Wednesday, July 17, 2013

YOU help us understand Martin/Zimmerman reactions.......please.

I'm surprised and saddened by the reactions of both sides of the Zimmerman/Martin case.

I just heard Juan Williams tell Sean Hannity and Black leftwing attorney Leo Terell that "this jury failed because it didn't bring their feelings into the verdict...that's why we have juries." (I paraphrase but got the gist of it, believe me).  In other words, if you feel badly that this Black kid died, how could his shooter not be guilty?

THIS showed me an astonishing lack of understanding of our legal system and I can't help but wonder if this kind of thinking has played a large part in the outrage over the verdict.

Please, someone, if RACISM is something you still believe played a part in the unfortunate killing, tell us how;  show us that George Zimmerman was a racist.  Add links, please.   To you others who have heard about Zimmerman's activism for young Black kids, please provide those links here.  Thanks.

To those of you who believe Trayvon "deserved to die," tell us why.  And, do you mean he deserved to die before the situation or because of his apparent starting of the tussle?

And, to those of you who feel Trayvon's mother was coached in her calm reaction to the verdict, do you also believe Zimmerman was coached in his astonishing lack of apparent emotion upon learning he wasn't guilty?

I literally ache for our country when I see people willingly not believing what expert testimony tells them.
I ache for those Blacks who honestly think America's racist because a Hispanic guy was so fearful for his life that a gun came out of his pocket and a young Black kid was shot.

Help me here.

Z


125 comments:

Always On Watch said...

Z,
I call your attention to THIS ESSAY as one possible explanation. Final portion of the essay, but the entire essay is worth reading:

It’s 2013 and what is going on now will INCREASE DIVISION, not end ignorance among those cretins who still think like it’s 1957 in Mississippi:

All 10,000 or 100,000 or so of them, wherever they are hiding from the sight of Americans living in 2013.

But hey, it’s a distraction from the IRS, Benghazi, NSA, the UTTER and complete failure of presidential policy in the middle east, the Nork ship the that left Russia turned off it's tracking device, went to Cuba and was headed back to Norkland with BALLISTIC MISSILES hidden under sugar, and rioted when seized by Panama.

Always On Watch said...

Did white folks riot when OJ's verdict was not guilty?

Heroes Are Ordinary Men Who Do Extraordinary Things in Extraordinary Times said...

Rather than respect the verdict of the Zimmerman trial and Zimmerman's Constitutional right to protect himself; our tyrannical president is continuing to attempt to infringe upon law abiding citizens' gun rights with statements like this:

The President's Quote:
"We should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence that claims too many lives across this country on a daily basis. We should ask ourselves, as individuals and as a society, how we can prevent future tragedies like this. As citizens, that's a job for all of us. That's the way to honor Trayvon Martin."

My question to Our Dear Leader... You're not judgmental, now are you?

More importantly, How about honoring the Benghazi four with some honest answers, Mr. President...


Philip Gordon said...

“George Zimmerman to Got His Gun Back” - ABC News
Well thanks to the idiots who can’t respect the jury’s verdict, and the bleeding heart liberals running wild in the streets, and the death threats that he has been getting. He needs it more now then ever.
Suck on it libtards.
Instead of Obama’s stupid speeches and his phoney Gun Control excuses, What we really need is more Americans like Zimmerman to stop thugs like Trayvon Martin..

Dave Miller said...

AOW... No they did not. But allow a little reflection...

After the Rodney King beatings, a group of white policemen were tried and found not guilty on Los Angeles. This was known as the Stacy Koon trial. When the verdict was announced, many conservative, and yes white commenters defended the decision, despite the videotape, by saying people were not in the courtroom, did not hear and see all the evidence, and as such, were unqualified to judge whether a fair verdict had been rendered.

People unhappy with the verdict were told to trust the system.

Fast forward to the OJ verdict you mentioned. While whites did not riot, suddenly they abandoned their trust in the system. Why weren't whites and conservatives defending the verdict as they did in the Stacy Koon trial?

Many people saw the change in response in racial terms.

Now we hearing that again, we need to trust the system.

Under the law in Florida, this was a hard case to prove. But to ignore the variances in responses, and only focus on one aspect of how whites and many conservatives reacted to three of these trials would miss a lot of inconsistencies...

Dave Miller said...

Z, I wasn't there but I keep coming back to this... why did Zimmerman get out of his car after police told him to stand down? What crime did he witness Martin committing that night that was so grievous that warranted his immediate action rather than waiting for the police?

Were his actions preemptive?

Always On Watch said...

Madness!

I'm Ashamed to Wear U.S. Flag
Says Black Olympic Boxer


and

Dozens Of Trayvon Martin Supporters Call For Beheading Of George Zimmerman

Always On Watch said...

Dave,
Why weren't whites and conservatives defending the verdict as they did in the Stacy Koon trial

Actually, many did.

The OJ verdict was in 1995, the Rodney King verdict in 1992.

We are now living in 2013.

why did Zimmerman get out of his car after police told him to stand down?

To determine the street address?

To see where Martin was going? Those sidewalks that Martin was walking on were behind the housing units, and more than one unit had been burglarized via access from those back sidewalks.

Didn't Zimmerman go back to his car/truck?

Why was Trayvon Martin at his father's house in the first place. Trayvon Martin didn't live there but rather with his mother, who lived in Miami?

Why aren't the mainstream media dwelling on the fact of Zimmerman's black ancestry? What has he been labeled "a white Hispanic"?

Why did the prosecution pursue charges that the prosecution could not prove by the EVIDENCE?

Florida's Stand Your Ground Law was not the factor resulting in Zimmerman's acquittal. Self-defense was, and the concept of self-defense goes back at lesat 1,000 years.

Always On Watch said...

MSNBC’s Michael Eric Dyson: More White Kids Need To Die In Order For Americans To Understand Racism:

“So now we get more approximate to the truth of what race is in this country. As for Eric Holder, look: the reality is you gotta act now. The president, you won the second term. You’re in office. You are ensconced. Do something courageous, bold, and helpful. Not only to African American people but to America. Because unless we do this, white Americans and others will feel that this was a justifiable verdict, this is how things happen. Not until, and unless, the number of white kids die that approximate the numbers of black and other kids who die, will America see. It’s beyond logic. It’s about rationality. It’s about let’s get something done. I think the attorney general will look at this and I think it’s time for him to act.”

