"Any violation of
Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity would be deeply destabilizing,
such action by Russia would represent a profound interference in matters that
must be decided by the Ukrainian people.
So there, you brute.”
—Barack Obama, 2014
“After the Russian Army
invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama’s reaction was one of indecision
and moral equivalence, the kind of response that would only encourage Russia’s
Putin to invade Ukraine next.”
—Sarah Palin, 2008
What do you think, America …
is Obama the best you can do?
133 comments:
Two essays on Obama's foreign policy -- the first essay in yesterday's WaPo:
1. U.S. foreign policy comes home to roost with Russia’s action in Ukraine
2. Barack Obama's Foreign Policy: An Utter Failure
Putin has correctly discerned that Obama is no match for him.
Now, tell me this: Which world leaders respect Obama?
Recent essay by the WaPo editorial board:
FOR FIVE YEARS, President Obama has led a foreign policy based more on how he thinks the world should operate than on reality. It was a world in which “the tide of war is receding” and the United States could, without much risk, radically reduce the size of its armed forces. Other leaders, in this vision, would behave rationally and in the interest of their people and the world. Invasions, brute force, great-power games and shifting alliances — these were things of the past. Secretary of State John F. Kerry displayed this mindset on ABC’s “This Week” Sunday when he said, of Russia’s invasion of neighboring Ukraine, “It’s a 19th century act in the 21st century.”
That’s a nice thought, and we all know what he means. A country’s standing is no longer measured in throw-weight or battalions. The world is too interconnected to break into blocs. A small country that plugs into cyberspace can deliver more prosperity to its people (think Singapore or Estonia) than a giant with natural resources and standing armies.
Unfortunately, Russian President Vladimir Putin has not received the memo on 21st-century behavior. Neither has China’s president, Xi Jinping, who is engaging in gunboat diplomacy against Japan and the weaker nations of Southeast Asia. Syrian president Bashar al-Assad is waging a very 20th-century war against his own people, sending helicopters to drop exploding barrels full of screws, nails and other shrapnel onto apartment buildings where families cower in basements. These men will not be deterred by the disapproval of their peers, the weight of world opinion or even disinvestment by Silicon Valley companies. They are concerned primarily with maintaining their holds on power.
Mr. Obama is not responsible for their misbehavior. But he does, or could, play a leading role in structuring the costs and benefits they must consider before acting. ...
More at the above link.
So, we see the results of the American electorate bringing twice into the Oval Office "The Eloquently Tailored Empty Suit"! The writers of the above essay are incorrect, however, in the following assertion: Sadly, that’s the nature of the century we’re living in.
The problem isn't merely "the nature of the century."
And here's something else, dated March 1: Obama Skips National Security Team Meeting on Russia, Ukraine.
If the above is true, WHY didn't Obama attend that meeting?
Interesting addition to the Obama quote....
I don't consider this any more a litmus for Obama's Administration than I did the Russian invasion of Georgia to be for Bush. Of course we can do better, but this is political theater.
Palin was lucky to have remembered that the Ukraine was anywhere near Russia, and she well could have picked any other former Soviet satellite.
The only asset at our disposal for countering Russia's moves is in the financial realm. Those should be implemented, and the first steps have been. Blustering about taking a harder stand is always going to come sans any viable alternative from armchair commandos proving their internet machismo.
We've seen this before and we'll see this again.
Obama is not providing western leadership for freedom and democracy as he should......therefore you have a commie dictator dealing with Germany, Britain, and the EU separately...while the weakling sits on the sidelines taking selfies at Happy Hour...And you can rest assured that Putin is not afraid of Obama.
Do you think Putin cares if the nations around the world condemn Russia??
The Marxist Muslim POS is passively supporting communism IMHO......
An Empty Suit, of course he's an Empty Suit! Nobody ever said he was a fiscal genius, that's for sure.
Leave Obama alone. He's doing the most important thing of his presidency... threatening the Jews!
The American people did not elect him because he was capable. They elected him so they could show the other side was racist.
If you think back to Romney's position on most of the issues during the campaign, his crystal ball was spot on.
Obamacare will cost jobs
Raising taxes does not create jobs
The Iran and the Ukraine are set for Russian takeover.
Obama's stance was the cold was is dead. Lead from behind does it again.
Russia has taken over Iran? Who knew.
Obama has presided of the repeal of the bush tax cuts? Who knew?
I'm not sure what the fringe right would do in this situation except try to drive a wedge between Russia and Ukraine which isn't going to work.
Of course this situation isn't over and we have no idea how it will turn out.
Palin can't locate the Crimea on a freakin' map.
And Obama can ? That's news to me,
I was looking forward to Ducky's superficiality today, and I am not disappointed.
"After the Russian Army invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama’s reaction ..."
-------------
The Pole Dancer thinks Obama had the say on how Bush responded to the Georgia situation?
But all the fringe right knows what's happening behind the scenes. What kind of arrangements are being made for energy supplies.
Is Putin prepared to lose the foreign exchange and risk putting the ruble in free fall?
But war mongers here would prefer to try to back Putin into a corner. Hell, the Ukrainian people will bear the brunt. Who cares as long as we look like we have a big unit, right?
Palin was lucky to have remembered...
Palin can't locate the Crimea on a freakin' map.
CI & Ducky...now was the misogynistic, snarky remark about Palin necessary?
