Tuesday, April 6, 2010

MEDIA at it again?

This is interesting. HERE is an article whose first paragraph is this:

WASHINGTON – A gritty war video circulating on the Internet that shows U.S. troops firing repeatedly on a group of men — some of whom were unarmed — walking down a Baghdad street is authentic, a senior U.S. military official confirmed Monday.

...and whose last paragraph is this: The video is "graphic evidence of the dangers involved in war journalism and the tragedies that can result," said David Schlesinger, editor-in-chief of Reuters news.

In between is this quote from one of our guys: "Ah, yeah, look at those dead bastards. Nice," one shooter says."

Please check out the article.......quite a change from the first paragraph to the last, eh? First the innuendo's so obvious, then, at the very, very end (and, no, most people do not read to the very end), they try to make themselves not sound quite so biased. I guess this falls under the liberal mantra again: If we're American we absolutely CANNOT make one mistake or we are NOT EXCEPTIONAL (yes, I'm being sarcastic)..

Can we survive with this kind of information? Must it be revealed? After all, innocent people were apparently killed accidentally. Do you think any soldiers erred in other wars? That was something I believe the military didn't like revealed in the past for many reasons............does it HELP AMERICA NOW that we're so eager to? (this happened in 2007)
What do you think?
UPDATE EARLY THIS MORNING (4:15 AM my time): CNN just showed the video of the people who were killed milling around while we hear (and read on the screen) our soldiers discussing taking these people out. They are talking about how "We have NO personnel East of here, so these people are insurgents..." CNN doesn't show the actual shootings ("because we want to have respect for the families"...is that the only reason, CNN? How about BAD TASTE?). I add this here only to add that one of the young CNN female news readers, whose name I didn't catch, responded to the older woman who did this report making it sound like our soldiers screwed up, said "...this shows, also, how rough it is for our soldiers when they're under the line of fire, it's very tough on them, too, to always make exactly the right call." BRAVO. Some fair reporting...that's all I wanted!
z

28 comments:

The Born Again American said...

It's called collateral damage... It's going to happen, it's a freaking war... The Lame Stream Media needs to figure out just exactly who the bad guys are...

Beth said...

I saw that headline, and I somewhat disagree with you. I mean they need to report the good and the bad that goes along with war. Just like the Catholic Church is now under fire for trying to hide problems within their ranks, we should not try to hide this news, but should report it and then condemn it as not being what Americans agree with.

Now I don't watch enough MSM to know the answer to this, but if they only report the stuff that makes us look bad, then I would agree with you that they are not being fair and balanced in their reporting, because I think we have more heroes out there than jerks.

Ducky's here said...

Well, let's start with who knows about the incident, the Iraqis (and also similar incidents in Afghanistan). Civilians get killed and the news spreads quickly

Now, do you face up to it or let rumors develop among the population which will give fanatics a entry?

I trust the right to deal from a position of cliches and sanctimony rather than hard reality.

Anonymous said...

There’s real anger in this country at the direction that the political class is dragging the majority against their will, but it has been up to now peacefully expressed. Where violence has occurred, the guilty parties have much more often than not been those agitating for change, rather than against it.

Chuck said...

If these men really did gun down these civilians in cold blood, they need to be punished.

With that said, how many of these incidents have we seen so far from the media where they have left off very important context? Were there mitigating circumstances? Did the Americans genuinely feel threatened for some reason?

The media has too long of a history of reporting only what they want us to believe. I'm waiting for something a little more substantial than a report from the lying MSM.

Finally, Duck

I trust the right to deal from a position of cliches and sanctimony rather than hard reality.

Are you joking? If you were banned from speaking in cliches and sanctimony you would be rendered mute.

shoprat said...

First verify it from reliable, ie non-leftist and non-Jihadist, sources, and if it is true deal with it.

To many believe that whatever America does is wrong because our existence as a free nation is wrong.

Z said...

Born Again...the truth is we try not to co collateral damage, the enemy aims at collateral damage. They can behead our people and get less criticism than our soldiers do.

Beth and Chuck....I'm so sorry my post led anybody to believe I don't think bad soldiers should be investigated. I don't see where I said that, but apparently I left myself open.
My point is THE MEDIA and their showing that video and not appreciating the difficulties of what our soldiers face...and our cops, too.

Ducky, this was two YEARS AGO, there is not reason for rumors to persist re this!!
Trust the left to believe the worst about us...thanks.

Z said...

shoprat...I agree about verification. Listening to the video, it's very clear they were sure that we had nobody on our side in that area at all....they clearly say so.
This is just another danger of having media there far too close to the action.

Anonymous said...

The article says, our guys were pinned down taking small arms fire and rpg fire. They called in air support.

If the men on the chopper thought the men on the ground had AK47s and an rpg, what were they supposed to do? Wait to see if they would fire on our men? You know, a freebe?

They don't have the luxury of time to discuss who those men might or might not be. They thought they were armed, and fired.

