Thursday, September 23, 2010

Help us with this...........a question that we must find an answer to.........

Nobody can deny that American politics are very, very polarized ...Left and Right seem to be grabbing for some 'win' which is making all of us big losers because the WIN is becoming more important than THE COUNTRY.    Some say this is like the Civil War and it'll take civil war to get us through it..............but that was North/ South............now it's Left/Right...........Here is the question we should all be asking, and I know most of you have thought about it:

What will it take to solve this enormous and very angry divide?  

I would LOVE to give my two bits on this here and now but want to give you a chance.  Please give this some thought and tell us all what you think we can do to help our country survive. 

66 comments:

FrogBurger said...

Good question. I don't think the country will survive if we compromise with the Statists. I know I won't.

Linda said...

I certainly hope our country will survive. I hope everyone will come to their senses, and see what is right for us.

I think the number one thing we need to do is come back, as a nation, to the Lord. I know there will be many who think we don't need a Divine influence, but we do.

Major said...

It might already be too late. I think we'll know better by 11/02/10?

When we see avowed leftist, radicals and actual commie promoting anarchists in the WH....it's time for a revolt.

When it was the north and south...the country was separated by latitude. It's just that the same line of differences has moved 90 degrees vertically.

Major

Z said...

Good comments, thanks. FB, "I know I won't" made me laugh out loud but I know it's not funny, it's just the way you put it and, knowing you like I do (up close and personal!) I can imagine you saying that!

Linda...that might be the only answer and, if that's the case, we're doomed; I don't see it happening ALTHOUGH there are a LOT of good people who are starting to seek God...perhaps these problems are just for that very reason, if I may be so bold to speak for Him!?
I have a CHristian therapist buddy who said she's never had so many calls for help and she's never seen such hardship of every kind in people as she has the last year.

Major; I hope you're wrong and yes, we let people vote in a man who blatantly lied about himself AND mistreated good Americans during his campaign; what were people thinking?
But, you see, AMericans are hopeful as a people and the Left (media, etc) had done such a hatchet job on BUSH BUSH BUSH that I believe a lot of even good people got into that booth and thought "Well, Obama seems weird but he can't be worse than Bush...." And voila. the AMAZING team of bloggers we're blessed to know here tried to warn but, alas.....Now, we have to hope they have awakened and are thinking "Man, Bush was no angel, but this guy Obama's creepy in every way......I'm voting "ANYBODY BUT A DEMOCRAT" this time around"

FrogBurger said...

If you give to the Statists they'll end up taking everything. Ask the French. We gave to the Statist during the French revolution and the LaFayette school o f thought lost. You can see the results now.

Speedy G said...

Simple. Get rid of the federal government and stop expecting them to solve our problems.

You want something done libbies? PAY FOR IT YOURSELF!!!

Speedy G said...

You want to do some "good"?

PAY FOR IT YOURSELF!

Donate your time and YOUR money (not mine) to ALL your favorite causes.

The reason were so "polarized" as a nation is because you keep reaching into MY pocket to pay for YOUR STUPID IDEAS!

Here's a novel idea for you. If the issues are too "politicized" for you, take your issues OUT of the political arena! PAY FOR THEM YOURSELF!

Speedy G said...

Madison, "Memorial and Remonstrance"

#3 - Because it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of Citizens, and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The free men of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entagled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much soon to forget it. Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?

Speedy G said...

I no longer wish to donate to the "Church of the Ever Green Environment". I no longer wish to "tithe" to the "Church of No Carbon Emitting Cookstoves for African natives".

I no longer wish to belong to the "Church of Liberal Do-Gooders." I'm SICK OF IT!

Ducky's here said...

I'd point out that Froggy makes any compromise difficult, if not impossible.

Fortunately the fringe right isn't early the voice it thinks it is. Those that think Obama is a communist need to take a deep breath.

Those that think Obama is a leftist need to look at the recent canning of Larry Summers and the response, "No more Rubinsts". No if you folks think Rubin and his crew were far left radicals then you have pretty much resigned to be spectators.

Sarah Palin? The guy in Alaska who Murkowski is going to devour? Christine O'Donnell? That's your best game?

Meanwhile until we can come together as a people with a set of goals, we are finished.

I'd start out as with a set of goals for an economic system.

1: Sustainability

2: Reasonable distribution of wealth because I do believe when the disparity becomes as large as it's becoming in America it weakens us badly.


Now I really don't give two warm farts in hell which system accomplishes these goals. If I thought laissez-faire had even a prayer I'd film an Homage to Ayn.

Meanwhile, we are a bunch of puppets being controlled by shysters and pop culture and deserve what we are getting.

Speedy G said...

I no longer wish to pay for subsidizing the GAY LIFESTYLE. Confine them ALL to the old leper colony on Molakai!

Speedy G said...

...and let the duck provide for their support!

Z said...

Ducky "Meanwhile, we are a bunch of puppets being controlled by shysters and pop culture and deserve what we are getting." That goes without saying.

