Monday, January 19, 2009

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Happy Birthday. Listen up, Sir...Priscilla and I have a few comments

When I saw this article, (the article, below, is all in black letters versus our comments in red and blue) I thought it might be something to post for today, Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday anniversary. It's not the typical glowing homage, that's for sure. But, I thought the author of the piece, Deepthi Hajela, had taken liberties with Dr. King and how he might feel today and I asked Priscilla to help me comment regarding the points made here and her take on what seems to be more truthful from our viewpoints. I hope that, as you read, you will think of ways to comment and contribute your thoughts. Thanks.

NEW YORK – The focus of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s acceptance speech for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1964 wasn't what had been accomplished — but rather his view of what still needed to be done.

More than four decades later, King scholars say he would take the same approach at this historic moment — the inauguration of the first black president at a time when the nation is facing its greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. The crisis could widen the already large financial gaps between whites and blacks and make it more difficult to attain King's dream of economic equality in America.

P: Economic equality will be attained when those who desire it approach their endeavors without believing they are victims.

Z: I wonder if the times haven't changed enough that Dr. King obviously saw difficulties for Black Americans then and, today, would feel we've come past that enough to totally agree with Priscilla, above. I think so. I hope so.

"I believe that Dr. King would caution us not to rest on the election of a black president and say our work here is done," said Kendra King, associate professor of politics at Oglethorpe University in Atlanta.

P: I think it's possible that today, Reverend King would be sad that his people have listened to the likes of Jesse Jackson as if they need someone to lead them. They don't. It is within themselves as it is within us all.

Z: has anybody in their right mind thought that the election of this president has meant our work is done in ANY capacity, racist or anything else?

Although King is best known for his civil rights work, he was a staunch advocate for economic justice. In the months before he was killed, he had been working on the Poor People's Campaign and calling for an economic bill of rights. When he was assassinated in 1968, he was in Memphis supporting a sanitation workers'
strike.

P: We need no economic bill of rights. We have all the rights we need. We need only accept that the journey isn’t easy and requires sacrifice, persistence, and hard work. It is the same for all regardless of skin color.

"Economic empowerment and justice was always a part of Dr. King's purpose,"
professor King said. "Civil rights without economic parity is still imprisonment."

P:The individual’s worst jailer is himself. If one is taught he is oppressed he tends to believe it. Blame his teachers. Those who school him in needing a hand up, are his worst enemy. what he needs is, forward thinking and confidence.

While the election of Barack Obama is a huge step toward King's dream of a time when people are judged on the content of their character and not their skin color, economic data shows racial disparities are still pervasive when it comes to financial equality.

Z: But, were Obama ALL white, would he have even been considered a viable candidate? I think even honest liberals would agree the answer is a resounding NO even WITH the Chicago mechine, Soros, ACORN and the like behind him.

From unemployment rates to wages to household income to home ownership rates, the differences are stark. For example, while white unemployment was at 6.6 percent in December, black unemployment was 11.9 percent. For black men, it was even higher, at 13.4 percent.

P: It serves no positive purpose to compare races. It accomplishes nothing but polarization. It also provides politicians more power as they can promise “change” and dependency on the government for generations.

Z: Is this a point dependent on COLOR or on self-reliance, hard work, and sacrifice?

Going beyond those simple statistics, studies show that economic mobility and the passage of wealth from one generation to another is more of a reality for whites than it is for blacks.
A report from the Economic Mobility Project that looked at income data over time found that black children were less likely than their white counterparts to earn more than their parents did. And being born to middle-class parents did not offer the same protections to black children as it did to whites. Among children whose parents were in the middle of the income scale, 45 percent of black children fell to the bottom of the income scale as adults, while only 16 percent of whites did.

P: If this is true, these are issues within the black community that only they can confront.

Z: the implication being Whites have held Black Americans back? HOW? ALL of them? What about Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, Bill Cosby, Dr. Alvin Toussant, Jesse Peterson, Cornell Wilde, Walt Williams, Justice Clarence Thomas, etc...............Barack Obama. What did these people have that didn't keep them down?

"Many more blacks experience poverty, many fewer experience affluence," said Mark Rank, a professor of social work at Washington University who studies poverty and economic inequality.
And in tough economic times like these, people who are more vulnerable have more to lose, said Charles Gallagher, professor of sociology at La Salle University in Philadelphia.

P:In times like this we all have more to lose. It’s not as if only black people struggle. There is no favored victim of hard times.

"The black middle class is precarious compared to the white middle class," he said.

