Saturday, April 2, 2011

Sports and Money...............

SPORTS PEOPLE GET TOO MUCH MONEY and don't know how to divide it up?!.  Only people who cure cancer should get more than 10 million a year....guys who throw or kick a ball around shouldn't.   Thus spake Z.

Here's my thinking:   We set caps on players' income.  They can hassle with lawyers and contracts over whether they get 1 million or 10 million a year (which I think is still too much, but...) and then that's it.   But, then the owners would get all that extra money, you ask?  NO.  They have caps, too.  After that, the money goes to CHARITY.   Let them hassle about which charity instead of how they can all have a piece of the NINE BILLION DOLLARS at stake in my linked article. Yes, I'm a free market Conservative and think we all should financially do as well as we can but when you hear numbers like those in the article, one begins to think.........Earn all you want!  But..........maybe divide it up with those much less fortunate?

What do you think? 

z

48 comments:

Always On Watch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Always On Watch said...

We set caps on players' income.

Beware the slippery slope, particularly if "we" means the government.

Sure, I think that athletes are overpaid.

But those not making as much income as I probably think that I'm making too much too -- never mind that this household's taxable income for 2010 was just over $10,000.

Always On Watch said...

My point: making "too much money" can be relative.

FrogBurger said...

Z, that's "socialist" thinking. Why not cap CEOs too?
If a player makes a club generate revenue, he doesn't make too much money.

beamish said...

Well, I think it's outrageous for baseball players to make millions, given that they're basically being paid to stand around in fair to sunny weather if they're even "playing" outside. That is, of course, while most of one team isn't sitting down.

Baseball's bubble gum and tobacco chewing steroid junkies have such a minimal risk of career-ending injury that you've got to go to other non-sports like golf and catch-and-release stream fishing to find a comparison.

Except, you're unlikely to see non-American citizens in golf and stream fishing pulling down major grip to bore crowds they don't even bother with cheerleaders to fire up.

Meanwhile, kids in American schools waste away from little league to college hoping to break into pro baseball against people from the third world.

Baseball - America's past time - watching Latin Americans on work visas stand and sit around for a few gruellingly boring hours everyday for eight months out of the year, pulling down the average fan's weekly paycheck every time the ball is pitched - in new taxpayer-subsidized near empty stadia built atop the ground of demolished stadia that the old bonds haven't even been paid off on.

You don't get any of that with a real sport like professional football. Every time the ball is snapped, there's a good chance someone's going to die or be maimed for life. You can't put a price on that.

Rain, sleet, snow, the gloom of night, it's not just the mailman putting his life on the life every time he puts on a uniform. Football is the closest thing to entertaining kinetic military action the world of sports can offer outside of international warfare itself.

And this extends off the field. Football sells both merchandising and brand loyalty, products with enduring value - and profit - long after the players have destroyed their bodies beyond being able to contribute to the field of competition itself. And the money stays in America.

The fact is football team owners are making far more than the relatively little they're paying the players that kill themselves driving the business that sells the t-shirts.

We need more professional football teams, and longer seasons.

Ducky's here said...

I think right wingers were wailing holy hell when the idea of capping Wall Street bonuses and salaries was presented.

Of course Wall Street does genuine damage to America so it only makes sense that they skate.

Sports is a genuine supply and demand situation and, of course, the right in their complete lack of consistency sees this as the one area were it is okay to tamper with their blessed market.

The chairman of Goldman Sachs robs us and makes hundreds of millions. Dustin Pedroia goes to work and works hard every day, brings me a little pleasure and well, he's not the first place I'd cut.

beamish said...

Baseball could be improved if they'd allow both teams on the field at the same time. Nine on nine.

Everyone on the pitching team would wear catchers masks and pads, everyone on the hitting team would be on the field with baseball bats.

And since baseball is only slightly more gay than ballet dramas, they ought not be upset with the constant costume changes.

