Tuesday, February 21, 2012

Would you attack? I'm carrying this post into Wednesday post because the conversation is excellent. Join in COMMENTS..I added a question to my post, so please answer that, too:

If you were the American President (and I wish most of my readers were), what would YOU do to guarantee Iran won't hit Israel or us?

And, if you were President of Israel, would you do something without America if the trend of Iran's threats and their nuke buildup/capabilities continued as it has?   I'm curious.

THE ADDED QUESTION IS THIS:   What would Iran have to do before YOU thought that America should strike them in some way, not necessarily a nuclear strike but some kind of physical strike (not sanctions)?


z

84 comments:

Lisa said...

I don't think right now it's a good idea because I think it will just extend tensions there for many more years.
What I hope is that Iran understands that if they do use a nuke against Israel that will be our cue to annihilate them.
I just hope President Hope and Change has the will.
I wish we could all just get along.

Z said...

I sure do share your last sentiment, Lisa! You and Rodney King :-)

I don't think we'll do a thing if they bomb Israel myself.....and I try not to remind myself that the Left in this country will never hit anybody just to protect ourselves; only if they hit us first, and even then they'd probably say we deserved it. I suppose that's exactly what Iran's hoping for, don't you?

Ducky's here said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ducky's here said...

Israel isn't going to do a thing.

They don't have the experience to take out a hardened target at that distance and they learned thier lesson when Hexbollah sent a shower of rockets after Likud got frisky in southern Lebanon.

Leticia said...

I would let Iran know that Israel was under United States protection would suffer dire consequences should they feel the need to attack. Blood would be shed, and it would be theirs.

If I were prime minister of Israel, I would protect my nation regardless.

sue hanes said...

z -

1. If I were President of the United States I would personally meet with Mr. Amedinejad - and talk to him reasonalbly about how we should all get along together in this World.

I'm sure I could convince him to not do anything rash - to Israel -
or anyone else - for that matter.

2. I don't think Israel will make a move against Iran without their ally - the United States - and if they did it probably wouldn't be such a good idea.

Dave Miller said...

Is the United States, not Israel under a clear and present danger? Would and attack on Israel even constitute a grave and gathering threat, to use Sec. Rice's words?

Is a belief in the right of the US to preemptively strike another country if we believe our interests are threatened a right that we would affirm in other countries, or is it just a value for the us?

Are we willing, if we are to defend Israel, to risk WW III?

Lisa said she hopes President Obama has the will, right after she says we should not strike first... the will to what Lisa? Retaliate?

I doubt that I would strike first, but there are no simple answers here, as even the Bush Admin found out. This issue was present then and they too did everything possible to avoid having to respond, much like I gather, the Obama admin is also doing...

Impertinent said...

"If I were prime minister of Israel, I would protect my nation regardless...",

Regardless of that fact that an Israeli city or two might be wiped off the face of the earth? What kind of an Israel would be left to counter such devastation?

Would she be justified in launching it's own Armageddon or holocaust against all of the ME?

Because that's what it would take in order to cripple their enemies. It won't be just Iran..it can't be them alone.

In order for Israel to even consider "survival' after an attack like that...sher'd have to retaliate against all current and future enemies. Knowing that a strike on Iran alone wouldn't stop the ensuing mayhem and chaos...as the entire Arab / Islamic world would then be energized to fight to wipe out what's left of Israel. They'll smell blood in the water and join forces to go in for the kill.

So, i n my estimation I think Israeli leaders know this and are prepared to take out the Syrians, Lebanese, Saudi's, Yemenis and every other avowed enemy of theirs. And if it's true that they have 200+ nukes....it wouldn't be that hard to do.

We'll all be involved in the conflict too. Muslims here ( and there are thousands of cells ) will begin to attack from within.

Marshall law will follow as well as the suspension of civil rights...why do you think Obama signed that law a few weeks ago giving the Feds to detain without cause...or warrant, American citizens?

Z said...

Dave, do you believe Iran when they promise to hit us or Israel?

Do you want an Iran with nuclear capabilities? Do you understand how much our world changes and more dangerous than we'd ever dreamt because they do?

What about the fact that the muslim loons regard 2012 as the year the 12th Imam comes back, after enough gentile and Jewish blood is shed?

Imp, from what I'm hearing, the last thing Arab countries want is a powerful Iran; I'm thinking they won't come to Iran's help though they do seem to disdain Israel, that's for sure.
I believe our being in the conflict, too, is everything the muslim loon Ahmedinejad wants, by the way. Complete annihilation. We can't be on this earth because we're not muslims, remember.

Ducky's here said...

Imp, from what I'm hearing, the last thing Arab countries want is a powerful Iran ...

-----

Absolutely, with Iraq as an Iranian ally, the Saudi royal family is getting nervous.

Impertinent said...