Once more the liberal just can't seem to contain that "tolerance" they claim to have exclusive ownership of.
What a shame. What Bullshit. That'd you taint two good and reasonable responses with a lousy, low blow smear.
Shallow, mustang? You're analysis comes down to, "Obama sucks" and you are calling others shallow?
Imp - "CI & Ducky...now was the misogynistic, snarky remark about Palin necessary?"
What was misogynistic about my remark? It had nothing to do with her gender. I think she's intellectually incurious. A political bobble head.
She's the GOPs Wasserman-Schultz.
Yea...and Boxer, Waters, Feinstein, Clinton, Jordan, Jackson Lee and Frederica Wilson are all intellectuals giants.
I get it.
A real, bona fide "intellectual bobble head'" can be seen today masquerading as the newest Secretary of State..IMO.
"......are all intellectuals giants."
Um, no.
"A real, bona fide "intellectual bobble head'" can be seen today masquerading as the newest Secretary of State."
Yep.
Uh oh! It seems that Russia may have issued an ultimatum with a time/date stamp.
CI:
Thanks. I will say this though..SP is a hell of a lot brighter than the current VP.
Seems that an IQ of a hair weave is all thats required. And it's not just his constant malapropisms either. To think that this guy is a heart beat away from the POTUS, makes building an underground bunker look reasonable.
Imp - No real argument there, but I'd put them more on par with each other. Biden is a sad representative of the political class, but I hold that we usually get what we deserve. Palin is a talking bumper sticker.
When more Americans can detail the contestants and results of "Dancing With the Stars" than the Standing Rules of the United States Senate [or even knows what the means].......we get the policy decisions of the last 14 years [and earlier].
Shame on us.
CI:
Thanks. It's early Monday and I'm already depressed.
CI:
Uh Oh...http://tinyurl.com/lblbcrl
Z - Obama may be the best we can do but it's all we've got right now. And we need to stand behind him so that we can do the best for our country.
"Uh Oh......"
Some good points, but ultimately it's just another critique without proffering alternatives.
It's ridiculously easy to sit back and criticize every move by any Administration, but in this instance....Crimea is not worth entering into a major war over.
@Sue:
Yea...let's hope he doesn't draw another line in the sand...we all know how that'll work out. And stand behind "him".
My bet is on Putin winning this show down. This is well above Our Dear leader's pay grade.
What would a President Romney do differently?
Interesting thought, and I'm not sure that I've seen it anywhere else:
Whether Putin wins or loses in Ukraine, the odds that Russia could be a reliable partner for the U.S. have decreased dramatically. And this only reinforces the painfully obvious: When it comes to the core issues facing the U.S. in the Middle East, the U.S. must focus on outcomes, not solutions, and be very sober about what it might do to contribute to them..
I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the above, but, as I said, it's an interesting thought. The Law of Unintended Consequences so often rears its head.
@CI:
Point is WAPO hasn't been one of his consistent cheer leaders for awhile. 4 Pinocchio's and all that?
When he looses them....as they're obviously concerned about his credibility again ... it's a sure sign he's treading water.
And they're not drinking Jarrett's or Rice's kool aide either.
CI (about that "fantasy" essay in the WaPo):
Some good points, but ultimately it's just another critique without proffering alternatives.
What are the alternatives?
Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks to me as if Putin has all the highest cards in the deck right now.
@CI:
Romney? Come on. What difference would speculating on that do for the problem?
He can only talk. If he wants to. Just like Obama.
Imp - I get that, and it's it's good to see them taking the Administration to task, but I would like to see some viable alternatives, if any exist. Thus far, I can't identify any courses of action other than diplomatic and financial. It's not in our national interest to go beyond that.
The hue and cry across the internet about him being 'weak', is hollow without realistic substantiation.
AOW - "Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks to me as if Putin has all the highest cards in the deck right now."
Exactly. Putin [and Gazprom] hold every card in the deck. Thus, making this event a litmus for Obama is untenable.
Imp - "What difference would speculating on that do for the problem?"
Because criticism without contrast, is just criticism for it's own sake. If the argument is that the response to the Ukraine problem shows Obama is a 'weak' leader, then one has to show what a 'strong' leader would be able to accomplish in this same situation.
@CI:
Last two sentences are spot on.
Weak? He has been before. His style is to procrastinate as long as he can. Or vote..."Present". Waffling.
@CI:
We don't have the luxury of contrast or comparison. We have One POTUS at a time. And whatever he does is the only comparison or contrast to what he's done in the past.
I don't want to hear from Bush (Jeb either) Clinton or Romney. None of them or their opinions count. Obama is the only official that can play the game.
Imp - Alright, then what should Obama be doing in regards to the situation in Ukraine?
@CI:
I said...your last two sentences were spot on. However...the unintended consequences of financial penalties....against Russia and Putin's personal wealth, will bring Putin to turning off the heat in the EU.
He's used energy as a most effective weapon in the past.
From Z of Geeez;
There's barely a person here who thinks much less of Palin than I do, but anybody who thinks SHE'S stupid isn't paying attention.
None of US have become mayor or governor or candidate for VP of the United States, so let's just sit back and take a breath.
CI...I don't think we should do ANYTHING about Ukraine right now....let the UN finally do something useful.
The one thing Obama could NOT do is stop what he HAS said so far.
