Saturday, December 21, 2013

"Bush reached across the aisle....

..............and got his fingers chewed off,"  they say about President George W. Bush when he attempted to work with the other party.    Reagan and Tip O'Neil worked well together, both showing respect even when they differed.  Clinton did quite well with the economy because he worked with the Republicans.  The Lewinsky affair didn't help his relationship with the Republicans, but it wasn't near as divisive as it is now. 

Tell me, what ONE THING do you think really drew the line in the sand between the Democrats and Republicans?  You could say it's become worse and worse over time but, suddenly, it's so bad that nothing's getting done and the rhetoric is painful. 

What do you think the Democrats and Republicans disagree with THE MOST:  the one thing they could NEVER see eye to eye with?  

And do you think we can ever come to an impasse and get things done for the good of the country again?



Steve Sek said...

Obama is the Worst President ever. He's a liar and should NOT be blaming Bush again.. He's just a simple liar who has deceived many.Enough is enough! He is a joke.This is the worst presidency in years ... He cannot be trusted........ This presidency has been way over his head for years now. He can never give a straight answer. Always excuses to problems and never solutions.
And now he goes to Hawaii on vacation. I am working today, taking tomorrow to go to church and spend time with my family AT HOME, Monday I will work if the weather permits, Tuesday I will work as the weather forecasters indicate the wet will blow out on Monday afternoon, Wednesday I will not work- have a family day and celebrate Christmas, then Thurs, Fri, and sat will be back working again.
I wonder how much I will have to pay, or my children will have to pay for this trip for him and his entourage...I thought that a leader led by example!onder how much I will have to pay, or my children will have to pay for this trip for him and his entourage...I thought that a leader led by example!
I did not voted for him . I know things are get worse and worse. . Everything are get bad and more guns to kills people and children . More Gangs are growing stronger . Malls and Shopping mall , theater, train stations, Game room , Golf putt-putt / games room ,warehouses, factories, playgrounds, food shopping centers, men clothes stores, shoes factories , bread factory, book stores are more and more razed and lost business. I dont know if Obama want to have USA dry up in USA and Look very poor in USA and Other countries will get more rich , More and more Mexican people work . How we understand them without ENGLISH ? I can see more and more LITTERS and mess . Nothing look nice . Nothing clean. I have next door who are worse mess . Miss cut grass and more litter and loud music rest of night and drunk and play pool games and smoke a lot . I notice people do not want work and they get paid . Laziest people get paid . it is not right!!

Crusader Frank said...

My greatest concern is raising the dept limit again and again.--that is irresponsible and reckless to the future of our children and grandchildren,--the financial stability of the United States is being compromised right in front of our eyes every day. People seem not to understand that the debt limit increases are big increases
in spending which one party makes noises about controlling and the other party
says "Keep on spending!" Truly it will be the end of America.

Dave Miller said...

The meeting with GOP leadership during the inaugural parties in which they decided upon a policy of obstruction of the Obama presidency, no matter the issue.

Literally, before he took office, the minority party had decided on a policy to vote no and to oppose anything Pres Obama proposed.

They decided that night that no matter what, they would not negotiate or try to work with him, even when he offered policies or plans that previously had been designed by and supported by the GOP.

Duckys here said...

It started in earnest with Newt Gingrich and The Contract on America.

Then you got the high theater of the impeachment.

The Republican roadblock reached its pinnacle when Jim DeMint (R - Mouth breather) put a veto on every piece of legislation in the Senate during Obama's first term.

But it started with Gingrich. They went after Clinton even though he was giving them the deregulation of the financial system and the framework for its subsequent collapse. The Republican piggies just wanted more.

Anonymous said...

And so the Blame Game has continued! Well after the Marxist In Chief has been in office (almost 5 years) By reading the last two comments above mine we can see that the USUAL suspects have continued throwing the same old BS .

It's no wonder we find the continued hatred and contempt for liberals.

BTW,I don't hate liberals.
I just want them to stop taking my money and interfering in my life. That's all.

sue hanes said...

Z - I would say Obamacare.

Yes - I do think the Democrats and Republicans could get along if they tried. And I think they will. It's just a matter of time.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Duck. Nice try. DeMint (R-no cute slur) and any Republican that would oppose the crap Pelosi and Reid were shoving down our collective throat could only be blamed by someone with a vision in opposition to the principles this country was founded on.

Elmers Brother said...

The results and subsequent controversy of the 2000 election

The2ndAmendment said...

The far left is not capable of taking responsibility for themselves that is what they call Progressive!
It's always someone elses fault. The Buck doesn't stop here when you are a Marxist President. Obama wants all the credit when things work out such as (he killed Bin Laden!) , and none of the blame when they don't. Next we'll be told Obamacare is Bush's fault!.
Obamacare is a disaster. Unequivocally. Obama has no excuse for its poor launch. He never wants to take the blame for anything he or his administration screws up.

Political Junky said...

Sorry Mr. Obama and all you nut-jobs who followed him, but you failed. At this point, Obama owns this war, lock, stock and barrel.
Note also that more US military personal have died in Afghanistan under Obama that under Bush's watch.
Note also that the agreement Obama wants Karzai to sign will keep US troops in Afghanistan until 2024!!!!
umm "US troops in Afghanistan until 2024!!" where have I heard that before?
But the At this point, Obama owns this war, lock, stock and barrel.
Note also that more US military personal have died in Afghanistan under Obama that under Bush's watch.
Note also that the agreement Obama wants Karzai to sign will keep US troops in Afghanistan until 2024!!!! Mr. Noble Peace Prize said he would end both wars. He doesn't get a pass by me nor should it be given by you.
ummmmm "US troops in Afghanistan until 2024!!" where have I heard that before? But he Sheeple, the Kool-aide drinkers on the Left like the Progressive blooging idiots still are loyal to this disastrous inept Socialist Ceratin.

