I'm curious as to what you think. Make sure you read all of them; they're short and interesting and I'd like to know your opinion.
Thanks!
Z
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107 comments:
My answer is- NO- they are not wrong--
C-CS
I don't care where the door hits you on the way out.
But imagine if instead of renouncing it, how much they could get on the market if they could sell it (not that they should be able to, which would be abominable).
Then you'd get a clearer impression of what they're giving up.
The tax code is outrageously convoluted!
One of the people in the linked article said: "... I used to do my own taxes, but I started going to a professional..."
Same here.
Until recently, I had always completed my own tax returns. And I'm the daughter of an IRS auditor! But I got to the point that I could keep up with all the changes and convolutions in the tax code. Some of these changes can be explained by the bureaucracy on steroids.
I can't imagine that I would ever give up my American citizenship, however -- particularly at my age (62). Were I younger and looking out for my children, maybe I would. I dunno.
Without a doubt...expat or citizen the IRS is an onerous, parasite of huge proportions. Filled with nasty Lois Lerhner types.
More fearsome than the FBI or CIA. Hated universally...and feared.
Imp,
My mother constantly warned me about "the power of the IRS."
For example, if during the usual-look-back years of a "regular" audit, the IRS can go back FOREVER if the IRS finds anything even hinting attempting to defraud the IRS. Furthermore, with the IRS, the taxpayer is presumed guilty until the taxpayer proves his own innocence.
I keep records like you wouldn't believe! Because I own and operate my own single proprietorship, the paperwork tsunami in my office is out of control. The entire damn office is a cluttered mess: bank statements, canceled check, receipts, etc. Sheesh.
@AOW:
"the taxpayer is presumed guilty until the taxpayer proves his own innocence."
No kidding...been there my self with the Nazi busterds. Bargained a 40K bill down to 8K and walked away.
Imp,
You made a good deal.
As long as intent to defraud Internal Revenue, the IRS will usually bargain, and those audited need to know that. The IRS will also let the taxpayer use a payment plan. Most taxpayers affected in either of those ways are usually grateful. Some even grovel! I know one man who didn't grovel, and he ended up in prison for 18 months.
I'm not sure what will make people irate enough to curb the power of the IRS.
Yes they are wrong , it's our country as well as theirs , let them get the hell out, I'm here to stay, I like many others here, gave 4 years of my life serving my country, I'll be here fighting again. But this time at home .
I still wouldn't sell my birthright for a mess of pottage.
I had a very good black friend who was an accountant in Detroit.
Low income.
Got into IRS auditing and made good money first time in his life.
Quit after two years.
Could not stay in good conscience.
Ed,
Quit after two years.
Could not stay in good conscience.
Every chance she got, Mom transferred to another agency.
But Mom getting called back to work for the IRS. She refused the position of auditor and opted for another position, one that supervised auditors. She was always having to get after these auditors for the way they were doing the audits. As soon as Mom was eligible to do so, she retired. That meant a lower pension, but she said, "It's worth it."
Even back then, Mom complained about the complexities of the tax code.
If one calls the IRS, often one gets the disclaimer about how the information received might not be accurate (i.e., there may be additional tax liability).
Parts of the tax code contradict each other, too.
No, they are not wrong.
I own property in other countries, and as soon as I amass enough money, I'm outta here.
It is damn near impossible for an American overseas to open a bank account, as the article states, and the tax paperwork is stultifying.
See, the US is one of the few governments that levy taxes on its citizens who work overseas.
A German working in Britain or the US pays taxes in that country and Germany leaves him alone.
Not Uncle Sam. And the IRS is so rapacious, that foreign banks don't want to deal with the hassle and extra red tape the US levies on them to track Americans' financial moves, so the banks simply declare that if you are a US citizen they won't do business with them.
It's flipped. Other nations are advancing, we are becoming a creaking, crapulent third world dictatorship run by an unelected oligarchy jealous of its perquisites and increasingly eager to deny ordinary citizens their God-given liberties.
They have more freedom in Hong Kong or Uruguay.
@AOW:
"Imp,
You made a good deal..."
Wellyea...but the 40K was penalties and 50% add ons and all other kinds of horrendous surcharges. The real bill was 12K...but I had a kid as my agent...and we chatted pretty casually. About everything but my lien. So...I was as relaxed as I could be..and said how about..."XX"...like I would to a car salesman...he countered...I accepted and I wrote a check. Boom...out da door.
@Ed D:
"gave 4 years of my life serving my country..."
Thanks for the service Ed.
Newly released public records show that the Department of the Interior knew in advance that two groups of aging veterans would be visiting the World War II Memorial on October 1, 2013, but they decided to barricade the premises anyway.
If this doesn't suggest that our unconstitutional putative president doesn't respect our WW2 vets and servicemen, then I don't know what to say. If alive today, my father and other family members who served in WW2 would not appreciate the disrespect this putative president has shown towards our courageous servicemen who fought to protect the Constitution and the integrity of this nation that is on the brink of disaster today. What we have is a administration full of blatant criminals who engaged in a act of aggression towards these hero's of the Pacific and European theater. The framers of the Constitution, namely Article 2 Section 1, wanted a natural born citizen as a future president for the sole purpose of having allegiance to the United States of America and it's armed forces. What liberals have put in office the last 6 years is a man who's birth was governed by the British Act of 1948 due to his father being a British subject with allegiance to the British Crown. That concept has given us a putative president born with dual allegiances and total disrespect for this nations principles and the veterans of the greatest generation who sacrificed to save this country from tyranny. Again, how disgusting and disrespectful.
I also proudly served my country, and I'm proud to be a Rightwingnut Bible-thumping conservative American and I'm not going anywhere.
I'm reminded of the story, "The Man Without a Country".
I'm amazed at Silverfiddle.
