Friday, December 17, 2010

Question of the day.............

WHO PAID FOR PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA'S HARVARD EDUCATION?

I'm throwing it out to my buddies here at geeeeZ.........what do you think?  I've always been curious about it.  thanks!  

128 comments:

beamish said...

Be serious.

All high school stoners who do unpaid volunteer community work get to go the Ivy League school their deadbeat dad did for free.

Don'tcha know?

Z said...

Beamish, I don't think so.

http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaEducation.htm

Quite some information there.
I've seen seen an interview with his old Arab mentor who supposed raised money for Harvard. WHen some in the media asked to interview the man again, a year or two since the first interviews, they were denied access "the man is too old now to speak."

Ducky's here said...

Some al-Qaeda operative, no doubt.

Z said...

Ducky, possibly only in effect. But I had to smirk at the news yesterday "Al Qaeda chattering about hitting the States with more terror" as Obama concludes that Al Qaeda's pretty stripped of power lately.
Let's hope that on this, he's finally right. Of course, we know you don't at all fear AQ and all us rightwingers are just 'wetting our beds'...:-)

beamish said...

I've seen that interview, Z. "Too old to speak" might possibly be true. The guy wasn't exactly the model of coherency in the interview.

Always On Watch said...

From Z's link in her comment above:

Obama released seven years of tax returns on March 25 of 2009.

The returns, dating back to 2000, indicate that the couple paid no interest on their student loans. The interest from such loans would have been deductible on their joint income tax returns.


Not interesting in and of itself until one reads this:

Michelle Obama has claimed that the couple had "only just" paid off their student loans after receiving book royalties paid out in 2005 and 2006.

Always On Watch said...

According to this:

Khalid Abdullah Tariq al-Mansour is a Muslim lawyer and a black nationalist who made news in 2008 when it was revealed that he had been a patron of Barack Obama and had recommended the latter for admission to Harvard Law School in 1988.

[...]

In the mid-1970s al-Mansour met Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Tatal, who today is best known for having offered a $10 million donation toward 9/11 relief efforts in 2001 -- an offer that was rejected by New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani when the prince suggested that the terrorist attacks were an indication that America "should re-examine its policies in the Middle East and adopt a more balanced stand toward the Palestinian cause." Al-Mansour's relationship with the prince eventually led to al-Mansour's hiring as attorney to King Saud. He has since been an adviser to Saudi billionaires who fund the spread of Wahhabi extremism in America.


So, who paid for Obama's education at Harvard? Can't say for sure, but there could have been Saudi riyals involved. However, considering the racial prejudice of Arabs toward blacks, I mention the Saudi riyals as only a possibility.

What is amazing: it seems that Obama didn't really have undergrad achievement worthy of admission to Harvard. And didn't he also have some kind of substance problem too?

Dave Miller said...

Such connection speculation can cut both ways. Many of the people AOW mentioned are also very connected to the infamous Carlyle Group who count as one of their senior advisors Fmr President George HW Bush, father of GW Bush.

Is it equally valid to cast the veiled charge of terrorist sympathizer on GW too because of his connections and somewhat thin Ivy League resume?

I mean after all, how did GW distinguish himself before he was accepted to Yale?

cube said...

The tale of Obama's past has stunk on ice since he came onto the national political scene. Even more proof of his illegitimacy came this week when he called on Bill Clinton to help him lead the very democrats who have been licking his boots these last two years.

tha malcontent said...

"Question of the day?............."

Question of the Year!

Steve Harkonnen said...

Someone obviously wanted him to be president.

Ticker said...

1987 Bill Ayers solicited Khalid Abdullah Tariq al-Mansour (a.k.a. Donald Warden) to raise money for Obama’s Harvard Law School education. al-Mansour is an orthodox Muslim, a black nationalist, an outspoken enemy of Israel, and mentor to Black Panther Party founder Huey Newton and his cohort, Bobby Seale. At the time al-Mansour associate Percy Sutton was raising money for Obama’s education, al-Mansour was the top financial advisor to mega-billionaire Prince Alwaleed (Alwalid) bin Talal of the Saudi royal family.

1988-1991 Obama attended Harvard Law School.

2008 Obama elected President

In 2009 al-Mansour donates 20 million dollars to Harvard, one of the 25 top donations made.

The connection grows closer.

FrogBurger said...

Great stuff Ticker.

I just want Assange to find his grades.

Glad Ducky is back after one day without his idiot comments. I started missing him.

Z said...

beamish, I saw that interview's video; he made sense to me. I got every word and was amazed at how he told they were to groom Obama..etc.

Dave, we pretty much know who paid for Bush..he himself had a businesses he ran, and I'm PRETTY sure he'd never followed a religion which has grown to the point where many of its adherents want us dead.
But, it's almost dangerous to do this "your guy, my guy thing"..we don't have that luxury anymore. We're in a fight for America's values. I didn't fear for them under either Bush. Bush also got better grades than Kerry, though I don't really want to 'go there'...I'm just sick to DEATH of the nasty lies about the Bushes, especially when they're used to subterfuge the REALLY dangerous mentality of our Coke-snorting, pot smoking radically-mentored, unknown Obama.

Z said...

AOW, I was hoping that was the video of the very old Arab telling about how he'd been told by bigwigs in Saudi to groom and pay for Barack Obama...the video which seems to have disappeared and the information of which was made less vital when people did perk up (before the election) and wanted to know how much truth there was to the amazing things he was saying, only to hear the old man's handlers thank them for their interest but "gee, the old man is SO old and just can't manage another interview." Of course, our media said "My goodness, we understand" and that was that :-)
Obama is a VERY Lucky man
Saudi Arabia is a VERY lucky country

Z said...

I'm bummed because I think I"ve got one of my best blog pieces ever to write and post but I"m in too much pain to think...ugh!
Will take Advil and come back........it's something based on TV I watched this morning and last night.......man.

beamish said...

Is it equally valid to cast the veiled charge of terrorist sympathizer on GW too because of his connections and somewhat thin Ivy League resume?

Is it equally valid to label you a mendacious twit because you breathe oxygen just like Hitler did?

Or does the visible fact that AOW cast no such "veiled charge of terrorist sympathizer" at all seal that deal?

God in Heaven, Ducky's going to have to fight hard to type a more imbecilic comment than that.

I'm impressed, Dave.

beamish said...

beamish, I saw that interview's video; he made sense to me. I got every word and was amazed at how he told they were to groom Obama..etc.

Not sure if we're talking about the same video.

Was it this video?

The guy talks reeeeal slow, like he's losing his train of thought between every other word.

Layla said...

Hi, Z, finally made it back and with a new bloggie too. I have been so busy with family and school. Forgive me for not coming by sooner. I truly am sorry.

As for Obama, I cannot imagine this. The man is an oxymoron and his life in my humble opinion holds no true worth. It has all been one huge lie.

Hope you will visit me soon! I also hope you are doing well and God bless you!

Always On Watch said...

Ticker said: 1987 Bill Ayers solicited Khalid Abdullah Tariq al-Mansour (a.k.a. Donald Warden) to raise money for Obama’s Harvard Law School education.

Color me not surprised.

Always On Watch said...

I wonder when Barry Sortero went back to his given name of Barack Hussein Obama?

Z said...

beamish, that's the video.
Actually, if you'll watch closely, he thinks and then speaks extremely articulately and fairly at a clip once he's decided how much he can reveal. That guy's not incapacitated, he's old and hiding a lot and doing a damn good job representing the BRILLIANT OBAMA!

Questions:
"BRILLIANT" based on WHAT? Why would some lone Arab like him be contacted by a KHalid Mansour who's heard of OBAMA? WHAT? What prompted Mansour to get interested in a nobody?