Z said...

Steve Sek; It's a new America, and not a better one, I fear. I'm sorry you have to work through Christmas week and hope your one day is a blessed one. We used to be mostly a country of people who wouldn't leave the mess you're talking about...we had anti-littering slogans when it seemed necessary. It's new Americans here and new problems they bring from their countries.

Crusader; how they can keep spending is astonishing. I hope the homes of libs aren't run that way.

Dave, I'd love to hear more about that meeting. My information is that most Republicans weren't invited to the inauguration festivities and they left for sunnier climes.
By the way; could you consider that Democrats don't have parties celebrating how they can help Republicans during Republican inauguration? When I read what you call information, I tend to remember the media and how they'd never expose what Democrats might have done during Republican administrations.

And, by the way? Were I a Republican and paid closer attention to the campaigns of Obama and the lies about Ayers, the treatment of Joe the Plumber (all of that's forgotten now by the media, but we still hear about Mr. Bush's getting off the booze himself, and not in a congratulatory way), I'd have worked hard to stop the plans Obama had for this country, too.
And, loook...I'd have been right.

Ducky; so glad there aren't any Democrat "piggies" :-)

So, instead of your realizing how hard Democrats push and get thru what they want as they depend heavily on demonizing the "hateful, racist, bigoted, nasty Republicans", this is all to blame on the republicans? ok.

Ed,,,exactly what I meant above. Thanks for that, and thanks for trying to keep the tenor a little higher, not using the insults as Ducky always does.
The harder he tries and the nastier the terms, I worry about him.

Elbro: I think that was certainly a VERY hard time. I think ANY election in the future will hold challenges of illegality, unfairness, etc. Remember there was talk of bringing Haitian vote watchers HERE? I'm not sure most Americans understood how huge a signal that sent to Americans and the world. The greatness is OVER...

But, remember, very few Democrat insurrections get discussed in the media...and if people try, they are demonized, even when video shows the truth. This will be a tough one; it's always the bad ol' GOP now and people actually buy that, with a snicker of agreement. Completely uneducated, but "gee, if we don't go along, maybe our goodies will go, too"

My Cons Thoughts: I'm never quite sure why Dems whine we won't work with them when, every time the Republicans have, it's said "they haven't offered anything.."

All the comments today are good and sad.

Political Junky, I must say that one would have expected the Leftwingers to be at ARMS (pardon the unintended pun) about the war continuing...they voted for him again. And, instead of bringing our boys home, they're cutting benefits. And very few Democrats are joining Republicans in calling that an outrage.

Bob said...

I see Dave and Ducky have their blame machines in full attack mode. The problem is that they are making their arguments on false premises.

Sure, the GOP guys meet all the time to decide what they can do. In the case of the Obama administration, it was clear that O's path was Socialism, and anybody with half a brain would go against that failed nineteenth century philosophy.

If Dave and Ducky were honest, they would remember during Obama's first term, the Democrats controlled both houses of the Congress, and would not hear of any Republican plans, or ideas. The GOP knew this, and had to plan accordingly for the good of the nation.

On the other hand, you might remember that the Dems under Bush, Pelosi and Reid opposed EVERYTHING, and stalled on every Republican initiative except the War in Afghanistan and the War in Iraq. Yep. They voted for all that.

The reality is that Reid is an empty suit, and the only thing he understands is power, and how to attack people. You will note that it is a cold day in Hell when anything truthful or intelligent passes the lips of Reid or Pelosi.

Back to the current GOP. If they had been allowed input into the ACA, Obama would not be in such trouble, now. There were several alternate plans, and still are that would actually work. My Congressman, Tom Price, has made several offers of help to the Dems with ideas that would work. But, helping people is not in the Democrat lexicon.

Remember, the reason for ACA is redistribution of wealth in service of buying votes. That's the Democrat way.

Everybody pays more with Obama Care. Everybody gets less with Obama Care. Everybody gets lower quality health care with Obama Care.

With Obama, everybody loses.

Bob said...

"If Dave and Ducky were honest,..."

Uh,oh! I didn't intend to say that Dave and Ducky are dishonest, or are purposeful liars. I was just trying to adjust their horizons to the truth of the context of the statements.

Sorry, guys.

Sam Huntington said...

We should be grateful that the leftists comment here so frequently; it gives us the unique experience of seeing how their mind works, however defective. These commentaries do make you wonder though; can anyone really be so stupid? Obviously, the answer is yes. Take for example Dave Miller’s arcane comment about obstructing Obama’s presidency. Well, yes … that’s what political opposition means, you moron. But don’t act as if this is something unique to the evil GOP. Did congressional democrats bedevil Bush in his last two years, even after Bush transformed kissing communist ass into an art form? Did congressional republicans oppose Clinton? Did Congressional democrats oppose Reagan? Did Democrats dupe Bush the Elder into increasing taxes, after he promised that he wouldn’t? Such is the cycle. My New Years resolution suggestions for Dave Miller are: if you can’t get a clue, try working on your intellectual honesty.

As for Ducky … he exhibits stupidity as part of a long tradition.

Z said...