As for 'the best we've got'...oh, no...we've got Ryan, Cantor, McCarthy, West, etc etc......no, those women are not the best we've got by a long shot. But, those women sure do scare the libs around election time :-)

As for Obama and Summers and Rubin; Sorry...for AMerica, they ARE far left.
Odd that your brand of FAR LEFT hasn't worked ANYWHERE in the world, isn't it? Yet, you guys keep trying because "you're going to do it BETTER!" :-) That 'reasonable distribution of wealth" is an interesting phrase coming from you; I don't believe you'd used 'reasonable' before. GOod on you. 'cept it don't work, of course.
Who's 'fringe right'?

Speedy..."pay for them yourself" Give us some examples; I like how that sounds! :-)
Please translate the Madison; you're up to your old shenanigans again :-)

Speedy G said...

Separation of Church and State. The Church of Environmentalism must find a new Pope who is NOT the President of the USA and who can't brainwash our kids.

Speedy G said...

Please translate the Madison; you're up to your old shenanigans again

Madison's Memorial and Remonstrance was his most decisive and important explanation of his views about religious freedom. Aimed directly at the collecting of taxes for the purposes of underwriting teachers of "Christian education," Madison was against even one cent being collected for such purposes.

If we shouldn't use tax dollars to pay for "Christian Educators" WHY should we use them to pay for "Environmental Educators"???

FrogBurger said...

I'd point out that Froggy makes any compromise difficult, if not impossible.

What's the point of compromising with dictators like you Ducky?

Just tell me. What do you bring to the table? Solutions that messed up Europe and created the Soviets.

There's no compromise with people like you in my books. Not when you admire the works of Mao or Staline that have killed over 40 million people.

So don't lecture or guilt trip me. I am not ashamed of really disliking people of your philosophy.

FrogBurger said...

Reasonable distribution of wealth because I do believe when the disparity becomes as large as it's becoming in America it weakens us badly.

How about you shove it up your derriere?

Where have you been? Look at Europe. Are they strong? How is the French military? Do you think it can defend itself against an invasion?

Prosperity = defense.

Why do you think the Soviets failed? They ran out of cash.

God you're a moron.

Bloviating Zeppelin said...

The next month is the hinge: people are predicting either a landslide for the GOP or a massive support of the current Congress.

It's not just Leftists who are at odds with logic; many times its the very Republicans we currently have installed in place.

It's time for actual Conservatives, instead of party Republican hacks who have sold out their platform.

The Republicans are just as unhappy with what's happening as are the Demorats. I don't give to the RNCC any more; I specifically TARGET my donations DIRECTLY to the candidates I support. Let me make my stance known: I recently sent $1K to Marco Rubio, $1K to Sharron Angle and $1K to Carly Fiorina. I'm about to send $1K to LtCol Allen West.

BZ

FrogBurger said...

I see Ducky and I really wonder why we need to compromise with people who match the definition of insanity: repeating the same mistakes over and over of what's failed everywhere in the world.

Speedy G said...

."pay for them yourself" Give us some examples;

Marvin Olasky, "The Tragedy of American Compassion"

Many in the poverty trade today would like us to believe that the difficulties and temptations people face now are somehow unique, more complicated and intractable than any in the past. But 17th, 18th, and 19th century America had it all: alcoholism, drug addiction, illegitimacy, crime, unemployment, abuse, social upheaval, grinding poverty. The crucial difference: those engaged in charity had a frank, clear-headed, unsentimental view of human nature - and they believed the problems were moral and spiritual ones, requiring moral and spiritual solutions.

Throughout our history, private, predominantly religious charities proliferated: ...literally hundreds of such groups that sprang up across the country ... The crucial understanding was simple yet profound: people were helped because other people took a personal interest in them.

And for decades, there was a consensus among those engaged in the work of these organizations, and among society at large: that some poor (destitute through no fault of their own) were deserving of help and others were not; that much poverty resulted when human beings, of their own free will, chose destructive paths (alcohol and vice); that such erring individuals should and could, with God's help, change course; that all able to work, must; that those who helped must give of their time, must give of their love, must give religious counsel and encouragement and admonition; that money alone, given indiscriminately, was poisonously destructive.


You need to fix a MORAL problem. Go to CHURCH! When the government steps in to fix moral problems... IT BECOMES A CHURCH!

The government needs to get back to it's founding charter, the US Constitution.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Form
Establish
Insure
Provide
Promote
Secure

PROMOTE the "general welfare" NOT "PROVIDE" it!

Speedy G said...

More Madison Memorial and Remonstrance

2. Because if Religion be exempt from the authority of the Society at large, still less can it be subject to that of the Legislative Body. The latter are but the creatures and vicegerents of the former. Their jurisdiction is both derivative and limited: it is limited with regard to the co-ordinate departments, more necessarily is it limited with regard to the constituents. The preservation of a free Government requires not merely, that the metes and bounds which separate each department of power be invariably maintained; but more especially that neither of them be suffered to overleap the great Barrier which defends the rights of the people. The Rulers who are guilty of such an encroachment, exceed the commission from which they derive their authority, and are Tyrants. The People who submit to it are governed by laws made neither by themselves nor by an authority derived from them, and are slaves.

