Saturday, July 6, 2013

Kruschev was a prophet

Excerpts from a speech by Secretary of Agriculture under the Eisenhower Administration, Ezra Taft Benson:

"Your children will live under communism." Khrushchev said.
"On the contrary," Secretary Benson replied, "My grandchildren will live in freedom as I hope that all people will."
Khrushchev then retorted: "You Americans are so gullible. No, you won't accept Communism outright; but we'll keep feeding you small doses of Socialism until you will finally wake up and find that you already have Communism. We won't have to fight you; we'll so weaken your economy, until you fall like overripe fruit into our hands."

Gad.  Maybe he was two generations early, but............

Think he's right?
Z

110 comments:

Shaw Kenawe said...

"...so far as anyone has been able to prove, Khrushchev never said any such thing. The quote, which has been used by demagogues since the early 1960s to equate liberal/progressive policies with communism, doesn't appear in Khrushchev's writings or in the transcripts of any his speeches, and the only person who ever claimed to have witnessed the utterance firsthand (see update on Ezra Taft Benson below) gave contradictory accounts of where and when the words were supposedly spoken.

Long history

As it turns out, folks have been trying to authenticate the passage, to no avail, ever since it was first foisted on the American public around 1959-60. The late Rep. Morris Udall chronicled his own efforts to do so in an article published in The New Republic some 46 years ago. Among other dead ends, his query to the Library of Congress yielded this reply:

We have searched the Legislative Reference Service files, checked all the standard reference works on quotations by Khrushchev, and consulted with the Slavic division of the Library of Congress, the Department of State, and the US Information Agency, in an attempt to determine the authenticity of this quotation. From none of these sources were we able to produce evidence that Khrushchev actually made such a statement.


Boller and George: The quote is a 'deliberate fabrication'

According to Paul F. Boller and John H. George, authors of They Never Said It: A Book of Fake Quotes, Misquotes, and Misleading Attributions (Oxford, 1989), the quote was, in fact, a "deliberate fabrication of some radical rightists in this country, who thought it summed up Khrushchev's attitude" (which it actually did not — like most Marxists of his time, Khrushchev believed the capitalist system was inherently unstable and doomed to collapse all at once of its own accord, not that it would be gradually undermined and supplanted by socialism from within).

Yet here it is, that same misbegotten quote, still in use some 50 years later, the only difference being that now we're supposed to believe it sums up the political philosophy and agenda of liberal Democrat Barack Obama."

SOURCE

Always On Watch said...

From the Snopes forum on 16 August 2010, 12:55 AM:

I believe the original form was less direct (i.e., it was said about Americans, not to Americans): "We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialsm, until they suddenly awake to find they have communism."

Ed Bonderenka said...

Regardless, it seems someone said it a while back, and they were right.

Sam Huntington said...

David Emery is a free lance writer whose credits include contributing editor of a satirical newspaper, and staff writer for a television situational comedy. He has a BA in philosophy. None of this makes him a relevant “source” of information, and so once again we find Shaw’s defense of communism extraneous.

Rather than quoting Khrushchev, however (whose son Sergei immigrated to the West), American socialist Norman Thomas did make such a statement: “The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But under the name of ‘liberalism’ they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day, America will be a Socialist nation, without even knowing how it happened.”

Always On Watch said...

Z,
Off topic....Check out Mr. AOW's post yesterday. Something unusual about Armenian boxer Bagrat Grigoryan.

Jack Whyte said...

“I once said, 'We will bury you,' and I got into trouble with it. Of course we will not bury you with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you.” —Nikita Khrushchev

He might have said, “Your own progressive movement” will bury you. Then we could claim that Nikita was a prophet. Stalin made a similar claim during the 7th Comintern in 1935 …

beamish said...

I've never read that Khrushchev ever said such a thing.

A similar quote has been attributed to six-time Socialist Party presidential candidate Norman Thomas - "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

This quote is likely fabricated as well.

All we know for sure is that Norman Thomas stopped running for President as a Socialist, citing that the Democratic Party had adopted his entire platform.

sue hanes said...


Z - No - I don't think he's right.

beamish said...

Anyway, as far as the "correctness" of the "prophecy," no, it's wrong.

Yes, America has marched to the left over the last 40 - 70 years, and yes that leftward advance has the earmarks of Fabianism, but FASCISM is also a strain of leftist thinking, and there we are headed.

Ducky's here said...

This may be the source of the quote

Give it a look. Some of the best conservative film making ever.

Sam Huntington, can you explain to the class why Shaw's search for an accurate source of the quote constitutes a defense of anything other than accuracy.

beakerkin said...