Let's not forget that the Saudi's can hardly be considered "allies" at all. ( Just as Egypt no longer is thanks to Obummers letting loose the MB to reclaim all of the ME under the Muslim swastika of the "Arab Spring" ) Only in the sense that we've being held hostage by the oil thieves that they are and OPEC.

So we're only allies so long as the flow isn't interrupted. Which is another...if not the best reason to cut loose our deep, shallow water , off shore and continental drilling and to flood the markets with oil and natural gas.

The little jitters in the markets today are nothing compared to the complete shutdown of 18% of our oil imports from there.

The XL Pipeline would have supplied over 800,000 barrels a day to US refiners....half of what we import.

Z said...

Ducky, that's right. And while the people of Iraq seem to have been against it, the leaders of Iraq are certainly cozying up to Iran.

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/14/9435882-iraqis-unable-to-defend-their-borders-as-us-exits

Z said...

Imp: You said "( Just as Egypt no longer is thanks to Obummers letting loose the MB to reclaim all of the ME under the Muslim swastika of the "Arab Spring" )"
Very well said.

But I do think the saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" comes into play with the Saudis and us vs Iran. I think Bush did better at courting the Saudis than Obama did, even if he did bow down low enough for us to have been able to eat off his back when a muslim king came into his line of vision!

Impertinent said...

"I would personally meet with Mr. Amedinejad - and talk to him reasonalbly..."

You do that...I hear he's as funny as BM and hates women just as much. Can you share some of that brew you're mixing in your basement with the rest of us?

Impertinent said...

"But I do think the saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend,,"

If we had any leader with a spine...he'd see that now is the time to let the whole house of cards ( tents ) fall. With an Iran involved in a war against Israel...it presents a unique ability to watch them all self immolate.

Impertinent said...

We have been at war with the ME countries since the early 70's. Hijackings, boycotts, our embassy in Iran sacked ( an act of War )..yet we've yet to retaliate in the manner in which we should have. We've allowed the formation of a criminal enterprise called OPEC and have been paying the price ever since.

In over 30 years we haven't had a president who has said...ENOUGH. Here's what we're doing. No imports...no exports. Nothing..no Microsoft....No Apples...no vehicles.....no weapons. No "military assistance" to be used against our allies.

How have we ignored our technological might...our entire industrial complex..our entire future prosperity to third world savages?

I'd like to be a fly on the wall in any room where the Joint Chiefs get together.

I've never seen our future existence and potential as a nation so threatened in my lifetime...as it is now.

DD2 aka Debonair Dude said...

We are telling Israel not to do what they must do. Well what are they supposed to do when they are threatened by a bunch of lunatic's with an Atomic Bomb? If Obama won't do it, the let Israel do it. A a Nuclear Iran, is just as dangerous to America as they are to Israel. The bomb in the hands of a Radical Islamic Nation is just about the worst thing that anyone can imagine.
At least Newt Gingrich is brave enough to say the truth, and tell it as it is.
Its a shame that Obama wont stand with Israel. Especially after he got America involved with Egypt and Libya,and Africa and where ever else a Muslim Nation needed his help, just ask Quadaffi, or ask Mubarek!
And that other imbecile Leon Panetta is saying that he believes sanctions are working against Iran, and there is no need for Israel to attack Iran. Is he kidding? Does he really think that Iran gives a crap about his sanctions? Gas prices are about to hit $5.00 a gallon and "OUR" sanctions are working? Who side is Panetta on? All hell is about to break loose and Leon Penatta along with Barack Obama is reducing our Military. Figure that one out.
Someone should be telling Israel that it's their country and they have every right to take whatever actions are necessary to defend themselves. If we had a real leader in the White House he would help Israel the same way that he helped the Muslim Brotherhood Hoodlums.
Ir's about time that we settled things with Mr. Ahmahdinijad once and for all, and let him know that they all can rot in hell.

Z said...

"I've never seen our future existence and potential as a nation so threatened in my lifetime...as it is now."

There is no doubt about that, Imp.
Our physical well being and our societal/moral well being all seem to be falling apart at the same exact time.

Z said...

Dude, how can sanctions be working when they're threatening to cut France and England off from their oil? Wouldn't they miss that incoming money if it was on top of sanctions working? No money coming in because of sanctions, no money coming from 2 huge oil-using countries? Something isn't adding up. No, they're not hurting.
The people might be, but those in charge of the nukes aren't.

Impertinent said...

"when they're threatening to cut France and England off from their oil? Wouldn't they miss that incoming money if it was on top of sanctions working?.."

Z...my understanding is that France gets something like 2% from Iran and England not much more. It's Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal that get the most.

However what I think you fail to see is the payoff to China for not backing the sanctions along with all the other "evil" empires ( yes Russia has degenerated into what it was pre 1989 ) is that market which will continue to buy from Iran. So they won't lose squat in revenue.

Which is why we should do what we need to do....block all their exports from the seas. Just like with the Cuban / russian missile crisis.