Speedy G said...

The "Church of Big Government Liberalism" needs to be SHUT DOWN!

sue said...

Z - between parties:

cooperation, give and take and civility

concentration on what America really is, and who are really Americans

stop unnecessary wars and concentrate on education and infrastructure

look around and build on our country's weaknessess

less emphasis on space travel

Z said...

Speedy, it sure does need to be shut down!

SUe, thanks... I'll respond in CAPS:
Z - between parties:

cooperation, give and take and civility

QUESTION: DO YOU FEEL OBAMA INCLUDED THE REPUBLICANS AND THE REPS WERE ONLY WHINING THAT THEY WEREN'T BEING LISTENED TO, AND DO YOU THINK LOCKING THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE PROMOTES ANYTHING GOOD? I THINK THAT WENT A LONG WAY TO THE INCIVILITY IN GOV'T WE HAVE NOW.

concentration on what America really is, and who are really Americans

BEAUTIFULLY SAID BUT HERE WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO'S PROMOTING BUYING COMPANIES AND BANKS AND TELLING PEOPLE WHAT THEY CAN PAY THEIR EXECS AND TELLING US WHAT TO EAT. I THINK 'WHO ARE REALLY AMERICANS' IS PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND AND WANT TO LIVE BY THE CONSTITUTION...WHICH IS SHREDDED NOW IN ONLY 20 MONTHS.

stop unnecessary wars and concentrate on education and infrastructure

I AGREE ON UNNECESSARY WARS...WHO'D WANT ONE? EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT IF WE COULD ONLY STOP DUMPING MONEY INTO IT AND REMINDING PARENTS HOW IMPORTANT THEIR ENCOURAGEMENT OF THEIR KIDS IS AND THEIR INVOLVEMENT..
INFRASTRUCTURE; DO YOU KNOW THAT AS MUCH AS I HATED THE VERY UN-AMERICAN CONCEPT OF A 'STIMULUS PACKAGE', I SECRETLY HOPED THEY'D DO WHAT OBAMA'D PROMISED AND WE'D USE THOSE 'SHOVEL READY PROJECTS' TO EMPLOY PEOPLE, BUY AMERICAN CONCRETE, STEEL AND GLASS AND ACTUALLY FIX OUR INFRASTRUCTURE? ALL WE GET IS THE ODD SIGN ON A FREEWAY TELLING US SOME SMALL BRIDGE IS BEING FIXED. WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THOSE PROMISES?

look around and build on our country's weaknessess

I THINK WE SHOULD BUILD ON OUR STRENGTHS..IF WE COULD FIND ANY THAT ARE LEFT

less emphasis on space travel

AND WAIT TILL CHINA OR RUSSIA OR IRAN OVERPOWER US? WHILE I AGREE WITH THE CONCEPT, I THINK THE VERY IDEA OF WHAT OBAMA'S STARTED TO DO SORT OF TOOK THE WIND OUT OF AMERICANS WHO'VE BEEN SO PROUD OF OUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN SPACE.

Please fire away, Sue, not a dare, not a fight; I think this is an excellent discussion and I hope to hear your thoughts on what I wrote because I thought your list was very well thought out..xx

sue said...

'look around and build on our country's weaknesses'

You got me on that one, Z. Of course we should build on our strengths. What I meant to say was that we should find out what our weaknesses are and then build from there.

Being proud of our accomplishments in space is all well and good. We have an astronaut from our town that we are very proud of. But we are screwing up this world - should we dump it and find another one to ruin?

Unnecessary wars? I live with someone who wants me to think he was in one that we won - which we didn't. 53,000 fallen troops later (or was it 58)

Education is important - period. But so are parents and I think these days they are dropping the ball.

Whether or not something is presently being done, infrastructure is still high on the list.

I think we had this discussion before - about what America is now compared to what it used to be, and what is realistic. And we need a good look around to see who are American citizens, and who we WANT to be citizens.

As far as cooperation, give and take, and civility goes - I'm talking about everyone, not one group in particular.

beamish said...

What will it take to solve this enormous and very angry divide?

You have to recall that the Founding Fathers paved the way to the Civil War and its subsequent total abolition of slavery.

The way the Constitution was written (Article I, Section 9), no law could be considered to totally ban the importation of slaves into the United States until the year 1808. But, as Daniel Webster famously said, "the power to tax is the power to destroy." The Constitution imposed a tax of ten dollars for every slave imported into America. Ten dollars in 1787, depending on what inflation calculation formula you use, is equivalent to between $9,740 (nominal GDP per capita) and $762,000 (relative share of GDP) in 2010 dollars. Clearly the Founders intended to destroy the slave trade before it was banned altogether on January 1, 1808.

This is likely one reason why the partisans opposed to the ratification of the Constitution, the anti-Federalists, went on to form the Democratic Party. The Constitution explicitly made it financially unviable to want to be a slave importer before it banned the business entirely.