Marine4Ever said...

Sorry Z. I admit that I read no further after the Juan Williams quote that "this jury failed because it didn't bring their feelings into the verdict...that's why we have juries."

Bring FEELINGS into a verdict?!

It's been my understanding that a jury is made of those who can put their FEELINGS aside and examine only the FACTS.

From experience, I can tell you that not once have I been chosen for jury duty. I'm not bragging about it -- I'm attempting to show that BOTH sides of the case realize the danger that I pose BECAUSE OF my FEELINGS.

And the left is in awe of why we have such animosity toward them.

Philip Gordon said...

Hey Everyone
My name is Phil, I’m new to this game here, I am a staunch Conservative Patriotic American with very little if any tolerance for Liberals.

I'd like to answer Dave Miller who said:why did Zimmerman get out of his car after police told him to stand down?"

Hey Mr. Miller, Zimmerman was NOT on trial for "Getting out of his car" Lets not play the IF game.

Always On Watch said...

What if?

Always On Watch said...

Huh?

Jimmy Carter: George Zimmerman jury ‘right’

Ed Bonderenka said...

Juan williams thinks the verdict was correct,, but without compassion.
That's a conversation stopper.
You can't fix stupid.
@Dave: "the police" did not tell him to "stand down". Stick to the facts.
That's part of the problem.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Trayvon deserved to die.
He earned it.
Not for being black.
Attack someone and threaten their life, give them no recourse, you've brought it on yourself.
Define deserve. Had it coming.

Ducky's here said...

The most cogent aspect of this case is that it wasn't going to be prosecuted at all.
Some incompetent local chief of police asks Zimmerman a few questions and that was going to be the end of it until the public outcry.

By then the DNA evidence and other forensics couldn't be analyzed (as the forensic specialist testified) and there was little more than Zimmerman's word which is gospel to some.

No, there wasn't enough evidence to convict on a second degree murder count. Yes, there is evidence that Zimmerman had a history of calling in watch reports on blacks only.

And we will NEVER KNOW the details of that confrontation.

Another opinion heard

Extreme, yes. But I think The Wire was a brilliant analysis of the sociopolitics of the ghetto.

Ducky's here said...

@Ed B -- Trayvon deserved to die.
He earned it.

----
Stunning but more honest than the rest.

Always On Watch said...

Duck,
there wasn't enough evidence to convict on a second degree murder count

Just as in the Lizzie Borden case, huh?

Mustang said...

@ Dave

I would ask you to stop repeating the inaccurate and downright misleading stories in the press or televised media. On the stand, under oath, the police dispatcher testified that when Zimmerman told him, “He (Martin) has disappeared. I can’t see him,” the dispatcher responded with, “Where did he go?” Zimmerman assumed that the dispatcher was asking him to “find out” where the suspect went … which is why he followed him around the building.

sue hanes said...


Z - I see a man with a gun who was just supposed to report anything happening who got out of his vehicle and ended up shooting an unarmed young man.

I don't get it - why he had to shoot him. I don't think he should have been found not guilty.

Mustang said...

@ Ducky

We know a few things about this case. First, Zimmerman has a good cause to sue the state of Florida for malicious prosecution. Second, there is justifiable cause to charge the state attorney with unethical conduct. If anyone deserves disbarment, it is Angela Corey, a Republican. Third, Zimmerman was legally entitled to defend himself against violent assault.

Let me add to this that I am also ashamed that David Simon is an American, and equally embarrassed that you, Ducky, are a fucking idiot.

FrogBurger said...

This whole story makes me sick to my stomach and angry. I don't even want to participate in it b/c all it does is further split this country apart. One incident and sorry to say this but the media is stirring the merde and milking the cow as much as they can. Sickening.

Marine4Ever said...

BTW, I'm saddened (and not at all surprised) that the lame stream media kept using pictures like the ones at the top of this post.

JonBerg said...

"feelings"

I wonder how Zimmerman was FEELING as his head was being bashed against concrete?

Robert Sinclair said...

Splitting this country apart is exactly what the left intends to do, Frogburger. I’m shocked you don’t already know this. Remember: never let a good crisis go to waste. First, you need a good crisis —so what you do is this: pressure the state’s governor into prosecuting Zimmerman. Next, send a team down to Florida to organize demonstrations against the defendant; no more innocent until proven guilty in this country, no sir.

Of course, once the jury does the inconvenient thing, the right thing, as it turns out, and acquits Zimmerman, then it becomes necessary to send the word out through Al Sharpton to riot and destroy other people’s property. I’m certain you can see the relationship between the Zimmerman trial and Wal-Mart, right?

You see, it doesn’t take much to get the little monkeys all riled up—screeching, hitting others, burning down neighborhoods, and then once this happens, it is always possible to claim that Americans are cowards because they refuse to have an honest dialogue on racism in America. But in spite of what the attorney general says, Americans must never give in to the bullies. We must never cower under our beds. If that means killing thugs, then that is what we should do.

conservativesonfire said...

If instead of the photo of Trayvon at twelve years that is always shown by the media, people could see this photo at seventeen, I think many presumptions of people would change.

http://totus-blog.blogspot.com/2013/07/meet-real-trayvon-martin.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Totus+%28Totus%29&utm_content=Yahoo%21+Mail

Marine4Ever said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Marine4Ever said...

@ Sue Hanes, "I don't get it - why he had to shoot him."

Because, like JonBerg said, Zimmerman was getting his head bashed against the concrete. It's just one of those little facts of life, Sue. When you feel your life -- or someone else's life -- is in danger, lethal force is justified (at least in Texas and, evidently, in Florida.) Period.

@ Robert S -- You go, Robert!

Sam Huntington said...

@ COF

I do not believe the picture displayed at that website is that of Trayvon Martin. I was looking for his autopsy photographs to see if any of the tattoos are present, but cannot find one. Imagine that, the internet is developing some sense of propriety.

As for the child picture, that is simply leftist dishonesty. Martin dwarfed Zimmerman by several inches, and at the time of his timely and well-deserved death, I think Martin outweighed Zimmerman.

