The concept of civilized law is pretty obvious in where it needs to be based.
I'm talking more about the people that run suing religion back to the stonage because they see a manger display in a store window.
No one (Conservative) is suing them because they're atheists. We don't give a damn what they think as long as we don't have to pay for it and it injures no one.

But few of 'these people' seem to have a problem (verbally/visibly) with anything the hundreds of millions of violent muslim vermin are up to, including trying to force their way into American culture. I just find it paradoxically difficult to reconcile and give the atheists less due (as in zero) as a result.

Kid said...

Duck, crap like that doesn't happen in a day. It happens an inch a day until one day, your elected moderate muslims declare that you are now subject to sharia. People short on insight and intelligence have a problem with that which is why it seems to work so well. It's a popular political take over tactic. The dems have been doing it in earnest in modern history in the USA since LBJ.
Your welcome.

Duckys here said...

I'm talking more about the people that run suing religion back to the stone age because they see a manger display in a store window.
------
Huh?
A store is a private establishment.
The suit would have no standing.


Constitutional Insurgent said...

" It happens an inch a day until one day, your elected moderate muslims declare that you are now subject to sharia."

I think Kid draws an appropriate correlation to my position on a religiously neutral governmental standard.

If, as he prophesizes, Muslims start to become elected to office in the future at an alarming rate, and the aftershocks he illustrates, it would be for two closely related reasons - the precedence set by government adopting a preferential position - and a backlash at the particular preference set in that position.

As it stands, I worry much more about the influence the Dominionists and Christian Nationalist can wield, than I do Islam, but he raises a possibility.

Kid said...

About 5 years ago, The Church of England predicted England would be under sharia law in 30 years. Who knows but it seems a credible source of concern anyway.

Anonymous said...

From GEEEZ:

CI...that makes sense.
That you'd be more nervous about ANY Christian group over Islam is telling. I don't even know what Dominionists or nationalists are, but comparatively bad to terrorism?... they must be pretty darned BAD.
Always telling when people say they're more nervous about Christians...and, of course, it's my opinion that Christian fringe groups as I suppose you mean are so small that to worry is silly.
Also, 'true' Christian groups are the first to try to silence the nuts.
I admit Christians will probably get more media negative press than any muslim negative story will get. I remember when Jewish temples were being attacked about 15 years ago, here in LA and up in Seattle...they never told the country it was islamists who killed. Some people wondered about that; who knew it would get so bad now?

Ducky, I'm laughing here....Kid mentions a crèche/manger scene and stores...when you know so very, very well that town squares have started prohibiting them, too.
I wonder sometimes what nonChristians are so worried about.





Anonymous said...

FROM Z:

Kid, I would be $1000 that'll be true. And no more Royal Family.

The whole country will be as bad as their health care we're trying so hard here to emulate. IMagine?

Kid said...

Z, I personally DO believe Diana was killed because she was pregnant with a muslim baby,

Duckys here said...

@z ---
The whole country will be as bad as their health care we're trying so hard here to emulate.
-----
Not even close.

The Affordable Care Act was first proposed by the Heritage Foundation as a method to provide more widely available health insurance while maintaining the private market in insurance. For better or worse, there it is.
Now since we know Republicans don't oppose the private market, I have to assume either they oppose wide availability or have a superior proposal.

Maybe "One fish two fish, red fish blue fish" Cruz, their brilliant spokesperson, has a proposal.

So which is it?
My take is that they hate Obama more than they care about the country.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

"That you'd be more nervous about ANY Christian group over Islam is telling."

The Dominionist groups in the US currently wield far more political power than do any Muslim group. Where it concerns civil liberties, my placement of concern is well founded. As far as fringe, I suppose that's subjectively applied, but some of the most well known groups [AFA, Wallbuilders, etc] are of that theology, or closely allied to it.

"I wonder sometimes what nonChristians are so worried about."

As it concerns tautology and displays of symbolism within government What are Christians worried about if it is not present in that circle, but only in and by, private citizens....being a personal belief system and all?

Duckys here said...

Well, z, stores are quite free to ut up a creche.
My town puts up a creche in the square and there has been no issues and we have a significant Muslim population.

Boston puts a creche on the Commons. It hasn't been challenged.
But you never know with liberals.



Impertinent said...

"A store is a private establishment.
The suit would have no standing..."


Unless they're pressured with a boycott.

Kid said...

Reality.
Not a single republican voted for oblabbercare. 70% of the country was and continue to be against it. Considering at least 30% of the country are blabbering morons, we can say 100% of the country was and is against it.
It will destroy health care in America.
What the hell duck, you're polluting your won lives at warp speed. And considering you think it's a good thing, we can assume you are 0 % prepared for the consequences.

