So, we've got lots of Tea Party candidates winning...HURRAH!! But, REALLY? Hurrah?These are people who probably can't win in November. I can't stand moderate Republicans but I'd rather have a moderate Republican than a Democrat. We had Republicans voting for Obama or not voting at all "just to teach the GOP a good lesson!" and then we lost everything....maybe even our country.
So, you start to wonder; As much as I support most everything the Tea Partiers support; and while I know with certainty they're not racists as the silly left suggested and got nowhere with their accusations, and I feel that the Tea Party people have great values and want this country to prosper and for their children to get ahead...while all of that's great, I'm starting to wonder what's happened...........AND, I'm wondering if the Republicans, the GOP, will back these people. In my opinion, they kind of HAVE to, but will they do it big enough to beat the Dems? Or, will they pull what so many Conservatives pulled in '08 and not support the Tea Party candidates "to teach the Tea Partiers a good lesson!"? And, is there a 'mad hatter' behind the scenes?
Most of the Tea Party winners who'll be competing in
November are backed by Palin who's really ONLY popular among SOME in the Tea Parties..... NOT the majority of the electorate by a long shot. I will say that if we our new candidates fill those tea cups with good, solid Reaganesque platform information and the media is fair and doesn't chip away at them all as it did at Palin, we COULD convince moderate Democrats and many Independents......BUT........while I'm ALL FOR the platforms and values of very conservative candidates and it's exciting to seem them beat the moderate RINOs, is this REALLY a good thing? CAN we win in November with Palin candidates? And have we handed the Democrats their OCTOBER SURPRISE that'll get THEM reelected?
Just wondering......... Give me your best shots, I can take it! Give me some optimism here!
z
135 comments:
The Republican Party is notorious for its keen agility in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Still, there's a lot of momentum left in the anti-Obama steamroller. Catagorizing Republicans as obstacles and obstructions to the Obama agenda is so much free advertising, really. Even James Carville sounds as non-enthusiastic as Emeril Lagasse trying to sell Cheez-Whiz on a saltine cracker as haute gourmet.
Democrats are embarrassed to run as Democrats. The brand is damaged.
The Tea Party movement, love 'em or hate 'em (I'm ambivalent, myself) is set to alter the face of the Republican Party, and as something real among grassroot organization is drawing respectable numbers in primary balloting, by feet at the polls, and by victories by their favored candidates.
I believe the House and Senate are both going to change hands.
You want optimism? Obama is a one term President. My dirty stanky socks can outpoll him in a landslide.
What we do now through November 2012 is groom his replacement to our liking.
(Coz my socks aren't running)
CAN we win in November with Palin candidates? And have we handed the Democrats their OCTOBER SURPRISE that'll get THEM reelected?
I think that we CAN win in November. People will be voting against BHO in the November election, handing him a vote of no-confidence. Those who don't like the Tea Party candidates will likely be staying home, and many of the rest of the voters will not vote for a Dem right now.
Beamish's point is well taken: Even James Carville sounds as non-enthusiastic as Emeril Lagasse trying to sell Cheez-Whiz on a saltine cracker as haute gourmet.
Democrats are embarrassed to run as Democrats. The brand is damaged.
In addition, Tea Partiers are willing to work for their candidates and also for candidates who oppose incumbent Dems.
I'm hoping that the morning of November 3 will be a huge victory celebration in the AOW household!
I'd rather a moderate Republican too but it seems to me like the GOP establishment has turn into a dinosaur now and is protecting its interests rather than fighting for the people.
If that's the case I have principles and am not interested in voting for those candidates. If a Dem wins so be it.
Americans have to stop the lesser-of-the-two-evil approach. It has led them to the current situation.
I would love to be able to give you some optimism, Z, but I have the same dire feelings about November...
FB ..your "principles" include voting for the guy you know will take this country down FURTHER because you're angry? That's how we got Obama!
Beamish, respectable numbers in primaries doesn't mean they'll have respectable votes in the final elections,... but, you have a point there: IF THE TP CANDIDATES CAN GET PEOPLE PHYSICALLY OUT THE DOOR AND AT THE POLLS IN LARGER NUMBERS THAN THEIR OPPONENTS BECAUSE OF THEIR PASSION, THAT COULD TAKE THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.
AND, some pollsters say that's what WILL happen.
THAT, I will agree, COULD be a situation which puts the TP candidates on top.
OTherwise, NO WAY.
AOW..I"m trying to figure out how to stay SANE election night :-) Or how to keep my big mouth shut at the polls while I'm voting! Maybe I"ll put on camouflage, get a night stick and beret, and stand in the way of the door. I hear that's no problem! :-)
First off, this whole thing about "pick the one who can win in November" is ridiculous. The primaries are specifically there for a voter to have a CHOICE. As soon as you compromise your principles at this first stage, you've already set up a losing situation, IMHO.
Also, picking the person who can win means you're voting the PARTY, not the PERSON. Sorry, but I've never subscribed to that. To a certain degree, I understand the "lesser of two evils" in a general election, but not in the primary.
Also, if folks here don't see the huge red flags being sent up from the GOP establishment about protecting their entrenched interests with how they are ignoring the citizen politician vs. incumbents/longtime DC players, we will never improve things in our government. Someone please tell me why we should elect Repubs who may vote with the Obama agenda over more conservative candidates just so we can mark an an "R" in the roll call column?!
FB ..your "principles" include voting for the guy you know will take this country down FURTHER because you're angry? That's how we got Obama
What's the problem with being angry?
It's because Bush strayed away from Conservative principles.
And the country will go down further if the establishment stays. They have no interest whatsoever in improving the situation. It's time to realize that.
We're dealing with politician aristocrats here. They like the fact the country is divided. IT allows them to remain in power, stay corrupt, etc...
I'll stick to my principles b/c the GOP needs to understand what we need. It will eventually die if it doesn't anyway.
MRS FB, I agree with you, and we do see everything very clearly, and it's a horrid proposition that we have to vote for a RINO ...
I have to admit, I'm so angry at the Democrat agenda these days that I'd vote even for a McCain. And DID! And I feel the people who didn't vote at all, or voted for Obama "just to show the GOP we're not going to take it anymore" DID make for a much sadder America.
Voting for Republicans to get them in, and then turning on the heat from the Tea Parties might have been a better way to go. I don't know, I don't have a crystal ball... MAYBE moderate Republicans had a better chance and THEN we could turn them around..
BUT, we have a lot of TP candidates now in the Nov elections and we have to hope and pray their message DOES get out and that Dems and Independents (and all those who can't stand Palin and there are a LOT of them) are listening and taking heed.
The TP candidates have 50 days or so to hammer on the constitution and why smaller government is better.
If they can do that, we have a chance.
Did you know the DE candidate who won last night said, about 11 years ago, in a public speech, that people shouldn't masturbate? I hate to talk about that here, but I do for an example of what I heard this morning on the news; people are already gearing up to slam her for that. She's going to have to do fancy talking because our side's slightest problems get HUGELY BLOWN UP in the media and the left just keeps getting a pass.......all things to consider.
"BUT........while I'm ALL FOR the platforms and values of very conservative candidates and it's exciting to seem them beat the moderate RINOs, is this REALLY a good thing? CAN we win in November with Palin candidates?"
Do you want to move the country in a specific direction or do you just want your Party/Guy to win? If a moderate Republican wins and (just like Scott Brown, Arlen Spector, Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe, The Governator Arnold, et al.) ends up voting with Democrats, how is that a win?
I'd much rather have Democrats and Democrats alone own their own policies rather than have Republicans latch on to whatever populist idea happens to be the latest flavor of the month thereby giving Democrats the opportunity of claiming "bi-partisan" support.
As for your comment about "Palin types" let's not kid ourselves here...Palin is and has become a darling of a certain faction of the Tea Party but the reality is that Palin is as establishment as the rest of them.
Some of these much more principled and much more conservative/libertarian candidates may very well lose in November and personally, I'm okay with that. What is happening is the revolution is continuing to gain momentum. Reagan's success wasn't an overnight thing. His success would have never happened were it not for the Goldwater movement.
FB, nobody said you can't be angry. The anger isn't the problem
soapster, you said "I'm okay with that. What is happening is the revolution is continuing to gain momentum."
So, meanwhile, if we don't vote against the Left, we get Obama Healthcare, illegal amnesty (guaranteeing 12 million new Democrat votes which will never go away once the horse is out of that barn), more far left judges on the SCOTUS who will NEVER LEAVE!, more condoned voter fraud, the possibility of felons voting in the future, a continuing biased media sucking up to their party, more troubles due to those who are pushing the GREEN AGENDA, more restaurants which can't serve us food our gov't thinks is bad for us...well, I could go on and on.
Well, okay!!