Obama has gone beyond Marxism into
idiotacracy. He has a defacto state press that rationalizes every abuse of power with I don't know.

How does anyone act so arrogant and Professorial while saying I don't
know over and over.

Essentially, despite Duncy's claims
Obama is living proof that it takes
zero intelligence to repeat lefty cliches.


























The line from Progressive to Communism is quite narrow.

FairWitness said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sam Huntington said...

Ducky once more misses the point. I do not fault Shaw in her search for credible sources of information; I simply observe that she seldom ever succeeds. Shaw is so overjoyed to prove her own intellectual superiority that she frequently demonstrates just the opposite. It isn’t sufficient to merely cite a source of information; of greater importance is that source’s bona fides. Emery is not credible, while Taubman is …

In many ways, Shaw reminds me of Ducky; in fact, I’ve often wondered if Shaw is one of Ducky’s sock puppets.

FairWitness said...

Not sure what happened to this post, it disappeared.

I'm awfully discouraged by the agenda and policies of our current government. I had a very hard time accepting that so few Conservatives turned out to vote in November, especially with so much at stake. Even with the Obama Administration's successful IRS, EPA, Labor Dept., FBI, Justice Dept., ATF, et al, intimidation against us, there is NO EXCUSE for staying home, running scared, accepting defeat, submitting to their pressure. I'm not sure enough of us are up to the fight needed to defeat these opponents.

At any rate, it would appear Khrushchev or whoever is responsible for the quote could have been correct.

The Debonair Dudes World said...

Kruschev was a prophet! Obama is a Kenyan village idiot

Shaw Kenawe said...

"Shaw reminds me of Ducky..."


One of the nicest things anyone has said about me. Thank you for the compliment. I only wish I were as talented and smart as he.

Exposing the Hypocrisy of the Liberal Left said...

Does anyone else find that Obama Supporters/ Lefties/ Liberals/Democrats/Progressives are incredibly stupid?

SOURCE: http://progressiveerupts.blogspot.com/

Impertinent said...

News Flash....about the success of that $100 million bucks vacation:

"A conservative analyst finds it odd that during his recent African tour, President Barack Obama announced support for a citizen ID program in Kenya - yet considers a similar effort in the United States to be racially motivated.

While President Obama and his family toured the African continent earlier in the week, the White House released a Fact Sheet that promotes a $53 million U.S. taxpayer-funded program in Kenya that assists young people to "obtain National identification cards, a prerequisite to voter registration."

Robert Knight, senior fellow of the American Civil Rights Union, says many who seek to defend against voter fraud in the U.S. are perplexed with Obama's inconsistencies in regards to the voter ID issue.

"The irony is that the president is using taxpayer dollars to promote something in Africa that he is actively suppressing in the United States, and calling people names who are promoting that very thing," Knight remarks to OneNewsNow."

Impertinent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Impertinent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Constitutional Insurgent said...

As a nation, we've been sliding towards an odd oligarchal-Socialism paradigm for quite some time now.

We enable this slide by voting in the same parties and the same personalities every other November, exactly as Norman Thomas predicted.

Impertinent said...

And...F&F still rolls on..while Holder is still in office??

"WASHINGTON—A high-powered rifle lost in the ATF’s Fast and Furious controversy was used to kill a Mexican police chief in the state of Jalisco earlier this year, according to internal Department of Justice records, suggesting that weapons from the failed gun-tracking operation have now made it into the hands of violent drug cartels deep inside Mexico.

A semi-automatic WASR rifle, the firearm that killed the chief, was traced back to the Lone Wolf Trading Company, a gun store in Glendale, Ariz. The notation on the Department of Justice trace records said the WASR was used in a “HOMICIDE – WILLFUL – KILL –PUB OFF –GUN” –ATF code for “Homicide, Willful Killing of a Public Official, Gun.

The ATF declined to discuss the matter; officials said they are still compiling an inventory of all the lost firearms for a complete account of the Fast and Furious operation.

Instead of being tracked, almost all the weapons were lost as they flooded across the border into Mexico. In all, some 211 people were killed or wounded by Fast and Furious weapons in Mexico, according to Mexican authorities. And on this side of the border, a Fast and Furious weapon was found at the Arizona scene where U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was slain in 2010."



Who needs a Kruschev like commie when we have one of our own converts in place...inside the DOJ and ATF?

FrogBurger said...

I think CI is right. I don't think it'd happen in the US. If we have to fall towards authoritarianism, I think we'd more likely fall into fascism where big businesses remain private but work with a central government. I don't see the nationalization of all industries happen in the US. That's what Communism is.