Why do you think Iran is making a naval presence in the MEd and the Gulf? If it's a challenge they want ( because these moves are designed to let us know that they can move a fleet in opposition to ours ) then it's a challenge they should get.

Alas...there's not a Nimitz among them though.

sue hanes said...

Imp - No Brew Involved Here.

Just the honest and forthright opinion of a housewife - and certainly I am entitled to that - Imp.

Dave Miller said...

Z, no, I do not believe Iran and their belligerent promise, just as I did not believe Iraq had WMD.

I also know that as a country, we stood toe to toe with the USSR and their many nukes and never heard rumblings like this for a first strike.

Do people really think Russia and China will sit idly by if we decide to strike Iran?

As for the 12th Iman stuff, I am gathering you are saying that there are some in Iran, or perhaps many, who might be actively trying to bring about that prophecy.

How is that different from extreme right wing Christians praying and hoping for the apocalypse in Israel so that Jesus can come back? Many in that group are active in movements to push our politicians toward actions that they hope will bring that about so we can all ultimately get to heaven...

Impertinent said...

"How is that different from extreme right wing Christians..."


Are you daft? Answer...Cause there's NOT 1.5 BILLION Radical Christians seeking that.

OK...so theres not all of them....maybe 10%.? Do the math on that.

As far as "Radical" Christians....yea they number as many as those who speak in tongues.

Z said...

Dave, odd, isn't it. I've never in my life heard any Christian anywhere talk about that, but....there must be a few.
To compare them, of course, is slightly odd if one knows much about the love of Christ and the juxtaposition of muslims hoping for as much bloodshed as possible so their hero will appear. But, if you draw correlations, that's your privilege, of course.
A really amazing thing I hear is "if WE have nukes, why shouldn't Iran have nukes.." that's a new frame of mind that's really astonishing....but, our populace has been trained to distrust us even more than terrorists in some cases, giving them the benefit of the doubt ..

Russia scared us at the time, didn't it...lots of talk about bomb shelters, etc., but the fear and the reality has really never quite been like this. I suppose it's partly because the middle eastern mentality's a little different than the Russian....though the Russians certainly aren't trustworthy.

And no, I don't think Russia or China would get involved; although this might be the time if they're nutty enough (which I don't think) because we are so greatly cutting our military with Obama as if we had no worries.

Z said...

Imp, good points..but I think a lot more speak in tongues :-)

Impertinent said...

"although this might be the time if they're nutty enough (which I don't think) because we are so greatly cutting our military with Obama as if we had no worries..."

Notice that this last occurred under another military hating ex facto ole hippy president? Clinton?

China is hardly a worry Z. Once more...even if Pres sheet for brains does cut us back....he's not going to decommission any current Naval vessels.

China has one..ONE crummy 1980's "aircraft carrier" bought from the former USSR's Baltic, rusting hulk of scrap heaps.

We currently have 11 nuke powered carriers all over the planet. Matter of fact...one naval force in the Hormuz area right now. If I were an Iranian naval officer....I'd be crapping a camel now after seeing that and the 10 ships that escort her. One carrier has an air force larger than 70% of the worlds air forces.

We are far from being neutered despite Panetta's and the moron in chiefs ignorant, illl informed, traitorous actions to make us weaker.

Kid said...

First a little background:
Back during the heat of the cold war with Russia, our submarines were able to locate and trail each one of their subs without being noticed. At one point, our subs simultaneously 'Pinged' all of their subs at a predetermined moment in time. This told Russia we could destroy all of their mobile nuclear capacity at will. Back during the Reagan days.

So..., What I would have done is destroy Iran's nuclear ambitions a couple years ago when they were first getting started. If Russia wants to help Iran, bring it on. Russia is less capable to do jack about squat than they were in the 80's. They're a broken country.

China? They have ONE Aircraft Carrier that they bought from Russia and refurbished. Please.

Kid said...

PS - Otherwise regards the mullah's..

It is their religion to kill us. Ya understand that right? It's not for oil, or land, or revenge, it is their Religious Duty to kill us and make the world a worldwide islamic nightmare.

Kid said...

Well, geee. If anyone has any questions about islamic depravity, Check out one of today's posts at Blackfive written by a retired SEAL

Impertinent said...

" Russia is less capable to do jack about squat than they were in the 80's. They're a broken country..."


Exactly...thats what I inferred too. Look. KID..Russia reminds me today ( with that pecs / six pack clown Putin ) of a flea with an erection, doing the backstroke down the ICW, blowing his horn to the bridge tender to open the drawbridge.

"China? They have ONE Aircraft Carrier that they bought from Russia and refurbished. Please."...

Please...didn't I say that too...LOL. Don't plagiarize KId. ;-)

Impertinent said...

"This particular group of AQIZ not only sodomized young boys for allah..."

The POS must not believe that there 72 whores waiting for them in "paradise". Either that or our bombing has diminished their supply of goats to fornicate with?