@Sue ... you need to move away from LA-LA-Land.

Marine4Ever said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Marine4Ever said...

@ Mustang -- "... you, Ducky, are a fucking idiot."

Nuff said.

Well, maybe NOT REALLY, but it'll do for the time being.

Lisa said...

It was stated by a black witness that Zimmerman was screaming for help. I also blame the media for leaving out facts of Trayvon Martin's past ,particularly his arrest record for burglary.
Nobody deserves to die for "looking suspicious" but that is not why he got shot. The media would have you believe that the 'White' Hispanic got out of his car guns a blazing when in reality Martin was the aggressor here. He was mounted on GZ's chest which was compressing his lungs and he was also choking on blood from the broken nose Martin gave him(he was unable to breathe). I believe this whole incident is a tragedy and I also believe GZ would be the one dead had he not shot Martin. I do not believe he intended to kill him, it was a gun going off in the heat of a moment and unfortunately hit him in the heart. GZ was most likely limited to his aim,being he was in survival mode.

Ed Bonderenka said...

A highly intelligent point of view on the radio (if I do say so myself) about our "National Conversation":
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41339180/National%20Conversation.mp3

Louis H. said...

We do not have a racial problem in America. We have a leftist problem.

Divine Theatre said...

Hi GUYS!

My accounts were hacked. I'm back now! Yay!
I believe George Zimmerman did not respond with relief because, ultimately, he killed another human being. I cannot IMAGINE how he feels. His response did not seem to register immediately.
So many hateful people so willing to follow the false narrative the media (and the president and DOJ) set up...so many people want him dead and some are willing to complete the deed.
I am not ashamed to admit that I have studied this case from day one. There is so much falsehood being spewed by the PR company his scheme team hired.
His mother did not even raise him, Alicia Stanley did. His father started cheating on Alicia four years ago, he is still married to her. Alicia and her sister (a stripper with a long rap sheet) live together in the home Trayvon was staying at when he was killed.
Trayvon's life became so unstable in the last two years before his death. While his dad was at strip clubs and hanging out with his Crip buddies (did you note the tattoo change?), Trayvon was left to his own devices. Also note that when he visited his "real" mother she treated him as if he were not there. Go look at the "family" photos and note how Trayvon is never part of the family.
I'm rambling, I know.
Ultimately, Trayvon's anger and resentment led to poor decision making that went unchecked. He made a final decision to attack George and it cost him his life.
Further, Barack had an opportunity to open a dialogue and he chose to politicize Trayvon's death instead. he never mentioned George and his rights in his statement.
It's all so ugly and convoluted. There have already been multiple attacks on whites that are not being reported by the MSM.
I hope Barack is happy. Actually, I KNOW he is.

Lisa said...

Like what you had to say Andie(DT) will respond later. Hope all is well

FrogBurger said...

Splitting this country apart is exactly what the left intends to do, Frogburger. I’m shocked you don’t already know this.

It's not just the left. It's all the people making money and ratings using things like this. The left doesn't even do it out of principles. They just make money too.

Trials should not be on TV and everything should stay in the courtroom. Even jurors are now at risk.

It's pretty sad.

Z said...

Thanks, AOW......A lot of people think this has been yet another crisis not allowed to go to waste.
We all heard Obama mention guns a day after the verdict and you've all seen Holder speaking to the Black sorority and the NAACP yesterday; they couldn't have better timing.
Yes, an ambassador died but, what the heck............:-) How awful.
If white kids start dying, we can thank Dyson. UNBELIEVABLE.

No, white folks did NOT riot when OJ was not guilty. They most certainly did not.


I'll read all the comments better later..I've got to go;

But I will say to DIVINE THEATER: Andie, you are so right.
Thanks for having down the homework BEFORE commenting.

WHAT I SEE HERE IS THAT PEOPLE SIMPLY DIDN'T HEAR MUCH OF THE TRIAL AND ARE BELIEVING LEFTWING MEDIA ARTICLES/COMMENTARIES WHICH HAVE IT SO WRONG ON SO MANY POINTS.

I COULD SAY THIS CHEERS ME UP BECAUSE THE HATE TOWARD THIS VERDICT IS OBVIOUSLY NOT INFORMED........BUT I GUESS IT BOTHERS ME, TOO, BECAUSE SO MANY INTRICACIES WERE MENTIONED IN THIS CASE THAT I'VE ALWAYS BEEN NERVOUS ABOUT PUTTING DOWN ANYTHING HERE THAT I WASN'T SURE OF, EVEN EMAILING FRIENDS AND GOOGLING BEFORE COMMENTING........AND SO MANY, EVEN HERE LET ALONE THE PROTESTORS THE LAST FEW DAYS.......ARE SO SURE OF MISTAKEN INFORMATION.

Not sure what to say. how can we argue differences in facts? I don't want to.

And DIVINE THEATRE, you are SO right. I believe, too, that he didn't respond because a life was still taken. As a matter of fact, the testimony was that GZ was a wreck when he first told the cops that this kid was dead. He KILLED someone and didn't mean to...who amongst YOU would be happy or proud?

Louis..that is the most succinct, true, short comment I've had here on the subject. Bravo, Monsieur.

Ed, I don't think Juan thought the decision correct more than LEGAL, do you?

Marine4Ever said...

@ Louis -- I left the below here because the dude really got to me.

"@ Anonymous -- Sorry, bud, I don't see it that way at all. Some of my best friends are black Americans. I use 'black' to differentiate between my 'red,' 'yellow,' 'white' and 'polka dot' American friends. The only thing I hate is the hyphenated American part that everyone uses. I'm of Scotch-Irish-English descent but I'm not a Scotch-Irish-English-white-AMERICAN. I am an AMERICAN.

"That said, there's a helluva lot of black persons I'd rather be with than a whole lot of white trash I've had to put up with.

"We were doing pretty well in our race relations until Bathhouse Barry, his handler and toadies came along. I estimate that they've managed (in less than four years) to set us back, at the minimum, 60 years."

FreeThinke said...

Rodney King was a worthless piece of human detritus, Dave. His behavior after receiving more than a million dollars in "compensation" from the City of Los Angeles proved that beyond the shadow of a doubt. Rodney King was TRASH.