They did what they had to do. We had men on the ground who could have been killed. I couldn't tell what those things were hung over the shoulders of the men walking to the scene, and I doubt anyone here could either.

Neither does the pilot have xray vision to peer into the van. He has to assume it could be insurgent reinforcements and be prepared to take it out.

It's spin to assume the van was there only to pick up their wounded. We don't know that, and neither does the reporter.

My God, this is war, decisions have to be made in split seconds. Its easy to sit here at our leisure and decide what possibly should or should not have been done.

As it is, the rules of engagement have cost more American lives than had to be lost.

Do the guys on the chopper sound cold and hard nosed? Of course they do, they have to be, or they could't do their job.

Pris

Anonymous said...

Z, I don't think it's clear we had nobody on our side on the ground. I didn't hear that.

Who called in for air support if we had no one there on the ground?

The report makes it clear we had guys taking fire.

Pris

Z said...

pris, they absolutely say that but not on the video with the article, which I just listened to again. I'm not sure if the video was changed or I heard the fuller account on CNN very early this morning, but they did say that...
CNN's lasted a very long time and STOPS at the shootings...they did not show a bit of the shooting.

Mustang said...

Combatants learn to steel themselves against the horrors of war; it is how they deal with losing their friends. They become stoic, at least on the outside. They begin saying things they don’t mean … such as, “It doesn’t matter.” And when journalists overhear these statements, it makes great copy. So I will ask you … if these soldiers develop a hard shell when dealing with the loss of their friends, does anyone expect sympathy when the dead or wounded are insurgents?

Of course, we’ve been down this road too many times in this war. You know, when “journalists” like Tim McGirk make up stories that result in members of congress condemning our troops in the press even before investigating allegations of war crimes. There was no war crime at Haditha, but that didn’t stop the press from pretending there was. I mean, aren’t they in the business of marketing stories?

As others have indicated here, now that someone has made an allegation we are obliged to conduct a formal inquiry. If there was a violation of law, then we have to deal with it —honestly. If not, then we can simply add yet another false allegation to the already lacking reputation of the State Run Media. I just wonder … shouldn’t we apply the same rules to journalists as we do here at home? If a journalist makes a false allegation, shouldn’t that make him or her criminally liable?

Z said...

I just searched CNN and VIDEOS there and can't find the one they showed this morning...I looked at a ton of them.
The American is saying not that we're not on the ground but we have "nobody on the East side". or something like that..in other words, no soldiers are there according to their war plans.....they clear the way that our guys aren't there to be killed and then tell the gunners to let loose at their shooters.

Mustang...the video I saw did have them saying some rough, seemingly uncaring stuff, and some Americans would actually judge those kids as demons for having said them. In very hot climate, away from home, being shot at, worrying every single day you or your pals will die, you have a year of this ahead of you and, apparently, some people think we ought to throw POLITE into the mix. I sure don't. And, they said it to each other...

Journalists shouldn't even be there in the numbers they are...it's a WAR not a photo shoot.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Z I don't want to be a pest, but, what I'm referring to is the fact there was a firefight, and we had men pinned down there, who called in for air support.

Those American troops who were engaged in the firefight were there, weren't they? We don't have to see them to know that. You can hear the chatter, behind the talk of the narrator.

I don't pay attention to the narrator, or the suppositions of the writer of the article. The media being what it is.

It just seems that if it was implied we had no troops there, conclusions were reached that don't ring true.

Pris

Z said...

Pris! It wasn't narrators I heard! I can tell the difference..there's a completely different tone in the voice and a beeping noise behind the soldiers' voices... plus it had the language written below so you could totally understand.
I'm saying they were sure there were no Americans there or they'd not have shot at THEM, of course! That's a good thing.

Now, I'm reading that IRAQI JOURNALISTS WANT THIS INVESTIGATED...you can see where that's going..typical OBAMAN AMERICA: "Hey, America's slamming themselves, let's PILE IT ON, we can do that now that Bush is gone! Might have been a legit attack, but they're so stupid they investigate their OWN soldiers in America!!"

What troubles me more now is that what I heard so early this morning is GONE. I just watched another video which starts VERY late in the proceedings...the one I saw had a ton of lead-up to the shootings...and included a lot that convinced me that hit was warranted.

I wish the investigations were done in quiet...as I wish some senate hearings were done in private........we can't have this much transparency and survive. it's not possible.

Anonymous said...

Z, just so you know, I was typing and published my previous comment while you were publishing yours of 12:40.

Thanks for looking for more on this.

Pris

Z said...

Pris, no problem......I'm just frustrated that something's been hidden now, apparently.

Also, frustrated at Tom Coburn's remarks that are SO unfair to FOX I can't believe it.

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/04/06/oklahoma-sen-tom-coburn-dont-be-biased-by-fox-news/?xid=rss-topstories

The article is funny if you can laugh at the bias yet (it took me a while to understand people do see through it and it's mostly elitist libs who get off on this kind of piece)...but Coburn is so wrong.
The lies I hear on Olbermann and Maddow and other Chris Matthews (tho he's not half as bad as the other two) abound, they never have the other side to challenge them (NEVER), and Coburn suggests FOX is the one to be wary of?
I'm ashamed of him and just fired off an email to his office that I emailed you, too.