I remember he insulted PUtin right at the beginning of the Olympics; We need someone who has a LITTLE bit of class and dignity and I, for at least one, don't feel safe in his hands ONE BIT. the least safe I've ever felt in ANY American President's hands. And I think other countries are on to that, too...not MY feeling unsafe, but OUR BEING unsafe.
Oh, sure! Let's tell the world we're 17 trillion in debt, are cutting our military to pre WW capacity and get involved with Ukraine! :-) (sarcasm)
By the way, could we criticize Hitler without asking "who are you contrasting him to?" And NO, for GOd's sake, I'm not comparing Obama with Hitler...I'm hoping the inference in my comment is clear and nobody has to 'go there' to demean what I said; which I believe is accurate.
Yes, we CAN criticize: And it's time we have good ideas and the media actually at LEAST talks about them.
Here it comes CI:
Russian Stocks Crash As Central Bank Scrambles, Hikes Rates Most Since 1998 Default...
Stocks Tumble, Supply Concerns See Food, Energy and Precious Metals Rise
Desperate to halt capital outflows and a collapsing currency, Russian stocks have crashed 11% led by some of the country's largest banks.
The new world order cometh! Our Manchurian Candidate President is just following orders.
Yep, the Russian economy is fragile. Sometimes overtly interventionist moves have a negative effect on such an economy.
Today, as in 2008, American policy makers have found themselves burned after trying to make Vladimir Putin a partner when Putin himself sees America as a rival.
This has often led Republican and Democratic led administrations to find themselves flat footed in the face of Russian aggression and U.S. intelligence analysts racing to explain how they misread Putin’s motivations.
“This is less a question of how many collection resources we throw at Russia and more broadly about the analytic challenge of understanding Putin’s mind set,” said Michael Hayden, a former CIA director and NSA director under President George W. Bush. “Here our Secretary of State is saying this is not the Cold War, it’s win-win and it’s not zero sum. But for Vladimir Putin it is zero sum. That’s what we need to understand.”
Maybe Putin will recall the space lab or kick our astronauts out of it??
I did see a photo opp today that made me feel better. El Presidente with sleeves rolled up and on the phone, he looked like he was all business and ready to work for the country. Too cold for golf I guess.
There is nothing the US can do (now) about the situation in Ukraine. Mr. Powder Puff simply doesn’t have what it takes to go one-on-one with any of the world’s leaders. Obama is so impotent, he cannot even lead the western nations toward establishing stop gaps to Russia’s intended actions. And if we can see this, Putin can see it too. I had to laugh: while the limp wrists are sitting around having discussion about the Ukraine, Russia is seizing it.
And ducky, Palin is a hell of a lot smarter than you.
And West Texas and Brent are going up as we speak...why? I don't know.
Put the screws to Putin and watch who suffers. Next week gas will be $5 a gallon.
All the poor minimum wage workers will have spent their wage increases just to get to work.
Just as "green" energy always screws the poor and middle class.
"American intelligence has concluded that Russia won't openly invade Ukraine, despite a massive military exercise on the border and the armed takeover of local airports. U.S. intelligence estimates conclude that Russia has no intention of invading Ukraine."
Source: National Intelligence Spokesman
Obama Administration
27 February 2014
How about this, Sammy.
Natural gas contracts get reworked to use Algerian or other North African gas in Western Europe instead of Russian. The Russian economy takes a foreign exchange hit that it can't easily absorb.
Putin is given a way to extricate himself which leaves Ukrainian territorial integrity intact and the situation is defused, at least temporarily.
It won't do anything for Ukrainians or the Ukrainian economy but as I said, who really gives a fart in hell about them, right?
Let the EU make a deal with the oligarchs and we all go 'round again.
Impertinent said...
Palin was lucky to have remembered...
Palin can't locate the Crimea on a freakin' map.
CI & Ducky...now was the misogynistic, snarky remark about Palin necessary?
Once more the liberal just can't seem to contain that "tolerance" they claim to have exclusive ownership of.
What a shame. What Bullshit. That'd you taint two good and reasonable responses with a lousy, low blow smear
---
Thanks Imp. The inconsistencies are disheartening....
Remember Putin's letter to the editor last fall?
Here's the final paragraph (emphasis mine):
My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.
IMO, Putin also remembers Hagel's statement: "We are entering an era where American dominance on the seas, in the skies, and in space can no longer be taken for granted."
Also IMO, Putin detects a vacuum in the system of world power and may have decided that Russia is going to fill that vacuum. In other words, he sees an opportunity to solidify Russia's power.
I agree with what said in his comment above: There is nothing the US can do (now) about the situation in Ukraine.
From Z:
Imp, I think politicians are so afraid of what OUR media's going to say about our being tough and resolute on many foreign subjects, that we're completely powerless.
Plus, a president who talks about 'costs' that will be incurred if Putin makes a particular move, are not effective and our not following through makes us look like the dopey, weak, big place AMerica's become.
I have to think that foreign leaders, allies and not, Al Qaeda, Taliban...all of those types who watch our news programs and all the screaming and shouting and infighting in OUR OWN COUNTRY, have to be just lickin' their chops. Then to read leftwing venues like THE NATION, TIME, etc., makes them
only laugh more.
They've just got to be seeing that disarray and constant argument and think "The American TV viewers are getting a good show just so the stations can sell advertising time; their fighting about what to do about their economy, their healthcare, Syria, Crimea, Ukraine...all this is just a show because they can't afford to do anything effective, anyway, and they're never in accord on ANYTHING..hilarious! Who do they think they ARE?"
