Wednesday, April 17, 2013

SIX THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THE SENATE IMMIGRATION BILL...What do you think?


As expected, the Gang of Eight released a summary of its immigration reform bill on Tuesday. The bipartisan group of eight senators — which includes Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), and John McCain (R-Ariz.) — have released, in the words of The New York Times, "the most ambitious effort in at least 26 years to repair, update and reshape the American immigration system." What does that include?
1. A path to citizenship for America's 11 million undocumented immigrants
No surprise here. The so-called "path to citizenship" would allow undocumented immigrants with no felonies to pay a $500 fine and back taxes in order to gain "registered provisional" status — which would protect them from deportation. After six years, if they still have a clean record and another $500, they can keep that status, according to The Washington Post.

Ten years after initially gaining registered provisional status, they would be allowed to apply for a Green Card, provided they pay $1,000, take English and civics classes, have paid all of their taxes, and have avoided committing any felonies. Three years after that they would be free to apply for full citizenship.
For kids who qualify for the DREAM Act — i.e. students who came here before the age of 16 and have been in the United States for more than five years — the path to citizenship would only be five years instead of 13, as long as they successfully complete two years of college or spend two years in the military. 
2. Billions for border securityThe Department of Homeland Security might be the biggest winner in this bill. According to CNN, it would gain $3 billion in additional funding for better fences, more Border Patrol agents, unmanned drones, and drone operators.
The DHS would then have five years to reach its "Border Security Goal," which entails apprehending and returning 90 percent of the people who try to cross into the United States illegally. If it were to fail, the program would be reassessed by Congress.
3. More pressure on employers thanks to E-Verify
U.S. companies with more than 5,000 employees would be forced to use the E-Verify system, which would run a potential employee's photo identification against a huge database of photos to verify their legal status. The proposal has detractors across the political spectrum, with both the ACLU and Cato Institute warning it would more or less create a national ID, according to The Washington Post. "It's big government at it's worst," says Jim Harper, director of information studies at the Cato Institute.

4. A mixed bag for Silicon Valley
On one hand, tech companies would get an increase in the number of H1-B visas available for high-skilled workers like engineers — something that none other than Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg has been lobbying for. The problem, according to Politico, is that companies with 15 percent of their workforce on H1-B visas would have to prove, with each new hire, that they weren't displacing a U.S. worker with a foreign one. In Silicon Valley that could slow the growth of otherwise rapidly expanding start-ups. 

5. New visas for low-skill workers
The bill would create 20,000 new W-visas in 2015, for employees who would work in nursing homes or provide in-home care, for example. After five years that number could increase to 200,000 depending on factors like employer demand. Currently, companies have no good way to bring in low-skill, year-round workers because current visas only apply to temporary and seasonal workers, according to USA Today. If passed, the measure would be a boon to nursing homes, assisted-living facilities, restaurants, and hotels.

6. Good news for parents and children, bad news for siblingsToday, there is a cap of 88,000 visas available for the spouses, children, and parents of permanent citizens in the United States, according to ABC News. The new bill would eliminate that cap, making it easier for immigrants to bring their families with them. The downside for citizens with brothers and sisters overseas? Visas for siblings, as well as married children over 31, would be cut...By Keith Wagstaff, for THE WEEK.


Z:  Okay....I put in green above two things which particularly surprised me and which I like...LEARN ENGLISH and  CIVICS CLASSES.........and TWO YEARS IN THE MILITARY.  Cool.  But the 3rd greened letters spell "program reassessed by Congress"...SINCE WHEN has Congress actually done that?  (hint: probably never)  Also:  How can aliens pay back taxes?  Did they keep records of money under the table?   So, that doesn't work easily.  And, how do they prove when they exactly came when they snuck in?  Who do we believe?  And, as far as the Dream Act, how do kids prove they were here before they were sixteen:?

What do you think is terribly right about these six points and what's terribly wrong?

Z

46 comments:

JonBerg said...

"What do you think is terribly right about these six points and what's terribly wrong?"

This bill, so far, just raises questions for me:

1) How will or have these people be/been identified?

2) If (1) above is unsettled what are the prospects of such persons coming forward, on their own?