In addition to making the importation of new slaves astronomically expensive, then 20 years later completely illegal, the Constitution also closed slave-holding states out of undue political power. For the purposes of apportioning political representation in Congress, only three-fifths of the slave population could be counted in a state's population figures for considering the distribution of taxes and the number of Congressmen a state could send to the House of Representatives.

So, we see the Founding Fathers wanted to make slave importation expensive, then illegal, and diminished a state's ability to pad its numbers in Congress to "represent" people who weren't free.

Enter Abraham Lincoln, who rightly understood the Founder's intent and carried onward to the next logical step. Slaves could not be imported into federal lands and territories from a state. (See Lincoln's speech at Cooper Union, February 27, 1860)

Of course, Lincoln as the CONSERVATIVE founder of the Republican Party had to contend with the liberal "living document" Constitution manglers of his time, the Democrats, and stood up against their militancy where prior leaders compromised the Constitution (the Missouri Compromise of 1850, for example)

Which is why when Lincoln was elected President, the anti-Constitutional Democratic Party, 25 years fresh from illegally violating a Supreme Court order upholding the sovereignty of the Cherokee Nation, formed an unconstitutional confederation of states and began firing on US military installations beginning with Fort Sumter in South Carolina. The Democratic Party's institutional contempt for the Constitution of the United States erupted in civil war.

Now back to the question. How do we solve the "left-right divide?"

Simple. Complete the work of President Grant, under the auspices of the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871, which stamped out the Democratic Party's terrorist wing until the progressive leftist Woodrow Wilson revived it in 1915.

Rule the Democratic Party a terrorist organization.

"...against all enemies, foreign OR domestic..."

sue said...

'Rule the Democratic Party a terrorist organization.'

Well, there's what it will take to solve this enormous and angry divide.

Or shall we just put beamish in charge?

Z said...

SUE..I'LL STAY IN CAPITAL LETTERS AGAIN;

YOU SAID : 'look around and build on our country's weaknesses'

You got me on that one, Z. Of course we should build on our strengths. What I meant to say was that we should find out what our weaknesses are and then build from there.

I'M SORRY...OF COURSE I KNEW WHAT YOU MEANT..AND, THESE DAYS, YOU'RE PROBABLY RIGHT..BECAUSE WEAKNESSES SEEM TO BE ALL WE HAVE THESE DAYS, SADLY

Being proud of our accomplishments in space is all well and good. We have an astronaut from our town that we are very proud of. But we are screwing up this world - should we dump it and find another one to ruin?

I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO INHABIT ANOTHER PLANET; I DO, HOWEVER, THINK IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE CHINA OR RUSSIA GAINING IN THAT ARENA......WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY COULD DO THEN?

Unnecessary wars? I live with someone who wants me to think he was in one that we won - which we didn't. 53,000 fallen troops later (or was it 58)

WELL, I WOULDN'T CALL VIETNAM A WIN, EITHER, BUT I CAN'T RULE A WAR LOST BECAUSE OF LOST SOLDIERS....WE LOST A HELL OF A LOT OF SOLDIERS IN THE CIVIL WAR AND WWII, ALSO.......
WE MIGHT HAVE WON VIETNAM HAD WALTER CRONKITE PULLED A HARRY "WE CAN'T WIN THIS WAR" REID ON US...ALTHOUGH I DON'T REALLY KNOW ENOUGH TO SPECULATE ON THAT ONE.


Education is important - period. But so are parents and I think these days they are dropping the ball.

AMEN TO THAT. AND , OF COURSE, WITHOUT GOOD EDUCATION, OUR FUTURE'S LOST.

Whether or not something is presently being done, infrastructure is still high on the list.

BUT, WHY HASN'T IT BEEN STARTED? WHERE IS THE STIMULUS MONEY, BECAUSE THE HUGE MAJORITY OF IT HAS NOT BEEN SPENT...THAT'S A MYSTERY AN HONEST AND AMERICA-LOVING MEDIA WOULD BE ASKING BY NOW, WOULDN'T YOU THINK?

I think we had this discussion before - about what America is now compared to what it used to be, and what is realistic. And we need a good look around to see who are American citizens, and who we WANT to be citizens.

HARD TO TELL THESE DAYS, ISN'T IT, SUE. IT USED TO BE EVERYONE COULDN'T WAIT TO GET HERE FOR THE OPPORTUNITY; TODAY, MOST CAN'T WAIT TO GET HERE SO THEY CAN ROB US BLIND.
ODD, BUT I JUST HEARD OF FRIENDS WHO'RE TRYING TO BRING IN A CHILD FROM THE PHILIPPINES AND HIS AUNT AND UNCLE; THE AUNT AND UNCLE ARE HIGHLY TRAINED AND EDUCATED AND OUR COUNTRY'S GIVING THEM A HELL OF A TIME IMMIGRATING, BUT DO WE CLOSE OUR BORDERS AGAINST A PEOPLE WHO COME HERE MOSTLY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OUR LEFTWINGERS WHO ACTUALLY THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO REWARD ILLEGALITY?