Please, I AM NOT FOR THESE RINO'S...!! I get the impression people here actually think that, but I'm clear in saying I'd love to see TRUE CONSERVATIVES win.. ..And I HOPE I'm wrong that I believe can't, BELIEVE ME!
Did you know the DE candidate who won last night said, about 11 years ago, in a public speech, that people shouldn't masturbate? I hate to talk about that here, but I do for an example of what I heard this morning on the news; people are already gearing up to slam her for that.
By people you must mean shallow lefties who can't debate the issues like adults, right?
Big whoop she said that. There's a lot worse than this. American people are not dumb and they know what to pay attention too these days.
I was on a Yahoo poll thing yesterday and most of the answers were full of common sense, with a pretty libertarian, center-right streak. I think people know how to prioritize the issues right now and the priority is the economy, the debt and the inability of Obama to deal with it.
What we need are people like the 3 who've written this:
http://www.amazon.com/Young-Guns-Generation-Conservative-Leaders/dp/1451607342/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284556410&sr=1-1
Meanwhile:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100915/el_yblog_upshot/tea-party-victory-endangers-gops-goal-of-retaking-the-senate
Yes, we know the media will write like this, but I think there's truth there. Again, I hope I'm WRONG.
FB, you sound like I agree that she needs to go because of the comment!!! I'm SAYING that this will be USED, and I'm saying that while Americans might be waking up, I don't trust that yet.
Will it affect all voters, OF COURSE NOT, will it help demean her in DE to the point that they did Palin, which could have lost us the election? Sure.
Do I think McCain would have been a Conservative president? Not as Conservative as we'd like...absolutely not, but better than the far leftwinger in office now? Oh, GOD, yes.
Not saying this. I think we can't be afraid by the left ridiculing. Otherwise they'll keep using the tactics.
By being afraid we're losing.
FB, I still believe what I wrote is right. And, as I say, I'm hoping I'm wrong.
I hope O'Donnell proves to the GOP they need to go back to their Conservative roots.
Better than that, the GOP has a huge opportunity to establish itself as the party of the regular folks vs. the elite Democrats. I can't believe they're not using it.
First of all you have to be clairavoyant (sp?) to know whether Tea Party candidates can pull it off in November and the f'n Republican party is in denial about how pissed off the American people are at the established politicians. Everyone said Scott Brown couldn't win and Chris Christy couldn't win...
I'm a conservative first.
My best shots going to be censored but here goes. This has me pretty troubled.
...at the time the nazis seized power, German population/society was arguably the most well-educated and sophisticated modern culture on earth.
Germany has a very rich heritage in literature,art, film and culture, as well, and this speaks to just how easily a band of sociopathic whack-a-doos can seize power when the pieces on the board line up just right.
contrast this with present-day yoo ess of aye:
in aggregate, we are easily dupable, and internally governed by a sick mix of greed, self-absorption, institutionalized abuse, sexual hangups, laziness, and fear-based everything.
this country has a racist heritage of very long-standing. it is safe to say that this country is begging for a racist, authoritarian "strong-man" type leader to take over and start cracking heads on those troublesome Muslims and Mexicans.
that strong-man figure could be a woman, makes no difference as those who control the actual levers of power do not care who the figurehead is, long's they're tractable and have "good optics."
Sarah Palin has great optics. She's an effective mix of you know what and wholesome mom with generous portions of Klanism and religio-fascism in the mix.
she is probably the ideal candidate to be used to grab the votes of those under the very general umbrella of "wanting change."
this is a very troubled nation.
And I'd love to get your perspective on how Bismarck's welfare state and policies led to the downfall of the Weimar Republic, and therefore Hitler.
B/c if you meant that German society was advanced because of Bismarck, then you need to do some more reading and look at things over a long period of time.
I don't get the "I'd rather have a moderate Republican than a Democrat" thing... really? why if they are going to just support the same horrible legislation that the Democrats push.. except it gives the Democrats an edge in arguing that Republicans did it too!!
The tea party wins are people pushing out the established RINO's who screwed us on many occasions..
Republicans have a huge lead on democrats in the polls? and why do you think this is? because people are pissed about Obamacare, Cap and Trade, etc... what good would it do us to have a Republican running who voted for any of the above?
Slightly off topic here, but I can't help but notice how the O'Donnell candidacy, as with Sarah Palin's intro to the national stage and, to a lesser degree, the treatment of Nikki Haley in the S.C. primary, exposes a nasty little streak of sexism among the old-schoolers in Washington. This is not to say that these women cannot or should not be criticized. But like the label of "racist" from the left, the entrenched in DC who must protect their interests are using the tired meme of "nuts and sluts" against conservative female candidates.
For this reason, I beg to differ with the idea that Palin is "as establishment" as the rest. She is a smart political creature, but make no mistake about it--the GOP establishment does NOT like her and I think among those reasons is the fact that she has a record of thumbing her nose at the "in crowd."
See interesting post over at Legal Insurrection on the "nuts and sluts" defense: http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2010/09/nuts-and-sluts-in-delaware.html
Now, who wants to take a bet that Castle pulls a Crist and runs Indie in Nov.? ;-)
As much as I'd like to believe true positive change can come from it, I'm afraid the tea cup's simply bobbing around in the storm, Z. :(
Do I think McCain would have been a Conservative president? Not as Conservative as we'd like...absolutely not, but better than the far leftwinger in office now? Oh, GOD, yes.
I didn't vote for McCain and probably still wouldn't, because I have to live with myself after I step out of the voting booth. For as long as I can remember, it does not seem to matter which party sits in the White House, the US has been on the same downward slide. Would John McCain have reversed any of this mess or simply allow us to breathe a short-lived sigh of relief because we would be moving more slowly toward the edge of the same cliff?
That said, I voted for a certain candidate whom Beamish has identified as intensely racist. This, I did not know at the time and, if given another opportunity, I wouldn't vote for him, either.
Surely there are principled people within the tea party movement and even located on the lower echelons of the Republican and maybe even Democratic parties. Do any of them have a chance to break into the top leadership positions?
Possibly. If it is God's will and voters are listening to Him.
In my case, my hesitance to return to simply voting Republican is not about "protesting". I'm just not sure that knowingly and deliberately aligning with the "lesser of two evils" would sit right on my conscience, anymore.
H
"So, meanwhile, if we don't vote against the Left, we get Obama Healthcare, illegal amnesty (guaranteeing 12 million new Democrat votes which will never go away once the horse is out of that barn), more far left judges on the SCOTUS who will NEVER LEAVE!, more condoned voter fraud, the possibility of felons voting in the future, a continuing biased media sucking up to their party, more troubles due to those who are pushing the GREEN AGENDA, more restaurants which can't serve us food our gov't thinks is bad for us...well, I could go on and on."
Yup. And so ya best get your ducks in a row because it's going to get alot worse before it gets better. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic about this when I say that the path to victory and virtue is not to slow the pendulum but instead get behind it and push.
It can't sustain itself. We know this to be true and so what happens to the piggies at the trough when there's no more food and nothing but a dry teet waiting for them?
I'll tell you what happens....
They eat their own.
And the rest of us who've prepared can then finally go on without them.
Such is a revolution that is necessary just as it is layed out in the Declaration of Independence wherein it is stated:
"whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
I will not hold it against anyone if they truly and honestly believe that another transfer of power to the opposition party will save the citizens of this nation. I have my doubts.....
110% with soapster.
Ducky:
...at the time the nazis seized power, German population/society was arguably the most well-educated and sophisticated modern culture on earth.
Germany has a very rich heritage in literature,art, film and culture, as well, and this speaks to just how easily a band of sociopathic whack-a-doos can seize power when the pieces on the board line up just right.
contrast this with present-day yoo ess of aye:
in aggregate, we are easily dupable, and internally governed by a sick mix of greed, self-absorption, institutionalized abuse, sexual hangups, laziness, and fear-based everything.
Well, instead of focusing on the differences in the cultures and wondering "how the heck did that happen?", try looking for the common thread.
At one time, America could lay claim to being the most well-educated, sophisticated and modern as well. Is that the point when we fell on OUR faces and allowed in the same destructive influence as did Germany? Are we experiencing the same downward spiral as Nazi Germany--only without all the blood?
How did Hitler get control of the minds of the German people after WWI? Did he not ply them with ideas of nationalistic grandeur--improved economy--a common purpose---HOPE for change? Why did no one see the truth?
How do the ruling elites in America continue to dupe people into accepting the bones we're being tossed? What is keeping Americans distracted from seeing the truth?
H
There doesn't seem to be a consensus on whether these amateur crazy candidates make Republican rule more likely.
It is a troubling sign that all the work of the Koch brothers, Murdoch, Rush and Palin can sway a very impressionable electorate.
