Friday, May 28, 2010

Our soldiers ..... shouldn't they come first?

Please watch the video (with Kleenex, I warn you)...then tell me what you think of the story below, thanks.

How does an American soldier not attack, as described in the link, when he sees his fellow soldiers in big trouble?

Here's a paragraph that tells it all.....from this abc link:

"But in this war, making sure you kill the enemy -- and no one else -- can take far more discipline and even courage, as we would soon find out. In fact Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who is the commander in Afghanistan, calls this discipline, "Courageous Restraint." It means even if someone on the ground is in trouble, you have to make sure you know what your target is and that you do your best not to hurt innocent civilians. "

And another couple of paragraphs:

"Sometimes not firing can be tough. Pilots say it’s hard to watch their fellow soldiers on the ground taking fire."

“We have to use restraint when it’s tough,” Col. Jack Briggs said. “We’re listening to these kids on the ground, and they’re taking fire."

Who wants innocent people dead? Do your best not to hurt innocents....but SAVE OUR SOLDIERS, please! Where do we go from here when our soldiers are being told to put others' lives in front of our fighters? How do you look your comrades in the eyes when they're not really sure you will be there for them, which I believe is THE most important thing boot camps, etc., teach our kids? I have never been in the armed services, but am I wrong about this?

And, the very thought of a town honoring its fallen hero, like the one in the video above, because his fellow soldiers COULDN'T put his life first and save him is almost more than America should bear.............z


Bloviating Zeppelin said...

When the procession passes the guys adjacent their bikes on the right, and they're standing straight and erect and saluting, that just brought the flood, I'm not ashamed to admit.

I'm telling you people, our soldier are simply a breed apart. The are, like cops, the sheepdogs amidst the sheep.

Fabulous and heartbreaking.


Bloviating Zeppelin said...

On that order, I would also heartily recommend a similarly moving film entitled Taking Chance.

Bring the Kleenex for that one also. A movie based in fact.


Z said...

BZ, I bawled like a baby, too.
I had written my post then Elmer's Brother sent the video and I thought "if these don't go together, I don't know what does".
NOBODY should watch his child's casket driven in on a hearse knowing that his comrades couldn't save his life because they had to make REAL REAL sure that they didn't hurt someone WHILE saving their comrade...How much time do our armed services leaders think our soldiers HAVE , and how do they feel being told "Don't shoot even tho you see your buddy being fired at, you might hit an innocent person from the enemy's side"..that REALLY bugs me.

Z said...

I'll put TAKING CHANCE on my Netflix list..I hope it's there. Thanks, BZ.

Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Z: you will not be sorry, I promise you. Be forewarned: it's tough to watch, but you'll be so proud to be an American.


On the other hand, then there are the politicians in New York who are advocating a new law for their law enforcement officers. You will absolutely not believe it. I'll be writing about that tomorrow or Sunday, I believe.

Anonymous said...

Shit and more shit. Next thing we know they'll be giving DS medals for waving a white flag of surrender. (Which the French excel in) Maybe a Medal of Honor for saving a dozen burka clad terrorists posing as farm animals? But I think every yellow bastard in NYC's city council...or whatever it is...should get a yellow medal for kissing islams obscene ass for the 911 mosque.

There is NO Such THING as INNOCENT CIVILIANS. If they're near the terrorists...they support the terrorists. The rest is bullshit. Start killing everyone next to a jihadist...and they'll start backing away from and aiding the enemy. Imagine...if you will...we decided not to bomb Dresden...Berlin...or any major population center due to "civilian casualties". Just as the islamist scum decided that the WTC WAS A LEGITIMATE MILITARY TARGER....regardless of the fact that all killed were...CIVILIANS!!

Arm up...load up...lock up muslims now. it worked 60 years ago and we never had a terrorist, German or Japanese "jihadist" strike the heart of America. They were under lock and key...and curfew.

We seriously need to grow up.


Z said...

Major, it's so unbelievable. Here we are facing an enemy whose main goal is COLLATERAL DAMAGE and we're pussy footing around...
NOBODY wants innocent women and children killed, but we KNOW our enemy has hidden behind their innocents, hiding where our soldiers are afraid to fire into.
I remember in Iraq there were islamists shooting from mosques at our kids knowing full well some American journalist would flip out if WE SHOOT AT A MOSQUE!
Remember, these mosques are where non muslims aren't allowed because they're 'too holy', but they can KILL people from them, huh?

Anonymous said...

Z, you were right, kleenex is needed. I say, our soldiers come first.

God help me, but, are they still dying for our freedom? When they come home, what will they be coming home to?


Deborah on the Bayside said...