As far as cooperation, give and take, and civility goes - I'm talking about everyone, not one group in particular.

SURE, BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN HAVE CIVILITY UNTIL BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE ARE RESPECTED BY THE OTHER..AND THE LAST 20 MONTHS HAVE BEEN INTOLERABLE FOR THE REPUBLICANS, YOU KNOW THAT. I DON'T KNOW HOW CONSERVATIVES GET ANY VOTES AT ALL WITH THE MEDIA WORKING AGAINST US SO HARD; YOU'VE SEEN MANY OF MY MEDIA-BIAS STORIES AND THEY'RE IRREFUTABLE. IMAGINE IF A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT DID 1/8 OF WHAT OBAMA'S PULLED? WE WON'T GET CIVILITY, WE CAN'T ANYMORE......I HATE TO SAY THIS BUT EVERYONE HAS TO GET SO NASTY TO GET HEARD, AND THE MEDIA LOVES TO PRINT ALL THE NASTINESS, AND I DON'T SEE THAT ENDING...
THANKS FOR THE CONVERSATION.

Beamish...the Dems do seem like terrorists when you consider how they've snuck in appointees without hearings (wait till a blog I'm publishing soon about this subject), bought companies!, are telling us what to eat, are leaving our borders open (not to say BUsh did much better at that, by the way), hire communists to work in the WH, etc etc etc...they are certainly enemies from within in my book.

sue said...

Z - I wasn't referring to the number of lost troops as the reason we lost in Vietnam. We lost
because we lost. I've never heard of winning a war with people frantically trying to grab on to the helicopers taking off of the Embassy roof - with the enemy fast approaching.

No, I suppose it would not be good to lose the space race to countries like that.

sue said...

Z - I sense that you may be disappointed in my answers, but surely you do not expect me to go against what I am. I do not deny that what you say about Obama and the media may be true, but I am not a Republican/Conservative. I do like to take part in your discussions when I can - and feel that I've been honest.

Z said...

Sue, you have your reasons for feeling as you do and I have mine. You never disappoint me with any comments! I appreciate your honesty and think about your comments and 'try them on for size' against my thinking, and I think that's a good thing for us both...it stretches us, don't you think?
Vietnam was a nightmare...I think that's when the really great divide started happening in this country.

beamish said...

Or shall we just put beamish in charge?

I don't want to be President, but I'll do it if I have to. Legally, if you all write me in, I have to do it.

I got one vote in Florida in 2008.

;)

Z said...

Beamish, you've got MY vote.

Major said...

Beamish....BRILLIANT!

Once you look back at the track record and platforms, behavior of the demorats....you have to come to the realization that they are indeed...terrorists.

From the formation of the Klan....to the murtha's, reids and the late bloated zeppelin ted kennedy. From dodd to barney frank...to jackson and sharpton. From Reid to pelosi...to kerry and now the walking zombie of a fool...jimmah carter.

Anywhere you look and see a country that uses "democrat(ic)" as in peoples democratic this or that...you'll find evil, terrorism and a country devoid of freedom.

THEY HAVE BEEN AND ARE THE DIVIDE...in the country today...and for over 100 years.

Major

Major said...

Man o man......How could I have omitted the One? The terrorist in chief. The teeny weeny of a man without principles, conscience or a devotion to American interests, prosperity or our safety.

Major

FairWitness said...

How about we all agree to return to conducting ourselves as a nation of laws? Let's hold all law-breakers, especially Congressmen, Senators, Presidents and government bureaucrats, accountable for their violations of Constitutional laws? If we would prosecute all the lawbreakers and tax cheats in Washington DC and throw their butts in prison, that would go a long way to uniting this nation. Then we could start with the state and local government officials, prosecute them next and throw their crooked butts in prison. Then we could move on to the private citizens who break the law, prosecute them and throw their butts in prison.

Major said...

"If we would prosecute all the lawbreakers and tax cheats in Washington DC and throw their butts in prison"


That could only be possible through a Military coup...or civil war.

Major

Joe said...

sue: The sentiment sounds good. Let's give it a little substance.

Provide us with a list of the things you(and liberals in general) are willing to give to conservatives and a another list of the things you want to take from them.

Major said...

Personally.....I'd be satisfied with a new United States of America, consisting of the 40 states that recognize the 2nd amendment and are "Shall Issue" states.

Those that deny their citizens constitutional protections...the NE, Illinois, Wisconsin....can ask / join the islamists for protection.

Major

Major said...

VDH:


"Hanson writes: "The Democratic Party reminds me of the Republicans circa 1965 or so – impotent, shrill, no ideas, conspiratorial, reactive, out-of-touch with most Americans, isolationist, and full of embarrassing spokesmen."


Nuff said...


Major

soapster said...

Finding God or turning to the Lord ain't gonna pull us out of this malaise. I'm not begrudging anyone for doing so but we've been banking on faith for the past how many years and this is where it has gotten us.