And so, one team in armor takes the field to pitch, and they're pitching the ball to a batter that if he hits, the other batters on the field use their bats to try to stop the armored pitching team from catching the ball and throwing it to base to try to out a runner. If a batter in the out field manages to knock a throw to 1st, 2nd or third base or home plate into the stands, that batter scores a home run. The ball would be constantly in play.

It would be illegal to hit the pitching team in the heads with the bats, but checking them in the ribs with the bat would be acceptable.

And then after three outs, they change sides.

It'd be cool.

Like hockey.

FrogBurger said...

Sports is a genuine supply and demand situation and, of course, the right in their complete lack of consistency sees this as the one area were it is okay to tamper with their blessed market.

You're such a moron making generalization like this.
I could generalize too with the same logic and use your example. Using you as the basis of my logic,I could make the following statement:

"Sports is a genuine supply and demand situation and, of course, the left in their complete lack of consistency sees this as the one area were it is okay to bless market principles."

Sports is full of cheaters Ducky. Especially baseball with steroids.

You truly are a sophist. So easy to deconstruct.

Make it harder for me, please. I'm getting a little bored to fight with such low level of intellect.

FrogBurger said...

The chairman of Goldman Sachs robs us and makes hundreds of millions. Dustin Pedroia goes to work and works hard every day, brings me a little pleasure and well, he's not the first place I'd cut.

Loving that statement.

Like most leftist, it's only when you are comfy, pleased, entertained that the situation is ok.

You love baseball, therefore overpaid fatty players and market principles in this case are ok, even though class warfare truly applies here if I want to use it.

It shows what a phony you are. You have no principles, no intellectual foundations.

You also have no courage. The courage to live according to the principles you love so much. The courage to be logical with yourself.

Because deep down you know it can't work. Can't work with a good American way of life you enjoy so much.

It proves my point again. Selfishness rules human nature. As a selfish individual, you love market principles in baseball b/c you're entertained. But as a selfish individual who is discontent because he can't be someone making 100 million dollars, you want to impose marxist ideals to society.

Yes Ducky, you are a PHONY. A lame duck.

By yourself You represent the left. That's why everything you guys touch turns to shit.

FrogBurger said...

With Ducky's logic, I think I've come up with a new definition of Leftism.

Leftism is the theorization of ideals aiming at turning mediocrity into a comfortable lifestyle.

Hence market principles are ok if it makes my life more enjoyable through baseball.

Therefore Ducky is logical with himself.

I apologize for missing this subtlety.

Scotty said...

I would never consider thwarting the efforts of anyone wanting to get as much money as they can for what they do. If the money wasn’t there, they wouldn’t be paid, what appear to be, obscene amounts of money. Sports careers are fleeting at best. So get what you can. I think if everybody is being honest, we would do the same.

Where I have a problem is a team owner extorting money from the locales they reside in.

I spent the majority of my life living not too far from Buffalo, NY.

I watched, when the owners of the Buffalo Bills decided they needed a new stadium, extort money from the taxpayers for the new stadium with threats that they would move the team if their demands were not met. And of course the city fathers caved.

Indeed, having a stadium with a team like the Buffalo Bills brings in a lot of revenue. Who can fault them I suppose. If it would have been me? I would have said, c-ya! Don’t let the door hit ya on the way out!!

Z said...

Ducky! Thank you SO SO MUCH. This idea is only my suggestion (nobody here agrees with me) so I'm honored you'd call ME 'the right'...it's quite a burden but a distinct honor. You said "Sports is a genuine supply and demand situation and, of course, the right in their complete lack of consistency sees this as the one area were it is okay to tamper with their blessed market."

Yup, that's ME :-)
But, I think there's nothing blessed about any market, trust me.

Okay, y'all...I think this goes back to my hypothesis (http://gollygeeez.blogspot.com/2009/01/free-market-and-faithread-it-through.htm)that's been backed by a book I blogged on recently (http://gollygeeez.blogspot.com/2011/02/money-greed-and-god.html) about how capitalism needs goodness/God to survive. It should be of these sports players' hearts and desires to give what they don't need, not for us to force them to.
I agree with that totally.