Bob and Sam....thank you so much.
Bob, this is largely what I mean about the media; No, people don't get reminded about the Democrats' pulling stuff like that, but let someone mention Bush and it's "no holds barred..including "he was a drunk"'

Or let Republicans disagree and "obstruct" (their word, not mind...and an excellently effective word for the public, by the way) Obama and it's hell to pay in the media and constant verbal abuse by Reid and Pelosi. You describe it so well.

Sam, it's why I don't go on moderation in comments; I want people here so we CAN hear what they say on the left.
The other day LIberalmann suggested that we like White Christmas because it's anti Black...truly, he did. I leave those comments. We must learn from them.

Mostly, we need to start working on a media, ALL cable and ALL networks and newspapers included, which tells THE TRUTH, not the White House meme. A meeting that barely got covered happened just after the inauguration; I remember hearing it once and then it disappeared in the news.....Obama had hired a lot of powerful leftwing news producers to work for him and I can't say they
are not still working there, or somewhere, for him because he gets some really effective rhetoric flying. Very smart, powerful.

"Obstructionists" "Party of NO", etc etc...You think Obama dreams that stuff up? Ya, right. (wrong)

JonBerg said...

"do you think we can ever come to an impasse and get things done for the good of the country again?" (I think this was meant to say [overcome an impasse])

Not unless and until there is a consensus as to what "good of the country" means. When I observe the "US Debt Clock" all I see is debt and unfunded liabilities expanding at warp speed (>$133,500,000,000,000, 5 minutes ago). While the Republicans are far from blameless, in that regard, the mere fact that the likes of B.O., Pelosi, Reid, et al, of that ilk, hold the offices that they do speaks volumes about the destructive path that we are headed on. It is particularly distressing that an incompetent, communist can get elected to the highest office of this Nation, TWICE! I don't see how our young and future generations will avoid immeasurable hardship, even If we started turning things around tomorrow. Unless the intent is just to be provocative, the inane ramblings of a couple of commenters on this thread, indicate the obliviousness to reality that may seal our doom (I'm sure that you don't know who you are)!

Dave Miller said...

Z... I could of course supply links, but folks here would quickly dismiss them as out of hand because of the sources.

No one though could produce one shred of evidence that those meetings did not happen.

And yes, I certainly agree that Dems don't dance and celebrate when the GOP wins elections. But evidence shows that when they do, at least in the past, the Dems have been more willing to work with them.

Bob, I don't know why answering Z's question is seen as attacking. Is there only one answer and anything apart from that is an attack?

Ducky and I could be 100% wrong, but there were no attacks in what we offered. Although Ducky posited a little more snark.

Let me ask you guys... when the Dems are in the minority one day, what would be a better method to govern... a stance that says the GOP won and the people have spoken so the Dems should work hard to govern together, negotiating, as Tip did, or a strategy that says everyone in the party must vote 100% against any and all major legislation?

Many here are quick to point out that we live in a democracy so our leaders should represent the will of the people.

How should a senator, or congressman vote if the will of the people he represents, of the country, are in direct violation of his personal principles?
You cited Tip O'Neill, that's a famous example. Can you name a similar person on the GOP side since Reagan took office?

During the Bush Admin, up until late 2005, GW Bush could frequently count on at least some Dems voting with him. It was not until he decided on privatizing Social Security that the Dems finally said no.

His signature law, to expand Medicare, an expansion of the government run health care system for seniors was passed with Dem votes in both the House and the Senate. And then Dems worked alongside the GOP to improve and legislate the typical fixes that follow all laws.

Yet the signature legislation of the Clinton Admin, the Budget Recon of 1993 was passed without a single GOP vote in either house. Of course we all know the ACA was passed in the house without a single GOP vote.

Has the GOP offered to work with the Dems to improve and legislate the typical fixes that follow such large laws?

You asked for an opinion on where the current tension has come from... I just offered my opinion. I am not commenting on the good, or bad of any of this legislation

JonBerg said...

" the ACA was passed in the house without a single GOP vote."

Let's not forget that as the worms crawl out of the can!

Z said...

Yes, they have offered, but we hear it for six seconds, and it goes away from the mainstream media. To suggest there are no attempts at weighing in on the ACA, for example, is just not true. "Period"

I think we've reached an impasse and Dave hits on it, sort of:

Until both sides represent the best for AMERICA and standing by her constitution, we will never agree on much.
We can't, for example, change bills that were already voted upon in a certain makeup just because we feel like it, like this president is doing.
Even Democrats are apparently not happy about that.
Even Chris Matthews is famous now for having said this president does not reach out and how disturbing that was even to Matthews, one of Obama's biggest heroes.

We have leftwingers who believe socialism is not redistribution; where does one go after that?
The world is never going to have equality; there will ALWAYS be poor amongst us but it is our covenant to try to improve that out of the generosity of our hearts and pockets, not via Caesar.

The Democrats offer bills we can't read "but we'll like when we know what's in them"... this isn't American, Dave. It just plain is not.
We have a president who literally vocally slams FOX, calling it not really news. That's unprecedented.
Can you come up with a Democrat as willing to work with the GOP as O'Neil was? Other than Moynihan?

You see, in those days, everyone had the good of America at heart...patriotism, etc. Today, it's about getting votes; encouraging the poor to vote, even picking them up in buses and promises of better lives, even cheating and sending people around voting in several places, as I've witnessed and reported on several times here at GeeeeZ.