If WE hate ourselves, they're supposed to do what? respect us?
Nations are filled with men, who belonging to the human race dominate all other species. And not just other species, but also others like them. We nevertheless spend a lot of time arguing about one political philosophy as opposed to another, as if it really matters. We can see that our grand American experiment has failed simply by virtue to trying to form egalitarian societies, which go against the grain of human nature. So rather than developing into a bright shining city on the hill where all men can embrace one another, as equals, all we have managed to do is divide that city into territories: one for Hispanics, another for Africans, one for militant homosexuals, and one for white African wannabes. I fear this is not what our founding fathers had in mind. Now look at the world and you see the same exact thing: enclaves of human beings, each jockeying for position. It has always been this way, and it always must … it is human nature. The question is, will America (now being the land of emasculated men) be conquered by real men —Russian men, perhaps, who have no fondness for homosexuals or community organizers? Stay tuned.
From Z of GeeeZ:
Always On Watch, I disagree with PUtin's statement about exceptionalism; most countries, weak or strong, relied on our exceptionalism for years and it's only probably just now sinking in that they've lost that safety net they had...they've lost the aid, the military support.. They wanted us exceptional, they were envious of our exceptionalism...they surely are not now.
I think he knows that. But he's playing to people like Ducky; frankly, the paragraph you just quoted sounded exactly like Ducky; he's bemoaned American exceptionalism FOR YEARS. Ridiculously naïve and silly, but, nevertheless...that's the leftwing thing. "NEVER feel we're better..it's not nice." (imagine?)
And yes, one thing leftwingers seem never to have understood is that a country WILL be exceptional and with their having brought US down, who do they want to fill that space? China? Russia?
Nice job, lefties....
after all, we couldn't let people think we were powerful and good, could we :-)
From Z:
Jack? BRAVO. nothing much more to add to that.
I suppose you agree with my comment above yours suggesting how hard our enemies must be laughing at us now.
The Russian central bank just jacked interest rates 150 basis points to try to stop a run on the ruble.
This situation has consequences in Russia.
Now need to spout nonsense about military action. As if we ever had any influence in Ukraine to begin with.
@Z & Jack:
Face it...we are no longer the "United" States of America. We are more divided and fractured that half the Soviet satellites or the "stans" of Asia.
We've been balkanized, cateorgized and completely separated. Divided into ethnic straight jackets defined by hyphens. This is no longer the country I knew since the late 80's.
We are nothing without...borders, a common language (1) and culture.
Z,
I'm not saying that I agree with Putin's statement. Not at all! You rightly said: most countries, weak or strong, relied on our exceptionalism for years.
But I am saying that Putin has implied his intentions to fill the vacuum of power that I mentioned in my comment.
I might be wrong, but that is my assessment.
US stocks slammed by uncertainty over standoff in Ukraine -- about an hour ago.
I won't say that Romney could have prevented this mess but he sure, as heck, understood Russia and Putin for what they are about. Those of you who elected/reelected "Powder Puff" should hide, in shame!
A 1% slide is hardly "slammed", AOW.
Movement of that size is a standard day lately.
JonBerg, can you point to anything in Romney's background which indicated he "understands Russia".
My guess is that he's a little more sophisticated than Palin who probably thought the Georgian invasion when Obama was a freshman senator meant it was his fault that Atlanta was overrun by Cossacks but I doubt Romney has any unusual abilities here.
Z - "Then to read leftwing venues like THE NATION, TIME, etc., makes them only laugh more."
Why would you think that of only the left wing venues? Our nation building adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan were gifts to al Qaeda. Certain venues promoted those endeavors with unmitigated glee.
Our underestimating of Putin goes back years.
"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul."
From Z:
Imp...of course you're right...no borders, no language, and leftwingers still insist there IS no American Culture. The fun never stops. How dangerous a road they have led us down.
Ducky, that's not AOW's title, of course. Someone wiser than you apparently feels it's a slam.
And could you please point to anything which suggests Palin "PROBABLY" that the Georgian invasion was anything but what it was?
ANd never one to champion Palin, did you know she only said you can see Russia from a particular island off Alaska and she was correct? She never said she could see it from her house.
Gee, we sure get wrong information when we buy into the "Hate all Republicans all the time" lies, huh, Ducky? :-)
Duck,
No Jobs Obama got caught capitulating to the Russians with his open mike moment. Looks like they do not take him as a serious leader, of course neither do we.
Like Biden said this is not a job for OJT and Hillary's 3am phone call finally came but no one was home.
He needs to do what he does best, encourage poverty and take down the middle class.
CI,
I well remember those words spoken by GWB.
Is Putin a charmer or something?
@Ducky:
Jeezus Duck...you just can't resist can you? W T F has Palin got to do with any damn thing? You look like an ass for dragging in a person who has nothing to do with anything globally, does she? Just keep throwing snotty low balls...I thought you had more brains and class than that...At least you pretend to....But, you've proved me wrong.
Not that you give a rats ass.
Get over it...this is not an SNL skit or Jon Stewart's silly comedy hour masquerading as "news".
Isn't Sarah Palin old news, anyway?
The point is what the Obama administration is doing -- or not doing.