And, of course, many DO amazing things for charity with their money. They can do far, far FAR more. But, I won't MAKE them :-)

Thanks for your input, everybody!

Sincerely,
The RIGHT :-)

Ducky's here said...

Why just athletes, z? Why not a no talent nothings like Justin Bieber, Julia Roberts or Sarah Palin? At least Adrian Gonzalez can hit a curve ball.

You are in essence asking for a progressive ax on sports but everything else goes free.

In this case the owners are asking the players to take on serious injury risk for nothing. Now I don't much mind if football disappears for a season but the players have a legitimate beef here.

Z said...

Ducky, please read the comments then respond.
Thanks SO much.

beamish said...

Okay, y'all...I think this goes back to my hypothesis (http://gollygeeez.blogspot.com/2009/01/free-market-and-faithread-it-through.htm)that's been backed by a book I blogged on recently (http://gollygeeez.blogspot.com/2011/02/money-greed-and-god.html) about how capitalism needs goodness/God to survive. It should be of these sports players' hearts and desires to give what they don't need, not for us to force them to.
I agree with that totally.


Despite media appearances, most NFL players are not glorified street thugs burning away their money on lawyers to get themselves out of drug, violence and murder raps.

Take Kurt Warner, for instance. Outspoken Christian, thankful for his successes (Super Bowl champion quarterback, and holder of many quarterback records we'll likely never see broken). Even after leaving the Rams and St. Louis, and even after retiring from the NFL, he runs a charity helping the needy and homeless to have winter coats, and still gives back to the St. Louis community despite his not being here in many years.

For every thug you see in the NFL, there's ten or more quietly doing the right thing.

Z said...

Beamish, then my hypothesis is right! We know there are great stories like the one you relate but it's nice to hear details.

So, how do you feel about BASEBALL? :-)

beamish said...

So, how do you feel about BASEBALL? :-)

I feel that baseball encapsulates an argument in its eight months of a year's worth of annual monopolizing of televising empty stadia that there's no need for the government to fund art that only appeals to gay people. ;)

Pris said...

Pay should be based on a player's value to the team. It's called merit pay. No caps. A free market is a free market.

Yes they make a lot of money, and if they made less, the rest of us wouldn't have more. So, what's the beef?

If say, a Sandy Koufax, Fernando Valenzuela, Kershaw vs Lincecum, or Manny Ramirez fill the stands and bring more fans to the games, then they earn more money, and they should. Btw, I'm talking baseball here, for those who aren't fans. Just as an example.

Capping anyone's pay or salary because it makes folks feel better, IMO, is not a reason to do it. In a free society, we get what we earn.

If the pot is big, then the payout is big.

Ducky's right(choke). It's based on supply and demand, and I'll add one more, results.

Why should Tom Cruise, or Julia Roberts make twenty million a picture? Because they sell movies to millions of people. They bring in the audiences. It's the same thing as sports, they put out a successful product.

To my mind, whether we always like it or not, what benefits a free market, benefits everyone in the long run. We can't pick and choose according to our likes and dislikes if we are to be a free people.

Pris said...

Beamish, your obsession with baseball, a sport you despise, amazes me.

I'm not a football fan, but football's ok with me. The answer's simple. I don't watch it.

Try it sometime m'dear, it'll keep your blood pressure down to a normal range. (tee hee)

Dan said...

What we need, Z, to bring sports pay back in line with reality is ballgame insurance that insures that every person who feels he has to go to a ball game has employee or tax payer paid for insurance to allow him to go to the game for a pittance of what it cost to pay the players and build the stadiums. I can almost guarantee that within a decade the problem will be fixed. Just a thought.

beamish said...

Beamish, your obsession with baseball, a sport you despise, amazes me.

I'm not a football fan, but football's ok with me. The answer's simple. I don't watch it.


I have to practically turn my TV off during baseball season for that.

If a game's not on, there's a report about last night's game or a preview of today's or tomorrow's game. Here's the Cards in their near-empty stadium. Here's the Cards in someone else's near-empty stadium.