3) Given the protracted and ownerous nature of this plan, how many will follow it through to fruition?

4) Given the fact that the Border isn't close to being secure, how will on-going immigration be monitored?

5) How will the bureaucracy, operating under what's sure to be a labyrinth of regulations, be funded (I seriously doubt the proposed "fines" will do it)?

6) Bearing in mind that it's impossible to identify [all] of the "undocumented aliens" but the identity of some will be known, what will happen to these people if they choose not to parcipate in the program? If deportation is the answer, why hasn't this happened already?

Barring further information, I see this as an effort, on the part of the Senate, to appear to be "doing something" although unworkable, as a practical matter.

Speedy G said...

Please. Don't buy this trojan horse. Look how Obama has circumvented US Law through Executive Orders to BLOCK ENFORCEMENT of the pieces of existing law that he doesn't like.

These people WILL ALL be on Welfare. It will become illegal for responsible State officials to try and identify who they are and try and keep them OFF it.

Ed Bonderenka said...

Speedy and Jonberg are right.
First "The DHS would then have five years to reach its "Border Security Goal," : There is no metric for measuring the border security. Byron York pointed this out a week or two ago. He was reporting open testimony.
And there should be no deal until it's secure. But we can't currently verify it.
Second "U.S. companies with more than 5,000 employees would be forced to use the E-Verify system,"
Too many landscaping and construction contractors would be excluded.
Third, "H1-B visas" already displace US IT workers. I've seen it. And the visa holders become virtual indentured servants. I'm not IT so I don't have a horse in the race.

Ducky's here said...

They have made an arrest in the bombings.

Z said...

Ducky, it sounds like that's not 100%...from what I just Googled after reading your comment.
But it looks like they've id'd someone but haven't arrested yet?

Ducky's here said...

Yeah, it's a bit of a false alarm, z but it is clear that a major breakthrough has occurred.

They may well have identified a suspect.

Lisa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lisa said...

I am sure there are more han 11 million here already. Why would we push for them to learn English when our country is already bi-lingual ?
And now that the AFL-CIO is involved what will they do unionize these workers and pay them 15-20 per hour and give them the jobs that Americans now would want?
And I agree with Jon Berg ,it will just create a bigger welfare state. In other words we're doomed.

FreeThinke said...

Is it REALLY a genuine "SUSPECT," Ducky -- or possibly just a FALL GUY?

I don't trust ANY arm of the government any more than I trust Islamist Jihadists, Anarchists, Communists or Skinheads.

The government -- as far as I'm concerned -- is just another terrorist organization we must guard against and hope to avoid.

Impertinent said...

@FT:

"or possibly just a FALL GUY?"

Could be...I still remember how they managed to finger LHO within an hour of Kennedy's death back in '63...pretty convenient.

FreeThinke said...

Unfortunately, Jon and Lisa are quite right in their assessment of the Immigration Reform Bill, which I regard as impractical, impracticable, mean-spirited, fracical and downright stupid.

Marco Rubio is a BIG disappointment. We will find no "Savior" in him. Mark my words.

Henry Higgins described Rubio very well at the Embassy Ball, though he didn't know it, when he exclaimed, "THAT TOADYING IGNORAMUS!"

I hope he Rubio's you the wrong way, as he has me. ;-)

Whatever it is we need, Rubio ain't it.

When it comes to these -- probably TWENTY-million -- undocumented individuals who have lived and worked among us for a very long time, because of OUR short-sightedness and penchant for expediency, I offer only this carefully considered advice.

MERGE don't PURGE.

We really have no other choice, unless you want to reinstitute an American Version of the Third Reich.

DON'T!

Impertinent said...

I think I despise all illegals.

And I don't care where they came from....but some are more useful than others.

Z said...

My thoughts are that if they could actually implement the bill as described here and truly TRULY enforce it, it's not bad at all.

Sadly, I'm not so sure that would work.

It's unrealistic that any bill is better than this. It sounds like many of you prefer busing at least the Hispanic (more local) illegals out..........what else could you mean?

Impertinent said...

"It sounds like many of you prefer busing at least the Hispanic (more local) illegals out.."


