See
below. It’s about the city of Kennesaw, GA, close to where I grew up.
They
passed the ordinance in response to an ordinance passed earlier that year in a
town in Illinois banning all guns.
What’s
amazing about the drop in crime after the gun law below passed is that, if I’m not
mistaken, the population of the town has gone up considerably since 1982.
Gun law[edit]
See
below. It’s about the city of Kennesaw, GA, close to where I grew up.
They
passed the ordinance in response to an ordinance passed earlier that year in a
town in Illinois banning all guns.
What’s
amazing about the drop in crime after the gun law below passed is that, if I’m not
mistaken, the population of the town has gone up considerably since 1982.
The town is noted for its unusual gun legislation. In 1982 the city passed an ordinance [Sec 34-21][19]
(a) In order to provide for the emergency management of the city, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the city limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore.
(b) Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony.
Gun rights activist David Kopel stated that there is evidence that this gun law has reduced the incident rate of home burglaries citing that in the first year, home burglaries dropped from 65 before the ordinance, down to 26 in 1983, and to 11 in 1984.[20] The overall crime rate had decreased by more than 50% between 1982 and 2005.[21] Another report observed a noticeable reduction in burglary from 1981, the year before the ordinance was passed, to 1999. A 2001 media report stated that Kennesaw's crime rates continued to decline and were well below the national average, making citizens feel safer and more secure.[22] The city's website says that the city has the lowest crime rate in Cobb county.[23
So...pretty interesting, huh? what do you think?
Z (Thanks, Hal!)
57 comments:
Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.
In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.
They love to bring up comments about how Republicans are murdering people by not passing more laws, but when they get a chance to address how that's going to work, all you hear are crickets..
The Liberal Internet trolls, Sadists and psychopaths think that they have it all figured out... WRONG!.
The Kennesaw ordinance [and some others like it around the country] is not really enforced, as it wouldn't pass muster if challenged in the courts. But the philosophy behind it is sound. A homeowner should be required to [when physically and mentally capable] be able to defend one's home and family from harm.
I would go further, and state that it should be every citizens responsibility....their duty...to defend themselves [again, when capable] from a threat. Ideally, those who desire not to defend themselves could be charged a fee for use of government services, when law enforcement is summoned without exerting a basic level of defense. This would never come to pass in our society, for we as a whole have been groomed to let the State take care of our basic needs.....at the expense of individual responsibility.
CI +1
I completely agree with what CI wrote, above. I support liberal firearm laws, such as found in Montana, as these make perfect sense from several points of view. Citizens who are armed, whether in the homes, in their cars, or on their persons, whether open or concealed carry, do not require others (armed police) to protect them from thugs. The notion of “to protect and serve” is a bunch of hooey, for when it takes 40 minutes for police to show up, there is no municipal protection or municipal service. It has been said that in protecting oneself, one’s family, or property, you only have to wait one second after a firm but steady trigger pull.
I don’t like this trend in America today where police departments are purchasing expensive military combat hardware —everything from automatic weapons to medium to heavily armored vehicles. If every crook, thief, punk, or rapist knew that there is a very good possibility that the home or person they are targeting is armed, if they knew that there is a very good possibility that their ass is about to get shot (unless the idiot’s name is Treyvon), they are not going to assault, rob, or rape anyone.
Finally, in addition to more citizens carrying weapons, I think that local or county police should invite individuals with concealed carry permits to become reserve deputies so that they can effect arrests and assist uniformed police when needed.
Sam - "I think that local or county police should invite individuals with concealed carry permits to become reserve deputies so that they can effect arrests and assist uniformed police when needed."
I think there's merit to this. Virginia has the ability for county's to appoint Special Constables, and though this seems typically reserved for fixed site security roles....I believe it could be easily broadened to include qualified citizens....especially those who live in outlying communities, where it takes LEOs some amount of time to respond to.
Interesting that the gun loons would go bonkers if there wee any restrictions on ownership but feel this is legal. Typical fringe right thought.
Anyway, thieves are going to break in when you aren't home so my guess i that a big night in Kennesaw is staying in munching pork rind and watching rus of Duck Dynasty.