Z: I'm thinking things are pretty darned precarious for everyone these days.

"I think it will have some long-lasting effects," Rank said of the current economic woes. "It's taken a long while to reduce some of those racial differences so this is just going to set that back."

P: This makes no sense, and I simply don’t believe it. It does come from a sociology professor does it not?

Z: Somebody tell that man WE ARE ALL SUFFERING. Maybe it'll cheer him up!

Fritz Jean, a 26-year-old college student and retail employee in New York City, has firsthand experience with economic disparity. The new father wants better for Quincy Zachariah Jean, born earlier this month; better than the schools he feels didn't prepare him for college the way his suburban white counterparts at the State University of New York's College at Old Westbury seem to be; better than living in the small apartment he grew up in that he now shares with his mother and girlfriend.

P: Well, Fritz should have foregone having a child until he was out of college, and on his way. This is a perfect example of making an irresponsible choice. He just made his road and his child’s road harder.

Z: Maybe marriage might help him, his girlfriend and his little boy. Bad choices aren't a race thing. Bad choices are DEFINITELY "equal opportunity", sadly.

"You want to own property, you want to have something to leave for your family, but you have to get that and to get that is already an uphill battle," he said.
He commutes up to four hours a day to school, trips that eat into the money he earns and take away from the hours he could work. He can't afford to take on the unpaid internships that other, more affluent students can, internships that make a difference in getting a job in radio, his career choice.

P: My own grandson (20) works part time, and takes 16 units in college. His job is not in the area he wishes to pursue when he graduates. Fritz’s doesn’t have to be either. Race has nothing to do with it.

Z: Mr. Jean, you don't even want to make a family by committing to the mother of your child! Could this attitude color all your choices and indecision and unhappiness?

"I do want to pay my dues, but I need to be able to pay my bills," he said.
The tough economic times are adding to his worries. "My concern is making sure I get out of school and can find a job. It's really hard ... when you know that last year alone so many jobs were lost," he said.

"I don't know what's going to happen," he said. "Me taking all these loans, I could still end up working at Ikea."

P: Yes, it is really hard. It usually is. Being an adult requires choices and decisions that are hard, but it can be done, and has been done by millions of people before now, and will be in the future. No one can give you success. You have to earn it. Regardless of who you are or what you choose in your life. Victimhood will only hold you back. Confidence will propel you forward.

Z: Dr. King, we as Americans should apologize to you. Some of us have allowed every problem these days to be blamed on racism instead of going past that and figuring out what else could cause the problems. We are proud of so many Black Americans and you'd be so proud, too. But, there's a prevailing feeling that Blacks aren't making it because the opportunity is not there yet. It IS there, sir, and we hope for another man like you to come along without a chip on his shoulders about White Americans and encourage Black Americans (I refuse to say "the Black Community" because we are the AMERICAN COMMUNITY) to do well in school, get good jobs, SUCCEED! We WANT all Americans to succeed! ALL American families need to encourage our children to be better disciplined, better educated, less blame-oriented. I believe you'd be behind that. I hope so.

Happy Birthday, Dr. King.
You left us too early. If you're looking down on Tuesday at the inauguration, and I hope you are, do me a favor. If you have much clout, could you encourage this new president to tell the whole American community that ANYBODY can make it, we just need to work hard. Get his ideas of hand-outs instead of hand-ups out of his psyche and let him rely on the good advice of the man he seems to admire so much, President Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln was big on self-reliance, not big government (If Abe's up there with you, get him to help you, okay?) (Thanks, Priscilla........I knew you'd have good input.)

z

54 comments:

Anonymous said...

What a PROFOUND and thoughtful piece Z! Yes indeed, ANYONE can make it here in America, but only if they embrace the American ideals of hard work and personal responsibility.

Priscilla wrote:
The individual’s worst jailer is himself. If one is taught he is oppressed he tends to believe it. Blame his teachers. Those who school him in needing a hand up, are his worst enemy. what he needs is, forward thinking and confidence.

Nuff said. When you two ladies put your considerable intellect to work, you can solve the world's problems.

Morgan

Ducky's here said...

To bad Sam Cooke and Otis are going to miss it tomorrow:

I was born by the river in a little tent
Oh and just like the river I've been running ever since
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will

It's been too hard living but I'm afraid to die
Cause I don't know what's up there beyond the sky
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will

I go to the movie and I go downtown
Somebody keep telling me don't hang around
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will

Then I go to my brother
And I say brother help me please
But he winds up knocking me
Back down on my knees

Ohhhhhhhhh.....