Leticia said...

The MSM have always been anti-military and aren't capable of telling the entire truth. I know that mistakes will happen in combat, but I would never, ever turn my back on our soldiers. They need our prayers and full support.

Chuck said...

Z, I did not read that into your blog. Just making a comment.

Mustang,

If a journalist makes a false allegation, shouldn’t that make him or her criminally liable?

I have said the same thing. I am not entirely comfortable jailing journalists and we certainly would have to trend lightly on this, especially not using it merely out of disagreement about what the truth is. But the bottom line is we have journalists that are flat out lying. The Constitutional protection of freedom of the press and speech should not extend to fabrication.

Anonymous said...

"Were there mitigating circumstances? Did the Americans genuinely feel threatened for some reason?



And just who do you think is best able to be the judge of that? Some whiny ass wimpy liberal progressive from his starbucks latte chair? Or from a Marine who sees an AK47 pointed at his chest?

If...you've never been in combat..then you need to STFU! Do you really think they have the time or opportunity to weigh the circumstances? Have you ever seen the business end of a high powered automatic weapon pointed at you by an endless stream of fanatical scumbag, ignorant assholes of the Islamic persuasion who thinks "allah" or a fat iman has ordered him to kill you because he gives not a shit about your family? I know...I say...every one they kill...is a righteous, justifiable kill. They'll never breed another maniac again.

War...has never changed. It's still politics by another means. And the enemy has to die....not be psychoanalyzed.

We all sit back and make these asinine judgements which we know...zero...shit about.

This war means...we kill Muslims. Period. End of story. Muslims who are no different than the Nazis's they so loved years ago.

This "debate"...disgusts me.

Major

Opus #6 said...

What makes me sad is that our soldiers and vets have to see this. Their own struggle to wage war. Picked apart and analyzed. There is a reason this video was "leaked" and had to be de-coded or whatever. It was not meant to be seen outside of the military. I see nothing that looks like a war crime. Short of that, we all need to let our soldiers be soldiers.

Remember, war is hell. Did you believe otherwise?

Z said...

Chuck, Thanks...I thought that might be what you meant but was concerned that I'd sounded like I didn't care about our guys doing bad stuff!

Major...I think that, with that phrase, Chuck meant that there shouldn't be any 'debate'...but he can answer for himself if he comes back.
I can't imagine what pressure those guys are under so I tend to be on their side BIG TIME and maybe too much, sometimes...but, like
OPUS said....how much is "too much" when they're our guys and are protecting us and they have to do so knowing the journalists are out to get any slightest "error" they commit.

Chuck said...

Major, I'm not sure what you took from my comment but maybe before you attack someone you should know what the hell you are talking about?

I was taking their side. I was saying that these are questions the media ignores and should not. Instead they just go off half-cocked (evidently this is not limited to the media) and make assumptions. These men are under a lot of pressure and they do not get much time to make decisions. It is easy for a journalist to sit in their office and second guess them.

As far as combat, no I have not been but both of my brothers have been, Iraq and Afghanistan, so piss off.

Finally, call me what ever you want but don't call me a liberal. That's just mean.

Z said...

OPUS #6 has a terrific post at her place about WHO is exempt from HealthScare.
Hint: NOT YOU.
check it out!

Anonymous said...

If Tom Coburn thinks Nancy Pelousy is "a nice woman," he's obviously lost his mind -- and all the respect I once had for him, which was considerable. The truth is we have NO ONE on "our" side in the US Congress.

FOX may not be everything we'd like it to be, but it's the ONLY bit of news media that attempts to give conservatives a fair shake. Unfortunately, FOX bends over backwards to try to do the same for liberals -- and all they get for it is a periodic kick in the shins from Libturds -- and go-along-to-get-along congress jerks.

And what was it Patton said about war? Something like "You're not fighting to save your own life; you're fighting to make sure some other poor son-of-a-bitch loses his."

"Moderation in war is imbecility."

Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice."

It think it was Lord Acton who said that, but does it matter? The important thing is the truth behind the remark.

~ FreeThinke

Z said...

FT....you said: Unfortunately, FOX bends over backwards to try to do the same for liberals -- and all they get for it is a periodic kick in the shins from Libturds -- and go-along-to-get-along congress jerks.

Doesn't that irk you? It does me BIT TIME.

MK said...

After seeing the smearing the leftist msm has dished out on the US Military for decades now, i'm finding it hard to scrape up some sympathy for them.

Anonymous said...

Sorry...but I'd like to see this team at the NYC office of the ACLU! Ot at the recent "peace" rally where the flag was burned and Code Stink put on their clown suits and faces. Where...they're ashamed to be Americans.

OoRah.

They did their job.

Major