He deserved every bit of ill treatment he got. It's too bad he wasn't KILLED in the situation that made his name famous. It would have saved the taxpayers ENORMOUS sums of money.

This country is DESTROYING ITSELF, because of this absurd obsession with RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE.

As I said yesterday, and many many times before, "It is not the color of anyone's skin that matters, it's they way they BEHAVE."

The only reason such a huge percentage of "young black males" are in jail is NOT because of "racism," but because their BEHAVIOR is VIOLENTLY ANTI-SOCIAL.

In the names of "FAIRNESS", "SOCIAL JUSTICE," "EQUALITY" and "CIVIL RIGHTS," we have become far too tolerant and accepting of ROTTEN BEHAVIOR.

Bad is Bad and being BLACK does not make it GOOD.

FreeThinke said...

Andie!!! It's so good to see you again. I hope you will start posting at your blog very soon? You've been missed.

Your good sense and kind way of putting things is alway refreshing.

I am just so FED UP with this not-very-important subject I could SPIT. :-c bad of me, I guess, but honesty is the best policy, so I'm being honest.

Crappy people are just NOT worth THAT much of our time and attention, and that's what the enemedia does -- it takes our attention away from all things edifying and wastes it by dwelling on CRAP.

The enemedia is nothing more than a perpetual FECES FESTIVAL.

Rita said...

Dispatcher (not a POLICE OFFICER): Are you following him?

Zimmerman: Yeah.

Dispatcher: We don't need of to do that.

Zimmerman: Okay.

NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT ZIMMERMAN DIDN'T "obey " a statement made by the dispatcher.

None.

It amazes me the millions of Monday Morning Prosecutors who didn't watch the case repeat the same lies the MSM want you to believe.

No evidence he wasn't heading back to his truck. He was out of it when he called.

And there no legal duty to not follow someone just because the dispatcher said they didn't NEED him to do that.

The dispatcher also continued to ask where Martin was.

Numerous break ins in the neighborhood including one home invasion of a young mother who hid upstairs while two young black men robbed her home.

The entire situation is tragic however I would rather have Zimmerman as my neighbor any day over a young guy who had been expelled from school, caught with marijuana and stolen property.

Martin was looking for trouble, Zimmerman just happened to be unfortunate enough to get caught up in what was going to be Martin's future career. Drugs fighting and stealing.

cube said...

Someone better inform Juan Williams that juries are supposed to decide a verdict on the facts of the case and not their feelings.

I was surprised by the clip I saw of Leo Terrel's reaction.

FrogBurger said...

Guys I understand you're pissed off but there's way too much anger today. Sometimes it's better to let things settle.

Bob said...

Ducky's here said...

" The most cogent aspect of this case is that it wasn't going to be prosecuted at all."

The world is starting to spin off its axis. I agree with Ducky (partially). Like many others, I believe that the preliminary (first) investigations were inadequate from a public information point of view. The police chief knew he was jumping into a big pile of poop, and there was no way he was going to get out of the situation of a young, black man getting killed without some problems.

Zimmerman should not have been prosecuted, but the investigations needed to be loud and long for the public consumption. All the facts about Trayvon's past, Zimmerman's and Trayvon's movements, and phone conversations should have become public knowledge as a result of the investigations. Once again, full transparency inspite of any court action should have been the byword.

I have strong feelings about the legal theory (and fact) that potential jury members can be biased by the news. So what? If you choose reasonably intelligent adults for a jury, they are perfectly capable of finding the facts and making the proper judgement.

Bob said...

No matter what the facts are, or what we think, the Federal Government is out to get George Zimmerman at any cost. The Civil Rights division of the Department of Justice is already publishing email and telephone numbers for people to report anything they know about Zimmerman.

The important thing is the Obama Administration narrative, not justice or truth. So, we need combat this kind of political use of our justice system, and get rid of our altogether political and racist attorney general. Oh, the same goes for our racist President, also.

Darth Bacon said...

And Stevie (not so) Wonder. Said he will never entertain in Florida. Again!

How shocking, a d who gives a crisp! I think that Florida can live without him... I know that I can.

Z said...

Marine4: You said "That said, there's a helluva lot of black persons I'd rather be with than a whole lot of white trash I've had to put up with.."
I don't know a lot of white trash but, in general, I have ALWAYS said "Give me a nice white person and a nice black person, I'll hang with the nice black person".. Don't know why, that's just how I feel. I rarely meet a Black person I don't REALLY like...

Rita...I hope you had a moment to read my comment above about the amazing disinformation anti-verdict people have. And they're OUTRAGED with so little information, imagine? And imagine people suggesting GZ shouldn't have noticed someone who was doing exactly what he was supposed to catch..someone looking around the back of condos, aimless in the RAIN?

Bob...are you SERIOUS about phones and emails by which to turn info on Zimmerman into? ARE YOU SERIOUS? This is the STASSI in East Germany. I'm stunned.
And where is the left when this is happening? They're good with that? WOW.

I have to admit I had trouble following your comments a little, but think I disagree with you on the early days and those who felt it wasn't worth prosecuting. They can only go on precedent and it didn't look like anything BUT self defense. a GRAND JURY was also called, I believe? And dismissed.
Because of PRESSURE, not the LAW.

MANY very good lawyers feel this should never have got as far as a trial. (p.s. They are not racists)

Z said...

Darth, ya..I heard that. STAND YOUR GROUND ticks him off; which was no part of this trial, of course.
Funny, because a lot of states have STAND YOUR GROUND...I guess his bank account won't suffer, so........

FreeThinke, I think this is one of THE most important subjects of our day. When leftwingers won't respect a court of law, as Mark O'Mara said (I paraphrase) "I fear for a country whose people aren't going by the verdict...what law comes after that?"...

Then we have our government getting people to turn in information on GZ? If that ISN'T the Stassi, I don't know WHAT IS.

We are in big trouble with Holder; more than I'd thought. He gave his testimony about his childhood and I saw why Holder and Obama don't have any outward signs of love OR respect for America. Nobody told them.
Now they can't figure out what makes Conservatives tick; they are simply confused. Why would ANYBODY love this countrY?