And let's look at it this way: Communism fails because it runs out of money. It could only work at a global level, with no countries competing. Hence the necessity to be international to survive and "work." But even then, people would end up starving anyway because 2 people would work for 8 slackers. There's a reason why China's changed so much.

So I think Kruschev is wrong.

JonBerg said...

EHL,


I wouldn't use the word "stupid", they often demonstrate "book smart" traits and by "rote" regurgitation to a high degree. However, when it comes to the [real] World and common sense they generally fall short. Their innate naivety disallows them from seeing outside of what they consider to be their idealistic little bubble.

beakerkin said...

Shaw

I know Ducky. Ducky is a friend of mine. He is neither talented nor intelligent. He repeats failed bad ideas that have proven to be failures in every application.

Marxists are not intelligent. It takes no brilliance to repeat slogans and march off the cliff of reality.

Somewhere, Mr Beamish has the official list of subjects Ducky has been proven a moron.

Despite his claims of bigotry, a closer examination of his statements reveals him to be an Urban red redneck. Yes we can call
Condi Rice Aunt Jemimah because it is politically correct.

Part of intelligence is intellectual freedom. In essence as
you are essentially repeating cult dogma you are a parrot.

FrogBurger said...

When you think about it, with the NSA gathering information on citizens, the gov subsidizing big businesses, the LAUSD teaching kids Obamacare so they can teach their parents, we may very well be in the first stage of a socialist fascist state.

Add to that the food and health Nazis like Bloomberg and I think the seeds are being planted.

France is socialist but the State isn't watching you and telling you what to eat like the American government is. And schools, even though most teachers are on the left, aren't teaching gov programs to kids. That's what sad.

Impertinent said...

@Froggy:

"France is socialist but the State isn't watching you and telling you what to eat.."

Can you imagine? With the French love of food and drink...there'd be another Bastille Day by the weekend.

Viva la appetite!

Robert Sinclair said...

There is no reason for the state to watch the good people of France ... they've been beaten into submission. I think it is time the American people got used to doing what they are told, as well. Just go back to sleep America. You can trust your government.

FrogBurger said...

Can you imagine? With the French love of food and drink...there'd be another Bastille Day by the weekend.

That's for sure.

There is no reason for the state to watch the good people of France ... they've been beaten into submission.

You're right but that's been like that for millenniums with kings.

FreeThinke said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Z said...

imp, that's funny, since Bastille Day IS this weekend :-)

SHAW, so glad you posted that. I Googled quite a bit before I used it and I saw the venues saying it was said by Kruschev.
Of course, your 'expert' shows his bias using terms like the 'far right wing blogosphere' and calling Benson an "anti communist ZEALOT" :-). I know the left hates those "zealots" who don't admire communism, right?
And, of course, the site says Benson is accused of saying the Civil Rights movement was a plot to destroy America, when, whatever he meant or felt, he sure didn't represent the rest of the Republicans who finally DID get the Civil Rights Act passed.

And I'm glad you're ever lurking at geeeeZ looking to prove me wrong....your very rare comments saying I'm wrong make me realize how right I normally have it. Thanks!

EVERYONE: Did you know there's a PUBLIC high school in NYC called Norman Thomas High School? When I first heard they'd named a school after an avowed socialist, I actually called the school and asked if it was public.." yes, it is!!" the happy little receptionist responded. Ya...Norman Thomas is well honored in New York, as least.
I guess I'm a 'zealot' to even consider that wrong? :-)


IMP: we're paying to make sure Kenya has legal voting after what happened HERE..? And how HARD the lefties are fighting any kind of voter cards which would only have legal Americans voting? Man, they HATE that, I wonder why WE are paying for it in Kenya?
Let's see how fast the WH shuts Robert King up.

And your other story's upsetting too...and should be to every American, but most won't hear about it.
THIS is what Bush's people were doing..dumping guns on cartels then KEEPING THEM WATCHED. remember those ATF guys who were stunned when Holder's DoJ told them to dump the guns and LEAVE? AWFUL. I guess Holder just didn't understand what Bush had so wisely set up. Bad times. I'm so sad a Mexican police chief had to die for the mistakes this admin. is making.

Shaw Kenawe said...

"beakerkin said...
Shaw

I know Ducky. Ducky is a friend of mine. He is neither talented nor intelligent."


Coming from you and the others who love to throw pot shots at him, I see that as an indication of how brilliant he truly is: He pisses you all off. And you say he's not talented or intelligent?

The guy's a genius. All anyone has to do is look at who the people are that he so consistently and joyously drives crazy.

Ducky's here said...

Shaw, the idea of you being a sock puppet is pretty out there. Sam can't understand that billions on the planet are to his political left.

