Thursday, April 14, 2011

Sex and Dating Services

HERE  (don't bother to click, I only linked for attribution reasons, the whole article's below in italics) a fascinating scenario and one I'd like your input on;

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A California woman is suing a popular Internet dating site, saying she was sexually assaulted by a man she met on Match.com.  Attorney Mark L. Webb says he filed the Los Angeles Superior Court civil lawsuit on Wednesday on behalf of an entertainment executive identified only as Jane Doe.
The suit demands that Match.com screen its members for sexual predators. Webb says he’s asking for a temporary injunction barring the site from signing up more members until his client’s demands are met.
Webb says the woman met the alleged assailant last year at the Urth Cafe in West Hollywood. After a second date, the attorney says the man followed her home and attacked her.

Should the internet dating site be the one responsible?   Or should she?  What do you think?  Is it fair to shut the site down until they start to screen every member for predators?  And, are all predators or rapists registered? And how will the court know she wasn't going for the sex but something made her mad and she's taking it on on the site instead of the man?  No talk about taking him to court?

I wondered what you think.

z

56 comments:

beamish said...

The dating site is not responsible any more than Ebay is responsible if you order a cell phone battery from someone there and you wind up with one that won't hold a charge.

[happened to me]

I notice that the story doesn't say any charges against the man have been filed. She wants money, not justice.

Which is probably why she sold herself online in the first place.

What'd she expect, Prince Charming is surfing dating sites waiting for the "right girl?"

Layla Elizabeth Gonzalez said...

Actually Z, Match.com has a great reputation and this is the first time in it's history I have heard of any ill will or mishaps. I could be wrong, but I am just speaking to what I currently know.

As for suing them, no, this may be hard since he was vetted out. If he was a predature, a true predature he would have showed up in their criminal background check. The law enforcement does not forget to put these vital statistics in a persons record, violent, abusive, predatorial, etc.

Anything can happen. A good lawyer can twist the most innocent of cases and win on a technicality. But you asked should she sue Match.com.

I say no. But if she is a gold digger, she wants to be compensated beyond this guy getting jail time. It is sad, but that is the way of the world these days.

I would not sue them as I do not see what they did wrong. Now if they did not run a crimial background check then yes, sue them. If they did, but law enforcement failed to put the information in I would go after them, not Match.com. There are so many "if's" to this. It is almost as bad as Clinton's "IS"-"IS." ;-)

Leticia said...

I blame the rapist. Not the woman or the site. To some degree, you might fault the website, but if the man was not a known rapist how could they possibly know? People lie on applications. Which is probably what that scum bag did. For all we know, it was his first offense and had a clean record prior to the assault. Somehow this guy passed their screening test and background check.

Not all systems are perfect.

Jane Doe was smart, she met him at a public place, and he probably behaved like a perfect gentlemen, which is why she agreed to second a date.

Most predators behave like everyone else until they have their victims where they want them. The rape was premeditated. He followed her home, with or without her knowledge, we may never know.

I would like to know if there are separate charges being brought against the guy and was omitted in this article?

I don't blame the website. People date at their own risk. There is never a guarantee, even for those who don't use a dating service.

Jen said...

I notice that the story doesn't say any charges against the man have been filed. She wants money, not justice.

Which is probably why she sold herself online in the first place.

What'd she expect, Prince Charming is surfing dating sites waiting for the "right girl?"
----------

This is bullshit.
You're blaming the victim for what the criminal did?
That is SO old and pathetic.
Maybe she's suing the site because she wants to stop it from happening to other people. (It IS entirely possible that she cares about the well-being of others.)

Did the article say she was suing for money, or for the site to stop allowing people to register until screened further? I think the latter.

She SOLD HERSELF online?

That's beyond disgusting and offensive. Again, you attack the victim.

Z, I blame the perp. He committed a crime. He needs to be tracked down and beaten. I can't imagine why she didn't call the cops on the jerk.

The website would probably make even more money and be more successful if they could boast that they perform the MOST thorough screening process of any online dating service on the market....so, why NOT?

Ducky's here said...

Another great piece of reporting. Was the man a registered offender?

If not, there ain't much that can be done. It's reasonable to ask what expectations of due diligence would be in place here but I think someone's looking for a pay day.

Common Sense said...

There are two sides to every story, then there's the middle.

beamish said...

This is bullshit.
You're blaming the victim for what the criminal did?


What criminal?

All we know from the article is that the woman is suing the dating site, for damages. She's blaming them for what allegedly happened to her.

She SOLD HERSELF online?

That's beyond disgusting and offensive.