It is people like these lunatic Progressives on these very boards that want all the law abiding citizens to be disarmed and unable to protect themselves from all the NON LAW ABIDING CRIMINALS out there with guns that don't care what the laws are,.....GET THE FACTS JACK,,, How many people are killed each year by law abiding citizens breaking the law? , Also How many people are killed in crimes by people that CAN NOT LEGALLY HAVE A GUN? , , and here is one more for you to research , How many people use a gun to protect and save their life or a family members life from some POS with a gun that once again CANT LEGALLY HAVE ONE BECAUSE THEY ARE A CRIMINAL..... I have come to the conclusion that Liberal’s as well as liberal politicians and liberal organizations Don't Know JACK SHIT about the 2nd amendment or the Constitution.
It's a damn shame and extremely depressing to have a lying president that can’t be trusted by his own people. in the past 5 years we have seen the list of Obama administration scandals, not the least of which is the September 11, 2012 attack on our Benghazi consulate that took the life of a U.S. ambassador and three security personnel. Go form bad to worse. The claim about the video being a response to a video has been completely discredited. And we can expect even bigger whopper’s to come out of his mouth when he tell us about the “Seven Million” people who have subscribed to Obamacare. Sadly, I have little confidence in our government to tell us what is “Really” going on behind the closed door of Obama’s Office.
Not only did the President deliberately lie about Obamacare, but also about welfare programs, unemployment, Crimea, the “stimulus” programs that never worked, The “Red line” asserted for Syria, and the list goes on and on. both at home and abroad. And you can blame it ALL on those DUMB Ass’s who voted this inept moron in to office twice. Yes, indeed, this is all the consequence of the fact that the Left (Liberals) lives in la-la make- believe land. They think that “Hope and Change” was a reality that could have be molded to their ideology. But dumb ideas have consequences! And here we are!
This we know for a fact: ducky never tires of his dishonesty ... the emblem of leftist America. Reminds me of Hillary Clinton's recent plea for a more civil dialogue. Quacks all ...
After the tragic shooting at Ft. Hood, the liberals are at it again! Unfortunately the Liberal Party don't have any Geniuses!
The Democrats staunchly supported more gun control while staunchly fighting the punishment of criminals that are the problem. They didn't want to enforce mandatory sentences which are already law. Even though there is a 46% recidivism rate, so Go Figure! Punish the criminals and leave the us law abiding citizens alone.
So, that's really where we are at with all these Liberal bed wetter parasites.
They just love regurgitating this bullshit about how great things are everywhere else the "progressive" bullshit has been enacted. And their leader Comrade Obama is number one on that list.
Anyone who believes anything Obama promises is an idiot.
Even in countries where there are lots of firearms in circulation, the stats show the U.S.A. still leads those countries in gun deaths, suggesting that perhaps Americans don't know enough about gun safety or perhaps they're too dumb to be allowed to own those extremely dangerous weapons. Almost every day we read somewhere that some irresponsible gun owner has left his loaded firearm where children can get hold of it and kill either themselves or others. Almost every day we read of some irresponsible gun owner accidentally shooting himself or someone else as he cleans his gun or demonstrates its use to someone. Does Murder by Guns have any correlation to Slavery in our past? One has to wonder
@CI:
Jeez...
^^^^^ 100
But.."I would go further, and state that it should be every citizens responsibility....their duty...to defend themselves [again, when capable] from a threat."
I'm hoping that includes outside a home as well as in?
@ Anonymous
Actually, unless you rely exclusively on Think Progress as your primary source of information, statistics reveal that the United States is one of the safest countries in the world, except for cities such as Detroit, Chicago, and Washington DC where only outlaws are allowed to own or possess a firearm. In fact, Washington DC leads the nation with 1,508 violent crimes per 100,000 in population. In murders alone, Washington DC reports 29.1 per 100,000, while the nation as a whole only 4.7 per 100,000. Nationwide, the percentage of homocides by handgun is .0018. But I can understand why “Anonymous” doesn’t want us to know who he or she is .... after all, no one wants the world to know they are a complete idiot.
