Thursday, April 22, 2010

Veiled threats or a bill with teeth in France?

PARIS – French President Nicolas Sarkozy has ordered legislation that would ban women from wearing Islamic veils that fully cover the face and body in public places, the government said Wednesday.

The article talks about DIGNITY and OPPRESSION OF WOMEN behind this proposed ban but never mentions SAFETY. I'm wondering if that shouldn't also be used as a reason to ban the burqa? I suppose a bomb can be put on any woman, under a coat, etc., but isn't a flowing garment even easier to hide something under? But, of course, that would be suggesting that Muslim women might have more reason to blow French Christians and Jews up than a French Christians and Jews!? naaaaaaaaaaa :-)

What do you think? Should they be banned and shouldn't safety be mentioned? Or too politically hot, even if it IS true? French PC run amuk?
Z

59 comments:

FrogBurger said...

I see a safety issue big time. If the woman rides a bicyle for example. Or if she's trying to run.

I'm joking here.

I have very mixed feelings about this law. I understand the goal here but it also goes against my libertarian beliefs too.

Ducky's here said...

Well, there may well be good reason to ban them as a matter of integration.

But this worry that you're going to get bombed. Utter hysteria.

Anonymous said...

The essence of Islam (Submission!) is completely antithetical to the tenets and traditions of Western Christian Civilization.

As such, if we are to preserve anything of OUR identity on our OWN turf, we MUST reject and FORBID all signs of aggression in an attempt to "foreignize" OUR countries.

Wearing a burka in a Western City IS an act of aggression.

If you want to live amongst US, you MUST adopt OUR mores, speak OUR language, and live OUR established lifestyle.

Short term visitors, of course, would be exempt from these commands, EXCEPT for groups that are KNOWN and have been PROVED to have hostile intent towards US.

Ever since 911 I have seen Muslim Garb and Arab modes of thinking and behavior as ALIEN and UNWELCOME in MY country.

The so-called "liberals," who work ceaselessly to disempower and disorient US, should be regarded as ENEMY COMBATANTS and treated accordingly, unless and until they change their attitude and men their ways.

It's a paradox. By tolerating THEIR intolerance in order to preserve OUR stated ideals, we automatically become VICTIMS of THEIR intolerant way of life.

By all means BAN the head scarf, the burka, and anything else that feels to US like an INVASIVE UNWELCOME HOSTILE foreign element.

As I said, it's a PARADOX.

Just remember "The US Constitution is not a suicide pact." WE have a right to be who WE are -- especially on our OWN soil.

And don't give me all the CRAP about our being "a nation of immigrants." Just because we now eat spaghetti, love pizza and use garlic in our cooking does NOT mean we let the Italians take over our culture.

Unfortunately the Cultural Marxists SNEAKED UP on us from within our own gates and THEY took over and refashioned us to suit THEIR evil, pseudo-idealistic agenda. And that is why we are even QUESTIONING the idea of banning the burka today.

~ FreeThinke

Anonymous said...

And remember THIS:

You can't even carry a Bible inside a SUITCASE and read it in PRIVATE in an Islamic country without fear of being arrested, abused, possibly tortured, behead or stoned to death.

And WE are expected to welcome the mushrooming of MOSQUES, MINARETS and MUEZZINS bellowing their obscene "prayers" in OUR city squares?

GIVE ME a FRIGGIN' BREAK!!

~ FreeThinke

Anonymous said...

"But this worry that you're going to get bombed. Utter hysteria."

Right Ducky, why should anyone worry about something deadly that happens everyday, somewhere.

There's something called "an ounce of prevention". It's called common sense, a state of thinking you have no familiarity with.

Pris

Z said...

FB, I don't see your libertarian belief in conflict here. These are women with driver's licenses who can't have NO picture on the ID.

Ducky, the last few bombings in Pakistan were women with bombs under their burqas.
I remember most people thinking a 9/11 event would be "hysteria", too...Couldn't happen HERE :-)

FT....of course, in Arabia, women are VERY much dissuaded from wearing Western clothing....they can get attacked. And we have unthinking Polyanna libs here who think asking a woman to dress as her host country dresses is bad!:-)
I'm going to write something this weekend, or maybe tomorrow, about one main difference between islam and christianity and it might help some people learn something. Thanks for your comment.

Pris, imagine? It NEVER HAPPENS!!!:-) But, do NOT let a white Christian carry a GUN because THEY shoot every single freakin' DAY, right!! (you can't make this kind of thinking up, that's why God gave us leftwingers)

Ducky's here said...

Right z, that's in a war zone largely thanks to the Afghanistan escapade.

Curb your hysteria.

MK said...