I was under the misunderstanding that he was a patriot.
Thanks to all of you who have served, I'm also proud to say that myself. Thanks for that, and thanks for saying that you are not going anywhere else, as I am not either. This is our country we fought for it, served it and we will be damned to stand by and allow a little Socialist American hater bring it down. Not while we stand by and allow it.
Some ask, why do republicans and tea party disklike president obama?
I guess more accurately the question why does President Obama do these things that are harmful towards America?
To answer the the question race was definitely not a factor, not in the least. To me it can be summed up in one word. “Policies”. His “change” is not the change we Conservatives are looking for. And for him to say that he inherited this mess from our previous presidential administration is a lying cop out! Just like the health care bill that was shoved down our throats, that Pelosi said "we needed to vote on it to find out what was in it".
Silverfiddle said...
No, they are not wrong.
I own property in other countries, and as soon as I amass enough money, I'm outta here.
I can’t agree with that, but as they say, don’t let the door hit you in the ASS as you leave. Just go and go fast
@ Ed: "I'm amazed at Silverfiddle.
I was under the misunderstanding that he was a patriot."
I'm amazed to hear that from you, Ed. You don't think we have a God-given right to live where we want? There are tens of thousands of Americans living overseas. That doesn't make them less patriotic (whatever that means).
To the Joe Biden toadstool who made the comment about the door hitting me in the ass: Meh...
QUESTIONS:
1)Does any other major industrial power attempt to live as far above/beyond its means as the US?
2)Why do, a reported, 47% pay no Income Tax?
3)Will the Electorate continue to ignore the insane fiscal direction that this Nation is headed?
4)Will the Electorate ever support an equitable system of taxation such as a "Flat Tax" imposed on [all] income?
I have no interest, whatsoever, in those featured in today's post who, apparently, don't reside here. I would, however, like to see more domestic concern about the 'wrong headed' path that we are heading on.
By the way, what do you think about AssHats who agree with everything that this administration does,like
The Government Is Spying On Us Through Our Computers,
ObamaCare"
IRS Targeting Whoever?
Obama’s Veterans Administration Policies?
Russia!
That's pretty much everything else including Obama's "Red Lines" . .... Yet they (liberals) still think the mindless, ignorant crowd is with them for what they believe and that they agree with
Z - I cannot say that these people are giving up their American citizenship for the wrong reasons. That is their right to do so.
I just know that I could never live anywhere else except here or give up my citizenship for any reason. I love being an American.
Don't bull shit us SF , you have been a progressive ass kisser from way back.
To whomever: Silverfiddle served his country for a full career in the United States Air Force; there should be no question of his patriotism.
Thanks.
A citizen’s decision to renounce their citizenship must be one of the most difficult decisions a citizen can make. I don’t envy anyone who is going through that process. But I wonder if there is not a “larger picture” here. American unemployment is extremely high (twice that touted by the current administration), and yet well-qualified foreign citizens do find work in the USA. Is anyone wondering why or how this is even possible? Is it our grossly inferior educational system, per chance—or citizens who, although reasonably educated, act as if they are complete morons most of the time or lack the work ethic desired by most “career” employment opportunities?
The question was, are they wrong to renounce? No, I don’t think so. People should live where they are happiest. I do find it interesting that all four people decided to renounce based on tax rates and obligations. How many Americans ran away to live in Canada to avoid the military draft 30 years ago (since pardoned by Jimmah Cattah)? So this is nothing new.
Mustang: Thank you!
Although an Air Force career, even one serving in war zones, pales in comparison to one in the Marine Corps.
Anonymous said...
Don't bull shit us SF , you have been a progressive ass kisser from way back.
Got proof?
@Mustang:
Glad to see you around the campus again.
Wouldn't you like to have a little "chat" and a beer with that "anon" clown?
A note to the spineless turd who keeps making anonymous comments attacking Silverfiddle: grow a pair and let us know who you are. As for your statement that John Kerry served his country, too ... get an education.
John Kerry served OFF THE COAST of Vietnam for six months aboard the USS Gridley, serving as Damage Control Officer.
John Kerry served IN Vietnam from November 1968 to March 1969 as an officer commanding a five man crew aboard a river patrol boat. Usually an E-7 Chief Petty Officer commands a patrol boat.
In only FOUR months, John Kerry managed to accumulate nearly as many medals as Audie Murphy: Silver Star, Bronze Star, and THREE Purple Heart Medals. Since he only served four months in Vietnam, he no doubt should have gotten another Purple Heart, right? In any case, PH #1 required a Band-Aid at sick call. PH #2 came as a result of shooting himself with an M79 Grenade launcher. You figure this out for yourself, genius. PH#3 came from the shrapnel of a hand grenade that he HIMSELF tossed into RICE BIN. Why Kerry declared war on a rice bin remains a mystery.
The one thing we can credit John Kerry for is creating a comedic environment aboard his patrol boat. None of the sailors serving with Kerry ever laughed so hard, as they did watching this clown embarrass him and the commissioned officer corps.
Then John Kerry returned to the United States and managed to toss his “medals” onto the steps of the US Capital building while denouncing the war in Vietnam and making up stories about how US forces routinely committed war crimes against the Vietnamese people.
So Mr. or Mrs. Anonymous ... if you think this kind of behavior is a good example of serving one’s country, then YOU should move to Geneva, too.
Idiot.
Silverfiddle: Sorry. Your comment gave the distinct impression that you intended to drop your citizenship when you had enough money to move overseas.
My comment reflected my surprise that you would do that.
I knew a few retired GIs overseas.
And some weren't citizens.
According to my Marine and Army friends, I wasn't in the military.
Like you, I was USAF.
BTW, I'd renounce that in a heartbeat, now, given where it's gone. Thinking of Lackland and the Academy.