And, LAW REVIEW!? :-) That's not decided till a few years in law school..........in other words, I know Arabs, Beamish; PRIDE IS EVERYTHING. They find out what their boy has to do to be noticed, prestigious, and it's ED. of the HARVARD LAW REVIEW (he never wrote ONE article by the way)....SO, they're talking Law Review BEFORE he's even considered for admittance..........these men who don't know him.

I swear I"m sitting here (In utter and horrid pain, worse than the last few days, may I add :-( ) and LAUGHING at people who actually think this makes any sense at all OTHER than making sense that a bunch of Arabs very VERY badly wanted this half black/half white man of supposed CHristian faith and no record of accomplishment to go to expensive Harvard. WHY? WHO pAID?

And who the HELL would ask a guy with absolutely NO accomplishments to write TWO AUTOBIOGRAPHIES...and how'd they manage to ask "and hey, could you write them in THIS year and THAT year, Ayers has decided 'not to write a book' those two years for the first time in 12 years. :-)

Anonymous said...

"I just want Assange to find his grades."

FB, so you want Assange to be rewarded for what he's done? For him to get off scott free?

How do we know he's not part of the effort to bring down the US? To create more chaos and give the power brokers involved, such as Soros, more fuel for the fire?

I mean, who the hell is Assange, and where did he come from, and who are his associates? He wasn't hatched out of an egg.

How about first, before he's given a medal, he's thoroughly investigated, and we find out who else is involved?

Pris

Craig said...

Prince Alwaleed bin Tatal?

Oh yeah, #2 owner of NewsCorp, which owns Fox News. America hating Fox News. Another study proving habitual Fox viewers are more misinformed than consumers of other news. The more you watch, the dumber you get.

Everyone knows, Bill Ayers, Rev. Wright, George Soros, Saul Alinsky, Saul Bellow, Mort Saul, Lawrence Tribe, Cass Sunstein, Momma Cass, Hugo Chavez, Fidel and Raul Castro, Osama Bin Laden and Woody Oakes (Father of ACORN), all pitched in to pay Barry's tuition.

beamish, you imbecilic moron. Shut up or I'll come over there and sock you in the Adam's apple. But seriously, do you have any friends in the real world? You get sadder with each comment.

commoncents said...

GREAT POST! Keep up the excellent work!!

Steve
Common Cents
http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com

FrogBurger said...

Pris,

You need a sense of humor on this one. I was joking around. It could be Assange or somebody else. Hell I wish I could be a hacker and go into Harvard computers :)

But again I'm shared on Assange. The guy may go to jail for a long time. Should we put in jail people who got the info wrong that led us to Iraq? Haven't them undermined our country financially at the end?

We should put people who are a threat to national security in jail. Then I suggest we put everyone in Congress and all people responsible for the debt. Because at this stage, this is the main threat to national security.

Z said...

Craig, oh MY are you angry!
But, heck, you forgot to give us YOUR best shot of who paid for Harvard for Barack..that shouldn't be too tough...and not knowing, and knowing NOBODY KNOWS, should bother you but shouldn't the fact that leftwing media hasn't asked bother you MORE?
That's why FOX and other Conservative venues MUST EXIST..we're TIRED of seeing news with NO OTHER SIDE PRESENTED!
The WORLD OPINION group may not LIKE it, but WE DO..we want ALL SIDES>
Their graphs are ludicrous, I wish this one would print better but the computer messes it up:

The bank bailout legislation (TARP) was passed and signed into law under Pres. Obama
Never
Rarely
About once a week
About 2-3 times a week
Almost every day
Fox News
45
45
47
35
47
CNN
43
40
54
52
38
MSNBC
45
43
49
44
38
Network TV news broadcasts
39
41
43
39
51
Public broadcasting (NPR or PBS)
41
47
52
25
48
Newspapers and news magazines (in print or online)
44
43
47
41
44

WHAT?

CRAIG, there's so much in your 'report', particularly toward the end that shows Republicans know a LOT more than the Dems that I'm not sure where you're going with this. I mean, some PROOF Republicans aren't informed is that they don't believe climate change is caused by humans.
CRAIG: MANY SCIENTISTS DON'T BELIEVE IT, TOO, BUT THEY'RE SHOUTED DOWN, THEIR REPORTS LIED ABOUT AND MISREPRESENTED (See the ENglish scandal) AND YOU'RE HAPPY BECAUSE THE LIES SUPPORT YOUR HOPE OF DESTROYING OUR ECONOMIES THROUGH FIXING CLIMATE PROBLEMS?

This whole piece is so subjective I started laughing halfway through.


PLEASE watch FOX some time.....get BOTH SIDES, Craig, you'll really feel GOOD about yourself :-)

Brooke said...

Considering Obama is an AA candidate, we all paid.

FrogBurger said...

Craig, you can "aller te faire cuire un oeuf" with your comment. If we're dumb, you're as dumb as us.

Honestly, honestly how can a druid be credible in 2010? Go play with the smurfs and other fairies, please.

FrogBurger said...

Craig, did you read page 7 of the PDF.

I'm laughing my lass off. God you're such a dumb ass drone.

What's the unemployment rate again, Getafix?

Anonymous said...

OK FB. I have a sense of humor, but I missed that on your comment. Sorry. I guess I don't know you well enough yet to see it.

To me, the jury's still out on wmd. The debate in the UN at the time dragged on for four months, thanks to certain European countries, plenty of time to move those weapons to another country.

I'd go on about support for the Iraq war, but been there done that dozens of times. I'm done with that.

Pris

MK said...

Whoever paid for it made a crappy investment. Unless off course the intent was always to make a clown who would hate America and send it down the toilet.

Z said...

FB; Ireland's now been rated 3 above junk...this, after Ireland's economy was riding SO HIGH only a couple of years ago...what happened? YOu understand economy, have you been following the Irish situation or only now since problems have started?

Pris....we gave Saddam what, 12 delays?...plenty of time to move wmd is an understatement. Americans don't even understand the Arab cunning mind ...and, of course, we have a CIA who teaches its undercover people to speak "High Arabic" which only professors speak..you can't pick out our CIA (smile

As a girl whose Mom was raised in Cairo so I've picked up over the years comments which help me well understand the worst of the Arabic mentality (and the good stuff, too...and the good FOOD :-), I MYSELF KNOW we haven't come close to realizing their cunning, and the fact that PRIDE and STRENGTH ARE ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING to them. THis is why OUR pride and righteousness being knocked down, especially by our own leftwingers who think this is a politics game, is MUCH more dangerous than even Conservatives THINK.
Saddam killed 300,000 Kurds and he hadn't weapons of mass destruction? How many do leftwingers think one has to kill before they call it 'mass'?
Yes, there are those who've said it was buried in the sand, it was removed to Syria...but NO, WE CAN'T BELIEVE THAT, it DOESN'T SUIT OUR LEFTWING DESIRE TO LEAVE THE WAR :-)
As you know, Mr. Z lived in Iraq for a total of approx a year.......he laughed his head off when he heard people thinking the Iraqis couldn't have hidden or given WMD to SYria.
While watching the Gulf War, Schwarzkopf announced "WE HAVE DESTROYED EVERY JET FIGHTER SADDAM HAS!"
Mr. Z turns to his lovely young new wife (that'd be ME (smile)) and says "That's impossible.....they're in bunkers down under the ground.MANY of them....they haven't found those yet..what dopes!"

Ten minutes later Schwarzkopf comes back on the news "Actually, we haven't got them all, we're learning they're hidden in..."

Was I thrilled I had a husband so intelligent? Sure. But that didn't win over my total PANIC and FEAR that our idiot intel people knew less than my husband did. YIKES.

MK..it's all such a joke..we're so much weaker in this leftist environment.

FrogBurger said...