Seeing as how 99% of them are uneducated, poor and not a very welcome addition to our swelling welfare rolls ...placated and catered to over born here, native Americans that should be CONSIDERED FIRST??

We turn our laws inside out to accommodate an illegal presence that have broken our borders, flooded the country with drugs, busted state budgets, violated federal and states rights and laws....caused our states to be sued and at war with an uncaring government...

And now we see they're flooding over again...knowing they'll get amnesty?

What the hell kind of a lunatic asylum are we running here?

They Say/We Say said...

Watch this 31 sec. video
They are coming for our guns and

Children

Then think about the illegal's children.

beamish said...

Either deport them all, or make them all citizens with wage garnishments on their checks for back taxes owed.

Anything else is bullshit.

beamish said...

Either deport them all, or make them all citizens with wage garnishments on their checks for back taxes owed.

Anything else is bullshit.

Z said...

beamish, I WISH...but they can hide wages earned ... as I said in my post, how they heck can they even prove when they came in so those new laws can be enforced?
that's a weak link in much of the new bill.

Imp...think it through. I don't appreciate illegals sponging on us any more than the next guy but really...?? BUSES out of here? Then what?
Sure, I'd like to see an impervious situation at the border; NOBODY can come in illegally, it's literally impossible.
Then get everyone out and start, one by one, in the decent way MOST COUNTRIES handle LEGAL immigration(and we did at one time), allowing them in with papers, where they'll be, people who can support them until they can (which was the law, remember?)
We allowed this nightmare and we know the above won't work...there can be no impervious border, no matter WHAT, and we can't just empty ourselves of twelve million people who leave behind jobs, apartments, etc etc......

what a terrible situation.

And, you know? so many of them would be happy to come forward if we had something we could do to let them stay AND have them stop living off of us; that part of this new bill I LIKE...NO FEDERAL MONEY until...........

Impertinent said...

@Z:


"so many of them would be happy to come forward.."


What makes you draw that conclusion? My understanding is that they don't want citizenship at all. Ask La Raza or anyone of the militant illegals...they want the goodies...they want special treatment....and above all...they want RECONQUISTA!

Remember...they don't wave American flags....they're proud and happy to balkanize us and wave their flags.

They spit on our flag. And how many stories have we seen of American kids suspended from school for wearing or showing the flag...because it might upset the illegals?

BS...major major BS.

Law and Order Teacher said...

Z,
My fondest wish is that some of this would occur. My brain tells me that it's a giant cluster that is unenforceable by a government to screws up nearly everything it tries to do. My biggest problem is the price tag. I don't see it. This would probably take a ghastly amount of money and bureaucracy to run. I'm too cynical believe it will turn into anything other that another Education Department, Homeland Security, TSA etc.

beamish said...

beamish, I WISH...but they can hide wages earned

Not with a job that pays worth a damn. The federal maximum wage garnishment is an additional 25% after taxes. On top of that, whatever the state's maximum wage garnishment (varies by state) is, which goes all the way up to 25%

So, then when las espaldas mojadas get a minimum wage job in America, taxes and wage garnishments devour their paycheck down from $7.35 an hour to $2.50 an hour. Now we're giving them an enticement to stay in their home country and make more money.





They Say/We Say said...

You all may not like me commenting here anymore, but some prominent eyes peer here, and as the tone in BO's voice in today's press conference confirms some one saw what was written and such the vote today will send BO back to the U.N. with his tail between his legs.
And, The Texas AG has filed suite against the Fed. Gov., for Hillary signing that Treaty (Small Arms Ban).
If the Senate tries to Ratify such--will trigger The Law Suite - that the Treaty - violates the Constitution; and may even also trigger a breech in Texas Treaty of Annex for State Hood, and automatically make for LEGAL Secession.
Do you all have a State AG willing to file suite on your behalf?
We need more States To Make The DemocRates straighten up and fly right.
And again watch this 31 sec. video
that will blow your mind what is coming next.

Children

Poor illegal wont even know what hit them.

Kid said...

I can't imagine how they'd be able to enforce any of this or why they'd want to. So, it's all lip service that amounts to nothing other than making 'the issue' go away.

Here's my plan for illegals. Welcome them across the Arizona border with food and drink and a free one way bus ride to Washington DC.