There been times that I thought I couldn't last for long
But now I think I'm able to carry on
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will

Rick said...

That does it!
I hereby, this day, (Doomsday minus One) officially submit for all to consider, "Z and Pris" or "Pris and Z" as candidates for President and Vice President of the United States of America for 2012 with Sarah Palin as Secretary of State.

Wow, coming from a guy and an ex-Marine, thats quite a mouthful but you ladies have outdone yourself with this splendid, thought provoking article! Thank you, again for making my day!

---------------------

Have any of you, ever in your lifetime, witnessed such an unwarranted response to an individual. An individual whose credentials are so utterly lacking in the most important categories and experience the job calls for??

America's 'victims' will have a new High Priest in less than 24 hours! God help them and the rest of us.

I.H.S. said...

Z, I thought that was very well done. I have only one critique if I could, and I'm sure it was a mistype on Priscilla part but she said:"The individual’s worst jailer is himself. If one is taught he is oppressed he tends to believe it. Blame his teachers. Those who school him in needing a hand up, are his worst enemy." She says hand up and I'm hoping she meant hand out, because I truly believe everyone needs a hand up.

A hand up is to me translated to showing an individual the correct road to take, and even if they make a wrong turn in life as Mr. Jean has by having a child before he was financially able to care for; that hand up is the wisdom given by someone to encourage him to keep taking that four hour commute until he grdauates and working at Ikea after wards if need be until the job in his field comes available.

No, we all need hand ups and never hand outs.

And, Ducky a change has already come over two thousand years ago. When it comes to politics there will never be real change only different and different doesn't equate to change in my book.

Blessings.

And, Z thanks for your comment the other day. I'm going to see about putting a audio clip out here one day.

Anonymous said...

We have a choice, America. We can have "economic justice" OR liberty. We can't have BOTH.

As the great classical liberal Sir Isaiah Berlin once said "...the only truth which I have ever found out for myself... Some of the Great Goods cannot live together.... We are doomed to choose, and every choice may entail an irreparable loss." In short, it's what Michael Ignatieff once described as "the tragic nature of choice".

Anonymous said...

Another great profundity from FJ:

"We have a choice, America. We can have "economic justice" OR liberty. We can't have BOTH."

Morgan

Law and Order Teacher said...

I submit that BO and Michelle have been the recipients of a huge "hand-up." An Ivy League education is a guarantee of economic success. It certainly burnished his credentials, such as they are.

I went the community college and GI Bill of Rights route. I appreciate forevermore the hand-up I was given by my military service.

Opportunity exists for everyone. Being a victim is crippling. Seizing opportunity leads to success for anyone with the energy and drive to grab it.

I think what Priscilla said if very true, "The individual's worst jailer is himself." Amen to that.

I.H.S. said...

Law and Order, I agree a person can be there worse enemy. Thus the phrase..."the enemy, inside of me."

Blessings.

Pat Jenkins said...

well done here z!!.. i find it offensive that so many have hijacked dr. king's message as a way to push their own agenda!!

shoprat said...

King was like so many men. Great in some ways (a willingness to rise above his circumstances and encourage others to do the same) and sadly flawed in others (womanizing and socialist economic beliefs)

Steve Harkonnen said...

Today is Lee-Jackson Day in our area, but they had to celebrate it on the previous Saturday as to avoid any "racist" charges from the black holiday (MLK Day).

I.H.S. said...

Steve, "A Black Holiday". You know I personnaly take offense to that.

It's those type comments that will keep this nation divided, or is that your intention in the first place.

Z said...

Hand UP or Hand OUT.

I will have to defer to Priscilla on that one...and I'll correct that if she would like.

I believe in Hand UPS and I know she does, too, so we'll see what she meant there.


Ducky...great song. I just hope that change to redistribution of wealth and freebies won't completely destroy the individual spirit, the self reliance all people should feel. And I think it will, sadly. I don't believe Dr King intended that.

Morgan and Rick! Thanks! Rick...you made my day!

Steve...you're kidding, right? Unbelievable.

I.H.S..I'll sure look forward to audio clips. And I'm pleased you liked this post.

L&O, I liked that line of Pris's, too.

Pat, I like to think he'd have felt more like we do today, I don't know.

Shoprat, Dr. King was certainly no saint but he contributed an important message to America.

FJ..WOW "Economic justice OR liberty" I believe you're so right. I hope you write on that.

Z said...

I.H.S...I hope Steve comes back and discusses BLACK HOLIDAY with you. I like to think we ALL celebrate Dr. King's Day, but I'm not sure that's true.