Full "faith" and credit of the United States Government...need I say more?

What we need at once is a little objectivity and a whole heaping cup of reason and logic.

Reason and logic, had we been invoking it, would have told us long long ago that what was being proposed wasn't sustainable. Reasona and logic would have told us that deficit spending probably wasn't a sound fiscal policy. You can go right down the list.

Throwing one's hands up and banking on faith that an ushering in of a Republican majority with a pledge to America is gonna fix all this is preposterous.

What you can do right now is to start working with friends and family etc. that share your values and morals. Start saving your copper pennies, buy silver/gold, get a gun and learn how to shoot it, start home schooling your kids or helping a neighbor homeschool theirs, start canning food, learn how to start a fire without a lighter or matches, learn to grow your own food, learn about mesh networking and other ways to communicate should something major happen and you've not cell phone etc., buy a ham radio or transceiver......the list goes on.....

Greywolfe said...
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Greywolfe said...
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Greywolfe said...

Hello Z, and all of my other friends here. If I may, I'd like to put my two cents worth in. I may have stopped my blogging, but I do look in on my friends.

With your permission, Z.

We've reached critical mass in this nation. With a powerful minority on one side that wants a complete dissolution of our national heritage and a restructuring of our history and national identity to allow a furthering of socialist ideals. On the other side a powerful minority (and growing) that believes in the absolute sovereignty of our Constitutional free market system and a desire to return our nation to it's heritage of Godly and educated rule of law.

The other group that inhabits this nation are the sheep in the middle. Those over-hyped "undecided voters" that blow this way and that depending on political winds. Referred to by some as "sheeple".

As shown by our founders, the minority can change the direction of a nation. The Rebels against the crown numbered only about 20% of the population. But they won freedom for the nation and ALL its citizens.

The problem is a simple one, as with the misnamed civil war, the two powerful interests are diametrically opposed in view and scope. There is no place that a consensus CAN be found. So, the only way for the two sides to be brought together is for one side to be defeated. Utterly. Crushingly.

Unfortunately, we've seen that this is not going to be happening in the political arena. For those that think that it will, I will point out a couple of historical facts. First, several times in the past the "conservatives" have taken power only to lose it again to a resurgance from the left. Or were betrayed by their own. (see historical records of the last Republican Congress) And secondly, I will point out that the leftists, like the Muslims, when beaten, merely pull back and regroup. They both have shown extreme patience when needed to bide their time for a re-emergence.

There really is only two ways this is going to end. Either we capitulate to the leftists and let them have their way in the end, or we keep fighting them until the critical mass ignites. I am afraid that we've reached a point where only one or the other is possible.

I believe it was Jefferson that said that from time to time the tree of liberty must be renewed by the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Its branches are dying, its fruit is poisoned. If it is not renewed then true liberty is a dead tree that will be cut down and burned.

Major said...




"The real conservatives will have a lot of cleaning up to do and they better be up to the task because “we the people” are fired up and mad as hell.

The ‘constituency’ is going to start taking charge of the assholes who think they can call the shots and take bribes and back-room negotiations without consequences.

You know what?

I’m angry and so are many of my fellow patriots.

0bama brought change alright! He opened our eyes to the Leftist SCUM.

We are AWAKE.

The bear has been POKED.

We bite BACK.

Semper Fidelis

God and Country forever."

sue said...

Joe - Check back later on that. I'm working on it.

sue said...

Joe - 'a list of things you are willing to give to Conservatives
and a list of things you want to take from them.'

This list will not have anything to do with Liberals in general - just me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I will give you the 2012 Presidency (provided it is not Sarah Palin.)


In return:

You can keep your guns, with the exception of a stockpile of assault weapons and machine guns that shooters could get a hold of.

Stop using abortion as a political issue. It is a serious moral issue that should be dealt with by the mother and FATHER and adoption -and God.

Let homosexuals get married. Everyone will be happier - and really what's the big deal.

Stop bringing Christianity into government. This is a country of all religions and even no religion.

See America as a country that embraces all colors, races, creeds and whatever. It will never again be the country of the 50's. And that's ok.

Let them build their mosque near Ground Zero. Aren't there more important things to worry about.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Joe - even if you don't agree to my list, I still give you the 2012 presidency. What can it hurt?

soapster said...

"You can keep your guns, with the exception of a stockpile of assault weapons and machine guns that shooters could get a hold of."

WTF is that? There is no crime in owning what you deem to be "too" many firearms just as there is no crime in someone owning too much spare gasoline for their yard machines.

If someone breaks into said resident's home and steals their firearms and goes out and kills a bunch of people then you've got a crime and as well you have a suspect.

It's about high time we get off this minority report BS of criminalization where there ceases to exist a victim.

Dave Miller said...

I took a couple of days to think about this topic.

Perhaps where we are is a result of so few of us really understanding and appreciating where the other is.

WHen you are unable to even imagine the shoes of the other, let alone walk in them, it is hard to be compassionate and understanding of that persons views.

Maybe what we need is a gigantic national exchange program.