I took this in the North End during the heat wave. Maybe you've seen it.
She was very passive when I took the photo. Real old school trying to beat the heat. I imagine she's seen some changes.

North End heat wave

I'll stick to the camera. I don't have your skill as a sculptor.

FreeThinke said...

I was eighteen or nineteen years old in 1960, and recall quite vividly that our then-still-posing-as-loyal news media widely reported that Kruschev stood before the UN General Assembly, banged his shoe on the table (or the dais, whatever it was), and said, “We will bury you.”

Kruschev, no matter what his ACTUAL words or gestures may been, was certainly paraphrasing Marx. Marx stated in the Communist Manifesto of 1848:

"What the Bourgeoisie therefore produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable."

No matter what his actual words or gestures may have been at the time, Khrushchev was clearly indicating that, as the USSR was booming under the early part of his rule, and would, by some economic indicators, begin to overtake the USA by about 2000. This to him indicated that Marx's prophecy was, indeed, going to come true.

What he was NOT saying was that the Soviet Union was going to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike on the USA. Many commentators in the West read his remarks in this way - they were wrong.

He MEANT exactly what Z has reported -- whether that report is the LITERAL TRUTH or not. Kruschev MEANT that Communism would inevitably "bury" Capitalism through workers' uprisings.

He was wrong, of course. Instead, it has effectively “buried” us through the incessant machinations of Cultural Marxists and the army of Useful Idiots” who have fallen for their wickedly seductive line of pernicious claptrap.

PLEASE don’t left leftists trip you up and deter you from your purpose with their noisome, incessant insistence that only the LITERAL truth could be true.

That is the same nonsensical, self-defeating use of pseudo-logic that lies at the heart of all religious fundamentalism. Marxism is after all just another “religion,” despite its militant secularity.

And now prepare yourselves for an all out assault on the idea that Communism -- or any system of hought and planned activity -- could be properly classified as a "religion," because to qualify as a "religion" the presence of a mythical, Super-Natural Being in Command is required.

Now what could possibly be more "mythical" or "super-natural" than the cockamamie notion that an artificially constructed system based on the figment of some filthy, old, bearded Jewish guy's wicked imagination could possibly lead all mankind to the creation of Heaven on Earth?

Ducky's here said...

@Beakerkin --- Somewhere, Mr Beamish has the official list of subjects Ducky has been proven a moron.

---
Oh stop,Beak.
Beamish is the heavy metal fan who thought a string quartet performed under a baton.

You're just upset that the Spankees are getting hella old and are in deep yogurt.

Z said...

Ducky, I want you to know I just wrote about a five paragraph retort to Shaw.
I deleted it because it was mean spirited and full of things about your Jew Bashing at Beak's and here, and other things, etc etc; I'm actually glad you've got someone who thinks you're a genius. I hope there are more than Shaw in your life.



Z said...

Ducky, I just saw Breathless' stuff at the link you supplied. If those are all yours, they're incredible.
Black/white is difficult and the contrast/sharpness is fantastic. And the subject matters are moving.
I really enjoyed seeing those photos..thanks.

Z said...

FT...you're right about the quotes.

The important thing is WHAT WAS SAID, no matter who said it. If that wasn't prophetic as to what's happening NOW, I don't know what is.

Easier to get into a discussion of "It was NOT Kruschev...!!!!!!!" than "Man, whoever said that was right....it's exactly what's happening now."

Typical leftwinger smoke screen...

beamish said...

The guy's a genius. All anyone has to do is look at who the people are that he so consistently and joyously drives crazy.

LOL! I find Ducky's lack of touch with reality - his constant bristling at being properly identified as a blithering idiot - to be humorous, like a cartoon.

No, cartoons don't "drive me crazy" either.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Great shot. I often see her around the neighborhood. You've captured her perfectly. Was that taken on Salem?

BTW, Boschetto's Bakery on Salem is closing, the family can't afford the increase in rent--118 years in North End. Best deep dish Sicilian pizza for a buck seventy-five and biscotti di regina in the N.E. WGBH interviewed some of their customers the other day. It'll be on Emily Rooney's show sometime. Don't know when.

Z said...

Please pray for the Boeing 607 crash at San Francisco Int'l airport which just happened.
The tail broke off and the plane landed upside down.
possibly 400 people aboard.
Rescue crews on the scene.

JonBerg said...

"Sam can't understand that billions on the planet are to his political left."

No wonder the World is so f......up!

beamish said...

Beamish is the heavy metal fan who thought a string quartet performed under a baton.