We encouraged folks to come here and be part of the dream and we STILL DO, but we're labeled as xenophobic if we suggest they might do better if they speak English.

I could go on here for hours..but I have a big party to go to this evening and plenty to prepare for and quite a drive there and back.

Am delighted and perplexed at your rosy picture of how the leftwing painted Bush and helped him so much; you know, Bush the 'monkey', the 'drunk' the 'idiot'.......

I'll try to come back via another computer later on.

have a great day.

Z said...

JB, thanks for that reminder.

perhaps the GOP DIDN'T LIKE THE ACA ONE BIT AND THEIR CONSTITUENTS DIDN'T, that OBSTRUCTIONIST??? They couldn't READ the damned thing in time!!!..why can't the Democrats understand we don't vote FOR things we don't like just because they do?

exactly right, JonBerg.

Baysider said...

It seems the chief divide is between thinking you can take care of yourself, or need someone to take care of you. So much mischief follows from there. So that one side's highest value is freedom/liberty, and the other's is equality. I could make lots of caveats about how we are very generous in looking after the misfortunate (much more than THEY who trumpet the gov't's role). You get the point.

Can we overcome the impasse? I'm doubtful. We used to have a general consensus about the size and purpose of the federal government, with public consensus for limited government and balanced finances. Both houses 'worked' together in a fashion, under this umbrella. We had a federalist system where congress represented the people by popular vote, the senate represented states by equal and indirect vote, and an executive provided leadership.

Once the senate was tied to popular direction election, federalism went down the tube, and the federal budget became an instrument for fueling or stunting the growth of the state, we lost all that. Unless we all agree to have big, unlimited government, or restrained government we will never 'get along' because it is a de factor civil war.

Unlimited Leviathan is trying to break out of a constitutional structure of a limited state. One 'side' is giving it sledgehammers and fire axes to do so, and the other is trying to contain it, a la Steve McQueen in 'The Blob.'

The impasse keeps a full-out implosion at bay. A good thing.

Duckys here said...

The chief divide is this:

We absolutely do not understand each other and the air is so toxic that there is little hope or inducement to do so.

Impertinent said...


You sound as if you're describing the cold war or our relations with the NK's or Cuba or any other rogue government.

Are you suggesting then, since you see the rift as irretrievable and broke ( philosophically and politically ) that the country would be better off physically divided?

Personally, I'd like to live among like minded people...and not have to fear that one half of the country sees me as a terrorist, unpatriotic, racist, homophobe, islamophobe, murderer, extremist, Nazi's, fundamentalist, bagger, nuts and so forth.

It's clear to me that the left wing of the country really hates conservatives and would welcome our imprisonment or demise. Hates our values, religion and families, patriotism and duty to ourselves and country.

Z said...

Baysider, I'm here getting ready to leave and it hit me that I've something on my mind I needed to add here and you kind of brush on it; very well, I might add, thank you.




What it IS is even LESS American, LESS constitution-observing, LESS for humanity in the way it strips people of dignity through taking choices and freedom from them. Yes, even if it's freedom to FAIL, to be POOR.

The Right is supposedly everything bad..and the far right is just badder..

the Left, we're supposed to swallow, is everything good and the far left is just that much gooder, so to speak.

You see what I'm saying. And you might agree that this has a lot to do with the media, late night talk show host politics, the constant "we're SO MUCH BETTER" rubbish we all here on a daily basis.

Oh! And the left, though some are fairly well educated and know better, hang the FASCIST handle on the Right! You and I are just an inch from NAZISM, don't you see for being Republicans? rubbish.
FASICSM is just as LEFTIST as it is anything RIGHTWING...

Check this out:
The only official definition of Fascism comes from Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, in which he outlines three principles of a fascist philosophy.
1."Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.
2."Nothing outside the state". The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.
3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.

Obviously, parts of that are a bit extreme, but BIG GOVERNMENT, NO QUESTIONS? Are we not submitting to the government now with the ACA?

Anyway, just an example of the utter crap that Conservatives get labeled with.

As if we want BIG GOVERNMENT CONTROL? man.

see y'all

Z said...

Ducky, you hide behind that 'we just don't understand each other' stuff, and it sounds GREAT, but when did you EVER EVER TRY to understand this blog or her commenters? If we agree with you, you'd be very happy, right?

And, really, I've wanted SO Many times, to discuss a leftist opinion I don't necessarily disagree with but I can't because of you. If I come close to doing that, I get the I TOLD YOU SO b.s. in a million subtle ways...

And, I have to admit, the conservatives here have also weighed in with "What, you LOVE OBAMA NOW?"
I once said his older daughter was quite beautiful and I got "are you a sexist? Why would you discuss her looks?" from leftwing Sue Hanes, which had me reeling. And "you LIKE the Obamas now?" from some conservatives.

we can't conceded any point because the other will pounce "Ah, you FINALLY see the (OUR) light"

JonBerg said...


" the country would be better off physically divided?"

While I'm not advocating this for the US, an interesting example is North and South Korea. The South enjoys relative freedom in its socioeconomic structure with a high standard of living and a per capita GDP; some 17X that of the North. Albeit that there is inequality within the distribution of wealth. On the-other-hand the folks in the North enjoy starving [equally] and they owe it all to the benefits of SOCIALISM. Oh, did I say "equally"? Well, not quite; the ruling class lives in opulence while the vast majority starve "equally". Yeah, that's more like it! I think that I'd prefer to live in the inequality endured by those in the South!

Duckys here said...

@Imp ==
Personally, I'd like to live among like minded people...