AOW - "Is Putin a charmer or something?"
I'm beginning to think he's got dark magic on his side. Looks pretty good for his age, quite physically fit, and apparently a charmer.
Something wicked this way comes.....
Imp - Palin is featured prominanetly in the blog post.
@Imp ---
Jeezus Duck...you just can't resist can you? W T F has Palin got to do with any damn thing?
----
mustang chose to post a quote from her relative to the invasion of Georgia which happened when he was a freshman senator. That somehow meant that as president Russia would invade Ukraine.
Just another indicator that this is all about dumping on Obama regardless of the circumstances or the merits.
I might add that when Obama screwed up over Syria, Putin helped him out.
You remember that one, Obama threatened to do "a Bolton".
Cooler heads will likely prevail in Ukraine but the Ukrainian people are still going to lose. Once again we see that the only offer is a choice of oligarchs.
Seriously? Ukraine is all about dumping on Obama? LOL …
@CI:
Where...in this post today?
The Eloquently Tailored Empty Suit???
It doesn't matter...ignore her... she's history and not much of it.
I can't read Mustang's mind, of course. But maybe he had in mind "The Smartest Man in the World" didn't have the foresight that Sarah Palin had.
Just a thought in between bouts of shoveling out here. Richard III: "Now is the winter of our discontent."
Yes, Imp.
mustang brought up Palin so she's fair game in cross examination.
@Duck:
I still can't find that. But I think that if anyone should be mocked & criticized mercilessly today...it'd be McPain.
He can't keep his mouth shut and he's a total embarrassment and a huge PITA.
Imp, you have to remember that ducky loves to change the direction of the conversation. I’m almost certain ducky get’s confused sometimes, and so it is necessary to get him back on track until his meds kick in.
Palin isn’t president, Obama is. And yet, this woman who everyone seems to love to hate (and I have no emotional response to her whatsoever) adequately predicted that Obama is an empty suit. As it turns out, Palin was right about that—and ducky was wrong about that.
But cheer up ducky; maybe you can begin fantasizing about Joe Biden instead.
"JonBerg, can you point to anything in Romney's background which indicated he "understands Russia"."
I refer you to, a least, one 2012 pre election debate where Romney clearly identified the dangers of Russia only to be castigated by Powder Puff" for alleged "1980's" "Cold War" thinking. In light of current events this information has become replete on various internet sites but I bet that you already knew that.
You can't find this in the lead article, Imp?
“After the Russian Army invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama’s reaction was one of indecision and moral equivalence, the kind of response that would only encourage Russia’s Putin to invade Ukraine next.”
—Sarah Palin, 2008
And Obama was correct, JonBerg.
Putin has been cooperative in Syria and Iran unless you prefer bombing Iran to the current agreement.
Do you really think Russia will table its interests in Ukraine due to who is in the White House?
Are you serious?
Romney was just stirring up the crackpot base and in this case Obama was correct.
"Do you really think Russia will table its interests in Ukraine due to who is in the White House?"
NOT NOW!
@Duck:
Well thanks...now I don't have to search for it, do I?
But that sounded pretty damn prescient to me.
Of course...I'll probably be wrong.
At least Putin had better excuses than Bush did when he invaded Iraq, with his made up fears of WMD.
How quickly the right forgets when it's convenient. Well....Obama got Russia to tell Syria to give up their chems, got Osama, got Khadaffi, Iran is ready to talk....
We have a lot more respect than when the cowboy was threatening everyone and leading a coalition of mostly third world countries to invade innocent countries and kill millions.
And if you recall it was McCain who said we shouldn't go in to Pakistan to get him.
Obama knocked the doors down anyway.
I remember how the media including Fox News was calling Bush weak when Russia invaded Georgia. Oh, wait. No they didn't and he did nothing. But I remember when McCain ridiculously said "we’re all Georgians now," Lol!
From Z:
SOmetimes it seems so crystal clear that nuance isn't quite understood in some of Mustang and my posts, like today's.
I believe it is very clear why Palin was used here; not championing her but making a pretty darned obvious point to most people. Worthy of showing the typical leftwing ignorance of truth, basically....and ignoring any Obama faux pas, of course.
DUCKY: I seriously think you need to start a news business because you seem to know SO much information SO much better than anyone IN the news business (or at the White House, Dept of Treasury, etc.)...consider it. Your sources must be very special and very private, too, because one just stands in awe of your apparent conviction of truth in everything you say. Give it a whirl!
From Z:
Mustang, PLEASE, this time, leave Liberalmann up...it's just too much fun to read and wonder where he gets his information :-) This typical "hindsight is the left's reality" cracks me UP.
thanks, Mustang...and for this post. I hope to be back by Friday or Saturday :-)
It is entirely possible that the duck has forgotten the groundswell of jeering and disparagement directed at Palin after her statement in 2008. Or perhaps it is merely convenient to disremember what was being said, and in what context. You know, much like the left misspeaks. And of course, if Palin was right about Russia in 2008, and if Mitt Romney was right about Russia in 2011, then what else were they right about? Well, domestic drilling for one (if you’ve seen the spike in oil prices since Putin’s Push). But let me also say that I am underwhelmed by the idiotic comments made by GOP Representatives and Senators. Freeze Russia’s assets? Are you kidding me? Wouldn’t that be the same as shooting ourselves in the foot? … Which is probably why freezing Russian assets is exactly what Obama will do.