That's going to make for some hilarity for those of us who are.

Guess how many people signed up for this evil crap in California so far. Less than 100. HAHhahaaaaaaa.

Duckys here said...

It will destroy health care in America.
-----
25 words or less how?

Kid said...

Pay a lot more, get a lot less.

8 words.

Don't worry duck. I'll call the plays as I envisioned them years ago. Then As they happen, I'll point them out to you in real time.

Kid said...

Anyway, America was most certainly created, founded, and guided very strongly at its core and its principles on the basis of a Creator. It wasn't the sadistic pedopile version. It was God. You can argue whether it was Christianity or not, but it wasn't far off from that version of one of the most predominant religions at the time.

The core principles stand the test of time.
-Each of us granted certain unalienable rights. ie, defend our lives in any way necessary.
-Respect for each other's liberty
Very simple.
We've become a seething mass of control freaks. The founders would puke.
Do what you want, just don't tread on 'me'.
It's Simple.

Anonymous said...

FROM GEEZ:
my own doc said "don't worry...I'll only have 40,000 more patients" :-)

Less R&D

Less personal care - we led the world; we won't anymore.

Long waits as England and Canada have

losing your doc because he's retiring because of this mess

having to hear your liberal doctor whine "why did people vote for Obama?" when HE did. So quickly we forget. ANd that is a true story.

FreeThinke said...

Let nothing disturb thee,
Nothing affright thee.
All things are passing.
Patient endurance
Attaineth to all things.
In whom God pleaseth
In nothing is lacking.
Alone God sufficeth.


~ St. Teresa - lines written in her breviary
as translated by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

"Lift thine eyes to the mountains from whence cometh our help. ..."

Let us raise our thoughts to the Sustaining Infinite away from earthly care and woe. We must pray for inner peace. The world will never be what we would like it to be, but the constant purification of our thoughts and desires through prayer helps us to perfect ourselves, despite the troubles of the world, and thus overcome fear and consternation.

"The ungodly are not so, but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Therefore the way of the ungodly shall perish ..."

REJOICE! The Lord is with us.

Anonymous said...

Three more Jews win the Nobel Prize today.....I'm waiting for the Arab street to catch up from the one they have to the 150 the Jews have....so sweet.

Yes from polio to all other life saving vaccines...the Jews have virtually saved humanity from so many ills....while the Arabs give us Islam!

Anonymous said...

FT; I'm reading Teresa of Avila now... great humor, self effacement...lovely stuff.
Her book INTERIOR CASTLE might appeal to you. It's about prayer and is really, really good.

The thing we all can learn from her is yes, God suffices in ways that are astonishing and good, but while we might not be OF the world, we are IN the world, and as I often say here....we're here to do His work...to be disciples and better this place as much as we can.

Anonymous..very interesting. The intelligence of the Jews certainly does outshine so many others; yet we have people like our president who love to praise and enumerate all the wonders of Islam.
Sadly, it's been less than 'wonder'ful for the last 500 years or so.

Anonymous said...

FT..(from Z AGAIN)..
BUT...coming off or your comment and my last response...I agree with you about God's sufficiency and was thinking today about how we really should put ALL our trust in Him. I thought "If we truly believe, how can we do otherwise? You believe or you do not believe!" Then I thought of how we all just can't climb up a mountain and sit there feeling His sufficiency because we need to LIVE in this world.
I have a dear friend who's a pastor, I know a few, and they must support their families no matter how much they rely on God.

And they talk politics and are mostly Conservatives because they feel God's will for us is to WORK, that "all else is vanity" (read Ecclesiastes, it's gorgeous and important)...we're to help but we must help ourselves and our own first and foremost.

your thoughts?

Anonymous said...

Liberal mantra..

In the medieval-liberal worldview, gun control stops violence like that in Chicago or Detroit.

Solar panels are the energy way of the immediate future; fracking is not. Voting fraud is almost nonexistent and mostly a right-wing conspiracy trope.

High-speed rail is an efficient and economical means of transportation. The problem with public assistance is that there is too little of it, not too much.


Affirmative action ensures fairness. Climate change is proven; further debate is counterproductive, and disturbing data to the contrary are little more than propaganda of the ignorant.

Now...don't fret or argue...learn it and embrace it.

Z said...

by the way, CI....I appreciate your nice compliment about the questions I raise here at GeeeZ. That means a lot to me.

Liberalmann said...

Johnny Cash was a liberal Democrat. Lol!