The post was about renouncing your citizenship. That is completely different than deciding to live abroad.
So Silverfiddle, are you saying you just want to go live somewhere else or are you saying you would renounce your citizenship?
If I was a more daring person, I would love spending a year or so in Italy. But I would definitely miss the conveniences of home.
The link in the post isn't working any longer, so I can't comment on who is giving up their citizenship and why. I'm assuming it's because of the outrageous taxes they still have to pay.
Btw AOW, I've been using Turbo tax for years. The premium versions include easy walkthroughs for Schedules C and E. First year I used it we saved $1,500 because it alerted me that my husband could contribute to a SEP for his PT self employment.
I use it for my consulting business and our rental properties. Easy as pie, unlike the stupid tax code.
Ed: I figured it was a misunderstanding. Thanks for the clarification.
Rita: I do not plan on renouncing my citizenship, but I can understand why the people in the article did, and as stated, most did it with tears in their eyes.
Hopefully, it won't come to that for me. It is easier in some other countries to go off the grid without violating their laws.
Our government is off the chain, and I say that with regret. Don't like it now? You ain't seen nuthin' yet. GPS electronics in all vehicles for the purposes of taxing you by the mile, making the destruction or disabling of such devices a federal felony, punishable by large fines and imprisonment. Why? Because they can.
I'll restate what I said earlier:
It's flipped. Other nations are advancing, we are becoming a creaking, crapulent third world dictatorship run by an unelected oligarchy jealous of its perquisites and increasingly eager to deny ordinary citizens their God-given liberties.
They have more freedom in Hong Kong or Uruguay.
@Rita --- If I was a more daring person, I would love spending a year or so in Italy. But I would definitely miss the conveniences of home.
------
You'd be surprised, Rita. They have paved roads, electricity, shopping plazas, hospitals ... all kinds of first world things.
Come to think of it, so do New Zealand, Switzerland and Canada.
China might be a little adventurous for those of a certain age.
@Ducky:
My daughters pictures from Beijing and Sichuan province showed a pretty forward looking and quite western looking cities.
Her Hotel rooms in both cities were first class too. Hon Kong was her favorite and she said Singapore was ultra modern and spotless.
Great comments (most)...thanks so much.
Rita, I published this because I thought it was fascinating that those in my article are leaving for tax purposes...and invasive behavior by our tax people. And stifling laws for them even living OUTSIDE America. It's amazing.
Ed, that story of your friend leaving the IRS for his conscience is horrid; imagine what he saw?
Imp; congrats on the bargaining! It is true that you can try and sometimes do win!
Mr. Z and I suffered greatly at the hands of the IRS:
Funny, I just shared most of the details in as anonymous a way as I could but decided I'd better not print it here. I don't trust ANYTHING on line anymore.
There can't be anybody who loves this country more than most of us do (including ME) but I'd move in a heartbeat. It's too hard to see what's happening. My stepson arrived last night from Munich...what he told me about what's happening in Germany is a travesty and I WISH our media was telling us but THEIR media's the same as ours now and aren't reporting the immigrant problem. You just can't believe what's going on there. And my stepson was left leaning until recently; he's finally awakened....
Let me give you one point he mentioned last night; there's serious discussion in the gov't of confiscating peoples' apartment buildings they own so asylum seekers have somewhere to live. TAKE the buildings; it should be the owners' pleasure to GIVE the buildings up for these people.
The police are turning very obvious blind eyes to the horrible beatings Germans are getting by immigrants sucking their economy dry and their president, in a Christmas Day address, blamed the Germans for attacking immigrants! My stepson said Germans were dumbfounded at hearing that.
I first went to Germany 25 years ago; our friends left their bikes by their back doors. My stepson says people in villages could leave their doors unlocked. Now there's so much theft, and everything's filthy, that nobody feels safe.
Berlin and Hamburg have fallen apart; those handsome, CLEAN, economic wonders are BROKE, folks. BROKE. All due to the immigrants and how much the leftwing Germans have given them over the years. it's much worse than we've ever heard here..
Rita, I'm so sorry for Ducky's comment to you; most of us know you've been to Italy and don't need the sarcasm.
As one who's spent a lot of time living in Europe, I know there are conveniences we miss from here when we're there. You're absolutely right...though I came to mellow and love certain of those inconveniences, and I think you would to if you were there long enough. They become kind of a lovely way of life you navigate through and enjoy, really.
Imp's right, too....one needn't miss a thing by living in China or Singapore, etc. Even Kuala Lumpur has fantastic areas to live...and the hotels are amazing.
On “The O’Reilly Factor” on Tuesday night, Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer criticized President Barack Obama for his foreign policy and said that Obama was Arrogant, Semi-Delusional,́ and ́Radically Unawaré
of His ́Failed Foreign Policies.When the President’s Secretary of State has as her chief advisor the daughter of Muslim Brotherhood founders and former editor of the MB newspaper, how can any serious person believe that President has America’s interest at heart?
To say that Barack Hussein Obama is *extremely weak* is an understatement.
Somehow we must SURVIVE Obama and his idiot dipstick the libturd Secretary of State, Kerry. I suspect, though, there will be enough push back from the EU to make Putin rethink any further efforts. He may try to annex Crimea, but that would put Russia on the brink of war and he doesn’t want that. With every passing day, the outcome of the November midterm elections becomes CRITICAL to the future of the nation.
SF...well, what an interesting thread you created with your comments!
Mustang, thanks for standing up with SF. You are SO RIGHT about him.
Maybe some of us didn't have the time to read the details of each story in my post; it's clear that our gov't is stifling us even abroad.