I've been sure that's how they think and it's being proven on a daily basis.

Scotty said...

Ducky's here said...
The most cogent aspect of this case is that it wasn't going to be prosecuted at all.
Some incompetent local chief of police asks Zimmerman a few questions and that was going to be the end of it until the public outcry


I'll try and educate you again, Ducky, pay attention now.

George Zimmer PASSED a polygraph upon questioning about the events of that night. The FBI investigated the case and found no grounds for racism and any need to pursue the case any further.

So it wasn't a matter of a police chief just asking a few question. Statements like that make you look like and idiot.

Rumor had it that there were going to be charges of manslaughter brought in the case....(I'll tell you why is a sec). But then outsiders got involved. The mayor of Sanford was a coward when he forced the issue of the police chief resigning.

It had everything to do with political pressure not about the chief's competency.

Often time during cases like this one, manslaughter charges are sought.

Enforcement agencies often do this as a matter of CYA, forcing a Grand Jury to make the decision as to whether there is enough merit to bring a case to trial.

The Grand Jury was bypassed and it needed not to go any further than the Grand Jury.

I find interesting that people like you seem to know better than a jury, a jury that was presented the facts in this case, and insist on bringing up issues that have little to do with facts.

Ed Bonderenka said...

@cube:
Leo got a little excitable there.
I know how he feels.

Z said...

Scotty...it's amazing, the hubris; so many know better than the law or those who sat there for days and listened to expert testimony.

Terell ROCKED...he was SO angry and I think we ALL understand his fever. What was shocking is that he is such a leftwinger but was so right on this one.
And even Jimmuh Cartduh? WHO KNEW?

I think some people in this country still do understand that a court trial and verdict is hallowed.

Z said...

Also, Sharpton and Holder are still screeching against STAND YOUR GROUND but anybody who listened to any of the news knew this wasn't a case of stand your ground.
unreal

Anonymous said...

An actual conversation heard while standing in line at the grocery store today:

Female 1: He need to be found guilty. No one need to be chasing down some kid just cuz he be holding m&ms(she meant skittles of course).

Girl I tell you its a sad world when little kids get shot in the chest and head jus cuz they be black. What even need decided?

He done shot that kid 4 times all the neighbors saw him do it, all while Trayvon was begging him to stop! And this white boy got the nerve to say self defense? I mean he wuz a little kid!
Probably not even 12 years old by the look of him. Lord Jesus I be praying that God let justice be served!

Female 2-I know, I heard Trayvon screaming for his life in dat 911 call. He shouldnt have even got outta da car.

But he did, but he did! He got out, 911 operator screaming at him not to do anything saying ova and ova “don’t hurt thag child” and this dude then said(lowers her voice to sound menacing) “no Im sick of them n******, hes dead!” Then he hung up. A minute later Trayvon be dead?

Shot all those times jus cuz he black. This Jury better be smart. If they be stupid a whole lotta brothas gonna be shooting their ass up!

F-1- For sure, for sure. They be stupid and Im gonna take some shots too. Sad. Its sad when a little boy is killed, shot 5 times(forgot earlier she said 4) cuz he black.

Actual conversation, recorded due to the fact I could not believe what I was hearing.

Ducky's here said...

"So many hateful people so willing to follow the false narrative the media (and the president and DOJ) set up ..."
-----
And in what way is it false?

If you didn't consult a medium of some sort how did you learn "the truth"?

Do you believe the chief of police was correct not to conduct an investigation?

Do you agree with Ed that Martin deserved to die (we can guess the reason)?

Just curious.

Ducky's here said...

No Scotty, he was given a voice stress analysis, not a lie detector test.
Not nearly as reliable.

JonBerg said...

Anon.......

They sound quite indicative of typical Obama voters. They multiply-we lose; all of us!

Bob said...

Z said...
"Bob...are you SERIOUS about phones and emails by which to turn info on Zimmerman into? ARE YOU SERIOUS? This is the STASSI in East Germany. I'm stunned."

See link below. I read it some place other than Fox News, but Fox picked it up, too. The difference is that I read that the DOJ had advertised a telephone number, too. You are right. It is time to call a Nazi a Nazi. Or is it STASSI?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/17/doj-seeking-tips-in-zimmerman-probe/

Bob said...

Blogger Ducky's here said...

"So many hateful people so willing to follow the false narrative the media (and the president and DOJ) set up ..."
-----
And in what way is it false?


The answer to your question, Ducky, is that neither the President or the main stream media have acknowledged the facts in the case. You need to work on your logic. Debate demands facts, and you are operating without.

Without facts, you are just speculating, or indulging in your favorite sport of gutter-snipping.

Sam Huntington said...

@ Anon

The people you describe are a creation of the American left ... and do not for one moment think that the American left is not exceedingly proud of their creation. Destroying America one ill-educated nitwit at a time ... irrespective of race.

You know, like Ducky.

Ducky's here said...

... neither the President or the main stream media have acknowledged the facts in the case. You need to work on your logic."

---
Beg the question much, Bob?

Bob said...

Z said...
" Bob...

I have to admit I had trouble following your comments a little, but think I disagree with you on the early days and those who felt it wasn't worth prosecuting. They can only go on precedent and it didn't look like anything BUT self defense. a GRAND JURY was also called, I believe? And dismissed.
"

OK. I get it. I did not articulate very well, Z.

In Atlanta (and most other cities in the South) killing a kid is a big thing, especially if the kid is black. Black people got the crappy end of the stick for so long, that it seems they expect bad and unfair treatment to continue. That is inescapable.

However, police departments are so in tune to racial undertones of their jobs, that if anybody gets shot, the incident is investigated not only by the local police, but many times the state cops (Georgia Bureau of Investigation) are called in. Plus, it is common for the FBI to be involved.

Apparently, nothing like this happened in Sanford, Florida. With any gunshot death, it is becoming more and more important for more than one agency to investigate if only for CYA reasons.

This is where the police chief in Sanford was wrong. He did his job, but not everybody believed it. If he had called in the state cops, things would have turned out the same, but without the acrimonious trial.

Ducky's here said...