It's good of them to try and ban it, but i doubt very much it would be enforced. Besides the other thing is that as more muslims reach voting age, don't be surprised to find things like these are just a short-term phenomenon.

Expect more violence and mayhem from muslims though, that's what they always do where they congregate, no matter what leftist buffoons high on crack and/or pot might like to think.

Z said...

which 'hysteria' is that, Ducky? Hysteria?

MK: violence picks up every month in France, it's probably not going to get better that Sarkozy's doing this. And still, leftwingers don't understand...must be HIS fault, eh?
Nobody can ask muslims ANYTHING without it being the askers fault.

heidianne jackson said...

the last time i was on a plane, i was in line behind a man with three "women" in burqas. their passports had pictures of the "women" in their burqas. not a single one of them was stopped for a further security check.

however, i, wearing bluejeans, a fitted t-shirt and flip flops that were 1/4" thick was stopped. my luggage was opened and rummaged through and i was taken into a separate room to be searched - they searched everything but my cavities. wth?

there is no way to prove that those people in the burqas were women. or even the women listed on the passports. this is insanity.

but since ducky says so, i have nothing to fear. uh huh.

FrogBurger said...

"FB, I don't see your libertarian belief in conflict here. These are women with driver's licenses who can't have NO picture on the ID."

Yes for that, I understand. Now for walking in the street, I wouldn't make that illegal. I understand it could be a safety issue but if someone really wants to blow herself or himself up, they can just use a jacket and nobody will see anything either.

Now for integration, Ducky, my 27 years of life in France and 10 in the US have shown me that people get integrated mostly via work and employement. Not by that kind of stuf or welfare as a matter of fact. Muslims of the first generation of immigrants in the 60s had jobs and love France and its Western principles. The young generation that can't find work because of an inflexible labor market and a poor economy resulting from 30+ years of socialistic programs is the one turning to *extremist* islam. And tensions are rising. National Front went strong in the last election and many of my moderate friends or family members are voting for it now because they can't take it. It's very sad. Socialistic policies have blocked integration and have created more discrimination and prejudices. On both sides.

Anonymous said...

Ducky, anyplace can become a war zone when it comes to terrorism, and, FYI, we already have!

Is Russia a war zone? I think so. Spain? Yup. Britain? Uh huh.

So just how many dead through terrorism does a war zone make? Is it a few hundred?

A few dozen?

Three thousand? How many Ducky?

Or is it just where you live that would make it a war zone. I thought so.

Pris

beamish said...

I think burkas are sexy.

;)

I don't have a problem with people voluntarily wearing (or not wearing) anything as long as I'm allowed to make fun of it.

beamish said...

Pris,

Ducky lives in Massachussetts. You know, a staging area. Boston.

Where even Al Gore was screaming about lax airport security in the early 1990s.

Where the people are dumber than bricks and you can get on a plane through a watchlist flag warning with a boxcutter.

beamish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Muslim MEN have no compunctions about wearing burkas to hide the havoc they plan to wreak.

Burka's are, therefore, extremely DANGEROUS as well as UGH-LEE!

Imagine Elvis singing these lyrics:

Burka Baby, please be mine.
Shed your tent and be my Valentine
Baby, Baby, baby, let me in
Drop that veil, c'mon let's sin.

Oh oh oh! Burka Baby don't torture me.
You know I want you bad, so let me see
What you got behind that curtain.
Baby baby open up and quit your flirtin.'

If I can't have you, I'm gonna die
You know you're gettin' hot, and so am I
I can hear you hissin'
You don't know what your missin'

KABOOM!!!

~ FreeThinke

Anonymous said...

Burka Baby, Bye Bye!!!

~ FT

Anonymous said...

I...don't like or trust dirt eating Muslims...everything about them and their campaign to intimidate, cow and strike fear into the hearts of all freedom loving people.

Every day...you read about the terrorists ( convicted ) CAIR scumbags...at least I had a gun when I confronted them before. What do you have? The usual lame media lying bastards who will be the first to go under Islamic slavery?

And don't give me the usual crap that "not all muslims" are bad. They are...they're terrorists in waiting...only answering to their deity...the moon god...allah. Piss on them all. Choose a side... all you good Christians...cause you'll have to soon...just as they have. Any you're their target. Peace...will get you a hooded death sentence...replete with misery and pain. Just look at the history of these savage scum...they're just picking up where they left off so long ago....and they're counting on you...to be....PC pussies!
I regret...I haven't done away with enough of them.


Major

Truthmatters said...