How do you know you don't when we have a toxic environment intent on keeping all divided?

Dave Miller said...

Z... the question was posed to the GOP would they accept 10 dollars in cuts for every 1 dollar in revenue increases {fees or taxes} and they said no.

That sounds like a compromising stance to me from the Dems. I realize it is not everything the GOP wanted, but when looking for both sides to come together, wouldn't people expect compromise?

Here's a report of the fall out from the Bush Medicare Expansion...

As then-Senator Hillary Clinton reasoned in 2006:

"I voted against it, but once it passed I certainly determined that I would try to do everything I could to make sure that New Yorkers understood it, could access it, and make the best of it."

When Wisconsin Senator Kohl, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Select Committee on Aging asked his colleagues "to put aside any partisan thoughts to work together to get this program running," Democratic governors were already spending billions of dollars to help out.

As the Washington Post reported in January 2006, "Two weeks into the new Medicare prescription drug program, many of the nation's sickest and poorest elderly and disabled people are being turned away or overcharged at pharmacies, prompting more than a dozen states to declare health emergencies and pay for their life-saving medicines." Roughly 6.4 million seniors who just days earlier had gotten their prescriptions for free faced the prospect of going without because of untrained pharmacists and computer glitches. By January 16th, 2006, the New York Times reported, many states (most of them led by Democrats) came to their rescue:

About 20 states, including California, Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania and all of New England, have announced that they will help low-income people by paying drug claims that should have been paid by the federal Medicare program.

Among the governors taking action were future Obamacare foes Tim Pawlenty and Mike Huckabee, who declared a health emergency in his state of Arkansas. The fiasco prompted the Bush administration to take drastic measures:

With tens of thousands of people unable to get medicines promised by Medicare, the Bush administration has told insurers that they must provide a 30-day supply of any drug that a beneficiary was previously taking, and it said that poor people must not be charged more than $5 for a covered drug.

- See more at:

Clearly, that law was badly written and implemented, but Dems reached across the aisle and worked together with the GOP to get it right for the American people.

This included Dem Sens Clinton and Kohl.

Also, the No Child Left behind Act was coauthored by none other than Ted Kennedy, along with John Boehnor... The Liberal Lion reaching across the aisle to help pass a law the newly elected GOP President wanted.

We can all sit here bringing up examples of this, but Ducky is right...

We are talking a different language with no incentive to change.

It was a courageous act for Sadat and Begin to get past their fear and distrust of each other...

I wonder when that might happen here in the US.

Sadly, I don't think either side wishes to do so, they both want to win, thinking that they have all the answers themselves.

Have a great party Z... BTW... I enjoyed your comment about Christmas lights in Woodland Hills... my wife and I spent many a night driving around there looking at the lights... Hasting Ranch in Pasadena too...

Rational Nation USA said...

Enjoyed the commentary.on this thread. It has succeeded in strengthening my view that the parties will never successfully work together again for the good of the country. Division is too deep. Politics has been reduced to a partisan winner take all game. When you can't win, obstruct.

Republicans, especially the Tea Party wing, excel at this, damn near perfecting it. Democrats will follow th utch up when and if the nation elects another republican president.

We're all going to pay the price for the idiocy

Z said...

Dave, it was the right thing to do.
The ACA is not.

But, there you go.........the Republicans will just never get it right. I wonder if you even read my other comments.
I'm tired of being unfairly demonized and I think a lot of Republicans are, and this president has done so much to further that that I wonder that some think we're to support him.

Trust me, you passed my house many times if you went to the lights many times!

Beyonce was at a Walmart today giving out $50 gift the tune of about $37K. Beyonce has the right idea, God bless her. She's giving from her heart; no gov't.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Z said...

Anonymous said...

Rational Nation; on the other hand, perhaps Republicans see how bad it is that we've forgotten and not brought to justice those behind Fast and Furious, NSA, Solyndra, Benghazi, etc etc etc....or that we couldn't even read the ACA before it passed; I could go on and on but now I really do have to leave.

Call it obstructionist..that's fine.
But it's not fair and it is not necessarily true.
I'm thinking anybody standing in Hitler's way was considered obstructionist by him and his ghouls, too. (And, no lefties, please allow me to say that without your asking if I'm comparing Hitler to Obama..imagine everybody's so sensitive that I even have to write that? yet, I do...)
I use it only as a rather obvious and well known example of when obstructionism is the RIGHT thing to do.

Impertinent said...


Well who's always playing the bigger hand...the victim card...the race card and so on?

Impertinent said...

Petition A&E:

Impertinent said...


Jon...thanks. But truthfully.. I'll grant ducky his position. We are more divided and probably equally so since the last Civil War. Those divisions too were very political with the North painting the South as evil and must be defeated. Same as the left denigrating the right.

I don't think we'll ever see a solution or a turnaround until the leftist, feeling in control and all "righteous" and powerful...who have set out to transform the country and it's morals into what they believe is "good". From racial issues to sodomy. The clock has turned back and morality is in the gutter.

God help us all.

We are at war and have been since the late '60's trying to preserve core values and decency.

SmilinJackSez said...

There’s no denying it, Lefties like Ducky, Dave, Shaw, and yes RN who says he's not a Lefty, but he sure acts like one, and Homosexuals love to hate.

Constitutional Insurgent said...

The two major parties won't work together because they don't work for us. They pay lip service to the drones who vote for them, but they are interested in one thing....and one thing only. Gaining and maintaining political power.