Ain't it though? I wonder if she'll do it again.

Pris said...

For all we know nothing happened. We know only what the woman says.
It seems to me, first criminal charges are brought, there's a trial, and then if the man did rape her, which may or may not be what happened, and is found guilty, I'd be satisfied with that if I were her.

It's interesting to me, the woman and her attorney, say assaulted, attacked, not raped.

Different people may consider assault to mean different things.

In any case, I don't see how a dating service can investigate every person who applies for participation in their service.

They probably can only screen the applicants up to a point.

Besides, if she didn't call the police, I question her veracity.

beamish said...

All I'm saying is "of course it's the [alleged] perp's fault [if the woman's version is true]."

But filing a lawsuit against the dating site, and taking the trial into the press are two huge signs that her version of the events isn't true.

gramma2many said...

It could be true. There are predators every where. That being said, I wonder at someone who goes shopping online for a date. To me it is as dangerous as picking up a "date" at a bar.

Chuck said...

I'm with Leticia, blame the rapist. The site cannot be held liable for this unless somehow it knowingly allowed a rapist to connect with her. As to the woman, I have a hard time blaming her. Maybe a dating site isn't the best or safest place to meet someone but it doesn't mean she deserved to be raped.

beamish said...

7. Your Interactions with Other Members. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other Members. You understand that Match.com does not in any way screen its Members, nor does Match.com inquire into the backgrounds of its Members or attempt to verify the statements of its Members. Match.com makes no representations or warranties as to the conduct of Members or their compatibility with any current or future Members. In no event shall Match.com be liable for any damages whatsoever, whether direct, indirect, general, special, compensatory, consequential, and/or incidental, arising out of or relating to the conduct of you or anyone else in connection with the use of the Service, including without limitation, bodily injury, emotional distress, and/or any other damages resulting from communications or meetings with other registered users of this Service or persons you meet through this Service. You agree to take reasonable precautions in all interactions with other Members of the Service, particularly if you decide to meet offline or in person. In addition, you agree to review Match.com's Dating Safety Tips prior to using the Service. You understand that Match.com makes no guarantees, either express or implied, regarding your ultimate compatibility with individuals you meet through the Service. You should not provide your financial information (for example, your credit card or bank account information) to other Members. - from match.com's Terms of Use

The above is from the Terms of Use that EVERYONE that creates an account at match.com MUST indicate that they've read and understand and agree to.

This woman is going to have her case laughed out of court, if a judge even bothers to waste time with it.

That's sad. *If* she actually is a victim of a sexual assault, she failed to take the proper actions [get law enforcement involved immediately] and so now she does not even have anything to take to the cops that they could use to compel match.com to assist in their investigation.

By not taking the intelligent route, instead of the Holy Avenger route, she's putting match.com on the defensive [drying up any cooperation they might have given to her or the authorities] and setting herself up for a possible countersuit.

Which is sad, if she actually is a victim of an alleged sexual assault that for some reason went unreported to the police.

But with agreeing to Terms of Service like that about, she probably victimized herself more than anything.

Read the fine print, people. Don't sign anything you haven't read or don't understand or don't agree to.

Opus #6 said...

Next time she'll put an NRA sticker on her car and ask his advice about hollow tipped versus safety slugs.

Scotty said...

I just proves, even more, that we have too many lawyers in this country!

WomanHonorThyself said...

its just way too dangerous for women Z..what a tragedy really..............Have a nice weekend~!

beamish said...

It's the age old mystery of defining a prepositional phrase in grammar without using a prepositional phrase in the definition. [ack, even my statement above contains three prepositional phrases]

"It's bad grammar to end a sentence with a prepositional phrase." [Dangit!]

There's no way she or any lawyer can construe her agreement and consent to match.com's Terms of Use to hold match.com liable for anything that can happen when a match.com meets with any other match.com member.

Had she gone to the police and reported that se had been assualted by a date she met off match.com, a court warrant might have been obtained to gather as much info on the alleged perp from their records [from credit card billing address data, the IP addresses he logs on to his account there from, other users he's dated if any, etc.] Even if the guy signed up with completely false info, there's enough footprints there to track him down. Heck, even his photo there might contain EXIF tags with GPS data encoded if he took the selfie with a cell phone. They'd know his whereabouts to the foot and inches. [Which is scary if you think about it, just download a pic, view the EXIF metadata and boom you've got the GPS coordinates of where that hottie or hunk online took their bedroom mirror photo - man I watch too much NCIS...]

But, she didn't. She has no police report, and she consented to a TOS agreement not to hold match.com liable.