I've wondered this for a few months now. Do white people have equal rights to a white culture that other races and ethnicities do? You see on campuses different ethnic clubs. For Hispanics, Asians, African Americans, etc. And I think thats cool. I, for one, see no problem with people who enjoy being amongst others like them. It's possible to enjoy that while also not hating others.

For example, I hate rap music. Just doesn't do it for me. But I like Mexican music. And rock. I'm white, and can honestly say I have no hatred for a person based on race or ethnicity. I've truly pondered that for a long time about myself, rather than just blankly saying it. I found that I have no problems with other people or races, but I do dislike some cultures. Not their right to exist, but being surrounded by it. Like I said, I dislike rap. Hate loud music, especially with strong bass. I also don't drink or smoke. So I don't feel comfortable in many concert environments, but especially rap or heavy metal. I also am annoyed by slang. I prefer to speak and discuss in proper English. Not knocking people who use slang, I just prefer to not use it or discuss in it.

So it brings me to a question: Do white people have a right to their own culture? To softer music, lack of slang, blander foods, less flashy dress styles, etc? This stems from a lecture I got from a sociology professor in which he stated the white race is a generic, default race, and not a race at all. He argued since white is not a race, but the lack of a race, it's impossible to be racist against white people. That disliking white people or white culture is simply to dislike the lack of culture, lack of race, lack of substance.

So, his argument is white is not a race, but lack of race. White culture is simply a lack of culture. White is default, void of culture, racial identity, or ethnicity, thus it's impossible to be racist against a non-race, and white people can only identify with a culture if they take parts of another culture and adhere to it (like white kids trying to be hip-hop)
Any thoughts?

B Calm said...

Truthmatters, I think you just accidentally "got it". The white culture has been absolutely open and welcoming to all cultures. The Asian, Latino, African American influences here had nothing to do with white people, but we welcomed it and now truly enjoy it. Yet, we are constantly told we need legislation to force more diversity, despite having welcomed it

What other countries in the world would openly welcome and embrace such a huge culture change as well as America has? None.

Yet, those on the left have now taken and embraced people like Jeremiah Wright and President Barack "Typical White Person" Obama, and backlashed against the very culture that so embraces the cultures of others.

So, my question again, does the white culture that has so embraced and enjoyed the different cultures that have come here also in part have a right to maintain and enjoy certain enclaves of a mostly white culture in parts of our society?

Deborah on the Bayside said...

Conflicted because I know this issue stems from belligerents hellbent on having the dominant culture not just accept, but SUBMIT to them ... and still coming down on the side of "no." It's reasonable to require a full face on a government-issued identity card (driver's license) but you can't ban decent clothing in general public. What individual venues do is different.

The French should have started their crackdown years ago when muslim immigrants moved into unused cathedrals as squatters.

Remember the kid with the ice cream in the freezer scene from Kramer vs. Kramer? Islamic radicals doin' the same thing.

(and Z, you sounded just beautiful this morning - great choice and movingly done)

Mustang said...

I particularly enjoy reading Ducky’s commentary because it reminds me that yes … there are people that stupid. I am inclined to agree with FB; I don’t want us to have a society where the state dictates what we can wear. I find that I have the same revulsion to Sarkozy’s law as I do the mandate that women must wear a burkha to begin with. I understand security, but we can take that to extremes in the same way that we can take permissiveness to extremes.

What is happening here is a continuation of the confrontation foisted upon us by Islamacists for the past twenty or more years. The case of a woman in FL who said that a drivers’ license photo violated her religious convictions was told, “No photo, no driver’s license.” That was the right decision.

While it is true that a woman from Bongo Bongo may walk around topless in her own country, such behavior is unacceptable here (although I’m not sure why). We might inform these ladies, if they wish to walk around topless, they’ll have to go back to Bongo Bongo. If wearing a burkha is so important to Islamic women, perhaps they should move to the Middle East or Massachusettstan.

Z said...

Mustang, as I've often said, it's this ON TOP OF ALL THE OTHER THINGS ISLAM IS HOISTING ON US that makes the burka MORE egregious than we'd have ever found it before.
WHO CARED before 9/11?
Where WERE they before 9/11? (pretty much nonexistent, I've lived in a Europe full of muslims and NEVER SAW ONE...nonexistent..until 9/11.

Demands by islamic students to wash their feet while they study....only after 9/11

Demands by muslim cabbies that they not have to accept dogs or booze...only after 9/11

Demands that muslim butchers wouldn't have to cut pork...only after 9/11.

The list is long...burkas were nowhere.......now? You should SEE LONDON's MOST EXPENSIVE AREAS...Burkas with little Prada high heels poking out from the hem. Trust me. Plenty of that. And limousines pulling up outside Harrods and burka-clad women's chauffeurs throwing box upon box into their limos...think they bought burkas? :-)

Z said...