Z said...

imp, that's a small percentage. If I personally know many Central Americans and they all are appreciative of living here, none are La Raza freaks, who says that so many of them are?
I know that's a HORRIBLE threat; I really do know La Raza can do a lot of damage...remember I've posted on hearing of Mexicans being stopped for speeding violations and the cops finding tons of guns and ammo in their cars, and that's only the ones innocently stopped.
But, I firmly believe, and know some, who'd fight for us, not against us.

Beamish, what I meant was that they can't prove what they have earned. Many work under the counter, most don't pay taxes, etc. etc.

They Say/ what prominent eyes peer here!? :)
And why would I want you gone??? I honestly don't understand your bit about BO and the UN and today's press conf...What was up in the conference and what about BO?

Z said...

Kid! You just made my night! :-)

Kid said...

Thanks Z. And I'm serious.

They Say/We Say said...

BO is P O ed.
The background check was not even allowed to come up for a vote today...ie 60 votes. Shot down.
Uncle Joe Pluggs could not have his vote for a tie breaker (He had the BIGGEST FROWN on his face at the Press Conference.
BO's voice was wrought with ANGER.
5 Dems did not vote--but, Bo still blamed the Repubs.
And please watch the video
the link>Children

Z said...

TS/WS...OH, the gun background check thing...ya, I have been at work all day and worked till 9 pm last night so I haven't watched much news.
Thanks.
AHHH...Obama's showing his ire again, huH?
Have we ever had a president so thin skinned and irritable? not in my lifetime, the JERK.

This is why we MUST KEEP THE HOUSE at the next off-presidential year elections. MUST.

But, of course, the Supreme Court will be ruined in the next 4 years, so there isn't much hope, anyway.
Cheery, aren't I?

Kid said...

They Say, thanks for that bit. Prolly means he'll head off to vacation like a spoiled brat and when he's away he is not doing evil..usually. So that's good stuff.

Watch the vid? Naw thanks. My TV wouldn't appreciate it.

They Say/We Say said...

Kid it is 31 sec. and will blow your mind
The illegals will not know what hit them when this comes down on us.
The link is on my earlier comment.
And a post at my place.

Impertinent said...

Most laws are meant to stop people from doing something, and to penalize those who disregard those laws.

More generally, laws are meant to protect the society from the law breakers.
But our immigration laws are different. Here the whole focus is on the “plight” of those who have broken the laws, and on what can be done to lift the stigma and ease the pressures they feel, so that they can “come out of the shadows” and “normalize” their lives.


Merely using the word “illegal” to describe their breaking the law is considered to be a sign of mean-spiritedness, if not racism.

The Associated Press refuses to let their reporters refer to people who sneaked across the border into this country, in violation of American immigration laws, as “illegal immigrants.”


On the other hand, if an ordinary American citizen breaks a law, no one cares if he has to live in fear for years — “in the shadows,” as it were— worrying that his illegal act will be discovered and punished. No one bothers to come up with euphemisms to keep from calling what he did illegal.


No cities announce that they will provide “sanctuary,” so that American shoplifters, or even jay-walkers, will be protected from the law. But, in some places, illegal immigrants are treated almost as if they were in a witness protection program.

Impertinent said...

What is even more remarkable about this special treatment is that you are not supposed to think about it as special treatment.

When a new immigration law is proposed that simply overlooks violations of the old law, that is not supposed to be called “amnesty” — even though the word “amnesty” has the same root as “amnesia.” It is all about forgetting.


Why is it not supposed to be called “amnesty”? Because illegal immigrants must “earn” their citizenship. But if an ordinary American citizen gets a traffic ticket, the law is not going to just forget about it, no matter what good deeds he does afterwards.


People who come here perfectly legally have to earn their citizenship. Why is earning citizenship some special reason for ignoring the illegality of others?
Impressive feats of sophistry have become the norm in discussions of illegal immigration.


For example, we are told that there is no way that the government can find all the people who are in the country illegally and deport them.

Does anyone imagine that the government can find all the embezzlers, drunk drivers or bank robbers in the country? And does anyone think that this is a reason why the government should stop trying to enforce laws against embezzlement, drunk driving or bank robbery? Or let embezzlers, drunk drivers and bank robbers “come out of the shadows” and “normalize” their lives?