Or otherwise can't play a lick of anything without looking at directions. "Music" for the people who obediently move their lips and follow with their fingers when they read. Music performed by people who have never actually written music. Calling them "musicians" is like calling a boy who glued together a model airplane a "pilot."

Beakerkin does have it wrong though. There is no exhaustive list of subjects you're clueless about. But, a good rule of thumb is that if the topic isn't Soviet propaganda or gay porn, Ducky's out of his depth.







Impertinent said...

@Ducky:

"I'll stick to the camera.."


As well you should..tell me more about that nice portrait.

Impertinent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Impertinent said...

"the family can't afford the increase in rent-..."

And probably due to OSHA, the EPA, Sales Taxes and Obamacare mandate too?

Then there's those who refuse to eat such rich, hi carb, hi fat food any longer? You have to be brave today to eat such good food and not worry about your HDL's and LDL's!

Ducky's here said...

Yeah z, breathless 400 (combination of Godard and Truffaut) is me.

That's the world seen through the eyes of a far left devil. Whodathunkit.

Or maybe we all talk over out many similarities and common visions and concerns.

Impertinent said...

@Z:

B777 Ms. Z....

Impertinent said...

So far:


"An Asiana Boeing 777 coming in from Seoul, South Korea has crash landed at the San Francisco Airport.

According to numerous reports, the aircraft broke apart as it touched down on the runway. Its landing gear was down and the tail just broke off, flipping the plane, according to witnesses. Photos showed passengers being evacuated from a smoking plane.

ABC News is reporting 290 passengers were on board in addition to one infant and 12 crew members; no word so far on injuries or deaths.

Samsung executive David Eun, who was on board the filght, tweeted that "most everyone seems fine."

beamish said...

That's the world seen through the eyes of a far left devil. Whodathunkit.

Explains all the photos of young boys with their shirts off...

Ducky's here said...

Yeah, Shaw, I saw that Boschetto's would be closing.

Me, I generally go over to Modern's branch in Medford. They seem safe for the time being.

Ducky's here said...

@Imp --- As well you should..tell me more about that nice portrait.

-----
Not much to say, Imp. I use a Canon Rebel2 and generally a 50mm.

It was a hot, hot day and she was in the doorway trying to catch a breeze.
I asked her if she wanted a water from the convenience store. She said no and I snapped the photo.

beakerkin said...

Z

There actually is an official list of
subjects that Ducky has been proven ignorant. Mr B maintains the official list.

While the Duck teaches photography I perform much more valuable public service. I am spending more time mentoring peers. My trainees go on to serve the community and the Ducks work on Porn in Van Nuys or shoot the Heavy Metal videos Beamish watches.

Impertinent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Impertinent said...

@Ducky:

"I use a Canon Rebel2 and generally a 50mm..."


Any raw manipulation for the image? I use it...we all do....and you shoot the original in Adobe 1998 or RGB...no?

Z said...

beamish, trust me, I'm a fairly accomplished classical pianist and pretty good jazz singer but I've only written one melody down, and I am still considered a musician.
As are those in orchestras or string quartets. When you've worked as hard as a fine violinist or very fine pianist or clarinetist, or conductor, you're a musician.


Imp; click on Ducky's picture or the word BREATHLESS below that one portrait..the rest of the pix are even better.
And yes..Boeing 777 and it appears it did not land upside down; I heard the news pretty early on and I should be more careful before I repeat it, knowing how often things change when the smoke clears (literally and figuratively).
I'm hearing very little on injuries except burns...but the way it looks, I'd be surprised if there aren't fatalities unless those people got out before the worst flames started...they did have chutes out quite quickly, apparently. We almost had to go down chutes in England once...I was astonished at how calm I remained. So was Mr. Z :-)



DUCKY: Some day, you write to me what common visions and concerns we have. I'd like to talk about that. And do it without demeaning me for enjoying movies you find beneath you, for example.
And I do not believe far left devil leftwingers can't be talented in the arts. :-)


Ducky's here said...

Yeah, IMP, all praise to Adobe Lightroom.

Impertinent said...

@Ducky:

Ahhhhh....I hate Lightroom. Too bloated. I just work in the latest Bridge and use the raw panel in there.....works for me. I'm using CS4...since I still have a G5 PPC and it's still running after 8 years....I'm not going anywhere yet so long at this thing keeps running 24/7.

Impertinent said...

@Z:


I did Z...thanks..I browsed them all. I see Ducks "avatar" has a smoke dangling?

beamish said...

beamish, trust me, I'm a fairly accomplished classical pianist and pretty good jazz singer but I've only written one melody down, and I am still considered a musician.
As are those in orchestras or string quartets. When you've worked as hard as a fine violinist or very fine pianist or clarinetist, or conductor, you're a musician.