Major, would it make you feel better if thousands of muslims in America marched against their terrorist brethren, at least trying to show Americans they're NOT all bent on destroying our country?

Z said...

BCalm, I so appreciate your response to Truthmatters, who confuses me, frankly. Nobody here hates anybody for being different.
My point is that burkas can be dangerous and we have every right to protect ourselves..what they wear at home is their business.

Truthmatters, I urge you to travel Europe and then ask me if white cultures have a right to their culture. You'd better go tomorrow because those wonderful white cultures are fading fast. I was first there 30 years ago and I lived there for five years total, in France and Germany up till 7 years ago. Yes, they have every right to their culture but they've been overcome by cultures NOT WANTING TO FIT IN.(by cultures who'd KILL them if they tried to keep their culture in their country, by the way)
It's one thing to be MULTIETHNIC, it's quite another to turn MULTICULTURAL, a horrid and threatening mistake.

I lived in Paris for 4 years and there are areas one CANNOT really go into because of the islamic population's actions (that's true about Britain, too). Funny, before 9/11, my husband I ate at couscous restaurants right in the heart of the muslim areas...after 9/11, nobody we knew would dream go there. Something THERE changed, plus we were warned by the French.
The Germans could leave their bikes by the door, unchained to anything, for hundreds of years..suddenly, there is NO WAY they can do that. You think Germans are doing that?! (no)
The French have to be VERY careful in the suburbs now because there are many arab car hijackings...Russians, too.
In Germany, it's the Chinese mafia who comes to German restaurants and says "Pay us so much money a month or your place goes up in flames" Wait for it here.
All threats to that nonexistent white culture you mentioned!

More than "are whites entitled to keep their culture"...it's "is decent Western society entitled to fight people who want to take over WHILE they're living off them through welfare!? !!!

TruthMatters said "Do white people have a right to their own culture? To softer music, lack of slang, blander foods, less flashy dress styles, etc? This stems from a lecture I got from a sociology professor in which he stated the white race is a generic, default race, and not a race at all."

Gee, I'm SO surprised you got this ridiculous stuff from a professor! :-) 'Softer music" Ever heard of LEON RUSSELL or SUPERTRAMP or METALLICA? "Less flashy dress styles"? Less flashy than WHAT, Mr. Professor?

white's not a race at all? ARE YOU KIDDING? I'm not sure how to answer that...I hope you didn't spend too much on your college (sorry, couldn't resist!)

BCALM said "So, my question again, does the white culture that has so embraced and enjoyed the different cultures that have come here also in part have a right to maintain and enjoy certain enclaves of a mostly white culture in parts of our society?"
Answer: YOU BET.

Deborah, thanks, it's an amazing song, isn't it. I'm glad you enjoyed the singing.

you said "The French should have started their crackdown years ago when muslim immigrants moved into unused cathedrals as squatters. "
The French felt guilty for having brought all the Algerians IN to help at Renault, etc.......they didn't find the guts to take them all HOME in time, and then families were formed and that was that.
Same thing in Germany with the Turks and others.....they brought them in to do the dirty work and never sent them home.
All of this has been a nightmare and will change Western civilization and it'll be a civilization that's UNcultured, and oppressive and miserable...

Anonymous said...

Truthmatters,
Are you serious or are you having fun with us? I'd really like to know.

Because if you're serious, your professor is one sick puppy, and your tuition money is being wasted, as is your time.

If your having fun with us, your time is still being wasted. Either way, use your head, that's what it's there for.

Read up on our founding fathers and come back here and tell us that white people don't have a culture, or lack substance.

They were all white btw.

Pris

Anonymous said...

For me it all boils down to this:

If you're making chocolate fudge, and put GARLIC in with the Baker's chocolate, butter, sugar and vanilla extract, you do NOT have chocolate fudge anymore. What you DO have is a disgusting, indigestible, stinking MESS not fit for swine -- a waste of money and of good ingredients.

If that model doesn't make sense to you, look at it this way:

If you're mixing batter for a white cake, and pour melted chocolate in the bowl, it STOPS being a WHITE cake.

Neither do you put blue cheese crumbles into a recipe for homemade strawberry ice cream.

The mortal of the story is that some things are MEANT to go together, and others are NOT.

Notice please that I have not condemned garlic, melted chocolate or blue cheese all of which are delicious -- when used in a PROPER context.

To put it more directly: Islam is is the blue cheese that doesn't belong in our strawberry ice cream.

~ FreeThinke

Z said...

FT..not a bad way to put it. (you know it's ALL ABOUT FOOD with me !!)