Maybe it's a St. Louis thing. I'm not originally from here, so I never "got" the obsession with the game. I'm rather atypical of native St. Louisans, in that I hate a thing they love more than their mothers, their dogs, and Jesus Himself.

So for me, by the time August NFL pre-season starts, I'm like "get all that damned baseball crap off the TV already."

beamish said...

Maybe I'd warm up to baseball if they had TV blackout rules like the NFL does. If the home team doesn't sell enough attendance tickets, nobody in the home team's city can watch the game on local TV.

That'd reduce baseball coverage on TV nationally by at least 99.9999838388981% (rounded up)

Z said...

Beamish, there isn't an ALMOST EMPTY Dodgers stadium here, I can tell you.......it's overflowing full every game, from what I hear...
you'll have a hard time finding an Anglo face in the midst, too, from what I hear these days....CHOCK FULL.

Pris, you "Yes they make a lot of money, and if they made less, the rest of us wouldn't have more. So, what's the beef?"

No beef here but the poor might have more if they gave the rest to charity...I'd be happy for that.
I am enjoying the discussion over the concept and still feel that nobody's worth millions of dollars no matter what...My post was about sports, not movie starts, but I'll include them here, too.........WAAAY overpaid for what they do I don't care HOW much $$ they bring in. NO JOB is worth gazillions of dollars a year...NONE.

I don't admire sports figures more than business people or doctors, etc...something's out of whack, but because we feel like we do, and it IS America to encourage everyone to make as much as they can, we can't put on any caps....
but I sure do like to think many of them will help others without a silly Lefty rule about it!

Beamish.. you can't sit through a news brief about baseball?!!

beamish said...

News "brief?" I wish it was brief.

It's bad enough the local Fox affiliate has a segment on the "news" about what's going on with the American Idol show every night. But they do in depth coverage of baseball out the wazoo, and all the other local stations follow suit.

Baseball would probably pack Busch Stadium every day and night during regular season play too if the tickets weren't so expensive for even crappy upperdeck seats.

In depth football coverage picks up around halfway through the NFL season, after baseball's over with.

The baseball season is just too dang long.

I guess it's diehard tradition that they do that, but the unspoken reality is, football is America's past time. Baseball is dead and has been since the 1972 player's strike.

Pris said...

Z, if money were the answer for the less fortunate, why haven't the trillions of dollars spent on welfare for 50 years made a positive difference?

Indeed, it made it worse. Someone else can't supply incentive for an individual, but he can kill it by making poverty tolerable.

Z said...

Pris, WELFARE!!?
I'm talking about CHARITY....charities where those with money know the money's going to the people. Hospitals, Vet's groups, etc...
NO WAY to welfare....

I'm for giving a fishing pole instead of the fish but even the pole costs something!

Pris said...

"in that I hate a thing they love more than their mothers, their dogs, and Jesus Himself."

Beamish, tell me you're kidding, please. If you aren't, this is ridiculous.

beamish said...

Pris,

I wish I could send you a video tape of the local news here for the past few weeks. "Opening day is coming! Repent!"

I exaggerate, but only a little.

Z said...

SO, Beamer, I guess you're suggesting they're a BIT more over the top than most baseball cities!??? (just a guess! :-)

Pris said...

Z, I was referring to what it's already cost to provide money through welfare. Where did it get anyone except the same existence for future generations? I was using this as an example of money not solving these kinds of problems.

Charity is fine, and many players are involved in charity work and expected to participate in their communities. I didn't say the proceeds would go to welfare.

Kershaw, our starting pitcher Thursday, is donating $100.00 for every strikeout he pitches this year. He struck out 9 batters Thursday.

That's the way it should be IMO. It's his choice as it is yours or mine. It shouldn't be a mandate.

I'd prefer this pitcher to do it on his own.

Z said...

Pris,oh,but it does solve problems....it helps dying children, it helps children survive, it helps find cures, it helps with job training, it helps with legitimate child care so parents can work, it helps all sorts of things when it's in the right hands, that's what I mean.
This is charity at its best.
Welfare has done nothing but make people dependent.