Anonymous said..."Mustang, PLEASE, this time, leave Liberalmann up.."
...
Show me where I'm wrong.
"Is Obama the best we can do?"
Probably not.
Now, the question becomes if not Obama, then who? The standard response of anyone else is simply not a credible answer.
As CI pointed out, criticism without an alternative isn't a lot of help.
I noticed no one here took up CI's question...
If Obama's response is a response of a weak president, what would the response of a "strong" president look like?
Perhaps it is easier to carp than search for real, legitimate alternative solutions... I certainly can't come up with any.
I do find it amusing that within the span of 2 weeks Obama has gone from being an Imperialistic Dictator/King to essentially a weak kneed namby pamby.
Not sure how he can simultaneously be both...
Lib... don't look for many here to admit that Obama's response here is essentially the same as we saw in Georgia. Strangely, his saber rattling did not prevent that event from happening, did it?
@Liberl...?:
Can I start with the first day you learned to talk?
@Dave M:
I noticed no one here took up CI's question...
And for good reason...it can't be answered with anything other than hyperbole...and whomever was suggested, is not now, in the correct time, space and position.
Palin was sharp enough to adequately peg Barack Obama as indecisive, ineffective, and inexperienced. The Washington Post today characterized Obama’s foreign policy as one based on fantasy, but of course this is where the leftists live. I’m certain Obama has the sense that he must do something about Ukraine, but I’m also certain that Obama has no idea about what that should be. I’m sure there is a lesson to this somewhere.
From Z:
Jack, are you seeing as much criticism of Obama from the NY Times and, particularly, the Post, as I am? He's had so many Pinocchio noses he needs a warehouse of Kleenex to blow it.
Dave, you're not sure how a 'leader' can be a 'Dictator/King' at home (please read what Jonathan Turley has to say and consider signing a bill nobody had to time to read, etc etc) and weak kneed on foreign policy? Ah, come on...tryyyyyyyyyyy. It's easy, if you're looking for truth and not just standing up for your guy.
Libdope: I can't bother 'showing you' anything. You need to learn a little more and come back if you must. But I'll ask you this "Iran is ready to talk?" About what? And, while we're twiddling our thumbs with them do you think they've stopped their nuclear ambitions? Or do you think they've only been working on nuclear ENERGY, their silly excuse-line that only persuades liberals hopeful they'll like us and back off? :-)
I'll let you mull over that for the night. GOod luck.
Oh, and I'm thinkin' maybe McCain wouldn't have said we shouldn't go to Pakistan to 'get him' had he learned from our CIA or military that he was there? :-)
that's what I meant by HINDSIGHT. Look it up.
goodnight, folks...see you Tuesday.
Imp - "And for good reason...it can't be answered with anything other than hyperbole..."
I would offer that criticism for it's own sake is also just that...hyperbole.
My underlying point was not what President X would have done [though I offered that as an entry], but what course of action could this Administration take, that would meet with approval from a consensus here. Because my general assessment is that the answer might be 'none'. Which of course, is intellectually untenable.
@Ci:
Well...all I'd have to offer is more...hyperbole. So it looks like I'm done here.
FROM Z just before I go HOME today:
CI.....what about legitimate criticism, or do you think that doesn't exist here? Not sure of your mindset so much of the time.
If someone's doing something we don't respect or like we can't criticize and it's hypberole because we don't have our own solution for what we think that person is doing wrong?
My goodness...what a conclusion!
Also, I'm not sure that consensus here makes much of a difference or would even be necessarily correct. What we do here is discuss and hone our ideas and hear others' opinions...it's a good thing.
It's odd because you always (and that's not hyperbole) seem to snidely insult the conversations here and draw the oddest negative conclusions. It's 'intellectually untenable' to not reach an agreement?
It's not our JOB to reach an agreement. It's our president's job to consult the best in the field and draw up a plan; ignoring the opinions of experts as he has Generals, etc., is intellectually untenable as it can get.
I'm sorry my commenters just can't seem to lean as left as you'd like, by the way.
GOodnight, all! Z
@Z:
All I can say is... exasperation...so thanks.
Z, what is the point of criticism without looking for realistic solutions?
Whether it is by the left, or the right, how are critiques that do not have a solution as a goal, useful other than to help people feel better because they got a chance to complain?
O'Bammo made a deal with the Ruskkies in that Treaty to disarm our Missiles. Have they been destroyed?
Are we sitting ducks? The Ruskkies did not sign on, but O'Bammo did.
If O'Bammo haddened signed that treaty-and we still had a go for the Missiles Ruskkies would not be feeling much oats today.
Let’s get real, Palin has the cognitive dissonance of an angry prepubescent teen that is all about hair, makeup and snide remarks about people she knows she is intellectually inferior too. She would have been the annoying cheerleader for McCain war forever inc.
She might just be the least intellectually curious person to ever run for a high political position, someone who thought that Africa was a country, someone who couldn’t tell you without reading it off a teleprompter what continent the Ukraine is on.
So once again, would she have been all for a nuclear showdown over Georgia or the Ukraine and
What about that obama line in the sand in Syria?
What about obama's line in the Afghanistan sand?
Or obama's peace plan for the ME, which calls for a Israeli state and a palestinian stte and everybody happy happy happy, just like obama remembers in muslim kindeygarten before he trashed his brain with hard drugs.