When you watch a play or movie or other acting performance, would be upset if the actor or actress read lines sans emotion from a notecard?

It's the same with music for me. If you can't play your instrument solo or with others without referring to tabs, you're not a musician, you're a hack.

Ducky's here said...

When you watch a play or movie or other acting performance, would be upset if the actor or actress read lines sans emotion

------
Watch much Bresson?

beamish said...

Watch much Bresson?

No/ I don't go gaga for jars of piss either.

You might say I appreciate art.

Z said...

beamish, have you ever heard an instrumentalist or singer perform without emotion?
I'd like to see that.........

beamish said...

Z,

Watching an instrumentalist flipping pages of tabs during a performance just tells me they're not familiar enough with the piece to play it from the heart.

beamish said...

I guess it's the same reason I'm not impressed when Obama reads someone else's words from a teleprompter.

FairWitness said...

Z, Ed says the pilots have some 'splaining to do. They came in too low & too short.

I sent you an email to your EarthLink acct, is it still active?

Z said...

EVERYBODY:

CNN and FOX have had nothing but the air crash news on for about 3 hours now...
When this happens, I always wonder that the world stands still and no news is worthy of talking about BUT a disaster.
odd

Ducky's here said...

Beamish, Bressson is a catholic, Jansenist film maker.

Try Diary of a Country Priest or A Man Escaped.

Z said...

beamish, your comments show me you haven't played an instrument enough to really know quite what goes on but you're certainly entitled to your own opinion anyway, I guess.
As accomplished a pianist as I've been, I have never been able to memorize worth beans. I could sight read literally anything.
What's a 'tab'?

FW, I will respond soon...I'm so sorry. I don't email as much as I used to! Thanks so much for sending it and I am thrilled with the success of your business!! really happy.

Waylon said...

I believe that quote from Kruschev has credibility. Although it would seem to be at odds with a later incident involving Kruschev and David Rockefeller that occurred in 1964.

"In 1964 David Rockefeller and Nikita Khrushchev were closeted in Moscow for two and a half hours. The Chicago Tribune of September 12, 1964, reported:

David Rockefeller ... briefed President Johnson today on his recent meeting with Premier Nikita 5. Khrushchev of Russia ... the Red leader said the United States and the Soviet Union " should do more trade." Khrushchev, according to Rockefeller, said he would like to see the United States extend long-term credits to the Russians.

As a matter of fact, the meeting between Rockefeller and Khrushchev had been held two months earlier, in July. Apparently whatever trouble had developed was not settled until the President was briefed in September. Within a month, Khrushchev was deposed. David Rockefeller was soon meeting on the Black Sea with his successor, and in October of 1966 L.B.J. announced his new policy of "building bridges" to Eastern Europe. This was at the time the Communists were escalating the Vietnam War, and virtually all of the war materiel to do so came from the ammunitions factories of Eastern Europe. It seemed politically incredible for Johnson to propose such a policy while American troops were being killed and maimed by ammunition and weapons from the Communist bloc. It would have been flabbergasting if one had not been following the machinations of David Rockefeller."

David Rockefeller visited the Kremlin and by way of coincidence Kruschev was replaced within days. That was before the ground breaking to establish a Rockefeller bank at One Karl Marx Plaza in Moscow (circa 1973) sort of coinciding with the great Nixon push to establish diplomatic and commercial relations with the Republic of China.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

Z - "When this happens, I always wonder that the world stands still and no news is worthy of talking about BUT a disaster."

I generally agree, but I'd rather they provide non-stop coverage of an actual event...rather than the sensationalism and drama, as they are with the Zimmerman trial.

The Way I See It said...

Michelle Obama visited the slave quarters when she was in Africa to show her children what the slaves went through ...
Personally I think that we're long past that time. It's over. Whitey's paid his due. Bringing up the fact that slaves served presidents is just rubbing the nation's nose it what "some people" including myself considers shameful. Just look at her. It makes my skin crawl to see such a person being first lady and another thing.. Is this the best that she can teach her children? Maybe we should have an anti-slavery week!.

FreeThinke said...

Hey, Z!

I'm so sorry about the air crash. Hadn't heard of it till you mentioned it here, but that's because the TV has been OFF all day.

You know, however, that ever since the beginning of CNN and 24-Hour "News" coverage, these news networks MUST have ONE THING to dwell on incessantly. It started with the OJ-Trial, which I thought would never end, and from then on in it has The OBSESSION of the DAY -- preferably the month or even the year.

Much as I detested the Clintons -- and still do -- didn't you get fed up sick-and-tired of ALL MONICA ALL THE TIME? I sure did.