Pris, well said......lack of substance, amazing thinking, honorable goals and dreams for our country; the founding fathers are an excellent example of all those things, a good reminder, thanks.

Anonymous said...

Food metaphors probably break down somewhere, but it seems pretty logical to me. Thanks, Z.

I understand Mustang and other libertarian perspectives very well. I consider myself a libertarian, if I have to be categorized.

HOWEVER, as I said much earlier, it's a paradox. By tolerating intolerance, and welcoming hostile forces into our midst, we are in effect committing a kind of suicide.

Another way of putting it might be this;

In a world where ANYTHING goes, EVERYTHING goes.

And I mean KABOOM!!!

If we ain't got standards, we ain't got NUTTIN. ;-)

~ FreeThinke

psi bond said...

Given that the government has an obligation to take all measures necessary for public safety, the State should mandate that any burqa worn in public must be see-through, and it should reward those wearing birthday suits underneath as a sign of their submission to authority and good faith. Clergymen’s and nuns’ habits should be no exception, of course.

Anonymous said...

A NAKED SOCIETY is a SAFE society.

NUDITY is the WAY to GO.

No exceptions for the fat, wrinkled, saggy, baggy or deformed.

SHOW those varicose veins, Momma!

EVERYONE goes nude
Even if she's a prude.

~ FreeThinke

Anonymous said...

A NAKED SOCIETY is a SAFE society.

NUDITY is the WAY to GO.

No exceptions for the fat, wrinkled, saggy, baggy or deformed.

SHOW those varicose veins, Momma!

EVERYONE goes nude
Even if she's a prude.

~ FreeThinke

Name: Soapboxgod said...

"I suppose a bomb can be put on any woman, under a coat, etc., but isn't a flowing garment even easier to hide something under?"

I'd say a backpack is probably the easiest. They should probably ban those too.

Those who sacrifice freedom for security will have neither freedom nor security.

Anonymous said...

"Given that the government has an obligation to take all measures necessary for public safety" ...

When did the government assume THAT obligation,Bond? Did you just wake up from one of your "progressive" wet dreams and think you were living in "The Brave New World" — the collectivist new world order? It may be coming but it's not quite here yet.

Waylon

Anonymous said...

Dear, God,

Without You, mortal existence is just plain Hell.

Ethics and morality without You are nothing more than a tinkling brass and sounding cymbal.

Devotedly,

FreeThinke

Z said...

Soapbox "Those who sacrifice freedom for security will have neither freedom nor security." Nor might they have a country or their lives.

In Paris, police can walk up to a guitar player and ask to see in his guitar case, they can look in backpacks......nobody cares, nobody feels their freedom's gone.
I surely agree that in times before terrorism, that statement was one we needed to heed. I'm not so sure anymore, but then one has to consider where the fine line is still....can we afford to live by that premise you quoted here? I'm not sure.

Z said...

"Ethics and morality without You are nothing more than a tinkling brass and sounding cymbal."
Actually, I'm beginning to see that there can be no lasting or real ethics and morality without Him.
But, of course, we have people who don't even understand that life is better when acknowledging there are real RIGHTS and WRONGS.
So, they're choking those good people who understand and, as it's so much easier to live debauched lives and sanction others' to make ourselves feel better about our behavior, most people jump on that bandwagon.
Someday, I hope to do a chart of when respect for God in this country started waning due to secularists and some of our churches dropping the ball and when our society started going down hill SO very fast. Hundreds of years a thriving country and standing close together in unity and, take God out, and look what we have today.

Anonymous said...

"Major, would it make you feel better if thousands of muslims in America marched against their terrorist brethren..."


No it wouldn't. Because I know that a large part of their ideology and fascism is a continuation of a lie. Their savage quaran and their moon god demands that they lie to achieve their goals. I learned to not turn my back on them...and neither should any of us. Take your eyes off these bastards...and your dead. Which is what they want...and which is why it's impossible for them to condemn their own. I say punish all of them...until they whine some more. Maybe when their denied their "rights" they might push back against the murderous cult they belong to.

Thanks for asking what I think you knew the answer to already!

Major

Anonymous said...

"A U.S. military judge has cleared a Navy SEAL of wrongdoing in the alleged beating of a prisoner suspected of masterminding the grisly 2004 killings of four American contractors in Iraq.


Next time you can be sure....when we bag one of these vermin again...they'll get their virgins. You can bet any future SEALs will just kill the dirtbag. As these guys should have and I'm sure they wished they had. And the lying sack of sheet that said he witnessed "mistreatment" of this mutt...better get his traitorous tail into the witness protection program.


Major

Anonymous said...