BY THE WAY; HAVE YOU HEARD THE LATEST BUSINESS-BREAKER? OBAMA WANTS TO HAVE EVERYBODY GET OVERTIME? ONE OF THE BENEFITS ONE GETS BY GOING EXEMPT IS A LARGER SALARY AND BENEFITS. WELL, FOLKS, OBAMA FEELS THEY'RE ALSO DESERVING OF OVERTIME AND SO MORE AND MORE JOBS WILL SOON BE LOST. IS THIS HIS GOAL? IT SURE FEELS LIKE IT TO ME.
let's see.....kill business through environmental regulations, force employers who pay exempt employees a bit more, plus better benefits than non exempt and now make them pay overtime as well!?, make businesses pay more hourly wages...force them to pay health care...
When will it stop? Just what DOES he have against business?
Did you all hear Beckel last night on TV? He's taking to task the founder of Greenpeace because the guy realizes the climate weenies are full of BS, so Beckel accuses him of not taking that stance based on his years of experience but of having gone to working with "polluting FOR PROFIT businesses" as if FOR PROFIT is FOR EVIL? It astonished even me. One of the most disturbing, ugly attacks I've heard in a long time...
My GOD...FOR PROFIT? In AMERICA? Someone wants to make a LIVING in America??! Are we really at that point now that THAT is wrong?
The Way I See It: lots of truth in what you say.
And ya...have you seen the list of muslims working in the WH now? Well, you know, if you look at it statistically, the amount DOES represent the percentage of Muslims in our country. Oh, wait..No it doesn't! Not by a LOOOONG shot. Oops :-)
Z,
"Did you all hear Beckel last night on TV?"
I did and I also wonder if he has a tough time believing himself! Why do I think that his frequent bombastic diatribes are a sign of a very self-conflicted individual, prostituting himself, in support of dubious causes such as Anthropogenic Climate change?
Well, it's good to see Z has her computer back... :)
Z: it was nice to see Hannity call Beckel on his boorish approach.
Ad Hominem attacks because he had no basis otherwise.
Hi, Ed! Got my new Dell all set up Friday night....am so glad to be back; thanks for the welcome.
JB...I often think the same thing because Beckel so often DOES say the right thing. He's hard on islamists, he's hard on Anti-Christian stuff....
Any man his age who can't wait to throw in how many drugs he used and how drunk he could get isn't my cup of tea by a longshot (proud you're over it, but proud you DID it?!!), but he sometimes does show some character..
But last night was horrific.
PROFIT is a SIN now?
How the HELL did Obama manage this? And in such a short time?
#($*&($*&#$(*&$#(
Just Sayin....the shoe you put on SF does NOT FIT. He's an amazing patriot and you read his comment wrong.
And, frankly, I'd LOVE to be living in Paris or Munich again right now. Does that mean I don't love this country? REALLY?
Christian Soldier, everybody ought to go to your blog right now and see your very short video...it's absolutely the most beautiful few seconds I think I've seen in a long time.
Thank you for that......I still have tears in my eyes. :-)
I don't have an issue with people deciding to leave the US and live elsewhere. I don't see that as a sign of a lack of patriotism. To be frank, I'm rather ashamed at the lack of intellectual curiosity and basic understanding of civics, that is displayed by our fast-food, disposable society....that knows more about Dancing with the Stars than the proper function of Congress.
I have the sprouts of a plan to relocate elsewhere if things continue to get worse [my 'Zombie Apocolypse plan']....but I'll not renounce my citizenship.
Born here, grew up here, served my country because I love her, and I don't ever want to leave her, I want to better her and die here .
CI, what did you think of the tax situations described by those who are painfully considering giving up citizenship in my post's article?
"It's my country..."..I feel the same way, tho I didn't serve in the military...
I feel like we can all better our country in small ways, but the big gun lefties have poisoned our kids and the media so there's little chance of our making any real positive returns to our freedoms, altho the Obama ratings going down give me hope. And the Fla election of Congressman Jolly is bigger than some are crediting.
And I'd love to live in Europe again. Would only give up my citizenship, tearfully and painfully, if the financial situation got untenable for me.
And, frankly, I'm hearing Europe's so overrun and abused by the immigrants now that I don't know where I'd go. Belize or some other tropical place would bore the @#($*&@(#*$& out of me, frankly. But that's about the only place to go and that's not as safe as some think, either, according to Guatemalan and Belizian friends of mine. I wouldn't buy in Central America or S America EVER.
I WISH Americans were hearing the truth about Europe... they'd MAYBE wake up quicker.
Dave Miller the naive liberal said.
While the ACA is not perfect, in fact far from it, at least the Dems made a serious attempt and even passed a bill that cemented a few things for many people here in the US...
1. No company can refuse you coverage because of a preexisting condition.
2. Kids can stay on their parents policy until 26 if they remain in school. Since parents are required to foot the bill and be part of the education process, this makes sense.
3. We have a stated goal of covering everyone, because it is better for everyone.
Now, we can argue and fight all day long on the hows, but let's be honest, there was no GOP plan that offered any real attempts to achieve these goals.
Are any of these bad goals?
I've met and talked with quite a few folks from Canada and Europe and they understand that they pay lots of taxes so they can have adequate health care, retirement, vacations, etc. Is that a bad thing?
YES, IT’S A BAD THING!
I believe anybody. progressive, - liberal, libertarian, or who favors Obama ... are either too lazy to find out the truth, is mentally ill, or they are so in love with their arrogant messiah that they are too blind to see the truth.
ObamaCare is also filled with cross falsehoods and subsidies, just another way of redistributing the wealth without using the tax code, because of the Supreme Courts mistake.
In order for individuals with preexisting conditions to get coverage at less than their actuarially rated risk, healthy people will have tot pay more than their fair share, and in most cases, a lot more.
If you were in college, you could usually stay on your parents’ insurance until you turned 22, At 26, you should be out on your own, working and paying for yourself. Unless you are a lazy bum. The rest of the hard working people should not be paying for you ..