I posted about the 'Republican Cannibalism' that may be going on and how it needs to stop. The GOP better devote its resources to all the republican candidates, whether Tea Party or not, because if we don't unite against the democrats, we will surely lose in November.
It is a troubling sign that all the work of the Koch brothers, Murdoch, Rush and Palin can sway a very impressionable electorate.
Is that your best argument, Mr Inept?
"110% with soapster."
And here I thought once again I was standing alone. ;-)
"I posted about the 'Republican Cannibalism' that may be going on and how it needs to stop. The GOP better devote its resources to all the republican candidates, whether Tea Party or not, because if we don't unite against the democrats, we will surely lose in November."
You can win the battle and still lose the war.
You're not alone. soapster. I have to defend what LaFayette, my hero, came here to defend :)
"What is keeping Americans distracted from seeing the truth?"
Complacency and Apathy.
"What is keeping Americans distracted from seeing the truth?"
Complacency and Apathy.
Yes. But WHY?--how did we get to this place? Obviously, many are waking up. But what is the path that leads to national complacency and apathy paved with?
H
...at the time the nazis seized power, German population/society was arguably the most well-educated and sophisticated modern culture on earth.
Germany has a very rich heritage in literature,art, film and culture, as well, and this speaks to just how easily a band of sociopathic whack-a-doos can seize power when the pieces on the board line up just right.
Recall that the Nazis were fiercely anti-capitalism (like all good leftists) and jack-booted up to spend themselves out of recession and depression with social programs and nationalist passions that were present even in the writings of Karl Marx nearly a century before they came along. Even their racial hygiene laws and anti-Semitism were thoroughbred strains of contemporary leftist thought.
The mood in the country is decidedly anti-leftist.
Sorry, Ducky. Your longing for Hitler's return in America is just not going to happen. Stick to your disappointments in "transnational progressivism."
"Yes. But WHY?--how did we get to this place? Obviously, many are waking up."
I don't believe they really are. They're merely stirring in their sleep. It's the same as post-9/11.
"But what is the path that leads to national complacency and apathy paved with?"
Layer upon layer of broken promises and unsurmountable debt.
The mood in the country is decidedly anti-leftist.
I dunno, Beamish.
If leftism involves socialism, and the country is decidedly anti-leftist, why are not more right -wing people demanding the abolition of the public education system rather than calling for reform?
Maybe I'm the one who's extreme, but I still say support of state-controlled education/child training is a primary test of whether a society is truly anti-left.
H
"Yes. But WHY?--how did we get to this place? Obviously, many are waking up."
I don't believe they really are. They're merely stirring in their sleep. It's the same as post-9/11.
I suppose we shall see...
"But what is the path that leads to national complacency and apathy paved with?"
Layer upon layer of broken promises and unsurmountable debt.
So, we arrive at "unreasonable dependence upon governmental provision" and "economically induced delusion"?
"If leftism involves socialism, and the country is decidedly anti-leftist, why are not more right -wing people demanding the abolition of the public education system rather than calling for reform?
Maybe I'm the one who's extreme, but I still say support of state-controlled education/child training is a primary test of whether a society is truly anti-left."
Bingo! This is precisely why I have the doubts I do. And it goes well well beyond simply public education. I've been stating this ad nauseam for years now to such an extent that even I'm getting sick of saying it.
"So, we arrive at "unreasonable dependence upon governmental provision" and "economically induced delusion"?
or Anarchy.
If human beings in a democracy are not able to go beyond thinking about their little material comfort, any society will move toward socialistic ideas and tyranny. For conveniency unfortunately, people are ready to trade liberty for stuff and material security. You can actually see it in how the left define freedom. The left definition of freedom is materialistic because it wants people to be free of necessities while true conservatives want to be free from the government and the oppression of the collective.
That goes back to my point against Ducky's assumptions. Individuals use the group as a support mechanism for survival for selfish reasons.
The Founders really knew what they were doing.
Z, your point has validity to an extent. We do have to put up candidates that have a chance of winning but we also need to run Republicans on the Republican ticket.
Stop by, I wrote about the Delaware primary today, I think it's a good example of this.
I am not certain I support Christine O'Donnell. The more "electable" candidate though, Mike Castle was not even a RINO. He was a Democrat running on the GOP ticket.
Where do we draw the line?
Like Soapster says, do we go ahead and elect people like Snowe, Specter, Collins? They have spent the last year helping Obama push his far left agenda through.
Mike Castle would have been more likely to get elected in Delaware and given the GOP another member in the Senate but he wouldn't have been a vote against Obama.
Why not take a chance on someone that is a long shot when the alternative is a RINO who will help Obama flush us down the toilet?
"So, we arrive at "unreasonable dependence upon governmental provision" and "economically induced delusion"?
or Anarchy.
Okay. If we can identify America's underlying attitude as such, and take into consideration FrogBurger's point about self-centered, materialistic motives, then we compare what we have today with the situation in Post WWI Germany, are there any similarities?
Insurmountable debt?
Disillusioned populace?
People looking for some kind of guarantee that their society will survive--or even obtain a decisive victory over circumstances?
Spiritually ambiguous (I won't try to debate it, but felt it's an important point)?
Just curious.
H
"If human beings in a democracy are not able to go beyond thinking about their little material comfort, any society will move toward socialistic ideas and tyranny. For conveniency unfortunately, people are ready to trade liberty for stuff and material security. You can actually see it in how the left define freedom. The left definition of freedom is materialistic because it wants people to be free of necessities while true conservatives want to be free from the government and the oppression of the collective.
That goes back to my point against Ducky's assumptions. Individuals use the group as a support mechanism for survival for selfish reasons.
The Founders really knew what they were doing."
Wish I could (in the spirit of Facebook) "Like" this comment.
Ducky, I'm leaving your comment because a lot of us believe that Obama is the one who proves "sociopathic whack-a-doos can seize power when the pieces on the board line up just right."
Odd you'd pick Hitler; Conservatives get screwed by people like you the minute they hint of Obama and Germany and, let's face it, his campaigning in Germany, then the big columns at his acceptance speech, etc....his move toward destroying our upper class; very disturbing to most Americans.
And they're not 'impressionable', they're just SMART and ANGRY..but to hear your twist is cute. You've been watching too much Rachel Maddow. tsk tsk
soapster; you said "
You can win the battle and still lose the war."
please read my comment about what will be set in motion if we don't win in November. It'll be far too much to counteract, especially with indoctrinated next generations.
Chuck, you said "Why not take a chance on someone that is a long shot when the alternative is a RINO who will help Obama flush us down the toilet?"
mostly because we haven't the luxury...I hope we DO. I'd vote for O'Donnell NOW, of course, were I in DE, but I'm not really sure how I'd have voted last night, frankly. I didn't follow her anyway, so I'm not sure what she's about and am a bit leery from what I have heard ...
Except, as much as I respect Rove, he's already out there saying what I've bemoaned; that these candidates are going to get libs elected. I view him as a complete GOP hack, so maybe the TP candidates aren't such a bad idea.
BY THE WAY, FOLKS...I think SOME TP candidates are fine...some are a little more 'out there' and worry me.
It's bugging me a little that some of you've said that the Republicans are the same as the Dems. Trust me, MOST are NOT.
Again, in my comments, I mentioned the Paul Ryan trio who've just written a book.......I'd like to hear how they're feeling about TP candidates because these guys are GOOD REUPBLICAN CONSERVATIVES who'd never vote for the leftwing crap.
Why not take a chance on someone that is a long shot when the alternative is a RINO who will help Obama flush us down the toilet?
"compare what we have today with the situation in Post WWI Germany, are there any similarities?"
Indeed there are similarities and the potentially dangerous electoral result knows no party.
I am reminded of a couple quotes everytime I think of the clammoring of some on the right who want to stop the socialist lurch to the left.
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
But most notably this:
"Emergencies have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded." F.A. Hayek
"It'll be far too much to counteract, especially with indoctrinated next generations."
[Scratching head vigorously] How is it that if we are a largely a center-right country that next generations could be so easily indoctrinated? Sorta speaks to C&H's post doesn't it.
Bingo! This is precisely why I have the doubts I do. And it goes well well beyond simply public education. I've been stating this ad nauseam for years now to such an extent that even I'm getting sick of saying it.
I know this can be a touchy subject and I want to be clear that I don't have a nasty attitude toward those who make use of the public education system. And my comment wasn't intended to goad Beamish, as I believe he's stated he was home-schooled himself.
I just think it is a bit of a double standard for right wing folks to expect the state to take responsibility for a great proportion of the training of their children (because we are paying it to do so), then be angry about the job that is done and the way those children end up living and voting. There's talk about making changes to the system, but I wonder how many parents are looking hard at taking more personal responsibility?