How..can anyone not see Islam as a retrograde, fascist, degrading, humiliating political theology even worse than Nazism?

In any civilized, clear thinking world...Islam would be banned from practice...their adherents jailed and their terrorist cells ( mosques ) destroyed.

IMHO...Hitler screwed up...if he had declared Nazism as a "religion"...we'd still have it's scourge on this planet today.

Instead...we have..Islam.

Kid said...

Putin? Erection? Good Lord Man, one of these vermin are gonna hire him to do an erectile dysfunction disorder commercial! Mum's the word!

Actually, Bird is the word....

Well, I've already admitted it. I'm a plagiarizer. A womanizer, a Cad, and an Infidel !

Kid said...

"How..can anyone not see Islam as a retrograde, fascist, degrading, humiliating political theology even worse than Nazism?"

Cowardice.

Impertinent said...

"Well, I've already admitted it. I'm a plagiarizer. A womanizer, a Cad, and an Infidel!"''


I knew we could see eye to eye. You're an honest man Kid....can we be...friends?


As-Salāmu `Alaykum...practice it...they may spare our heads.

Kid said...

Friends? But of course Monsieur! Sacre Bleu!

Ducky's here said...

And no, I don't think Russia or China would get involved
=========
Got a hunch, bet a bunch.

What could possibly go wrong?

Big risk when you can't even demonstrate a material threat to Israel.

Impertinent said...

I was just talking to my brother, a two tour Combat experienced Marine ( one is always a Marine for those that think ones age makes them an EX Marine...there's no such thing among Marines..)

"Today, you are Marines. You're part of a brotherhood. From now on until the day you die, wherever you are, every Marine is your brother. Most of you will go to Vietnam. Some of you will not come back. But always remember this: Marines die. That's what we're here for. But the Marine Corps lives forever. And that means YOU live forever."

Hopefully...the above quote explains what a Marine is...and does. The oath...the commitment. I worship my brother...I worship and honor his service, his bravery, his heroism ( 2 Purples, One Bronze ). His love for his country by volunteering...( imagine that ) to stay and finish his job. That's a Marine.

I bring this up today because I've been following the witch hunt trials of the "Haditha" Marines. Those brave Marines that were labeled by the scum bag POS Jack Murtha ( RIP you un Marine scumbag busturd...may you rot in hell without one Marine to ease your pain and suffering )...

EVERY HONORABLE, DEDICATED, GOD FEARING MARINE...HAS BEEN ACQUITTED.

NOT GUILTY. NOT GUILTY of the crimes that kerry, Murtha, Kennedy, Waters , Boxer and every other traitor, scoundrel nut bag liberal, America hating, Military hating, Marine hating POS accused them of.

Have you seen this on CBS, NBC, ABC or MSNBC?

I haven't. And there lies what's wrong with America today...that the liars and troglodytes of the media will never....never apologize.

I did tonight on Skype...to my brother and every Marine that has ever served this great country.

Impertinent said...

"Sacre Bleu!"

Huh?

Kid said...

Sacre Bleu

Yes, murtha is an Ex marine. Most are Former Marines.

This and all things like it are what the Ex KGB agent describes as 'Demoralization"

Impertinent said...

Oui, murtha est un Ex marine. Plus est d'Anciens soldats de la marine....


Toutefois, Murtha est un morceau authentique de merde...OK?

SCdottr2012 said...

Russia is fully capable of pushing Iran to do its dirty work.
These people excell at it.
Think about who really profits if Iran gets out and does something and gets waxed, think about what happens in America if we lose all our oil supplies.

Last I checked, lots of jet fuel and other goodies moved by use of oil and its byproducts.


There is always something or someone standing behind the ones yelling the loudest.

As for poor Israel, they will do what they must for where else can they go?

Impertinent said...

A Harvard conference today called for the elimination of the "Jewish" state.

Harvard?

Isn't Obummer from..."harvard".

Kid said...

Last I heard, no one claims to have seen obama at havard, and he won't release his grades.

Everyone realizes he would release his grades of he'd gotten 3.0 or better eh? If he actually Was there, he was Put there - sent through and all else faked.

But again, no one claims to have ever seen his lazy, never had an actual job in his life, dope using self there.

Impertinent said...

" think about what happens in America if we lose all our oil supplies."


All of our oil supplies?

Do you know that we get 53% of our oil supplies...from CANADA? And Mexico...and the shits in Venezuela ( Please boycott CITGO when Hess is an available substitute! )

So...if we were to suffer a short disruption ( like we did in 1976 ) would that cripple us or them? If we stood our ground and accepted the small loss ( only the filthy speculators would gain...which is why why must out law this for national security reasons )...

we're already driving less ...consuming less...the price would drop. Along with a CIC...a brave one and one who wants America to prosper ( not Obullshit ).

And a Directive to the oil whores ...that exporting oil / gas supplies to foreign customers is illegal in a time of war or national security.