Sources: Feberal Bureau of Investigation, and US Bureau of the Census
" Does Murder by Guns have any correlation to Slavery in our past? One has to wonder"
No one doesn't you moron.
You would equate systematic slavery (defended by the Democratic Party) and the intentional terrorism of the democrat backed KKK, with accidental shootings?
No wonder you prefer to remain anonymous.
Ducky. What was your point?
@Ducky:
Just talked to my cousin in Kennesaw last night. He wanted to share his luxurious beef bourguignon recipe using a Red Burgundy wine with me. And he asked if I had watched a recent special on NPR and the latest episode of Cosmos?
Then we chatted about his new Sig Sauer P226 compared to my lowly Bersa CC.
I didn't hear him mention Duck Dynasty at all. Maybe you could ask your redneck southies buds to fill you in.
Dipstick...Kennesaw... located in the greater Atlanta metropolitan area. Along the I75 corridor of wealth, commerce and success.
The median income for a household in the city was $61,355 and the median income for a family was $ 75,465.
Doesn't look to shabby to me...but you do.
Sam, great minds think alike.
So do we.
Imp, Perfect.
Imp - "I'm hoping that includes outside a home as well as in?"
Absolutely. Any place a citizen has a right to be.
Ed - Anon does have a tangntial point, though it's not the one he/she intended to make. Gun control legislation has it's roots in measures to keep newly freed blacks from being able to arm and defend themselves....this carried through into the civil right era.
@CI:
".this carried through into the civil right era..."
Past CI...today blacks use SYG and self defense ( in FL ) far more per capita then their counterparts. And why shouldn't they?
Someone deconstructed those statistics about 'gun deaths' in the United States. They are so heavily weighted in one small fraction of the population, that when you remove that anomaly from the count, Europe is higher. It's a tragic fact of our culture that none of you have to ask what that anomaly population is. Truly.
Years ago a major Florida city (I think St. Petersburg) had enough of rising rape rates. Long before 'shall issue' laws were on the books, the city passed a concealed carry law which required reasonable instruction and certification. They publicized the hell out of it, and actively got women enrolled. I forget the numbers who signed on (I think it was only in 3 figures) but rapes were cut in half the first year and stayed low several years out up to the time an article was published on the success of the program. I remember thinking then, I wouldn't want to carry a piece, but I'm grateful for those who do. Because the perps don't know which is which.
I don't know about Boston, but there are plenty of hot burglaries in LA, Ducky.
Which brings us 'round to school shootings. Where else can a perp know with certainly that he won't face armed resistance? Yah -- in the 'gun free zones.' Like the Batman shooter who went out of his way to find a 'no guns allowed' theater.
And did I mention the NRA trained black communities how to exercise their 2nd amendment rights to protect themselves from racist thugs early on in the civil rights era?
See a theme here?
@Baysider:
"I wouldn't want to carry a piece, but I'm grateful for those who do. Because the perps don't know which is which. "
Are you saying because they would protect you too if the need arose?
My talk with the LEO's down here is they'd be OK with open carry. Cause they know that if you do...you better have a permit and that they wouldn't have to worry about who's concealing.
Pond Scum (what a name!), Pol. Junky and Moonbat....what some people don't realize is life will never be perfect and that only having guns in criminal's hands is as imperfect as it gets.
What happened at Ft Hood is a horrible example of a man who apparently was pushed to his limits. How a gun law that affects millions, just to avoid a sick man like that's actions can work is naïve and a little optimistic. We HAVE laws. Let's put them to good use, particularly in gun stores.
CI...it wouldn't pass the courts, but the folks there look at it as law. And it's working well.
SAM, ED...what's truly sad and frightening is that in Germany the people are completely unarmed. But the immigrants threatening them on every level (believe me, you're not hearing here how bad it is there) DO carry knives and guns and are mercilessly attacking Germans in the underground stations, etc. I WISH our media'd tell this story. It's a portrait of things to come.
As my German stepson said "We have no recourse....we can't be armed but they are and they're using them."