Okay, Bob, let's examine the "facts" of the case. We can take an example provided by Scotty. Zimmerman took a lie detector test.
No he didn't, it was not a lie detector test.

Now, is that statement of value without knowing the questions that were asked? Of course not.

In fact he was asked subjective questions like "Did you confront Martin". Just what does confront mean in this case and can Zimmerman be convinced that his behavior regardless wasn't confrontational?

This is just to demonstrate that this case is not straightforward and rather than consider details most here are with Ed Bonderenka, "He deserved to be killed."

Bob said...

ucky's here said...

... neither the President or the main stream media have acknowledged the facts in the case. You need to work on your logic."

---
Beg the question much, Bob?

I like that. I don't know how many times I have listed the facts of the Trayvon/Zimmerman confrontation, but I have.

Let me bring you into the discussion with an irrefutable fact upon which the whole case depends. Trayvon was the aggressor. Period. This is the only reason for a self-defense plea.

Neither the President, the Attorney General, nor the main stream media are highlighting this fact. Without this fact, Zimmerman would have been convicted of something.

Trayvon made a fateful decision while talking to his girl friend that night while in his Dad's Girlfriend's backyard. He decided to attack a creepy ass cracker. It was a bad decision, but it was his, alone. He was set on depriving the civil rights of George Zimmerman to protect his property and person.

Where are your facts.

Scotty said...

" Ducky's here said...
No Scotty, he was given a voice stress analysis, not a lie detector test.


Zimmerman Passed Lie Detector Test.

Using what you said, even THAT proves that more than just a "few" questions were asked.

Ed Bonderenka said...

@Ducky:
"Do you agree with Ed that Martin deserved to die (we can guess the reason)?"
If you can't read, then I suppose you must guess.
I clearly said:
"Not for being black.
Attack someone and threaten their life, give them no recourse, you've brought it on yourself."
He chose to attack an armed man and try to beat him to what extreme we can only guess.
If Trayvon hadn't died he might have been tried for murder himself.
Are you the jerk everyone claims you are or are you capable of saying that perhaps you misread what I said?

Marine4Ever said...

@ Bob -- Frustrating, ain't it?

Z said...

Look, everyone;

DUCKY KNOWS BETTER than all the lawyers, all the expert witnesses, all the people who, beforehand, saw this as a non-trial situation, all the families involved, all of the jury..and all of you.

give it up. Just bow to the greatness and PLEASE encourage him to contact Florida and settle this whole situation.

Thanks.

Pris said...

Sue, when you are on a jury, you must deal with the evidence and testimony which is convincing and backs up the facts of the case.

If Zimmerman did not have a gun, he is the one who may be dead today! He is not the one who began the physical assault. How many times would his head have been crashed onto the concrete before he no longer could respond in his own defense.

If Martin had run off, he'd be alive today, wouldn't he? Unfortunately, he chose not to.

Impertinent said...

@Ducky:

Just what do you intend to accomplish here with your constant badgering, hyperbole, reiterating assumptions, suppositions and erroneous information?

You will not change anything about the outcome of that trial..PERIOD.

I do hope that the Martins launch a civil suit though...where all the pertinent information that was withheld from the defense wil see the light of day. And that is...Daddy filed a "missing person"" report on Trayvon. That Mom had washed her hands of this 'kid". And that Dad surely wasn't supervising Trayvon while he had him in custody. Maybe dad's criminal history will come out along with sonny's too...like father like son?

Get over it and now attend the Boston Bomber's trial to make certain he's set free.

Marine4Ever said...

@ Z --

Bwahaha... (I don't think it's gonna happen. Remember... YOU started it!) Bwahaha!

Louis H. said...

Dans la peur, nous devons tous répondre à notre Créateur. Dans mon cas, mon Dieu. Ducky est le cas, Dieu seul le sait.

Z said...

Marine4! I STARTED IT?? WHAT?

You're not going to blame Trayvon's death on ME now, ARE YOU!? :-)

Might as well.....there'd be about the same evidence proving once and for all that I DID IT as there is that GZ meant to kill Trayvon!

Marine4Ever said...

@ Z -- There... I knew it... I JUST KNEW YOU DID IT!

@ Louis -- Yes, God only knows. Bientôt?

Louis H. said...

Une dernière chose à prier pour, oui?

Marine4Ever said...

@ Louis -- Oui... OUI!

Z said...

Marine4...tu parles Francais? tres bien!

Louis...exactament..

Impertinent said...

@Louis H:


Je prie pour Ducky tout le temps!

Baysider said...

Bob is right. The DOJ has set up an email tip line to troll for a civil rights case against Zimmerman. I guess they don’t talk to the FBI?

Juan Williams -- what tripe! Of course that’s NOT how we decide cases. Yet, I recall Dennis Prager hearing either a California supreme court or 9th circuit justice say that the role of a judge is to see social justice is done. Uh-oh. There’s that feelin’ kind of thing creeping in. ‘The little guy is in the wrong, but we feel sorry for him, so we can throw out the law.’

I can’t imagine there wasn’t some discussion about keeping reactions under control for the principals. Wouldn’t that be prudent with everything so scripted now, and anyone can make a video that will come back to bite you?

I feel terribly for all the parents. I can only imagine the trauma in the Martin family over having a gangster wannabe skating into trouble. With 1 young black man in 4 going through the penal system, that leaves 3 out of 4 who ‘make it.’ Time and luck gave them good odds their boy might come out OK in 6-8 years.

On the other hand ... when an enraged man who is significantly bigger than me comes charging at me I can’t let myself think about all that. Especially when he has me down on the ground pounding the living daylights out of me, and I have no way to escape.

The miracle is that Zimmerman didn’t fire sooner. At some point the light has to switch on, ‘it’s him or me.’ Would I be thinking ‘he has to die?’ No. I’d be thinking ‘he has to be stopped in his tracks right now.’ At that point Martin put himself in mortal danger by forcing an uncompromising response from his victim.

You know, the police conducted a 'challenge' interview with Zimmerman. They were trying to see if they could get him to change his story. They told him (falsely) that some video had surfaced that caught the whole thing. Know what he said? Thank God!

Marine4Ever said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Marine4Ever said...

@ Imp and Louis -- Bwahaha! (That's French for 'Bwahaha!')