Z, I don't know the specifics about Ireland aside from a few points:
- They were the booming center of Europe so maybe they overheated like it happens in the economic cycle, and therefore overspent or had budget estimates based on too much growth.
- Real estate was California like: high prices, totally disconnected from income. So I wouldn't be surprised if the real estate crash is also part of it.
- They have more immigrants to support with the EU, including French, Russians, Polish, etc... and they have more welfare costs. That I got from my sister's husband who's Irish.

That's all I know so not very specific.

Z said...

thanks, FB...I guess the left thinks countries are supposed to ruin themselves by absorbing and paying for all the nonproductive immigrants......how sad is that. I wonder about that when they see the countries GO DOWN because of it.

Anonymous said...

Hey Z, watch out talking about idiot intel people! You get my drift? Ha,Ha.

And yes, those bunker buster bombs weren't developed for above ground facilities!

Pris

FrogBurger said...

Z, the left doesn't understand the world sustainability unless it's for polar bears.

Ducky's here said...

CRAIG, there's so much in your 'report', particularly toward the end that shows Republicans know a LOT more than the Dems

------------------

About what?

Again, about what?

Dave Miller said...

Beamish, thank you for the complement... we'll see what Ducky can do...

Z, I am not understanding your graph, but I do know that TARP, the legislation that authorized the bank bailouts and the US auto industry bail out, was signed into law by President Bush and he himself recently reiterated in his book tour that he believed he did the right thing.

RedWood said...

"The guy wasn't exactly the model of coherency in the interview."


Nor would, Prez TelePrompTer without one.

We've had some samples recently.

FrogBurger said...

Ducky, the mere fact you're asking such a generic question shows how infantile you are.

"About what?"

You know more about movies than I do. But you are ignorant about many basic economic things beyond reading Marx.

And more importantly again, your intellect is poor.

A dog may know a lot of words, but that doesn't mean he can speak human language.

beamish said...

beamish, you imbecilic moron. Shut up or I'll come over there and sock you in the Adam's apple.

Do you need my address? Will you give yours?

I'm going to kick your bitch ass twice if you don't show up.

Name the time. Have beer money in your wallet, or it's a third ass kicking.

FrogBurger said...

Beamish, be nice to Getafix. He invented the magic potion that made Obelix really strong.

RedWood said...

"Have beer money in your wallet, or it's a third ass kicking."


Can I go to? I don't want to miss an event like that!

Go beamish...

beamish said...

beamish, that's the video.
Actually, if you'll watch closely, he thinks and then speaks extremely articulately and fairly at a clip once he's decided how much he can reveal. That guy's not incapacitated, he's old and hiding a lot and doing a damn good job representing the BRILLIANT OBAMA!


That's Percy Sutton, Malcolm X's lawyer. He died last year.

He's talking about how his friend Khalid al-Mansour (the radical racist black Muslim was raising money for Barack Obama and came to him for a letter of recommendation to Harvard on behalf of Barack Obama.

Not that Obama has any embarassing and shady past associations with left-wing racist thugs that need vetting. I mean, they raise money for just anybody and expect nothing in return, right?

beamish said...

Can I go to? I don't want to miss an event like that!

Sure! You can make his family watch me piss on his face.

Ticker said...

Craig: Prince Alwaleed bin Tata owns 7% which is hardly a majority stock holder portion in any business. He may be the #2 stock holder but again hardly a majority stock holder

I suppose it's just fine that Soros owns stock in Direct TV, Verizon, Google, AOL, Cable Systems Corp, Turner Broadcasting, Time Warner Corp,(Subsidiaries:

Home Box Office (HBO)
Time Inc.
Turner Broadcasting System, Inc.
Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.

Other Time Warner Inc. Properties

ContentGuard, Inc.
Courtroom Television Network LLC
MovieTickets.com, Inc.
New Line Cinema Corporation
Fine Line Features
Road Runner Holdco LLC
Time Warner Cable Inc.
Time Warner Telecom Inc.
Time Warner Cable

Walt Disney Company (CEO called Soros one of the best investors
ABC Entertainment
* ABC Family
* ABC Family Worldwide Inc.
* ABC Studios
* ABC Television Network
* American Broadcasting Company
ESPN International
* ESPN Zone
* ESPN.com
* ESPNews
* ESPN
* ESPN Deportes
* ESPN Deportes Radio
* ESPN2

Do I need to continue? OBTW these are also either new or added additions to his stock holding just this past year. The list is too long to print but I know where to find it in detail.

Ok, so now what's you point?

The prince can't own a portion of FOX but Soros can own a portion of all these major media companies. Hypocrisy at it's best Craig. Take it somewhere else you've lost your argument , as if you had one to begin with.

Ticker said...

REDWOOD save me a seat on the front row! Tell Craig to bring Quacker and then I'll join with Beamish in a tag team match. I belive this old man could probably kick both these limp wrist twits asses by myself on a bad day.

Z said...

DUcky, read it, I can't do your homework.
Start with climate 'change', you know that thing you lefties were freaked out about but called it global warming till you finally figured out it isn't?

Dave, BUsh isn't my arbiter of Conservatism, trust me. TARP was wrong... funny, I just realized something; it's only since the Tea Parties that Democrats are actually speaking against each other ....you never used to see Dems disagree in public/TV, etc., but you sure have always seen Republicans in disagreement.....this change in the Dems, I think, is that they're beginning to listen to ALL the people, not just their welfare base.

Beamish, I didn't look for the guy's name, thanks...but I did know the story; actually, I'd wished a few times that I'd kept that video and am glad you brought it here. That the media didn't go after this with normal curiosity in their veins is yet another showing that they either don't have curiosity or agenda drives them too strongly to care in case that curiosity shows their agenda SUCKS.

Ticker, WOW...thanks for that information; it shows how much Americans don't hear, doesn't it. Ya, everybody FREAKS OUT that FOX HAS SOME ARAB BACKING (I don't much love that, either, by the way, but thank goodness they do speak out against muslims if it's deserved) but SOROS can OWN THE WORLD and "that's SO COOL!" :-)
@(#$*&@(*#$&(@*#&


Man, you people...I love these conversations, it makes me feel fabulous that y'all come here and vent and exchange information and duke it out. THANK YOU.

NOw pray this pain subsides, please...it's about 80% better but still hurts like a...@#($*&#@(*$

beamish said...

To me, the jury's still out on wmd.

Mine's not.

My cousin in the Army helped removed thousands of tons of chemical pesticides from Iraqi military depots. (Saddam was prepared to go to war with bugs, I guess)

These chemicals, when mixed together in flight by a binary artillery shell, become sarin gas and blister agents.

You know, the only WMD Saddam Hussein was known to use.

Ticker said...

"SOROS can OWN THE WORLD and "that's SO COOL!" :-)
@(#$*&@(*#$&(@*#&"

You would not believe all the "NEW" and ADDED stocks just this year to his holdings. Among the 821 stocks he owns, 280 are new positions from the first quarter. These are the details.

George Soros owns 821 stocks with a total value of $6.7 BILLION as of 03/31/2010.

Like loads of OIL COMPANIES and ENERGY COMPANIES, HEALTH CARE COMPANIES(does that surprise you?)
Another no surprise: Autochina International Ltd.

Now for the surprise of surprises and if I EVER hear a LIBTARD say something about Cheney or Bush and this company I'll personally slap them silly. HALLIBURTON COMPANY

Z said...

this actually happened tonight;

I watching a LOT of TV news with this illness and was channel surfing and thought I'd put on MSNBC...
There was Alan Colmes and I wondered if he had his own show on there now...then I saw that guy who heads the Guardian Angels, and another leftwinger, and that Conservative financial guy Charles Payne... I SWEAR I thought "I've got to get to my blog and admit that MSNBC had BOTH SIDES on tonight! I apologize after all I"ve said about FOX being the only one which constantly has both sides represented, they were pretty responsible on this Colmes Show!"
A second later, I realized I had FOX BUSINESS CHANNEL ON...
I changed to MSNBC and there was Rachel Maddow 'duking it out' with some leftwinger who completely agreed with her on everything. MAN.