Z,

We seem to be living in an age where everybody is absorbed in pursuing his or her "RIGHTS," but no one wants to acknowledge that anyone should be regarded as "WRONG," except the WASP Tyrant Oppressors, of course, who are now regarded as the root and branches of all evil.

"Our" group has been SO cowed and so bamboozled by intellectual aggression, deceit and sophistry, that most of us now seem to think it's our "duty" to ECLIPSE ourselves and everything our ancestors stood for, fought for and accomplished.

In other words our society has gone NUTS.

I'm convinced that our ONLY hope lies in returning to reliance on Almighty God. Unfortunately, even most Christians have a great deal of difficulty agreeing on just who and what He really is.

Our adversaries thrive on the internecine bickering too many professed Christians indulge in.

Satan is The Great Divider.

~ FreeThinke

Always On Watch said...

Former Moslems have told me that the burqa is a sign that a "radical" is close by -- at least in the family of the woman.

Just sayin'

Anonymous said...

""Our" group has been SO cowed and so bamboozled by intellectual aggression, deceit and sophistry, that most of us now seem to think it's our "duty"....


Ahhhh....FT has nailed it. You're all so worried and cowed by this bullshit "multi - cultural" nonsense..that we've lost or have forgotten our CONTRIBUTIONS to this Republic. We're all so concerned about fawning over Mexican food, soul food, chinese, italian to prove...we're so..."sensitive". Horse shit....if the mutts who shove this lousy fare down our throats were the least bit honest about "diversity"...they'd happily accept our fare. But..they don't. And I hope to God we see some good old fashioned WASP units...who have nothing to be ashamed of....regain the same stature and position in this totally PC's feminized, apologetic, wussy metro - sexual society.

Jesus Krist...what's wrong with the facts people?


Major

P.S....theres lot's more like me who are once more willing to save half your sorry asses from what you have wrought. To save our own asses from...from what you have wrought.


Am I angry? You bet I am...If you're not....somethings very, very wrong with you.

Lip service...ain't the same as....military service...which we'll all need within the next 10 years...right here...in America. We should have a plan too....the muzzies do.

psi bond said...

When did the government assume THAT obligation,Bond?

Waylon, I did not state that the government assumed THAT obligation. On the contrary, as an alert reader will understand, I posited the validity of that obligation as the logical antecedent for my very sensible proposal (which, by the way, immediately sent Fauxthinker into sublime logopoeic rapture).

To expand a little on that: Given the aforementioned antecedent, all pregnant women must allow fully transparent windows to be installed in their abdominal regions to facilitate inspection by authorities entrusted with ensuring public security. In Transparency, we trust.

Z said...

Major..I was so happy those SEALS are being exonerated one by one. Finally. By the way, most of us here are NOT at all enamored with MULTICULTURAL crap in America. We welcome cultures which come legally and participate in the American dream but we don't celebrate changing the American scene. I am first and second generation in this country and we cook our culture's foods at home and for guests (who adore it) and the culture was 'out' at church and church events, but in American life? WE ARE AMERICANS.
odd, too, that my Grandfather, who arrived when he was 9 with no English, learned the language in a few months' time and went on to own 3 very upscale grocery stores in Troy, New York and succeeded in everything else he did. What a terrible joke the left's played on Hispanics here by having bilingual classes and allowing our poor young hispanics to remain gardeners and house cleaners because they never really got a good education.......better to speak Spanish, I guess...better to be dependent.

AlwaysON Watch....that makes such sense, though it is frightening to consider. Before 9/11, I'm not sure I ever saw a burqa. While we don't have many yet here in LA, we certainly see the headcovering frequently. Which I think is fine, by the way, Orthodox married Jewish women wear that, too. And some Christians.

Anonymous said...

To be honest, I'm not completely comfortable with the term "white culture". Doesn't Western Culture mean the culture influenced by classic Greece and Rome, Christianity, the Renaissance and--for Duck's sake, I'll throw in--the Enlightenment? I'm not questioning the merits of western culture, just questioning the idea of couching it in term of race. I'm I picking nits here?

tio

Anonymous said...

An observation from the gym...

At the gym I used to go to, there was a Palestinian (I believe) woman who always wore the head dress and had arms and legs covered with long sleeves and pants. Sometimes she'd have on a shirt that said something about "empowering women". Her husband was a Jamaican. From the way he talked, I gathered that fidelity wasn't a major priority.

I'll let you do your own analyses...just thought it kind of interesting.

tio

Z said...

tio, I agree with you about 'white culture' ...as we've been writing about this, it's struck me strange, too. Those empires you mention were white and Western Civilization is mostly WHITE, let's face it..? At least it's history has been.....we obviously have Blacks in society who are very much a part of Western Civilization, but the history is mostly of white people. ...
But, for someone to say there's no white race like Truthmatters is NUTS.