It probably shouldn't be, but it's a complex subject and I REALLY hope it gets addressed here. Thanks.

I.H.S. said...

Z, I hear you and yes I will concede that perhaps the King Holiday is observed by more black Americans as oposed to white Americans, but that doesn't make it a black holiday, does it?

King was for justice, and justice has never had a color. We have colorized right and wrong, and that in and of itself is wrong.

Z, you said,"I like to think we ALL celebrate Dr. King's Day, but I'm not sure that's true." And, you are correct we all don't celebrate it; which includes all shades of people that don't, not just whites who don't celebrate it.

Blessings.

I.H.S. said...

but blacks as well don't celebrate it.

Z said...

I.H.S...maybe OBSERVE is a better way of saying it than CELEBRATE? I hope we ALL OBSERVE It...well, heck, the post office does, schools do..ALL over the country, Black and White areas...

I just heard a Democrat talking head say what Michelle Obama will be doing .."On the campaign trail, I saw that she spent a lot of time with the troops and her families..WE HAVE TO GET BACK TO THAT"
Pardon me, but the FACTS are that Mr and Mrs Bush spent MUCH MUCH more time with the families and the troops than our media let us know...and that THEY didn't even make a big deal of it TO the media. they just DID IT.
I fear this family now will make sure we ALL hear it..ALL the time.

I wonder if any of you knows how excited I'd be were it Michael Steele being inaugurated tomorrow.
Be still, my silly heart. THAT is a man I admire...who understands ALL Americans.

I.H.S. said...

Z, and I will concede that point. I can go with Observe over Celebrate, but my answer is yet the same. There are all types of people that don't observe this day; which is their right as an individual. I took offense to Steve calling it a black holiday, and if we are all honest it's a Federal Holiday more than anything else just like Presidents day and those other days the Government is closed.

Blessings.

Anonymous said...

IHS: "that hand up is the wisdom given by someone to encourage him to keep taking that four hour commute until he grdauates and working at Ikea after wards if need be until the job in his field comes available."

I agree with your definition here. It is advice I would give if I were asked.

To my mind, a "hand up" embodies a paternalistic approach toward a group, or in this instance the black community, which I believe is insulting. It's as if those who rush in to "help" are assuming black people can't succeed on their own, and I believe they can and always could once the laws truly reflected equality under the law.

For me, paternalism robs people of their dignity amd autonomy, and smacks of an air of superiority over those it purports to "help".

So, IHS, I think while we may disagree over semantics, perhaps we can agree on what the message should be.


Pris

Anonymous said...

Rick, wow! I accept. What post would you like, how about Secy of Defense. That's how it works, right? Ha, Ha.


Thanks all.

Pris

I.H.S. said...

Pris, you said,"To my mind, a "hand up" embodies a paternalistic approach toward a group, or in this instance the black community, which I believe is insulting. It's as if those who rush in to "help" are assuming black people can't succeed on their own, and I believe they can and always could once the laws truly reflected equality under the law.

For me, paternalism robs people of their dignity amd autonomy, and smacks of an air of superiority over those it purports to "help"."

I couldn't agree with you more, and I think I could have made my statement a little clearer by stating, "when I speak of hand-up, I'm speaking from the perspective of individual to individual or community to community without respect of color, and not from a governmental veiw." Make the laws truly equitable is all I ever expect from the government nothing else.

I believe we are in the same room, pris. What you think?

Blessings.

Anonymous said...

I.H.S., Yes, we are not only in the same room, we are shaking hands. I agree wholeheartedly.

Pris

Ducky's here said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Z said...

DUcky. You'll be very happy to know your ridiculous and deceitful past claims at my having CENSORED YOU ("I want everyone at geeeeZ to know Z censored me")have finally come true. Finally...I really did definitely censor you.

You will not be here and insult Clarence Thomas. Because people don't think like YOU do, because people awakened from leftist idiocy to conservatism as they matured, Black OR White (but I'll bet his being a Black man and leaving liberalism REALLY bothers you, right?), will not earn them the title of ANY kind of "little man". Especially a man like him.

Z said...

I.H.S. and Pris...can I get in that room? I like the air there!! xxx

Anonymous said...

Ducky, you are a perfect example of the paternalistic approach I was talking about. You think you are superior to Clarence Thomas? And that you can decide who measures up and who doesn't?

You see, affirmative action implied that black people didn't measure up, and needed "special" treatment, as if they were children.

It did rob them of their own accomplishments because the perception was they weren't quite competent enough and needed a "pat on the head". How insulting and dismissive. That's paternalism.