Well, Major, did you know a British officer has proposed a medal be issued for showing restraint in combat? I can see it now -- you get one medal for "restraint" in not returning fire when you encounter a house emitting machine gun fire and a purple heart for being shot. Wonder what this soldier's family thinks of that idea.

Elmers Brother said...

the ROE in Afghanistan now I've heard does not allow them to have a chambered round and they're giving people up to a week's notice before they do a house search

David Wyatt said...

It's unbelievable. Certainly no one wants to kill innocents, but in a time of war, that is the chance everyone takes. On 9/11 no one tried to make sure no innocents were killed. It was just the opposite, they made sure as many innocents were killed as possible.
BZ hit it on the head when he said our soldiers are a breed apart. God bless 'em all.

Z said...

Deborah, that, I knew and was horrified upon hearing it.

Elbro, THAT, I did NOT know and it just can't be true. If ONLY we had an honest media, I have a hunch even lib Americans would be up at arms if they heard about the chamber and the house searches...they have children fighting, too, after all.

David, as I said in an earlier comment, WE can't allow collateral damage when our enemy's stock in trade is COLLATERAL DAMAGE, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

How Al Qaeda must laugh themselves SICK when they hear about Miranda Rights, restraint, house search warnings, etc etc......

Anonymous said...

But Elbro, a week's notice could mean our troops can more easily be ambushed. Are you sure about this?

My God, what is the President thinking? I figured he didn't care about our military very much, but this? They're sitting ducks over there and not allowed even the protection of a chambered round.

This is beyond belief. How could a general agree to this. McCrystal should have said he'd resign his post rather than agree to this. These men are under his command.


christian soldier said...

the word is out the our BEST have been ordered to carry their rifles w/ the safety on and the first chamber empty!!...
the new RoEs are going to get more and more of them killed!!
to say that I am pisssssed about all of this -'let's be nice to the enemy' stuff-- would be an understatement!

Thank you - our BEST---
Happy Memorial Day to all of you BEST 'over there' and to the Patriots here....

Elmers Brother said...

It started nearly a year ago and this

Elmers Brother said...

I've been told that the new ROE's are responsible for at least 4 soldirs deaths

Brooke said...

I say nuke the whole shit hole from orbit. It's the only way to be sure you get all the terrorists that are over there.

And Major is right; if we were to start taking out everyone near the terrorists, those people might stop sheltering and aiding them!

This 'courageous restraint' bullshit is going to get more people killed than not, and they will be our men.

Mark said...

Up is down. Left is right. The Right is wrong. In this brave new topsy-turvy world of political correctness, it's only a matter of time before we self destruct.

It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world.

Except for Lola.

Maggie Thornton said...

It should be criminal to order military to use Courageous Restraint on a ongoing basis, and as policy - good grief! If we are sending up our air force as back up, then EVERYONE should evacuate in a battle and if they don't want to evacuate, then maybe they die - because obviously our military is dying needlessly.

How do our military leaders look soldiers in the eye when they deploy to a war zone, knowing that the lives of the enemy are more valuable their soldiers?

Z, the video is a story repeated far too many times and a heartbreaking reminder of the price of freedom. God bless and comfort SSgt Beale's family.

Thinking of you this weekend.

Ducky's here said...

You do have to put this in context. There have been a large number of civilian deaths and the reports on the drone flights that are coming out are particularly damning.

Now it isn't up to you or Major (enlightened soul that he is) to determine whether or not these deaths have a negative effect on the mission.

Z said...

Elbro, I wish I could cut/paste parts of that first document; it's extremely clear that what our leaders have told our soldiers is that it's more important to win the hearts and minds of those people in the enemy areas than it is to keep ourselves safe.
While I think winning hearts and minds is VERY important, we all should know how hard the Taliban is working as I type here to constantly remind those in villages, etc., that we're terrible; there has been much talk about killings making it look like we did it, etc.,..nobody can fight that.
I think Brooke's suggestion, very sadly, is the only one.

I believe you can't win a war with the embeds we have there, not the amount and mind-set of ours, anyway. I think the left doesn't quite understand what war is and how they've prolonged this one with their political correctness.

Pris, only one day's notice would mean the house they're going to enter could be filled with enough ammo to explode as our kids walk in the door. Imagine telling soldiers "they've got a week before you go into that house!"? What a terrible morale killer; frankly, it's so stupid it kind of makes me laugh, doesn't it you? It sounds like a terrible joke.

Maggie, thanks, and thanks for coming by. This is a story repeated far too many times; and, as I say, it's bad enough when our soldiers are killed in honest and fair combat, but these new rules make a travesty of that funeral cortege.

Ducky, civilian deaths happen in every war, you consider context.
as for your comment about 'these deaths', I don't know if you mean those killed there or ones like the soldier in this cortege. I assure you our soldiers' deaths do have an effect on the mission.