Millions Will Lose Their Current Insurance. Period. End of Story: President Obama lied when he said otherwise.
Even if you kept your own insurance, eventually most remaining plans are going to change their coverage--whether it’s employer plans or individual plans!
The Government is going to pick your treatment. What is the right medical treatment for me, should be my decision or MY doctors. They're going to have to give up paying for things that don't make them healthier...If there's a blue pill and a red pill, and the blue pill is half the price of the red pill and works just as well, why not pay half for the thing that's going to make you well." Does that sound like a government that will stay out of your health care decisions? Lots of luck with that!
Higher taxes are going to hurt businesses. and then just watch the unemployment rate rise.
Yes, Obamacare Is Bad for America! You better believe it.
Also from what I've heard older people are put on long waiting lists if you are elderly and need attention but most people like me are young and do not need the service yet.
Most people sadly will abuse the healthcare service for sniffles and sneezes making people with real problems get pushed to the back as experienced doctors will be fired and new ones that are fresh out of medical school replace them
And who cares about the folks from Canada and Europe! They never care about us and they NEVER do anything right anyway!
The Way I see it...
Thanks for that.
Actually, it's the Republicans pushing for Obama to improve the Preexisting Conditions part more in favor of the patient; check it out. I linked it yesterday in the post below, I think. Got no response from the lefties.
I SO WISH I could have taped my insurance agent's conversation with me Monday...he's devastated and has good reason to be. Subsidies sound good, but many of the better hospitals in the towns where we live aren't going to take Obama Care...until the lawsuits from the WH start, I guess.
It all sounds good and all the Republicans wanted to change was to GO SLOWLY....don't bother those who CAN afford their own insurance; let them REALLY keep it. Don't threaten doctors with such tiny amounts of reimbursement they can't stay in business, which WILL happen.
The story's very ugly but people will only start REALLY feeling the pressure in two years because Obama moved those mandates to after the upcoming elections. he's very good at politics and that's SO SAD for Americans!
Actually, I wish they HAD met their 7 million goal because more people would understand NOW that what they've been told isn't going to happen.
Zeke Rahm is such a two faced liar and contradicts himself on television constantly, as he smugly acts condescending for even going on FOX, for example. ugh.
OK, it would seem that the best option would be the restoration of the United States to the freer more entrepreneurial society which made us the envoy of the World. Of course there's an obvious problem with that; we allowed too much interference by government with a well intentioned but wisdom deficient expectation of the "greater good". As it turns out the results are neither "greater" or "good". We MUST reverse this. The potential remains here and there really isn't anywhere else to run to!
"I believe anybody. progressive, - liberal, libertarian, or who favors Obama ...."
Certainly an interesting grouping. I have yet to meet a fellow Libertarian who supports the ACA though.
Z - Others before me here today have illustrated the fiscal insanity imposed upon us by our government, when we are citizens, but live/work abroad. It's a travesty for this to occur in what we deem a 'free nation'. But we haven't been remotely free for around a century now.
Wrong Constitutional Insurgent my friend, Libertarians (as they said) chose the lesser of two evils better than the worse of the two and voted for Obama over Romney!
It must be depressing to be a libertarian, they don’t seem to know which way is Up!
No. It's actually not depressing at all. We have front row seats to the circus between two parties who strive to show disparity, but use the same tactics and the same obfuscation toward the American people.
I won't speak for all Libertarians [unlike many seem won't to do] but this one didn't vote for Obama.
CI, I asked you particularly because you said you have the germ of a plan to move outside the country.
JonBerg; so you think we CAN reverse what we've been put in ??
I hope so. But how does one reverse the thinking of students who actually do feel entitled to ANYTHING? How do we get a media back which actually reports ALL the news, not dropping any story that doesn't correlate with their politics? These things are the two biggest problems.
If people had known how many freedoms we'd lose with this president (business restrictions, loss of very good healthcare plans, freedom to think as we do and not be insulted for it, freedom to expect our military to remain strong, freedom to know our own IRS wouldn't do what it's done (doing?), etc etc..., he'd not have been elected if people heard all of this UNLESS there are more than I think who really DO feel our country owes them a living...and turn a blind eye because of it?
Z - "I asked you particularly because you said you have the germ of a plan to move outside the country."
Yep, and our system of regulation, licensing and taxation are a large part of that. Anywhere one goes, there will always be hoops to jump through and palms to grease....there is no utopia per se...but there are places less pervasive in the government interference that we see in every part of our lives here.
Ci, if you don't mind my saying so, that's a little like being bisexual and insulting men and women for not joining your throng.
You have no moral high ground over any Republican or Democrat because you don't choose a side and defend that side. "Strive to show disparity?"
Z - When the GOP actually gains power and limits the size and scope of government, instead of merely preaching it; when they advocate for civil liberties instead of lip service...then I'll be proven wrong. I most certainly choose a side. There's more than two.
If being a Libertarian is like being bisexual, then being a Republican is like being a transvestite.
I definitely agree with Z. I think that . And by the way, that crackpot blogger Rational Nation USA claims to be a Libertarian, but then again crackpots are usually harmless. I myself would call him more of a Obamamaniac than a Libertarian.
CI, not at all.
WE haven't changed...the GOP elitists and statists have. That's not me, trust me.
Thanks, Dr. Who. I don't know libertarians who voted for Obama, but maybe I just look at libertarians as too smug and unorganized to really pay much attention.
Z - "WE haven't changed...the GOP elitists and statists have. That's not me, trust me."
There's truth to that, for many citizens at least. The problem is that the elite and Statists ignore you....and you keep voting for them anyway. The paradigm following that model is unlikely to change.
Ci...yes, we will never vote for Democrats; that's true.