I know not all parents of public schooled children just check out for 12 years, but it is not easy to know for sure what is being taught or absorbed if one is not actively involved in the learning process. There are plenty of parents that just assume their children are getting a good education.
H
soapster, scratch away...I know too many college students who went into college fairly middle of the road on their politics, some from good solid Conservative families, and came out leftwingers....this isn't what they're LEARNED, this is indoctrination and revisionist history which includes hating America and having to swallow the prof's beliefs or fail. My own nephew who attended Columbia said "Auntie Z, i just sat there, gave the guy what he wanted to hear, got my grade and got out, it was awful" Hopefully, he's not the only one.
Here in LA, public school kids marched against Bush and the Iraq war. I could go on and on; why do you think so many parents are homeschooling?
Watch ANY TV show or film and tell me how many disparagements you hear about the Left! (answer:none) but watch any of those and hear the 'stupid Republican gags' starting from All in the Family...
that's effective and now our president's on it BIG TIME..disparage, belittle "don't give them the car keys" "Bush's party got us into this".......
Maybe you don't think that's all effective; I DO. Then you've got the Ducky types who actually think patriotic, Constitution -understanding Americans who want a return to smaller government and self reliance as some fringe nutty job which can usher in HITLER types?
I rest my case.
C&H, I'm sure you know that Texas public school texts include less history ("Let's start teaching history from after the Civil War" was the mantra) so they have time to teach ENVIRONMENTAL subjects..!
Of course, we all know the history BEFORE the Civil War gives us the words of our founding fathers, the constitution, etc...
that's no accident! And this isn't that rare.
Our kids sing "Mmm mmm mmm..Barack Hussein Obama!"...that's teaching to THINK?
I agree with you...but we can't change the system unless all Americans stand up and say they 're tired of teaching kids liberal politics instead of teaching them to THINK, giving them ALL points of view then letting them THINK.
I wasn't intending to chastise anyone either. My larger point is that it's not just education. I can't tell you how many on the right here in Minnesota were just happier than a pig in sh** to favor a public subsidy for a new Twins stadium and now they're okey dokey with getting onboard with a public subsidy for the Vikes.
I've even heard them go on and on about "all the jobs it'll create" and all the news business it'll generate.
Clearly these righties don't know a thing about economics. Where does the money for the public subsidy come from? To be sure it's a zero sum game. For every dollar that goes towards a public works project, that's one less dollar to be invested in the privat economy.
They don't care though. They oppose subsidies except for theirs. And so it goes....every piggy wiggling their way to the trough.....
A usual duck dropping goes as follows:
//this country has a racist heritage of very long-standing.//
Name one nation that hasn't.
They don't care though. They oppose subsidies except for theirs. And so it goes....every piggy wiggling their way to the trough.....
Soapster we should hang out :) Finally someone with a logical and objective mind.
I have the same problem with Conservatives who are ok with statism if it's their version of statism.
Frogburger, let me point out that whether or not you have seen more or less racism is irrelevant.
The issue is whether or not America has a history of bigotry and indeed it does. That is likely to come to the front against Muslims and Hispanics as social mobility is restricted in America and the wealth discrepancy becomes larger.
A Randian state BY NECESSITY will generate an inequality that leads to repression and quite possibly violence. In other words, unless they can be assured of being in the wealthy elite, the fringe right is voting against their self interest and as things get tighter they will look for scapegoats. We will, unfortunately, abandon a lot of the progress we have made.
Pea Brain, is it irrelevant because it shows that America is not any different than any nation?
Get out of your ethnocentric self-loathing.
And to point out another contradiction of yours, you recently mentioned discrimination of Muslims in France.
So bigotry is indeed international. It is a human trait. And it will improve but never go away.
So there's no value in loathing the US for things so many countries have also done and keep doing, including slavery in some middle eastern countries.
Your self-loathing is really hurting your analytical skills.
To be honest, Z, I'm not that well versed on what's been taught or not taught in Texas...but I can see the results in our society and know EXACTLY what your nephew is saying about having to spit back an answer in order to get a good grade. No thinking required.
Actually, I was attending a local public high-school during the year American history was a required subject, and I recognized even then that the teacher basically spoon-fed selected information to the students so they could pass the tests. I retained nothing of value from that class and have had to go about educating myself as an adult...fortunately, we homeschool, so the process has been relatively painless :)
H
Heather, you're pretty much spot on.
The key to the whole thing is media, whomever controls the images controls the culture.
"Triumph of the Will" is as instructive and frightening today as the day it was made. The wholesale dismantling of our media into cheap, frothy entertainment and a perpetual noise machine is pretty much complete. Andrew Breitbart doesn't have a slim percentage of the brilliance of Riefenstahl but he's effective.
The very, very tragic and ultimately dangerous thing is that a lot of this is done in the Lord's name.
Ducky, all this race stuff came from you people; we're the ones who finally got the Civil Rights bill passed..how many times does Beamish need to talk to you about that?
That 'dark history' you love to constantly bemoan is OVER and there are stories only NOW surfacing (thanks to Glenn Beck and David Barton) about Black founders who did incredible things for our country...all that was squelched, hidden,
because people won't vote for hand-outs unless they're made to feel like victims (enter Jesse Jackson, et al)
We are the ones who believe Blacks can do just as well as all Americans and should be, if it weren't for their pimps (though many more Blacks than our leftwing media would like to admit do just FINE)..etc.
As for media...just shows again how little you read this blog, though you apparently have it on SPEED DIAL and can't wait to throw your 2 cents in no matter if you know what I've said or not......because all I harp on is the media and the terrible influence it has on America.
Why do you think Obama's constantly slamming and belittling the last administration by NAME, a first for any president of dignity ? He knows it doesn't matter what he says as long as he slams it to America any lie he wants to conjure about the Right......it gets printed, it gets played on TV...
Why do you think LIndsay Lohan's trending more than a Health Care Bill we know nothing about?
Heather..Texas is where our school books all around the country get written and printed.
LA SUNSETT, just saw your comment; and am glad I did because I forgot to mention that.
But, of course, America's is WORSE according to the leftwingers who hate it so much they always gravitate to the WORST CASE SCENARIO.
I've been asking Ducky for months which country he thinks is EXCEPTIONAL since he said America is not. He just disappears.
See you Friday, Ducky.
I'm not worried. Most of the Tea Party upsets were in states like New York and Delaware, states with CLOSED primaries that locked 80% of Tea Party supporters OUT of the voting process entirely.
There's going to be a November surprise all right. Independents turning out in DROVES!
Ducky is troubled this week b/c Fidel is realizing it ain't working and is about to lay off half a million of gov workers to build the private sector.
Cold sweats at nigh,Ducky?
Heather..Texas is where our school books all around the country get written and printed.
Ah, thanks. I'm assuming you are referring to public school books?
We've found that going beyond the textbook has been far more edifying overall. But, as Ducky pointed out, whoever is controlling the media outlet pretty much gets to dictate which versions of information people are reading and absorbing.
I suppose that returns us to the need to overcome our complacency and apathy.
H
Herein lies the difference between myself, and others within the establishment:
In Indiana, the Tea Party failed to turn back the establishment candidate because they split their vote. I didn't vote for Dan Coats, but I will vote for him over his Obama/Reid/Pelosi loving opponent.
Why? Because he is a better choice, plain and simple. he agrees with me more times than not.
I wonder if the supporters of the establishment candidate in Delaware can and/or will do the same thing. Or will they take their ball and go home, leaving the victory to the Democrats?
If this is the case, then are these people really conservatives? Or are they Progressive Lite?
Who do they most identify with, bigger government and less personal liberty? Or are they for reduction in government and more freedom for all?
Do they seriously want to reverse the dangerous direction this nation is headed? Or are they just playing the voters, so they will vote for them?
I see no value in nominating a RINO just because he/she can beat the Dem....not if they are going to vote with the Dem's agenda anyway.
On the other hand, I would support the RINO above the Leftist Democrat because I know they will agree with me on more issues, than not. One thing I will NOT do is take my ball and go home, not when so much is at stake.
So I urge the people of Delaware to think long and hard about this. We know that the Dem candidate will fall right into line with Obama. The GOP nominee has given every indication that she will NOT.
Speedy, I HOPE SO, because the Indies WILL VOTE CONSERVATIVE, I do feel that coming..IF they vote.
FB..I know, isn't that great? and have you seen more than two stories on Castro saying "Maybe Communism didn't work in Cuba"? I saw one, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt there are TWO? :-)
Poor Michael Moore must be in mourning!
Heather..ya, public school books, from what I hear...
and YES, Heather...our complacency is what got us this media, this dishonest, misrepresenting, very leftwing media.
The GOOD THING is that FOX is No 1 again and again...and the demographics show that it's FAR from ALL REPUBLICAN, farther than I'd have dreamt. I read that the networks all lost ONE MILLION viewers last year alone.