And it did have the effect of robbing them of their dignity.

Thomas Sowell was a professor when affirmative action was passed. He has said that before that he was treated by his students with respect and the assumption that he belonged there.
After it was put in place, new students had a less favorable response towards him.

That he, in a sense, was simply fulfilling a quota.
That, Ducky, is what Clarence Thomas meant.

He was supposed to be grateful for the "kindness" of his benefactors, just because he was black.

And you judge him as inferior because you don't agree with him, and no doubt expect him to fawn over people like you who expect his gratitude for your "help".

Pris

Ducky's here said...

z, Thomas is a mediocrity.

Here's a guy who has never asked a question during a case before the court. He has virtually never written even the minority opinion and by his own words considers himself a victim of affirmative action.

He's a vile man.

I.H.S. said...

What exactly makes him vile, Ducky?

I.H.S. said...

I think that's called a rhetorical question, Z. Since the room in which we are is your room.

Blessings.

JMK said...

Great piece and comments!

I agree with anonymous, "ANYONE can make it here in America, but only if they embrace the American ideals of hard work and personal responsibility."

And another GREAT point made by I.H.S., "Those who school him in needing a hand up, are his worst enemy." She says hand up and I'm hoping she meant hand out, because I truly believe everyone needs a hand up.

"A hand up is to me translated to showing an individual the correct road to take, and even if they make a wrong turn in life as Mr. Jean has by having a child before he was financially able to care for; that hand up is the wisdom given by someone to encourage him to keep taking that four hour commute until he grdauates and working at Ikea after wards if need be until the job in his field comes available.

"No, we all need hand ups and never hand outs."

That last statement sums it up best, "we all need hand ups and never hand outs."

100% right on the money!

Z said...

I.H.S...he's not a vile man in ANY understanding of that word.
He's one of the finest men I've ever read and I highly recommend his book.
His life is a beacon to young men of any age. He was a lefty in college and was hurt by it, woke up and realized he was being taken for a ride. and grew up and became a successful man.

I won't have that word here again in association with him and I will keep the posts to show your hateful mentality, Ducky.

Z said...

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3667079&page=1

Read that, everyone...see the truth about Clarence Thomas and affirmative action.

He didn't benefit from it, he disdains it. Yes, he was a total victim then he woke up. Imagine getting a law degree from Yale and realizing people THINK you got a hand OUT because of your color.

READ.

OH! And looky here...he wrote an OPINION! "In a recent Supreme Court opinion striking down voluntary public school district plans to assign children to schools based on race, Thomas writes that scholars have "differing opinions as to whether educational benefits arise from racial balancing."

Steve Harkonnen said...

Steve, "A Black Holiday". You know I personnaly take offense to that.

I can tell that sensitivities are very high at the moment, so let me assure you I didn't quite intend it to come out that way. But the litmus test proved my theory.

Just running a sensitivity test. I think it's all due to Obama being crowned tomorrow, and to be perfectly honest, I really don't give a rat's behind if anyone is offended.

I call it like I see it.

But overall, I can grant that MLK was a good man. I respect him and his desires for equality, but I draw the line there. I just don't respect WHITE GUILT.

I.H.S. said...

Steve, what sensitivities are you referring to? The statement I made wasn't one based in sensitivities, it was based off of the ignorance on your part to recognize that although Dr. King was a black American; the honor that was given to him by the government was based off the work he did on behalf of ALL people effected by injustice not just black people.

And what WHITE GUILT are you referring? I nor anyone I know has ever ask white Americans to feel guilty about anything.

Is it guilt to want to attempt to repair the injustices that have been pervasive in the country and don't go straight to the color response because injustice knows no color,sir.

You say you call it as you see it, well with that statement I now know the type of individual I'm conversing with.

One should never call it the way they see it until they have seen it from every angle and aspect of it, and from your words, I can be certain in my own mind that you have not, but then again that's what makes this country as great as it is.

Blessings.

Z said...

I.H.S.; Do you not think white Americans feel guilty about the slavery of the past, Jim Crow, etc.?

Ducky's here said...

What exactly makes him vile, Ducky?

-------------------------

His vindictive reaction to not being viewed as a great jurist, which I assume he is not since the opinions about him are near universal.

As a member of the Supreme Court, that vindictiveness can cloud his judgment and cause harm.

Ducky's here said...

A Black Holiday?

I'm sorry Steve but Dr. King lead one of the greatest movements in the countries history and did it without firing a shot.