But..we won't get the fraud in chief on board.

He needs suffering...he wants suffering..he has to have those dependent, ignorant dopes on his tit.

Impertinent said...

"Last I heard, no one claims to have seen obama at havard, and he won't release his grades."


No shit. As anywhere else in his "illustrious" career at any school. Not even one hot hippy chick has come forward to say...I know that dude...I was banging him when he was a freshman.

Sorry girls....but that's just how it is...and how it should be. Someone...anyone...comes forward and says that they know this creep.

Ticker said...

Dave Miller As for the 12th Iman stuff, I am gathering you are saying that there are some in Iran, or perhaps many, who might be actively trying to bring about that prophecy.

Yes indeed Dave and AJ is a disciple of this teaching. He has spent millions building a road to where he thinks the Iman will travel and a shrine to welcome him.

As far as Christians praying for Israel to do something to bring about the end and the return of Jesus, I don't know of any . Can you name those you claim are doing such or are you once again making things up to suit your own agenda? Jesus will not be caused to return by any action taken by man at least according to the Book I read. Maybe you should read it sometime, it's called the Holy Bible.

Silverfiddle said...

I would not attack. I would be pouring millions into communications, ammo and other materiel for the Iranian opposition, unlike Obummer.

beamish said...

Wow. Ducky has gone from telling us Israel's response in the July War to Hezbollah's and Hamas' rocket attacks was "disproportionate" to their "bottle rockets" to telling us Israel "learned its lesson" from same said "bottle rockets."

Now, we know Ducky (like all leftists) is geopolitically illiterate (confusing Ehud Olmert's Kadima! Lamiklatim! party for Likud) but perhaps we can ask Ducky as a Catholic how President Santorum will protect America from Satan.

Does the CIA have any data on Hell's order of battle?

Z said...

Ticker, I'm the one who originally mentioned the 12th Imam in a comment here to Dave.
And you are so right; as if Jesus was coming due to something people did. Unimaginable..unscriptural.
thanks for your comment.

Dave Miller said...

Well thank you Ticker for letting me know the name of that book. The Holy Bible. I'll have to check it out. Sounds interesting. I do seem to recall a passage in it where Jesus equates calling another names with murder.

You all might want to look up the likes of John Hagee, Charles Ryrie, and John Darby for their views on when Jesus will return. There is indeed a block of believers within Christianity who believe they are to do everything possible to bring about an atmosphere that will cause Jesus to return.

An apocalypse in Israel certainly falls within this realm and many actually pray for this, and give significant somes of money because of this wrong headed belief.

As you've stated many times to us liberals Z, just because you are not aware of it does not mean it isn't true.

sue hanes said...

Z - Attack us first.

Z said...

Dave, I wasn't clear; I said I'd never heard a Christian speak of this and I meant in person; friends, teachers, pastors, etc.
I know of Hagee and probably there are christians who actually think this can happen because of something they did. THey obviously haven't read the Old Testament.
I believe Hagee also has said Jesus did not come to be the Messiah. So.......some christian.

I know it's important to you that nobody ever condemns any muslims for terror or whacko ideas of such hatefulness that they'd wish us in a bloodbath so their hero could come back, but there are millions who do feel that way and I'd not compare that to Christians of good conscience and scriptural knowledge, as Ticker has said in his comment.

my line about things being true even if we're not aware of them certainly does not only apply to liberals.

KP said...

I agree with Ducky, Israel will not attack without our assuring them we would finish the job because they cannot. And I agree with Silverfiddle, we should not attack at this point.

Imp said: "Not even one hot hippy chick has come forward to say...I know that dude..."

It will be interesting to see if either Geitner or Hillary write a book next year detailing 'inside the Obama administration' the last three years as they both appear to be headed off the payroll.

Z said...

Hi, KP (I spoke to our buddy and she's going to write you...her mother cried when she told her about the situation xxx!)

re Israel, I heard some experts on TV the other day that we're underestimating Israel if we think they can't finish the job. Who knows for sure? Why believe Iran's got what they say they do and not Israel, right?

I don't think this is the time to attack, either, but I think that we can't wait till Tel Aviv or Cleveland are gone, either. It's always "We'll wait" among Americans because we're fine, caring people but I don't think even our covert experts quite understand the mentality over there and I don't trust it.

In war, we try for no collateral damage; in the war on terror, our enemies thrive on collateral damage "the more dead the better"...

Christopher - Conservative Perspective said...

This is simple.

Nuke, tactical nukes that is, Tehran, Cairo, Damascus, Beirut, Riyadh, Islamabad, Tripoli and Amman to send a clear and most convincing message their crap will not, forever more, be tolerated in a civilized world period.

They want to live in the stone age, well lets give it to them,,, now!

Any people that support teaching and instilling absolute hatred in their youth, from birth, is the enemy of all and that enemy has long been humankind's worst - Satan.