She's got nothing but a sob story, that no one is obligated to believe.

Trying to define a prepositional phrase without using one. [ack!]

Impertinent said...

Damn Mr. Beamer.....I thought I was Type "A"!!!!

Jeeez....you even know about EXIF tags???

Not too many do....my hats off to ya. When I get a picture....I go through that data myself. And as far as IP's go.....I'm pretty good at using that info too.

So...backatcha fellow... propeller head.

You can take your green visor off for now.

beamish said...

I'm scared about how much I don't know about, hehehe.

Actually, I'm cursed with a memory that won't quit.

[I used to think Einstein was a moron until I did enough drugs to start to envy him, LOL]

Anywho, I read something and off I go exploring it to the depths. I found out about EXIF tags looking into steganography [I'm a geek when it comes to codebreaking and such] and what I discovered gave me a healthy respect of the unseen and mystical.

Yeah. I'm a propellerhead. A Dorque.

Z said...

My GOSH! I don't think anybody's talking about NOT BLAMING A RAPIST!! Ya, he should be blamed (and arrested and imprisoned).

Let me put it this way:

IF SHE'S OUT THERE DATING, SHOULD SHE ASK FOR PAPERS FROM EACH DATE SHOWING HE'S NOT GOT A PAST OF MOLESTATION OR SOMETHING?

My point is how can the dating service be held responsible when she couldn't know that information on her own? How could she know any guy she meets through a friend, even, isn't a rapist?

I blame her if she's going for MONEY, that's all. Other than that, it also mentions in the article that she's suing to protect others. I just don't see why a dating service can know about a guy's past... do young women do checks on every date on their own?

your turn :-)

Impertinent said...

"I'm scared about how much I don't know about, hehehe."


For a number of years in my varied career goals....I worked with the ultimate geek, propeller head, genius, internet, maniacal, PC expert, Indian that the world has ever seen. In my world that is.

Mr. Beamish...this guy from Mobassa scared me. That's how prescient and masterful this man was.

I learned lots form him...LOTS.

Code? No problem. IP tracing...no problema.

Win2K, Unix, XP....

Now...I've relaxed a bit. I've been a Mac head for 4 years now. I turn on a PC when I want to remember why I went to Mac. I know, I know....it's all "hype".

Except when my wife turns on the PC that I've designated for her exclusive use....then it's..."how come I can't....how come this won't....why is it doing this"..and on and on.

Believe me Beamer.....I ain't the "hip" guy in the PC/Mac ad wars....I'm between.

But...I will never....never go back to a PC....Win7....yea....it's cool allright....but it's too GD complicated.

I've "dumbed down", delighted so... and just now....love computing. Only with a Mac. I can spend a day on my Mac.....whereas before.....I wanted to kill my PC after a couple hours.

Imp

Impertinent said...

"IF SHE'S OUT THERE DATING, SHOULD SHE ASK FOR PAPERS FROM EACH DATE SHOWING HE'S NOT GOT A PAST OF MOLESTATION OR SOMETHING?"

Ms. Z.

It wasn't too long ago ( maybe in the late 80's ) that a guy like Stossel advised men to have a card made up to give to women that a single man met ....errrrr, socially. Ya know...in a bar or a club. That the woman had to agree to before he agreed to.....leave the bar with her.

Kind of like a TOS from the guy that released him from frivilous....after sex guilt trips that arose from the woman. As well as after sex lawsuits that would accuse him of date rape and so on.

Your turn...

beamish said...

Complete opposite here, Impy.

I like Macs, don't get me wrong. They're very useful for things they're designed to do... graphic design, music production, word processing, holding doors open...

But when I want a computer to actually DO something, give me a PC.

;)

beamish said...

Impy...

enjoy

:P

Impertinent said...

"But when I want a computer to actually DO something, give me a PC."...


LMAO...OK...ok....tell me ONE thing...just ONE...that a MAC cannot do over a PC. Just one.

Especially a 32/64 bit, Intel Mac with 64gigs of ram.....got that in a PC? How about "hot swap"...how about 8 TB's of storage????

A "game"...word??? What?

Name One....

Then I'll quit.

And remember...I'm using Safari. Not Firefox...Not Mozilla...not Explorer....just Safari.

Game on....Enlighten me Beamer.

Impertinent said...

"Impy...

enjoy"....



I did....I laughed my ass off. It's the ONION.....come on...seriously.

No need to get snotty...I'm sure I can find an opposite too. But it was funny.

Imp

Z said...

this is exactly why I blog.

I love reading Imp and Beamish going back and forth and enjoying it....xxx

Elmers Brother said...

oy it's a geek convention...won't be able to squeeze a nerd in edgewise.