If obama wanted to make a point he would say You want to see Empty Threats??? I'll show you pathetic empty threats !
The natural progression of American presidential history would place Tiny Tim in there. he could play his ukulaylee and sing tiptoe through the tulips for visiting dignitaries. FOr an encore, tiny tim's boyfriend could sing The Good Ship Lollipop.
CI, Economic solution? If kim jong fun can print conterfeit 100's that are impossible to tell apart from real $100's, imagine what russia can do. Their middle name is copy.
To the folks trying to change the subject. What would romney do? what would Palin do? Who cares. They're not playing. It doesn't matter. How about concentrating on what a pathetic incompetent anti-American imbecile child the obama is and how America (and by extension you and your descendents) are going to survive this incredible incompetence and abuse on America's health.
?
How about that. That would be productive. Maybe
AOW,And WaPo has been a Rabid liberal propaganda machine. That they're now trashing obama means obama has gone way out of bounds with his incompetence or this all fits into their 'next election' strategy. ie, present that 187 year old satan bitch clinton as the new solution
Well of course, if one cannot speak of Obama in glowing terms, it is only proper that they sit down and shut up. I mean, who really wants to hear from a skeptic?
I seem to recall that the Nazi apparatus didn't like it when anyone spoke out against Hitler, too.
Okay, makes perfect sense now.
CI, Putin a charmer? he's a 7th degree black belt in Taekwando -probably more focused than the entire US Congress.
Well, I commented before I read all the comments. Kudos to the folks pointing out the left's classic strategy of trying to misdirect when they're unable to discuss the content.
Dave Miller, Fair question. Who...
A Constitutional Conservative American deeply concerned with the individual liberties of Americans and the common sense approaches to energy, legislation and pretty much everything else that created a country and a system that took the libtards 300 years to destroy.
Never happen though.
Dave Miller. To a large extent, we are all standing around looking at a car with the engine on fire, all tires flat, steering wheel fell off like a Chevy Cruze(car of the year!) and some of you folks are trying to discuss it on the basis of "Ok, how can we get this car back on the road so we can get to our destination."
You can't. It won't, and it don't It even Isn't and it was never. This is what should be put on obama's headstone when he passes away of natural causes in his home state of Kenya which we'll annex over the next few years.
It's particularly unnerving to remember what Obama said when he ran in '08. He admired John Kennedy's early summit with the Russians and he wanted to be just like that with other, modern beligerants.
My jaw dropped when I heard Obama cite this, since the 'effects' were disastrous and are widely recognized as such. In Kennedy's own words 'he [Krushchev] handed me my head on a platter.'
Obama was publicly admitting he wanted to follow in the footsteps of a naive and weak leader who made a good show at home of foreign parlays but whose fecklessness led to Soviet emboldenment and aggression for which many paid dearly:
Krushchev assessed his man well and shortly embarked on:
1) the Berlin wall
2) Cuban missiles
3) Soviet support and build-up of their Marxist ally, Ho Chi Minh.
Things aren't looking much better with Obama. It's frightening to ponder how he may yet follow in Kennedy's footsteps. Yikes!
"DUCKY: I seriously think you need to start a news business"
GOO ONE, HA HA!
Damn. What a thread! I'm sorry that I had to bow out early -- my back is out after yesterday's snow shoveling and ice chipping to free up the wheelchair ramp here before single-digit temps descended on our heads.
@ Kid,
WaPo has been a Rabid liberal propaganda machine. That they're now trashing obama means obama has gone way out of bounds with his incompetence or this all fits into their 'next election' strategy. ie, present that 187 year old satan bitch clinton as the new solution
Probably so. She'll also be promoted as the one with the solution for ObamaCare's failings.
Putin the charmer: he hunts whales with a crossbow. Obama plays golf.
Z - "....what about legitimate criticism, or do you think that doesn't exist here?"
Is criticism legitimate if you're unable to proffer a correct course of action? Becasue that is what we have here, a lot of criticism because it's Obama, but nothing thoughtful on what he should be doing. I'm not sure why one would waste the time.
"If someone's doing something we don't respect or like we can't criticize and it's hypberole because we don't have our own solution for what we think that person is doing wrong?
My goodness...what a conclusion!"
Yes, that is quite a conclusion. How can you criticize an action, if you can't illustrate how it is wrong? You may think my commentary snide, but I hold my opinions and assessment to an extremely high standard, and test them constantly. I want my political position to be informed and substantive, and I do that by challenging them. Calling Obama a Marxist-Kenyan-Communist-antichrist-whatever, may make me feel better, but it's not a tenable position based in fact.
"I'm sorry my commenters just can't seem to lean as left as you'd like, by the way."
You're kidding, right? Now I get to employ your oft used line: you haven't been paying attention. This isn't about left or right, this is about intellectual honesty. If you don't care about that in your own dialogue, how can you hold your opposition to any standard?
In using the standard defintion of Conservatism to mean individual sovereignty, limited governance and intellectual honesty....you'd note that I care not a whit for leftists. In fact, it might be nice if the right weren't so left....
The word on the street is that Obama has had enough of being disrespected by Putin. So Obama has resolved to do something about it, he has de-friended Putin on Facebook.
LA,
Long time, no see!
Here is a graphic to go along with your comment.
Libby,
"She might just be the least intellectually curious person to ever run for a high political position"
Now you disrespect Biden because he holds that title without any competition.