Marine4Ever said...

@ Baysider -- Well said, my friend. VERY WELL SAID!

Marine4Ever said...

@ Z -- Je ne vous ai pas attraper dans le temps, Z. Désolé!

Tôi thường nói chuyện bằng tiếng Việt. Yeah ... đúng.

Impertinent said...

@Baysider:

"a California supreme court or 9th circuit justice say that the role of a judge is to see social justice is done..."

This my friends is the basis for Sharia "law"...it's bullshit, unconstitutional, illegal and smacks of Naziism, Marxism and anti 3rd, 4th and 5th Amendment protections of that "tired old, living piece of parchment....THE CONSTITUTION!!

Lisa said...

I liked your comment alot Divine. It really speaks to the main problem in the black community today. Unfortunately it doesn't serve Al Sharpton and those on the left to address those issues so he has to use every incident to divide because they have nothing else. So where he should be "tending to his flock",he turns them into wolves. And I agree I am sure Obama is sitting back smirkingly watching this thing unravel just like dictators do in some South American Countries. This administration seems to thrive on good crisis'

Impertinent said...

@Marine 4...

I'm with ya bud....


Tôi cũng đã có một số tri thức cơ bản về điều này từ lâu!

Marine4Ever said...

@ Imp -- My sentiments from 5:04AM this date! How they can come up with this... AARRGGHH!... and call themselves Americans, is beyond me!

AARRGGHH!

Marine4Ever said...

@ Imp -- "Tôi cũng đã có một số tri thức cơ bản về điều này từ lâu!"

Tôi quá! Đó là lý do tại sao tôi là khá nhiều điên!

beamish said...

Please, someone, if RACISM is something you still believe played a part in the unfortunate killing, tell us how; show us that George Zimmerman was a racist. Add links, please. To you others who have heard about Zimmerman's activism for young Black kids, please provide those links here. Thanks.

I think most 21st Century accusations of "racism" barely rise to the level of absurd. The flippant use of the charge has rendered it boring in most cases. Zimmerman's own mother is half-Hispanic / half black, which makes him half as black as Barack Obama.

As for links about Zimmerman's impeccable credentials on race (as if his blended bloodlines weren't enough) read about his past actions against actuak racism here.

To those of you who believe Trayvon "deserved to die," tell us why. And, do you mean he deserved to die before the situation or because of his apparent starting of the tussle?

I think Trayvon Martin's death is merely incidental to the situation. Zimmerman might have shot him in the knee or hip / pelvis or other incapacitating but ultimately non-lethal body area. Given more defensive firearms training, Zimmerman might have done this. But I have no problem with him taking the shot whatsoever. Had he done it with one of Eric Holder's Fast and Furious guns, we wouldn't even be hearing about it.

And, to those of you who feel Trayvon's mother was coached in her calm reaction to the verdict, do you also believe Zimmerman was coached in his astonishing lack of apparent emotion upon learning he wasn't guilty?

I think George Zimmerman's reaction to being found "not guilty" was precisely the same reaction someone should have upon being told the sky is blue. "Well, duh."

Bob said...

ucky's here said...

Okay, Bob, let's examine the "facts" of the case. We can take an example provided by Scotty. Zimmerman took a lie detector test.
No he didn't, it was not a lie detector test.

Now, is that statement of value without knowing the questions that were asked? Of course not.


Ducky, I will let you and Scotty hammer out whether there was a real lie detector or not. I agree that if we don't know the questions asked, we are speculating about that one thing.

However, we still cannot get beyond the fact that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. That is the watershed event, the action that took the confrontation to a higher level.

Before that event, both individuals had opportunities to walk away. Such a tragedy, and I mourn for Trayvon.

The President along with other race-baiting fellow travelers, are misleading the public with the idea that the real issue is "stand your ground" laws. The trial and the facts have nothing to do with this. Therefore, the Obama Administration is guilty of putting forth information with the intention to mislead. Lying.

Impertinent said...

@Marine 4...


Funny.

beamish said...

why did Zimmerman get out of his car after police told him to stand down?

The proper response to such an "order" is "f*ck you and your horse."

Regardless, GZ was already out of his truck and following TM when the dispatcher (who was not a cop, nor an authority figure whatsoever) said "you don't need to do that" - which isn't even an command.


Impertinent said...

@Beamish..

"I think George Zimmerman's reaction to being found "not guilty" was precisely the same reaction someone should have upon being told the sky is blue. "Well, duh.""


Damn..that's it...that was spot on. But the stupid libs think he should have jumped for joy? From the beginning GZ was surprised and remorseful that the "kid" died. He didn't even know that initially.

Impertinent said...

@beamish:

""you don't need to do that"

This is one of the biggest nuts for the no info morons to understand. The 911 dispatcher TESTIFIED UNDER OATH...that they weren't allowed to issue "orders" due to simple liabilities.

They all say he was "ordered" to remain put...and for the 10 millionth time...the dipsticks still don't get it.

Hmmm...maybe that's good for when the civilian camp guards order the morons into the box cars...they'll comply like sheep they are. Herd mentality and all.

beamish said...

This is one of the biggest nuts for the no info morons to understand. The 911 dispatcher TESTIFIED UNDER OATH...that they weren't allowed to issue "orders" due to simple liabilities.

Even if it were God Himself answering 911 calls that night, and He were barking direct orders "do not follow that guy at all period full stop," Zimmerman would have had no legal obligation to "obey."

Hmmm...maybe that's good for when the civilian camp guards order the morons into the box cars...they'll comply like sheep they are. Herd mentality and all.

Just another example among the countless of why it's fundamentally absurd to consider leftists capable of rational thought, even in jest.

Zimmerman's more polite than I'd be in the situation though. I'd totally be suing the Martins for the cost of the bullet used.

viburnum said...

Understanding the verdict IMO comes down to this.

Who they were, what color they were, and how they got to that juncture doesn't really matter. What matters is that when your head is being hammered against a concrete sidewalk, and your life could well be endangered, you have an unequivocal right to defend yourself.

Rita said...

All those nut jobs who claim Zimmerman "murdered" Martin needs to have some young strong MMA 17 yo "kid" hit them in the nose, straddle them and then pound their heads into the pavement.