Impertinent said...

"I love reading Imp and Beamish going back and forth and enjoying it....xxx..."


Awwww....Ms. Z...I didn't wnat to change the topic...but Mr. Beamish is such a snob( LMAO ). I just had to challenge his biased ass.

I already told him I thought that Win7 was as cool as can be...but...BUT...IF YOU HAVE XP.....YOU CAN'T EVEN UPGRADE!!!!

BEAMER....what kinda horseshit is that? I have to upgrade to VISTA...which is known the world over as the most Fooked up OS the world has ever seen...from an OS ( XP ) that was as cool and stable as NT ever was...I loved NT.

Stable....simple...a pain in the ass to configure...but...stable.

Matter of fact...every OS that Windows has introduced from NT on...has been an NT underpinnings.

You wanted to have a pissing contest...OK..I luv ya Bemaer. But from Tiger, to Leopard to Snow Leopard...has been an advancement bar none.

For a meagerly $39 I upgraded an Intel Tiger to a full fleged Snow Leopard...the latest coolest OS...in under an hour!! Under an HOUR.!!!!

I've spent 8 damn hours going from NT...to XP.

I want to trash a program??? I dump and drag it into the trash bin.

Does Windows have it better?

Elmers Brother said...

the next conversation will be about how many episodes of Star Trek included tribbles.

Fasten your selt belt everyone.

beamish said...

Impy,

You know why Crapples don't run viruses right? Because they don't run anything else. :P

Well, that's not completely true. You can ditch Mac OS and run UNIX or Windows XP for Mac on them if you want to actually use applications not published by Crapple. But at that point, you're better off just getting a real computer and going with a PC.

I like the freedom of PCs. I can build my own from scratch. Nobody builds an Apple computer for themselves. They buy what they want from a box, and if they want to upgrade it, they take it back to the Crapple store and get someone to put more Crapple parts in it.

Especially a 32/64 bit, Intel Mac with 64gigs of ram.....got that in a PC? How about "hot swap"...how about 8 TB's of storage????

If my PC had that much muscle in it, it'd outperform any Mac with the same inside. Why? You can't tweak a Crapple. It has two settings - factory and off. There's little to no customization of the proprietary operating system in an Apple. Not so with a PC.

Paraphrasing the best linme in that Onion vid, becasue it's hilariously true -

"It remains to be seen if the Mac will catch on in the business world, where people use computers to do actual work, and not just dicking around."

:P

Impertinent said...

Elbro.....do you have something to add?

Or are you just going to be the sideshow referee?

All due respect to a well respected commenter.

See....I love these back n forths...So chime in bud.
Imp

Elmers Brother said...

all right now we need the cake with the naked girl in it...who brought the party favors?

it's gonna be like a legionairre convention up in here now

Elmers Brother said...

I'm just having fun...

I'm a technician...SOOO I go to these conventions all the time...

don't mind me I'm the bad entertainment.

beamish said...

the next conversation will be about how many episodes of Star Trek included tribbles.

Trick question. Technically four, if you count the Saturday morning cartoon.

One was a original series episode, the second was a Deep Space Nine episdoe where they time travelled back to the original series episode and used CGI to have the DS9 crew running around the original Enterprise. They also appeared in the Enterprise prequel show and three movies... Star Trek 2, Generations, and the recent Star Trek reboot.

Fasten your selt belt everyone.

D'oh!

I wasn't suppose to reveal just how nerdy I am.

beamish said...

Oops, Star Trek 3. Star Trek 2 was the Wrath of Khan...

D'oh!

Impertinent said...

"Nobody builds an Apple computer for themselves"

Therein lies the problem. You can't buy a Dell, Gateway, HP, Asus, Toshiba that will work the way you want it to. You'll always have to ..."upgrade....set a firewall...install AVG, Norton, Symantec....

You're constantly having POP Up balloons....install this....update this...."you're computer is open to viruses....update this, update that...I've found new hardware...install the drivers... go here...go there...find this location to install.."Files not found"....

And on and on.

Why should a "PC" ( personal computer ) be a goddamn pest everytime you start it?

Because YOU know what to do?

Beamer.....this damn PC...PC it is...is on 24/7 for months at a time. I put it to "sleep"...it wakes up when I want it to.

Every damn day...my wifes office personnel call me to log in remotely...to "fix" their PC's. And I do this from this Mac.

"But when I want a computer to actually DO something, give me a PC."

People want to have a friendly computer....to me...from a Win PC to a Mac / Unix environment has been a challenge to transition...but I'll never go back.