Ah, so we have Pakistani women wearing EMPOWER WOMEN shirts but covered up, huh? Well, maybe they mean empowered in the workplace...? I guess I feel a muslim woman has a right to wear whatever the heck she wants to wear but the women who have committed acts of terror while hiding in the burqas have ruined it for these women....On the other hand, what kind of religion oppresses women by having them have to cover up? AND what kind of men in a religion can't trust themselves not to get sexually carried away by seeing skin?
AND, on the other hand....isn't modest clothing, at least, better than what we see in a lot of women today?
AND, ...well, we could go on and on, !!!

psi bond said...

The common theme amongst all Amish clothing is plainness; clothing should not call attention to the wearer by cut, color, or any other feature. Hook-and-eye closures or straight pins are used as fasteners on dress clothing rather than buttons, zippers, or velcro. Snaps are used on everyday clothes, and plain buttons for work shirts and trousers. The historic restriction on buttons is attributed to tradition and their potential for ostentation. In all things, the aesthetic value is plainness. Some groups tend to limit color to black (trousers, dresses) and white (shirts), while others allow muted colors. Dark blue denim work clothing is common within some groups as well. The Old Order Amish often sew their own clothing, and work clothing can become quite worn and patched with use.

Women wear calf-length plain-cut dresses in a solid color. Aprons are often worn at home, usually in white or black, and are always worn when attending church. A cape, which consists of a triangular piece of cloth, is usually worn, beginning around the teenage years, and pinned into the apron. In the colder months, a long woolen cloak may be worn. Heavy bonnets are worn over the prayer coverings when Amish women are out and about in cold weather, with the exception of the Nebraska Amish, who do not wear bonnets. Girls in some areas may wear colored bonnets until age nine; older girls and women wear black bonnets. Girls begin wearing a cape for church and dress up occasions at about age eight. Single women wear a white cape to church until about the age of thirty. Everyday capes are colored, matching the dress, until about age forty when only black is used.

During the warmer months, many children will go barefoot, even while attending school.


Shouldn’t this simple dress code appeal to rightwingers in America? After all, there are no known Amish terrorists.

psi bond said...

Their own mothers did not wear the veil but in the post 9/11 era, many young Muslim women in Europe see covering themselves as an act not of self-erasure but of power and freedom.

Rahmanara Chowdhury is a bright, affable woman with a charming laugh and an approachable manner. She is a part-time teacher in Loughborough and, given her friendly disposition, it's not surprising that her subject is communication. What is unexpected is that she teaches teenagers 'interpersonal skills, teamwork, personal development' while dressed in an outfit that conceals her whole body and face, except for the eyes.

Chowdhury is one of a growing number of Muslim women in Britain who choose to wear the niqab, the veil that leaves only the eyes on public view. Where once the sight of a fully hidden woman was restricted to a few traditionalist communities, nowadays it is not unusual to see the niqab on high streets throughout the major cities of England and in a number of smaller towns. Just a decade ago, this form of enshrouding was seen as an unambiguous sign of female oppression and feudal custom, but now it is frequently referred to as an expression of religious identity, individual rights and even, in some cases, female emancipation.

Certainly, it is in such terms that Chowdhury discusses her decision to adopt the niqab. 'It serves as a reminder that I'm Muslim and it helps me get close to God. Since wearing the niqab, I've become a lot more confident. Once you're covered up, people are forced to judge you not as you look as a woman but on your character.'

— The Guardian, November 20, 2005

psi bond said...

Neither her parents nor her peers encouraged Chowdhury to remove her face from public view. She was brought up to wear the hijab, the headscarf that covers the hair, neck and chest, but there was never an expectation that she would, as it were, graduate to the niqab. Her mother had not worn one. Whatever lies behind the growing popularity of fundamentalist dress code, women like Chowdhury are proof that it is not necessarily familial or communal coercion.
— The Guardian, November 20, 2005

Anonymous said...

REPRISE:

The essence of Islam (Submission!) is completely antithetical to the tenets and traditions of Western Christian Civilization.

As such, if we are to preserve anything of OUR identity on our OWN turf, we MUST reject and FORBID all signs of aggression in an attempt to "foreignize" OUR countries.

Wearing a burka in a Western City IS an act of aggression.

If you want to live amongst US, you MUST adopt OUR mores, speak OUR language, and live OUR established lifestyle.

Short term visitors, of course, would be exempt from these commands, EXCEPT for groups that are KNOWN and have been PROVED to have hostile intent towards US.