TV trivializes everything.

OKAY! I'm off to watch KEY LARGO. I never miss a Bogart-Bacall film if I can help it. They capture and hold the MAGIC of a wonderful era for this country of ours. Movies and recordings are all we have left of my young years.

See ya!

Z said...

Waylon, yes, I saw that report today.
I think it's more pertinent WHAT was said than who said it, though the politics of Kruschev certainly play a role in that.
Thanks for the digging....I like clarity.

CI, I agree with you 100% about that.

The Way I See It...I do tend to think we need to move forward. I feel for people who will remain victims all their lives, in their minds.

FT..enjoy the movie! She is so beautiful, isn't she?
I think she'd have made the perfect Dagny Taggart for Atlas Shrugs.

Always On Watch said...

Z,
Lauren Bacall as Dagny Taggart? Perfect!

Ed Bonderenka said...

FT, I like this movie on so many levels.
But the scene where Bogie tells what happened to Barrymore's son to him and Bacall was very moving.

Kid said...

He WAS right and he wasn't early. It all started in earnest in 1963 after the ruskies murdered JFK.

Ducky's here said...

That would be when the Civil Rights Act was signed, correct, Kid?

Kid said...

I know for sure he said "our children would grow up communist". Used to be on youtube - not sure if it still is or not.

Kid said...

Duck, Research who pushed the Civil Rights Act of 64 through and who voted in majority FOR it and get back to us would ya?

And let us know when it actually originated and Who stuffed it back under the carpet please.

Tia.

Impertinent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Impertinent said...

@Kid:


I know...I know...

Strom Thurmond and Bobby Byrd??? Hmmm...please...am I right? Those two did everything they could as great gentlemen and honorable democrats to push the CRA through...yes...am I right?

Kid said...

Imp, Ding Ding Ding. Yes, it was the racist democrats of course.

Impertinent said...

@Kid....

oops....my bad...

"In opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1957, he conducted the longest filibuster ever by a lone senator, at 24 hours and 18 minutes in length, nonstop. In the 1960s, he opposed the civil rights legislation of 1964 and 1965 to end segregation and enforce the voting rights of African-American citizens.

He always insisted he had never been a racist, but was opposed to excessive federal authority, and he attributed the movement for integration to Communist agitators. In 1948, Thurmond stated:

All the laws of Washington and all the bayonets of the Army cannot force the Negro into our homes, into our schools, our churches and our places of recreation and amusement."

Kid said...

Imp, there ya go. And the black folks Love the dems. Just love em.

Z said...

AOW, you are the ONLY person who's see what I saw in Dagny! PERFECT LAUREN, right? I'm so glad you agree :-)
How's your eye???


Kid and Imp; I just can't imagine thinking about Black Americans like that....
And, of course, Dem Bobby Byrd was not only a Klansman but a recruiter for the Klan.

Still, I do believe in redemption and I don't believe they went to their graves as sniveling racists. I hope not.

Marine4Ever said...

Z -- Norman Thomas PUBLIC High School?!

Just when you think you've seen and heard it all.

Impertinent said...

@Z:

"I don't believe they went to their graves as sniveling racists.."

Really...you believe these politicians first and foremost weren't covering their asses and cushy positions and keeping their perks first?

They were lying sacks of shit until they were covered in dirt...no different than their successors in todays Congress.

There was no redemption at all...once a slave owner....always a democrat.

Ducky's here said...

Lauren Bacall was a solid New Deal Democrat.

Ayn Baby would have put the kibosh on that one.
I'm surprised she let Patricia Neal star in The Fountainhead.

Kid said...

Z, I agree with IMP.
I believe ALL politicians with less than .01% exception, are total self-gratification, agenda or downright imbeciles. Useful idiots as the story goes.

Z said...

Marine4, isn't that astonishing? Ya, I CALLED because I couldn't believe it was true.

Imp...I don't think all Democrats are racists because those in the Sixties didn't want to pass the Civil Rights Act.

Ducky, your disdain frankly pisses me off. Why can't you just talk without using name-calling and silly conjecture?
Millions revere Ayn Rand; because you don't doesn't give you the right to insult.

Kid; I hope you're wrong.
But you REALLY think that awful Bobby Byrd hated Black people all his life?

Kid said...

Z, byrd. Absolutely.

beamish said...

beamish, your comments show me you haven't played an instrument enough to really know quite what goes on but you're certainly entitled to your own opinion anyway, I guess.
As accomplished a pianist as I've been, I have never been able to memorize worth beans. I could sight read literally anything.
What's a 'tab'?