This is America's time to reflect.

I.H.S. said...

Z, some may and others may not, but I refuse to live my life and raise my family with the idea that white America owes us anything. Every person that participated in the slave era (white and black) are all dead. So I won't hold you to blame for something that perhaps your great great somebody did to my great great somebody.

I mean Z, if God says that the iniquities of the father will no longer be on the children, but that the soul that sins that soul shall die. Then what's wrong with living that out in this country, if we say we are christians, and you know how I dislike that word.

So, I don't want nor expect guilt. What I want and expect is what I in turn give and that's justice.

Z said...

Link how VINDICTIVE Thomas is, please..thanks. We should all see that.

I.H.S....is it the word CHRISTIAN you dislike or SAINT? I thought you meant SAINT the other day! WHAT??

Funny, I've been ID'ing people who celebrate Christmas but don't have a clue to what they're missing by not reading the Word and studying, etc., "Christmas tree Christians" now..I think it's apt, don't you!?

I'm SO not surprised by your comment to me. It's what I thought you'd say. You are a real blessing.

You know, I.H.S., I wrote about this somewhere on the blog but don't remember where. I am of Armenian extraction and I lived in Paris for 4 years. We were invited to a general's home for dinner one particular night and we were having a wonderful time. I was talking to a French General who was very glib and witty and charming....we happened to get seated next to each other at the dinner table after cocktails....we continued to chat. Finally, I asked "what do you think of the French Senate issuing the edict today that Turkey is guilty of the Armenian massacre?" ( I don't refer to it as genocide because if it were, I wouldn't be here!)...

He turned to me and said how the Armenian community is FAR too strong, they're not real Frenchmen, the Turks speak PERFECT French (imagine?), that the Armenian lobby is FAR too pushy, we don't need this to have happened..big mistake!"
it was pretty difficult for me to hear.
I said "I'm Armenian" He never turned to speak to me again the whole night.

I told my husband, as we walked home that night, that this was a great gift. It helped me feel what other, more identifiable, minorities go through. It helped me quite a bit, in a sick kind of way! I am grateful for it. like it was a gift.

Steve Harkonnen said...

A note to IHS:

First off, you don't even know me. Your judgments on me are clearly uncalled for.

Second, don't toss "blessings" at me after you attempt to label me as being ignorant. That's you trying to butter yourself up as being the good guy. Doesn't work with me. You voiced YOUR opinions. Do you see me retorting with name callings back at YOU?

Third, we all enjoy posting our opinions; and you're right about one thing, this is what makes America great. Get used to one thing - we're all equal. I owe you nothing, and I am pushing it by explaining my position to you.

I remain calling it as I see it...gee, if MLK was white, would you be tripping all over yourself defending him? I doubt it.

However, I remain in support of all that MLK did in his lifetime. He was a great man, but I draw the line there.

tell you what, bub. You go on wearing your color like a badge; I will do the same.

I.H.S. said...

I'm sorry Z, let me clarify. The christian has been so diluted from the original meaning when it was first used in Antioch; that I prefer the word saint, because this to me speaks of an individual that is truly attempting with help of the Lord to walk the walk. The word christian has become the catch phrase of an unrepentant society that lives by the mantra, "if it feels good do it."

This is why I don't like using the word christian, besides the word saint came first. Yes, Christmas tree christians seem to beg my point.

I'm thinking that acknowledging what has happened and the expectation for people to feel guilty about it are two different things.

Example: I expect my children to acknowledge when they done someone wrong, and ask forgiveness. And, in the same token I don't expect the wronged party to continuously hold it over my childs head, nor do I expect my child to beat themselves up about a PAST mistake no matter how grave it may have been; that would cripple my child, don't you think?

I have to say, Z that you have been a blessing to me with the posts that you have put out. It allows me to do what I encourage people to do all the time...THINK.

Blessings.

Z said...

I.H.S....excellent points about
"what's happened" and "feeling guilty"...thanks so much.

There are many who identify as Christians who seem to take the fun, good stuff out of the Bible and disregard and even pervert the rest.
I've always called them New Testament Christians....to me , the N T alone is like skin without the bones.
I am not being judgmental, I struggled and ignored my faith for FAR too many years to be hard on anybody else over it, TRUST ME! I still have terrible doubt and then He brings me RIGHT back...mercifully.