Well, I tried to be honest..!

By the way, re Bush and TARP...the left jumped for it, remember?
Too bad they didn't listen when he kept warning about the housing market and Freddie and Fannie...noooo...got to insult him when it goes against the agenda. HAD THEY LISTENED......maybe they could have done something to avoid what we've got now....maybe not, who'll ever know?

Law and Order Teacher said...

Z,
My mother is completely addicted to MSNBC. She doesn't know any better. I've spent the last few months taking care of her and bless her heart, she thinks they are the Demos. Someone her age thinks this is the party of Truman. Sorry that's gone.

Ducky's here said...

z, let's put the housing fiasco in terms that are easy to understand. The worst of the crisis occurred in the investment banking sector which kept writing instruments that assumed housing prices would never drop, after all they never did before, right?

It was like your bookie only taking action on the over, only the book wouldn't be that stupid. So not only were the Masters of the Universe greedy, they were dumb.

The market was a colossal failure and thanks to the removal of regulations by Raygun, Clintoon and Bush it mortally wounded the world economy.

Now since the right is so naive that they have structured their entire economic belief system on the insane notion that whatever the market does is optimal you have a tough time accepting the destruction of your house of cards but there it is ... markets fail.

We actually had things under control before St. Ronnie Raygun got silly and it will benefit you to learn that.

Z said...

Ducky, I'm leaving your comment of such insulting, professorial and hugely egotistical tone up only because people need to see this and respond.
Gee, Ducky, "markets fail"? REALLY? must be Reagan's fault :-)
I wish Bush had been listened to.
I wish leftwinger Daniel Mudd hadn't been cajoled into promoting loans for people who can't afford their own homes..BUT, the left feels that's part of "the pursuit of happiness"

And you think I'm naive?

Law and Order..your MOTHER is an MSNBC fan? I KIND of am for the comedy relief of it ...I laugh at their disdain for anyone who thinks different...while they espouse OPEN MINDS.. it truly has become funny!
GOod to hear from you...you're very missed. And Merry Christmas L&O

beamish said...

Man, you people...I love these conversations, it makes me feel fabulous that y'all come here and vent and exchange information and duke it out. THANK YOU.

Sorry about going medieval on Craig.

It's how I respond to the uncontrollable left-wing urge to threaten violence.

Like Keith Olbermann types would really pick up "pitchforks and torches."

Who are these pussies kidding?

Z said...

Beamish, you do know I wasn't being sarcastic, right?

beamish said...

Neither was I.

Craig said...

I suppose it's just fine that Soros owns stock in Direct TV, Verizon, Google, AOL, Cable Systems Corp, Turner Broadcasting, Time Warner Corp,(Subsidiaries:...

Yes, Ticker, I think it's just fine. I also think it's just fine for Prince Alwaleed to own a substantial portion (I never said majority) of News Corp. I just thought it was funny that one of the central players in youse guyses latest conspiracy fantasy is also funding the Fox Jihad.

Ticker, it's not me who thinks Soros is out for Commie, Authoritarian
World Domination. In fact he's used his wealth to help bring Capitalism to Eastern Europe. Now go back to Dictionary.com and find the definition of hypocrisy before you call people hypocrites.

Craig said...

I'm going to kick your bitch ass twice if you don't show up...It's how I respond to the uncontrollable left-wing urge to threaten violence.

I wasn't sure if you would get it that I was funnin' with you. I thought using words like "sock" and "Adam's apple" would make it obvious, so I started the next sentence with, "But, seriously".

Sure! You can make his family watch me piss on his face.

beamish, I know you have a distorted understanding of history and economics and suffer from delusions of adequacy, but I never pegged you as the 'water sports' type. Interesting. Twisted, but interesting.

Craig said...

CRAIG: MANY SCIENTISTS DON'T BELIEVE IT,

Most do. Including many of the skeptics. They may disagree with cause or the magnitude, but it is indisputable that the earth is warming due to increasing concentrations of CO2, methane and other heat trapping gases.

FrogBurger said...

Wow Ducky, you know so much and your IQ is so high you taught me something today about market failing.

What else doesn't fail in life? Life is full of ups and downs, like nature. I know it seems cliche but that's the truth. Even your Soviets went through that and ended up failing. Nothing lasts forever.

So just accept it like a man. Maybe it's time for you to realize life is just what it is. Stop the intellectual masturbation, Ducky.

FrogBurger said...

In fact he's used his wealth to help bring Capitalism to Eastern Europe.

Getafix, do you have another PDF you haven't looked at carefully to enlighten me on this one? I'm ready to believe you with serious arguments. Not magic potion.

Craig said...

Getafix, do you have another PDF you haven't looked at carefully to enlighten me on this one? I'm ready to believe you with serious arguments. Not magic potion.

I wasn't much interested in Soros until he became the Right's #1 boogeyman. He's an interesting character and someone deserving the praise of Freedom Loving Patriots like you guys, not the paranoid fear.

According to Neil Clark in the New Statesman, Soros's role was crucial in the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe.[50] From 1979, as an advocate of 'open societies', Soros financially supported dissidents including Poland's Solidarity movement, Charter 77 in Czechoslovakia and Andrei Sakharov in the Soviet Union[39] donating $3 million a year according to Clark.[50] In 1984, he founded his first Open Society Institute in Hungary and pumped millions of dollars into opposition movements and independent media. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Soros' funding has continued to play an important role in the former Soviet sphere. His funding of pro-democratic programs in of Georgia was considered by Russian and Western observers to be crucial to the success of the Rose Revolution, although Soros has said that his role has been "greatly exaggerated."[51] Alexander Lomaia, Secretary of the Georgian Security Council and former Minister of Education and Science, is a former Executive Director of the Open Society Georgia Foundation (Soros Foundation), overseeing a staff of 50 and a budget of $2,500,000.[52]

Former Georgian Foreign Minister Salomé Zourabichvili wrote that institutions like the Soros Foundation were the cradle of democratisation and that all the NGOs which gravitated around the Soros Foundation undeniably carried the revolution. She opines that after the revolution the Soros Foundation and the NGOs were integrated into power


This frightens you? Remember, Glenn Beck is a self described Rodeo Clown, nothing more.

Getafix,

I'm no longer Druid. Pan Gu is where it's at.

Craig said...

Soros' Open Societies Foundation was named after Karl Popper's "Open Societies and Their Enemies". Popper had a huge influence on Soros. Ask Hayek expert, beamish, who Karl Popper is. He should know.

Z said...

CRAIG, WAKE UP... you don't mind Soros.>FINE. We're AMericans, we have the right to be constantly astounded by his hatred for the country and what he does to promote whatever the heck plan he's got.
also, you didn't provide any proof of Soros and Capitalism in Europe but, who cares?: Europe isn't America; He just might not detest Europe quite as much as this country.

Z said...

Craig...I'm not fighting anymore this week.
You're a leftwinger who screams harder; you win.
America loses.
Congratulations.

FrogBurger said...

Does it frighten me? What frightens me is imbeciles like you that believes b/c Soros has or may have pumped money to fight the soviets that he is not a socialist or someone who doesn't have a collectivist mindset.

As far as I'm concerned he is a "progressive." Doesn't he finance the Center for American Progress? And progressives these days are not really freedom and individual-right lover. They are actually closer to fascists to me in the ways they want to regulate behaviors, food we ingest, money we make etc...

Your mind is too simplistic Craig.
Again your logic, like Ducky's, is the one of a sophist.

He fought the Soviets, therefore he's not Communist, therefore you guys are wrong.