Ducky, thanks for your typical unbelievably ELITIST, slam on anybody in the South. Is it because you were raised there and feel resentment? Why must you be so witheringly insulting to good people?
Boston crime statistics, according to Neighborhood Scout, are as follows:
Violent crimes: 5,303 (including 57 murders, 254 rapes, 1,924 robberies, and 3,068 assaults)
Property crimes: 19,290
Total: 24,593
Per 1,000 residents, this equates to 8.41 in violent crimes, 30.59 in property crimes, and 39.0 overall.
Compared to state-wide crimes per 1,000 residents, Boston is 8.41 to Massachusetts 4.08. In Boston, crimes per square mile: 271; Massachusetts crimes per square mimle: 33.
Personally, I think Ducky should just shut the hell up.
@Z:
"Why must you be so witheringly insulting to good people?"
It's the disease of elitist mentalism...he catches it whenever he's at a wine bar, a starbucks or passing within 2 miles of havahd. He can see all those pinkies in the air while they toast their assumed superiority over the bourgeois masses that their TA's come from. ( Lynn, Revere or Swampscott ).
And of course dismissing the dozens and dozens of excellent colleges in the South. Or it's wealth, capital, success, standard of living and contributions to energy and America on the whole.
All sophistication, bigotry and ignorance lie in Cambridge...a few terrorists too....but they hide in shelter so they wouldn't know.
"Are you saying because they would protect you too if the need arose?"
I assume she means that picking on someone is like Russian Roulette.
You don't know which one is loaded.
@ED:
I'd like to know. I'm assuming my version?
As many people would hope...let someone else help me out? Dunno. No slur on Bay though.
@Z:
"Is it because you were raised there and feel resentment?.."
Maybe he helped James Dickey write that oinked scene ( from first hand experience ) with Billy Redden for the movie Deliverance?
Imp @ Are you saying because they would protect you too if the need arose?
No, no, no! If perps don't know who is, and who isn't armed they are restrained from a feeling of having free range of victims. I benefit from that restraint.
Like that Batman shooter. He eschewed theaters that allowed patrons to carry guns in. Even if no one had a weapon on them, just the possibility of it was a deterrent. The fact that some people might be armed saved lives in those theaters because he passed on to a zone 'safer' for him.
And I'm over that phase anyway once a friend worked with me to teach me how to safely handle firearms. It being a moot point anyway here in Crazifornia.
@Bay:
"And I'm over that phase anyway once a friend worked with me to teach me how to safely handle firearms..."
Thanks for an excellent clarification and congrats on the safety training too...Bravo. To Bad CA doesn't agree..it's getting very retrograde for self defense leaving the gangs alone while crippling good law abiding victims in it's wake.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be responsible for anyone else's safety because I carry...and yet knock on wood...I haven't had to decide that yet. I think I'd feel compelled to though if I saw a felony taking place.
BTW..FL just passed a new law that allows the use of threatening to use force to stop a crime or an attack on a person. Even so much as a warning shot will go without prosecution now. ( although they don't advise doing that or recommend it...) We've had cases were individuals drew their concealed weapons to show a perp they were armed which was enough to prevent an attack. Yet these people were sentenced to 20 years under the old law for doing so. People without any criminal history or any history of breaking the law.
So the older choice was....shoot to kill and no prosecution. So...it's stupid to give someone a CCW then arrest them if it's exposed? Either by accident or for as defensive posture? Idiotic it was.
@Bay:
An addendum..Trayvon would / might well be alive today if Zimmerman had used the new law to make the kid back off? Who knows though..I wasn't there to evaluate if Trayvon used any language or verbal challenge to Zimmerman in a threatening manner.
You're right, Imp. Treyvon might be alive today, but how many would that filthy thug have killed since that time? Treyvon was destined to be killed ... either by a police bullet, or as a result of a citizen stepping up.
Do I think Zimmerman was blameless? No, I don't. But Treyvon was asking for it. He was playing the knockout game on some fat cracker and he got capped. I have no sympathy for Treyvon or his parents; they raised him to end this way.