There can be no other way to analyze this and must be stopped forth with.

Always On Watch said...

If only we had a crystal ball and could see how much Iran is bluffing and how significant a threat Iran really is!

Right now, it's all a game of chicken.

As to the questions:

1. There is no guarantee other than strategic pre-emptive strikes.

2. Israel doesn't desire to strike without America (approval, at least). Obama isn't going to give that approval, IMO.

3. Certainly, if Iran strikes one of our warships or other naval vessel, the US should strike Iran. If Iran did the unthinkable to Israel (nuke attack), we'd take action.

But what do I know? Not much.

I hope that our intelligence has accurate information.

And one more thing....Is this another "Cuban missile crisis"? Who will blink first?

Right Wing Theocrat said...

Hit them first before they hit us or anyone else. Then prepare for the inevitable wailing and gnashing of teeth over it from the left.

Unless off course you're a liberal president, then they won't have any lasting problems with it.

Simple Observer said...

Nothing.

I would already have sent a death squad of DF over to eliminate the leadership of Iran by arming Iranian rebels and allowing them to drag the dead bodies through the streets in victory.

Killing isn't wrong. Murder is wrong. Big difference.

FairWitness said...

I don't see how we should wait until Iran attacks Israel with nukes to respond. "The best defense is a good offense" seems to apply here.

If I were President, I'd ally our nation and military more closely with Israel. I'd direct our military to plan an attack on Iran, take out their nuclear facilities and plan to invade Iran.

I just don't see how we're going to get a handle on this threat to all of humanity without being willing to take these bastards out. I would not wait for sanctions to work, because there are too many other nations, Russia & China - for example, that don't participate in the sanctions.

Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Israeli government should take all measures necessary to protect themselves BEFORE Iran achieves deliverable nuclear weapons. They need to act with or without the USA. I hope we replace Obama in November with a President who will stand up and fight radical Islamic regimes that threaten free people across the world.

Steve said...

Three points need to be emphasized...
1a) Only one comment thus far acknowledged a key reality here: An Iranian bomb is far more than an existential crisis for Israel; it is equally an existential crisis for Europe. Iran has missiles and is furthering developing them, that can deliver nuclear warheads to all of Europe.
1b) Not only won't it before long that their missiles can reach the US too, but setting off a suitcase bomb in NYC or and other major American cities would be very possible. And maybe likely.
2) The geopolitical strength Iran would gain from possessing the bomb with missiles to carry it, would be enormous and absolutely wickedly malign.
3) If Iran gets the bomb, needless to say several Arab states will pursue the same. Does anyone seriously not realize how dangerous that would be to us all?

This is far, far more than about Israel. Even Europe knows that, which is why Europeans are panicking. That is, were it about Israel, Europe wouldn't be able to care less. But it's about them. So they're taking action.

Only a fool can deny the necessity to take out Iran's nuclear facilities. This is a mission for all concerned parties. Rightfully, it should be carried out by NATO with Arab support, for political cover.

Simple Observer said...

Fair Witness:


"I just don't see how we're going to get a handle on this threat to all of humanity without being willing to take these bastards out."

Agreed.

Bunkerville said...

I would Akme whatever name that if one bomb floats over Israel, or one American dies, the Iranians will see Allah pronto. It kept the peace for close to a century. The big one.

Debbie said...

I think the best thing an American president could do when it comes to Israel, is shut up and get out of the way. Let Israel do what they need to do to protect themselves. If they need help, be there for them.

Debbie
Right Truth
http://www.righttruth.typepad.com

Simple Observer said...

Vote for the most ignorant comment thus far that I have seen in my years of surfing the Web:

Ducky's Here, with this display of willful head-turning:

"Israel isn't going to do a thing.

They don't have the experience to take out a hardened target at that distance and they learned thier lesson when Hexbollah sent a shower of rockets after Likud got frisky in southern Lebanon."

Because we all know that Israel has no military power, strength, or experience to speak of, and they should cower like dogs at the shadow of the false god of Islam.

So sorry, DH, but Israel could take out whomever they wished, whenever they wished. The Islamists need to thank their pedophile prophet and false god that Israel hasn't shown them what death really looks like.

Z said...

Christopher, it sounds extreme but I sure do understand your sentiment. We're allowing a people who TEACH unspeakable violence and there are actually Americans who'd suggest we don't act until we're HIT.. MY GOSH.

I heard Medved this morning...he was talking about how much we've done to bring Afghanistan into the 10th century!

I also heard about a situation in islam where people kidnap women of a family who they think wronged them. One little girl was stolen from her family and beaten and abused for a year. It's apparently illegal but very much done. And a BRITISH PARLIAMENTARIAN was asked about it and he said it was commonplace and "there's a good side and bad side to it". THis is what we're dealing with.. people who think anything's GOOD about stealing 8 yr old girls and abusing them for retribution meant for their older brothers or father. MY GOD.
(oops.."MY GOD" has nothing to do with this, of course)

Z said...

