I hesitate to post this mostly because I have had the sense since my blog opened that people aren't too interested nor were they ever taught much about the Armenian genocide by the Turks but I just saw something that really stunned me.
I just heart British Simon Schama say to Elliot Spitzer on CNN (I know, you don't watch CNN, I watch them all!-)..Anyway, Schama said that Egypt could end up with an Ataturk and all would be well, "OR WORST, "a dangerous military"....Ataturk, the man who continued Talaat's genocide of the Armenians but is touted as a great man of Turkish history and in the liberal corridors of academia, was the better choice.
Don't even try to tell me how Ataturk wasn't at all responsible for the genocide.......don't even try. How can people so unthinkingly say things like this? Does he think nobody's listening? Well, it IS CNN, but surely SOMEBODY watches!! I do, from time to time :-)
z
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Neither of the two major biographies of Ataturk give him a role in the massacre.
Now is there someone in Egypt who can both encourage democracy and, like Ataturk, resist Muslim fundamentalism, well that's going to be unlikely.
Oh, Ducky, did you just read the two major biographies? Please, link something that says Ataturk tried to stop the massacres, okay? I'd really appreciate that and maybe it will help you.
Beamish....the rewriting of history is scary. Ya, Jim Jones...."lemon lime or STRAWBERRY!? They're GOOOOOD!" geesh
Those would be Lord Kinross and Anthony Mango.
... neither places Ataturk near the massacre. I read Kinross quite a while ago and felt he dodged the whole topic but the Mango biography is in close agreement.
Thanks, I'm sure they did an excellent job in their bios and, again, I'd love to see either of them show how Ataturk stopped the genocide. I'm willing to learn...when I see that, I'll feel differently toward him.
I'm not fighting this one with anybody, Ducky. You probably think Armenians didn't really die in the numbers experts claim, and, as most Turks will tell you, Armenians only died in legitimate war with Turks, anyway, ...all 1.5 million men, women and children.
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/kemal.html
Beamish, I've seen that but I'm glad you linked it...here's the part I almost quoted and so I will now "Kemal first directed his forces against the French in Cilicia with fatal consequences for the Armenians. With Allied encouragement and promises of protection, most surviving Armenians had repatriated to their hometowns in Cilicia in 1919. The attack by Kemalist units against the city of Marash in January 1920, which was accompanied by large-scale slaughtering of the Armenians, spelled the beginning of the end for the remnant Armenian population."
I'd changed my mind about posting it here because it is SO unseemly to argue the genocide and you can't believe how many people still say it didn't happen or the 1.5 million killed is an exaggeration.
By the way, the info above is of particular interest to me because Marash is where my Dad's side's from....from where my grandmother, at 9 years of age, was forced to march 3 months with almost no food or water to Syria, seeing floating bodies in dirty rivers and her own family brutalized to where she never spoke of it.
By the way, I"ve known quite a few Egyptians and non Arabs from Egypt and I honestly do believe we are selling them very short in suggesting Islamic radicals will fill the void if Mubarak finally goes, which it looks like he will.
This is not a bunch of sandaled Bedouans whose camels are tied to the closest hitching post, many are very highly educated people and the last thing they want is their women in burqas. At least nobody I know does.
I am listening to Americans on television saying how dangerous it will be to us if the Suez Canal is closed...and it WILL BE$$$. But, why can't consider what it would do to Egypt...ramifications of which could help keep it open?
z, about the only person getting worked up about a fundamentalist takeover is Glenn Beck and his brethren. They are certainly not near a majority movement.
Beamish, even a right winger can distinguish between questioning Ataturk's role in the genocide and the ridiculous stance of denying the event. Try reading the Kinross biography, it's a good deal more thorough than the World Net Daily nonsense you use to flll your brain cavity.
I rarely watch the Caliphate News Network.
Don't know much about the genocide aside the fact it happened. And Ataturk finished the job by stealing Armenian properties.
What I find interesting, and I'm sure that's why Little Shit Ducky wants to deny facts, is that Kermalism is marxist and nationalistic in nature. If not, it would be considered progressive. And, like national socialism, it led to genocide.
One more to add to your record LSD. So read as many bios as you need if that helps you a little bit.
Beamish, even a right winger can distinguish between questioning Ataturk's role in the genocide and the ridiculous stance of denying the event. Try reading the Kinross biography, it's a good deal more thorough than the World Net Daily nonsense you use to flll your brain cavity.
As a leftist, Ducky, you should know better than to attempt to pontificate to your intellectual betters. Your toothless mendaciousness has about as much impact as a stomping ant trying to quake a seismograph.
As easily seen above, in a span of less than eight hours, you've gone from saying it's "unlikely" Egypt will resist a transition to Islamic fundamentalism to trying to pass off that valid concern as one held by only a minor, negligible few.
In a span of less than eight hours, you've gone from attempting to exhonerate Kemal Ataturk of a role in the Armenian genocide (genocide, sir, not "massacre") to claiming an Ataturk hagiography that fails to mention his forces wiping out the Armenians in Celicia is "thorough."
Do try not to be completely imbecilic and self-contradictory in the same thread. I realize leftists have absolutely no grasp of linear logic whatsoever, but even you ought to be embarassed at carrying your schtick too far.
I don't know anything about any of that. In fact, I am still confused about who are the good and bad guys in the current protests in Egypt.
I lean toward anything that opposes what Obama does.
Ducky! YOu said "z, about the only person getting worked up about a fundamentalist takeover is Glenn Beck and his brethren. They are certainly not near a majority movement."
Glenn Beck's not worked up; he's giving his opinion. That used to be okay in America, DUcky. And, he's not alone; Please watch CNN. My GOD, Ducky, all their lib panels have been talking about this fear.
Looks today like Mubarak's pushing for it...he's brought violence into it. But, in my opinion, it's going to backfire.
Anderson Cooper cracked me up....maybe others are, but I have only heard HIM call the Square LIBERATION SQUARE! What hubris...he's renaming parts of Cairo.
What I hate to see just now is that the Egyptian Museum is on fire; no Egyptian with any love of country wants that to happen.
FB...exactly. Actually, I just learned recently that it was the Kurds who moved right into the homes of Armenians who were forced to get out NOW. Food was still on the plates, everything left behind.
My grandmother's family lost EVERYTHING.
My grandfather's bunch got out beforehand and Mom's Armenian family lived in Istanbul, where the Turks couldn't do their killing without getting more highly noticed.
The simple fact is Egyptian nationalism has been the rule for 59 years. If it fails, they're not going back to a monarchy.
That leaves... Islam fundamentalism the only remaining unifier.
Hopefully the revolution will not be hijacked.
Everyone assumes America must play the leading role in crafting some settlement or compromise between the Israelis and the Palestinians. But Jefferson, Madison, and Washington explicitly warned against involving ourselves in foreign conflicts.
Ron Paul
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