Our profs have spawned these journalists and it's a tough job to start teachers teaching honestly in public schools...sadly, we have to resort to home schooling but that's not big enough a movement to make a difference in our electorate..not for at least 20 years, maybe more, don't you think? What percentage home school, do we even know? 2%?
I say "sadly" because I had such a great education in public school, as so many of you did here...I hate that the one-wonderful American public school is now a hotbed of undisciplined children, many of whom don't speak English, and they're even including some higher-performing Autistic kids in West LA public school rooms...so everybody loses...i spoke to a teacher's husband Sunday who said she can barely teach with the kids who don't speak English, the Autistic children and the lack of discipline in even the smarter ones. Where's that put America?...a whole generation or two of kids matriculated just so the teachers can get paid?
the good news is that the teachers in LA are starting to revolt against their union. I can't find details but will try when I have the time!
LA SUNSETT said "On the other hand, I would support the RINO above the Leftist Democrat because I know they will agree with me on more issues, than not. One thing I will NOT do is take my ball and go home, not when so much is at stake."
I rest my case.
then he said "So I urge the people of Delaware to think long and hard about this. We know that the Dem candidate will fall right into line with Obama. The GOP nominee has given every indication that she will NOT."
TAKE HEED, DELAWARE!!! YOur country needs you! :-)
"GOP DERAILED BY TEA PARTY?"
Just wanted to mention that I was surprised to see my Yahoo home page still has the headline above..they always change it every ten min or so, but not the anti GOP ones, it's been up at least an hour, maybe a bit more...cracks me up.
Sure, you and I like the headline, but to most of America, it looks like the GOP's a bunch of losers and the 'whacky' TPers (what the media portrays) are gaining in strength and screwing the Republicans.
Maybe Ducky writes the headlines :-)_?
Frogburger,
You wrote:
//I'd rather a moderate Republican too//
then:
//What's the problem with being angry?
It's because Bush strayed away from Conservative principles.//
I am confused. You said you prefer the moderate, but are angry that Bush strayed from conservatism?
Z, I'm glad to hear that there are teachers who recognize our public education system is a mess...it takes a lot of courage to speak out against the activities of one's own association.
I say "sadly" because I had such a great education in public school, as so many of you did here...I hate that the one-wonderful American public school is now a hotbed of undisciplined children...
I wonder, though, Z whether the very existence of the public school system has been an instrumental part of the downslide of which you speak.
Some of us did benefit from it, I suppose. But the incremental destruction of the family unit is an excellent way to dismantle a previously healthy culture. We might not have noticed it 30 or 40 years ago,when academic focus and such was still high. But perhaps today we are, in our publicly-schooled children, reaping the unwelcome harvest of having sown bad publicly-funded-education seed in the first place.
I don't know for sure, but I definitely wonder.
H
LASunsett, yes I am confusing.
So let me be specific. In normal times (good economy, no debt, etc.) I think I would be able to accept a moderate that is not corrupt.
Also he/she could be moderate for some aspects and no others.
For example, I could deal with a socially moderate Republican but would have a harder time with a fiscally moderate Republican.
Z, it's not very often that we disagree, but it's PROFOUND in this case. :-) Let me get back to you a little later after work and I'll explain why.
"Soapster we should hang out :) Finally someone with a logical and objective mind."
Almost every Tuesday night you can find me at Clubhouse Jager in Minneapolis hanging with my fellow liberty minded friends discussing Austrian economics and whatever else over quality beer.
"I have the same problem with Conservatives who are ok with statism if it's their version of statism."
I concur and dare I say there are a whole lot of them.
//I could deal with a socially moderate Republican but would have a harder time with a fiscally moderate Republican.//
I am socially moderate...to a degree. I do not care about anyone's private life as long as they keep it private. What I do care about is freedom and liberty.
Freedom is the opposite of oppression.
Religion can be oppressive if the wrong people are in charge of the message, but it everyone's right to choose their own path whether I think it wrong or not.
Government can definitely be oppressive, if allowed to run rampant as it has been allowed to do lately. So as I see it, less government means more freedom. Less government intrusion into religion means more freedom. Less intrusion by religion into government, means more freedom.
In short, I believe in liberty and justice for all. Any stance, on any issue that affords the individual the most freedom, without infringing on another person's rights and freedoms, is what I am for.
Thank you for clearing that up.
"In short, I believe in liberty and justice for all. Any stance, on any issue that affords the individual the most freedom, without infringing on another person's rights and freedoms, is what I am for."
Sounds like the creed I follow: "Dou as thou wilt shall be the whole of the laws until you violate the rights of another."
A fellow brother in arms! I like it.
Oh what the heck! I haven't read the thread, so please excuse me if my thoughts are identical to Pat's or someone elses.
To start with Z, I'm not buying into the narrative or the premise of the idea that we either get RINOS or Dems in the coming elections in these blue states.
Not at all.
This is a storyline perpetuated equally by two different parties--the political left in the media, and the Republican "elites" who are TRULY seeing their power base erode. Both of these parties feel VERY threatened, and that's a good thing.
This is the election cycle of an American revolution--a peaceful one for now. The tea party is taking the GOP by FORCE and once again making it into the Party of Reagan! Hooooray!
Never before have we had these leftist totalitarian statist esohbees so much on the run, and it would be stupid and self destructive beyond imagining to let up on these bastards at this point. We have such a unique opportunity to WIPE OUT the likes of Piglosi and Reid! The American people are scared to death at the tyranny coming out of Washington, DC, and we need to HARNESS that fear and outrage and channel it constructively.
The normal rules about blue states don't apply anymore in states like DE or CA or MA or NY--at least for the coming election. We have these @#$%&$ on the run, let's get rid of those who would compromise with their tyranny!
Don't buy the standard line Z, they've been wrong almost 100% so far in this election cycle. I'm going to another Tea Party get-together tomorrow night and I'm absolutely amazed at all of the new faces that keep showing up at the meetings I've been to. People are scared, they can smell the tyranny in the air and they want conservative leadership.
All of the criticisms that we're hearing were also leveled against Reagan when he ran against Ford....
I am socially moderate...to a degree. I do not care about anyone's private life as long as they keep it private. What I do care about is freedom and liberty.
------------
Then the homos came out of the closet and queered that deal, so to speak.
As log as you live like LA wants you to live, he's down with it. That's called the Libertarian (or Calvinist, same thing) idea of freedom.
I've been asking Ducky for months which country he thinks is EXCEPTIONAL since he said America is not. He just disappears.
See you Friday, Ducky.
---------------
I don't think ANY country is exceptional. We are all bozos on this bus and better learn to cooperate.
"The idea of a chosen people is just a device that primitive tribes used to give themselves a leg up in the days when the snake could talk."
--- Joseph Campbell
For all of Reagan's virtues (and I just know I'm going to catch hell for this) even a renewed Reagan revolution probably isn't going to cut it at this juncture. Of course my assessment is based on Libertarian lines but the facts are the facts and the facts on Reagan would not bode well for us right now.
True to form Reagan did cut taxes however cutting taxes while increasing spending is a recipe for disaster (see Bush #43). What's more, the tax cuts he did sign were offset by a rise in Social Security taxes and growing inflation which pushed people into higher tax brackets.
As for deregulation, the majority of deregulations were actually enacted by the Carter administration (which as we all know was about the most beneficial thing his administration gave us).
Reagan spoke of growing government and it being the problem and not the solution but there is and has been a bit of revisionist history with regards to his presidency. While he pledged to abolish the Dept. of Energy and Education, he did neither and instead grew them even adding the new Secretary of Veterans Affairs at the time.
Soapster we know two things about Reagan,
1. What he WANTED to do based on what he actually believed in
2. What he was FORCED to do based on compromises with a Democrat Congress, also filled with compromising RINOS.
He did many things in order to get his defense spending, we needed that. When i refer to the "Party of Reagan" I mean what he truly wanted and believed in based on his life of speeches and work for conservative causes. It's hard to improve on that anyways.
That's called the Libertarian (or Calvinist, same thing) idea of freedom.
The two are most definitely not equivalent. There are even variations within Calvinism.
I don't think ANY country is exceptional. We are all bozos on this bus and better learn to cooperate.
"The idea of a chosen people is just a device that primitive tribes used to give themselves a leg up in the days when the snake could talk."
--- Joseph Campbell
Not sure why any country must be designated as "exceptional", but I would say that America (and western civilization in general) has attained some tremendous highs as well as some incredible lows over the years. Americans can be exceptionally generous at times--or exceptionally greedy. We can be exceptionally motivated or exceptionally lazy. And so on.