Impertinent said...

Even if the government does not lift a finger to find illegal immigrants, many will come to the attention of law enforcement officials because of their violations of other laws.

But, even then, there is no assurance that they will be deported — and certainly not in “sanctuary” cities.


Why are there immigration laws in the first place? For the benefit of the American people — not for the benefit of people in other countries who want to come here.


But political and media elites treat the American people as if they are the problem — a problem to be circumvented with sophistry and pious promises about border security that have not been kept in all these years since the last amnesty, decades ago.


Making an irreversible decision to add millions of people — and their dissimilar cultures — permanently to the American body politic is something that should take months of careful examination and discussion, both inside and outside of Congress.

But it is likely to get less time than you would take to decide whether to buy a house, or perhaps even a car.


What should American immigration policy be? It doesn’t matter what any of us think that policy should be if the borders are not secure, because whoever wants to come across that border will come across anyway, in defiance of whatever the policy might be.

Impertinent said...

FINALLY:


If legal benefits are conferred on illegal immigrants before the border is secured, we may as well give up any pretense that we have an immigration policy, because benefits conferred are never going to be taken back, no matter how porous the border remains.

Z said...

Imp...your comments are excellent..I agree with much of what you've said.

I just read a piece about illegals that infuriated me and that's what I wrote about in tomorrow's post..MAN, it made me SO Mad!!!!

GRRRR!!!

Gad, that "we can't call them ILLEGAL" thing is almost illiterate, isn't it. Even more than politically dishonest.

SOmeone is ILLEGAL, came here breaking our laws. But they're not illegal.

man

They Say/We Say said...

The lady in the vid is a professor; and a regular on MSNBC.
This is an example what is pounded into the young skulls full of mush, at the Universities.

Impertinent said...

Oh...and Obama's childish rant and rage tonight?

I got this off a blog and it really...really hits the nail on the head:

"You demanded a vote.
You got it.
You lost.
Now, STFU, you ignorant, narcissistic, child-abusing, asinine, arrogant, pompous, condescending, classless, ill-mannered, puerile, petulant, braggadocios, ridiculous, contemptible, idiotic, demagogic, infantile, dishonest, inane, know-nothingish, authoritarian, crisis-manufacturing, incapable-of-leading, dilly-dallying, boorish, insipid, hypocritical, Machiavellian, Orwellian, unaccountable, fragile, imperialistic, windbaggish, dithering, nouveau riche, vain, vacuous, vapid, vulgar, spoiled, unenlightened, uninformed, inexperienced, cretinous, witless, stupid morceau de merde!"



Wow....and some French at the end...Frogburger....Froggy???

Impertinent said...

"The lady in the vid is a professor.."

Yep...so is Bernadine Dohrn and Bill Ayers...honored after being convicted of murder and bombings as "Weatherbeasts"!

And...like Moochele and her dumbo eared cohabitor....and AA beneficiary. So why do they get any attention at all? Cause MSNBC is officially a POS sad ass excuse for a "news" station employing certifiable mentally ill bozos who should be added to the "DO NOT SELL GUNS TO list as they're all like Adam Lanzas's.

Z said...

That video is INcredible..hateful @#(&*@#$(*&#

And she says it with a straight face! "Your children are not your children!" Man, they're Maoists of the first order. They'll be telling parents how many kids they can have next..and to kill the girls if they have one already.




BY THE WAY..(Imp!!)...I accidentally erased my post for the first time EVER that was set for tomorrow........
SO...maybe it was meant to be because it was a harangue about how illegals are demanding THEIR RIGHTS. I was asking WHAT THE HECK RIGHTS HAVE PEOPLE WHO BROKE INTO OUR COUNTRY ILLEGALLY AND WHOM WE"RE PAYING FOR??

end of rant!

TOMORROW IS A SUPER POST BY KID...he sent it to me via email and I begged him to print it here..and he allowed it.

come by tomorrow, folks. QUITE a piece.

Impertinent said...

@Z:

"it was a harangue about how illegals are demanding THEIR RIGHTS."