I have agreed!!! Yes, the point is it should be given by the sports people on their own...that's why I said capitalism works better with Godliness.......good hearts doing good things with their money.

I suggested the idea of capping salaries as a suggestion but, mostly, as something we should all at least consider. We don't have to cap, I said I agree with that, and I said I agree that it's against the free Market.......but we like to see charity, we like to see people wanting to give, and I hope more do.
That's all!

Pris said...

"Maybe I'd warm up to baseball if they had TV blackout rules like the NFL does. If the home team doesn't sell enough attendance tickets, nobody in the home team's city can watch the game on local TV."

Beamish, we watch baseball most of the time on cable, so we do pay for it. Fortunately it's included in a package deal. Some games are on a local channel but most are on cable.

Btw, during football season there are plenty of games on TV. College and NFL games. Gee whiz, how many hours in the day can you watch football? And you're complaining?

Right now as I type the game's on tv in the living room. I'm listening to it on the radio, in our den.

When something happens I have an 8 second delay between the radio and then the tv. I run in the other room to see what I just heard. Ha,Ha. See? I can multi-task!!

Z said...

Pris, since my dad was an avid sports fan (football, baseball, BASKETBALL especially..), the voices of Chick Hearn and Vin Scully became the soundtrack of my childhood and it was always reassuring to me to hear them even if I wasn't watching the games...which I usually wasn't until I married my Mr Z and he loved basketball (only basketball, thank goodness...and soccer, which I have more appreciation for than most Americans I know because I've seen it played in Europe so much)

I'm not that big a fan of any of them myself (except the Lakers when they're doing so well in the finals) but I do love to hear about who's doing well, etc.
Maybe it's because Beamish wasn't raised in the city he's now living in and hearing all the hoopla
about baseball?

The Vegas Art Guy said...

I prefer to let the market do the work. And after the whole steroid thing I no longer watch baseball. If I want to watch juiced up dudes with sticks I'll watch WWE, at least they're honest about their product. To be honest aside from SF winning the title last year I could not tell you who won the last 10 championships.

Beamish, I stick with NASCAR during the summer and any video game with 'lego' in the title. :-p

Elmers Brother said...

And what of college athletes and the massive amounts the universities make?

Pris said...

Of course Z, I believe in charity too, on a voluntary basis. Mr. Pris and I give to four charities ourselves.

I hope more people will too. I understand charity donations will no longer be deductible on tax returns. I hope those who have always given will continue to.

It shouldn't really matter if it's not deductible, but for some it might. I hope not.

Z said...

Elbro, good point...that's why they fight so hard for certain athletes and let them slide by with grades, etc. Though they've supposedly started to clamp down on that.
They get those best high school athletes for the alumni who want to be proud of their alma mater $$$$

Pris, I think we all give to charities... that's my whole point; charity does GOOD and the money usually does help, welfare does not, as you said.

Pris said...

"Maybe it's because Beamish wasn't raised in the city he's now living in and hearing all the hoopla
about baseball?"

That's a good point Z, When you live in the city or area which has a major league team, you're bound to see more coverage. Especially a large metropolitan area.

When the Lakers are in the playoffs there are cars all over the place with those laker flags hooked onto their car side windows.
I know you know what I'm talking about!

Z said...

Pris, I LOVE that Lakers flag flying thing!

But more than seeing the stuff because you live in a certain city, there's a love for your teams that's inspired by just hearing about them since you were a kid (Beamish hears and sees St Louis stuff now and does NOT seem impressed, right? :-)!!

SPorts WERE my childhood, when Dad was home in the evenings and on wknds....Dad had the car radio on or he'd have the TV and/or radio on in the house near his chair in the den and so those voices of Hearn and Scully were pleasures to me.
Dad would sit in his big chair next to the big TV (golf on), with a small portable TV on a table on his other side (maybe baseball was on) and a radio with something else (probably Lakes) on at times, imagine?
And he'd correct CHICK ! More than once, I've heard Dad say "No, that's not the 20th basket, Chick, that's his 21st basket" and Chick would come on with "actually, It's his 21st basket of the night!"
Dad was astonishingly up on the sports thing....i loved that.

sue said...