BUT....what I often ask is "Call yourself something ELSE!" It's impossible to believe half of the ONLY BOOK which INFORMS us of our faith! You can't take all the stuff you like as 'gospel' (pardon the pun!) and disregard the rest and still believe in the parts you consider gospel, right? Know what I'm trying to say? !!
I knew a Catholic who told me she's working hard to get abortion accepted by the church, etc....and a few other anti-Catholic things were on her agenda....and she's not alone. I said "But then, why be a CATHOLIC? You don't change your faith!" She was furious, but I think my point isn't unreasonable, don't you?

Be some OTHER abortion-approving "Christian" denomination (as if that's possible, but many 'churches' have made it so)
I'm rambling. I hope you can make sense of my feelings in all of this.
If not...I so understand!! Got to get to another post slated for posting at 3 PM my time and I need to add something that JUST NOW HAPPENED to it, so I'll close this prematurely, and MERCIFULLY for your sake!! xxx

Papa Frank said...

Steve -- you have championed your right here to "call it as you see it." All I.H.S. has done is to do the same thing about you. Tic for tac. What MLK accomplished was not a "gift" to black people but rather a "gift" to America. He worked to make us all better.

Steve Harkonnen said...

PF: I totally agree. We're all here voicing our opinions...that's what I am alluding at and glad that you, at least, can see where I was going with this.

Anonymous said...

Z and Pris,
GREAT POST!
I do think Dr. King would be saddened by the atmosphere in our nation today. It seems that we haven't made much progress considering how much time has passed since his death.

The victim mentality is crippling us.

Steve Harkonnen said...

Pinky, I see your point about the victim mentality.

There's also the "hip-hop" mentality, where racism is abundant...doesn't help them any.

MLK called for strength. It's sad, but instead of strength there was ignorance.

Bill Cosby couldn't have voiced it any better than he did, and that shitstain, Al Sharpton, is right up there.

I.H.S. said...

Steve, you said,"A note to IHS:

First off, you don't even know me. Your judgments on me are clearly uncalled for.

Second, don't toss "blessings" at me after you attempt to label me as being ignorant. That's you trying to butter yourself up as being the good guy. Doesn't work with me. You voiced YOUR opinions. Do you see me retorting with name callings back at YOU?

Third, we all enjoy posting our opinions; and you're right about one thing, this is what makes America great. Get used to one thing - we're all equal. I owe you nothing, and I am pushing it by explaining my position to you.

I remain calling it as I see it...gee, if MLK was white, would you be tripping all over yourself defending him? I doubt it.

However, I remain in support of all that MLK did in his lifetime. He was a great man, but I draw the line there.

tell you what, bub. You go on wearing your color like a badge; I will do the same.

Steve, my response is this:

First: you are correct I don't know you and you don't know me, because if you did you would know that I don't do name calling on people I don't know.

Second: I never called you ignorant. What I said was your statement was ignorant, and if we look up the word ignorant we will find that it speaks about not knowing something, and for you to say that it was a "Black Holiday" shows you don't know.

Third: You say we are all equal and you don't owe me anything, really; that's great we can agree on something. I never said anyone owes me anything, unless I loaned them some money, and I would hope we are equal and are given the same opportunity to do great things in life.

Fourth: If Dr. King was white would I be tripping over myself defending him? You doggone skippy I would, because what Dr. King did was for ALL pepole not just black people.

Fifthly: Seeing that our colors are embedded in our skins I guess we'll have to wear them as badges, don't you think?(smile) I know what you meant though, and all though I'm proud to be a black man; I don't wear as a badge or better yet as a chip. I am who God made me to be.

Finally: It is never my intention to offend anyone by what I say and if I did offend you with my words, I humbly appologize and ask for your forgiveness.

Blessings. and I mean that.

Steve Harkonnen said...

IHS: Great! Isn't this a fantastic nation we live in?

I.H.S. said...

Yes Steve, it is.

Blessings.

Misfit410 said...

"I'm sorry Steve but Dr. King lead one of the greatest movements in the countries history and did it without firing a shot."


I agree, my beef is that everyone is trying to pretend that somehow Obama is a sort of addition to that movement, the only Movement Obama will ever lead to, is the one I'm about to leave in a toilet.

Ducky's here said...

Misfit, what Obama represents is this:

1. The nation was able to elect a black man. I don't believe that should be discounted. He was able to fight through the primaries and the general election with substantial support. Not trivial.

2. He will cull the sheep that desire to be ruled by fear. We will ask them to stand on the sidelines while those who do have faith in our better nature try to make some progress without the fools who are mired in some childish belief that overwhelming military force is a way forward.

Misfit410 said...

"1. The nation was able to elect a black man. I don't believe that should be discounted. He was able to fight through the primaries and the general election with substantial support. Not trivial."