I'm not sure it is appropriate to equate "exceptionalism" with "chosen people". There is a difference between acknowledging Providential direction of a country and claiming it to be God's chosen nation.
Thanks for that Jingoist. What I think we should also remember when we reflect on Reagan and his virtues is something that unfortunately the warhawks can't seem to grasp which is the fact that Reagan's credit of winning the Cold War had a hole lot to do with Russia overextending itself in Afghanistan.
I don't think it is a stretch to envision America doing the same at this very moment both there and elsewhere in our quest to root out terrorism.
Oh and BTW Duckbreath,
I am still waiting for you to name a country that has not had a racist past.
//The two are most definitely not equivalent. There are even variations within Calvinism. //
Dear Heather,
He is having enough trouble lumping everyone he disagrees with into one pile, don't confuse him or he'll regress back to sucking his thumb again. It's taken us a long time to get him up to the thought processes of a prepubescent teen. Everything we have worked for will be lost.
Thank you in advance,
LA
We are all bozos
Talk for yourself, Ducky. You're the biggest bozo indeed.
So go to the shrink and avoid mixing self-loathing and decision making. Your thought process is really foggy because of it.
I am still waiting for you to name a country that has not had a racist past.
Neverland. That's where Ducky wants to immigrate.
Dear Heather,
He is having enough trouble lumping everyone he disagrees with into one pile, don't confuse him or he'll regress back to sucking his thumb again. It's taken us a long time to get him up to the thought processes of a prepubescent teen. Everything we have worked for will be lost.
Thank you in advance,
Sorry.
I've got sick children this week and went looking for a little grown up interaction. Sometimes I get carried away.
Continue to enjoy your discussion interference free.
H
La Sunett. back from saving our freedoms by invading Grenada?
As i said to Frog, the question is OUR past. This isn't a comparison. We have a past and there has been a lot of effort to counter it (not much thanks to the fringe right).
There is a danger that a lot of pent up bigotry towards Muslims and Hispanics is going to be unleashed and a lot of progress undone.
I am on the fence of how the November elections are going to turn out. I am just praying that my involvement with the Tea Party movement will ease my conscious if it doesn't turn out okay.
God alone knows the outcome. And in Him and Him alone I trust.
What you guys don’t understand is that Ducky has had a traumatic life, part of which you will find depicted in the 1961 film entitled “Everything’s Ducky,” starring Buddy Hackett, Mickey Rooney, and Jackie Cooper. In this film, two sailors sneak a talking duck onto a space capsule and have their way with him. Ducky was the duck. This explains “Ducky’s Here” and other cognitive dysfunctional aspects of his multi-phobic existence: irrational fear of conservatives, patriots, military personnel, women, bedwetting, and bending over in public places.
//Sorry.//
No problem at all. Ducky looks like an adult, but when he speaks or types it becomes apparent he is not.
He certainly has very little factual understanding of Protestantism, to include Calvinism.
As i said to Frog, the question is OUR past. This isn't a comparison.
Yes you want to reject comparisons because you want to stay in your permanent state of denial.
Name one country that hasn't created atrocities. Name one religion that hasn't, including yours.
Do you loathe the Catholic Church because of what it's done to Jews, Protestants and other heretics?
So yes, no comparing is the only solution to the fog in your brain, if you have one that is.
No wonder you like the dictatorial kind.
//As i said to Frog, the question is OUR past. This isn't a comparison.//
You are right. it's damned CONTRAST. The gay rights you love to promote are non-existent anywhere in the Muslim world. Women's rights are also non-existent anywhere in the Muslim world. And you liberals bitch because homosexuals cannot marry.
You are right there is NO comparison whatsoever. And until you get it through your thick liberal skull that this is not the evil nation you make it out to be, then you may have a chance at learning something fun, new, and exciting. Until then, you are relegated to darkness and the lack of basic comprehensive skills.
Now you are taking credit for gay rights? You did NOTHING for gay rights or any other rights in this country.
You're a fringe right winger. You have no concept of rights other than the last man standing rights of Calvinism and Libertarianism.
It's because aside from marriage-related rights, there's no much to do Ducky. We all have the same individuals rights these days in the Great US of A.
Who calls gays "homo" by the way on this blog? Not me. You the leftists.
And what has the Catholic Church done for gays again?
Don't you love logic Ducky?
//Now you are taking credit for gay rights? You did NOTHING for gay rights or any other rights in this country.//
I am doing nothing of the sort.
I am saying that before you start to criticize the things you think this nation does or doesn't do, things that you think are inherently deplorable in your near-sighted eyes, you would do well to consider looking at other areas of the world.... which are light years behind the US in human rights.
And once again bird, what was the name of the country without a racist past. I must have missed it.
To any doubting Thomas's here, I would remind you, that without the energy of the grassroots movement, there would be no excitement leading up to the election.
The coalition of average people like you and me, has awakened the American people, and spread the word, through their actions, rallies and town halls, that we're not going to take being an also ran country.
There would be no large, motivated, energized base which donates money, and time on the ground to get the job done, if not for a man named Rick Santini yelling on TV, "come on folks we need a tea party". The rest is history. We took him up on it, and a little over a year later there are hundreds of thousands of us.
We all know that for years, we each voted, and hoped for the best. Most elections we found ourselves voting for the "lesser of two evils".
The establishment Republican Party gave us candidates like Ford, Dole, and McCain. I guess because it was their turn? Who knows?
When Reagan came along, the establishment was not welcoming of him. He wasn't their choice. I remember it well. However, he won over the people, and the Party was forced to accept him.
So now, I reject complaints, I reject the naysayers in Washington and the media, and I reject the notion that the people won't vote for those who have risen from our citizenry.
I'm a tea party member. If anyone had a block party with all their neighbors, and looked around at them they'd see average Americans like them. That's what it's like at a tea party rally.
Decent, concerned Americans who know this country's in trouble. They're people who worry for their children's future. There is no mystery here.
We are excited. We're motivated, and more engaged than I have seen in my lifetime. Let's celebrate ourselves for making a difference.
Pris
PS. I'm hearing on the radio right now, that money is pouring into O'Donnell's site, and that the NRSC is supporting her, and have already sent her a check.
We will be united for November!
//When Reagan came along, the establishment was not welcoming of him. He wasn't their choice. //
Exactly.
He lost to Ford in the 76 primaries. Best thing that could have happened to him.
//I'm hearing on the radio right now, that money is pouring into O'Donnell's site, and that the NRSC is supporting her, and have already sent her a check.//
They crashed the website with so much traffic.
Ducky writes:
"There is a danger that a lot of pent up bigotry towards Muslims and Hispanics is going to be unleashed and a lot of progress undone."
How sad it is that you consider Balkanization in America to be "progress." I don't know many Americans who have serious problems with "muslims", but I know plenty who have serious problems with islamofascists.
Here's a hint duckster, they tend to be different types, but don't tell anyone. Well keep it between you and I.
And who in their right mind has a problem with "Hispanics"? MANY of us have them married into our families, just like Italians, Jews, Irish, Germans, blacks....
Oh, wait a minute! Did you mean to write "illegal aliens"? In that case you COULD have written "gate crashers, fence jumpers" or any number of names for people who sneak into our counrty IN VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW !!!!
Are you implying that all "Hispanics" are illegal alien invaders? Why would you imply such a thing?
I certainly hope my questions helped to clarify the issues ducky. :-)
Pris:
"We are excited. We're motivated, and more engaged than I have seen in my lifetime. Let's celebrate ourselves for making a difference.
Pris
PS. I'm hearing on the radio right now, that money is pouring into O'Donnell's site, and that the NRSC is supporting her, and have already sent her a check.
We will be united for November!"
Pris that's one hell of an inspiring post! Thank you. :-) I wish i could send her a bundle, but everything I can afford is going to Rick Scott and Marco Rubio here in FL. I've already scheduled 6 days off between now and November for volunteer work to get our guys elected. Nt only that, but I'm going to pay a few of my guys to wave signs or walk the neighborhoods for Scott.
We gotta turn the tyranny around!
I do not have time to read through 100 comments. You really stirred one up with this post though?
I do agree with Beamish that we do have a habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, but I am praying that is not the case this time. I believe this is a true referendum and the RHINO's should take it as a wake up call. We are tired of status quo. We want our country back. I truly believe that if a person running on the Republican ticket wins the nomination from the incumbent, the RNC owes it to that candidate to back and support him. The American people spoke yesterday. Now it is time to put the machine behind winning.
Interesting note, I follow Christine on FB and she is nearing $700K in donations today only. That in itself has to say something.
I do agree we do not need a civil war within our ranks, but I think it is the RNC who fired the first shot.
Thanks Jingo,
I wish I had a bundle too. We've been sending certain candidates small amounts fairly often,
including Rubio.
Florida is lucky to have you! Go get 'em!!