Dan said...

Ducky said: "You do have to put this in context. There have been a large number of civilian deaths"

and for once Ducky and I agree, we do need to put them in context. There were more than 3000 of them in one day on Sep 11th, 2001.

Z said...

Dan, AMEN...good point.

Anonymous said...

This is what makes wars drag on, longer than need be, costing more lives, and especially, more American lives.

Here's some context: You fight to win. You beat the enemy into submission, until they surrender, and you make it clear you'll leave when you've won and not before. Then and only then, do you help rebuild the country.

You don't send your men out to be target practice for the enemy. You don't make your ROE public knowledge as if it's an invitation to aggression against you, and you don't announce the day you're going to show up.


Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Let us also put this in TRUE context, ladies and gentlemen. I submit: when you are fighting an enemy that has a clear disdain for and purposely refuses to adhere to the Geneva Convention, then any and all gloves should be REMOVED.

There are REASONS that standing armies wear uniforms -- for ready IDENTIFICATION. There are REASONS that military ground vehicles, air vehicles, sea vehicles are marked with insignia and/or colors -- for ready IDENTIFICATION.

And there are reasons why terrorists REFUSE to do so, and why they stand behind the skirts of women and the presence of children.

I'm sure you can do the math on this one, readers of Z's blog.


Anonymous said...

Why would anyone want to defend a country that shows the enemy more consideration and gives the enemy more rights than she does her protectors and defenders?

At the rate we are disintegrating there will be nothing left worth defending very soon.


~ FreeThinke

Joe said...

The video was very moving.

Regardless of one's point of view on how to prosecute this war, we cannot allow our opinions to detract from those who gave their lives following their orders to the best of their abilities.

I lean toward the "blow them off the map" approach, which might be why nobody put me in charge.

David Wyatt said...

BZ & Joe, right on!

Dan said...

The Geneva Convention is a social compact (an agreement not to do A to you if you will not do A to me) of sorts wherein the participants in a war agree to a compact in things like not targeting non-combatants in order to protect its own civilians and the humane treatment of POW's etc. to protect its own soldiers. Once the compact is broken by one of the belligerents, the motivation for the remaining belligerent to oblige itself to the compact with a nation that exists in realtiy would be lost.

The only possible reason for obliging one self to the compact is to win over a portion of your enemy. If we were at war with a secular power this may be plausible, but we are not. We are at war with religious and brutal zealots who are not interested in anything we have to offer. As the world's leading propagator of hedonism, smut, same sex marriage, and free-love, we as infidels are seen as demonic and fit only for death.

If they are to be defeated, they will have to be defeated. If they are not, they will win using our own strategy on us. In regard to this, consider the mindset that allows a mosque at ground zero.

Z said...

Dan: you said "As the world's leading propagator of hedonism, smut, same sex marriage, and free-love, we as infidels are seen as demonic and fit only for death."

Heck, you have ME thinking we deserve to die :-) !!

and "If they are to be defeated, they will have to be defeated. If they are not, they will win using our own strategy on us. In regard to this, consider the mindset that allows a mosque at ground zero."

Nobody could put it more succinctly or truer than that...this mindset WILL make America lose. BIG TIME

Opus #6 said...

I asked my buddy what harm can O do after he is a lame duck prez. The answer is, he can mess with the military. He is CIC. We must pray hard and expose everything he does that is anti-military. If he doesn't want the military somewhere, then don't send them. If he wants to send in the military than gosh-darned do it right.

Z said...

Opus, he's already messing with the military ...I know so many people have said the soldiers don't want to know their buddies are gay, it puts them off in the showers, it sets up a whole different relationship; I feel as sorry for the dignified gay soldiers because their buddies are put off by knowing..
Obviously, there are exceptions, but the exsoldiers I hear are very worried about this for morale...and amazed that admirals, generals, etc., seem to be going along with the WH.

beamish said...

Operation: Gotta Do Something Different From Bush is not working out so well for the Obama war command.

Anonymous said...

"Hey, I'm solid, hey I'm steady, hey I'm true down to the core,
And I will always do my duty, no matter what the price,
I've counted up the cost, I know the sacrifice,
Oh, and I don't want to die for you,
But if dying's asked of me,
I'll bear that cross with an honor,
'Cause freedom don't come free.
I'm an American Soldier, an American,
Beside my Brothers and my Sisters I will proudly take a stand.
When liberty's in jeopardy I'll always do what's right.
I'm out here on the front lines, sleep in peace tonight.
American Soldier,
I'm an American Soldier.

Thank you Toby Keith...a man who's Dad was a Hero and A Korean Vet.