Not very convincing. Too infantile of a point.

FrogBurger said...

I'm no longer Druid. Pan Gu is where it's at.

Whatever it takes to make you feel good.

I myself moved on from the tooth fairy and Santa Klaus.

FrogBurger said...

You're a leftwinger who screams harder;

Not even that. He'a former Druid, now pangu express lover clown.

For Xmas, I now want Craig's and Ducky's bobbleheads. It's getting funnier every day on this blog.

FrogBurger said...

it is indisputable that the earth is warming due to increasing concentrations of CO2, methane and other heat trapping gases.

Indisputable?

How about other factors? Did your simple brain ever think about critical things in the universe such as distance to the sun, sun activity, earth axis shifts, other planet influence, earth rotation speed, etc...

All kinds of factors that do influence climate, temperatures, streams, etc...

So it is not indisputable. Right now climatology is not even an accurate science in terms of modeling because of all those intertwined factors. And the base for statistics is not even of good quality.

God you're a simplistic mind.

Really get a clue, ask yourself the right questions.

It's frightening to me your type elects people in office.

Z said...

FB, I can't find the articles I"d bookmarked....I've got to clean out my bookmarks but don't know quite how :-(
Mr. Z was extremely up on this subject and, sadly, much of his correspondence with others was 'auf Deutsch'...:-(

Here's the deal: When someone suggests all global climate change
A. isn't happening any more than usual
B. isn't caused 100% by humans
C. isn't under Al Gore's control
that someone is called someone who hates water and air by the KoolAid drinkers.

That's how they shut good thought DOWN: go to the extreme of the Right's case and ATTACK.
It's EXTREMELY effective on people who aren't listening.

Did you see Caroline Heldman on TV last night? "Yes I believe all people deserve healthcare..yes, I believe all people deserve a job and that includes housewives in their own homes, they need compensation because they work, too......etcetc....and SHE IS TEACHING OUR COLLEGE KIDS AT OCCIDENTAL. There's no stopping the left...they offer beguiling deals; amnesty, free health care, jobs for all, PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS means GIVE 'EM EVERYTHING! (Since WHEN?)

By the way, this is a college prof and when shew as asked "you think the government should pay for all of that?" She said "I think peoples' TAXES should pay for all of that!" She corrected Hannity two or three times with that AS IF THAT"S DIFFERENT? These people honestly don't understand OUR TAX MONEY IS GOVERNMENT MONEY! SHE IS A PROFESSOR >>.MY GOD !:-)

Always On Watch said...

Still rolling in the dust over here, I see.

Ticker said...

Hmm , lets see Craig about the Soros and capitalism thing.
He "broke the Bank of England"(1992) with his speculations on the Pound Sterling. He destroyed the Russian Rubble.(98-99) He brought the Indonesian economic system to its knees.He sticks his nose into other governments economies knowing that his attention will bring attention which is usually negative and create a fortune for him and a loss for everyone else. Soros is for Soros, not capitalism for certain. He stated that he would bring the US economy to it's knees.(that due to his hatred for Bush)He sold short soon after 9/11 which did this country's economy no favor. Other countries other than France have convicted him of insider trading which adversely effected the economy of those countries. Control is Soros' objective and nothing more. So Craig continue to piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

FrogBurger said...

Caroline Heldman

She's a crazy. Talk about unsustainable ideas.

And you know what? She looks so angry when she's on TV. Not one of her ideas are based on rational thoughts. All is emotion-based.

I can't believe she has a PhD and she's teaching. The brainwashing must be pretty intense.

I think she needs a boyfriend.

Z said...

AOW "Still rolling in the dust over here, I see."
My favorite part about my blog is our terrific conversations! :-)

Ticker...it ain't rainin'...somebody's got to set these people straight. you're right on all of your comments. LIke my husband used to say "What kind of man hedges on others' misfortunes?"

SOROS

Z said...

FB, ya, SHE is teaching. OH, GOD.

FrogBurger said...

Tax people 90%?!?

She hasn't figured out that I'll stop working if that happens.

She's the type to have re-education camps to force me to work then. That's the only way she could make her ideas work. Psycho!

Z said...

FB, you really made me laugh! (no small feat today, TRUST me..)
yes, she did think 90% was a dandy idea...
Are MAO JACKETS EXPENSIVE? :-)

FrogBurger said...

Honestly people like her should go live in a different country. Because it's so off the culture. It's like me trying to make French people pro-market. It's easier to leave than to go against the grain.

Z said...

FB...now the leftwingers will accuse you of wanting anybody out of the country who doesn't agree with you, right? We can't even say things like that anymore without the PC Idiot POlice.....

Yes, she's SO anathema to anything truly American I thought that even she almost cracked a "can you believe what I'm saying" smile while she was spewing that ridiculous extreme opinion...
When Leslie Marshall doesn't agree with a leftwinger, you know that leftwinger's off the deep end.

I'd say she should leave for her sake; sometimes I even wonder why Ducky and others like him would want to live here with the hate and disdain and misconception of this country.

FrogBurger said...

No she can stay. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying she's just off the charts in the US. Like I am in France.

FrogBurger said...

I'd say she should leave for her sake; sometimes I even wonder why Ducky and others like him would want to live here with the hate and disdain and misconception of this country.

Exactly.

I think it's because they can't look at things straight and can't accept the imperfection of this world. And maybe they're so miserable, they want everyone to share their misery. Sadly it gives them a purpose in life.

FrogBurger said...

I'd say she should leave for her sake; sometimes I even wonder why Ducky and others like him would want to live here with the hate and disdain and misconception of this country.

Exactly.

I think it's because they can't look at things straight and can't accept the imperfection of this world. And maybe they're so miserable, they want everyone to share their misery. Sadly it gives them a purpose in life.

Always On Watch said...

Dust rolling is good.

But when I saw that threat to Beamish, I said, "Uh oh." I know what Beamish is capable of. **smile**

beamish said...

Sure! You can make his family watch me piss on his face.

beamish, I know you have a distorted understanding of history and economics and suffer from delusions of adequacy, but I never pegged you as the 'water sports' type. Interesting. Twisted, but interesting.

I didn't account for the possibility that your family enjoys watching you get knocked out, robbed, and pissed on. They must be proud.

beamish said...

Z: You're a leftwinger who screams harder;

FB: Not even that. He'a former Druid, now pangu express lover clown.

Worse. He's someone so caught up in introvertive fantasies that he believes the internet is a means to communicate with some place called "not real life."

beamish said...

I wasn't sure if you would get it that I was funnin' with you. I thought using words like "sock" and "Adam's apple" would make it obvious, so I started the next sentence with, "But, seriously".

It was enough for me to reveal that once a leftist's ability to threaten violence is removed, they've got nothing serious to offer.

beamish said...

Soros' Open Societies Foundation was named after Karl Popper's "Open Societies and Their Enemies". Popper had a huge influence on Soros. Ask Hayek expert, beamish, who Karl Popper is. He should know.

Karl Popper was a Fabian socialist.

FrogBurger said...

Beamish those people are so confused.

I'm reading the open society entry on wikkipedia and it's in full contradiction of what those people want to do in practice.

Example: 'Popper's theory that knowledge is provisional and fallible implies that society must be open to alternative points of view'.

That's why the progressive want fairness doctrine and hate tea party rebels.

Each time I hear the word progress and open coming from their mouth, I want to throw up.

Z said...

FB "Example: 'Popper's theory that knowledge is provisional and fallible implies that society must be open to alternative points of view'."

They'd love to apply this to the Constitution, right? (brother!)

"open"? To respecting a woman's choice NOT to abort? To understanding that it's not a good idea to pay illegal law breakers? To a simple, beautiful Christmas carol or nativity scene in every town square that wants one?
To soldiers who'd rather stay anonymous in their sexuality? To having news cover BOTH sides of every issue? well..we could all go on and on. OPEN, from the LEFT?
That's hilarious!