... and Libby is the least intellectually curious person never to run for a high political position.
From Z of GeeeZ:
Dave Miller; criticism is often given with WHY the criticism is given; that's a good thing. Discussing any subject. Also, I have to admit I think it's a kind of shot in the arm to so many conservatives who see an unethical media NOT discussing and criticizing as it would have Bush, for example. Taking Bush out of it, let's just say it's time for the media to step up and expose what's going on.
Most Americans hear "Bush and Reagan signed laws into being without Congress, too!" ("Yippee! That means Obama didn't do anything wrong!") when the facts are that the type of bills and the way Obama's done this are even VERY much scaring a liberal academician/lawyer like Jonathan Turley. Yet people aren't hearing much of the TUrley testimony, sadly.
How about when the leftwing media had a blast with BUSH SAID THE WAR WAS OVER FROM THAT SHIP! (we still hear that, and it's still questionable that he meant the BATTLE, which was true) when Obama declared Al Qaeda was virtually dead and the media didn't give a damn. IGNORE IT, MAYBE THE AMERICAN VOTER DIDN"T HEAR IT..THEY CERTAINLY COULDN'T HEAR IT FROM US, THE LEFTWING NETWORKS...
you know I'm right.
The IRS scandal is covered for such a short time in the mainstream media that most people don't even remember it anymore. Imagine that? IMAGINE an IRS doing what this one did and is also part of ObamCare? etc..??
These things MUST be criticized, discussed, pulled apart. We need REAL CHANGE NOW..
Who realized that Obama's HOPE AND CHANGE, within a very short time, would mean for many Americans "the HOPE that we can CHANGE back the true damage Obama's done"?
LASUNSETT: welcome, my friend. VERY good to see your comment. I hope you start writing again, you're missed and I see your last post was in 2011. COMEBACK!
And you're right...I cringed when Obama insulted Putin just at the onset of the Olympics.. Obama's such a true child. And our lives are in his!!!
CI, if you don't mind my saying, I'm getting REAL weary of you seemingly thinking here at GeeeeZ that you're the only fair thinker. You are NOT, sir. What I frequently see is that your little sensor gets riled at the slightest show of ideology and, trust me, THIS IS A CONSERVATIVE BLOG....it's WHY we're here...discussing things we find important. Please read my remarks to Miller; they apply to you as well.
BY THE WAY:
It's interesting that the leftwing commenters very rarely actually respond to any of the comments here, or even truly respond the exact point of the posts, but EXPECT answers and responses to theirs.
I think they'd learn an awful lot if they read some of the comments....actually, the better, more reasoned conservative commenters here are usually ignored. That shows a LOT,doesn't it. "Can't argue with HER/HIM,simply don't know HOW (maybe he's RIGHT!! YIKES?) better move on to some angry, "hyperbolic" commenter and get a good fight going.
Sad.
"What I frequently see is that your little sensor gets riled at the slightest show of ideology...."
Spare me the martyrdom. You can't seem to accept that criticism was rampant with this post, without the slightest idea of what people were even criticizing. Conservatives have intellectual honesty, which is why I'm a Conservative.
If all you want is bumper stickers and catch phrases, you aspire to be no better than the left.
From Z:
"Criticism was rampant with this post?" WHAT? that IS the post...that is what we DO. Man, how many MORE comments can I explain what you're not getting, CI?
I don't have a problem with criticism, YOU do. I don't find it unnecessary, demeaning of my blog or commenters, ...zip.
I'm done.
Ducky: "Obama sucks?" So it's true you don't read Mustang's posts, huh? Are you implying that's as articulate as he gets?
I don't know what it is, but nearly every day you're here, you prove you don't read the posts; but you sure do comment on them.
odd
By the way, did you even read the comments? Mine about Palin and seeing Russia from Alaska? Do libs even have the ability to be ashamed of themselves for not really checking things out before CRITICIZING?
Always On Watch...great input.
""Criticism was rampant with this post?" WHAT? that IS the post...that is what we DO."
Interesting that you didn't quote the relevant part of my sentence.......
From Z:
Gee, CI, you have me there. Just not sure what you found so relevant that I'm supposed to hone in on that and you're to completely ignore my comments.
have a good evening.
"have a good evening."
You too.
Kid said...
What about that obama line in the sand in Syria?
What about obama's line in the Afghanistan sand?
....
Syria gave up their chems.
Afghanistan; wtf are you talking about?
lib, Did they now? You know that for a fact?
A-stan? Google it.
Hey lib, just for fun, clue us in would ya?
How far into this are you?
Do you think the government give a * about you?
Do you think they spend any time trying to do things beneficial to the individual?
Do you see your life being better or worse 10 years from now?
Someone said "So, what should obama do? you can't criticize without offering a solution"
Simple. obama should resign. 6 years and a foreign policy that looks like a raccoon trying to play chess, 58% unemployment, debt spiraling into oblivion, and now stupid enough to stick his hand in a monkey hole for at least the 3rd time over this ukraine nonsense.
Google monkey hole if you don't know what it is.
6 years and nothing is better. Nothing. Resign! But only if you give the position to someone from another party, because every possible democrat party replacement would add nothing positive. OK, Biden would be funny at least.
@ Kid
Libby has no idea what you are talking about. Please to recall, he is a child of the Kenyan.
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