And, I heard too much about Germany last night to ever want a third party to split our vote even more.
People forget that Germany has many parties and that good conservatives are not winning because their suppose-ed consciences won't let them unite against the more united lefty parties...
I can remember so many conservatives after the first Obama win coming here and they were so proud they'd either voted for Obama or didn't vote "so we can SHOW THEM!" Show who? US? our COUNTRY?
At least we had a chance of SOME type equilibrium with Romney (not my fave, either, of course); we knew he loved this country, we knew he'd support the constitution, we knew he WAS right about that "47%" and we let ourselves be cowed by the leftwing media and my GOODNESS, how PROUD the rightwingers who DIDN'T vote should be , huh? (sarcasm).
Yes, they SURE SHOWED US~! How dumb
If a Conservative voted for Obama, then they weren't all that Conservative were they?
The problem with a party mobilizing it's electorate to vote....lies within the party itself. Not the media, or any other myriad of excuses. The party.
There’s a guy (Ken from Livonia) who calls Bill Bennett and local Ann Arbor shows frequently.
He refused to vote for Romney on religious grounds.
Now he calls in and complains about the effect Obamacare has had on his life.
He’s lost his insurance.
I love to call in after him and point out the disconnect that he refuses to see.
The problem with a party mobilizing it's electorate to vote....lies within the party itself. Not the media, or any other myriad of excuses. The party.
Not sure I understand this. What problem are we talking about? Mobilization of the electorate isn’t confined to party when the news media becomes an arm of ONE political party.
We have always had print media that aligned itself with either one political party or the other, but we also had balance. Now if you consider the impact of news and social media in the past two elections, then you can no longer argue that it is “only” the party.
Ed,
I know quite a few people who are blissfully unaware of the disconnect you mentioned. Can people think anymore?
Imp,
It is usually the case that the interest and other add-ons far exceed the original tax liability. Not that the situation should be like that! It shouldn't!
CI, that's utter baloney.
There were conservatives who voted for Obama to 'show us'...believe me.
As for the party...No, not with the majority of the media (and late night TV and movies) so rabidly disdaining anything conservative. Couldn't disagree with you more on that. The party's not done a great job, but they barely stand a chance.
Ed and AOW: they'd BETTER have awakened by 2014 and 2016.
Ed, I hope you have the chance someday to address him with your point. It was no time to get precious about Mormonism. I don't agree with its tenets, either, but we weren't voting for a Pastor in Chief, as so many tried to say.
I feel a little awkward saying that but can't really go into detail here. Or wouldn't, anyway.
Sam, thanks; I just read your comment and you said something I'd left out; there is NO BALANCE anymore. At least on FOX, which certainly leans right, we get leftists AND conservatives but then it creates such a cacophony of noise we can't really hear ANYTHING, right?
And, really, why do they bother with the leftists on FOX? To be BALANCED? REALLY? Like Howard Kurtz having ruined my favorite show, the media show which at least ATTEMPTED to show leftwing media bias? Heck, even Judith Miller, very leftwing, agreed with the Right on that show much of the time. But Kurtz? He hears any slightest leftwing bias and right away shows some obscure rightwing bias, as if there's any comparison!
Rita,
Maybe I should take a look at that edition of Turbo Tax. The earlier editions that I had couldn't handle my tax returns -- with their many "special" situations.
Thanks for the tip!
Z - Really? You'd still, call someone who voted for Obama...a Conservative? Who are these people exactly?
Sam - In the recent Virginia Gubernatorial election, the turnout from the GOP was woefully poor, thus assuring a win for McAuliffe.
I put no stock into the media excuse, as it's predicated on opinion. There is news media for nearly every strain of ideology. Whining that every outlet aside from Fox is liberal, subjective and hasn't yielded an increase in the voting base.
The GOP needs more voters. One tactic to gain more voters, is to actually elect and govern as Conservatives.
What you say may indeed be true for state and local elections, but you cannot suggest that the left-media adoration of one candidate over the other didn’t have a profound impact on the last two elections. If you use the example of the Benghazi affair only, we find that Romney made a statement condemning the attack ... and thus ensued an absolute envelopment of the Romney campaign by the left media. And when they were finished, Romney came away looking like the utter fool. In point of fact, Romney was 100% correct about everything he said. You may believe the media has no impact; I’m just not buying it.
CI: If Libertarians had voted for Cuccinelli, he'd be governor.
He wasn't conservative enough?!?
Ed - Nope. If the GOP base had turned out, Cuccinelli would be Governor. Libertarians in Virginia drew ore votes away from McAulliffe than they did Cuccinelli.
There's not only a difference between Republican and Conservative, but Cooch is a Statist.
Sam - Blaming the media is an abdication by the party for the problems it has in gaining more voters. Principally, governing according to Conservative principles.
Merely not being Obama is a tactic that might win some races, but it's not expanding the ranks of the party to a measurable degree. Perhaps when the GOP limits the size and scope of government, at all levels, the party will attract the voters who hold that as a defining principle.
CI:
I said: If Libertarians had voted for Cuccinelli, he'd be governor.
Not, had they not voted Libertarian.
Cuccinelli would have been better than McAulliffe .
You even seemed to imply that in your reply to Sam, but not strongly, I'll admit.
Well CI ... I do agree with you that no one has done a worse job communicating (PR) with constituencies than the GOP, but again ... when every major news outlet save one completely ignores the conservative message, or shows the GOP position in a negative light 24/7/365, or does nothing but use the “news” platform for attacking conservative political advertisements, the conservative candidates, state parties, the national party can talk until they are blue in the face and it won’t matter. The media controls public attitudes in this country. If we fail to acknowledge that, then we go into the knife fight with a spoon.
Constitutional Insurgent gets my vote for comment of the thread:
"If being a Libertarian is like being bisexual, then being a Republican is like being a transvestite."