FrogBurger said...

Z, It's a major philosophical battle.

Seeking the ultimate truth, the unique truth is a nice goal. However, I'm amongst the ones that believe we'll never ever achieve it.

All human truths are human-based and therefore cannot be THE truth.

Only God knows the truth. And even the concept of God is human.

So basically people like Soros who want to make sure everyone is aiming for some absolute truth haven't really understood the human nature and are seeking something they'll never find. A utopia. And they want us to bend over backward for it.

Well they can simply go cook themselves an egg as I like to say in French.

Z said...

well, FB, we could possibly have achieved it once but not anymore...not without Faith. THAT has to be the ultimate truth or this whole earthly crap is for nothing :-)

beamish said...

Fabian socialism and Marxist socialism differ in methods, but not in goals.

Fabianism is named for the Roman dictator Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus, particularly his attrition warfare tactics.

Gradual, incremental change of government to state / national socialism by wearing down the "enemy's" will and ability to fight it.

How leftists of this stripe figure they're not fascists after naming their philosophy after one is something of a proof of leftism's magnetic attraction of imbeciles and no other.

beamish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
beamish said...

Buy health insurance or face fines and imprisonment, shut up or get socked in the Adam's apple.

It's all the same turd in a "new, improved" dialectical materialist candy bar wrapper.

beamish said...

Eating crap and imagining it's a Hershey bar.

That's "progress."

Craig said...

How about other factors? Did your simple brain ever think about critical things in the universe such as distance to the sun, sun activity, earth axis shifts, other planet influence, earth rotation speed, etc...

My simple brain didn't think it was wise to lay out the entire case for Anthropogenic Global Warming in one blog comment.

All of those things have been known for some time and are part of calculating AGW and climate change. Milankovitch Cycles, eccentricity, obliquity, and precession are fairly well understood and by themselves can't account for the current warming trend. If anything, the earth is nearing it's least elliptical orbit and we should be cooling. This forcing is being overtaken by forcing from greenhouse gas.

Earth rotation speed declines at a relatively steady (with fits and starts) pace of 1.4 milliseconds per century. Some climate scientists have hypothesized the rotation might speed up due to melting ice sheets. long explanation I won't go into now. Anyway, rotation speed doesn't show any causation.

Solar radiation obviously effects temps but despite trying really hard, no one has has credibly linked the solar cycle (max./min.) to climate change. Friis-Christensen and Lassen, a paper published in Science in 1991, is often cited by deniers as the link but it has been thoroughly discredited. They kept changing their smoothing methods until they got the result they wanted. Cheaters.

I can't say for sure what role solar forcing plays. Finding a clean signal in proxy paleo-records is the big hurdle. You need to show a trend over multi- decadal time scales. What we do know for sure, since satellites have been able to take unpolluted measurements of radiation hitting the earth, is that there has been NO CHANGE in radiation since the 1950's.

One thing climate scientists have completely ignored, I think you will be interested in this, is whether the earth is flat and circular, like a pizza, or flat and square, like a pizza box.

Craig said...

Buy health insurance or face fines and imprisonment, shut up or get socked in the Adam's apple.

First, I apologize for my attempt, and failure, to mock, in jest, your obnoxious aggression (you're over compensating for something) with a reference to physical violence. I'm sorry.

There is no provision in the health ins. reform bill that would result in anyone's imprisonment. It's simply not true.

Technically, it's not a fine, either. Congress imposed a new tax. You are exempt from that tax if you buy health ins. It's the same as the following example. I'm guessing you have no kids. Let's say Redwood has six kids since he's a manly man and wood is right there in his name. Redwood gets a tax exemption for each kid, you don't. Are you being fined for not having kids?

I think the bill is way over complicated and a giveaway to the Ins. Co.s, so I'm not really defending it. But, if you're going to oppose it, oppose it for what it is, not with ridiculous strawman arguments.

beamish said...

First, I apologize for my attempt, and failure, to mock, in jest, your obnoxious aggression (you're over compensating for something) with a reference to physical violence. I'm sorry.

What obnoxious aggression? I revealed, quite handily, that Dave Miller's mendacious mischaracterization of AOW's comment made him a twit more than it made any attempt at rationality. This set you off to make threats and sling personal attacks at me. You want to "sock me in the Adam's apple" rather than have an honest discussion, which would begin with you admitting up front that you're an imbecile.

To that we can also agree that you're a cowardly little bitch. Why don't you come see how much I'm "overcompensating," you pussy? Bring beer money.

There is no provision in the health ins. reform bill that would result in anyone's imprisonment. It's simply not true.

Technically, it's not a fine, either. Congress imposed a new tax. You are exempt from that tax if you buy health ins. It's the same as the following example. I'm guessing you have no kids. Let's say Redwood has six kids since he's a manly man and wood is right there in his name. Redwood gets a tax exemption for each kid, you don't. Are you being fined for not having kids?


Strawman idiocy. You face fines and imprisonment when you don't pay an assessed tax. Please tell me this isn't news to you, imbecile.

Did the Virginia state attorney general take a "strawman" case to federal court and get the individual mandate ruled unconstitutional, you twit, you moron, you dipshit?

Start small. Get on the same page as everyone else. Admit you're an idiot so we can move forward get to the points that are actually contestable.

beamish said...

My simple brain didn't think it was wise to lay out the entire case for Anthropogenic Global Warming in one blog comment.

So far you haven't laid out the case for "Anthropogenic Global Warming" in ANY comment.

Just so your simple brain has a head's up on what thinking wisely looks like.

Craig said...

So far you haven't laid out the case for "Anthropogenic Global Warming" in ANY comment.

I don't have to. Go educate yourself. NO ONE has scientifically falsified it.

Did the Virginia state attorney general take a "strawman" case to federal court and get the individual mandate ruled unconstitutional, you twit, you moron, you dipshit?

I think so. Two Fed judges upheld it before Republican Judge Hudson made his flawed ruling. Conservative legal scholar, Orin Kerr, concurs.

Strawman idiocy. You face fines and imprisonment when you don't pay an assessed tax. Please tell me this isn't news to you, imbecile.

This (in quotes) is in the final language of the bill,

In the Senate, the Finance Committee’s health care bill was amended to nullify the possibility of jail time for not paying the penalty tax. It stipulates that in the case of nonpayment, "such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure."

Imprisonment is extremely rare for failing to pay Fed. income tax. Dumbhead Stupidpants.

Why don't you come see how much I'm "overcompensating," you pussy? Bring beer money.

You're just making it worse.

beamish said...

So far you haven't laid out the case for "Anthropogenic Global Warming" in ANY comment.

I don't have to. Go educate yourself. NO ONE has scientifically falsified it.

Were you not a leftist imbecile and capable of being rational, you'd see how patently silly and fallacious it is for you to ask your opponents to disprove the existence of a non-existent phenonomenon. Were you not a leftist imbecile, you'd be making a testable, verifiable claim such as I and may others have done repeatedly in demonstrating that you're an idiot.

Science hasn't falsified the existence of gremlins that make comments from leftists decidedly void of intellect, but it's a far safer assumption that leftists are all imbecilic blowhards than blaming mythical creatures for the phenomenon.

Now, this "anthopogenic global warming" fairy monster you've druidically dowsed up (or is it pan gooed up, I'm not hip on the latest shill thrills). Prove the phenomenon exists, or sit the hell down, assclown.

beamish said...

Why don't you come see how much I'm "overcompensating," you pussy? Bring beer money.

You're just making it worse.

How so? You're only going to get your bitch ass knocked out, robbed, and pissed on if you show up to "sock me in the Adam's apple" for not shutting up.