AOW, our intel has stunk with ANYTHING to do with the Arab mind, of course. ANYTHING.

You said "1. There is no guarantee other than strategic pre-emptive strikes."

You win the Z AWARD FOR MOST SENSIBLE AND CONCISE ANSWER......

RIGHT WING: (MK)> I agree

SIMPLE OBSERVER: If we'd had better intel we could have just got Saddam and dragged HIM through the streets instead of his stupid statue; what we would have saved ourselves and the Iranians!
And you are SO RIGHT about Israeli capabilities...

STEVE: What is Europe doing that's so doggone effective to date?
I agree about Iran's capabilities..>Kenneth Timmerman's studied this for years and been there and talked to their people; they're WAAAY ahead of what we're hearing they are.

BUNKERVILLE..until someone DOES hit them somehow, we'll never have ANY peace. This is the Arab mentality "they're (the Americans, the Israelis, the West, etc...but mostly America) scared of us, we can get them now" Period. We need to be the big bullies the stupid left thought Bush was.

SCDottr...no kidding; great comment.

Debbie, we HAVE to stop bullying Israel like Obama is, and stop calling their leadership names.

FW...our administration doesn't give a DAMN about Israel, that's clear.

Z said...

by the way, STEVE...is that 'you'?? :-)

Simple Observer, you are SO welcome here. Thanks for participating.

Ticker said...

Calling names, Miller? Nice leftist argument for those with no facts to present.
Haggee and the rest you mention do indeed have an idea of what they can
do to bring about the return of Jesus but last I read it didn't include incinerating another nation from the face of the map.
Their ideology holds not theological credence regardless of what they think so you use of these individuals don't carry any weight on the discussion. Try again. And yes you might try reading the Holy Bible occasionally and you might want to buy you a good Vines Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words.

Now please inform me to the verse you are referring too as to name calling? I know, I just want to see if you do and if you actually know what you are reading or just repeating what you have been told the meaning is.

Ed Bonderenka said...

As far as I know, from reading the Bible, Jesus will come back when we've preached to every "nation" (ethnic group). Not killed them.
Or started Armageddon.
That said, should we preemptively attack Iran?
Should we have Japan in 1941?
I don't think so.
Pearl Harbor was struck while her ambassadors were negotiating.
But we should have not been as unprepared (as this Obama is disarming us).
But Israel should. She has been singled out for extermination by the Iranian regime. There is abundant evidence of that.
And we should support her.

Ticker said...

Z, I have heard a number of ministers preach from Revelation 22 which uses the phrase "“Behold, I am coming quickly" used in the 7th 12th and vs 20 but none have used the term in the manner Miller seems to wish to have others believe. People with little knowledge of the scripture should be careful of using it to make an argument. He attempted the same thing with the comment about "name calling". He is referring of course to a verse in Matthew which I am sure you know but I doubt that Miller does. I am waiting on him to show me and then give me the proper translation of the use of the terms rather than his loose translation of "name calling".

Bob said...

I am late to the party, of course, and there are so many thoughtful comments. My advice reflects the fact that Israel faces an existential threat. Iran is pushing for hegemony in the oil rich middle-eastern states. In that perspective the Gulf nations are threated, too, along with Europe.

The first thing the President of the United States needs to do is to make a definitive statement about fully supporting Israel, and will not allow a nuclear weapon in Iran, or an existential threat to one of our allies. I have heard him mealy-mouth this a couple of times, but I believe he can be stronger than that. He needs to stand up for America and our allies.

One of our problems is that our intelligence never seems to be very good since Vallerie Plame left the building. Our job, I believe, is to protect Israel first,because they are nearer to the source of the threat.

The key is that we give Israel the military and logistic support to defend their country, and that includes helping them plan a preemptive strike against Iran's nuclear facilities.

If it ever happens that Iran has nuclear weapons, and they are deploying those devices by way of their terrorist clients, it will be too late to stop their use against Israel, other middle-eastern countries, Europe, or the United States.

God help ua all if those madmen get their nuclear bombs. We may rue the day when we left Iraq and Afghanistan. Once we are gone, the Iranians can do what they want.

Z said...

Bob...SUPER post but Obama's never shown the slightest 'give a damn' about Israel, you know that? Or not enough that you'd notice! "God help ua all if those madmen get their nuclear bombs."

too late...they've got the rods now, too..homemade rods.
Don't ever read Timmerman...you won't sleep!
Thank GOD FOR FAITH!

Ticker, talking about FAITH...the Revelation quote's a good one but there are quotes throughout the Scriptures telling us that, right? You're so right about the fact that nobody's hoping anybody's incinerated and flattened for the love of Christ to appear again! To compare Jesus with the 12th Imam in ANY manner is a bit weird, but can be done; why stretch it that far, I can't imagine....