That's the gist of mine too...and that's what galls me and why...I'd round up all of them pronto....and arrest them...and send their asses back to Juarez. I'm disgusted with their hubris, arrogance and our country even more. Including the asshole of the Gang of 8. Rubio is nothing more than a apologist...for...yep...his people. That's what it all comes down to. All of them....and the 80% of whites in this country can go to hell...their ancestry...their accomplishments...their history....all rubbish now on the altar of PC Bullshit.

Just who the Fook do they think they are? Name me another country that's bend over and take it in the keester like we do when they catch illegals?

None. They PISS me off.

JonBerg said...

Hey, make up all of the 'feel good' laws you want but the real facts remain:

1) Our borders should be considered sovereign

2) Our borders are not a conduit for entry by insurgents from hostile places or ideologies

3) Our borders do not constitute a sort of a 'pressure release valve' for a nation, well endowed with resources and , at least, potentially quite capable of accommodating its own citizenry

4) I submit that if the borders were actually secured, once and for all (no more coming in), the remaining "Illegals" would assimulate, especially their lineage and the 'jerks' would be eliminated by judicial attrition

5) OK try all of the the other BS that you want but until we have a REAL border it's "pissing in the wind"!

They Say/We Say said...

Waco, Texas
Fertilizer Plant BLOWS UP.
Fire Fighters were called to put out a small structural fire and some police to direct traffic.
Then BOOM--HOUSES IN A FOUR BLOCK Radius BLOWN TO BITS!
60-70 People dead 100's hurt.
High School Football Field, make shift Trey-Odge, then chemicals due to high winds forced to move to another location.
2,000 to 3,000 Population Town.
Blast felt as far as Ennis, Tex.
People have no cars either. Destroyed.
People taken to other towns Hospitals.
High Winds limited Emergency Helicopters.
Bad situation.

Impertinent said...

@ThaeySaidwesaid...:

Waco, Texas"

The new revolution and remembrance has begun....April 19th...a day of infamy and over reach, genocide and murder by our FBI and ATF. This is the way it'll all go down. Selective skirmishes....IED's and general mayhem.

Maybe our homegrown have had enough of illegals....muslims and being screwed and ignored by the POS that are in charge now.

I've always known that the pendulum would have to swing the other way.

Z said...

This TX fire is absolutely HIDEOUS...so many buildings/homes FLATTENED and so many people burned, injured, etc etc...

Please pray for them all.....this is just terrible.
I just can't get over how those townspeople are feeling..

It just hit me how many people were HOME at night in those now-flattened homes! I think there are going to be hundreds of deaths, God forbid. Pray for them.

I want to give kudos to the FOX girl doing the interviews of people on the ground there....she's a late-night live news person they keep on during their repeats all night long and she's doing a truly good job.

God bless them all.

They Say/We Say said...

I think our home grown are too cunning for this bull sh@**.
Tim MacVey was a good soldier.
And what do good soldiers do?
Obey Orders!

beamish said...

Beamish, what I meant was that they can't prove what they have earned. Many work under the counter, most don't pay taxes, etc. etc.

Sucks to be them. Under my plan, they're either deported, or we give them a provisional work visa with maximum federal and state wage garnishments until their debt to American society is paid in full. If we can't document where they've worked or how much they made, then we calculate how much hourly minimum wage to tax them on based upon how many hours they've been alive - which is precisely how long they potentially were illegally present in America.

So, an 18 years on the dot aged illegal immigrant would have to pay back $48322.57 as a "guest worker" with up to 50% of his paycheck garnished on top of taxes.

To this I would add that it would be illegal to pay said illegal immigrant with "guest worker" status more than minimum wage.

With a 40 hour week at minimum wage minus 15% income tax minus 50% wage garnishment, said "guest worker" would take home around $125 a week, and the garnishments will have his debt to America paid off in around 7 and a half years, after which he can take advantage of any federal assistance programs or at least ask his boss for a raise.

And if said "guest worker" should become unemployed for longer than an hour at anytime during that 7 and a half year repayment plan, the balance paid on it resets to zero and a new debt is recalculated based on how old they are in hours times minimum wage. At that time they are given the choice of self-deporting or paying off the debt.

They would not come here for opportunity if we didn't spare any for them.