Yes.

Mark said...

I love Pro football and go into withdrawal immediately after the last game of the season, and stay depressed until the first exhibition game in late summer.

Having said that, I also have it all in perspective.

My favorite team is the Kansas City Chiefs. If any of the players on the team are actually from KC, I'd be surprised. They have no ties to the city they represent. There is no love for the city. They play for millions of dollars, not the fans. We pay them to represent Kansas City. If they don't believe they are paid enough to represent the City, they will quickly find another city to represent. In KC's case, even the team owners are not native to Kansas City, and have no particular loyalty to the City other than the city gives them a place to play and pays money to keep them there. If the money stopped coming, they would leave KC with no NFL team.

I love watching them play, but, realistically, I have about as much loyalty to the team as they have to me.

As for baseball, I have been a loyal Kansas City baseball fan since I was old enough to know what baseball is, but no more. The players strike in '72 soured me, but not enough to cause me to abandon them. But after KC traded off their best player in the off season (which they seem to make a yearly habit of doing) I've had it with them. When the team management starts to make a sincere effort to field a winning team, I may decide to support them again, but not until then. And only if I don't stay angry.

I don't like the NBA. An NBA Game more resembles a gang fight between the Crips and the Bloods than a sporting event.

College basketball? Love it, and there is good reason to support the team I love. I went to Wichita State University and our men's basketball team just won the NIT championship on Thursday night. Of course, winning the NIT is kind of like kissing your sister, but, since this is the first time any team from Kansas (including perrenial powers KU and K-State) has won an NIT championship, our sister is extremely hot!

Bottom line: If you think the players and the owners make too much money, don't pay any money that would go to supporting them. If enough people did that, the teams would either have to make severe cuts or go out of business. That's how the free market is intended to work.

Pris said...

Z, as you know I was born in Brooklyn and my folks lived a couple of blocks from Ebbets Field. Dad would walk to the stadium.

While I was a mere babe then, the Dodgers were in my DNA. We came to California and a few years later so did the Dodgers! The rest is history. How could I not love 'em? There are some players you never forget. And some plays you never forget.

And Vinnie is still there after all these years. He's 83 and still looks great and sounds the same. He still want's to be part of it. Each year the last few years I wondered if he'd retire, but he came back, as he did this year.

In a way, he is the Dodgers. Players have come and gone, but not Vinnie. Not yet.

Oh, I guess I should stop my reminiscing. I've gone on long enough. It's just such fun.

beamish said...

SO, Beamer, I guess you're suggesting they're a BIT more over the top than most baseball cities!??? (just a guess! :-)

Umm, yep.

Just as there's two bitterly divided political parties in St. Louis (white-skinned Democrats and black-skinned Democrats) there's 4 major religions (Cardinal baseball, Catholicism, Islam, and Lutherans).

I'm sort of a contrarian, see.

beamish said...

At least there's discounts at St. Louis area McDonald's whenever the Cards win, LOL.

Anonymous said...

The only sport I know of where you only get a paycheck if you win is Rodeo in all it's divisions. No contracts, sponsors only pay winners to wear their logos, & when it comes to bullriding you are eligible to die anytime that gate opens. The participating lifetime of a bronc or bull rider isn't a very long one, either.

I also haven't heard of any of them being brought up on rape or assault charges lately.

Silvrlady

Z said...

Beamish "sort of a contrarion?"


NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :-) DUHHHH!

Jen said...

I don't know what Josh Hamilton and Ian Kinsler make each season, but I know that it's fun to watch them beat up the BOSTON RED SOX!

:-)

Z, I see what you're saying, and in theory I agree, but if we go down that road with sports we're sure to do it with many other things.

Z said...

Jen, CONGRATS on the baseball!


I agree with what you say about this situation; i still think it's worthwhile consideration if not implementation.. we have to wish all people who're making over 20 million a year find it in them to share something on their own volition.
happy, I think most do