@Sam:
Yes...he did like to flash his gun. And he was seeking another. But "Raised"? No...momma abandoned him to poppa's GF who "raised" him. Every time this thug acted up...his bio "mother" kicked him up to dad...who lived with his GF in Sanford.
We do have plenty of Trayvons out there to see how he would have turned out.
Most likely prison or a chalk mark on a Miami street.
Wow, crime is higher in a dense metropolitan are.
Quite the sleuth, Sammy.
I’m sure you’re right Canardo ... what’s a few hundred rapes? To hell with those people. They probably had it coming anyway. Besides, it’s the cost of living in a city ... and there is nothing at all anyone can do about it.
Yeah, I think it is true: you really are a jerk.
"Duckys here said...
Interesting that the gun loons would go bonkers if there wee any restrictions on ownership but feel this is legal. Typical fringe right thought."
Ducky...is that a joke, tongue in cheek? or will you call it that when I help you realize how far off your comment is if you really MEANT it?
First, I know NO "fringe right thought" that says there should be no restrictions on owning a gun.
Please link if you do.
Second, "This" is for the protection of its citizens and IT IS WORKING. The point is, IT IS WORKING, whether you can bring yourself to read and digest and admit it.
As for SAM's remark about Boston (or any other large town), I think we all know that's no
'sleuthing'...except I thank him for going to the trouble of finding/posting those stats.
His point is very clearly, in association with my post and other comments here today, that perhaps allowing guns in more Bostonian homes just might bring the crime rate DOWN?
ya think? I'm hoping you can extrapolate?
@Z:
"perhaps allowing guns in more Bostonian homes just might bring the crime rate DOWN?"..
Nah...they've got a well embedded and historically shanty Irish - gang banger -mafia in Bean town for "protection". Once Run by James 'Whitey' Bulger. Whom Bostonians consider a folk hero today. They split their territories with The Patriarca crime family.
Has been there since the potato famine refugees set up shop there. Including the Kennedy's.
Ducky...you want to be treated right? Treat others then as you wish to be.
@Z. Ducks point, as I see it, is that we oppose government telling us to buy health insurance.
Why shouldn't we oppose it tellibflg us to by a gun?
Ed...I don't see any ACA mention or inference from Ducky, but maybe I'm looking at the wrong comments?
I don't think I'd personally REQUIRE every home to have a gun, like my article states, but the thought they CAN is refreshing and obviously is definitely working to scare criminals off.
But, I'm different from Ducky and much of the left in that I feel we're as important to keep alive as criminals are. Go figure :-)
Imp; actually, I think it might work in Boston...even those mafia thugs wouldn't be SO very confident of killing or robbing if they knew there's a really good chance the owner's armed.
Kennesaw, GA is a suburb of Atlanta in Cobb County just north of Marietta, GA. Marietta is the county seat of Cobb, County. Cobb County encompasses over 340 square miles with a population of over 688,000 in the 2010 census.
Kennesaw is on the northern edge of Cobb County, and is a nice place to live. The median income for Kennesaw in 2009 was over $59,000. That's about as middle class as you can get.
Most of the people I know who live in Kennesaw don't pay attention to the gun law. I don't believe the Kennesaw city council or police department even pretend to enforce the law.
I would be careful of ANY statistical correlation between guns and crime. If anything the crime level is a function of Kennesaw being a good place to live and raise a family, along with good law enforcement from the city and Cobb County police department.
Some of my friends in Kennesaw own guns, some don't. It's not a big thing.
Bob, thanks for that! Except, the article does show that there is some evidence that having the larger amount of guns there, and there apparently are, does seem to be acting at least as a deterrent.
Something's bringing the crime rate down; I'm not sure the city was ever a 'wild west, Chicago-type zone', was it? Meanwhile, the post also says the city's growing AND the criminality's going down.
I think that says something, don't you?
@Woodsterman "I think all criminals should be deported to Chicago."
Aren't they already doing that? Kind of like a penal colony run by penal colonists for penal colonists.
@CI:
"Ideally, those who desire not to defend themselves could be charged a fee for use of government services.."