I have right now...2 inches to the left of my Mac....an XP / PC. I upgraded it to 4gbs of Ram. Huge hard drives...I open a 750mb photo file...and it says to me..."OUT OF RAM" cannot continue.

POOF...done...over.

This Mac with 16gigs of Ram...never...never.....quits...even if it tells me it only has 250mb of raam left.

So...again....give me something a windows machine will do...that the Mac can't?

Impertinent said...

Know what????


Adios.

beamish said...

Sounds like something's wrong with the motherboard in your PC, Impy. Not reading the RAM you have in there.

But, if you've got Norton's, Symantec, etc. all installed, they're conflicting with each other. You only need one firewall program and anti-virus program.

Sounds like you need to uninstall the unnecessary stuff, run a registry cleaner, and update the system files, especially if you've left the PC off for a long time.

When you connect to the 'net, Windows will want you to update to the latest security patches. That's normal, and you can run them in the background.

It also sounds like you've got some of those BS spyware and adware trojans on your PC.

Download malwarebytes from malwarebytes.com for free, and then reboot your PC in safe mode.

You should always run your anti-virus progs in safe mode, so you can catch the naughty ones that actually attack the boot sector and startup files.

Nothing's wrong with your PC that can't be fixed for free, with a little patience and taking the right steps.

Think of it like a car. They need oil changes. Things like that. Doing routine maintenance on a PC is the same thing.

beamish said...

er, rebbot in safe mode, then run malwarebytes.

Elmers Brother said...

I knew it was 4 only because two of my coworkers had the conversation and asked me to look it up on wikipedia.

Elmers Brother said...

It all started at a geek meeting where two of my coworkers were sitting next to each other. The one says to the other, you know what you're scrunched up napkin looks like? The other says, Yeah a tribble. First guy says, My thinking exactly, you DO know how many episodes featured tribbles don't you?

To wit a heated discussion broke out. I tried to mediate, explaining that the nerd level was rising to dangerous levels. To prevent a complete dork meltdown I looked it up on my cell phone. (don't worry, the irony does not escape me). When I told them four episodes the discussion ended and we had prevented WWIII.

beamish said...

I didn't mean to get Impy upset about his Mac. I just know I could take what he's got in his PC and make it run better than his Mac that has more RAM.

Yeah, I'm a leet when it comes to PCs, but I always tell people that if I can learn the tricks, anyone else can, and probably better. {I'm a self-deprecator by nature]

beamish said...

[I cheated and outsourced the Star Trek question to Wikipedia also :P]

Z said...

Imp seemed to have opinions based on his own experience.

Why's this happen so often? :-(

Elmers Brother said...

You think he was really offended Z?

Impertinent said...

"You think he was really offended Z?"


Nah. Just tired of running the Mac vs PC cool guy and fat dope commercial.

Beamer...thanks for the tips too. All valid and reliable. But...I've been there and done all that.

Elmers Brother said...

I got a bad virus and tried all that stuff last mont. Finally had to reformat and reload.

Impertinent said...

Elbro....Norton Ghost is a great tool, I have to admit, for a PC.

On a Mac there's "Super Duper & Carbon Copy".

Just use the rescue CD to reboot in PC then select the restore location ( hopefully you have more than one HD for backup ) and you're back up in under an hour.

Elmers Brother said...

I had a backup drive

Z said...

I know Imp too well to think he got offended..he was, as he said, just DONE.
How much can you say when one person has different experiences than the other? :-)

Leticia said...

Thanks, Chuck! I am staying out of the rest of the argument here, whew!

Ducky's here said...

If you want Windows just get a copy and run it under Boot Camp on your Mac.

Simple

Impertinent said...

"Boot Camp on your Mac."

Or Parallels...

And I have it on my Mac Laptop. But I never need to use it!

Plus I have a virtual PC / XP on the desktop Mac. To run the old windows cardfile, and an old, old copy of Quicken which needs Dos!

Thanks Duck...

beamish said...

How come there's no Mac OS for PC?

:P

[couldn't resist]

Impertinent said...

"How come there's no Mac OS for PC"


Cause you can't rip them off with illegal copies? Mac OS will install on any intel platform. So long as you pay for the OS.

Poking in the eye / off

Starter Girlfriend said...

That is crazy, the woman is absolutely responsible for herself and should not get herself into such situations. I understand sometimes you meet people you don't think would do this to you, but there is no one to blame except the culprit!

I have a whole blog dedicated to online dating and crazy things that can happen. Written by myself and 2 friends. Check it out!

dating-ish.blogspot.com