Rock on, dude! That is a classic. I'm filing that one away for further use.
The average republican politician is a statist in a conservative costume. Like CI, I'll believe all their small government and fiscal conservative blather when they actually act on it.
Funny enough, I just got a call from, and politely hung up on, some organization calling itself the Republican National Committee.
CI, so I'm supposed to remember every conservative commenter who came here and said they voted for Obama "to show America?!"
Silverfiddle..baloney. As I told CI, the GOP statists don't stand for me, and the reasons I don't change my affiliation is we'll get nowhere doing that and I've explained that, too.
Z: Please don't take offense. Notice I said 'The average republican politician,' because I did not want to insult good conservatives like yourself.
Let's face it, Republican politicians have let us down. They say one thing but continue trampling the constitution and adding to our nations woes. I'm sick and tired of them.
we need to get rid of BOEHNER. TOTALLY and COMPLETELY. And SOON, hopefully.
@Z:
"we need to get rid of BOEHNER. TOTALLY and COMPLETELY. And SOON, hopefully."
And McLame, Graham and above all that toothless loon, McConnell who swore to destroy the TParty? Imagine, the "R's" eating their own? It's unbelievable. Do they actually think they can win an election without them?
They're supposed to be chewing up their real adversaries...the dems...not Cruz, or Paul.
Sam - "....when every major news outlet save one completely ignores the conservative message, or shows the GOP position in a negative light 24/7/365, or does nothing but use the “news” platform for attacking conservative political advertisements....."
Ignoring for a moment the fact that when you look at your statement through the lens of your political bias, it's going to be more extreme than the lens of one who does not share the same political bias........the problem with this argument and it's excusal for losing elections, is that people are generally not even talking about the news. When Z refers to Fox and their inclusion of selected 'liberals' and such...she isn't referring to the news. She is referring to commentary and opinion.
The reason I don't place much stock into media bias being a reason for poor showing at the polls, is that most of the pablum from cable channels [regarding politics] is commentary and opinion debate....not news.
Watching two parties send forth their paid spokes-bobbleheads to argue an issue as if it only had two sides to it, is entertainment...not news. It's no better than TMZ.
Perhaps society has accepted this in lieu of investigative reporting, and grown to live with not only bias, but constrained/channeled bias....all the more reason I would pick up stakes in the not-too-distant future, and move outside of this once great nation.
"we need to get rid of BOEHNER. TOTALLY and COMPLETELY. And SOON, hopefully."
This has my complete concurrence.
@Ducky.
I have BEEN to Italy. Twice.
Why you insist on being so belligerent is beyond me.
Have YOU been there?
Obviously not or you would know EXACTLY what I'm referring to.
I swear you give liberals a bad name.
Rita, pretty weird when your remark isn't understood, particularly by someone who's supposedly traveled.
Sorry about that....the inconveniences are very subtle sometimes, and they're even thing, as I said above, that I grew to love, but not 100% :-)
If you wish to assume that the news media has absolutely no influence on public opinion, as irrational as that sounds to me, so be it. But in order to make that assumption, one has to completely ignore the fact that the entire purpose of a political campaign is to influence opinion of prospective voters. And, in the attempt at influencing voter opinion the entire weight of the media leans to one side of the political spectrum, then a rational person has to conclude a somewhat skewed result on Election Day.
Of course, what you say about pabulum versus real news is absolutely true, but the average American doesn’t see the difference. You do, but you aren’t the average Joe. I agree that on Faux News one does get to observe two bubbleheads sharing talking points with one another and it’s all great entertainment. This isn’t the case on CNN or MSNBC, or ABC, or CBS. On those networks, you get only one point of view, and amazingly, unashamedly so. This is no accident, of course. You know this. It is rather the result of a (leftist) agenda, which does seem to reinforce my point, and defeat yours. But thank you for the opportunity to discuss this in some detail.
Z: no need for YOU to apologize for Ducky's ignorant comments. Those of us here are long used to his antagonistic behavior.
He must have such a sad, pathetic life whose whole existence is to start arguments even where none exists.
He reminds me of my great niece when she was five. My mother told her she would argue with a rattlesnake.
Her response, "No I wouldn't!" ;)
Here's the part I would love.
Shopping for FRESH food everyday.
Dining at real restaurants. Not some chain that pumps lousy food consistently.
Slower paced life. Tired of living to work, not working to live.
The wonderful people we have become friends with through our travels.
The beauty of the green "Grand Canyon" we saw in Tuscany, the sun setting on the Mediterranean from the cliffs of Manarola in Cinque Terre.
What I wouldn't love:
The constant threat of pickpockets and scammers filling the streets of Rome and Pisa.
The sometimes 45 degree trek or a thousand steps to get places. Although it sure made me in better shape.
The conveniences we've all gotten used to by having a washer AND a dryer. ;)
I saw a Cookery School in Siena. THAT is my dream.
Sam, one can't watch the Oscars and not hear some very smug little "hardy har har" at conservative politics or values.
It's everywhere.
I don't watch sitcoms anymore but I've had the TV on while one was on and have heard anti-Republican things as if it's just NORMAL. ...
Maybe only Dems watch stupid sitcoms. I'm not sure.
:-)
Rita...don't forget NO GARBAGE DISPOSAL! that was a tough one for me :=)
I adored NOT having every fruit or every mushroom all year long because when it was in season it was fabulous and SO much more appreciated.
And yes, the little NON-CHAIN restaurants...oh, and waiters who really KNOW THE FOOD and how to serve it.
And sitting outside on a lovely night....having a café and watching Paris or Vienna or Budapest or Rome go by...