Eyewitness testimony Martin was in top and pummeling Zimmerman.

How many times should someone allow themselves to have their heads pounded into the pavement before the liberal idiots will believe they would be justified in saving their own life the only way they had available?

If Zimmerman was a simple racist out to kill a little boy, why didn't he just shoot him after he was sucker punched in the nose?

In my opinion Zimmerman showed restraint. Listen to the screams. They played them over and over in court. Martin was in top, why would HE be screaming help when he was known for loving a fight. That part was NOT allowed in evidence. The state HID from the defense that Martin had text messages in his phone that talked about getting in fights.

That was discussed in the hearing outside of the jury that lasted until 10 pm late in the trial. I watched it online.

Those screams are chilling. They sound like someone screaming for their life.

I want these lib idiots to be in Zimmerman's spot that night.

It was clearly self defense. Yet idiots like Steve Wonder still spew their ignorance about Stand Your Ground.

Wasn't part of the case. Whenever you hear anyone talk about that, they are either ignorant or just plain lying.

Impertinent said...

@beamish:

" I'd totally be suing the Martins for the cost of the bullet used."

Harsh...harsh beam...but I'll tell you this...since both "patents" abandoned this "kid"..and let this young man on his own without supervision and allowed him to become a fooking thug...I'd want to be reimbursed too...out of the millions they stand to make from this newly commissioned... version 3.0 "saint" of the very uncivil rights movement and by the race bustards...9MM's are expensive...thanks Nappy the big sis...Oh and Obummer. Damn right I'm stocking up. Being threatened by the media who goads the beasts to start riots?

Impertinent said...

@Rita:

"How many times should someone allow themselves to have their heads pounded into the pavement..."

As many times as it takes....good damn riddance. But what I'd like to see is one of these kumquats demonstrate it on MSNBC or CNN...by Morgan,Perry or Cooper...and I'd like to see it especially done by... Sharpton do it live. He's already brain dead so it couldn't hurt.

Kid said...

Many Black people don't accept White Law.

Z said...

beamish, stop with the suing for the bullets again. I'd hate for you to keep typing and having everything need deletion. And it does.

This is my blog and there is a limit to the kind of talk here.

Thanks

Z said...

Kid, well YOU threw in a curve ball!

Let's see what this gets :-)

Jack Whyte said...

@ Kid

Well, then it must be selective obedience because they sure do accept white law when it results in lots of other people's cash in their pockets.

Bob said...

Only since the Zimmerman trial have I seen Al Sharpton. It has been some time since I have noticed him on tv.

The other night I was shocked when I saw him. He looks like he has lost about 100 pounds. He was ugly in the first place, but now he is so ugly that if his mother would have known, she would abort him retroactively.

Is Al Sharpton a cancer patient? Man! Is he ever ugly.

Kid said...

@Bob - Not cancer Monsieur, a 35 year old girlfriend

Kid said...

@Jack Whyte, Yes, but I'm concentrating on the other side of that coin.

BetteJo said...

Z - the only way I can say everything I FEEL about this, is by linking to my post. It's not specifically about the trial, but more about race relations and the stance I almost feel forced to take these days.

http://beingbettejo.blogspot.com/2013/07/oh-hell-no.html

JonBerg said...

Is there a stauration point to this?

Marine4Ever said...

@ JB -- Oh, about the time when another Obimbo crisis comes along. We're overdue for one right now. I'm shutting down on this one. I think it's been pretty well ground into hamburger.

Marine4Ever said...

@ Kid -- why does Al's head look out of proportion to his body? I mean, other than that?

Kid said...

@M4E, why does it have to be "other than that" ?

hahahaaa

Z said...

well, Kid, I'm SURE the good reverend isn't up to any shenanigans with that girl who's so much younger than he is. I'm SURE he's a father figure to her, right?

I have seen him recently and realized he'd become very thin but it's more than that...it's like he's malformed.
But, at least he finally killed that 'flip' hairdo, remember?

But, whatever...he's a terrible hater and race baiter, thin or not......

Mustang said...

Should we give everyone a teaser for tomorrow, Z?

Marine4Ever said...

@ Z And Kid -- So I was right? He really is deformed? I mean other than that.

christian soldier said...

for race baiters of the ilke of sharpton-j.jackson--
to answer your question---

FOLLOW THE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Carol-CS

Kid said...

M4E, he's been deformed from birth imho.

Marine4Ever said...

But really, Kid, his head is bigger than it should be, right? It's not the camera. Can't be, 'cause there's two different shots of him and his squeeze and his head is funny looking. I never saw it before. Or, maybe, I've never really seen a picture of him. Maybe he's got a stand-in and it was the stand-in's night off?

Always On Watch said...

Louis H. brings up an crucial point:

We do not have a racial problem in America. We have a leftist problem.

Always On Watch said...

Andie,
You have provided a font of barely-mentioned information about Trayvon Martin. Thanks!

Always On Watch said...

FT said: In the names of "FAIRNESS", "SOCIAL JUSTICE," "EQUALITY" and "CIVIL RIGHTS," we have become far too tolerant and accepting of ROTTEN BEHAVIOR.

Bad is Bad and being BLACK does not make it GOOD.


I say: AMEN!

Impertinent said...

At 16 years old...Sugar Ray Leonard gave his opponent such a beating that he wasn't allowed to continue in the trials and never boxed again.!!

And he was only 5'10"...not 6'2'!

Enough said about a 16 y/o fighting abilities? At 17..he only got better.

beamish said...

How many times should someone allow themselves to have their heads pounded into the pavement before the liberal idiots will believe they would be justified in saving their own life the only way they had available?

You're not seriously suggesting a leftist could relate to the threat of brain damage, are you? Really presumes without evidence that they have a brain to damage.

beamish said...

beamish, stop with the suing for the bullets again. I'd hate for you to keep typing and having everything need deletion. And it does.

You're right. Zimmerman should totally have a beer summit with the Black Panthers who have a $10,000 bounty on his head. Maybe send flowers and candy to the Martins. Definitely bend over for Al Sharpton.

What was I thinking?

beamish said...

There, that's better.

Rita said...

My bad Beamish.