Pris
Oh, GAD, I just got back and there are something like 50 more comments...Well, I want to respond to a few; know I read them all and appreciate them all and only respond to something that really kicks something in my mind!
Heather, I don't see how my school system from the time I went to school hurt anything. I was not indoctrinated, I learned, we had the decency to believe the teacher was an authority figure ..etc.
Soapster, I read JAGER in your Clubhouse name and knew BEER was coming...I'll bet they've got some good German brews!?
Jingo, you'll never convince me. Just know I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT. Let us know how that event goes, okay?
Ducky, thanks for quoting Joseph Campbell :-) An authority ...I know. geeesh
And yes, ONE country must be exceptional by sheer definition...pick one.
Pris, I hope to heaven you're right, too. I don't see it, but the RNC is backing O'Donnell:
From the RNC's Michael Steele:
"Congratulations to Christine O'Donnell and all of our Republican nominees in Delaware on their primary victories last night.
The people of Delaware have spoken. And just like voters across America, they are demanding commonsense conservative candidates who will focus on the issues that matter most to them: creating jobs, turning the economy around and protecting our most cherished freedoms.
Christine O'Donnell is exactly that type of candidate and the RNC is proud to support her and our entire slate of Republican candidates in Delaware. But with only 48 days until Election Day, time is running out for Republican grassroots leaders like you to help the RNC provide Christine and all our candidates with the campaign resources and direct financial assistance they need to win."
You all going to go off her now? :-) heh heh!
Gramma, the TPers fired the first shot by not going along with the RNC, which was a GOOD shot! We just have to hope and pray that we can pull this off...
If the RNC is truly giving money to O'Donnell (the rest of his piece said they need money, so send it in...are all of you going to send it in to the RNC NOW? :-)), we could definitely win.
IF O'Donnell is articulate and the media doesn't crucify her for some of the ridiculous things she's said a few years back.
Z:
"Jingo, you'll never convince me. Just know I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT. Let us know how that event goes, okay?"
That's enough for me. :-)
In the meantime, we have a country to save, and we can agree that people like Mike Castle (who promised to vote for Cap and Tax) are NOT the ones to rely on towards that end.
We got someone who we can back happily and wholeheartedly.
That's at least half the battle!
Heather, I don't see how my school system from the time I went to school hurt anything. I was not indoctrinated, I learned, we had the decency to believe the teacher was an authority figure ..etc.
That's fine, Z. I wasn't attempting to say that I know all public school systems at all times have been bent on destroying families.
We can agree that the current system has serious issues, though, even if we might not see eye to eye on when exactly the error occurred. If the problem is in who controls the system, we can probably fix what we've got. If the implementation of publicly funded education was a mistake to begin with, then there is a deeper concern that needs to be faced.
I only brought it up because
1. It interests me that publicly funded schooling by way of taxation looks a lot like socialism to me and I don't usually hear many right wingers say "we don't want govt funded public education" with the same conviction as is said such things as "we don't want govt-provided health care". It suggests to me that many of us are not as opposed to socialism as we would like to think--if we can see personal benefit in the proposed program.
2. It is, in part, within this publicly funded educational system that so many children are learning to lean so heavily on the state for guidance. While the texts themselves can be a problem (ie spotty or re-written history, "new" math) so also is the way children are expected to learn (spoon feeding, spit back the "acceptable" answers, etc). The learning environment definitely affects the political and social decisions these children make as adults.
That's really all I was thinking and why I connected it to your topic. I'll drop the subject now. I know your post was not focused on problems with the school system.
Hope you have a restful evening.
H
Heather, thanks, you have a nice night, too.
I'm interested in what you said and yes, it's a bit farther from the post topic than usual, but that's okay.......
We're just used to having a public school system, much more than public health care, of course.
And, that system of public schools was so good for so many years! We met people of other cultures, we all learned the same thing...it was just GOOD.
And I'm sure some schools are still okay, but I'd say VERY FEW.
I think it's mostly the parents who've declined in their discipline and attention, with so many Moms working these days it's tough!, ...and the teachers (not all) have become more interested in their salary and benefits than the kids...but we can hardly blame them when so many have classes like I previously described; some students with autism, some who don't speak English, some who are so undisciplined they can't keep them quiet or in their seats and, when they try, they're chastised by the parents!
oh, well.........maybe we'll do a post on this some day...maybe I'll ask my readers what their opinion is. thanks. :-)
Hi Z,
I just heard O'Donnell has
received, just today, over $500,000. Just goes to show you, there's no such thing as bad publicity! Only publicity.
In fact, smears aren't based on truth, they're based on half truths, or made up out of whole cloth. Obviously a lot of folks responded to them with their pocketbooks.
The NRSC has flipped and now supports her.
Yes, I do contribute to the RNC. I do spread it around to certain candidates too though. You know I'm not rich!!! However the way I look at it is, if I'm donating small amounts, thousands of others are too.
We have to have faith.
Pris
I just heard Krauthammer agrees with me and she can't get elected, Pris, but as I've said countless times here, I do hope I'm wrong :-)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100915/ap_on_go_ot/us_election_lookahead
there's that...that information has to help, huh?
Yes, I'd heard O'Donnell was bringing in tons of dough...a good thing!
//I just heard Krauthammer agrees with me and she can't get elected, Pris, but as I've said countless times here, I do hope I'm wrong//
Krauthammer is one of my favorite pundits and surely one of the smartest I know. But other than one man I know of, there has never been a human being on this earth who was right 100% of the time.
They are all eating crow on this one. No one believed this lady could win.
The Dems were both wrong and scared before this one. NOW, the GOP is the same. They now know what it feels like.
This Tea party will never be about party. Never has been. And this is why the parties should be scared.
Of course, I could be dead wrong. But believe me, I do like our odds. I may even send O'Donnell $20 to help her along with what will be a battle for the heart and soul of our nation. She has already raised $500,000 in one day.
"IN CASE YOU MISSED THIS:
The GOP has not just offended O’Donnell but has gone out of its way to offend her Tea Party supporters across the nation — folks who were already highly skeptical of the party establishment.
It’s not just inexcusable, it’s inexplicable.
It’s as if everyone forgot why we have primaries in the first place.
This has been a gut-check moment for Republican leadership, and with a few exceptions, they have failed it.
Someone tell me why Rove and the rest of the cowards and elitists in the Repub party...really fear the TParty?
Do they not get it? Do they not see that if they don't join with us....THEY WILL BE The MINORITY PARTY...FOREVER AND BEFORE LONG.
IT'S REALLY TIME TO KICK THE STUPID, DUMBASS REPUBS IN THEIR CROTCHETY OLE NUTS.
Vote them out too...and Make Rove an anachronism at the same time.
If Americans don't want the Tea Party candidates, then they'll get the socialist scum currently shoving your fine nation down the toilet.
"they are demanding commonsense conservative candidates who will focus on the issues that matter most to them: creating jobs, turning the economy around and protecting our most cherished freedoms."
Too bad...he's totally full of shit. The R's are panicked. And come on folks lets face it. They're as bad as the Demrats in the sense that they'll lose whatever power, prestige and privileges they think is their birthright.
At least we know that's what the Demrats are all about...witnessing Pelousy's double fist pump and the gavel over America.
All...and I swear I mean....all of them have to go. If it's the TParty that will be the dominate, revolutionary change that America needs...it's better to have a victorious political war over the established frauds than a real live civil one.
Because they just don't get it....and refuse to acknowledge it...they must be defeated. They must be punished and cast aside.
And what has the Catholic Church done for gays again?
Made them priests and shielded them from prosecution as child molesters, for one....
Oh yeah, my bad. The question was rhetorical...
LA, nobody said Krauthammer gets it right, but he usually is.
I refuse to say I HOPE I (and he) AM WRONG one more time...
Impertinent...the RNC is turning to O'Donnell now.......
She lost to Biden approx 2 to 1 in '08, so we have to hope people STAY HOME and conservatives GET OUT AND VOTE (for a change)
Beamish, so good..just SO good :-)
MK: AMEN, brother.
And please come back together, I"ve got an Aussie post up at midnight LA time. xxx
rove was on glass's campaing committee....so what do we exect him to do?
Great story up on Yahoo about Christine ...
"And in addition to her MTV clip, she's also now being dogged by footage of a 1998 appearance on Bill Maher's "Politically Incorrect" in which she insisted that lying is always wrong, even for European families harboring Jews in their home during World War II as Nazis came to their door."
You better hope the Tea party Express finds a way to get her on a very short lease or you are going to have buyer's remorse like you won't believe. The woman is a nutlog.
Holy Shiite!!! Rove's on Greta's show RIGHT NOW ripping O'Donnel!! WTHell Karl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What's the "establishment" doing!!!
It's over GOP! Figure it out guys.