They, and their media allies, perpetuate the duopoly through contriving divisive wedge issues, to keep the serfs preoccupied....much like a modern version of bread and circuses.

Impertinent said...


"The two major parties won't work together because they don't work for us.."

Us? Yes that's true if you mean all of US in the US. But one political party does work for one wing of this country...everyday...every new bill...every new curtailment of freedom and speech. And for the most insignificant, selfish, hateful and narcissistic minority gangs in the country too.

Ask Phil Robertson or Sara Palin about that. For two small examples.

And that party, everyday raises their middle finger to the other half...and adjusts the "laws ( dictates and executive orders ) accordingly. ( Filibuster anyone ? )

T Krabby said...

Speaking of Division:

We continue to tolerate the intolerable and then wonder why we have arrived at our current situation.

We tolerate perverse and deviant behavior and wonder why morals are declining and very DIVIDED ,in the country.

We tolerate levels of violence and crime that our forefathers would never have allowed.

We tolerate a religion who’s "holy" book says the non-believers should be killed.

We elected a man that could not pass e-verify as president and tolerate his dismantling of the country.

What a bunch of fools we have become. We even tolerate those who want to erase Christmas because they don’t like Jesus.

Merry Christmas to all the perverts and agitators and Christian haters. Maybe God will forgive you.

Liberalmann said...

To the frustration of liberals, Obama reached across the aisle too many times only to be slapped back.

How many Republican sponsored bills did Obama support only to have the GOP turn around and vote it down. Idiots.

skudrunner said...


What political party doesn't want to defeat the other party.

When was the last republican sponsored bill to reach the senate floor? When was the last time the incompetent incumbent admitted knowing anything?

Which party said you don't count because we won?

With both parties it is political posturing above all else, the democrats just have a better spin and their head is a much better liar. It is coming out to haunt them but now that he has hired a new spin doctor and running to Hawaii for some golf, I am sure they will come out ahead.

JonBerg said...

I found it amusing, at best, when a few days ago the FRAUD-IN-CHIEF said that he wouldn't attend the Olympics because he was so needed to be POUTS here! This was as he was about to embark on some expensive escape to Hawaii!!! If he was or wasn't bourn there I don't care but I wish that he would stay there, in vacation mode, and NEVER, return to here to "fundamentally change" (f..up) the best Nation/Society that has ever existed in the annals of human history! Come on Liberals, give this old sailor some guff, I can't wait to return it; you childish little POS!

Impertinent said...


Oi...maybe the Japanese will attack Hawaii again? One can hope.

Ed Bonderenka said...

We need a recess appointment of a new president.

Duckys here said...

@Imp ---

Well who's always playing the bigger hand...the victim card...the race card and so on?

You have to take responsibility on the right for the victim card, Imp.
Ever since the movements of the 60's when the conservative white male power structure felt it slipping away, the strategy has bee to play the victim.

You're the victim of the "liberal media".
You're the victims of welfare queens.

Some "star" from an obviously scripted "reality"(LMAO) TV show arranges an interview with Esquire knowing full well what will happen while the shows publicity staff rubs its hands with glee and you play the victim card.
In other words, you got suckered.

Reconciliation may well be impossible because you will not shed your sense of being wronged unless everything from the movements of the 60's is rolled back. Ain't gonna happen.

And while you feel the victim in he culture wars you are being taken to the cleaners by Kapital and don't even recognize your overlords.

Phil Robertson/Ted Nugent 2016

Kid said...

The dems and repubs do see eye more or less on the federal level, though the dems are particularly distasteful.

Suppose the country votes in a repub majority next election (2016), will any of the evil that has been thrust upon us be reversed. Hell no.

I've answered the 2nd question as well.

Anonymous said...

The grievous wound delivered to the Democratic Party was self-inflicted.

Want to save America, all you people suddenly concerned about the direction this country is heading? Here's the solution: Democrats need to take their party back from the progressive and communist movements. Anything short of that simply won't wash.

Kid said...

Quoting a Comment from duck:

@Imp ==
Personally, I'd like to live among like minded people...

duck:How do you know you don't when we have a toxic environment intent on keeping all divided?

Kid: See, now there's a sentient realization from the duck. Push duck Push ! heheh

JonBerg said...


"Oi...maybe the Japanese will attack Hawaii again? One can hope."

Pearl Harbor was one of our Ports (USS Frontier-AD 25). Many a good man died there. I'm afraid that we couldn't be so lucky to see a second attack meet with the success that WE envision. Your point is, however, well taken.

Z said...

Const. Insurg.; I could not agree with you more on this one.

Liberalmann, let's see the bills Obama liked that Republicans developed, ok? Thanks.
Talk about an idiot.

Ducky. "play the victim?" :-)

Dave Miller said...

Z... Regarding liberal man... Maybe he was talking about the ACA? It cannot be credibly argued that the basis of the plan, regardless of how well it works, was developed and promoted by the conservative Heritage Foundation and supported by many Republicans still in congress at one time.

It is a bill that forces Americans to buy insurance from private insurance companies and the GOP developed their idea of it with big business along with Gingrich and the young conservatives of the Contract with America days...

Rational Nation USA said...

Patterned after RomneyCare the ACA if it works, which is questionable without a doubt, will impact the national purse in the same negative way RomneyCare impacted the MA state purse.

Anonymous said...

Skudrunner loves to play the victim and pretend that elitists in N.E. disdain southerners. I don't demean whole groups of people, only certain jerks that are within groups, unlItike what skud does when he labels all northerners, and especially New Englanders as "elitist."