I'm not going to shut up, pussy.

We both know you're not going to do anything about it either showing up or not.

You know who to ask for my address when you want to come get beaten, robbed, and pissed on.

The door's open. C'mon in.

craig said...

Were you not a leftist imbecile and capable of being rational, you'd see how patently silly and fallacious it is for you to ask your opponents to disprove the existence of a non-existent phenonomenon.

There are multiple lines of evidence that prove the earth is warming. You can ignore it, deny it, or refute it. It's there. Here's a nice little primer for you.

Or, you can stay ignorant.

If I ever get to St. Louis, I'll let you know. If you ever get to Minneapolis, let me know. You can beat me and rob me, but I have to draw the line on your homo-erotic fantasy of urinating on me. Until then, this swinging your dick around is getting tedious. I get it, you're a tough guy. On the internet, anyway.

beamish said...

Were you not a leftist imbecile and capable of being rational, you'd see how patently silly and fallacious it is for you to ask your opponents to disprove the existence of a non-existent phenonomenon.

There are multiple lines of evidence that prove the earth is warming.

Fail.

We're looking for evidence of "anthropogenic global warming," you imbecile.

I have evidence that you're an idiot. I don't have evidence that fairy dust-slinging munchkins are making you look like an idiot.

If I ever get to St. Louis, I'll let you know. If you ever get to Minneapolis, let me know.

Where in Minneapolis? I can be there tomorrow.

You can beat me and rob me, but I have to draw the line on your homo-erotic fantasy of urinating on me.

As if your unconscious, broken body would have have a choice?

Until then, this swinging your dick around is getting tedious. I get it, you're a tough guy. On the internet, anyway.

No, I'm a guy that eats pussy ass bitches like you for breakfast. Online, and off.

Try me, Mr. "sock you in the Adam's apple."

Typical leftist. Never bringing reality to anything.

Craig said...

Meet me in front of the Holiday station on the corner of Diamond Lake Road and Nicollet Ave. at 6:00 pm CST, Tues. Dec. 21.

FrogBurger said...

Craig I appreciate the nice explanations.

we should be cooling

Actually we may be. It's colder in Europe where I used to live. I was watching a documentary on Siberia where a climate guy was talking about temperatures getting cooler. It was even pretty mild in LA this year overall.

I am not denying climate change. I'm denying the warming aspect of it and the sole blaming of human activity when climatology is not a mature science. Especially when most temperature stats are pretty young in terms of science age. And also when many of those stats have come first from urban areas.

The other aspect that people forget: the role of climate is to regulate temperature. So we don't actually know how the climate will react and adapt to that. It may get cooler, more rainy, more snowy to counteract the potential effect of greenhouse gases and cool the planet down.

Craig said...

Craig I appreciate the nice explanations.

Thanks. I appreciate your willingness to have a reasonable discussion.

Actually we may be. It's colder in Europe where I used to live.

This has actually been predicted. Although it is not conclusive, science is like that, several studies have linked increased melting of Kara and Barents sea ice results in higher surface air temps and creates a blocking effect. This causes a weak North Atlantic Oscillation. NAO is the current that brings warm tropic waters north and are responsible for normally moderate winters in western Europe and eastern U.S.

Here's a short read.

This is what happened last year when the east coast got whacked with those huge snow storms. It also results in more moderate and dryer winters in Canada, Greenland and parts of Siberia. Remember they had to truck in snow for the Vancouver Olympics?

I was watching a documentary on Siberia where a climate guy was talking about temperatures getting cooler.

I'm not familiar with that. Most of the literature I've seen lately is talking about thawing of the Siberian permafrost. This is really disturbing since thawing releases methane, which is about 20 times more efficient at trapping heat than CO2. It's a 'positive feedback'. Basically, that's what is meant by 'tipping point'. Gases start the heating, melting snow and ice, lower albedo rate, less heat energy reflected back to space, more melting, trapped CO2 and methane being released, more heating, on and on. There's a point when limiting Co2 emissions won't matter.

I am not denying climate change. I'm denying the warming aspect of it and the sole blaming of human activity when climatology is not a mature science.

Warming has occurred since the beginning of instrumentation. It tracks closely with the increase of CO2 PPM.

Especially when most temperature stats are pretty young in terms of science age.

They have been able to match proxies (ice cores, tree rings, sediment) with instrument readings of the last 150 years or so. They're quite accurate and can track climate back 1000's of years with high confidence.

Craig said...

And also when many of those stats have come first from urban areas.

The 'Urban heat island' has been accounted for. Satellite data confirms it.

The other aspect that people forget: the role of climate is to regulate temperature. So we don't actually know how the climate will react and adapt to that. It may get cooler, more rainy, more snowy to counteract the potential effect of greenhouse gases and cool the planet down.

Paleoclimatology gives us a pretty good idea how climate reacts. It operates according to the laws of Physics. I hope they're wrong and everything will be just fine but the more I study, the more I think we're headed for deep doodoo.

beamish said...

Meet me in front of the Holiday station on the corner of Diamond Lake Road and Nicollet Ave. at 6:00 pm CST, Tues. Dec. 21.

Don't forget your beer money.

beamish said...

Paleoclimatology gives us a pretty good idea how climate reacts.

Yep. It shows cyclical temperature changes in past earth history with no "anthropogenic" causation necessary to attribute to it.

It shows what we see now, that geological activity (volcanoes, earthquakes, etc.) account for changes in "greenhouse gas" levels than any level of industrial activity from mankind.

I for one hope they DO find a way to tie man's activities to weather changes. Imagine the weapon applications if we could figure out when and where to release C02 to cause acid rain tornadoes to strike our enemies.

Craig said...


It shows what we see now, that geological activity (volcanoes, earthquakes, etc.) account for changes in "greenhouse gas" levels than any level of industrial activity from mankind.


Milankovitch Cycles account for glaciations and interglacials. Ice core samples show the amount of CO2 trapped in each layer and the EPICA core gives readings back 800k years. The highest CO2 concentration was 300PPM, 350k years ago. Today it's 390PPM. The natural fluctuation in global temps is .5 degree C over 1000 years. We've seen a rise of .75 dC in just the last 100 years.

The amount of CO2 released each year from all degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes lie in a range from 132 million to 378 million metric tons per year. Human activities are responsible for some 36,300 million metric tons of CO2 emissions, at least a hundred times more CO2 annually than all the world’s volcanoes.

Even a super volcano wouldn't cause the warming we are currently seeing. Aerosoles, energy reflecting particulates, released would, by far, over take any gas forcing and lead to rapid cooling.

So, from instrumentation, we know the earth is warming at a rate unprecedented in, at least, the last 800k years. We know, for sure, CO2 levels have been rising since the start of the industrial rev. and the laws of physics prove CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Absent any other forcing known to date, the rational conclusion is, human activity is causing global warming.

beamish said...

The amount of CO2 released each year from all degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes lie in a range from 132 million to 378 million metric tons per year. Human activities are responsible for some 36,300 million metric tons of CO2 emissions, at least a hundred times more CO2 annually than all the world’s volcanoes.

Epic fail.

Just 36,300,000,000,000 metric tons of carbon dioxide emitted by mankind's activities a year?

Is that all?

I though we were talking about a lot.

Rotting vegetation, dead trees, oceanwater bicarbonates, volcanic / geological activity, and all other natural sources of carbon dioxide emission around the world account for 96.5% of all carbon dioxide emissions sources. Mankind's activities are responsible for only 3.5% of carbon dioxide emissions. If you want to scale global CO2 emissions from humanity's fossil fuel burning alone against the whole, that's just 0.6% of the world's CO2 emissions, natural and "anthropogenic" combined.