I live your reality for awhile, you live mine.

I have found in my travels and life that when people get to really know each other, and their circumstances, the political divide seems to melt away and folks focus on the tough stuff like getting along, serving each other, moving ahead together.

Since our country, whether we personally are or not, identifies as majority Christian, imagine if everyone in that group, [more than 80%] made a decision to live life as Paul admonished in his writings...

...living out our relationships humbly with each other, serving them, and considering others better than ourselves.

If we dedicated ourselves to that, we'd probably heal this mess pretty quick.

All it would take would be for those of us [remember the 80%] who already claim CHrist in our lives to live those specific ideals.

Just my opinion...

And yes, I am a liberal idealist...

Z said...

David, I could HUG you for this comment:
"Since our country, whether we personally are or not, identifies as majority Christian, imagine if everyone in that group, [more than 80%] made a decision to live life as Paul admonished in his writings...
...living out our relationships humbly with each other, serving them, and considering others better than ourselves."

THAT, (you won't like this, but it's true), is what Glenn Beck was ALL about at this rally recently..that's all. That's it in a nutshell. I absolutely agree with you...it's sort of my point when I had a blog 2 months or so ago about how capitalism can't work without Faith....people have to not want to take advantage of people for capitalism to continue; we've come so far from that mindset I have a fear about our future.
Just look at people crossing street these days! It's a tiny metaphor for NOT CARING..they don't even look at a stop sign to make sure you're going to stop! They just step off the curb, ipod in the ear, hearing nothing, seeing nothing and YOU are the responsible one, NOT THEM...
we need responsibility, we need people who care about others...to live like Paul, you're so right.
By the way, I'm glad you said Paul and not JESUS...you know those "what would Jesus do?" bracelets? "WWJD?" I always think it would be better substituting PAUL for Jesus, who the HECK could do what JESUS would do? NOne among us!


SOAPSTER, PLEASE see the words above, and the rest of D Miller's comments...this exactly the answer I'd like to have given you re how Christian faith can help this country...there it is; nobody means hanging pictures of Jesus all over the place, TRUST me.

Z said...

Greywolfe, so good to see you, thanks for your comment..I hate to admit it, but I fear you could be absolutely right.......
but, I think terrorism will get us first. Or Islam, one way or the other..either terror or Sharia..

this whole thing, I believe, revolves around THE CONSTITUTION.

WHen you have a pres who feels it's something to be put up with and adhered to only when it suits him, you've got problems...I swear, I could weep having just typed that.
come back soon, Greywolfe..

FrogBurger said...

Dave, I don't think it's the lack of compassion that's the problem.

I've seen more compassion, charity work and community service in the US than in France, a "liberal" and socialist country.

This whole compassion thing is a total myth entertained by the left to guilt trip conservatives and get votes.

I am not interested in feeling compassion for a lefty elitists who wants to restrict my liberty. But I have no problem feeling compassion for a kid that lives in a bad environment, like I did for 3 years with Big Brother Big Sisters.

Once the left will stop depicting us as the bad, mean, white, rich people, then maybe we'll start compromising. I've heard all of those invalid criticisms on both sides of the ocean and am utterly sick and tired of it.

The compassion you want and transform into policies makes economies weaker and individuals less compassionate. When the State takes over the business of compassion, people delegate and stop giving a damn. Especially once the economy has tanked.

If I didn't have a brain, I'd be liberal dreamer like I was in college but numbers, life experience have taught me I was deluded back then.

sue said...

'What will it take to solve this enormous and very angry divide'

I knew this would happen. Our political beliefs run so deep that we simply cannot accept the other person's ideas.

There is no solution until we are willing to meet halfway - and not expect the other person to agree with us.

sue said...

Z - In your post of September 15 you asked me to let you know how Bill Maher was doing this season.

He is alive and well - better than ever.

Your friend Andrew Breitbart was on the panel.

sue said...

Z - You are the one who wants to narrow the divide between left and right and make our country better.

Yet when I said the 'shocking' things above, you showed that you couldn't deal with someone who thinks so differently than you.

In order to get along with the opposite side, you have to listen objectively. That doesn't mean you accept what they say. But listening to what the other person says is the beginning of getting along.

That didn't happen here.

beamish said...
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beamish said...

My platform is simple. Raise taxes on people that vote for Democrats to pay for tax cuts for people that vote for Republicans.

Give the people what they want.

defiant_infidel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
defiant_infidel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
defiant_infidel said...

I've been watching this quietly and can no longer continue...

SUE said...

"Z - You are the one who wants to narrow the divide between left and right and make our country better."

Actually, I think most of us simply want to return the country to its former original greatness and strength... I could give a rat's butt how much "better" left and right "get along". I'm not afraid of conflict or differences. That in fact was once one of our countries' proud STRENGTHS! We were never made to feel compelled to apologize for speaking out. In leftspeak, "getting along" means no dissension. If we disagree, we're radicals and/or racists. What simplistic bunk.

"Yet when I said the 'shocking' things above, you showed that you couldn't deal with someone who thinks so differently than you."