That sort of generalization to shame people is practiced by stupid folks on the right, like Sarah Palin who, when campaigning for conservatives, called rural parts of Virginia "The Real America."

You can't get any more elitist, or stupid than that, can you.

Z said...

Rational Nation; you're so right about that but even folks from Mass. who like Obama will deny RomneyCare has been horrid on their state's fiscal situation.

Dave, there's much in this ACA which Republicans don't agree with.
Plus, they had excellent ideas regarding buying insurance across state lines and keeping costs down, not prices...the costs of goods.

Plus, I don't care WHO developed this stinker, it stinks.
Republicans don't stand up for something just because another Republican liked the idea...especially not if Gingrich did.
There are fine Republican senators and congressmen who are medical doctors and you should treat yourself to some FOX and hear them on the subject; it might be enlightening. Not coming from a ideological place, just telling the truth of most medical doctors...including mine, by the way.

Mr Z's urologist is (was now) a far left lib...his assistant even wore an Obama Tshirt at work....The doctor and Mr. Z used to talk politics quite a bit...
Finally, when Obama was elected and the ACA started being discussed, Mr. Z went in for an appointment and the doctor asked "Where are the Republicans? Why aren't they fighting against the ACA harder?"
All Mr. Z could do was shake his head. He tried SO HARD to remind Dr Katz about the Ayers lie, the way Joe the Plumber was spoken to, Obama's inexperience and so much more..but, no..........

Dave Miller said...

Z... i'm not defending the bill... you asked for an example of a bill that the GOP developed that dems supported. Clearly the ACA fits that bill... that's all I'm saying...

Regarding insurance portability, or the ability to buy across state lines... that would take a federal mandate to the states... are you in favor of that type if control from DC?

It might be a good idea, but I can't see the GOP forcing states to accept it, can you?

JonBerg said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JonBerg said...

"Dave, there's much in this ACA which Republicans don't agree with."

Well yes, especially since NOT A ONE voted for it!!!

Dave, I'm a little confused. Are you now trying to suggest that the convoluted, monstrosity known as the Affordable Care Act (ACA) with its reported 2,700 pages of
legal and 20,000 pages of regulatory gobbledygook, is somehow a product of the Republicans. But now that "blame Bush" (yada, yada) no longer works you guys are now trying [blame Gingrich]? I wonder what's growing in the field that you are pictured standing in?

Kid said...

dave miller needs to offer up some proof of the repubs crafting the aca.
Or sthu.

JonBerg said...


If you ask me, Dave needs to "come down"!

Z said...

Kid, I wondered about that, too.
I think there was some sort of similarity in something the Reps came up with but nothing like the advocacy Dave suggests.......

thanks for asking that.
We'll not hear from him again on that subject, I'm sure.

the lefties come here and condemn and demand links, but don't come up with too many of their own.

Kid said...

Z, Dave Miller has never responded to polite simple questions I've asked.

Personally, I tag him/her as a shill for the DNC. bob beckell type manure thrower with never an ounce of back up.

Kid said...

Z, the only difference between dave miller and libman is dave types more and has a fake picture on the profile.

skudrunner said...

"Skudrunner loves to play the victim and pretend that elitists in N.E. disdain southerners"

I never said all, from the NE just some. Nice try though

Dave Miller said...

Kid... regarding the ACA and the point that the GOP fonds most distasteful... " the Heritage mandate was indistinguishable in principle from the ObamaCare one. In both cases, the federal government would force individuals to purchase a product from a private company—something that Congress has never done before.”

This is from a Forbes article on the original plan of the Heritage Plan, for whom Gingrich worked, and which has been one of the biggest financial backers of the GOP in Congress.

Again, as I've argued, the ACA, with the individual mandate, at least would have to be seen as having its genesis in conservative thought.

I will grant you that no direct legislation made it to either the house or senate floor, but plenty of GOP leaders supported this idea in the past.

Again, I am not arguing about how good, or bad the current law is, just essentially answering a question.

Z also asked about Dems working across the aisle, which I also answered.

Kid, if I missed a question here, let me know...

The picture BTW is of course me, and a simple google search of my name and Oaxaca would confirm that.

You'll also see in that search that I have little time to do work for the DNC. Besides, I am much more of a centrist than the majority of the Dems...

skudrunner said...


One of the issue I have with the ACA is it is a moving target. If everyone had to have insurance, maybe but there is no clear guidelines and the rules today are the exceptions tomorrow.

The ACA has so many exempted from it, big business, that the only thing that is for sure is insurance companies and pharma are going to make more fortunes. Now that the administration has paid back unions, big business and pharma, what is next.

The people that are most affected in a negative way are the middle class and small businesses.

JonBerg said...

The ACA is nothing more than a discombobulation of unstable mandates which bears little or no resemblance to [insurance] and is neither caring or affordable! This legislated version of insanity needs to be repealed, forthwith! It should have been halted on or before a certifiable lunatic in the House Of Representatives emoted, to paraphrase, [pass it to see what's in it].

Kid said...

Dave Miller, If you say so.

Regards the ACA: The subject of healthcare has been up for discussion back to at least the Gingrich days. To say that the current ACA is based on any conservative planning for healthcare reform is an ubelievable bastardization of the facts/history.

When I ask for proof that the heritage foundation wrote the ACA, show me the Heritage Foundation plan. If they wrote it why would they not have published it.