Even as ocean bicarbonates break down and release CO2, the ocean absorbs CO2 and creates more bicarbonates. This very natural process removes 60% of the emitted CO2 from the atmosphere per year, leaving 40% of all emitted C02 to account for most of the 0.0387% of the atmosphere that is C02.

Remember, we're talking about a gas that only makes up 0.0387% of the atmosphere. Cycling, not going anywhere anymore than the Earth is going to realistically ever run out of oxygen or dirt or stupid leftists.

There's a far more dangerous heat-trapping greenhouse gas out there in abundance.

Ever heard of dihydrogen monoxide?

beamish said...

Even a super volcano wouldn't cause the warming we are currently seeing.

Except we've seen temperatures cooling over the last 10 years. We are NOT in a warming cycle, by any stretch.

Go ahead, laugh at the enviro-whackos that said we'd never see snowfall again. We do. Every winter.

Craig said...

I though we were talking about a lot.

Enough to raise the global temp. .74 dC. Before the industrial revolution, every gigatonne of carbon going into the atmosphere was balanced by one coming out. Just saying it's a small amount in relationship to naturally occurring CO2 or in relationship to the total atmosphere doesn't tell anything. Except you don't know what your talking about. If it's so insignificant, how do you account for the rise in global temp?

Ever heard of dihydrogen monoxide?

So clever, beavis.
Water vapor is a greenhouse gas. It is not a forcing. The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is a function of temp. If there is too much water, it rains. Too little, evaporation. It's self regulating.

CO2 from human activity remains in the atmosphere, for up to 100 years. Oceans and other carbon sinks can only absorb so much before they become saturated. Before that they acidify, kill coral and generally destroy marine life.

Except we've seen temperatures cooling over the last 10 years. We are NOT in a warming cycle, by any stretch.

Show me the data. You're dead wrong.

Go ahead, laugh at the enviro-whackos that said we'd never see snowfall again.

Really? Someone said that? Then they are as uninformed as you.

FrogBurger said...

Before the industrial revolution, every gigatonne of carbon going into the atmosphere was balanced by one coming out.

Wow. Did we gather stats precisely about that back then? I don't think so. So you sound really dumb on that one.

CO2 from human activity remains in the atmosphere, for up to 100 years.

How is it measured precisely? Do they track the particles of CO2 with a chip?


Show me the data. You're dead wrong.


The way you're believing in poorly collected stats makes you wrong too. You're to gullible.

beamish said...

I though we were talking about a lot.

Enough to raise the global temp. .74 dC. Before the industrial revolution, every gigatonne of carbon going into the atmosphere was balanced by one coming out.

And the processes by which emitted C02 is re-absorbed by the oceans (and the plants that require CO2) removes 60% of emitted CO2, leaving only 40% of global CO2 emissions to accumulate in the atmosphere. An accumulation we can measure as 0.0387% of the entire atmosphere, a figure which demonstrates how insignificant present CO2 levels actually are in terms of affecting global temperatures. It's also a figure that has remained fairly constant and consistent over Earth's history, humanity's contribution or not. Even after 200 or so years of the glorious industrial revolution, the Earth's natural processes themselves are still producing annually some 28 times more CO2 emissions that human activity.

Just saying it's a small amount in relationship to naturally occurring CO2 or in relationship to the total atmosphere doesn't tell anything.

Sure it does. For one it reveals the amount of the total planetarian CO2 emissions humanity is actually responsible for (3.5%) and the amount of CO2 emissions the burning of fossil fuels is specifically responsible for (0.6%). When it comes to "polluting" the atmosphere with a naturally occuring substance like CO2, humanity is a bunch of pikers compared to Mother Earth.

Except you don't know what your talking about. If it's so insignificant, how do you account for the rise in global temp?

What rise? 0.7 degree C over the last 100 years? What is that? A "rise" of 0.007 degree C every year since 1910? Be still my Chicken Little heart!

beamish said...

Ever heard of dihydrogen monoxide?

So clever, beavis.
Water vapor is a greenhouse gas. It is not a forcing. The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is a function of temp. If there is too much water, it rains. Too little, evaporation. It's self regulating.


So too are C02 levels.

CO2 from human activity remains in the atmosphere, for up to 100 years. Oceans and other carbon sinks can only absorb so much before they become saturated. Before that they acidify, kill coral and generally destroy marine life.

The largest producer of CO2 emissions on our planet is in fact our oceans, followed by the rotting and fermentation of dead plant and animal life in the wild (including in our oceans). The oceanological processes that both remove CO2 emissions and produce CO2 emissions are no where near overwhelmed or "saturated" by mankind's 3.5% contribution to global CO2 emissions, and certainly not by the 0.6% of CO2 emissions that burning fossil fuels are responsible for.

And "CO2 from human activity remains in the atmosphere, for up to 100 years?" Really? Do these CO2 molecules wear signs that visually segregate them from the 96.5% of CO2 molecules in the atmosphere emitted by natural processes that also remain in the atmosphere for up to 100 years?

Except we've seen temperatures cooling over the last 10 years. We are NOT in a warming cycle, by any stretch.

Show me the data. You're dead wrong.

Am I? The priests of the "global warming" pseudoscience / religion thought the observable climatic cooling trend significant enough to rename "global warming" into "climate change" or the more emotionally charged "global climate disruption!" One weeps for the trees felled and international flights flown to produce this garbage.

Go ahead, laugh at the enviro-whackos that said we'd never see snowfall again.

Really? Someone said that? Then they are as uninformed as you.

Not just "someone." That level of asinine imbecility was achieved by several global warming alarmists / climate change alarmists / global climate disruption alarmists / bullshit artists such as Al Gore and others.

It is exquisitely evident that "global warming" paranoids are so unfamiliar with their subject matter that they don't even know what it looks like.

They have a wealth redistribution agenda driving their bullshittery.

What's your excuse, Craig?

FrogBurger said...

Beamish CO2 from humans is different from CO2 from frogs.
CO2 from Conservatives is the worse. IT stays longer and is a real pollutant.
Whereas CO2 from leftists, as the industrial revolution showed us, is the good kind.

Likewise farts emitted by leftists brain don't contain as much methane as farts emitted by Conservatives.

All of that is proven science with data collected from the neanderthal through today.

If you don't believe it, you're denying the holocauste.

Point proven.

FrogBurger said...

Now that I think about it. If CO2 from human activity acts differently than CO2 from animals, that means that chemistry is wrong on the composition of molecules. So there's more to CO2 than just 2 atoms of oxygen and 1 of carbon.

Hey I'm ready to accept there are new things in chemistry every day but that would be a major finding.

FrogBurger said...

Or is it the binding of molecules that is different?

Craig I need more insight on this. Honestly now I want to know. This bugged my curiosity.

beamish said...

Frogburger,

You're forgetting that carbon emissions from underwater nuclear weapons testing could result in gigantism in the species Godzillasaurus rex, which would have disasterous effects on the Tokyo Bay fishing industry.

I've seen totally unbiased computer models. ;)

Anonymous said...

I've seen totally unbiased computer models. ;)

I believe you.

I have seen those models on my XBox 360. And on my Wii I can actually use the wiimote to change the graphs.
Pretty nice.

FrogBurger said...

That was FrogBurger

Craig said...

Frog and beamish. Arguments from ignorance just show your ignorance. beamish, I missed you last night. I waited 20 min. at the appointed corner and no beamish. What happened, hotshot?

FrogBurger said...

Frog and beamish. Arguments from ignorance just show your ignorance.

Get some humor for Xmas craig.

Also I asked you a question about CO2 that was genuine. So enlighten my ignorance instead.

I'd rather be ignorant and willing to learn than thinking I know it all and have no critical mind like you're showing us.

beamish said...

I missed you last night. I waited 20 min. at the appointed corner and no beamish. What happened, hotshot?

Your wife didn't tell you?