The Nation was always able to elect a black man, but we were always presented with the vile likes of Sharpton and Jackson, Obama has ZERO experience, NONE, this is a poor victory for the race as it's merely a case of federal affirmative action.

"2. He will cull the sheep that desire to be ruled by fear. We will ask them to stand on the sidelines while those who do have faith in our better nature try to make some progress without the fools who are mired in some childish belief that overwhelming military force is a way forward."

No he lead the sheep(including you.. bahhhh, bahhhh.. look out here comes Senator Byrd and he's eying your pink sheep butt thinking that mutton is better than nutton!!!)into buying that the Economic problems are all Bush's fault (Please Ignore the man behind the curtain, there is no congress, they have no hand in this) and that cutting off our rights to stand against radical Islam is somehow going to fix everything (because it did a bang up job for the UK and France right?).

Nobody on the right is trying to solve every problem with Military action, but we do know one thing..you don't deal with bankruptcy by going on a frigging spending spree...only a dolt would ever suggest otherwise.

Z said...

ARE YOU JOKING, DUCKY!?
YOU SAY:
1. The nation was able to elect a black man. I don't believe that should be discounted. He was able to fight through the primaries and the general election with substantial support. Not trivial.

I AM NOT ONE WHO FEELS WE MUST ELECT A PRESIDENT WHO'S A CERTAIN COLOR. HAD HE HAD GOOD CHARACTER, I FEEL IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BETTER REFLECTION OF DR KING'S DREAM. THAT WE DIDN'T GRIEVES ME. OBAMA AGAIN USED ACORN, 15,000 OF THEM TO GET ELECTED>> AND NOBODY'S LOOKING INTO ALL THE VOTER FRAUD DISCOVERED..IT'S GONE...NO MEDIA'S INTERESTED ENOUGH, OUR GOV'T ISN'T INTERESTED ENOUGH.
'SUBSTANTIAL SUPPORT' OF PEOPLE SILLY ENOUGH TO HATE BUSH SO THEY'D GO THIS FAR TO ELECT A MAN LIKE THIS? THERE ARE MILLIONS WHO THINK IT'S COOL TO HAVE A CANDIDATE FLIP OFF HILLARY AND MCCAIN IN PUBLIC...THAT'S VERY VERY COOL TO PEOPLE OF NO CHARACTER. HE EVEN WENT TO DINNER VERY PUBLICLY, ANNOUNCING THE TIME TO BE THAT TIME MR BUSH WOULD SPEAK FOR THE LAST TIME. SOME RESPECT FOR THE OFFICE, HUH? CONGRATULATIONS, DUCKY...THIS IS THE KIND OF MAN YOU'VE ELECTED.

2. He will cull the sheep that desire to be ruled by fear. We will ask them to stand on the sidelines while those who do have faith in our better nature try to make some progress without the fools who are mired in some childish belief that overwhelming military force is a way forward.

LET'S HOPE HE 'CULLS' THE SHEEP WHO ARE DYING TO KILL US, TOO, HUH, DUCKY? OUR 'BETTER NATURE' IS TAKING HANDOUTS? LET'S HOPE WE CAN ALL GET TO THE POINT WHERE 'OVERWHELMING MILITARY FORCE' ISN'T NEEDED BECAUSE I'M HEARING ALL OVER THAT SOLDIERS WHO WERE GOING TO REENLIST WON'T NOW, THEY CAN'T WORK UNDER THIS MAN.
I HOPE I CAN BECOME A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT AND BELIEVE 'THE ONE' WHEN HE IMPLIED TODAY THAT BECAUSE WE ARE GOOD AND JUST PEOPLE WE ARE SAFE. OH, MY GOD. THIS IS THE MENTALITY YOU ADMIRE. IT MUST BE SO NICE NOT TO REMEMBER 9/11, NOT TO CARE ABOUT HOW AIR TRAVEL'S NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE THESE DAYS, HOW OUR WHOLE WORLD'S UPSIDE DOWN ...MUST BE NICE THAT YOU THINK IT'S JUST A SILLY FEAR MONGERING!! WOW!

Anonymous said...

Awww, Ducky.

Here's a graham cracker and a sippy cup. Here's your security blanket. Need a hug?


This is how I treat my kids when I try and try and try to explain something complex to them and they cry and cry and cry and I finally realize that the only way to handle it is to give them comfort...to let them mature a bit more and come back to it at a later date.

Someday, maybe you'll stop painting people with such a wide brush.

Much love to you, my friend.