Ed, we should support her but we won't. God forbid Obama stays silent.. Also, Iran's threatened Israel and US quite pointedly.

Steve said...

Yes, Z, it's me, your Canadian Steve friend.

In response to your question about what Europe's done about Iran's nukes...well, as you suggest, nothing until very recently. But as we've seen, some European countries are now getting serious about sanctions, even considering a boycott of Iranian oil. Whether Europe can go as far as necessary, like support a NATO strike or at least look the other way if the US or Israel strike, is still in question.

Z said...

Steve, don't look now, but it appears Iran's boycotting the European countries' oil!

But, seriously, if it's only 12% of France's whole oil intake, I suppose that's not a problem.

How's Iran expect to keep financially viable if it stops providing important countries with oil$$$??

Steve said...

Z, I'm pretty sure France and Germany arranged in advance of announcing their Iranian oil boycott to get their oil from elsewhere, probably Saudi Arabia.

Iran's motive for boycotting the sale of oil to others would be, I assume as probably do you, some mixture of supercilious bluff, pride and defensive bravado.

Ticker said...

If I were POTUS I would stand tall and repeat the words said by JFK and MEAN THEM;

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

January 20, 1961

Unfortunately the current administration and the current crop of leftist , progressive, Democrats do not remember these words nor do they l believe they should be the foreign policy and national defense policy of this country. I do and this is exactly what I would let AJ in Iran know and understand as well as N. Korea, Russia and China. I would insure that Israel knew and understood that I would stand by my word. You would see a heap of back peddling going on in this world if we had a leader who could and would say these words with conviction.

Z said...

Steve, I never thought of that, but that makes a lot of sense...they can't go without even 12% of what they have, I'm sure.

Ticker, I heard a quote from JFK, on video in a speech, saying that this country was created by GOD; it was kind of surprising...have you heard it?

Steve said...

It's painfully obvious, and bugs Democrats no end to hear it, that JFK would be a Republican today.

Average American said...

The wimp in the White House is THE reason that Iran is acting the way it has been for years. When America IS strong AND ACTS strong, we ARE strong. When we aren't, we aren't feared. Good going WIMP!

Will we strike first, I very seriously doubt it, at least not this year. As long as the muslim lover lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, you can pretty much count us out, except for the constant drone of the apologies from the wimp and a little yakking about useless sanctions.

Will Israel strike first? Anyone who doesn't think so is sadly mistaken. They have absolutely nothing to lose by going first and everything to lose by dragging their feet. As long as they are extremely careful to avoid corlateral damages, the rest of the ME may even let them get away with it. No one else aside from Syria much likes the Iranians anyway. Besides, NObama will have no choice but to come to their side if needed. Our Congress won't let him out of it.

Christopher - Conservative Perspective said...

Z,,,

Is it really extreme considering what they TELL US they will do?

Paraphrasing here but Jesus TELLS us exactly what to do with evil,,,FIGHT IT TODAY,,,He just does not spell out what weapons to use but am very sure, given Arch Angel Michaels many examples, my idea is not only warranted but very effective in this matter.

Z said...

Christopher, I'm the one constantly saying we SHOULD consider what Iran says they'll do!

Ticker said...

Z, Inaugural address:
Vice President Johnson, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Chief Justice, President Eisenhower, Vice President Nixon, President Truman, reverend clergy, fellow citizens, we observe today not a victory of party, but a celebration of freedom—symbolizing an end, as well as a beginning—signifying renewal, as well as change. For I have sworn before you and Almighty God the same solemn oath our forebears prescribed nearly a century and three quarters ago. 1
The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe—the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God.

He ended the address with this: '
And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. 25
My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man. 26
Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own.

Obama likes to use the Citizen's of the World thing and claims it comes from JFK but JFK said it in a much different light as is shown by above.

Ticker said...

The supreme reality of our time is our indivisibility as children of God and the common vulnerability of this planet.
Speech to a joint session of the Dail and the Seanad, Dublin, Ireland (28 June 1963)

With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own. (JFK inaugural address)


People talk about needing a new Regan but we need a new JFK for he held all those truths and ideals that Reagan held close to his heart and acted on them in the very short time he was allotted. Had he lived we would have seen a very different America for Viet Nam would have been ended in quick time. Johnson's War On Poverty would have never been declared as put forth by Johnson. Poverty could well have been nearly eliminated via Kennedy's ideas on welfare. So many of the things we see today that are ascribed to Kennedy are not from him but from the "progressives" who love to use half quotes from his speeches to further the socialist progressive agenda.
If someone today would stand and say and MEAN the things JFK did he would be elected by a landslide.

Z said...

Ticker, thanks..that's it "...not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God."

I believe he'd win tomorrow if he were running now. And he'd definitely be a Republican, whether the left likes that or not.

Odd, don't you think? Today our universities are teaching "Ask what your country can do FOR YOU" and they're sending that below our border, too.