That was tongue in cheek I'm guessing? Newark and Deadtroit are already broke.
@ Imp
There is no such thing as a broke government as long as they can extort money from saps like us ...
@Z: " Meanwhile, the post also says the city's growing AND the criminality's going down.
I think that says something, don't you?"
Understand that I am not denying that guns might have something to do with decreasing crime statistics. However, crime has been going down all over the nation (except Chicago and DC, I think).
However, just because crime is decreasing in a place where guns are encouraged does not necessarily mean the guns are the only reason.
I just don't take all statistics for what they are advertised as there are so many confounding variables in things like crime rates. Guess I am always skeptical about numbers because that's the way I am.
Well, Lions don't attack the zebra who they think has the best chance to get away. Or that they think might.
This is the subject. Predators vs Prey.
It's such a simple concept, eh?
Also, why are gun safety classes not mandatory for grade school, or even pre-school ?
Doesn't need to be complicated. Just pointing out that if "you find a gun, know that it can kill via a bullet coming out of it if you handle it."
What's so hard about that? Takes a lot less time that putting a condom on a cucumber even.
Well, it doesn't jive with the left's agenda to disarm everyone does it.
As far as "Mandating that everyone own a firearm".
Hey, just make a TRUE public statement that no policeman has Ever stopped a crime in progress (or 0.0000001%) so if you want to live, or protect yourself from rape or other abuse, then you should think seriously about obtaining a firearm and learning how to use and care for it
What's so hard about that eh? Nada.
Edle Ursache Führung ist ein Hütchenspiel, Hetze die unteren Herde Mitglieder der Unreife oder niedrigen IQ, mit einer etwas für nichts, können Sie einige der Reichtümer jemand anderen schuldig sind, weil Sie Ihnen, Versuchung.
Heute ist dieses Phänomen wird als "Black soziale Gerechtigkeit" durch die Negros und ist eine der Säulen, auf denen die weiße liberale Ideologie der "Bürde des weißen Mannes" wird gebaut. Es heißt Sozialismus, die wie Islam, zerstört erste höhere Kultur des freien Unternehmertums eines wohlhabenden weißen Mannes und den Reichtum macht es wie die Weißen ihr Glück zu verfolgen, nur um dann säen, pflegen und ernten Ruin und Stagnation.
Es ist die Geburtsbett der Tyrannei, Armut und Elend für den Pöbel Massen und gleichzeitig die Geburt Bett des Highlife von Macht, Ruhm und Reichtum für die freien Hirten.
Da die Erde sich dreht, und weiß liberalen Ideologie an der Macht bleibt, ist unser Genpool weiß / Rennen Schicksal geschoben immer näher an die vom Aussterben bedroht.
Der einzige Führer, etwas für sein Volk tun, ist derjenige, der es für die Kultur seines Volkes tut.
@kid : "no policeman has Ever stopped a crime in progress"
Oh, yeah? How about Dirty Harry? "Go ahead, make my day."
Now I gotta find a Dirty Harry on Netflix, or something.
Odie...OR WASHINGTON, DC! :-)
Anonymous; you shouldn't rely on computer translators. It's completely illegible, but good try.
BAN ALL GUNS = NOBODY GETS SHOT!
SO SIMPLE ONLY TEABAGGIN INBREEDS CANT FIGURE IT OUT!
'Ban all guns = nobody gets shot.' Yah. Including perps breaking into little widows' houses to commit mayhem and murder.
How many times do we have to take simpletons who parrot this meme by the hand and explain to them the facts of life? What if Sharon Tate had had a gun ... or the man friend who so valiantly tried to defend her on that horrible night?
NOBODY GOT SHOT, EVERYBODY HAD FREE HEALTH CARE, AND THERE WAS NO UNEMPLOYMENT IN THE GREAT SOVIET UNION! THATS WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU BAN GUNS AND TEEBAGGERS.
COMMUNISM - IT WORKS!!!!!
libmann...when you 'figure out' how to get guns from criminals and cartels, alert the CIA and FBI, okay?
That'll be a BIG help.
GET IT? :-)
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