She dealt with you politely and courteously... which obviously was undeserved. However, that is her nature and she renders it to all who visit here. She doesn't agree with you... read above.

[comment continued in next frame... it was too long, I guess..]

defiant_infidel said...

"In order to get along with the opposite side, you have to listen objectively. That doesn't mean you accept what they say. But listening to what the other person says is the beginning of getting along."

She certainly listened and told you she did try your ideas on for size... As per normal liberal fashion, you create your own "facts" and ignore what she actually said. You're rude.

"That didn't happen here."

You just didn't get the capitulation you plainly sought... so whine. Waaaaaaaah....

We get along just dandy... You reside in the most incredible REPUBLIC (NOT Democracy) in the WORLD, right along with those of us who remember history's lessons accurately and without your insipid adulteration. If we on the right were truly the intolerant lot you guys constantly paint us as, we would purge our soil of your obstructive, disruptive, infectious cancer on our liberty.

We don't, and you people continue to benefit and enjoy all of this countries' freedoms, while persistently trying to dismantle the rigid backbone that propagated them in the first place.

Z, dear, tolerant and kind lady... as you well know, I agree with Grey Wolfe. Sad days are on our horizon...

Take best care. ;)

Joe said...

sue: I will gladly take the presidency in 2012 as you offered. Thank you.

The guns thing is a constitutional thing and not up for grabs.

Abortion is more than a moral issue. While a woman SHOULD be able to do as she wishes with her own body, the body created in the heat of passion is not hers. Its DNA is different and it is connected with her through a life cord that keeps her body from rejecting it.

I don't give a rip about homosexuals, I just don't want to change the definition of marriage, else we'll need another word to define IT.

Christianity belongs anywhere and everywhere without restriction (as do other "religions")...it's guananteed in the constitution.

I give you the embracing of all colors, races, creeds, etc.

The Ground Zero mosque is inappropriate and I will oppose it till the day I die (stick around, it may not be all that long).

See, here's the problem. You think what you think and I think what I think and we must find a way to live in the same great republic even though we think differently about it.

The easiest way would be for you to just come over to my way of thinking.

Since that is unlikely (as is its antithesis) we must choose to do it through some dispassionate agreement, which we call the Constitution, and through laws.

So, now what do we do?

sue said...

'So, now what do we do?'

Joe - This disagreement by parties will go on. That will never change.

Some issuses will fade out and others will take their place.

Most importantly, we will endure -because of the Constitution, laws and our right to vote.

If you look back at the times when it seemed as if we couldn't survive - we did. And we will now.

Last night I saw that Obama's approval rating has dropped even lower. If that doesn't change, the presidency could easily change hands.

And it will go on...

(And you, Joe, stick around, we need you.)

Z said...

Sue, are you responding to me when you say
"Z - You are the one who wants to narrow the divide between left and right and make our country better.

Yet when I said the 'shocking' things above, you showed that you couldn't deal with someone who thinks so differently than you."

DOES THE COMMENT BELOW SUPPORT YOUR RESPONSE? HOW ARE MY REMARKS BELOW ANYTHING CLOSE TO WHAT YOU SUGGEST ABOVE? WHAT?

"Sue, you have your reasons for feeling as you do and I have mine. You never disappoint me with any comments! I appreciate your honesty and think about your comments and 'try them on for size' against my thinking, and I think that's a good thing for us both...it stretches us, don't you think"

MY GOSH, I'M TELLING YOU I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU SAY AND IT MAKES ME THINK AND YOU SAY THE ABOVE? WHY? IS IT YOU WHO 'EXPECTS THE OTHER PERSON TO AGREE'? I CERTAINLY DON'T EXPECT THAT OF YOU.

Z said...

FB: I AGREE WITH YOU. FUNNY, THE DEMOCRATS ARE STATISTICALLY RICHER YET WE GET THE BRUNT OF THE 'NASTY RICH REPUBLICANS'...AND YES, WE WANT TO BRING UP THOSE WHO HAVE LESS BY TEACHING AND ENCOURAGING, AND THEY WANT TO HAND THINGS TO PEOPLE.
I THINK IT'S A QUESTION OF 'SPIRIT ' AND 'SELF RELIANCE' AND WE'RE CONSIDERED THE UNCOMPASSIONATE ONES BECAUSE WE BELIEVE IN PEOPLE, THAT THEY DON'T NEED HAND OUTS..

I REALLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY HERE:
Once the left will stop depicting us as the bad, mean, white, rich people, then maybe we'll start compromising. I've heard all of those invalid criticisms on both sides of the ocean and am utterly sick and tired of it.

The compassion you want and transform into policies makes economies weaker and individuals less compassionate. When the State takes over the business of compassion, people delegate and stop giving a damn. Especially once the economy has tanked.

Z said...

DEFIANT INFIDEL,
thanks so much....I hadn't read all the comments before I posted to Sue. I simply can't understand how my words could be so misconstrued, but....
As you know, I appreciate you so much and am so glad you came by.