BZ, no way! But thanks. This is all about a provocative question people couldn't resist answering...I'm very grateful for the conversation; all the comments (well, most...) really make us think.
Ducky, you didn't really think she'll escape unscathed with the fears of the leftwingers licking at her feet, did you? :-) She's said lots of dumb stuff and oh BROTHER are they going to pile it on her! They are scared, ducky! ; but man, it's sure good to hear a politician who actually is against lying..compared with our administration today...WHEW, what a difference.
Don't forget, Obama didn't know Ayers, never heard Jeremiah preach hate for this country and he's real fond of making sure babies die if they escape an abortion attempt. OH, and you can keep your private health care plan if you choooe (my favorite)..OH! and "no taxes for the middle class", my new second favorite lie. Nice going, Dems...
Jing0; I have admired Rove in the past but the last few months I've seen what a GOP hack he is; it's ALL PARTY. Thankfully, a LOT of Republicans are flocking TO her, as is Michael Steele...$$$
Man, O'Reilly can be SUCH a pompous ass. "O'Donnell's handlers won't let her come on his show because it's a TOUGH FORUM!"
Yes, as TOUGH as he was on Obama? That was hilarious and SOFT as it gets!! :-)
Obviously, I'm watching the O'Reilly rerun tonight......I'm hearing what we all knew..the media's saying O'DONNELL COULD NEVER WIN.
You know? I'm thinking that's exactly what the Indies do NOT want to hear; I think Independents are as SICK of the media as WE are and that just might backfire..ya think?
Z - Bill Maher was on Larry King last night. He said, "O'Donnell will never win." Two seconds later John King broke in and said that she had won.
I don't know much about O'Donnell, and don't really keep up with out-of-my-state Senate races, myself having the pre-17th Amendment mentality that Senators should be appointed by and represent the interests of their state legislatures. That said, I've not heard anything particularly inpressive about O'Donnell. If she were running from Missouri, I probably wouldn't vote for her.
You want to destroy this national shell game of partisan majorities in Congress? Repeal the 17th Amendment.
Then, if you don't like your Senators, change your state legislature.
I know it's a pipe dream, returning to the government designed by our Founding Fathers, but if I were a Tea Partisan, repealing the 17th would be a top item on my agenda.
Sue, really? I watched about half of the King/Maher interview but missed that! Ha!
I keep watching that guy wondering what you can see in him, but I remember I thought he was terrific some years back, too.
He seems so empty and egocentric now...to watch Larry King treat him as if Maher's like THE spokesman for Americans is a bit tough to handle..
I feel sorry for Maher somehow...I know this sounds nuts, but he seems lonely and 'empty'...that his eyes have no joy.
Beamish, I don't know much about O'Donnell and was pleasantly surprised tonight when she was interviewed by, I think, Hannity. She really handled the questions well........I kind of agree with you about not knowing much about her.
She's going to have to REALLY bone up and be ready for debates, etc...to be able to answer quickly and articulately. That she's not stupid was clear in the interview tonight but it was, obviously, a pretty softball interview; we'll see how she does in the clinches.
But the Liberal "Hate Republicans/Conservatives" media will annihilate her like they tried to do to Palin; this might all be a moot point.
Z - I can understand what you are saying. I can see a difference in him in the three years I have been watching him. Of course he is getting older - as we all are - and he has no family, except maybe his sister.
But when I like someone I try not to be to quick to give up on them. His new season starts Friday, but I won't be here to watch it. I want to see how he does. He seems to be going off on the anti-religion thing more now, which is not my favorte part of him. I like it when he sticks to politics.
Maybe the pot is affecting him.
Sue, is he a pot head? Does he admit it on the air?
I know what you mean about not giving up on someone easily ...heck, I even really liked Chris Matthews and Joe Scarborough for a long time. It was hard to see them change...
When do you leave on your trip? You'll be missed and I SO hope you have a terrific time!
Z - Yes, it is no secret that he loves pot. He was on Leno and then last night on Larry King, and I felt he wasn't as sharp as he usually is. That's why I want to see his new season.
Thanks! It's a short trip. I'll be back on Tuesday. Lookin'forward to it. You have a good weekend.
thanks, Sue....have fun!
Bill Maher just seems dissipated lately..let me know how he does when the show starts, okay?
Most Tea Party favorites are positioned well for the general election. I think most of Palin's picks will do well too.
Well, I don't begrudge Bill Maher his recreational pot-smoking. I actually quite agree with his legalization stance, at least up to the point before he goes all Cheech and Chong salivating about the government dispensing "medicinal" bongs and kif via Obamacare.
My pot legalization argument is sort of the "why do we tax cigarettes to discourage smoking, and then throw money into tobacco farm subsidies" analogy used by WF Buckley, who was a "legalize it" head himself (dunno if he toked, but I'd certainly have blazed one up with him just for the fascinating conversation, heh)
Marijuana is illegal because Prozac and Xanax aren't. It's the pharmaceutical lobby, really.
That all said, Bill Maher himself has said far worse that "Europeans should not have lied about harboring Jews when the Nazis came calling" or whatever on his show. I don't know the context of O'Donnell's remarks 12 years ago (talk about irrelevant desperation from the left) but I'd hope it would be in the spirit of "Europeans should have answered the door with a shotgun when the Nazis came calling."
We all know the Jewish ghetto in Warsaw lasted longer against the Nazis than the Soviet Red Army did against them in holding the Ukraine.
Leftists rather suck against armed opposition.
1. i think a healthy opposition to the GOP from the right is a good thing even if it doesn't mean winning general elections immediately. i think it forces the GOP to the right for the future, so it' kind of a delayed gratification thing.
2. i see no logical contradiction with ducky's statements "america is not exceptional" and "there is no country more exceptional than america." he's saying they all have their good points and bad, but there isn't really a dime's worth of difference (duck, am i translating correctly?)
3. duck's opening salvo really did sound like he got an advance copy of an olbermann speech.
4. i'd be interested to know the context of this lying to save the jews statement.
tio
tio, I have to reiterate my thinking that we don't quite have that luxury today of not caring if we win this one.
We've got a SCOTUS judge or two who'll probably have to be appointed in the next year or two, we've got a health care situation which, once implemented, will be VERY hard to undo, etc etc...Sorry, got to disagree with you there.
If there IS no country more exceptional, then America IS the exceptional, no? :-)
RK: Fingers crossed!!
Z, there was some talk about this on the powerline blog--the buckley doctrine v. the limbaugh doctrine. buckley says vote for the right-most candidate with a chance of winning. limbaugh say vote for the right-most. i tend to think the GOP has gotten complacent and knows conservatives have no other place to go. i understand what you're saying, but don't like the idea of losing with the "moderate, electable" candidate. linda mcmahon comes to mind.
a tangent pertaining to the exceptionalim discussion. a while back, hanity talked about a poll asking people if there were a fire and you could save either your dog or a human you didn't know, which would you save? I think the Christian response would be "I'd save the human because he is made in God's image--that is humans are exceptional among living things." Someone with a different world view might say "I'd save the dog, because I know it." It's not that dog's are better than humans. It's just that it doesn't matter, so the decision needs to be made based on other criteria.
The American exceptionalism could be an interesting thread. Is America exceptional? What makes it so? Is it specific principles? If another country surpasses US in those principles, does the country become exceptional? Is it really the principles that are exceptional? (i think you have had posts on similar topic of discussion)
to me "exceptional" means different in kind, not just in degree.
tio
tio, you said "i understand what you're saying, but don't like the idea of losing with the "moderate, electable" candidate"
I think I said that might be the only way we'll WIN........I hope I'm wrong but the polls in Delaware tonight are terrible for O'Donnell.
One definition, and I think the most used definition of EXCEPTIONAL is "unusually excellent". Of course we can talk about the criteria for that..Ducky might think a Socialist country is 'unusually excellent'...I'd use health, freedom, opportunity, etc. are.....well, come to think of it, Armenia may be more exceptional than America these days :-) !!!
You sound like you watch a lot of FOX NEWS, mostly becuase I keep hearing so much paranoia.
It's bizarre that you feel things are so bad now. I feel a lot better that Obama's taking care of Bush's mess.
If not Obama, then who?
Jonathan, this always fascinates me
I feel a lot better that Obama's taking care of Bush's mess.
-what "Bush mess" are you talking about? If you are talking about the wars you are wrong, Iraq was improving when Bush left office and at the very least Obama is maintaining the status quo, Obama has made Afghanistan worse. If you are talking about the economy, remember that the economy didn't actually start to go bad until after the Dems took control of Congress so calling that just Bush's "mess" is at the very least disingenuous.
-what is Obama doing to fix these supposed messes? Name one thing he has "fixed" since he has been in office.
Answer these questions please.
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