Ever since 911 I have seen Muslim Garb and Arab modes of thinking and behavior as ALIEN and UNWELCOME in MY country.

The so-called "liberals," who work ceaselessly to disempower and disorient US, should be regarded as ENEMY COMBATANTS and treated accordingly, unless and until they change their attitude and men their ways.

It's a paradox. By tolerating THEIR intolerance in order to preserve OUR stated ideals, we automatically become VICTIMS of THEIR intolerant way of life.

By all means BAN the head scarf, the burka, and anything else that feels to US like an INVASIVE UNWELCOME HOSTILE foreign element.

As I said, it's a PARADOX.

Just remember "The US Constitution is not a suicide pact." WE have a right to be who WE are -- especially on our OWN soil.

And don't give me all the CRAP about our being "a nation of immigrants." Just because we now eat spaghetti, love pizza and use garlic in our cooking does NOT mean we let the Italians take over our culture.

Unfortunately the Cultural Marxists SNEAKED UP on us from within our own gates and THEY took over and refashioned us to suit THEIR evil, pseudo-idealistic agenda. And that is why we are even QUESTIONING the idea of banning the burka today.

~ FreeThinke

Anonymous said...

I think if you are trying to legislate what people can wear or what languages can be spoken, things have already gotten out of hand. Preserving the culture through sensible immigration policy is one thing, but a having a culture police starts to feel a little too much like a dystopia novel.

tio

psi bond said...

Rightwingers love making slippery-slope arguments. Well, if the State can mandate dress codes, the ultimate result can be requiring that every citizen wear a standardized uniform, as the military does. Dystopia, here we come: They howl, “We MUST reject and FORBID what is rightly seen as aggression against the traditional ideals of the State, as nefarious plots to ‘multicullturalize’ OUR homogeneous Christian countries.” That is to say, everyone may dress as he/she pleases, as long as it be in the traditional attire of our prevailing WASP society.

Z said...

I know, tio, I agree with you. But, there are safety issues and burqas are being used right now in the ME....2 women blew themselves up 3 weeks ago and took many with them.
It does seem ridiculous to even worry about this.....but, on top of all the problems the world's experiencing now because of islam's worst among them, one really can't blame good people for wanting to stop the influx as much as possible...it reminds them of trouble and that's just a fact.
I think if muslims ever marched against the terrorists amongst them and the imams here in this country preaching hate and the 35 training camps purported to be spread around America, people might not be quite so sensitive to burqas or anything else.
(approx 35 muslims did find the guts to do that in NYC about 2 years ago, I remember)

Also, the sudden inability of muslim students to attend classes without washing their feet in school bathrooms, or muslim butchers suddenly refusing to cut pork, or muslim cab drivers refusing to have dogs or booze in their cabs, etc etc....all after 9/11, is something I know a lot of people wonder about.
Who CARED about burqas, etc., before 9/11 and CAIR and demands made so suddenly, etc.? Nobody I know did.

psi bond said...

That other people object to burqas or other nontraditional customs in their society should be no reason for legislating their prohibition in a democratic country.

Anonymous said...

Bond, if Bill Maher is your man you'll likely enjoy his "Saudi Fashion Show" ... although it will likely offend apologists for Saudi "enlightenment".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3QG29jSL6Y&feature=related

Waylon

psi bond said...

Waylon, changing the subject proves nothing.

Anonymous said...

In order to achieve perfect fairness -- or at least to demonstrate the manifest UNfairness of the CREATOR -- everyone should be required to travel NAKED. There could be NO discrimination whatsoever under those circumstances.

Anyone who doesn't like it would just have to STAY HOME and not bother the majority with their pugnacious insistence on maintaining their prudery, their cultural traditions or their individuality.

A UNIFORM society is the only way to achieve a FAIR society.

Individuality is UNFAIR, so it must GO.

Unless they decide that it's "unfair" that some women have bigger breasts and some men bigger dicks, NAKED should level the playing field nicely.

Then we could run in to REAL trouble. If "bigger" is deemed legally "unfair" to the rest of society, then lib-logic would dictate that "bigger" had to be made "smaller," so the tiny titties and peewee wee-wees among us wouldn't have to suffer the pangs of feeling "inferior."

Lib-logic!

Ain't it Be-YOO -ti- ful?

~ FreeThinke

psi bond said...

Fauxthinker: Lib-logic

It's a willful misrepresentation of what liberals think.

Liberals believe on principle that all individuals are equal in the human rights they have, and the distinguishing attributes (dress, customs, language, etc.) that rightwingers traditionally make much ado about should not matter.

Encouragement of a diverse society is the way to achieve a fair society.