Tabulature - for sight reading ;)

I'm a drummer / percussionist (not accomplished, really) and electronic / synth junkie. On the one, there's no free hand to turn pages, on the other the computer does what I programmed it to do...

I'm not really dissing on musicians, but Ducky wants to rehash say Eric Clapton or Yngwie Malmsteen vs. the interchangeable very replaceable "talents" of page-flipping string quartets that play other people's stuff and rarely if ever their own.

beamish said...

Dem Bobby Byrd was not only a Klansman but a recruiter for the Klan.

And, there's evidence he was still active YEARS after he claimed he quit.

Always On Watch said...

Z,
I'm in for the long haul with this bout of iritis. It's been simmering at a low level for months.

Anonymous said...

Lets NOT forget that Whites stopped trading African slaves. Africans still do it!


"If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labeled a radical 60 years ago, a liberal 30 years ago and a racist today." Thomas Sowell

Average American said...

It doesn't really make a damned bit of difference who said it or what the exact words were. The bottom line is that SOMEONE said it and they were right on!! Any of you libbers who don't think so have your heads either buried in the sand or up your asses!

Ducky's here said...

@z --- And do it without demeaning me for enjoying movies you find beneath you, for example.

------
I've been defamed. This really hurts,z.

Just offhand I can remember pointing out that Hobson's Choice was back in print. Best role Laughton ever played.
I also know that we both enjoy American screwball comedy quite a bit.
Now it's true that I resist holding up American cinema as a nonpareil but it has certainly produced quite a bit of great work we would agree on.

Really, that hurt.

Ducky's here said...

@Beamish ... but Ducky wants to rehash say Eric Clapton or Yngwie Malmsteen

------
No I don't. Malmsteen's a stiff. I can just see you after a guitar performance, Beamish, Wow, that guy's fast. Not really sufficient to judge a performance great.
Why not try speed, well developed harmonic lines, inventive dynamics and clean notes. That's right, pick up a Pepe Romero disc or similar guitarist. Blow Malmsteen off the freaking bandstand.

Clapton is fine but he hardly deserves the place in the panthenon many give him. He's a talented guitarist but is he in a class with Segovia, Julian Bream, Paco De Lucia, Django Reinhardt, Djelimady Tounkara etc. etc.
I know, you haven't heard most of those cats but trust me.

You really need widen your experience.
Wow, that guy is really fast

Z said...

Hobson's Choice...man, I LOVE THAT MOVIE so much I could watch it twice in one day, I swear. There's nothing I don't love about that movie.

But, Ducky, though you and I probably agree on most films (actually, I don't at all like screwball comedies..which did I say I liked? I might have; do you remember?), you've slammed other peoples' taste here and that's just silly. Slamming someone's taste isn't kosher.

I don't like films like SOME LIKE IT HOT or THE APARTMENT or Martin and Lewis films (Shiver)...or even ARSENIC AND OLD LACE... the two first ones I mention are SO not the genre I like.

I saw a Netflix film I ordered today which had an ending I thought was possibly THE worst ending EVER: it's a French film called FAREWELL, MY QUEEN.
It does show a sort of interesting interface between Marie Antoinette and her ladies in waiting but to imply she was a lesbian is nuts and cheap. If she was, fine, but ..REALLY? I think the film had to 'go there' to get any interest at all.
I don't have to have an ending that's tied in a bow and pretty , etc., but this one left me cold. I couldn't believe that WAS the end...very unsatisfying film.

Kid said...

Z, Speaking of which have you seen 'The Professional' ? What a great movie.

Z said...

Kid, just ordered it on Netflix..thanks!

Ducky's here said...

... and here I thought we were both Carole Lombard fans, z.

Z said...

Ducky...I'm lukewarm on her type of film but love Lombard.
I do love a film that's a melodramatic love story with Kay Francis and Cary Grant...I have forgotten the name. It's a trifle but it's sweet and I LOVE her in it.
I'm not fond of her madcap stuff where her voice is always high pitched and wild...like MY MAN GODFREY.

Kid said...

Z, Cary Grant. Outside of North by Northwest, it's a shame he was featured in all those abstract comedies. Imagine what they could do with his character today or even a few decades ago.

My Lucky was pretty good now that I think about it but those were the only two.

Z said...

kid, no! He made GREAT films!
I loved BACHELOR AND THE BOBBY SOXER...and i can't remember ONE other right now, but I mostly love his movies...except the madcap ones! :-)

Ducky's here said...

Notorious.

Kid said...

Z, Ok, I either did not see them all or don't remember but yes the madcap ones were far beneath his talent and potential as a character.

Like casting Sean Connery as Charlie Chaplin

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