Pointing to a biased site like Forbes is no where near acceptable. You may as well point to CNN or MSNBC which most of us know are pure propaganda organizations connected to the democrat party at the hip - literally. Look at the major players in the media and their family connections to the democrats and the current white house.

Further, I wouldn't bet much that 'the heritage foundation' is a conservative organization. They could purely be advertising to a demographic for the sole purpose of collecting money.

I'd have to add that vehicle insurance is also mandated but no one seems to have a problem with it, compared to the huge problems, intrusions, and unlimited capacity for government control over private citizens.

Given this, attempts to associate obamacare with anything by conservatives is totally unacceptable and unreasonable. It is clearly attempted revisionist history being attempted by the democrats to disassociate this nightmare from the democrats.

Lots of semantics here.... Are federal level republicans conservative? I wouldn't make any bets.

Bottom line is the ACA belongs 100% to the democrats and anyone who supports them with a vote.

Dave Miller said...

Kid... you've defined conservative so narrowly as to rule out any site that you do not deem conservative enough.

Forbes is hardly a liberal site in the vein of MSNBC.

I am sure that Tea Party favorite Jim DeMint, now head of Heritage, would argue with you about their conservatism.

Maybe you could point me to a source that is conservative enough to be trusted.

Here are a couple of relevant sections of the Heritage Lectures from Stuart Butler when their plans were developed.

Regardless of whether you personally consider them conservative or not, it cannot be denied that the Heritage Foundation has been a major think tank for the republican party for years and in fact, former Speaker Newt Gingrich worked for them.

"the Heritage plan aims at achieving four related objectives: All citizens should be guaranteed universa l access to affordable health care. "

"2) Mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance. Many states now require passengers in automobiles to wear seatbelts for their own protection. Many others require anybody driving a car to have li a bility insurance. But neither the federal government nor any state requires all households to protect themselves from the potentially catastrophic costs of a serious accident or illness. Under the Heritage plan, there would be such a requirement. "

And here is the link to the original source on the Heritage site.

Again, as I've said repeatedly, I am not talking about whether or not the ACA, in its current form is either good, or bad law.

I am only saying, in response to the general thrust of Z's post about working across the aisle, that it is evident that the Dems brought a conservative plan to the floor of congress...

Isn't that trying to work across the aisle?

Kid said...

Dave Miller, Thank you for the link. This is what is needed for a meaningful conversation and I try to provide same..

Under the section The Heritage Plan, under the section marked "4" is... "Spurred by larger tax credits for out-of-pocket health expenses, more Americans would pay directly for routine service now often covered b y insurance, such as dental work, eyeglasses, annual physicals, and treatment for minor scrapes and bruises."

This is a reasonable idea. It represents the catastrophic plan that most people need through the majority of their life up until the senior years when HC is needed by most and would provide for "affordable health care".

The ACA is the exact opposite, requiring for total coverage for everyone, including for example maternity care for 65+ year old women AND men.

Based on this, I am saying that your statement that 'The dems brought a conservative plan to congress" is 100% faulty logic.

We still have the issue of who is conservative. By conservative, I mean Following the Conservative method. Conservative can be defined as "follows the Constitution 100%", and if you disagree follow the 62% ratify rule to get the Constitution changed.
Therefore, conservative is not defined as how I view it. It is the Constitution, not my opinions.
We can then easily identify when a politician or organization is conservative by deciding whether its output and ideas follow the constitution.

Yea, I know Roberts gave this evil thing the official OK, but you are not going to find any conservatives who agree with Roberts on whether the ACA is constitutional. It isn't. Maybe what we need is for someone to bring the case framed properly, but that's not likely to happen at this point.

Dave Miller said...

Kid, it seems to me that the biggest issue, indeed what Roberts decided, was/is the mandate.

Clearly the idea of a mandate is included in the Heritage Plan, although I'll give you that the Dems put the Heritage Plan on steroids.

I'm at a loss, as a Dem, to understand why people my age [50+] need to pay for maternity care. That's certainly a legit complaint.

Kid said...

Dave M, Yea, Roberts based his opinion on the idea it was a tax and 'Congress can impose a tax'.

That's quite a stretch, especially while the dems were claiming all along it wasn't a tax.

Well, good luck to ya, couple people or 50 million on a comment section aren't going to change anything.

obamacare is going to take our standard of living and quality down several notches over the next 5 years.

Z said...

Dave and Kid, I'm not reading all your comments here but, honestly, Dave...for you to say you're remotely 'centrist' almost makes me laugh.

EVERY SINGLE DAMNED CHANCE YOU GET, you slam ANYTHING we say here at geeeZ. you're NEVER EVER even halfway with what's the center?

This is anything but a 'rabid rightwing blog' a matter of fact, if I could and not be slammed forever by you, Ducky, and a few others, I'd prove far more centrist than you ever DREAMED OF...and I'm NO centrist, trust me.

Plus, I have to say this because I'm sick of people slapping themselves on the back as 'centrists'..I think Centrists are like bisexuals; make up your MIND; be SOMETHING. A centrist is like the art at Bank of Americas (something I know well)'s NOWHERE. It's neither good nor bad; a terrible thing to be if you're in the design world (which I was in here in LA quite prominently)

Be can someone who supports the constitution supports Obama? Please, Dave....stop with the "I'm centrist"

I think we'd be buddies if it weren't for politics, but politically? You're like every liberal I meet here in Santa MOnica. No offense, but........

tell me how you're centrist.

and I sincerely hope I haven't offended you but that remark got me going (obviously!) :-)