Feeling part of that city when you've mastered the underground transportation "I DID IT!" :-)
I remember living in Munich and taking the UBahn to German class and suddenly there was an announcement as we waited for the train IN GERMAN! I'm thinking "What should I KNOW? Is there a problem??" It happened maybe 3 times and each time I asked someone, I picked someone by accident who was Irish or Australian!...ENGLISH! DANKE SCHOEN!! Thankfully, it got to where I knew what they were saying :-)
I loved the holidays in other countries, little obscure ones celebrated so quaintly...
shopping for groceries every day and feeling part of the city and loving it when the green grocer got that "Madame knows food..!" :-)
isn't it WONDERFUL?
THE SMELL of our apartment building was lovely...old and dignified. The black wrought iron that surrounded the elevator which I always said felt like you were standing up in a casket because it was so small :-)
I would practice piano and hear clapping from across the street where two people were having coffee on their balcony and listening!, and found a note in my mailbox once day that said "Thank you for bringing music to our building"
....if I started writing everything I loved about living in Europe, I'd never stop..........thanks for reminding me :-)
I'm so happy you have those great memories, too. I'm sure many of us do. I hope so.
Yes, only fresh, in-season food. Last time I was in Manarola I ordered mackerel. When it was served whole with the eyes looking at me, I had to overcome my midwest "sensitivity" and take a bit.
It was fabulous.
I was insistent we return to the place when we went back last May. The Mediterranean was wicked those days we were there, making for fabulous pics.
However when I ordered the mackerel, the waiter shook his head. He said, "No mackerel. The seas".
Ah yes. The disappointment means fresh isn't served if the seas are too rough to fish.
My original comment of "if I was a braver sort" was actually referring to being married and very close to my family. If I could transplant everyone with me, then is go in a heartbeat.
@Z & Rita:
Your memories read like picture postcards.
Z needs a whole blog on her stories of traveling with Mr. Z. She makes me want to travel to everywhere she's been.
Last week we were at Grand Turks and Bob was just in awe of the beauty of the water. I was telling him about Z's step daughter.
Sailing all over the world, what an adventure.
Imp, what a really marvelous thing to say; I love that.
Rita, something in me, deep down and unvoiced even to myself, told me that you included FAMILY in that 'braver sort' remark. I couldn't agree more.
I have to admit that Mr. Z, when he saw how blissful I was living in Paris and Munich, would sometimes say "You know, honey, if you didn't have email,I'm not so sure you'd be QUITE so happy here for so long!" He might have been right. I'm not sure; but I think he had a point!
I would love to hear posts about your life Z. Maybe that's more personal info than. You would want to publish, that I understand.
But your tales of Mr. Z and living abroad are fascinating.
"JonBerg; so you think we CAN reverse what we've been put in ??"
Did you erase what I said in response to that? No, I didn't say that we "CAN" I only said that we "must". If we don't what will we become? If this one disappears I don't plan to come back here.
Rita, I was just looking into some things I've written about all of that and yes, it's too personal and too revealing. I wish I could; I'd love to share more than I have.
I have written some about living in Paris for 9/11 and published it here.
Jon, what the ??? I didn't delete ANYTHING. Your comment is still there suggesting we MUST turn things around and my response was Do you think we CAN? ... in other words, you think we MUST and I ask you BUT IS IT POSSIBLE AT THIS POINT?
I remember your posts about living there during 9/11. In fact that's the first post of yours I think I ever read.
I understand that you don't want that much info out there, sad for us though.
Z said...
CI, not at all.
WE haven't changed...the GOP elitists and statists have. That's not me, trust me.
Thanks, Dr. Who. I don't know libertarians who voted for Obama, but maybe I just look at libertarians as too smug and unorganized to really pay much attention.
Check that out in Google, I think that you'll be surprised!
Young libertarians favored Obama over Romney by 10 points.
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/12/11/reason-poll-young-libertarians-favored-obama-over-romney-by-10-points/
"Young libertarians favored Obama over Romney by 10 points."
Of course the poll is premised up front, that the respondents did not self identify as Libertarians...so...
Hilder, thanks. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck. I'm not sure many young people even know what libertarian IS but they clearly share the markings.
Rita, thanks SO much. I would like to share more, and I appreciate your kindness about that....
I'd even like to change up my blog purpose (even talking travel instead) because as the mid terms get closer, I can only imagine what the lefties will be doing when they show up...it's always SO UGLY around election time and I think they're starting very early ...
Wait till you hear the talk shows where sudden new voices/callers start with "I used to be a Republican but just can't vote that way again because.........."
I swear, you'll laugh when you start hearing them...never fails...I love the hosts who say "Really? I've had 10 of you today, new callers, and I'll just bet you used to be a Republican".
I always wonder if they get paid to interfere with the talk shows and blogs?
But, I think it's too important to give up the politics at this point. Damn
Well someone(s) have certainly tried to interrupt your blog the last few months.
I don't know what they think they are accomplishing. I would hazard a guess that the liberal idiot who is posting the nasty comments about "extreme right wingers" is the same one who posts the racist comments regarding Michelle Obama.
And I scroll right past the ones who write a novel in the comments trying to take over your blog and try to deflect the post off topic.
I would LOVE it if you started a travel blog. You and your readers have been so many places it would be great. Imagine the travel stories you would get.
Travel blog...not a bad idea.
And yes, I do believe the rabid, nasty Michelle Obama comments I delete when I see them are leftists trying to make our cons. blogs look bad. No doubt about it.
And they usually mention a lefty blog which doesn't get read much, so I'm thinking there's something going on there, too. A little jealousy?
Yes. Travel blog. You could start by getting everyone to lost the place they have been and then take one place and solicit stories about their travel. Then go to another one.
I have some funny "Bob" stories of things he's done while traveling. My family still laughs at them twenty years later.
I could be a great vacation guide too.
Oh please, please, please?
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